Our Relationship with Money

Kat and Val are thrilled to announce a second season! This episode our charming hosts share personal updates and then dive deep into their experiences with money. Tune in for all the cackle-laugh filled pickle ball drama, mushroom drama, possible alien contact, and healing insights about how to move away from a scarcity money mindset.

This season Kat and Val plan to record longer episodes about once a month as they practice centering their needs while producing this labor of love. If you’d like to support the show please “buy us a cup of coffee” and help offset costs! 

Thanks for listening! 

*This podcast is for entertainment purposes only

Find us on Instagram:
Kat and Val Podcast

Val's offerings:
Val is in the pickle ball documentary trailer!
So This is Love Club
Reset Yourself for Love Program
Instagram So This is Love Club

Kat's offerings:
Fat Liberation Art -Fat Mystic Etsy Shop
Instagram- katmaxisfree
Tiktok- katmaxisfree

Additional resources/definitions referenced in most episodes:
The soul of Money by Lynne Twist
How to Change Your Mind (Netflix Docuseries) Micheal Pollan
Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria
Jill Johnson Young- grief talker
Five Stages of Grief
Intuitive eating.org
NAAFA National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
Tell Me I'm Fat - This American Life
Adrienne Maree Brown
Pleasure Activism; The Politics of Feeling Good
Come as You

Transcript

Val: 0:05

You're listening to three questions with Katten, Val I'm Kat and I'm bow. We've been friends for over 20 years. Thousands of therapists and cats and artists. We're both great talkers. And we're both XFN delicacy who used to pastor gay. Now we both have chronic illnesses. We think we're fucking hilarious. Well hello there. Hello Val. How are you Kat? I'm two weeks into a fucking cold motherfuckers. I'm not contagious anymore but I have this like real nice deep sexy voice for you all. Yes. You're welcome. You're welcome. I'll try to like pull really hard away from the microphone when I have to cough again though. That'll be my gift to you Well, I was rushing as you got here because I was trying to unwind my house put it back together for this crazy weekend Yeah but also we've been having amazing, we've had our little petite summer. Oh. We came, right? You loved it? I was like, what the fuck is it hot for? I'm ready for fall. I loved it. I was waiting for it. So, that was a lot of fun. And I had a pickleball tournament this weekend. Yes, you did. And we brought home the bronze medal. Champion! We went up a level. This is my mixed doubles part. And it was 95 degrees, so I just want it to go on record, isn't it great to have a podcast? So,

Kat: 1:33

That

Val: 1:33

I survived nine games in a 95 degree heat, which Ever, ever since I was a child I turned beet red at any kind of heat. So I was actually a little nervous at all my little, all my little gadgets. We actually in a break went into the car and sat in the air conditioning to keep our body temperatures down. Right. Kind of smart. Yep. And of course I had to reapply my lipstick before we had the metal ceremony. And, a fellow, a fellow pick a baller was taking our picture and he, it. And he was like, look how cute you look. He's like, no one would know that you are so incredibly fierce, beat people down on the court. I'm like, I kind of like that. Yeah. I got a little sneaky. You're like, I'm sneaky. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So good looking. And then I want to beat your ass like I want to totally demolish you totally totally demolish you. Yeah, I did I I if you've been a long time a listener of the podcast my first mixed doubles partner I said look cuz they're like, you know, you can get in trouble in a in a tournament for swearing. Oh, I was like Oh shit. Fuck

Kat: 2:38

I said, look, I

Val: 2:39

Promise a partner said look I will not get us kicked out of this tournament for swearing Yeah, it'll be for fisticuffs. How only good is kicked out if we need to fight some other fuckers. Oh my gosh, that's awesome. I got it. So but I got a little mouthy at this tournament. I know I

Kat: 2:55

Mouthy now?

Val: 2:56

did. I did. I thought you would like that terminology. Yeah. Haven't turned you on in a while. I

Kat: 3:10

was doing it for me. Mouthy be, I

Val: 3:12

was getting mouthy and this, this girl did not like my call. I called it out and she was like, that was, Oh, you know, it was out. And she was a really sweet person. She, after our first game, she tapped my paddle. She's like, great game girl. I'm like, Oh, thanks. Right. But she was like, that was out. So her partner, who I think was her husband was like, it's their call. It's not your call. Yeah, she calmed down But the next shot she she we floated a ball just a little too high So she slammed it right at me, right and it was it was a great shot. Yeah, so she looks at me and she's like Yes! In your face and then I look at her actually I didn't say exactly at her like I wasn't being confrontational, but I go Ooh, she's angry I was like, wow, what are you doing? Stop it. Like, no, you have to, you have to just let it get as big as it's going to get. Oh man.

Kat: 4:00

I know, man.

Val: 4:01

I know. I'm afraid of that. I still am a Sagittarius, which I, I've been a good girl. I've not put things on fire. I have not torn the things fire sign, dude. I know, but I do feel it now that we've been talking about like all of our conditioning. I'm like, I do feel, I feel the need. Okay. It's a, it's an environment. specifically created to let you have that expression. Right? But then I was like, oh, I don't know her personality that might have just unleashed the beast. Yeah. So after she was like, oh, hey, sorry about that. You know, I let the competition get the best of me and I was like. Oh, it's okay. I apologize as well. I said, but I thank you for saying that. So we were also highly evolved and also we were bitching at each other. See, that's the beauty of it. Yeah. Like my good friend and I, I was like, what if we like give ourselves permission to like actually fight? Like it's kind of a game, but you get to get all riled up and you have like some kind of like, you know, my safe word. Yes. Safer for fighting. Like, because again, we're like, we're.

Kat: 5:04

we're,

Val: 5:05

I'm trying to not be so contained all the time. It sounds like that's what you're talking about. And so, like, you let yourself, like, let it get as big as it needs to get because then it will move all the way through. And you're like, look at me. I'm just an alive human in the world, having some fucking experiences, getting pissed off at Pickleball. Losing my shit, Pickleball! Well, I did tell my partner, I was like, cause we had a couple of rocky days before where both of us were frustrated on different days and he is an amazing human being. But I was like, Oh, I think, I think we're getting to the stage in the relationship where we can let it hang out. Yeah. So he was mad at me. He was mad at me. The game of before frustrated. Like you can't hit it there. And I'm like, well, I'm trying to keep it low. He's like, but they're attacking me. And so we, we talked it out in the, in the air conditioning of my car. As you've seen the memes that are like, it's too hot out here. Watch how you talk to me. Right. You see those where it's like, yeah, that was very funny. We're in the time where you got to watch how you talk to me. Cause it's too hot. So we were in there conditioning. We talked it through and we, you know, expressed our feelings and, but I noticed that too like and it's a great point you bring out like why live so restrained Yes, we're like to fucking recovering good girls It's exhausting and like we're still looking to give ourselves permission in the safest way possible to not do any harm to like lose our Timber once in a while, right or to blow off steam Yes hot day and you're like competitive and it's fun to get riled up like That's not a bad thing. No, and, and, and I've, I've actually been told a couple of times where I'll be like, yes. Right. And then, and then or I'll just be like, come on. And then

Kat: 6:40

like, Great shot!

Val: 6:43

like, wow, you can switch real quick. I'm like, I just had to get it out. Yeah. I just had to get it out. Right. Yeah. Or there was this meme of this little boy. I mean, he must've been only two or three years old. He has little cat backwards and this giant tennis racket. It's nighttime. Why are you, why are you drilling your child at nighttime? That I don't understand. Yeah. Every time he hit the ball, no matter how he hit it. And of course, he's only two or three, so it's just barely going over. He'd stop, turn over, and he'd do like the power fist gesture. He'd go, Come on! That's awesome! Every shot, Come on! And so, I sent it to our text group, and I was like this is me, and I'm trying not to do it on every shot, but this is how I encourage myself for the bad shots. I Was laughing when you said good girl, because I wasn't going to tell this story, but, even though it's really funny, but now I'm going to tell it, because you said it. I was at Pickleball and I don't know if you've noticed, but I have a new engagement ring. No. What? That's new? Oh, you've got a lot of fucking bling. and I was like, that's stunning, but I didn't know it to be different than

Kat: 7:44

different than the other bling girls have. So, so

Val: 7:49

the in an effort to kind of, and we're talking about money today, so this is all really amazing, anyway I'm not allowed to wear it to pick a ball. It came with a matching set of earrings, and I am not allowed to wear them. I'm like, come on babe, I'm gonna be like that, that, that lady that like, wears her diamonds to pick a ball. Like, I like the juxtaposition, like, fuck you, bring it on. And but I'm gonna wear my diamonds, you know?

Kat: 8:12

know?

