#124 - Women Need Women with Jennifer Smith

"Women need women." I will never forget when my dear friend Jennifer Smith first shared this idea with me and I have seen evidence of it ever since. On this episode Jennifer shares more about:
- why women need women.
- ways to gather women together.
- how to drop the judgements that keep women apart.
- and the power that comes when women are connected and supported by one another.

https://jamelynstephan.com

https://jamelynstephan.com/meet-with-me/

https://www.instagram.com/jamelyn_stephan_coaching/

jamelyn@jamelynstpehan.com

Transcript

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I'm jamielynn Stephan, and this is what to want at episode number 124 women need women with Jennifer Smith. Welcome to want to want it a podcast for women of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints who are ready to ignite not only their sexual desire, but all of their desires to create a more fulfilling life and marriage. I'm jamielynn Stephan. I'm a certified life coach, a wife, and a mother of seven children. I'm excited to share my personal journey to desire with you and teach you how to desire more as well hello, everybody. Welcome to want to want it today. I am so happy today because I have one of my dearest, dearest, dearest friends and really one of my mentors in my life today to come and talk to us about women needing women. So I want to introduce you to Jennifer Smith. She is really has been one of my dearest friends for over 20 years now. And Nobody, uh, has taught me more about gathering women and the power of women like Jen has. And so I invited her on today to just talk about it with me and maybe help to inspire some of you who feel the need to gather women together. So Jen, just start by telling us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, I'm so happy to be here today. Jamelyn, thank you so much for the invitation. I am, oh gosh, I, you know, my life is, is pretty, pretty basic. I, I'm married to a good man. I have six children. I raised them. I think I homeschooled them for about 18 years of my mothering life and watching them grow up. My oldest is 30. My youngest is 17. And we live in northern Alberta near Edmonton. And we live on an acreage and we just kind of really love acreage life and having lots of projects. And, uh, yeah, I w I work part time, I go to school part time. I just am always. striving to learn and, um, yeah, do new things. And so today's one of those new things. It's on my 100 list from one of your old podcasts. So hilarious. That's awesome. Well, here you go. I can check that off at the end of the day. So that's right. You are now a podcaster. That's awesome. Okay. So Jen, tell me a little bit about just this idea of women needing women. Now, I always am like a little leery when anyone says the word need, because sometimes I feel like it, if someone feels like I don't have women in my life, then they upset them a little bit. But generally, I actually do think that women are meant to have one another. But just tell me a little bit about how you kind of came to this understanding of it, because I'm sure you're the first person who ever really said to me, women just need women. So tell me about it. Well, I'm quoting Marjorie Hinckley there, I, she's the one that said, you know, women need women. Uh, you know, for me, it was more along the lines of, um, just a craving of my own heart, you know, of just feeling lonely. I know that we all feel this way at some point in our lives, you know. And, uh, as a young mom, I thought to myself, how could I be lonely? I have small children around me all the time. End of the day, you know, I have my husband to talk to and just feeling lonely. And I hadn't in my life up to that point had. Super positive experiences with other females. And I know that's really a common story. But you know, of course, at the time you feel like you're the only one. You know, you feel like, I just don't have friends. I don't know why, you know. And you want them and you crave them, but you can't, it's difficult to articulate it, you know. So, um, I can remember, yeah, just being a young mom and, uh, being lonely and being confused about that. Like, how can I be lonely? I'm, I'm, I'm around people all day long, but just the, the need maybe to, uh, to connect with people in my own situation and share stories. Anyways, at the time, um, our ward was doing this experiment, I think it was, uh, making these little groups, you know, of like minded activities. So I, you know, they had like a food storage group and they had a quilting group and they had a book club group. And I thought, Oh, I love reading. I wonder if there's somebody here that loves reading. Um, I was new, you know, new in the ward and, um, you know, signed up for this, this book club. Um, and the person that was in charge of it, she ended up having to back out for some reason. And so they said, Oh, we're not going to do this book club. And I, I just didn't want it to fail. Right. I really wanted this book club to happen. And so I said, well, I'll do it. And I can remember being very scared. You know, it's a very vulnerable feeling to, to just be in charge of something that you volunteered for. Right. Yeah. But the miracle of it was we, you know, I said, Hey, come to my house. We'll have popcorn. Let's talk about, you know, there's about eight women who signed up and let's just talk about what we want to do with this. And like, it's such a nerdy thing to do, read books and talk