Episode 66: Pritt Stick Themes

Adrian takes the first player token and kicks off 2025 with a new episode all about pasted on themes, when they get in the way, when they don't and our general thoughts about them.

FIRST PLAYER: Adrian
OTHER PLAYERS: Becky, Davey & Rob

In this episode you'll learn:
- that Becky has been playing the game of organising Florida trips
- Davey talks about the new "Duel" in town with Lord of the Rings: Duel for Middle-Earth by Repos Production
- Rob is getting his RPG on with some classic D&D
- Does Adrian get his solo fix in Final Girl by Van Ryder Games?
- all about the groups experiences with themes and whether they help, hinder or whether anyone really cares about theme.

LINKS REFERENCED IN THE SHOW
N/A

EPISODE CHAPTERS
0:00 - TURN 1 - Player Count
1:35 - TURN 2 - Let's Talk About Hex
1:58 - Becky - Organising Disney World Holidays
5:10 - Davey - Lord of the Rings: Duel for Middle-Earth
10:15 - Rob - D&D
14:08 - Adrian - Final Girl
21:32 - TURN 3 - Main Event: Pritt Stick Themes - Is theme important and if so why?
29:47 - The benefits of when theme sticks to mechanics
37:42 - What connects a theme to a game?
49:58 - What doesn't connect themes to games?
1:01:46 - TURN 4 - Receive, Sleeve or Leave
1:10:18 - TURN 5 - Penultimate Turn: What's Coming Up
1:16:38 - TURN 6 - The Final Turn

Chapters

• 0:00 TURN 1 - Player Count
• 1:35 TURN 2 - Let's Talk About Hex
• 1:58 Becky - Organising Disney World Holidays
• 5:10 Davey - Lord of the Rings: Duel for Middle-Earth
• 10:15 Rob - D&D
• 14:08 Adrian - Final Girl
• 21:32 TURN 3 - Main Event: Pritt Stick Themes - Is theme important and if so why?
• 29:47 The benefits of when theme sticks to mechanics
• 37:42 What connects a theme to a game?
• 49:58 What doesn't connect themes to games?
• 1:01:46 TURN 4 - Receive, Sleeve or Leave
• 1:10:18 TURN 5 - Penultimate Turn: What's Coming Up
• 1:16:38 TURN 6 - The Final Turn

Transcript

0:00
[Music]
0:17
hello and welcome to whose turn is it Anyway a podcast all about our gaming group and the board games we play I am your current first player Adrian and in
0:24
this episode we'll be talking about theme and how well it sticks to a game or if it feels pasted on with me today I
0:30
have he's a pro with a prit stick it's Davey hello Devil with a hot glue gun it's Becky hi and he's been eating the
0:37
paste again it's Rob I mean you're not
0:44
wrong it's too moish I can't be mad so before we get into to the the the
0:51
main bit of the episode how are we all doing oh good thank you yeah I'm I'm
0:56
cool you're cool yeah yeah I'm just kind of chill I feel quite then at the minute Happy Days rest of us feel great tired
1:03
tired and great I'm want to try and keep the levels up there for this episode but I'm probably going to go back a shell of
1:10
a of a human being that's fine Rob said earlier he was tired as well I'm tired but I'm good I'm happy so it's good and
1:16
if Dave you do fall asleep I promise I will not shave off your eyebrow it's fine they'll just replace me with AI
1:21
it's what we do now it's true yeah yeah absolutely that previous Christmas episode wasn't actually Paul Grogen it
1:27
was all AI we haven't told you that could you imagine just like oh and we've got Tom vassel next
TURN 2 - Let's Talk About Hex
1:41
week so it's that time where we talk about you and me and all the good things and the bad things that have been as we
1:47
talk about hex oh I've missed that I've missed that I'm so happy you weirdos so
1:54
what have we all been up to what what have we played recently what have we been doing Becky well I haven't really
Becky - Organising Disney World Holidays
2:00
played anything new so I'm not I'm not going to talk about new games today but I have been meticulously organizing our
2:06
forthcoming Disney World holiday very nice which you don't have to meticulously organize but I mean why
2:13
would you not when there's the option and I've got different color pens and I've got you know there's reservations
2:18
left right and center and it's it's good it's going to be good you know you can get that game where you plan your trip to Tokyo what's that visit Japan okay I
2:27
think I let's go Japan should definitely do a Let's Go Disney i' I'd be all over
2:34
that yeah so we have a holiday upcoming me and my lovely husband curlyy and his
2:40
mom we're all going to go and that's going to be great nice when about you go uh middle of January oh nice yeah so as
2:47
this comes out I'm going to be counting down the day yeah nice so it was two years ago you last went about that seber
2:53
23 okay like it was only last year for some reason why well yeah know why I'm
2:58
keeping tracks of your holidays we went two weeks before you we blast you'll love it it's great I know it's great so
3:05
we've got lots of um different restaurants booked because if you don't book them early I mean this is boring
3:10
Disney chat now but if you don't book them early you don't get to go to the really good places so okay most people
3:15
I've sort of met who go regularly do seem to have like a planner put together you got to have a planner with all of
3:21
the rides they're going on and what tickets they've booked for different things and that kind of stuff the ride so much I mean there are ways well like
3:28
I'm not going to bore everyone about but you can't book them in the way that you used to be able to back in the day oh really yeah fast passes are no longer
3:34
a thing guys they split it again now haven't they hav you got like four TI of past now hav you no there's just two
3:40
tiers of past people aren't here for the Disney World chat but I'm you know up to
3:45
my eyeballs in planning in a lovely way so if you try and pull it back to board games is there any you want to take with
3:50
you um we'll always take uh Splendor nice cuz it fits into box but and I need
3:55
to play it to decide I don't like it again and I absolutely will play this game I don't know why got such a B in my Bonnet about it but I just it makes me
4:02
so cross for no reason um we managed to take about 10 different board games last time in quite a small package so you
4:10
know just being careful about kind of stuff that might look like bombs or guns or you know won't take cluster again cuz
4:16
that was all sorts of nonsense or cash for guns yeah not cash for guns yeah so
4:22
um yeah we'll see you know probably a bit of just one although there would be three of us but Americans are very
4:28
friendly I reckon we could get other people around the table if we wanted to nice we took Hogwarts battle last time and that was a that that's a fairly big
4:35
box yeah but you know got plenty of for travel yeah got plenty of you sort of suitcase room be right but surely that's
4:41
less less lightsabers to bring back yeah well you can carry them on the plane
4:46
just on onto it from from Orlando International Airport you are allowed to get on a plane with lightsaber there was
4:52
a kid who got on the plane he had lightsaber in the Thanos Gauntlet nice
4:58
it was like I I I I made a serious Mistake by putting mine in the luggage
5:03
you just wanted to B you wanted to battle him yeah so yeah why what has everyone else been playing give me some
5:08
ideas of what I could take I recently played with Marcus one of our listeners
Davey - Lord of the Rings: Duel for Middle-Earth
5:13
um Lord of the Rings Jewel oh I reckon that might actually come in the suitcase with us yeah yeah so that's good fun um
5:20
like seven wonders Jewel pretty much but with a Lord of the Rings theme and it's got some slightly different mechanics
5:25
with kind of like three different ways to win um y there's basically a take
5:32
over a board like this this little um well yeah yeah it's a board off to the side which a map of Middle Earth isn't
5:38
it yeah um which is all of Middle Earth and yeah you have to have one in each
5:44
area um but and then if someone else puts one out you cancel each other out if they put two out and you had one on
5:50
there they you know You' end up with one so it's very simple there no like combat
5:55
but it's like a little simple area control bit you then you've got the I don't know like the councils I don't
6:01
know or the factions I think they call it the fellowship Victory or something Fellowship Victory which is uh there's a
6:08
green card when you get three of a certain type you can go and get a little
6:13
perk thing that gives you a power um but if you collect each one of those sets um
6:19
which I think is there seven in total six six six if you collect six of those there another winon um and then the
6:26
other one is if you basically get the ring uh if you playing the good guys you get the ring to um M Doom then you win
6:33
or if the nasal catch the hobbits the evil dudes win so yeah it's quite cool
6:39
it's got a little push pull mechanic area control and then set collection and you basically take a card each that's
6:46
your action and build a little Tableau yeah such a good game yeah yes really I
6:51
was very impressed by it actually I for such something that's so simple it's got so like a nice amount of depth while
6:59
playing against each other and um every game we've had has been close there's not been too much of like one person
7:05
running away with it so yeah yeah I think it's a it's a reskin isn't it of Seven Wonders jeel and I hadn't played
7:12
Seven Wonders juel before I played Middle Earth juel and I think they've done a fabulous job of removing points
7:18
and maths and all that lot out of it and still keeping it a close game they've streamlined it haven't they yeah definitely too difficult anyway is it
7:25
not what I remember but it's surprising how for like a like game I found taking
7:30
out that need to kind of do counting sort of stuff it just it's the way science works if it's multipliers and it
7:36
has like a weird grid table with the seven W stuff find science is a bit
7:41
Bonkers with it yeah and if they had like the the grid like mapped out i'
7:47
probably be you'd be able to work out a lot easier but it's not there for that as like easy information so you have to like work it out while you're doing
7:52
everything else sometimes it's a bit too much yeah I just I think they've done a great job of of Everything Is Win or
7:59
loss it's not how many victory points or anything like that and I think they've done a pretty good job of of making that
8:04
a thing I look forward to playing it I know C's already played it and we do own it so I should play it already it's very
8:10
very good yeah yeah it's good have we seen cuz I haven't a a ring Victory no
8:17