Val: 8:13

He was like, if they break, yeah,. I'm divorcing you. Oh, no. To him, it's a divorce worthy because. Oh, wow. Because. Misuse of things or, or, or breaking things that you didn't need to break is really the cardinal sin from all of his money stuff, right? Like it's not the money. It's that you were careless. Well, I don't know how I would break those earrings playing pickleball, but anyway, yeah, I get it. Yeah. Okay. Well, has a ball ever hit you in the ear? I mean, is that a thing that happens? I don't think so. But anyway I'm not allowed to wear it. I, I, I agreed. I mean, he's not holding me hostage. I agreed. But it's funnier to say he doesn't allow me, but I'm like, okay. I try to remember to take it off. Right. One day, I didn't remember and honestly I'd rather keep it on my finger than put it in a bag that it could be. Oh yes, exactly. So we're standing there talking and then one of my pickleball buddies was like, Oh my god! What's on your finger? And I was like, oh yeah, it's a new ring. And then I got like, embarrassed a little bit and they're like, what? I mean, did you have that before? I'm like, no, it's new. And we always joke about an upgrade, but that kind of sounds weird to say. So I don't know. I just said, yeah, I was a very good girl. And then, and then my friend was like, that's the hottest thing you've ever said. There it is. I was like, I guess I was a good girl. She's like, that was so hot. It's the hottest thing you've ever said. And then I'm like, so there's all the, it's all, we're in mixed company. I'm like, shut up. And so I was so embarrassed. Mixed company is such an old thing. We don't say that anymore. That's not even real. I know. That's made up now. I know. I know. How do I, okay, how do I say like, there were other people listening and it was embarrassing. They're all adults. I know. People are sexual beings. It's allowed. Yeah. Oh, you're so uncomfortable right now. Yeah, I was. I was. Because yeah, then I was like, oh my gosh, now I feel stupid. And then I was like, whatever. Wait, Val, someone was like, that's so hot. And you're like, I feel stupid. What is that? I think because in my attempt to explain my discomfort, I went to humor, right? Yeah. I still get very I guess I get embarrassed. Yeah. Like that's hot. And then also I was like, I'm a good girl. And I'm going to get a diamond. Like that. I was like, Ooh, I don't like that. I said that, but then they thought it was hot. So, okay. But it's all place. So it's all loud. It was great. It was great. But you're right. We spent just circling it all the way back. What made me think of that was, yeah, we did spend a lot of time being good and proper and indoctrinated with so many like rules and like restrictions. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So I do, I, and like someone has called it out to me that if I make a bad shot, I'm like, Oh shit. And I had to remind people, I'm not like giving up. It's just. It actually feels better to just go, Oh shit. And then like let that out. Like that discussed or the disappointment or the mistake, like verbally process it and let it get out of my body. Discharge it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're verbal processors. That's what we are. That's why our podcast is so amazing. Yeah. All right. So before I move on from pickleball, two more things, two more things. One, I've been going to physical therapy for my ankle, for my back, for my knee, whatever. And the, the physical therapist was great. And like, you know just, you know, well, since you're an athlete and all this, and I'm telling her like, I'm, you know, playing in these tournaments and then, you know, so she's telling me her plan and then she's like, okay. And so after this you're going to be a pickleball champion. And of course, I cannot let this incorrect perception stand. So I was like, Oh, but I already am a pickleball champion. And you know, she's like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But I've talked before about one of my best. You know, my best friends that she is my super hype girl, overhype girl telling people we went shopping, telling people in the store, you know, she's a pickleball champion, right? Yeah. All this stuff. Oh my gosh. It's too funny. The other thing about pickleball. Is that I think, I don't know if I said it on the Pickleball updates in the past when we first started the podcast, but you may also see me in a Pickleball documentary. Oh,

Kat: 12:22

wow.

Val: 12:23

Okay. I'm so ready for this. It was so funny when I started, it was like, Oh yeah, I'm going to be in a tournament. Oh yeah, I'm going on a pickleball vacation. Oh yeah, and I'm going to be in a pickleball documentary. So a good pickleball buddy of mine is an award winning film documentarian,

Kat: 12:36

film documentarian. Oh my gosh. Good job.

Val: 12:38

And yeah, she's been recording and she has a Kickstarter campaign out right now. So they. Have the trailer ready. Yeah. And they're raising money to finish, get the funds to finish the documentary. Yes. Just talking about the life changing power of pickleball, the phenomenon that is pickleball, the phenomenon that is pickleball. Yeah. I love it so much. So we're gonna put the link if you, if you feel like you wanna donate to that. Yeah. And lemme get this made. I am in the trailers. I love it. See it there. Oh my gosh. I can't wait to watch the trailer. So we'll put that in the show notes. You guys, if you guys wanna donate to making the. The documentary happened and, and that I, that was filmed like a year ago maybe. And it's so funny how Pickleball has become so cool now in the beginning. I'm like, do you know what Pickleball is now? It's like, Oh my gosh, everybody knows. It's mainstream. But so the, the interviews were done about a year ago. But then we had this like big event and she and her film crew were following me around because she's like, I just have to get like B roll of the people who are in the documentary. So she's He's following me. Rafik's carrying my heavy pickleball bag. Everyone is like, these are all my friends, but they're like what are you doing? I'm like, yeah, you knew, you know, I was.

Kat: 13:52

a star.

Val: 13:53

Of course, Val that makes perfect sense. So

Kat: 13:56

good job.

Val: 13:57

that's sort of my uptake.

Kat: 13:59

I love it. What's been

Val: 14:02

going on with you? You gave me a teaser and I was like, Kat, I need to know about this. Yeah. So if you guys listen to the bonus episode, we we talked about the fact that I feel really changed and altered because I've been doing a lot of healing and a lot of growth and part of my like healing journeys include.

Kat: 14:19

It

Val: 14:19

Included mushrooms and psilocybin psychedelics, and it's been a really like positive experience in my life Well, I was just feeling so cocky after our last recording that like we recorded on a Friday and then that Saturday I like hung out with some friends. I just had like a magical day and then I was listening to this audiobook I told you there's all these authors that are writing books that were like underground using

Kat: 14:42

Psychedelics

Val: 14:42

psychedelics and then you know, I've gotten really interested in like like cosmology and metaphysics in like a deeper way, right? And so I'm listening to this audiobook while I'm like having the most magical day. On a Saturday and then I wake up really early on Sunday morning and I'm like, I'm going to fucking take all the goddamn fucking mushrooms. And I was like, I'm doing another big trip, fuckers. OK, so I had done a high dose trip once before. I talked about it in the trip. And I was like, I talked about in our last podcast. And I'm like, yeah, it's like I don't know, there's something kind of amazing about being willing to allow your concepts of reality to expand or shift altogether or collapse it on themselves. Right. And there is an element that I'm like, it feels like I'm like an extreme sport person, but on the inside. Right. And when I think about, you look out into the universe, you look at the stars and the cosmos and you think about how vast it all is, right? From my experience, when we start doing like exploration with our own subconscious, it feels to me that it's as vast as the whole of the universe externally. That's how much is in here on the inside, right? So I'm like, I love exploring this shit. It's so fun. So, that book I was listening to, this dude, he did 72 high dose LSD trips over the course of like 30 years and he's like a college professor and it was fascinating, he like very meticulously documented like every one of his trips and I heard him interviewed on a podcast and then I got his book and I was listening to it. Okay, so, he's over and over saying like, it, the result, he experienced a lot of suffering Psycho like I don't want to say like, how do I say this like like tapping into human consciousness? Right, all of us as individual humans have experienced suffering in our lives and there's sort of like a collective suffering And so my experience has been that when we open up our consciousness. We got to be Like, say we want to hold more light, we also have to be willing to hold more dark, right? And so, like, if I'm going to open myself up more to, like, contain more, that means I've got to be willing to walk through the hard part, too, right? So anyway, that's what this guy's talking about in the book. And I, I do not know what my fucking deal is, Val, but I was just like, yeah, like, why did that egg me on?

Kat: 17:00

but it

Val: 17:01

He's like, basically cautioning everybody. He's like I did all this so you don't have to, right? And I was like, yeah, fucker, I'm gonna do it, though. Watch out, man. So, I like That is your, like, call to action. I don't know why, yeah. Be careful, people. Have caution. Well, okay, so I can understand you, I can understand that the, the wanting to experience it for yourself. I think so. And I just, I don't know what it is about me that this is like the thing that is just in me to discover more. And again, it does feel like those folks that like,

Kat: 17:36

I

Val: 17:36

don't know, the, the, the, the people that feel this need to discover the parts of the ocean we haven't seen.

Kat: 17:41

Sure, sure.

Val: 17:43

And I, I, I just am one of those people, I guess. And I'm, I'm just doing the next thing that feels the most shiny to me, right? Like I'm following my enthusiasm. And so, yeah, so understanding my own subconscious. And how that fits into the larger like collective consciousness and like raising global consciousness. And what are we doing? And what is humankind? And why are we here? All that shit. Right? So, um, anyway, I, at like four in the morning, I wake up really early on Sunday and I decide I'm going to take A whole lot of mushrooms and so they're all ground up already. I just dump a ton and I like a cup of hot cocoa and I just down it. I go right back to bed and I proceed to have a really, really intense experience and it's very early on a Sunday morning and I did not close my window. And so I like, Oh no, what time is it? It's four in the morning.

Kat: 18:35

What?

Val: 18:35

That's not morning yet! I know, I know, I know. So, I lock the doors, I feel safe in my own home, right, my kids are not, I'm not the payer, I'm not in charge of anything. I feel like this is a completely fine thing to do. Sure, sure. I think that now I would probably not do another high dose trip unless I have a trip sitter. Yeah. Because it turns out I was loud. I was having an experience and making noises that scared my neighbors and it was early in the morning on a Sunday and I'm completely out of it. Like I'm tripping balls, right? And so I, I can remember parts of the trip and parts of the experience and it really did include like, okay, this is the language that makes sense to me. So you guys can just hang in there with me. And if it resonates, great. If not, that's fine. lIke there's lower frequency and there's higher

Kat: 19:23

right?

Val: 19:24

And so we're all energy and like the collective human experience. I have lived part of my life where I would say, like in my childhood, there was a lot that was difficult in my childhood. I would say that the frequency or the energy I was in was denser, was heavier, right? And as I've healed, I've grown I feel like I'm, I'm living now in a. state of like higher frequency, right? And it's more spacious here. And I don't feel I, I just feel more in line with myself. I feel more freedom, right? So this, this trip I'm on. I'm sort of cycling through like sort of my own story, but then also like the collective experience of humanity and like the low, low density. And then I'm like, Oh, I'm like realizing things in the trip. And so I'm saying things out loud, but I don't, I don't totally know that that's what's happening. But at one point during the trip, while I'm really, really altered, there's a knock on my window, which is in the back of my apartment. And they're saying, Hello, this is the Oakland Pleiades. Police, Catherine, are you okay? And I was like... I, I, I don't totally know what's happening. I don't know that it's like happening in like, yeah.

Kat: 20:30

yeah.