about it. Why, who wants to do that? You know, but they came over to my house and we ate our popcorn and we just chatted. It was really awkward. We didn't know each other. And it just. Came out who read what and who likes reading and mostly it was just women just wanted to expand their their their knowledge, you know, and I thought okay, how is this gonna go and so That the one brave person in the group said well, I'll go first. And so she hosted it We went to her house, we all read the book, she had a whole bunch of questions, and over time what ended up happening, and I know you know because you were there, um, over time what happened was it stopped being about the book and started being about our own lives. And so we started accidentally just sharing and, um, addressing that vulnerability factor, I guess, and, and it was just a dynamic lightning in a bottle kind of group of women. And I don't, I think that every woman showed up every month. For years. Yeah. And it grew and grew and grew and we had to split it and it just kind of kept going and, and that's the first time in my life I've really caught the vision of how, you know, women have this power to build each other. You know, it's, it's, uh, it's layers of, you know, We relate to each other, we don't feel quite so alone, we learn, you know, we share knowledge. We just suddenly can be way more than we ever could be on our own. And it just was such a revelation to me, you know, in my, in my, in my mid twenties, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think I love what you're saying there because, um, I, I think. That you see this when you gather with women, that there is some kind of almost unexplained power in it that happens with this, with when a group of women get together and. And are supportive and like good to one another. I, you talked about book club and I remember when you guys invited me to come to book club and I was like, I can't read a book in a month. Like that just seemed impossible to me. I just didn't even know. And so just even the fact that I learned that when I could write a read a book in a month and that I. enjoyed reading. I didn't, because I felt like I was a slow reader, I didn't think I really liked to read, but doing that and realizing this is something I didn't even know about myself. And then I was able to kind of develop the skill of reading and then discussing the books. And like you said, then it becomes about people's lives and the insights that you get and just the inspiration of it. It was just, yeah, that, that book club was really my first, um, introduction into a gathering outside of something that was organized by the church or the school. Do you know what I mean? Right. And so it was. It was kind of a, my first experience of kind of choosing to be somewhere and having so many really special, special experiences and really kind of coming away from it changed, like absolutely changed and some of the best friends in my life, right? Yes, 100%. Yes. Just kind of by accident. Mm hmm. Yeah. So sort of. Yeah, go ahead. No, please go ahead. Tell me what you're going to say. Well, being the age, you know, when you start to get that middle age. Uh, you know, that, that, what am I trying to say? Like that milestone, that middle aged milestone, it's, it's really awesome because you can see the last 20 years and how there was a simple little catalyst that became so vital to our lives, you know, um, So, I don't know. You have to be brave and you have to put the possibilities out there because you just never know where it's going to go. And it might not go anywhere, but that's okay. But it might go far and deep and wide. And that's really what we crave in our hearts, right? Yeah. I feel like you have, um, almost like a calling to gather. Would you say that that is true about you? Because I know that, I mean, you got that book club started, um, but I feel like there's been other ways that you have gathered women, some that I've also been able to be involved in, but others that I've just been able to kind of hear about or watch. What, what is it inside of you that kind of drives this for you? Well, that's such a good question because I don't know if that's something that I would have ever really recognized in myself unless you had said it out loud, right? And so maybe that's another benefit of women eating women is, is, you know, many times in my life, someone will say something to me like, wow, Jen, you're really good at this thing. And I'm so surprised, right? I think, really, is that true? Is that true of me? And it really helps me just to be introspective and say, well, I really love this person and I have a lot of admiration for this person. So if they said it. It must be true. And it kind of builds your confidence in a way, you know, so I think in answer to your question, so my first, my first response is really, Oh, I, you know, that, that surprises me a little bit. But, you know, as I think back in my own life, um, I, I think I recognized a need in myself And I couldn't do it by myself. Um, so, you know, a good example is, um, you know, years ago, my little son, my, my little son in grade one, he was having such a hard time in school. And as I was searching for solutions and, and doing kind of the deep work to find the best path for him and his struggle, it ended up being, I needed to homeschool. And I. I didn't want to homeschool and it didn't really feel like that was something in my life plan that I had wanted to do, but, you know, in my mother