no but it's the easiest one to stop other people from winning though I think well this is it is I feel like it's just
8:23
there almost to force you to have to take it if someone's getting close or whatever Oh you mean get the ring to
8:29
Doom victory yeah or the the that was one step off yeah I've been one step off but I've never seen anyone win by
8:35
actually getting the ring to M or the the nasgo catching the hobbits and I
8:41
just want I it feels a little bit like it's there just to balance you away from other strategies kind of force your
8:47
focus to come away from other strategies but it's like a tug-of war thing isn't it basically and if someone ignores it
8:53
then you will win but it's so easily seen yes and you can stop it you kind of
8:59
have to but then that strategy means that it frees the other person up to do something else so yeah yeah uh I do
9:06
think it is as you're saying they to just balance out the rest of it yeah as say I'm intrigued because I just I hadn't seen it and I've played five or
9:13
six games of it now and I just didn't know it was kind of my little meta of of people I was playing but be interesting
9:18
to see the percentage stats of like out of the three win cons which ones the most prevalent and which ones it's going
9:25
to be the ring but what percentage each one of those is if anyone has that data send it to us we would like to know
9:31
maybe it is out there somewhere I always found that the one that snuck up on me was The Fellowship the collecting the
9:37
what was science before the green cards that's the one that sneaks up on me I always forget to watch out for it until
9:43
it's too late and then I'm like oh dang snuck that one past whereas the map is quite obvious whether or not you're
9:48
winning or losing that that was a very like 60s PG swear word oh
9:56
ding trying to remove the explicit tag on our I'm in I'm in work mode so so uh
10:02
yeah I'm trying to fudge yeah it was it was like my boss swears like a sailor so
10:09
it's fine what
10:14
JP nice and what about yourself what have you been up to uh well last night we had a friendly little game of D and D
Rob - D&D
10:20
we did didn't we it was good fun did watching stew like just get so stressed
10:26
over you Min maxing every decision has to be the highlight of the evening also
10:31
I've also got a character that I think cuz he's a little bit out there and I do try and throw in like loads of
10:38
weird puns and euphan isms you do and I think it stresses them out sometimes
10:44
yeah as well the way your mind work is you fire off like five different random things at once now you can calculate
10:52
those five random things other people struggle and your character is a bit out
10:57
there as well so you playing your character is like Davey Amplified I say is it just like a rarified version of
11:04
your own brain already uh no so so fun so I'm playing I'm playing a sh mon like
11:12
um Druid Circle Sports um and basically it's someone that's lived in the forest of his whole life and he's a Wood Elf
11:18
who basically just doesn't know normal social interactions I love those kind of characters yeah and um it's just very
11:25
out there and smells and like no one likes being near him no likes talking to him and he's just a little bit out there
11:32
so so typically any social situation we send him in that's the right thing she's like oh
11:39
i' got to talk to davan character and he's just like just she like have you
11:45
got any inklings like what I'm looking for inklings do you not know any inklings around here and that's how the
11:51
conversation starts that I don't know I don't know what to do with this and it's brilliant Stew's like really good DM as
11:57
well he's fantastic and we're having a lot of fun um I think we might be slightly overpowered at the moment yeah
12:04
I think yeah I think it was just one of those where I was like oh actually these guys are yeah so um but it's been it's
12:10
been it's been a lot of fun to the point where now my daughter wants to play it um and and she's really looking forward
12:16
to play we're going to have a session between Christmas and New Year nice so uh so yeah so she's got her character
12:22
set and and I can I can run a DM campaign where everything doesn't have to be yeah like cuz I'm going to have to
12:29
walk through some situations anyway so it helps me learn how to DM just you can
12:34
fudge everything ultimately like exactly as long as she's having a good time as well she's not looking for a major
12:40
challenge she's just looking for a bit of fun so um so yeah really looking forward to doing that I'm getting some
12:45
some of the old manuals for Christmas nice so um so yeah so we'll we'll do that and run for it so it should be fun
12:53
yeah it's good I I I quite like mocking around with when when I play D and D i quite like mocking around with what
12:58
everyone expect so like I don't know if it's still a thing but like skeletons used to be like basically immune to
13:04
piercing or had like um damage resistance to piercing and I just removed that and then put them as being
13:11
um vulnerable to bludgeoning weapons but everyone's brain is wired to
13:17
know what a skeleton does in D and D so they've all built their characters being like oh we're not taking piercing stuff and it's like it doesn't matter cuz
13:23
these skeletons are not affected but and you can just see there like little brain explode they used to D and stuff and
13:28
that's what as a DM I used to really enjoy doing is just buggering about so I've been maxing a really antia
13:37
class I've got like poisoner on there and chele on my um weapon and basically
13:43
just trying to deal it's only like little increments of extra damage I'm dealing but you get to roll like six
13:49
Dice and it's just fun yeah yeah part of that sentence was like a different language to me I can't even remember
13:55
what the words were now because it was just ironically but I think you enjoy I have played D and D before I have and it
14:01
was fun I did enjoy it it's just nonsense my wife comes in and just looks at us and what are you lot talking about
Adrian - Final Girl
14:08
but it's fun so Adrian what have you been up to I have been playing final girl so I as people know I don't really
14:16
do solo games it's not it's not my thing but final girl has been kind of calling to me and I kind of
14:24
wanted to give it a go so picked it up at gridon um from games law because I had a little stand there
14:30
and I suppose I'm going to fall like front load this slightly with what I was
14:35
looking for was a small game that I could pack up and I could put on like a a small hotel table or something that so
14:42
I was looking for not very like not like a like a train table but slightly bigger
14:47
than that that I could put a game on or whatever and and just play a game when I'm staying at hotels or whatever this is much bigger than that
14:55
so final girl you have to buy a COR box which is basically the components and
15:01
the rule book and it has no bad guy it has no map it doesn't actually have any of the final girls in it they all come
15:07
in like these episodes or what I can't what they call it but I think they call it feature films or something that so you have to then buy another box and
15:14
there's like 10 I think at the moment available and in the other box you'll get two final girls um the map and the
15:23
bad guy the the serial killer sort of one so I picked up the there's a combo box where you get the core box and happy
15:30
trails I think it is which is a campsite with a guy with a big Axe and a p mask
15:36
on like chasing people around a a camp Forest sort of thing I was surprised by how little there actually is to the the
15:42
final girl is just a card that has spaces to put victims that you rescue on one side and then when you do that you
15:48
flip it over and it's got another Ru on the other side and that is all there is to the final so you collect all these different final girls with the different packs but actually they're very simple
15:55
what you then have is a a deck of zero cost cards card s basically if you play them you discard
16:02
them you then can't buy them back that turn you can buy them back next turn for free and you have a like a an array of
16:08
cards and this is where the the the sort of space starts to get a bit out of control is you kind of need like 10
16:13
stacks of cards so that that a shop that you can buy cards from that allow you to
16:19
you're basically going to walk around the map you're going to attack the killer you're going to search for items
16:27
and you're going to try and reduce the horror in the area which allows you to roll more Dice and you play a card you
16:32
roll the dice and however many successes you get you get that level so if you're walking for instance and you roll two
16:38
successes you get to move two spaces and I think it doesn't cost you any time if you roll one you get to move one but it
16:43
costs you time if you roll zero you get to move one but it costs you two time or something along those lines so it's just
16:49
there's a quite a bit of Randomness in the in the dice roll but I didn't actually find that too much of a problem and the game is won by either you
16:56
killing the serial killer or the serial killer killing you and you're going to try and rescue some victims and they're
17:01
going to try and kill victims if you rescue victims it makes you more powerful if they kill some victims which are just sort of porns sit around the
17:07
map and move away from him as best as possible if he kills someone um if they
17:14
if he kills people he gets stronger so he moves further and hits harder and all that kind of stuff so you're kind of trying to save as many victims and
17:19
search for like there was a speedboat key and I got a bear trap and stuff I could lay down so when he walked into
17:25
the space he took damage all of which was actually pretty good it's fairly simple but
17:31
it's it felt thematic I could absolutely see that if I bought a different feature fil like the two I played the both final
17:36
girls and one was a bit more Hitt and the other one was a bit more survivable and I'm sure that as they go on you'll
17:42
get different feels because every time you put a victim that you save you put it on space on your card and when you
17:48
filled up your card it's like a coffee stamp then you get to turn it over and get all the the really good stuff but as
17:53
you put it on it'll say oh now you get two extra time or you reduce Horror by one as you put fill up that sort of work
17:58
placement spot and it was enjoyable I'm not entirely
18:06