Val: 20:30

And so I'm able to say out loud, I'm on a mushroom trip. And then, and then, so then later I find out the whole backstory and it was super fucking uncomfortable and very exposing and I didn't like how it felt. But yeah, and then I continue to have the trip and then eventually I'm like kind of asleep. I'm slowly coming to. So it turns out a neighbor that I don't know, here's a lot of noise. Yeah. And, and I, I don't know exactly what they heard and that feels uncomfortable to me too, right? Like I'm having an experience that like isn't private. I thought it was private, but turns out it's not private. I didn't close my fucking window. I don't know why I didn't think to not close the window. I don't know if the window would have made that different, the much difference, right? A pane of glass. Who the fuck knows how loud I was being? I actually don't know. Right? So. One neighbor calls a neighbor I do know that neighbor calls my ex husband because they can't tell if there's like, I'm talking enough that they're, they're not sure if it's like a domestic issue. Right. And so then my neighbor, I know this is so fucked up. Right. And then, am I allowed to laugh? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Oh my God, I've had like weeks and weeks to integrate from this. Now I am so mad that you have not told me about this. Like, okay, I, listeners, I took, if there's a policer involved, if this magnitude of a story, I, I can feign surprise on the podcast. Come on,

Kat: 21:50

Come on.

Val: 21:51

Yeah. No, honestly, it was difficult to talk about for a while because it felt, I'm sure extremely uncomfortable because again, in this is why I, I'm sorry about, this is why I, I This is why I avoid them at all costs. Oh, I, I feel like I would maybe figuratively die, maybe literally, but I'd want to literally die but figuratively. But dying is part of it, Val. Dying is the beautiful part of it. You die and then you're reborn. Keep going. It's amazing. Okay. So yeah, the police, this is what I found out later. The police came because the neighbor that I don't know called them because they're like concerned. Sure. Right. And then as I'm processing it, my friends are reflecting. Back to me. You know, like, but you know, isn't that kind of a nice thing, you know, that your neighbors care about you? Like if something bad was happening and like, you know, the police would come. And I'm like, I guess mostly it made me feel very exposed. Sure. In a way that I wasn't very comfortable with. And it also sort of kicked loose. Like the fear of like the state or the authority. Oh, Uhhuh. Right. And I had to work through all those kinds of feelings afterwards. So when I'm able to kind of come up out of it enough to say, I'm on a mushroom trip. The police are talking to the neighbors that are like out there, listening to me. They're like, yep, okay, bye. Right? There's no problem. There's nothing to do. Right? That's it. You've probably had many other calls like that. this is not an illegal thing that I am producing. I'm an adult. I'm like safe at home. And you're okay. Yeah. It's a wellness check. Wellness check. Yeah. Basically. Yes. Yeah. And so they left and then I found one of my other neighbors my ex husband calls the neighbor that I'm closer to and she fills me in on some of the things and it was just weird and awkward. I was so like, Embarrassed that like my ex husband was sort of brought into he's not this is not his deal at all Yeah, like we're not close friends at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah He's a great parent and we're doing fine like swapping the kids back and forth But yeah, like one time when we were having conflict I was like, what if we just did mushrooms together and he was like absolutely not and then this only fueled his like I will never do that. I was like it feels fucking good Yeah, but no, and then I had, okay, that's the thing, right? So I had that experience, which it feels to me like.

Kat: 24:01

It keeps

Val: 24:02

opening and opening my consciousness. I can hold more, more duality. I can hold more both and. I can hold more contradiction because it's all of us just having these human experiences and it, it allows you to zoom out so far that you're like, we're already, we're okay. Like it's not wrong. None of it feels wrong. I don't know how to explain it any better than that, but yeah, so, but it took a while. Can I ask? What was the content of like, were you just like making loud noises or were you saying things? You don't have to say what it was, but yeah. Okay. So what it felt like. Okay. Can you guys all picture like the double helix of a d n A kind of spiral? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. it felt like I was it. Playing a game where you go through the spiral just to have experiences and the spiral were like you could see like the different levels. It was frequency. Okay, when I think about like what this all is, like the idea like simulation theory is not new. I'm not inventing this, but the experiences I'm having when I explore psychedelics are confirming this idea that we're in a virtual reality situation. Yeah, that we're quantum physics talks about this too, right? So like when you get to the smallest point of what an atom actually is, it's just energy. It's just energy. So it's not a new idea. But while I was on the mushrooms, I'm seeing this thing and it looks like this sort of a spiral staircase or like the, the double helix thing, right? And each level I'm feeling, I'm experiencing the vibration of that. I'm experiencing what it feels like to be in that low level of density and it's difficult. It doesn't feel good, right? And then, then there's like, then I, in, in the trip I sort of realized, Oh, if I just accept it, if I stop resisting it, and then it lifted me up to the next one. And then, and then there was like. It was like I could hear things like, like follow your joy. Right. And then I could lift up the next one. And then it was, it's all just a game. And then I could lift up the next one. It felt like it was not just me having an individual experience. It felt like human consciousness, like how we all lift up, how we raise consciousness. When we start to infuse more play and more joy into our life, we move out of like a constant state of trauma. This is hard. This is dark. Right. With the thing about learning, like Children who've been through difficult things have a hard time playing like adults who like stuck in trauma with hard time playing and that's why Pickleball is sweeping the nation, right? It's so powerful in your life because when we get to center our lives around pleasure and play, It is raising our vibration. And so I keep going up and up and up. And then again, there's sort of like these phrases on every level to get to the next one. And I'm saying those things out loud and then I get all the way to the top and it starts to get like. Like, like the air gets, I don't know, air is not the right word, but the atmosphere just gets more and more spacious and spacious and spacious and it's all white when you get kind of the top. It's like, it feels less,

Kat: 27:03

I

Val: 27:03

don't know how to explain this, but there's less population there. Right. If you will. And then you get to this. sense of like blissed out state and then there's this like it's a spiral it's like the infinity sign you just keep going and then i was like oh my god i'm gonna do it again and then i would drop right back down to the lowest five oh wow i'd have to redo the whole thing again i'd be like oh this is hard this doesn't feel very good i don't think i like this oh if i just if i just

Kat: 27:35

Like, yield.

Val: 27:37

Oh, if I just stopped resisting and then I just went all through the levels over and over again. That was the trip. It was that thing over and over again. Like, I think that maybe is what, you know, human consciousness is just doing. We're just having experiences and we're learning these lessons on in new different ways and new perspectives and all that kind of shit. And then somewhere in all that, the police are like, you okay? And I'm like, I'm on a mushroom trip. But I think that in the lower. Lower frequency experience. It wouldn't surprise me if I'm yelling. I don't remember yelling. Okay.

Kat: 28:08

Yeah So,

Val: 28:11

Yeah So yeah, that's really intense. Wow, that's so intense. Yeah. Wow. Yeah last episode We we teased that there is like something with aliens.

Kat: 28:19

right?

Val: 28:20

and so there's this it's kind of moving into mainstream topic of conversation, right, because these different governments, like our government and the Mexico government are like saying, Hey, there's some, there's some shit going on that we haven't been talking about and we're going to talk about it somewhat. And so I've been following someone for a little while who like channels a,

Kat: 28:40

uh,

Val: 28:41

I don't know how to technically you could call them an alien, but what they're describing themselves as is a. A higher frequency being who wants to help in the ascension of the earth, right? And so this person is just a person like Miryu who's channeling this higher frequency being, maybe an alien, right? To give us like, like little pep talks, like, Hey, here, if you do these things, you'll raise your vibration. And then. We'll get to like move the whole earth to this place where we can create the kind of lives that we all like dream about, right? Where we have eliminated like unnecessary suffering, where we're not under the thumb of capitalism and oppressive systems that more and more of us, all of us get to be free the way instinctively we know we should be able to be in the world. Right? So anyway, wow. Yeah. What a teaser. Well, and so one of my, my big mushroom trips, like, like something felt like made contact with me. Oh, yes. That was the thing. That was the thing. I was like, Oh my God, what the fuck is this? And so I've been working through my own resistances to that, my own biases with that. And like, what the fuck do I want to do with this? And I don't know, like, like, Oh my God, am I just going to be like, Oh no, like now I'm like one of the crazy people in the shows I watch. I'm like, Oh fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Damn it. What the fuck did I do? Like, whoops!

Kat: 29:58

an

Val: 29:59

That was an accident, fuckers! Like, shit! Like, you became a, not a guru, but like, I became a guru on accident. Yeah, I'm just following my highest enthusiasm. Next thing I know, I'm like, Oh, I think I'm channeling aliens. They're nice.

Kat: 30:13

though.

Val: 30:14

But when we were Pentecostal, we were channeling the Holy Spirit, so why am I so fucking freaked out now, right? Oh, I think we were talking through polos and you were like, I'm not talking about aliens through micro polo video messaging. But I was, but then I was like. The brat I am I was like can you just tell me like, okay, were they nice? Were they like, oh Catherine you so great or like were they did they have a message like was it peace and love? And you were like, yeah kind of yeah, I know again I had to work through a lot of stuff to not be like, well, that's the thing. It's very different It feels very outside of what was It's normalized to me, like, in our subculture, in our upbringing, in mainstream culture, like, like, channeling other beings is like a weird thing. That's weird, right? It's crazy, right? If the TV's talking to you, you are crazy, right? Yes. And so, like, the TV has been talking to me, right? Just in a way that, like, it's reflecting.

Kat: 31:12

things to me that I've been learning about, right? And so I'm like, wow, this is so amazing.