heart, I knew that that's what he needed and I had to figure this out. And so, you know, I started, I just jumped in, I started homeschooling and it was really hard, but, um, in the process of trying to find what worked for our family. I realized I couldn't really do it by myself, you know, I needed a community and, you know, and it was one of those gathering things where I just sort of put the feelers out and said, Hey, like I've been homeschooling for a year and I've learned all these things, you know, is anybody else feeling kind of a call to bring their kids home and homeschool? And, you know, again, very vulnerable feeling. I remember just kind of being very nervous and shaky, but, you know, putting out the invitation and. When it ended up happening is a group of women came over and I just kind of told them my story about homeschooling and why I felt like I needed to do it. And, and that group resonated with what I said. And then suddenly I had a community of women who also were homeschooling much too, you know, it was a scary thing, but when you have a community and you're sharing it, suddenly. you can be brave. And so I think inside of me, it's, it's always a need, you know, where I realized I really can't do it on my own. And I just wonder if other people are feeling the same way. And so they, you know, I just invite and I've kind of learned to get past that scary vulnerability that you feel, because I've learned that if I'm feeling it, somebody else is feeling it. And if I just put it out there, Women are like, Oh my gosh, you said it. I, I was feeling exactly the same way. And so, and I'm always really grateful for those women who just accept the invitation and they're just like willing to like, Be brave or just, you know, explore some possibilities in themselves and even if it's a short lived thing, it doesn't matter. It benefits you in some way, you know. Yeah, yeah, I, I think I have been a girl who doesn't want to gather. Like I don't want to be the one who's so courageous to step up and say, hey, will you guys do this with me? So I have appreciated people who are gatherers. But I, I have had a time in my life when I did feel really strongly, like this is something that you need to do and you need to invite some people to do it with you. And it went so well. And again, I think because the Lord knows what, what I needed and what they needed, but I have other times when I feel it in my heart and I really push it aside because like you're, it's just, it is so, it feels so vulnerable. Yes. And yet maybe if I could look into the crystal ball and see. Then I would have the courage to step up a little bit and, and yeah, so do you want to just give us some ideas, Jen, maybe things that you've done or things that you've heard of just ways that people could gather, because again, I don't think it has to be gathering 20 women. It can be, but what are, what are some ways that you feel like have been really effective in your life of just gathering women together and allowing women to kind of fill that need of. Yeah, for sure. Well, I mean, I'm just going to share something with you that I recently read in my personal study, you know, general conference was, was recent. And, um, Jeffrey Holland got up and he referenced his, his late wife's talk, um, fulfilling the measure of your creation by Patricia Holland. And so after conference, out of curiosity, I just looked it up and it said old BYU devotional from 1989. But I really felt like Pat Holland was addressing a deep seated need in all of us. You know, every human on the planet, you just wonder, what am I here for, you know, what's, why am I alive? What do I want to be? What do I want to become? And something she said in that talk was, um, she said, how do you fulfill the measure of your creation? You pick up your sickle and you reap, right? Which is a harvesting analogy, right? It's like an old school harvesting analogy. And I'm thinking to myself, what exactly am I reaping? Like what I, like, she doesn't really answer the question. Or like she doesn't, she doesn't quantify her statement. Right. And so I'm thinking about this and I realized just in my own. So one of the things that one of my practices that I just personally have discovered about myself and everybody's different, you know, how you explore, what is it that God is trying to tell you? You know, how is he guiding you in your life? And so I have, um, Something, it's called Morning Pages that I learned, um, what was that book that we read ages ago? Um, the artist, the artist's way. Yeah. Yes. The artist's way. Thank you. By Julia Cameron, Cameron, she introduced this idea of doing morning pages and it's just a stream of consciousness writing. And so you just take three pieces of the paper and you just write whatever comes into your mind. And so what I did was I. Was I took this idea like what am I exactly am I reaping and I did a morning pages on it, you know, and sort of in the way that heaven speaks to us and that in that gentle way I realized what we're reaping is something that's already ripe inside of each individual. It's, it's ready for harvesting. We don't, sometimes we think about fulfilling the measure of our creation as, um, like potential, you know, it's, it's work. You got to get on that treadmill and you got to work, right? But this analogy is, it's different. You're, you're actually pulling out. Of yourself, something that is already there, you don't have to develop it. It's already there. Yeah. And it was just such an