sold on it yet but I think is it solo only yeah SOLO only and I think one of the biggest things for me is the fact
18:12
that I I wanted it to be this smaller space but the boxes are maybe
18:20
A5 um you flip out one side of the box and it's your map and then the other side of the box and their magnetic is
18:26
the killer so you can kind of swap them over and them all into a box so if you want one killer like a completely
18:31
different killer from a different pack you can swap them over and then you just move the deck like there's a little
18:36
insert that has all of their deck and that of cards and that in um and you can kind of swap all of that over so you've
18:43
got that then you've got in the core box is your little Player thing that's got the horror track and like your rescued
18:49
victims and items that you're holding and stuff like that around it then you've got this shop of cards then
18:54
you've got three decks three location decks an event deck a setup deck it's
19:01
escalating here yeah and it's just like it just it as I was putting it out I was like oh this is going to be the size of
19:06
like four four bits of A5 kind of pushed together which it kind of is and then you've got all these cards like littered
19:13
around it and it just kind of what about if you had an ironing board in your hotel room oh possibly I'm not saying
19:20
it's like it's not overwhelming it's smaller than a standard board game if you were playing a solo standard board game I'd say it's a smaller footprint
19:25
than that but that was not M that's not why I bought it again I didn't do as much research as I probably did like
19:31
would do I've got a thing about I don't like horror films I don't like horror video games but I like the idea of
19:36
horror stuff so a board game does not scare me luckily um so a board game doesn't
19:44
scare me in that sense so I can sort of get my horror theme in Via board games so that combined with the idea that it
19:50
was a sort of smaller solo game was what sold me and it's good I've enjoyed the
19:56
mechanics I can absolutely see if you're a solo gamer you'd probably get a lot of value out of this this was more of like
20:01
a backup thing and and again I wanted that smaller table presence um and it's
20:07
not quite that so I'm still to make up on my mind on sort of whether I'm buying more or selling it on or whatever I'm I
20:13
think for you like space horror then do you like like alien and stuff or no the Alien films are fine they're not really
20:19
horror no I would say but they Verge on when was the last time you watched one
20:25
what alien the F alien oh yeah the first one um he does Verge on horor kind of
20:30
the first one's fine yeah the first the problem with the first one now is that everything looks so old that it's not
20:36
scary anymore I don't know I watched it in lockdown and I was like oh I don't like this I tell you alen Romulus was
20:43
actually really good I don't I can't watch them anymore I tell you what I did uh [ __ ] my pants over was alien
20:50
isolation I got literally there were like the little jump scares you expecting like oh this is going to come out of it and it turns out to be the cat
20:56
or whatever and I was like this is going to be the cat oh it's it's the cat cool just stay here for a second have
21:02
you seen have you seen the video of the kid who died cuz his mom shouted and the dinner was ready and it picks up sounds
21:09
through the mic oh no yeah so if you've got a headset on with a microphone oh yes sorry when you said the kid died I
21:15
was like what kind of video is this on youtubeer no children were har a child was playing not a child a
21:22
teenager was playing alien isolation his mom shouted that his tea was ready the alien heard it through the microphone
21:29
and kman ate [Laughter] [Music]
TURN 3 - Main Event: Pritt Stick Themes - Is theme important and if so why?
21:40
him onto our main event this time we will be talking about theme and how useful it is in sticking to mechanics
21:47
and mechanisms and how it makes a board game or breaks a board game previously we've talked about which themes do we
21:53
like and why do we like them this is much more about how does a theme feel like a a theme that fits the board game
21:59
so I suppose the first question is is that is theme important to us and if so
22:06
why it m it varies theme if it's a good game and the theme doesn't really fit I
22:12
could let it slide it doesn't matter um whereas I think a good theme can't carry
22:18
a bad game I would agree with that I'd agree but you can have a really cool theme that you really like um so the
22:25
botanist I think is a good one where they said everyone's like like it looks really cool it's all the Victorian style
22:32
um uh Botanical flower yeah Botanical flowers and um font but apparently the
22:39
game's a little bit Bland I'm sorry if you like it I think it's quite an easy game um Stu was talking about actually because he's got it and I I sound I kind
22:46
of was interested after he was talking about it but it was that because the theme kind of was like oh I'd like to see that I like the theme I think it is
22:53
and I keep seeing online people who have picked it up recently and it started since after now it's been been out a
22:58
little bit I think it's it's waiting or it score has kind of dropped with everyone because they've just started to
23:05
feel like actually there's not much depth here but the theme is really cool so for me I that is it is it does kind
23:13
of matter but it doesn't matter so much as to I won't play a game realized as as
23:19
the beige Cube Pusher of the group that doesn't kind of I don't care what the theme is 90% of the time I can be sold
23:25
on a theme so if like like final go we just talking about you know the theme that sold me a bit more on the game to
23:31
try it but that theme won't carry the game as you were saying like it it just it needs to be good mechanically behind
23:38
the theme as well but if a theme and mechanics are good versus similar mechanics with not a great theme I will
23:44
always go for the theme the one with the better theme sort of thing what about what about the rest you a theme is a
23:50
selling point C do you know I mean for for me I've backed three things on
23:55
Kickstarter one of them was The Witcher which I was like yep and the other one was is Zelda Scrolls like to be honest I
24:02
doubt I would have very much looked at those sort of games until it was already
24:07
at Market the fact that I'd seen an advert for a witch at the ball game instantly I'm just yeah shut up and take
24:13
my money and the same and the same with Elder Scrolls see Elder Scrolls the ball
24:18
game absolutely I'm in 100% so I think for me it's a it's an easy way of
24:24
generating hype yep and like I said sometimes that hype is you know is
24:30
warranted and sometimes it's not you know the H like you said a hype will get you interest in a game and willing to
24:36
play it it is a good point I think slay the Spire sat in my M Kickstarter basket
24:42
for ages and then I was like oh no I can't justify it every time every time I see it I'm like I want that game so bad
24:47
yeah but this is before it had even been released and I but I was just like oh no I I stopped myself cuz I was like I
24:53
can't buy it just because it's a theme cuz it looks like it just be exactly like the computer game spoiler I've now
24:58
got the game yeah because I enjoyed it that much when I actually played it but yeah it is what something to pick that
25:05
is an interesting one so Curley's played slay the spire on the computer forever like so many hours I don't even want to
25:12
think about it and he didn't buy that game for quite a little while I'm wondering and I've not asked him this
25:18
cuz it hadn't occurred me till now maybe he was scared of not liking it so when he bought Heroes of Might and Magic he
25:25
went he was so excited about that we saw it in I think one of the first um UK G
25:32
we went to the c garden one wasn't it alip P maybe it was May it was so he saw it and he was
25:39
just like cuz he has played hours and hours and hours of Heroes and Might and Magic and he since sold that game he
25:46
liked it the game was fine but it clearly didn't um hit the spot hit the
25:53
spot evoke what he was hoping it would uh I think the setup and the tear down was just too monumentally much of a pain
26:00
in the ass for it to carry the game so maybe that's what kind of made him not
26:06
jump on cloud cloud Spire oh sorry curly I know you didn't buy Cloud Spire whoa
26:11
slay the Spire because because he yeah maybe he was worried it was going to be a bit of a let down I think when I saw
26:18
the game I was like oh I don't know about that cuz I've got it on my phone like it's a great game this was my point
26:25
it's a great game but then when I saw you could play a two player I saw I saw a couple playing at gcon and I said like
26:30
please tell me this is bad cuz I don't want to like I don't want to have to buy it because it's good and he was like I'm
26:36
really sorry but it's really good damn it's better than the computer game he said it's really good I like oh no I'm
26:42
going to have to buy it at some point so um cly does love it but yeah I think it's interesting that yeah a theme can
26:49
make a game worse because you're so invested in it and then it doesn't maybe
26:54
do what you think yeah so you can kind of feel let down I think where I stand with theme the kind of person I am I
27:00
would assume is super important but I don't I don't know if it is one of my favorite guy I love terraforming Mars
27:06
but am I interested in Mars no couldn't give a [ __ ] but that game's great because the game is good I guess you
27:12
could be talking about I don't know developing anything and it's fine but if you say compare agrica and cavera cavera
27:22
wins hand down for me because of the theme I'm far I can for some B bizarre
27:27
reason I can sort of get my mind more into a dwarf in a cave than I can an actual legit um human yeah human I don't
27:35
know was it Roman farmer whatever whatever the time frame is whatever that doesn't it's like can't relate to that
27:40
but a little a little dwarf in a cave yeah yeah I can totally get that yeah yeah sure sure but that so that is pure
27:47
theme isn't it really because the game is exactly the same guess for me it's franchises yeah
27:52
in the theming yeah I really thought of it that way before you you were talking and I was thinking there are several
27:59
companies at least one of which is not here anymore that have made a lot of
28:04