Val: 31:17

So yeah, yeah, we've been talking about like how similar and yet how different we are. And as you were talking about this, like double helix or out of the infinity DNA thing. I can always find the thread that like keeps us like tethered. Like, yes, you know, so much of my work with people is like the radical acceptance and the control and then, and then the play. And so when you were talking about like coming out of trauma and then coming out in some, acceptance and play and I think those are sort of the threads that the information is good information. It's just a weird, not exactly mainstream way to get the information. Well, and it's definitely more fun, isn't it, than sitting there and talking to your therapist about like, well, I really think you need to have this concept. Well, you've already talked about those concepts. Yeah. And now you're like. On a trip, like experience. And I think the, I think what the mushrooms are doing is having me experience it on the fucking collective levels. Right. And I don't know, like there's something in me and you probably relate to this too, but this desire to be of service to humanity. That's the way we were fucking in ministry. Right. We're like, Oh, Jesus is going to help us all. Right. And so now I'm like, you know. Jesus in his time was probably like an awakened master, right? And then Christianity turns into this other sort of weird controlling thing that I don't really jive with that anymore, but Jesus Yeshua, Christ energy. I mean New Age circles are saying all that shit too, right? They love Jesus. They really do. Really? Oh, yeah. Interesting. They just you know, Christianity took it in this whole thing. They tried to control the narrative, right? But in like new age circles, people are going to be like, yeah, there's Buddha, there's Jesus. All the different doors. Yeah. There's again, humanity is incredibly diverse. And so there's, if you look at it as we're all consciousness, having the fun of various experiences, the more varied, the better. And then there's a million paths to sort of follow your highest enthusiasm to get to the place where you're like free from oppression, where you're free to be your most unique Youself, right? And so as I'm on my own journey, like the most free, unique self, me is a fucking weirdo. Like super fucking weird. We were on the drama team. We always knew we were weirdos a little. Oh my gosh, yeah. But I had to do a lot of work around the like, how giving myself permission to be like, yeah, this is the shit I'm into. And that's okay. Yeah. I don't expect anyone else to be into it. Yeah. And also. Our background in Christianity, we were like fucking taught to proselytize, right? We were like, you gotta believe what I believe, otherwise you're fucking going to hell. That mushroom trip was hell. Like, that's what the low vibration is. There's lots of people talking about like, we create hell in our present reality, right? When we don't like lovingly reconcile ourself to our own internal dark. Or find a way to heal through compassion the traumas we've experienced. Then we perpetuate an experience of hell. But healing lifts us up out of that. And so the other thing is that people are talking about, like, you can experience heaven, right? You can experience all of the good and all of the beauty here in this projected reality until you get to die and go figure out whatever the heck is really on the other side of all this. Yeah. You were talking about Experiencing the mushroom trip. It reminds me that they did some research and this is very loose information but that You know, we try to work very Western thought we work with the brain and our thoughts and not our bodies and things but that Imagining like I do this a lot with yes

Kat: 34:58

What's

Val: 34:58

term worst case scenario,

Kat: 34:59

Yeah. Catastrophizing.

Val: 35:01

catastrophizing that our brain is already imagining the worst.

Kat: 35:04

Right.

Val: 35:05

And dropping all those chemicals in your body. So, so a way to combat that is to actually actively imagine the best case scenario happening and how imagining actually gets to parts of the brains that, that like logic or the thought reasoning cannot get to and it can actually have those changes. So. Thank you. So that's just like still talk therapy still like imagination. So how much more the chemicals that are getting in your brain? Very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Oh, man.

Kat: 35:35

That's some big stuff.

Val: 35:36

Okay, one of the things that the mushrooms helped me see, yes, because I continue to want to be free. And one of the ways that I was not experiencing freedom and was anticipating you know, worst case scenario was around money.

Kat: 35:48

Okay.

Val: 35:49

Okay. So that's why I decided that's what I wanted us to talk about today. Yeah. And you pointed out that we did how many 30 episodes and never talked about money. Yeah. That's wild. Yeah. So let's, let's just talk about money. Let's demystify it. Right. So money is an amplifying energy that exists in the world. Right. It amplifies. So in my own story, I was raised part of the like working poor blue collar class of people in the Midwest. We were in Toledo, Ohio. We, We, we just didn't have anything extra and I just grew up knowing not to ask for shit. Knowing to not have, like you're talking about the imagination, like I, again, there was additional trauma in my childhood. And so most of my childhood, I now understand that I was just numb, like I turned off and then when I was in my Early teens, I had a conversion experience with the Pentecostals, and it felt like the light switch was turned on, right, after being turned off, and so spirituality then started to be my highest enthusiasm, because it was the first thing that, like, turned the light of me, just turned it on, you know, and for a long time, it felt like, well, thank you, Jesus, that was because of Jesus, and then You know, our stories have evolved and so now it's just, I would say, more eclectically spirituality has been that for me. So I ended up getting married to someone whose relationship with money was not full of scarcity like mine was, right? And so I just abdicated everything to my former spouse. And now that I'm, you know, no longer with someone who's like going to work and covering the bills. I was trying to figure out, like, I'm gonna have to fucking lean in and face this and it, it felt really scary. But once, once like the mushroom helped me, like it really did, it was like there's talk therapy and I knew that money made me feel anxious and I was like, I want to be free from this anxiety. coalesced.

Kat: 37:41

circumstances coalesced.

Val: 37:44

And I had to do the thing that I talk about us doing, right, where you like, you sit down with yourself and you look yourself square in the face and you're as honest as you can possibly be, right? And so as I'm doing that around the issue of money, I realized, Oh my God, I've been afraid my whole life of money. And then.

Kat: 38:05

And then

Val: 38:06

again, those years that I was married, I got to experience like, I don't know, kind of a modest middle class experience, right? But I didn't

Kat: 38:14

actively

Val: 38:15

have the power. I wasn't empowered, right? Everything was like asking for permission and like, you know what I mean? And then, so I kind of just was like, go with the flow and always like, you know. A couple times like we had like conflict about something that I felt like really strongly. This is the thing I want to do, but it costs too much money and then that became a whole thing. Anyway, so.

Kat: 38:39

I

Val: 38:40

I realized that I, that fear was like the bedrock of that. Okay, so there's the, the childhood stuff and then you add to that Christianity's, you know, the love of money is the root of all evil, right? So there was tons of propaganda, again, telling me to stay small, to, to limit my imagination with like, my relationship with, with money wasn't just like how am I going to pay the bills? It was like, I couldn't even imagine wealth, like I could not. Imagine being wealthy and it was really interesting to me. So then I ended up signing up. I realized that I've been afraid of money and I like the next day I find out about a course where these two women are teaching, teaching financial literacy to other women. Right? And I was like, Oh my God, the universe. Thank you. So then there's a, they talk about some books that they want you to read. They have their own curriculum. They do a whole a couple, several lessons all about like our emotional, spiritual relationship with money. And I'm reading these books about it and it's just helping open me up, right? It's the allowing myself to imagine a different way of being a different relationship with money. And I really, I don't know that I could have gotten all the way underneath it without the help of the mushrooms, right? Right, because they help with the pain that might be surrounding that. Also, I think our subconscious is really good at like hiding stuff from us because it's too scary. Yeah, protective. Sure. And then so, you know in our culture money means survival. Yeah. And so I, I just was afraid and then the mushrooms helped me like get past those I don't know why our brains do it, but they had, I had these like roadblocks. I couldn't see the truth of it until the.

Kat: 40:19

The

Val: 40:19

The psychedelics helped me get to the full truth of it, right? And then as soon as I was able to like own my whole truth, there's deep fear here Suddenly support just immediately showed up. It was beautiful. And then around that time I was like, okay well, I need a way to earn a little more money Like you know my kid's dad does pay some amount in child support, but then I'm responsible to cover the rest. And I have this conviction about like not doing anything I don't want to do. Yes, you do. I know, but it feels very like a spiritual practice and difficult in our culture. Yeah. It felt really important to me. I was like, well, if the universe. is really going to support me then I'm going to figure out what I can do that is fun and that feels good where I just, it feels spacious, right? And so When you say spacious in this context, what do you mean? Well, what I mean is I would think about various jobs I could get, right? And some of them made me feel tight and restrictive and, and like, it felt bad in my body. You know? Like, I could do any number of things just to earn a paycheck, but if it, if it made me feel tight in my body or dread, right, the feeling of dread I don't want to get up in the morning and not want to go to work. That feels. Like some, I don't want to have to push myself to do that. I have had those experiences. I absolutely did all that shit too in my life, but there's a conviction in me that I don't think that's how I'm supposed to live, right? I want to be free. So if all the shit I've been playing in is, is real for me, then there's gotta be a solution that involves spaciousness, that

Kat: 41:52

involves spaciousness,

Val: 41:54

feeling of like, Oh, I want to, this is fun to me. Right? Yes. Can I, can I say, I love that you just said that, cause you know, I'm sort of like, not your devil's advocate cause that's like a nasty game, but like really, I'm like, okay, Kat, fine. Yeah. You only do what you want to do. Like we've had this funny banter on the podcast, but I love what you just said, which helps it click in my brain is that you were looking for a solution. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like, Oh yeah. I'm actively engaged in the process. Right. Like that there, you're only going to do what you feel is spacious.

Kat: 42:25

Yeah.

Val: 42:26

But you're looking for a solution, right? Yeah. Oh yeah, because, you know, I absolutely can see where you could take these concepts and then just be like, Yeah, I'm just... I'm not going to engage, right? Yeah. Or, or if I don't find something spacious, I'm not going to do anything. Yeah. And then that doesn't seem like real life to me. But I would say you might even saying what feels the most spacious for what I can find right now. Oh yeah. And just again, like all we have is the present moment. So in this present moment, right? Yeah. But. There's this, the tension of, I want to pay my bills and take good care of my children. So I'm going to play the game of extending beyond the present moment and being like, I've got to bring in some money to keep my household afloat within the culture that we live in, in this simulation. Okay. So what happened is I've been driving around this old minivan for a long time. I've had it the whole time I was married and I just stopped wanting to drive this car. And I was like, I want. a new car. If I got a new car, I could drive for Lyft. Okay, so literally, I get the idea to get a new car. And I am, I realize if I'm gonna be able to get a car loan, I'm probably gonna need a co-signer'cause I don't have any work history and my ex-husband's not gonna co-sign a loan for me So I have like this amazing great family friend who I just one day was like, Hey, will you like put your name on the dotted line for like, you know, thousands of dollars of like alone But also I was like, well, the universe wants to support me and so I. They set up a GoFundMe and I got like a thousand dollars in like two or three days. People that just love me that have known me. I'm like, hey, I'm we're in a state of transition. I'm basically starting over. I referenced that in our last podcast. Like I really feel like In some ways I'm starting from zero, but it's not zero because I have so much wealth of like, again, self awareness and healing and all these different things, right? My aliveness feels very bright, like probably brighter than it's ever been in my life. And so this is the thing that I want to do. I want a new car. And I'm going to pay for the new car by driving for a lift. That sounds fucking fun to me. So the pandemic, like most of our circles, social circles got smaller and you and I are pretty gregarious social people. And so I was like, Oh my God, I'm getting paid money to socialize and drive people around. I actually enjoy driving around. And then we live in the most beautiful part of the world, right? Like the Bay Area is gorgeous. So. I'm in, like, my, like, city, but I'm discovering, like, new nooks and crannies, I'm having, like, fun adventures, I'm having, like, incredible conversations with people, and then people fuckin love to tip me, like, on the app it talks about, like, the average amount that someone makes for driving in our area, and I'm clearing way more than that, because I'm just being me. I'm just being me who's like, oh my god, I'm having a great day today, how are you doing