eyeopening thing to me. And of course, in conference, you know, uh, David Bednar talked about, um, how important it is that we build our own foundation, like how Jesus Christ is actually not our foundation. We are our own foundation. Of course, we tether to Jesus Christ, which is the bedrock around our foundation, but our house and our foundation is. Uniquely ours. And so, you know, like I'm finding in my middle age, this idea is so compelling. Um, and when I look at myself and when I look at other women, I think to myself, they have something inside of them that is unique and valuable and we need it. Whatever that is, we need it and it needs to come out. And sometimes it doesn't come out if someone tells us about ourselves or it doesn't come out unless we're discussing or talking about it with other women, right? It doesn't come out until we're actually in a group. And, um, and I really do feel like there's this, you know, the war in heaven is still battling down here. You know, the adversary wants to keep us strong. from that divinity. And, um, you know, another, another reference I'm going to quote right now is Terrell and Fiona Gibbons in their, in their recent book, All Things New, they talk about our battle is against sin, but they define sin as, um, woundedness. And, you know, we all, every single one of us have. Have had broken hearts, you know, we know what that feels like to be wounded and we try to protect ourselves through all sorts of ways, you know, there's a million ways that we try to protect ourselves, but those walls we put up, I think sometimes keeps us from our divine selves, you know, what really is trying to come out. But if you find another woman, you who gets you in some way, suddenly it's okay. It's okay to allow that part of yourself to come out that you realize that those protections you've put up, they're no longer serving you. And we need it. We need you out in the world in whatever way that looks like. And it's so important. It's all so important. And yeah, so maybe. As life goes on, you start to feel this calling, you know, to help other women see that they're so valuable and so important in this world. And we're all born to different set of circumstances and um, it just so helps when you have another woman telling you that it's okay, that they understand, that they need you. Yeah. Suddenly you feel like your life has purpose, you know? Yeah. You know, it's funny, Jen, because as I'm talking to you, I just am like, oh my goodness, I've learned so many of my greatest life lessons from you. And Jen and I have a group of women that started when she invited all of us to. On the homeschool journey, and we still meet often and talk and read and share. And we call it our tribe and it's so fantastic. Um, and it's really all thanks to Jen, but. I remember years ago Jen saying to me, if I meet someone that I almost, I don't know if you'll remember this Jen, but she said, if I meet someone that I almost feel repelled by, I have to ask myself why, like why, what is it that maybe I do need from this person that I'm, that I'm resistant to and unwilling to learn? And so, Jen always actually would move towards people instead of away from people. Can you just tell me a little bit about what, what that is all about, Jen? Because it was so inspiring to me to realize like, Oh, this is a me thing. This isn't a them thing. And what is it that maybe is really wonderful about this person that I need to know? Tell me a little bit about that. Oh, goodness. Yeah, that's such a great question. I totally remember that because it was just one of my own deep personal life epiphanies. Um, and, uh, yeah, there's a, there's a member of our tribe. Um, her name is Leslie, and she knows the story. So when she hears this podcast, she won't be mad at me for sharing it. Um, and we laugh about it. We're still such good friends. But I remember when I met Leslie, there's just some people for some reason you just don't like and there's no reason why and I came home that that day after meeting Leslie and I said, Oh, I met this. I said to my husband, I met this girl. I just don't like her. I hope I don't ever have to talk to her very much or something. And my husband said to me, Oh, yeah, that sounds like Your other friend he named a few friends that I had said the same thing about and I'm like what no I didn't say that about those people He's like, yeah, you do you say that you say that about people you end up loving and I'm like, that's that's crazy I don't believe you but I made me think you know, it made me think and I wet I thought Maybe he's right and he's often right about those sorts of things, you know, he has kind of this vision that I lack and he, he, or he picks up patterns that I've missed. So I was going to test this theory, right? And I called Leslie up and I said, Hi, I know you're new in the area. My name is Jen. We met on Sunday. Do you want to come over to my house? And in my mind, I'm testing this theory. Like, I don't really, I feel like there's opposition to her for some reason. I don't know why, but I'm going to test my husband. I'm going to prove him wrong. And, uh, and Leslie was so cute. Like she was, she came, she was peeling into my driveway, like minutes later. Right. And I was like, Oh, that was fast. And she just comes into my door and she opened the door and she said, I am so lonely. I didn't know. It takes me forever to get to meet people. I can't believe you invited me. I'm so grateful and I sat down and we just had a one on one