money off of selling IPS with average mechanics behind it but that's a whole different story I think for different
28:10
like I like Gears of War where um I saw Mark playing it um gcon I was like what's it like instantly I was like yep
28:17
he says 25 quid I was like done I literally bought it there and then any anything mark from Ninja GE games tends
28:22
to recommend that I end up buying so um go man crush he's are we similar tase in
28:29
games not just very similar tast a horrible noise never ever make that noise again
28:37
it's even worse when it's in your ear whatever that's s a table move so
28:43
yeah for me it's more franchises than kind of themes but yeah terraforms is a
28:49
strange one though because I think that's the first game that actually made me go yeah theme doesn't matter because
28:55
I remember looking at I need didn't tell I need canceled because I was went I keep looking at it I think it just looks so it looks so [ __ ] and then I turned up
29:02
and I played it and I was oh this is actually really good y so it is one of those compare it to like everell so that
29:08
should tick every one of my boxes and I do like it have I got everell out onto the table in the last 18 months no I
29:16
don't I can't remember the last time I played it when when we get on to when theme doesn't work remind me about everel because there's the there's a
29:22
very I've got a very sticking point about everel and its theme but anyway a tree no
29:28
so yeah that that that should be really good like I should play that every week because it's cute furry animals it's got
29:34
a lovely lovely Tree in it that is lovely and I don't care what anyone else says and the everything's
29:42
tactile but but I don't yeah it's fair enough so what are the benefits When a
The benefits of when theme sticks to mechanics
29:49
theme sticks to the mechanics so when the theme and mechanics line up and it sticks together what's the benefits of
29:55
that why is that a good thing immersion Nemesis is one that does it I think
30:01
without its theme it would be a much worse game and I probably wouldn't have played it as many times as I did I think
30:06
I'm done with it but I wouldn't have played it as much as I did without that theme cuz you feel mer and there's a
30:13
story afterwards yes yeah I think story is a key thing right it's a story if a
30:19
theme sticks well it tells a story as it and I think telling a story also makes the theme stick I think it's
30:25
a bit of a two-way thing if you've got a good story narrative or when you play a character it feels like the character
30:31
you know it makes the theme stick whether or not mechanically the game is good if it feels inside the game like
30:37
the character you think you should be when a science does sciency stuff and a soldier does soldiery stuff then well
30:44
what well kills things okay when they do just made me chuckle the way you said it I thought that was great running jumping
30:49
climbing trees yeah exactly when they do all those things correctly like and it fits that theme
30:54
that you were expecting it works right they build on each other they kind of loop endless like infinite Loop of of of
31:01
building that together one one of the things I was thinking of was that I think if a theme and mechanics fit
31:09
together well teaching a game becomes much easier I was just about to say I find it a lot easier learning a game or
31:15
remembering what I should be doing next or figuring out how this works if the theme and the mechanics kind of merge
31:22
together and it it works like it you think it should that makes it far easier for me to get the point of it or
31:28
remember it or know what I should do next or something like that yeah cuz board games are abstracted to some
31:33
extent varying degrees and the closer you can make it so you're like well first of all we're going to make the
31:41
chocolate then we're going to wrap the chocolate then we're going to sell the chocolate you can kind of go okay I know what I know what I've got to do right
31:47
like how you do that and what you've got to do to get that but at least you kind of get the flow of the game or can sort of understand what parts fit where where
31:55
is like I'm I'm going to rag on weather machine here a little bit like that is one that that doesn't naturally make
32:01
sense from a theme like it does but it's really loosely held together and so it
32:07
kind of struggles I feel in that and that's why I think a lot of people bounced off it was because it was harder to teach because there's no natural it
32:13
was exactly that but the fact that you would have to make the weather worse to
32:19
then learn about the weather to then publish a book it kind of just never seem to fit together right does it yeah
32:24
whereas the actual game I love but that bit of it is just you just like well this is this is [ __ ]
32:30
yeah but the rest of it it works and it's it's a great game in that sense but
32:36
yeah I think if a game's abstract like take something like a all where you are just putting tiles in a line like does
32:42
it matter they're Portuguese tiles no does it matter that you can only pick the same color out of the thing and then
32:47
will the rest drop on the floor no that no that's not I'm sure the life of a
32:52
Portuguese Tyler but what do I know OCD Portuguese Tyler maybe maybe I can only
32:57
touched the blue ones today but yeah I mean that that game is so simple it it sort of doesn't matter what the theme is
33:04
so maybe maybe theme is more relevant when something is a little bit more complex because that could be about
33:10
anything for example they've made the same game with chocolate which is what made me think of it like it doesn't have to be anything no and I think I think
33:17
you can do that with a lot of games even the ones where the theme sticks pretty well I was thinking about cban the other day like which is car manufacturing and
33:24
and it the reason why I think that works as a game is it is it does that thing of you need to research the parts you need to build the cars you need to kind of
33:31
test them and all this kind of stuff you could probably do that with a load of anything that's got a kind of manufacturing process could be Santa's
33:38
Toy Shop right and 90% of it would make sense because it's just about a conveyor belt and all that kind of stuff so you
33:44
can always rethe things but certainly if they get it right if they get the theme right it just helps the game Flow and as
33:51
you say your memory of the game Canan theme excit you does it Adrian yeah a little bit does it yeah why not so
33:57
Strangely I was thinking civil so civil theme is you play basically play like a
34:06
a God I guess or some no it's going to be like your Advanced
34:11
um civilization um and you're trying to create another civilization and you've
34:17
got to basically put it through all these pitfalls and then you've got to pass your your course or your test and
34:22
when you first play you just think oh yeah Euro you've got some moving bits but the more we've played it and we've started saying what our cards are and
34:29
like we I've given my Civ I've given my um civilization horns or I've given them
34:34
I've started now they're doing rituals and then you get some quite funny stories that come out of how you're
34:39
making points so yeah I was just like some Colt who was just doing rituals the
34:45
whole time whereas Marcus was then basically leading his civilization out
34:50
to the Wild and then culling them out to get points cuz that was one of the ones to weaken them and then just kill them
34:55
off to get points and that kind of built its own little theme and that was actually quite fun when we were playing
35:01
cuz that kind of Incorporated itself in the game normally I wouldn't get that from a Euro so I did find that interesting nice I think like as well
35:09
the the variations of games that are out there now it's almost like oh do you
35:15
know what I really feel like reading a thriller you I mean it's like a different book a different movie a different you've got so many options
35:22
like you said I want a horror but I don't want a horror a final girl fits well I want time traveling like um like
35:30
like you know civil type game but I you know I don't want the complexity of it so I'll play something
35:37
like Imperium yeah that's got a Time progression you know civilization
35:42
growing element that isn't like you know as complex as civui I think it's it's
35:48
kind of whatever flavor you're in you know what whatever pack you know whatever flavor of crisps you want the
35:54
options now are there because I say game design game development has come so far
36:01
that it's kind of what you're in the mood for and and and then that a good theme or a good you know we will will
36:08
kind of draw you towards that product I think some of it's out necessity as well because people don't you just say board
36:14
games were Necessities no of the fact that we've got so many themes now because they probably don't want to go
36:20
we want to make another theme about this and there's a million zombie games you know or like a million of these so
36:26
people have had to be more creative with finding a theme and standing out in the crowd at this point isn't it that's what
36:31
it is is about luring in a different audience to the same type of game quite often I'm just thinking of say Lords of
36:38
water deep that the theme of that doesn't matter at all it's orange cubes white cubes black cubes purple cubes it
36:45
doesn't matter at all so maybe I don't really care about themes maybe I just care about do I understand this mechanic
36:50
do I know what I need to do okay how was um wingspan sold to you um yeah early on
36:56
cuz it's got pretty birds on it absolutely would I have played it if it hadn't I might have done I might have
37:02
done it but you know like did I buy worms ban because it's got dragons in it yeah I did but actually it's so not
37:09
about the I mean maybe that's just the way I look at the games it's not about the dragons and yeah the pictures are cute but I don't care it doesn't matter
37:17
the actual content of the game is better than wingspan in my opinion I'm sorry for people who disagree well no I'm not
37:22
sorry if people disagree that's my opinion whatever but don't at me cuz yeah that's fine
37:28
but I I think the theme yeah the theme is no the theme is not important with that it's that game is better I'm not
37:35
going to go and play wingspan just cuz I want a bird game CU I don't know that I'm is it easier to sell to somebody else to play it may yeah I think it is
What connects a theme to a game?