Kat: 45:19

yeah,

Val: 45:19

you know? And I only do it when I want to. And I'm making enough money to like, pay my bills and I'm literally only doing it when I want to and I'm like, holy shit, you know, even the process of like getting the new car and I'm so grateful to my friend who like helped me, you know, and did the co signing like we went together to go buy the car. It was really interesting because I, I thought I had to get like the cheapest car I could possibly get. So we go there, we drive a car. I wanted to get a Prius for the good gas mileage. And and then because it was more than 10 years old, I couldn't get a very good APR on a loan and I have good credit and then my friend has like, he's got like excellent credit, like the best credit you could possibly have. And so they're telling me what the like terms of the loan are and I was like, no, you need to do better. Like I have good credit. He has excellent credit. Like I brought a co signer in here because I wanted a good APR. It's like I'm not paying for that. And then the guy sort of looked. dumbfounded. And so he's explaining to me that the, the the, the banks don't want to give out a loan for a car that's more than 10 years old. And I was like, okay, I'm going to look at cars that are, you know, not 10 years old. And then, so it was interesting. I didn't know where that came from. I didn't anticipate that, but like, that wasn't good enough. Like they, and I was like, I deserve better, right? Like I deserve a better rate. Like you better fucking give me a great rate. It surprised me. And then they go and they do their thing and I'm like talking to my friend who's there with me and I was like, well, I don't really know where that came from, but you know, and then I ended up getting a car that I just love so much and the color's pretty and I just, I'm like, Oh my God, that's amazing. I just. keep following the thing that feels the most shiny, right? And recognizing when I actually want something. Again, my childhood, I lived most of that numb. I had a hard time knowing what the fuck I wanted. The lights got turned on because I went to this Pentecostal church. I felt called to the ministry and I followed that. But a lot of that was still other in within the religion in that worldview, other things project onto me of what I wanted. You know what I mean? So So now I've had to deconstruct almost every fucking part of my life and when I say like the mushrooms part of the dying is good, that's what I mean. I mean we're fucking programmed all the way up to like from our, you know, our, Toenails all the way to the top hair on our head. We're full of messaging, right? Yeah about this is the way it should be and these are things but when we do the inside work to figure out what the Fuck do I actually want and then we start to try to move our life forward where we're centering our own Experiences we're centering our actual pleasure and our actual joy and and learning, you know how to live authentically It's kind of amazing That is amazing So, what do you think the biggest change for you is about money I'm not afraid of it anymore. Okay, and I have this good friend who so I start learning this stuff. I start doing the work And, and just realizing where some of these messages came from and then again, like letting go of a belief system that just doesn't serve me. So scarcity doesn't serve any of us, right? That fear because you're anticipating and I still see a little remnants here and I just gently, when I feel those thoughts come up, I just gently acknowledge them and then say, okay, but that's not what we're doing anymore. Now we're doing this other thing of like, I believe that everything that I need is going to show up for me. I'm also really fortunate in that, like, I do have my art store. So that's passive income, right? So I can drive for Lyft just when I want to. I got like a paid speaking gig last month and I'm like, things are just working out without me having to hustle, without me having to like,

Kat: 48:56

don't know.

Val: 48:57

Harm. Myself. Yeah. Yeah. Hustle. Yeah. Hustle is usually. Yeah. Has some harm to it, doesn't it? To our wellbeing. And then there's this, this sort of sense of like, you know, it feels scary because of our messaging, because of the programming to believe that we can actually lean in and rest into the universe supports us. Right? That feels very scary. We used to feel that way when it was God. I was so, I had a lot of access to childlike faith, like, Oh my God, God said this is what we're going to do. This is what we're you know what's interesting is there's a verse, right? That I, that I would always quote to people about consider the lilies of the field. Like the flowers, the birds, they're taken care of by nature. Like they're the thing that the lilies were more beautifully dressed than King Solomon and all his, right. And, and that like for, for a very anxious, worried person, I feel like that was kind of what you're saying. Like rest into the universe, rest into God rested, like that there is. provision out there for you and that is a powerful reframe. Well, here's the other thing, in our culture it's like, it's all gotta be money, like abundance is, I got a lot of money in the bank, but abundance is actually more than that. It's about having community, right? Abundance is more than just money. Right now, there was a crisis point in the summer where I was like, it felt like a free fall, like, I do not know where any of this is gonna come together. Our culture is like prideful about stuff. Like we don't want to ask for help, right? And that's dumb, right? We do need one another I'm allowed to ask for support. I'm allowed to like, reach out to my landlady and say, hey it's tight. Can I pay a reduced amount for three months? And I've been in the same place for 15 years and she knows me and she was like, yes. And then I had the idea about the car and it was like, there was this It was a window of time where it was like, I just did the next thing that made sense to me to try. I put out the GoFundMe thing and I was like, is all the money for the car going to come? Am I going to have to get a loan? And then what came in was like about a thousand dollars and I was like, okay well then that I had the trade in value and so I had enough for a good dumb payment and then I had again ask for help, right? And so like there's the both and of

Kat: 51:13

I

Val: 51:14

am going to take responsibility for the truth about my life. The truth is I have been afraid of money.

Kat: 51:20

I've

Val: 51:20

I've been afraid to have it, to hold it, to want it. I was afraid to want it Val, as though that was a somehow. Like I couldn't be a spiritual person and be someone who wanted money, right? That was just programming. That was a lie I don't need to live that way. And so I had to like deconstruct that stuff. I had to die I had to kill the Catherine that thought she couldn't fucking have money. Okay, and then so I take that class I get some support. I asked my friends for help with the GoFundMe and then I asked Ask a particular like kind amazing friend to be my co signer and he's so brave and wonderful and he did that with me. And then I get the car and I have to learn a new thing. I have to like download this app and I start have to like drive people around and it's there's a learning curve and it was uncomfortable that first little bit and I kept reminding myself of like, Oh, this is just the learning edge. Like don't get discouraged, Catherine, right? Like the app is a little bit complex. Once you get the hang of it, super fun and easy. Yeah. Right. And then like. Learning the the etiquette of like letting strangers in your car. That's an unusual experience. Yeah, you just sort of adjust to you

Kat: 52:23

it.

Val: 52:23

Do they want to talk do they want to some do some don't that's totally fine, right? I don't make everyone talk to me anyway And so and then my I have a friend a good brilliant amazing friend who we do mushrooms together sometimes and we love talking about all this like metaphysical cosmology shit like it's So, so fun. And so we were like, well, how's the universe going to support us? Where's the energy? What's the thing that feels fun? And we're like, we should just win

Kat: 52:46

lottery.

Val: 52:47

And then we're like, Oh my God, let's play the lottery. So then we're doing all these like, so we decided. That we were going to play the lotto as a spiritual practice. I

Kat: 53:00

know!

Val: 53:00

Isn't that hilarious? Okay, so, I love it so much, it makes me so happy. So there's three of us playing the lotto, and we, every time, it's the imagination thing that you were talking about, right? Mm. So at first, the first few times we played, it felt like a crisis to imagine winning a shit ton of money because I really, I had to do a lot of internal work to expand my ability to even conceive of having wealth and or holding wealth, which is really interesting. And so every time we play, it feels like I'm winning something because I'm like, I'm growing my capacity. It almost feels like, you know, how You start working out in the gym and your lungs have more capacity the more you do like cardiovascular work. It felt literally like that. It felt like, like, it felt difficult at first to even imagine Like saying that I want to win the lotto like that's so strange that was hard to say it But it was hard to say I want to win the lottery. I want to be a millionaire. That's fucked up crazy It was so hard for me to say but I got there and then I was like Okay, and then I started to be like, how would I be of service? anD I started in, in inviting really creative thought again from sort of a higher realm, if you will, of like, how could I be of service with this kind of money? And then I also had to do this thing of like, what if I gave away no money? Like I was doing, I was coming at it from every possible angle. angle to just expand my capacity to engage with wealth to say, I want wealth. I deserve wealth. I'm allowed to have wealth. I can be wealthy. I can win the fucking lotto. So my friend and I are probably going to do a podcast where we're like, how to win the lotto, playing the lottery as a spiritual practice, because yeah, we live in capitalism and more and more people are waking up to the fact that we don't want to be slaves to capitalism. So let's win some fucking money. Let's all win. The. fucking lottery, right? Let's redo it all. Yeah. As a spiritual practice. Isn't that hilarious? Like people like shit on the lotto. Like you're like, Oh my God, all the suckers are playing the lotto because the stats are so wrong. or so minuscule, yet a person did win the lotto, right? And you expand your creativity, you expand your imagination, like, like if someone is out in the world doing something amazing that you are like, I could never do that. Why? A person is doing that, right? Someone you can see alive in the world at the same time as you is actually doing that. Why can't you too, right? So I'm playing the game of life. I decided it could be me. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. You know, as you're talking, I'm thinking of my own story. I grew up very probably very working blue class blue, blue collar, middle class with no extras. I don't. think I ever, at least my parents, I never knew that like it was hard to put food on the table or anything like that. But there was like, don't ask to go on the extra field trip. Don't ask for like your Letterman jacket or I actually did get my Letterman jackets, but you know, like that had, that was a giant deal. And I think growing up in around the church and money and it being, but it also says the love of money is the root of all evil, right? Not money. I remember, I think if we were, it was when we, cause you know, if you know us, we went to this thing about Bible college, hearing a missionary's wife say that how difficult it was around money for them cause they had to raise their funds to go. Right. So they're asking people support me and someone had given her used clothing, but it was nice used clothing and how, and I think there was even like a fur coat, which now, I mean, but I Like nice or this let's even say designer clothes and when she wore them to church people. Yeah I got in big trouble scorned because how dare she right and she's like, you know I didn't even pay and they don't know how like we have no money But you know, so you weren't even allowed to be blessed or or I gifted things by other people, right? Yeah, so there was some of that and we just we didn't have extras and You know, I think we were taught to tithe, right? 10 percent to the church. I remember getting my little allowance of like 2 and tithing 20 cents. Right. And being I remember praying for our family to get a new car. But as an adult, you know, I spent my twenties in San Francisco, very expensive place, and then we got married and, you know, my husband's an immigrant to this country and, but an entrepreneur and.