conversation. We let our kids play. We had kids the same age and I just loved her so much and we have been friends the same 20 years that you and I have been friends and she has taught me A million things about myself, something about her personality and we do disagree a lot and sometimes we will, you know, we were at odds with each other like any normal relationship, but every time I just remember so strongly. Um, I remember like this could have been a lost friendship if, if my husband hadn't said something and I didn't want to prove him wrong. I, um, like we do that sometimes, right, in marriage. And I think Leslie is such a gift in my life, right? Like so many other women. So I just started paying attention mostly. I just started paying attention how sometimes there's just some personalities right off the bat. They're not going to mesh. And that's okay. Like we don't have to like every person on the planet. Nobody needs has to like you either. And that's okay. That's just called Earth. That's just called living on this planet. And we all have things to work, but When I meet someone, then I'm automatically, I just don't, person actually probably has value to me and I have value to them. And I want to figure it out. Like it's such a, it's a curiosity quotient, right? I'm so curious about it now I have to find out. And so I'll gravitate toward that person and I'm, I probably annoy them. But I can't help it. You know, I'm like, Hey, do you want to come over? Or what do you like doing? Or I try to find a way to like, spend time with them, because I'm just so curious. And I almost always walk away with some revelation or some epiphany. And they don't always become my best friends, of course, but, but there's some purpose. And we sort of know, like, With our faith tradition and the knowledge that we have of the pre existence and the knowledge that we have of sort of the vastness of all the population on the earth that has been and will be, it's some cosmic miracle that We're actually on the earth at the same time as certain people. Yes. And with, with the 10 billion people that's on this earth, that the dozen people that I know well, we happen to be in the same area at the same time to get to know each other. So even people that we meet on the street randomly, you know, there is an exchange that happens. And. I, I just, it's all important. We all, we rub off on each other, right? So I don't know when I think about going to my church meetings, for example, and I see the women in Relief Society, and I have to say, like, I've never liked Relief Society. I've always struggled to go in and sit down and to feel awkward. And why is that? The only thing I can, I can deduct from that is that the adversary doesn't want us to know how vital we actually are to each other. And so I've sort of just learned to lean into that awkwardness and lean into the discomfort of not feeling like I belong, I guess. And I understand that we're all kind of all feeling that same way, some small way, right? And so just, so just be brave. And be vulnerable and, and strike up a conversation and, you know, that exchange, it's the heavenly gift, you know, from fourth Nephi chapter one, verse three, being a partaker of the heavenly gift is, is that exchange that happens where you're both are elevated. So when you, when you join with other women, like, you know, we don't share labor, labor stories with just anyone, you know, we share labor stories with women because we, the shared experience bonds you together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's really the secret is is driving. It's creating the environment where you can have a shared experience. Yes. Right? But it takes that one person to be brave, to be vulnerable, to, you know, you name it, you can garden together, you can read books together, you can paint together, you can walk together, you can, you know, read conference together. You know, that list can be, it's so extensive, you know, if everybody had a hundred lists and compared it. Probably there's some overlap, so just go do it together as a group, right? But it takes one person to sort of be brave, and then it takes a second and a third and a fourth to be also brave and allow themselves to be invited, right? And I don't know, I mean, I don't do it all the time, but it's just when I feel inspired to. And, you know, often when I'm writing my morning pages, and I don't do it every single day, I just But when I'm writing, I often, um, I'll get a thought in my mind, you know, you shouldn't invite so and so to do this or, or you should, um, stop by at this person's house or you should send a text to that person. And I've just sort of learned. To follow that because I don't necessarily feel like I have a ton of things to offer, but maybe my little personality in this little moment with that person will make a difference and it doesn't, it was small, you know, big things come from small choices, you know, um, So, and the end, Heavenly Father knows that and he always, and he loves us and he knows how we can influence each other. And so you really just try hard to, you know, follow that inner, that inner voice that we have. Um, I'm going to, I'm just. Cause I'm thinking of it, you know, Patricia Holland said this, you know, she's like, number one, it's so important that we listen to that voice within, which is God telling us who we can be. And the second thing is to sort of cherish your own path. It doesn't look the same as everybody's. And that's perfect. That's what