37:42
so we talked a little bit about it there but what is it that connects a theme to a game what what intrinsically inside
37:48
the game makes the theme stick better so we've talked a little bit about you know if you've got asymmetric characters or powers that makes it feel right if
37:54
there's a story built into it that can help connect the two is there anything else that connects a theme to a to a
38:01
game I guess if it's like something that's transactional like Swap this thing for that thing there needs to be a
38:07
point of Commerce like you can't just there needs to be a point why you'd swap wood for coal or I I don't know you need
38:13
to be building something there needs to be some semblance of logic to it if
38:18
wiing you like you couldn't just say we live in a world now where you swap this for that like grounding it to reality
38:24
yeah well it doesn't have to be reality you know I think I think it Mak so it makes sense so there's some sort of you
38:32
can see why that happens and yeah so logic is the probably the purpose is it
38:37
a level of expectation as well in what way that stuff works how you how you
38:44
expect it to work do you know what I mean if I cast a fireball in a Dungeon Crawler I expect something to catch on
38:50
fire do you know like like you know a equals B right and I think it goes both
38:57
both ways because when you expect a game to be one thing and it turns out to be another thing yeah sometimes you're like
39:04
I didn't expect that and I really enjoyed it sometimes you're like oh it wasn't what I was hoping
39:10
for Heroes and my magic with curly probably exactly yeah something along like it's just it the theme is there and
39:17
it's but it doesn't quite do what I expect it to do and sometimes like I say sometimes that's an enjoyable experience
39:23
and other times it feels like bit of a let down yeah if if you did a fireball and it poison damage and then you did
39:28
I'm going to call it Mel's massive marrow but it's Mel's acid arrow and that did fire damage you'd be like
39:35
what's going on it's clearly called an asset it should do poison damage this is clear so even symbols can sometimes put
39:42
me off within the theme of that when when you someone tries to use a symbol that's everywhere else is used for one
39:48
thing like fire for in there they say Gloom Haven with fire with a wound I
39:53
think that was fire they used for a wound before and you think fire for a it had like a fire icon and then I think
39:59
that was a wound or something orever and they called it a blood drop or no not a blood blood drop was something else
40:05
bleeding bleeding yeah but and then the fire one was they called wound I think I
40:11
might be wrong but I do remember there was a game where they I just looked at and think why why isn't that just
40:17
something else that every you you're you're used to and that kind of th throws you out of the theme a little bit
40:24
in that sense as well yeah I totally agree just just simple as you say just
40:29
text on cards can do it as well if something's called something weird and out there on a card even that can kind
40:35
of oh well that's a bit weird yeah um sometimes though you get a game that has
40:40
the correct theming that you really enjoy and it bolts on something else that you really enjoy like Nemesis yeah
40:47
I know we've spoken about Nemesis but it's a good Sci-Fi game it's a good storytelling game but it's also a really
40:52
good backstabbing game it's true You Know It theme is one point and it Blends
40:59
together a lot of elements that necessarily you don't get in those sort of games do what I mean so it kind of
41:06
enhances the experience by having a theme that maybe you didn't expect like
41:11
originally you didn't expect how good that theme would be yeah yeah and it's strangely you're making me think of KET
41:18
so KT's like a um area control dudes on a map kind of G building pyramids all
41:23
that kind of stuff but there's Gods Egyptian gods pretty sure gods and then
41:29
randomly they were like here's a kickstar expansion for cthulu and the in
41:34
the background like it was so conflicting so many people were like this is a great idea and then like the other half were like what have you doing
41:40
what are you doing putting cthulu in my Egyptian gods sort of thing and it was it was really separating but apparently
41:46
the expansion isn't up to much either so it's one of those it's just like I don't think the theme on that mattered it's
41:51
just interesting that it was like here's a here's an addition to a theme that's not part of the original theme or like
41:59
not necessarily IP or such but you know you don't expect cthulu turning up in your Egyptian themed game so when the
42:06
expansion came out for it it was a bit like this is Odd as a choice cool is there anything else we
42:11
think I'm just thinking of makes some stick together games like um goong yep
42:17
so the artwork's very beautiful it's really nice and you spend a lot of time doing lots of other things but if you
42:23
don't get your little character to see the emperor it doesn't matter M how many points you've got you're not going to
42:29
win from start that kind of annoyed me but it makes total sense if you can't get yourself in front of the person that
42:36
rules the world according to you doesn't matter how many points you've got you're not going to get you know you've not got
42:42
favor that's it end the story it's true but it's weird because I think that's the only part of the game that has a
42:47
theme the rest is very much changed this Cube into that go along this track and
42:52
get some bonuses go along that track get some like the rest of it didn't feel very thematic like the the general look
42:59
and that I I I enjoyed and kind of what I was doing mechanically but only that Central bit of walking up to the emperor
43:06
oh I don't know I I felt really differently about it so the when the bit that didn't make much sense to me for a little while was like the ctis anra so
43:12
the kind of whispering Secrets getting kind of I don't know not necessarily favor I suppose is what they're calling
43:18
it but then you can cash that in for something else and that that made total sense to me it's like how many people have you sort whispered in the ear of or
43:24
gotten gotten the ear of yeah and can lots of other stuff because actually other than that is pointless but
43:29
actually that can break ties or which is exactly like I don't like the real world in Ancient China cuz I obvious I
43:35
obviously know whatever but it's yeah that is how the world Works isn't it you
43:41
swap that present for a better one or a crapper one build gives you kind of clout with someone and actually the
43:47
little ctis that's Whispering their ear cuz they said your name nicely yeah you're in favor now and that makes total
43:52
sense to me yeah I say different CU like the dice thing is is not itic in any way
43:57
I didn't feel like you talking about the presence upgrading it's just numbers just this number's higher than this number yeah I don't know but the dies at
44:04
the top when you're trying to get number sixes or whatever which happens to be I don't know whatever it is in
44:10
the instrument whatever I don't know that kind of makes sense to me like that's what's in favor at the minute it
44:16
makes no sense but everybody likes but like memes that go around like they don't make any sense or anything
44:21
connected but at the minute that's really inir be like a cool kid in is not the word that Co kid use but you know
44:28
that's I about to say on fleek but that's even worse than in isn't it whatever it is that's the the the thing
44:34
of the moment Trend yeah Zeitgeist there we go we'll stick with that zist it
44:39
doesn't matter it actually doesn't make any difference and it won't be the same tomorrow but today that's really cool so
44:45
I I don't know it all worked for me yeah and hence I was able to kind of do I win and when I play it no but I totally
44:52
understand what what I'm meant to be doing yeah so from that I feel feel like
44:57
maybe you don't need all of those bits anyway so that doesn't have a story that's just going to be you're doing
45:03
this so it's going to be like components artwork those are going to glue the theme on so doesn't necessarily need all
45:11
of these bits but if it's got a strong
45:16
um backing of each uh so if you've got real nice artwork that goes of it
45:22
sometimes that's enough yep um if you got really good components sometimes that's enough to put the you know glue
45:28
the theme onto it um so it is interesting because I've never thought
45:33
about it before because gong really for me Becky I'm I'm I'm in agreement there in the fact that it does kind of feel
45:40
thematic in what he's trying to do not necessarily what we're doing but yeah
45:46
the mechanics of swapping this for that isn't is nothing to do with China really but it works in my brain yeah the story
45:53
like the line the story line in in air or the yeah the theme behind it works
46:00
for it and this is the reason why you're doing this this is this but white Cal mechanics don't but yeah white has all
46:07
same vague theme same you know artwork's very pretty yeah I had the same feelings about both thematically I feel like
46:13
they're both doing exactly the same thing which is that I am swapping things for other things to get things to
46:20
but but it is but the the White Castle goong I've put lacosa on my list a lot
46:26
of those kind of Euro games for me do not feel thematic for the most part there might be one little bit that calls
46:32
out as thematic but the rest of the game doesn't sort of thing it's so hard to tack it onto a Euro you as the player I
46:40
feel like you have to do more of the work for the theme than sometimes the board game so like while you're teaching
46:46
people the game you go you're doing this because of this and then you're doing this because of this and then that helps
46:52
tack the theme on and sometimes it will say that in the rules and then it's up to the person teaching the game to
46:58
sometimes push that and that's a weird that's another weird occurrence I guess with within the theme itself sometimes
47:04
it's up to the person teaching the game just yeah I think there is a little bit on that and it I think for euros quite
47:11
often you're looking at are you doing like a construction line because that's quite a common theme are you doing
47:16
trading are you doing tile placement which means you're doing building whatever kind of part of that you're
47:22
doing the theme has to tie at least roughly to that and then depending upon
47:27
how the other bits stick to that theme that you've decided on then decides whether or not it feels pasted on or not
47:33
like you have to have a rough there's no point having a construction line and then it being about I don't know trading
47:40
or something like you know the theme being about trading CU it's not going to work for you like this idea of of kind of unless you're trading up or something
47:47
that it's generally not going to work so you need that overall theme it's like oh this is an area control so it can be about can be about war or territory or
47:54
whatever after that then it's all the side bits that then pull in decide whether or not it feels pasted or or not
48:01
which is I think where what I kind of meant with grounded with reality in some sense because as you're saying if you
48:07
detach that from what everyone knows y it doesn't feel right no so sometimes
48:13
you kind of do need that that grounding yeah um or the you know the uh tether
48:21
yeah but other times you can use it to explain a game very easily yeah what is
48:26
kitos mhm it's a race yeah and the map is a track like you know I find instantly oh
48:32
I get it I get what I'm doing got to go around here I've got to go I've got to get around there first job done that
48:38
that that's easy you know it's easy to understand but also theming in a narrative game if the theme
48:45
is on point along with the narrative I'm thinking Arkham Horror yeah like just fantastically if that if you know if you
48:52
if you got a laser pistol turn up in that game you'd be like what the [ __ ] like it would really like not ruin the
48:58
game but it' be like I'm not putting that in again yeah see what I mean so so yeah for a story driven game The
49:04
Narrative like Mansions yeah yeah it's It just fits and it enhances the game
49:09
it's the you know it just makes it a little bit better I do think that sort of traditional Dungeon Crawlers or story
49:16
games narrative games I think they're the easiest to stick the theme to the to the mechanisms because you can just tell
49:22
us even if the the mechanisms don't quite line up you can just tell the story make the characters out a little
49:28
bit more where the closer you get towards Theo end the hard it is to% because effectively like the placement
49:35
game like how how can the theme kind of like you said it has to relate to what you're doing and effectively you're
49:41
putting somebody on a board yeah you know what I mean ironically though it works with Scythe works with Scythe very
49:47
well I think it works a lot of things anything where you're saying well this person's going to this part a town or whatever it'll work to some extent it's
49:53
just as say it's then all those side bits that decide whether or not the theme ultimately sticks let's let's look
What doesn't connect themes to games?