Kat: 57:25

and

Val: 57:26

You know, we paid off debt very quickly, had no debts. And then after several years, his business starts to be very successful and profitable. And I remember being so shocked and also like embarrassed or like shy, shy is probably the best word. Sure. Okay. Yeah. But I was even saying to you, like one of the things that I've been. Well, bringing me pleasure and pain is that I'm, I'm learning to drive the boat, but it's a smaller boat than the other boat. And I was like, I don't even want to say that we have a boat on the podcast, right? Cause boat means there's some kind of money unless someone gave it to you. Right.

Kat: 58:04

Anyway, we

Val: 58:04

ended up having these BMWs that I'll be, Oh my gosh. Like. The cars that we drove is like our family. It was like it was falling apart, right? Right. We had a little Ford that they don't even make anymore. I was embarrassed to like bring it to work Mm hmm and be like that when you had a nice car you were embarrassed to drive it to work. Mm hmm Yeah, it felt too like showy or like It could be I was working for a non profit But again, right like what and it was like my husband's business partner that wanted the BMWs to release like we didn't even want that Yeah, but there's yeah, there's like some like shyness. I don't know that I was saying I couldn't see myself I think there was a big fear of it all disappearing not being able to hold on to it and that Emotional impact. Right. So I had a lot of fear. I had, I had tons of yeah, anxiety and I think actually it was you helped me with like the control, the illusion of control. Cause I was like, even my friends knew, I was like, I just wish my husband had like a w two form. Like he worked for a company, that's a very big illusion of control. Yeah. Right. And so it's funny how the thing I wished for, because I thought it would give me safety, wouldn't have given us the life that I think we're leading now. And so just that illusion of control. So once I gave up that like, oh yeah, W2 is an illusion of control. He could get laid off. The company could like, go bankrupt or their stock prices go down, whatever. And I think it's wild because we live in the Bay Area where tech money is like above

Kat: 59:30

and beyond, like,

Val: 59:31

all these things. So anyway. Once I was able to give up the illusion of control then and really go to that place of like safety of like, so what? So what if it happens? Like, I'll

Kat: 59:43

Yeah, like

Val: 59:44

be okay. Yeah. We will be okay. We'll be okay. That distress tolerance, we will be okay. It's not the end of the world that that felt like the end of the world thing for me. If that, if that we were to like lose it or whatever. Yeah. But you know, some of my updates that I didn't give last time. It's so funny. We're talking about this is about money. And as you're talking. Well, anyway, first let me say you know, I talked a lot about my relationship last season. So I feel like I don't want to be one of those, like, you know, Facebook couples or Instagram where all of a sudden, like, they're just like, all the pictures are gone. Like they're not, I mean, Rafiq, my husband is still around. I just hugged him. He's grown his hair out. He looks very handsome. And I, it's funny cause he drove for Uber back in the day. I remember that. Yeah. He had a great time. It was also a thing that he loved to talk to people,

Kat: 1:00:30

um,

Val: 1:00:31

but, and he came down here and he told you how he's like, you know following his dreams of like being more of an entertainer. He said to me.

Kat: 1:00:40

He

Val: 1:00:41

said, babe, you can't let me change if I get super famous,

Kat: 1:00:48

Like, okay. He's

Val: 1:00:49

like, okay, do you think I changed after like, you know, we got some more money and I'm like, no, I don't think you have. He's like, okay. He's like, but he's like so earnest. Like you have to tell me if I change. I'm like, don't worry. Yeah. Don't worry. We're good at that. I'm good. I think that's interesting messaging. Like, okay. Even like the whole like idea of like Jenny from the block, right? Like the idea that you're not allowed to be different than you were once you've achieved some level of success. Well, I have, I don't know that that serves any of us, right? Sure. We're constantly evolving. It's one of our questions, right? How are you changing? How are you evolving? And so like we're allowed to evolve like I think because our, our culture perpetuated such a, a contentious relationship with money that once you have money, we're like, Oh, you can't change. But like, Actually, everything being more spacious, like you having access to things and things being easy, like it would probably impact us. It's okay. Ah. So yeah. So you're talking about, yeah, positive change. Like, yeah, you could be less stressed. Right. Right. Because even in couples counseling, like they did some studies that what, what a lot of couples need is just more money. Yeah, that would help their marriage more than like right Counseling, I think if they could like also drop the scarcity because like you're saying because you can have access to more money But then the fear of losing it. That's the piece Right. And so like again when we do the internal work that like no matter what happens, I know that i'm good in here I'm good on the inside. Yeah, and like in in any given Moment i'm i'm going to be okay. I am okay. And then, you know, the road will bend in some way and we'll just, we'll navigate it then. Yeah.

Kat: 1:02:26

So

Val: 1:02:26

I don't know if Rafiq is famous before me or you, I think whatever, like whatever evolution comes with that could just be beautiful. Right. This is why I love you, Catherine, because I, when I hear what I go directly to the, to the negative, where I think he's like, I don't want to become an asshole. Yeah. And. He does a great job of that on his own. He

Kat: 1:02:49

so he left

Val: 1:02:50

two group chats. Our friends are just trying to share pictures with us and on WhatsApp. It's like Rafiq has left the chat and they're like, well, what the hell? I'm just trying to share pictures of my son's birthday with you. You left the chat. He innately doesn't need to participate in niceties, which I respect. Now, I, I, I used to be more like, fuck you both. I know.

Kat: 1:03:10

I know.

Val: 1:03:11

Oh, I'm so sorry. Getting one message from someone that you really love with a picture with the face of a child having a donut on their birthday. Oh, sorry. I know. We just don't have to do anything we don't want to do, which is a kind of beautiful freedom, right? Okay, but that freedom might also ruin your relationship if your, if your name is Rafiq. Fuck you and your freedom. That's what I have to say right now. No, I, get it. Like there is a part of like, yeah, it's great to live in that freedom. Right. There are also consequences like. You know, it's more difficult to keep up with friendships if you're always leaving the group chat, right?

Kat: 1:03:53

Like

Val: 1:03:54

They might just be like, well sorry I'm not gonna share anything with you anymore. But then if you don't care, it doesn't matter. Yeah, but freedom. I actually think freedom And I don't know that we talked about this in the podcast about ADHD. We talked about rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria and how that can come into play. Right. There's another one that is kind of

Kat: 1:04:11

a

Val: 1:04:11

trait that comes through with autism and ADHD. about this? Persistent. Demand avoidance PDA. Yes, but the technical term Pathological demand avoidance. Yes is is the technical term which sounds negative. Yeah, and some advocates changed it or suggested persistent demand for autonomy. Ooh, persistent demand

Kat: 1:04:34

autonomy. I knew

Val: 1:04:34

you'd love it, fucker. It's so much better. I know, it is. That's me. Yes. Yeah. And, and just working with clients also on this and, and how it comes so much of that freedom. If you're into Enneagram, like the Enneagram 7, they need freedom or they feel like they're going to die. Right. And that was where my thing is like, well, like just compromise a little bit with me about the freedom you want to go see your homeland, which I understand, to run your business now to become famous. And I think, did I say on the podcast where one day he's like, well, those two just like our friends, those two just need to compromise more. They'll be happy. And I'm like, Oh, like us. And then he's like, well, I'm always breaking the compromise. So he kind of told on himself. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. And I don't understand if you love me. As much as I think you do, if we have as much fun and enjoy our life as I think we do, why are you, I actually said this the other day, do you want to tell people we're getting divorced because you don't want to go to Brazil every six weeks instead of every three weeks? So my journey, and I think I even said this when we were recording the podcast, I'm like, life is going pretty well right now. Like you're in like the depths, you're in the low vibrations, you're healing. And I'm like, I actually think I'm happy. The pandemic made him stay home more. I'm like, this is good. And then shortly after we stopped the podcast, it was, it was hard. Cause I was like, Oh, I'm getting much clearer about what exactly it is and what I need and that. Freedom thing really kicked in with him or even I've had clients tell me and and I think he's even said it that like Will you make all the decisions? Do

Kat: 1:06:06

mm hmm. Like, motherfucker, do

Val: 1:06:08

you think that I decide you go to you you're away as much as you are no But if it it's like if I suggest something if it doesn't come from within him, yes. Yes. Yes, then it's somebody else's idea Right. Yeah, and it's just it's just Not true. Like it's not, I understand his, his perception, but like, if I just suggest it because I say it before you, or because I'm like trying to run the calendar or keep our friends, you also like the idea, but if it doesn't originate inside of them, if there's demands you make on them, then it's like. It's the, so if you do the Gretchen Rubin, the four tendencies, it's the rebel thing. Right. So I've started to say this to him, your freedom. I know that your freedom is incredibly important to you and you want it to be able to do and go whenever. And that feels like your, your liveliness is like, I can do whatever I want whenever I want it. But you need to remind yourself, If you want this relationship, I am giving up a bit of that freedom for the great things that I have here and that I also desire. And I'm like, I have said no to very little, but I am also getting very clear about what I want and what I need.