we want. We want diversity as much as possible. Just cherish. She says, cherish your course and savor your own distinctiveness. Amen. And then the last one is just free yourself from approval. You don't need anyone's approval. You just need God's. You don't need anyone else's, right? And, and just put yourself out there because, I don't know, just let that miracle unfold. And then, you know, once you kind of create that action item or the catalyst, suddenly, You can step back and just watch it and then you can see how God creates this Dance that is so beautiful to watch it makes life really worth living Honestly, yeah, you know so rich so rich and I as you were talking I was just thinking, you know, I guess sadly and many of us are probably guilty of this It's just we we we don't necessarily appreciate our own You Path or own diversity. And we spend a lot of time judging other women about theirs. Right. And, and I think that also is a tool of the adversary to separate women, to cause division between us, because I, I think there is incredible power when women gather. They're just the confidence that you can gain in talking with another person. And. realizing you're not alone, right? And that you are likable, like all of the positives that come from women coming together. And I just, I guess I would just say as women, we need to start to get each other's back a little more. We need to start to make it our priority to not just, um, not just necessarily gathering, but just like accepting and. Being able to look and, and kind of drop judgment and just love, know that everyone has a good reason for why they're doing what they're doing. And. And I think there would be so much, maybe a little less fear in gathering together and calling women towards us if we could step out of judgment. I don't know. What are your thoughts on that, Jen? It just kind of came to me as we were talking. Yeah, no, it's such a good question because, well, I mean, judgment is just part of life, right? We can't help it. We just do it. But there's, there's a flip side to the coin, right? There's righteous judgment and then there's, you know, There's the other side, right? Righteous judgment is when you give people grace, when you, if someone does something that hurts your feelings or you don't agree with or whatever, you just know without knowing that they're going through something, you know, give them grace. And we, and we do that by walking beside, we don't have to agree. We walked aside. But for me, when I get that negative judgey thing, um, I mean, I have a friend that says, Hey, let's go to the mall and judge people. And we're mostly just, we're mostly just, you know, checking out outfits. And we just laugh. I just laugh when she says that, because when I get that negative judgey feeling, really, It's telling me something about myself, right? And I have to stop. Um, and I have to just. Think about it for a minute and just make sure I do not act on anything negative. I have to really just wonder why am I comparing? And usually it's comparing. Usually I'm thinking, Oh, I'm less than look at that person. She's so beautiful. She's so accomplished. She's so athletic. She's so, Oh, the list is long. Right. And then I think, see, I'm not that I'm not very good. And so I think a protection is to. Well, if we can put them down somehow, then maybe we're elevated. Right. But it doesn't work that way. You just really depress your own self. Right. So, you know, over time, I guess it's the benefit of being middle aged. You just think, you know, I can catch myself when I get that judgy thought and I can turn it inward. And I think, Oh, Oh, right. I let, let me write this down and let me explore some, let me study the gospel about this and let's see how I can improve myself. Right. Um, it's such a killer of relationships when we negatively judge and, and it's a killer of our own divine worth when we think we're less than anyone else. It's just that. Yeah, it's it's a really difficult. Um, it's almost even cognitively dissonant to imagine that everyone has The highest value and I have an equal highly. How do I say this? Like our worth is all 100 percent but because we manifest our worth in different ways We need it all, but I'm not worse or better than anyone else if I shine and we have to just, I don't know, some, sometimes we need permission from other women to just shine. It's okay. You know, and because we feel like, well, if we shine that I don't want anyone else to feel bad and, or, or if I shine, maybe I'll get prideful or maybe if I shine, I'll, you know. I'll forget who I really am or something like that. Right. So it's, it's like this game we play inside of us. I don't know. And I think the adversary, he just loves it. When we beat ourselves up, put ourselves down. Um, Neil A. Maxwell gave a talk called not withstanding our weakness. And he, he said, I read that also recently with you. Right. So, I mean, he said in that self contempt is of the devil. There is none of it in heaven. Right. And, you know, if we want heaven to be here on earth, in our environment, in our homes, self contempt can't be part of it. Yeah. And, and we, and we get that by comparing, so stop comparing, stop judging. It's, it's hard, but we can do it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think just, just the same as maybe you feel repelled by someone because you're like, they're just not my person. I think sometimes we are repelled by someone because we're like, Oh, they're just, I don't