49:58
at the flip side of it now so if we talk about when it doesn't work we've already named Lords of Water Deep which I think
50:04
is quite a well-known one where everyone sort of says the theme feels quite pasted on and that's got lovely artwork
50:10
if you know DND D you know all the settings you know all of the classes you know all the missions you're going on and what they're there and yet it
50:17
doesn't feel like D and D it doesn't feel like any kind of adventuring thing at all but that's why I like it cuz I
50:24
don't think I'd be interested in any of that other stuff but it's not a thing the theme doesn't fit right the theme doesn't fit at all anything could be
50:29
anything and I'd like it just exactly the same exact but what is it that makes
50:35
it not fit I think because it's just you are putting one person getting a color maybe
50:42
you should be artist collecting paint that would fit because all you actually are needing to do is collect colors yeah
50:47
so if you were oh I'm I'm into cubism and the colors I'm collecting is blue then that that theme would be better
50:54
immediately maybe my you should play Fresco okay which is about painting a
51:00
one of the big ceilings okay but like when we were just mentioning that I was thinking about themes that maybe might
51:06
actually put you off and make you not want to play so like controversial games like mbasa that then gets re themed to
51:12
um Sky mines I haven't played either of those games but knowing what the theme is I wouldn't want to play the first one
51:20
with Sky mindes theme doesn't fit either so it's fine no but but if you find something if you find something aversive
51:26
because you don't care for the the thought behind it or or whatever then even if the game's amazing
51:33
you're not going to play it I did that with a game that we're actually playing planning on I know this comes out after Christmas but we're planning on playing
51:39
Christmas day yeah um JP said do you want to play a game about making wine
51:45
and I was like no no I don't cuz nobody should be playing viticulture just saying they should good game so but I
51:52
said to him oh should we play it this year and he's like oh let's Chuck in the cheese expansion do you know what I mean
51:57
like as a them as a theme and and this is back when we you know we very first
52:02
started playing ball gam so this is not long after I played Netrunner and he's like cool I've got this game about
52:08
making wine could not care less but it almost put me off playing the game but
52:14
it sticks the game and theme for V stick really I get it but as a selling point
52:19
yeah you know that's how we sold it to me he like do you want to play a game about making no I'd rather drink wine I
52:24
don't even like wine but I'd rather drink it than play board game about it but now actually we're playing at Christmas and I'm quite excited to play
52:30
it yeah it's really good yeah on my list of of games that I think they stick The Landing for the theme versus it is V
52:36
culture is very high up there I think for where it matches yeah um but so what is it that causes the disconnect when
52:43
you're talking about between theme and mechanic mechanisms a disconnect for me unconscious minds so it's a basically
52:50
it's a theme about um uh Freud uh and it's about uh analyzing dreams and
52:57
there's a word for it within the psychoanalysis world but I can't remember it at the moment um and it's
53:04
dreamology dreamology I don't know I think it's dreamology but we'll call it that for the time being isn't that a
53:11
mattress maybe so um but yeah so it's curing patients
53:19
through their sleep and the theme's really cool and the artwork's really cool and all the components are really
53:25
good and you look at it you think wow this is going to be great I'm going to get into this theme and then you start
53:31
playing it it's just resource conversion and you're just doing moving that resource conversion resource conversion do do do resource conversion moving that
53:37
around resource conversion and you're just like got nothing to do with healing people I wanted it's got really cool
53:45
little cards that I kind of like see through that sit on top of the patients
53:50
that give stat modifiers as well and what kind kind of what symbols you have to match with what resources so you have
53:56
to match those symbols so it's just there could have been something else that drove home the whole really
54:03
interesting concept that you've got here and I just feel like that didn't stick the landing and that really disconnected
54:09
me from the game because of it and I haven't played it since and that's really bad I do want to play again I was
54:15
just disappointed what it left me kind of like a bit deflated I think cuz the theme really gripped me and it's
54:22
really interesting and then it just didn't it didn't uh up to expectations maybe we can only be really
54:29
disappointed if we've gotten ourselves excited about the theme because everything we've just mentioned when we didn't like games because it didn't live
54:35
up to our expectation of the theme definitely not for me like if if a
54:41
if a theme doesn't fit a game in any way I can still enjoy the game but I can just go this is It's a Wonderful World
54:48
is one of my favorite games and it's just putting stuff putting cubes on stuff to create an engine that works but
54:55
it's got sci-fi it like it's got Space Invaders
55:00
and um tanks like old school tanks in it and then randomly it's got like
55:06
telekinesis and then it's just got oh and then there's a a holiday district and it's like none of this actually
55:12
makes sense right it doesn't make any sense at all but it doesn't matter to you but it doesn't matter to me because
55:18
the the the mechan mechanisms behind it are so good that the theme doesn't and
55:26
interestingly I think that it's wonderful it isn't the lightest but I find that it's a bit like surface area
55:32
the lighter the game the less surface area there is for the theme to stick to almost right so the second you get to
55:38
like I'm thinking like Century or Bandido or sabur or anything that you can see there's a theme but it doesn't
55:45
matter you see straight through it within seconds you stop seeing the theme almost and all that but I think Lords of
55:51
Water Deep has other stuff like if you look to other games at the similar weight
55:57
I can see games there that would stick like where they've stuck the theme more yeah maybe for me the the thing that
56:03
with with Lords of water deep is that it never feels like you're sending anyone on an adventure because they all disappear if
56:10
stuff came back maybe then I could understand it feeling like you're sending people on but what you're doing
56:16
is collecting cubes and sending them on an adventure you're not cards would have been nice as well yeah any anything that
56:21
makes it feel more like adventuring rather than just sending people off well I think that's why I like it cuz I really didn't like the idea of that
56:28
being I didn't want to play that game the picture's like I don't want to play this but then when I actually played in it was nothing to do with the theme I
56:34
thought it was oh I like this this is good you wouldn't have to do the dungeon part of it you just have to send the cards off and when they came back you
56:40
would get some of them back or you'd get loot with it that's kind of plot Quest cards or whatever but yeah I think
56:46
that's but that's why I like it more than it probably is is worth actually because the theme was so unappealing to
56:54
me so it's like the opposite of disappointment yeah I'm like oh great it's not so [ __ ] as I thought it was
57:00
like the the game isn't what I thought it was at all there's no fighting here brilliant I really like this so it's
57:05
almost like the the theme put me off but then when it actually wasn't themed at all or didn't need to be that's fine
57:11
then oh perfect but yeah you say that it doesn't matter that necessarily that the theme doesn't stick to it no cuz I
57:17
didn't like the theme so I'm happy that the theme didn't stick to it because I didn't like the idea of that so I've got kind of one that does and doesn't all at
57:23
the same time go for it love brilliant and I will quite happily admit to being a princess in that
57:30
game yet how many versions how many than how many versions of Love Letter are
57:37
there and the others whatever theme they put on it just doesn't quite work well
57:43
the Harry Potter one that I made does because it's exactly the same as the Marvel one that we played was but things
57:48
change don't they change it don't they they change the the because they have to because it has a different theming not
57:54
when you do the Harry Potter one that Becky love curly admittedly it was very good but that's like the theme of that game doesn't
58:00
matter the hell they change with the Marvel but when they change it it doesn't work yeah so what have they
58:07
changed with the Marvel it's a battle element so one person plays as Thanos
58:13
and the other three play as and and there's like a battle com battle part to
58:18
it that yeah the theme the theming ironically is kind you play as
58:24
characters and things like that so it's just it just doesn't work it doesn't feel the same game that's it and it
58:30
almost isn't because it's had a different theming you I mean I I I but
58:36
at the same point I couldn't tell you any charact I could tell you what all the characters do not all of them but I could tell most the characters do in love letter but I couldn't tell you any
58:42
of their names but that theming seems it seems like it shouldn't matter yeah there's a prince a God yeah um but
58:50