Kat: 1:07:17

And,

Val: 1:07:18

and you said it, and then one of the, the best frontier friends said it too, where you were talking about how you feel in my biosphere. Yeah. Right. And, and we've talked about biospheres and just people's energies and just that how you enjoyed how you feel. Yeah. And what, how you allow yourself to be in my biosphere and the fun we have, basically. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Layman's terms, I know you have like a glorious biosphere. Biosphere and like being near you and being in relationship with you and like conversation, the way we're doing the podcast there is, it sparks something beautiful and I love it. And I love it. And of course Rafik loves it too. Yeah, he does. But this biosphere shouldn't be alone Right. As much as you know Yeah. As it is, right. Yeah. And I, I enjoy that. I can't control like when other people are around. Right. And like the expectations I have on him as my family, because we don't have a children or we don't have a lot of extended family. I'm like, you are my family. And so very interesting, like that conversation. And then my other friend was like, yeah, like you, you're not meant to be this alone. Like you, she goes, your energy that you bring is like resort energy. That's the best. thing I've ever heard. That's really true. It's like you bring resort energy and then like this friend was kind of going through some stuff with some friends and I just kind of, you know, saw the puzzle and was like, Oh, and then she was like, Oh my gosh, that helps me so much. And so it's like resort and it's like a healing resort energy. I was just going to say like a therapist who brings resort energy is.

Kat: 1:08:45

Fucking amazing. What

Val: 1:08:46

the hell is that? That's beautiful. Well done. I'm writing that down. Good job, Valerie. By the way, my 11 year old, is exactly the same way, and it was such an interesting journey as a parent to be like, This kid will not do anything until they get individual buy in that it has to be their own idea. And I was like, Whoa. And then later I heard about, you know, the pathological demand avoidance. And then tell me again, the persistent demand for autonomy, that's my kid. And then, and then as I heal. This is the fucking thing, man. I say it. I, I see myself in my children so much. It's really, really interesting. And I'm getting to raise them. They experienced their parents separating, but they are not traumatized children. They're well adjusted. They're well loved there. They're supported with loving community. And so I'm getting to see what I could have maybe been like, like if, if I didn't have all the trauma. Oh, it makes me want to cry just a little bit, like, I'm watching my child who has, like, all the neurodiversity, all the creativity, all of the, like, the beauty, right? And she's got her own set of like challenges, like she feels anxious about some things and you know, and I think it's because there's a lot of demands put on her at school, right? And so like, that's been one of the arguments with her, her other parent and I about like, how much time can she just stay home to reset because she needs to reset and she's communicating her needs to me and I need her to know that like, when you say your need to me. It is fucking heard. I'm not going to be like, shove that shit down, kid. Right. Cause I experienced that. Right. And so it's just so interesting that we, I'm doing the work as an adult to reparent myself the way I'm reparenting my own beautiful children. Right. Yeah. Giving them. Yeah, autonomy and teaching them like to trust themselves, right? I said that in the last podcast like the main thing I need them to know is that you're the boss of you fuckers Yeah, and that means they're allowed to say no to me, right? Yeah, it's really interesting And so it's interesting as you navigate your relationship with Rafiq where you're like how much give and take exists It's when we want to have close, intimate, personal relationship with someone whose desire for autonomy requires yeah, a little bit of compromise, a little bit of like, you know. Let's like your autonomy is like, I don't want to be completely autonomous. My truth is that I need community. I've got resort energy. Let's go. You know? Yeah. But I like my own family of origin stuff, my own grief, the grief of like my father dying young the grief of just some dysfunction or scar scarcity in, in, in extended family. Yeah. Oh, right. Yeah. Like I really did. I was like, I want more closeness. Like I didn't have the 15 cousins and the holidays being bursting. Like if my house was always bursting at the seams, I would be very happy. Right. So the church, like those years at the church were so good and cause my house was always bursting at the seams. Right. There's also like, there's also some spaciousness in my life because, because of how it is, right? And I can get to take care of my body, which has some difficulties. But there's some family stuff, I think for him too, you know but I guess just being more real about what I think I need and then not being afraid of that outcome. Cause I've said to him very clearly, if that is what you need, if you really need that, then you need to go and do that. But there's a limit of like what I think. I can handle as far as like, yeah, go do your thing. Right. And, and, and figuring it out. And when you were like, just a little bit of compromise, I was just like, motherfucker, I have been compromising my ass off. And it's like, well, yeah, and

Kat: 1:12:35

it's like, yeah. And that's, and

Val: 1:12:36

that's been your journey, right? Like, that's the thing again, like, again, we're fucking conditioned as fem people in the world. Right. And then. It takes some time for us sometimes to get our voice loud enough so that we're being heard by the people that need to fucking hear us and we're good at reading people's fucking mind and then you're like, I'm not doing this shit anymore, right? Yeah. Oh my God. I don't. So a lot of my interpersonal relationships have have just gone away. And so I have a much tighter nucleus of people and any new relationships that I engage in, I just cannot bear to fuck with someone who is not a self aware enough to say, this is what I need. This is what I want and to not be easily offended. Right. And then the other thing that I noticed is that I. In relationship with people, I champion them centering themselves. So it's the like, Hey, do you want to do this with me? And I really want to do a thing with them. And they're like, no, that doesn't feel good in my body. I'm going to go do this. And I'm like, Oh my God, good job centering you. Right. It's sincere. And then I can handle my little disappointment that the plan didn't go the way I wanted. Right. But like, if people don't have that fucking skill set, no, thank you. I am done reading minds. I was good at it, Val. Yeah. I don't want to do that anymore. Yeah. I'm not doing all that fucking emotional labor. No. Be a fucking grown up. Go to therapy. Repair yourself. Take some fucking mushrooms. Yeah. Yeah. So where I think it gets tricky is when. You're already in that and you've been the life together and someone's

Kat: 1:14:03

right.

Val: 1:14:03

I said, I said the big joke on the podcast, you could find the episode if you're new is like how he says, like, he's just doing enough. He's not changing for himself because he's like, I want to become a higher, you know, it's because I'm saying, Hey, you're hurting me. Yes. I think this needs to, so he's just doing enough. And then the big joke is like, he's like, well, just enough is like a C. Why would I try harder from getting a C. Right. But I think that there was a part of me that still was back to like the should energy, the should energy of like, should I be in this relationship? Yeah. Because yeah. See all the memes tell telling my clients if they're dating someone like, Hey, this is what you look for. But, but I'm already in this. I mean, I could leave that triggers a whole bunch of money stuff. Right. Because I've also allowed myself. I Think I was brought up in a very independent, a little bit of scarcity kind of mode of like, I'm going to take care of myself I'm not going to rely on anyone else. But I have allowed myself to, to be gentle and to work a little bit less so that the, my body, right. But then, but then that scarcity or that fear, and, I guess I do see growth in that. Well, then if there's a fear that I'm going to be on my own, then that's it. I'm going to be hyper independent. Like I'm going to go out there and just like work super hard to like make this whole big thing when I could just still stay in the, in the rest that I have here. Right. Yeah. And just kind of, you know, have this reactionary thing because same like you, like having my own private practice, I, I knew that I couldn't. Enter the space of being so afraid of not having enough clients. I just couldn't go there because I didn't feel good in my body. And maybe I just see it differently where I'm like I only do what I want to do I think I'm like I can't go there because that doesn't feel good, right? So also I'm not going back to like well, fuck it, you know I'm just gonna get hyper independent in case that I have to be out. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right I'm still staying in this in this The rest that I have and yes manageable, but it almost feels like oh like it depended on someone. I allowed someone to take care of me in a way like right there were years As the business was coming and going that my salary was paying my bills. Unknowns are, again, I don't know if it's the human brain or if it's the culture or a combination of both, but our human brains love to freak out about unknowns. And what I have noticed is that when we create a safe space inside, we were like, well, the world can be loving because I am loving. Right? And we experience reality through the sieve of our own perception. So in this way, we are God like, right? Everything that passes through my awareness is going through my perception. I am experiencing it. And so the way I experience the world, I actually do have control over, right? We have more control when we heal the trauma, we're not run by programs, right? And so Transcribed by So we, we sort of, again, it's like the distress tolerance, but like you can sort of flip it to mean this other thing of like, I'm, it's just like the money, my ability to Even conceive of holding money of having wealth like I have to like increase my capacity Right, and so we can increase our capacity to believe that the unknown could be lovely. Mm hmm, right? Yeah, again, that is it takes practice. It is a practice. It's a spiritual practice. Yeah of like I'm going to, you have to be nice to yourself on the inside. You have to redirect scarcity thoughts. You have to redirect shoulds, right? And sometimes you give, you heal them, you give them compassion. Sometimes the redirect is, Oh, I just don't want that anymore. And it can just be gone. Like it's, it can be very different nuance to you and your story and your makeup. And you know, so it's so funny that you say that because I feel like last year's podcast, that was one of your big themes was. Like making a home, a piece, a safe home inside myself, right? Yeah. With myself. Yeah. And of course, you know, I'm like, whatever, cat. I mean, in the most loving way, but it's like, yeah, yeah, sure, cat. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that, and again, it's a longer journey to explain, but I think I was realizing like I was feeling abandoned, maybe isn't the right word, but like left or alone, not liking these feelings. And I was like, well, If I decided to, you know, leave my relationship, I was going to be alone. And I, I was starting to put, again, we can ask people to do their own work and also doing our own work. Right. So realizing like, Oh, there's some of the. I feel like you're my family and you're leaving me and, and that's, that, that doesn't feel, that doesn't feel right. But I was like, well, but I still feel like, cause sometimes when I'm, when I'm home too long by myself, and of course I'm like seeing people and pick up also great about that and I have my work, but there's something I really don't like about being alone. Yeah. And I think that I realized, oh, that your, your phrase came to me, like, no matter what I want to feel safe and at home. It's just with myself, right? Even with the recollection of, or the realization of like, oh, why this is upsetting is because I feel like.