know, intimidating or so much better than me or what could I possibly offer them? And, and again, just losing out on those relationships. And, and even though maybe you're kind of place elevating them, it is a judgment that isn't necessarily fair. And, and if it stops you from reaching out and being a friend. Or inviting, right, then I think the adversary wins in those, in those scenarios. Yeah. Yes. And I've come to the conclusion that if, if I can reach out, even when I don't want to and my hand gets slapped away, it's okay. You know, we, we, we get, we're afraid of rejection, right? We don't like it. We've all been rejected at some level in our lives. We want to avoid it at all costs. But rejection doesn't really point to my own, um, person. It points to the person rejecting, right? Like if someone, if someone slaps my hand away, it does hurt. Like there's no doubt about it, but I just think they got to go through what they have to go through. And I, I am glad that I reached out. It's, it's okay that I did that. And I learned something about myself. Also, it builds a lot of resilience to get rejected a lot. Yes, you kind of get you kind of get used to it. And you know, we're sensitive women were sensitive. We don't like it. But usually rejection, they don't usually they don't meet like if I feel rejected, usually it's just my own sensitivity. People don't really intend to. To be rejected, right. But sometimes they do. Sometimes it is really a strong rejection, but I just think, oh, man, I'm sure they're going through something. I'm sure I've done that to people like really unknowingly, right. And usually it's when I'm, you know, in crisis of some sort. So, oh, we just got to give each other so much grace, you know, I don't did I answer your question? Yeah, no, totally. And I feel like Um, you know, Jen has given me grace over the years when I get stressed or feeling overwhelmed. I, I totally pull away from people. And I finally, one day I was like, you're a terrible friend. Just get back with your friends and, and be friendly. And it, you know, it's so funny what our brain does. It kind of looks at these things sometimes as just extra work instead of. The benefit. And then I reenter, I, I come back into this group of women who's never changed, who just take me back in and my soul fills. And I think I'm such a fool because, you know, I pull, I pulled away thinking this was, this was the better thing to do for my sanity. and my time and what I really needed was women. And so, um, yeah, I so appreciate you coming today to Jen, Jen to talk about this. Is there any last words of encouragement you would give to anyone? Well, I would just say like, in response to what you just said, you know, it's okay to turtle. You know, sometimes, sometimes we have to, like just for our own safety, you know, we have to withdraw inward for a time and that's so okay. We just can't stay there like there's no growth, there's no growth. You can't grow. And really, I think the Lord is interested in our growth. We just can grow exponentially with other people. And sometimes we can grow, going inward for a little while and, and just sort of analyzing what, where we are, you know, and then reaching back out again and, or receiving when that person texts you out of the blue, you know, you let respond to it because they might just be following a prompting too. Yeah, I just, you know, I cut ourselves so much slack. That's the only advice I have is like, you're okay. Like whoever's listening to this right now, and I'm saying it to myself and I'm saying it to you, Jamilyn, like we are okay, exactly where we are is exactly where we need to be. And you have said that to me so many times. Um, I can remember, uh, you and I hiking with our mutual friend and I, you know, struggling with a headache. And so I use peppermint oil. But then the sweat like it dripped into my eyes and then suddenly I was blind and I was like, Oh my gosh, the peppermint oils in my eyes and, and I was laying on the trail and you guys were pouring water in my eyes and I remember thinking, why am I with these women? I am. I'm just so hopeless. I can't keep up with them. They'd have long legs, like you're tall. I'm short. I like I'm sweating. I'm dying actually. And they aren't even like breathing hard. I'm sweating into my eyes now I'm blind and now they have to like, carry me up the trail. But I'm thinking what an analogy for life, you know, I think we just take turns carrying each other based on our different strengths and our different abilities, and it's just so worth it. Keep on trying, you know, keep on, find your tribe, find your friends, and you're not alone. Absolutely, you're just not alone. And you're okay exactly where you are. And we need you, you know, we need who you are. It's so important that you connect with God and follow those promptings and explore your own foundation. We just, we just need you. Whatever you have to offer, so vital, so important. I love it. Thank you. Those are the perfect closing words, Jen. Thank you so much for coming today and visiting with me. And I just feel like. always inspired and learning. So everybody now has had an opportunity to take a little of Jen's wisdom into their day. So thank you so much, Jen, and we will see everybody next week. Bye. Thanks for listening today. If you like what you hear on the podcast, and you'd like to learn more, feel free to head over to my website. Jamilin Stephan coaching.com or find me on Instagram or Facebook at Jamileh. step in coaching.