that's it but you know the theming shouldn't matter yet when when they change it it does matter do you know
58:55
what I mean like does that make sense I don't know because when I was thinking about what character from the Harry Potter Universe I wanted to make each
59:03
character from Love Letter I was thinking about you know the the horrible
59:08
spy is wormtail because he's a horrible little turdis so why but when they've
59:14
re-released it they've almost had to change it to sell it yeah but a reskin
59:20
is not going to sell enough copies they will need to put new mechanisms in there to make it new but then the theming
59:26
matters because it's nowhere near as good as the original that's mechanics wise as well though it is mechanics wise
59:33
as well but it it's a theme that they've kind of put on to sell it that actually has made the game a lot worse money
59:40
grabbing that's the main reason yeah so that's that's that's almost like when they're reskinning retheming stuff to
59:46
sell it that actually is worse than the original product yeah yeah anything else around theme mechanics just set as a
59:54
katan's probably the same as well there's no like theme nothing to it nothing again but again I think it's the
59:59
robber what do you mean you just take stuff me why is there one communal robber everyone uses who's who is this
1:00:06
guy just a random BL who just but also you can send them just go Nick something off of him yeah please right just is
1:00:14
just a cell sword but yeah again it's that I think it's just that thing of once you until a certain weight it's
1:00:20
really hard to get the theme stick because there's not enough of these little wrinkles in the game to as you TR
1:00:27
say like that you know where there's mechanics that are like well this doesn't fit with the theme or it does fit with the theme you don't have enough
1:00:33
of that going on to really make a and that point and and Century proved it right you just we've gone from Spice
1:00:39
trading to making golems with exactly the same mechanisms
1:00:45
and it's because there's no difference in the get it's just a coloring color things getting yeah it's not there's
1:00:50
nothing there to really pull the theme in but I still enjoy the game I still enjoy playing senty but there's no
1:00:56
there's no reason why cut cut your losses at that point isn't it there's no point in trying to attack more of a theme on like there's just not yeah
1:01:02
there's nothing it's not going to work and the spice Road one does kind of work until they introduce new world and and I
1:01:07
thought that didn't work at all the third expansion um but yeah yeah but you're not going to have like a big law
1:01:14
section and story behind it are you centy doesn't but I think there are some games that have tried to in the past
1:01:21
just like here's your four pages of dialogue for your 30 second card game sort of thing you know but yeah happy
1:01:27
days so yeah so I think it's fair to say that theme is important it it helps
1:01:32
drive forward a game it helps your immersion it helps you teach it but it's not
1:01:38
necessity um to have it there in order to make an enjoyable game I think is kind of what we've is that a correct
1:01:43
summation if you're prepar to put the time in yeah I think so
TURN 4 - Receive, Sleeve or Leave
1:01:55
[Music] so for our next section uh normally you'd be used to would you rather but in
1:02:01
for now we're going to try just something a little different so we have come up with a section that we are calling receive sleeve or leave so we
1:02:09
have board gamified um uh a section or or a game that a lot of people probably know um with this so without naming it
1:02:18
um so there are three options I'll give you three games you have to put one in each category you you it's either a game
1:02:24
that you wouldn't buy for yourself but if you received it you would enjoyy a couple of games of it and be happy that
1:02:29
you got it as a gift you have sleeve which means it's a game you would absolutely love and has to go on the
1:02:34
shelf and Davey can stop laughing at the word [Laughter]
1:02:40
sleeve and um because it's you're going to want to play it so much then you you're going to potentially sleeve it or
1:02:47
leave which is just leave it on the shelf so we fornicate marry and avoid
1:02:52
yes yes yeah let's call it that so that's that's the game we're playing right now theme Matters theme matters
1:03:00
however you call it it's still the same game going back to an earlier point and a little bit about theme and a theme I've been enjoying playing which is
1:03:06
horror I'm going to give you three horror games and you have to decide which one you would you like to receive which one of you sing and which one are
1:03:12
you leaving on the Shelf so the three games are Nemesis Fury of Dracula and
1:03:19
mansions of Madness oo just Davey just all lean back stretch
1:03:27
and I think I I I can go going I would sleeve Mansions yep I
1:03:35
think I don't think that needs much explanation I mean much sure Becky's probably the same maybe I'd receive
1:03:42
Dracula nice I would leave Nemesis not because I didn't enjoy it
1:03:49
not because it's a bad game I get bored playing Nemesis I will quite often get
1:03:55
in the capsule halfway so I can go and make a cup of tea genuinely I've played it three or
1:04:01
four times and each time I've gotten the capsule as soon as I can and gone and made a cup of tea and then I I've
1:04:06
enjoyed watching it play out at a distance yeah see what I mean I I
1:04:12
because it chair in the corner because it is so tense and because it is so knobby like I just I I I think I played
1:04:21
it once where I didn't get in the capsule and Tambo literally left me and I got eaten nice and then something
1:04:28
happened where his capsule didn't launch so he died as well so it was funny but the stress of it just it was too much
1:04:35
for me so yeah I'd leave Nemesis fair enough yeah what's everyone
1:04:40
else doing I'm going to leave Fury of Dracula okay I get a bit bored like with
1:04:46
you with Nemesis I just I've never played fur I've never played as Dracula have you not so maybe that might change
1:04:54
up a bit but and maybe because I've only played with new people a few times it's just the time it takes it
1:05:00
does take a while and I just like I've got to go to work tomorrow I've got to just I'm checking out I'm sorry I've got to it's half 11 now and I'm getting up
1:05:07
in a few hours I've got to go so that's the one I'm going to leave but sleeve and receive I don't know this is hard
1:05:14
because I love Mansions because it's a game that has got really fond memories
1:05:19
for me and it's a game that one of my friends likes to play who doesn't like to play many other games because of the
1:05:24
co-op element about it but Nemesis is such fun now yes it can be tense like Rob said it can be like
1:05:30
nail biting oh my God but it's such a brilliantly themed like what we were
1:05:36
saying before the mechanics really fit that game nice and mansions they
1:05:41
do but it I don't know because you got the scenarios can you ever really play
1:05:47
it again and have a completely different experience I don't know yeah I think there is a I think there is what do they
1:05:53
call it uh reduced return whatever the term is Yeah the more you play it the
1:05:59
less you'll get out of it I think there is that built into Mansion maybe that's the same with Nemesis to be honest so I'm going to I'm going to sleeve
1:06:05
Mansions because I spent such a lot of time making the insert for that game so
1:06:10
I will I will receive Nemesis I think I'm the same as Becky
1:06:16
sleeve mansions mansions is always a game whenever I've played it I've always really enjoyed it yeah absolutely so
1:06:21
other than the first edition um where we all sat around and try to play that and it was when we it was like one of the
1:06:28
first modern ball games we got into so it's a long time ago now but I remember
1:06:33
just sit around trying to learn the rules and play that and Jesus when it was like 8 hours later I just thought I've had enough I've had enough never
1:06:40
want to see this game again second edition is just 10 times better um and
1:06:46
then yeah uh leave Dracula I'm I just think Beast does it better I
1:06:52
prefer to play Beast um and yeah I'll receive
1:06:58
uh Nemesis Nemesis prob probably won't play it much but I'll receive Nemesis yeah you say
1:07:05
kind yeah but I'm just you know I'm fully done with dra so I just think
1:07:11
there's certain aspects of Dracula which are bit outdated now yeah I agree uh the combat and sometimes if Dracula's
1:07:19
nowhere near you as a player you're just like I'm not really doing anything don't have to worry that's it that's how I
1:07:25
felt in my last game I think was it with JP I can't really remember but he was just so far away from everyone else it
1:07:31
was like what am I even doing just nothing ra I don't even need to be here
1:07:37
yeah lost in a yeah area yeah in a pub in Ireland
1:07:43
somewhere that sounds like a great game I would really like to play White
1:07:48
Chapel I think I'd really like that uh yeah I I prefer White Hall white is that
1:07:53
what I mean maybe so there's two there's White Chapel which is one where you basically go out and come back to the
1:07:59
same spot and then there's White Hall where you go round the map uh I don't know which one I mean then described it
1:08:05
I like the thought white is the smaller one which I prefer White Chapel is a bit of a bigger game and I just don't I
1:08:11
think it's just added I think it was the original one but it's got a bit more into more in it whichever was the one
1:08:16
that you were saying you really liked I liked the sound of that one well play White Hall at some point um what about
1:08:21