Kat: 1:19:16

you know,

Val: 1:19:17

He's my family and then I'm being left by my family and that's where a breakdown is like, okay, we've got to fix that. But then there's something deeper where it's like, okay, I'm not, I'm not promised any family anywhere. Right. And so, so that like feeling at home and safe and like I'm okay just on my own. I felt like that's like my next work to do in that in that area. Yeah. Yeah. So at the moment, compromises are still going, so that feels good. Yeah. But the other thing about money well, updates, I know that I said that One of the reasons why I didn't want to do the podcast so frequently was because it was supposed to be a marketing tool for my business. And I was like, I really need cat more time with my business cat. Don't you understand? Cat? I'm having a hard time gaining traction cat. And You know, I was managing an Airbnb property that we had and we, we sold that and I didn't realize how much that was dysregulating my nervous system every morning, waking up what new level of hell and you know, was, was, what did I have to deal with or what I shouldn't say that loosely, but like it was just. The unknown of like what could happen and what could go wrong is it was just it made hypervigilance in your mind all the time all the time and while it wasn't a lot of Me time or it wasn't difficult. It was difficult my nervous system So just kind of allowing myself to get some time off from that. I took more time, which I've learned from you I took more time than I thought like at first and then I was like, okay, I am not making headway with expanding, like some of the things that I want to do in my business. I'm just going to let it be for a little while and if probably you weren't my friend, I probably would not ever do that. Right. Like that wouldn't be okay. So thank you for that. And I'm just like, I don't know, there's just something inside of me that's like, I do not want to do this in this way. So when you were talking about like kind of finding, finding ways to make things feel Easy or shiny or, or I'm like, maybe, maybe you and I, maybe you can help me to kind of find the path forward. Cause I still come back to, we still want to, I still want to do good in the world and help women on this journey. But I guess I need a different way to do it because the way that's kind of laid out. I am, I'm resisting. Yeah. And some of it some of it might be perimenopause, which I'll tease that. That's, that is a, a subject that is not talked about enough and is just starting to get talked about more and more. Sure. Yeah. Just like, oh, I was gonna say in my journey to money in the churches that, that I was a part of later on, it was okay to have money. It was okay. Right. Yeah, it was. Now that whole stream is getting into big trouble with Hillsong and all of that like, yeah, expense account, you know, bullshits and preachers with sneakers and you know, all of that. But in trouble that's also made up right some people who are still in scarcity they don't like when other people have access to money. It feels like a reason for us to fight like what I had to do was like cancel out all my biases about people with wealth. It's really interesting. I'm not mad at anybody who's got Tons of money. Yeah. I think we're, I think where the problem is, it's like the oppression where it's like, yeah. You know, you're, God told me that I need a new private jet, or like, yes, oppression and manipulation. That's never, never cool, but yeah. Never paying volunteers. Right. And then, and then staff is getting chauffeur around town and Exactly. People are like literally burning out because they've Right. God told them that they need to pay, you know work for free. Yeah. So I think, I think that's the thing, but yeah. Right. Like sure. You can be a pastor and you don't have to be this destitute or take a vow of poverty. Right. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So, so that's where that's kind of my updates. And then also that I feel like it weaved perfectly into like our discussions about money and, and trying to do it in a way that does feel. More spacious. Yeah, and less of the harmful hustle. Well, that's the interesting thing, too When we when we start to do the work to get in touch with what we really want and again in my story I did not know Right because I turn as a child In order to survive I went numb I just turned off and then the first thing that lit me up was Christianity Specifically the Pentecostals right and it turns out it's so funny now like I'm into all this metaphysical shit, right? I have had decades. It was the, it was the pipeline. Here were the pipeline. It's the pipeline. It was decades of like, like playing in metaphysical spaces. Right. And the culture. Mm of like personal prophecy. Mm-hmm. of supernatural healing. Mm-hmm. speaking in tongues. All of that manifestations. All kinds of manifestations. Oh yeah. All of that. And so my work now has been like, like allowing the biases that were really built into that too, about anything that was different. Mm-hmm. for those. to for me to, you know, let them go away. One by one as they come up, I recognize them and I'm like, okay, I don't want that belief anymore. So I just let it go. Right. For beliefs to be water instead of this like rock thing. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. I only pick a belief that serves me, right? That's so fun and weird, right? That's very contrary to stuff, you know, once upon a time. So Val, I want to ask you, like, would you tell me about the pleasure of being on your boat? Okay. Well, okay. There's, there's two different parts of it. Being by the water, I mean, and I think that there's a little bit of shyness about privilege, right? I think That there's still something about and you and I actually, you've talked to me about this too. It's like, well, how does you not enjoying what you have serving other people? Right? So, so that's a great concept for my brain. I love it when other people drive the boat because then I can just be free to enjoy it. The sun. Yeah. The water we went out the other night and there was, it was 85 degrees and the sun was setting and the water was just rippling with different stripes of purple and pink and blue. And we're used to this, the sky being kind of striped, but the water. It was just so amazing. And actually that day I was driving the boat, but it also gives me some autonomy because I can't. So then, cause if he happened to be gone for this whole heat wave, so I meant no taking out the boat. And so it's kind of a little bit of like, how can I still have my. Resort energy and, and, and get my water therapy when he's not here. So it was empowering. I think the fear, I have a lot less anxiety than when we first moved here. I was very anxious on the water with like, you know, the damage that could be done and all these things. Sure. So that, that is simultaneously giving, and I, I think I, it was like the same energy that makes me want to. Kind of conquer pickleball and get better and better and better is the same energy of like, Hey, I'm going to conquer like my fear of driving this boat. I love that. Yeah, I'm trying to. Yeah. Well, when we follow our, like our highest enthusiasm or something, it feels shiny. Or we only do what we want. Like, sometimes that can be like skewed in this idea of like it sounds passive or like it's not hard. But to do things that are hard is fun. As long as it's fun, the hard thing is fun. Does that make sense? Right? To get good at pickleball, you have to train, but it's fun, it's energizing. Right, and any montage from any like sports one is like them falling over, like hitting their head or doing all that. So I did have that moment because I was about to be like, oh, fuck this, and I'm like, no, you take the wheel. But I was like, nope, this is that like uncomfortable part. It's the, the learning curve growth, the growth learning. Yeah. Can

Kat: 1:27:03

yeah.

Val: 1:27:04

I tell you one thing before we, before we, we end ourselves for today, what I was wanted to bring up for the pleasure part was I've started to talk to especially clients about the concept of like vitality versus health. Oh, I love that. That's way better. Yeah. Like, right. Like, because I talked to a lot of them about self care and exercise, right? As the femme people, we've really been told that like exercise is a way to control your body. So not getting bigger. Right. And so I always say like the best moment is when you're doing it for another reason. And it's like for your mental health, you're like, Oh my gosh, I'm less anxious after I took that walk or whatever. And but health is also tricky. Right. It's tricky because. And some of the like right some of the numbers are made up like so, you know Like that's all made up to like what number is high this or high that right? What number is where you're called this and we don't really have full control over our our health like our genetics Like, you know We don't have full control of our health, but we can do things. Right. So it's like, do the habits that feel good. And I'm like, what about if we are doing things that make us feel like get that vitality, that vivaciousness. What's really funny is all these words start with V vibrancy,

Kat: 1:28:21

Vibrancy

Val: 1:28:21

vitality. Well, vivaciousness, I guess the other, you're so vivacious, Val, that's what you're doing on the pickleball court being vivacious. Well, what's really funny is that when I looked up vivaciousness or vivacity, I guess is the correct term. It said, especially for women, okay, go fuck yourself attractively lively and animated. Is that

Kat: 1:28:44

that

Val: 1:28:44

like wild that it said that, but all of these words like vitality, health, feeling of aliveness, and you said it earlier in the podcast, that's why I wanted to include it like being energetic, lively, spiritual dynamism. So what if we did the things that made us feel vibrant, vivacious? That feeling of vitality and the health will will it should come along and some of the things we just don't have control over But what if we focus on like I want to feel healthy I want to feel vibrant, vivacious and what are those things? Is it playing more games? Is it like flirting? Is it the clothes you wear? Is it being in a certain place or neighborhood or doing certain things? Yeah. Learning a new, I mean, anything. So that's the thing. Like if we reframe the story of like, Oh, my body doesn't work in these ways. That story is limiting, contracting, right? But if you're like, Ooh. Based on what I am able to do, what is the thing I want to do? What makes me feel shiny and alive? And again, because of our programming and the culture we live in, sometimes it takes a little work to start to answer those questions. So you start to do it with smaller things. Like you start to do it with like, what kind of food do I want to eat? Right. Or you like practice saying no. When you feel in your body, there's like an invitation to do

Kat: 1:29:58

thing

Val: 1:29:59

or someone's asked you to do a thing. And then instead of just being like. Yes, you're like, let me feel into my body and then ask myself that question and then tell you the honest answer. Right? That's such a big difference. Yeah, it is. But it starts to, like, freedom, like, creates this, these fractals, like, like water, right? It, like, it pushes out further and further and further, right? And then the more free you and I get, Val, there's, there's more freedom in the whole fucking world, right? Yeah. And then, you know, there's Rafiq. He's already fucking free. He really is. So doing what makes us feel alive. Yeah. Is why we are continuing this podcast. Yes. Right. Yeah. We wanted to share that today, didn't we? So we are officially going to be producing a season two for you all. We're very excited. And probably gonna do about once a month is what feels good to us right now. And we decided we, it's our money episode and we're like, Hey, we are going to invite you, our wonderful listeners to support the show. We're going to have a link in the show notes. It's called buymeacupofcoffee. com. And so you guys can contribute to the overhead costs of making this content for you all. We're just doing it as a labor of love right now, but then we're like, Hey. Fuckers, we should get paid.

Kat: 1:31:15

I'm not

Val: 1:31:15

I'm not afraid of money anymore. Like bring me some fucking money. Share it all this gold for free.

Kat: 1:31:20

So you feel

Val: 1:31:21

like it feels shiny to you to like chip in and buy us a coffee. You want to pay off my car?

Kat: 1:31:26

You can do that.

Val: 1:31:27

I would love it. So yeah, the invitation is there. And the, yeah, like to, to send your resources in a way that like acknowledges that you've had some benefit from our. Delightful conversations are vivacious. Do you feel like you're having a cup of coffee with us? Yeah Totally. Oh, well, that seems like a great place to end for today. Yay. Thank you Val. Thank you. I love you so much I love you until next time