yourself mate I am pretty much the complete opposite um I have no time for Mr wibbles as I pointed out lots of
1:08:27
times and I think Mansions of Madness is okay as a game I think mechanically
1:08:33
it's a bit dull and I think that the insanity thing just doesn't work
1:08:39
personally so Mansions goes gets left you're too sane for that game that's
1:08:44
what it is in bin um so yes I I'll leave Mansions that's harsh um a bloody big
1:08:50
bin for Mansions let me tell you he takes it too far doesn't he always takes it too far so um so yeah so
1:08:56
unfortunately I've tried Mansions a few times cuz I've got other friends who when I was first getting into board
1:09:02
games thought it was the best game ever and I just could not get into it so have you played Arkham horr the card game no
1:09:10
I've played eldrich horror the board game version thing I think it's yeah
1:09:16
there's one that's kind of more of a board gamey version horor I'm sure that's ELD horror so I remember playing
1:09:21
that just about um so Mansions does nothing for me that's getting left um
1:09:27
Fury of Dracula there are better versions of that hidden movement but I do quite enjoy it it's just a bit you
1:09:34
say it's a bit dated and it's a bit bloated but I love the mechanics of hidden movement stuff that so that's the
1:09:40
one that I am receiving and then what I'm sleeving is Nemesis even though I don't own a copy because every game I've
1:09:45
ever had of that even the boring ones that end a bit too quick I've just enjoyed watching what people do yeah
1:09:52
it's great for the storytelling so from a storytelling point of view so I would sleeve Nemesis as well we I think we've
1:09:58
had well we had three different opinions out of four people there didn't we yeah mhm so so yeah happy days so let us know
1:10:05
let us know what you think about that section um let us know what you choose and what you would choose yeah and whether we we continue with it or
1:10:11
whether we try something different or whatever so always up for for trying something different and seeing whether it
1:10:17
[Music]
TURN 5 - Penultimate Turn: What's Coming Up
1:10:24
works so that's it so the next part is the penultimate turn what do we have coming up what's on our Horizons board
1:10:30
game wise I've got a lot of time off coming up yep so I'm going to be playing a hell of a lot of games so Sun well
1:10:38
this weekend we are playing Cloud spy for the first time so I want to see what it's like uh we're going to do the co-op
1:10:45
so okay nice should be should be good fun awesome game awesome game then I'm playing The Witcher the day after but
1:10:52
Co-op we're trying the co-op and see how that plays so it's um fighting the wild Hunt nice then at some point in the next
1:11:00
couple of weeks we have a too many bones day did you see in the news uh trailer for yeah which you play a Siri yeah yeah
1:11:08
looks good it looks awesome good it's the natural progression apparently some people kicking off that you play a girl shut up play the third one I don't know
1:11:14
if anyone is or whether it's just they always go someone always goes oh someone's kicking off about this and you go but where where is this actually
1:11:20
happening who is that person that's kicking off about you want someone to kick off about it made I I've spent a
1:11:27
game five books and three TV series of trying to protect that girl like yeah
1:11:33
yeah yeah um so moving on uh we got too many bones day wow so we're going to
1:11:38
play I'm literally coming around at breakfast um and then probably leaving
1:11:44
about midnight MN yeah sounds awesome that sounds so good I know um so we're
1:11:49
doing that uh vtic culture uh D and D with my daughter like yeah I got a lot
1:11:56
of I'm looking forward to hearing about that I think she's it's going to be fun she's got honestly she got a backstory sorted out she's got the reason she's
1:12:02
left The Enclave because she's playing as a druid and literally she she's in the she's been in the panto so we when
1:12:09
we're like killing time the car when we've got like 15 minutes to kill she's been planning it all so um that's really
1:12:16
I love planning characters it's been really sweet to see her kind of figure it out and and yeah I'm really looking
1:12:22
forward to playing so it's it's such a satisfying part of that Hobby and if she's really enjoy engaging with that
1:12:27
then that's a good sign so um yeah really looking forward to this period coming up cuz I got a lot of time off
1:12:32
which is going to be nice I mean I've only had a job for three weeks nice so the fact I've got some time off is
1:12:38
really nice I've been very much looking forward to it so I have a fair bit of time coming up um hopefully in the near
1:12:45
future and there's two games I've got on the horizon that I'm really looking forward to that I haven't played so one of them is mener when we finish gridon I
1:12:53
said to PA can I hold on to the copy of mener cuz I really want to play it and then unfortunately I've had to cancel the few game days with the people I
1:12:59
wanted to play it with um so that's still not being played yet but it just looks I was watching um some
1:13:05
playthroughs and stuff and I really think this is going to be a game for me so I need to get it to the table it's getting a bit like like a an obsession
1:13:12
an itch that I need to scratch to kind of for mener too bitty too bitt it has
1:13:18
tracks and like areas to go to but I think it's my kind of that game I think
1:13:24
there's it's that thing of you can make you can plan and you can also make some last minute decisions people affect you
1:13:30
like the cost of things go up as people go to work placement spaces and all that kind of stuff and that's I think there's plenty of stuff in there be nice to
1:13:36
finish a game yeah as I say I I want to play it and if I love it I'll probably buy it and then we could put a day up
1:13:42
for it and then the other one that um I bought from the 24-hour marathon is the
1:13:49
crypto I've never played it before I love the crypto it's great I really it's one of those where everyone talks
1:13:54
positively about it um and we're trying to work out how to fit so many people in for a game one night so um just one was
1:14:01
on the list of course but the crypto the other one on the list that people want to try so yeah so yeah really looking
1:14:07
forward to that again I don't think it's new to most people but it will be new to me so I'm quite excited to give that a
1:14:12
go nice there we go nice um I've actually just put an event up of Orleans
1:14:19
which has been sat on the shelf forever pronounce that again for me well there's orans or
1:14:25
oron so whatever insert insert your PR well it depends if you're French or not
1:14:31
I suppose um so yeah I'm looking forward to actually trying that that should be cool I started to watch a how to play
1:14:38
video but I was Ill at the time and it just made me go to sleep which is actually really really nice at the time
1:14:44
but I I thought this looks good fall asleep so I'm actually looking forward to playing that and of course going on holiday that I'm doing all this planning
1:14:50
for so it should be good I've got nice stuff to start talking like Gambit oo I'm going to make a name for myself here
1:14:57
that was an awful impression who's gamb you doing Gambit from Marvel yeah I thought you were
1:15:03
hobby that was aw be bad I don't know who Gambit is oh um in he's an X-Man
1:15:10
he's an x- he's in Marvel which everyone always used to think that he was uh like French Canadian yeah French Canadian but
1:15:16
he's actually um Cajun um from the bou from the Louisiana but- they' got a
1:15:23
really weird accent he and he actually sounded spot on in the film uh cuz it was Channing taton playing the character
1:15:29
who's from that area who's from that area so he did the accent really well but everyone was like what what is this
1:15:35
accent and then you actually see some Cajun people and some people from the B you and you're like oh off yeah they do
1:15:42
sound like that anyway Dave what have you got coming up going to be playing slay the Spy I've I I've basically um
1:15:49
Taz got it for me for my birthday thank you Taz Oh that's nice um and yeah be
1:15:55
playing that finally we might play over my birthday but I got stormed in pretty much all weekend so uh yeah wasn't able
1:16:02
to do anything so going to be doing that um probably going to be playing some
1:16:08
Primal as always um and then oh Rob's sad cuz he's not playing Primal well too
1:16:14
many bones where's my invite to many bones I was just thinking that oh we started a war too many he wanted to do a three
1:16:21
player sorry it's spe a GP and he wanted to do a three player to JP for ages I wanted to play too many bones what about
1:16:27
that anyway you got I've been saying you for ages just get a prime win yes is the same where you at son you're too busy um
1:16:34
Welcome to our board game group and look inside our that's it that's the end of our episode so thank you very much for
TURN 6 - The Final Turn
1:16:40
listening um if you know anyone who like the podcast please mention us to them um we're always looking for more listeners
1:16:46
if you want to get in touch with us we have email Facebook Tik Tok Instagram
1:16:51
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1:16:57
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1:17:03
this running and to improve our quality sound quality and bits and pieces you can do again all of the information for
1:17:10
that is in the show notes we appreciate all of those who support us already thank you very much to those already supporting us on coffee it's much
1:17:15
appreciated and uh yeah the question next question I suppose is whose turn is it Anyway
1:17:23
[Music]