Aging with Pleasure

Kat and Val are chatting up all things aging.  How do we bring play into our lives as older adults with full lives? How do we make the choice to grow and expand into our latter years vs. retract and see our lives grow small? How to get better and better at “giving no fucks”? All this and more friends! Enjoy!

This season Kat and Val plan to record longer episodes about once a month as they practice centering their needs while producing this labor of love. If you’d like to support the show please “buy us a cup of coffee” and help offset costs! 

Thanks for listening! 

*This podcast is for entertainment purposes only

Find us on Instagram:
Kat and Val Podcast

Val's offerings:
Val is in the pickle ball documentary trailer!
So This is Love Club
Reset Yourself for Love Program
Instagram So This is Love Club

Kat's offerings:
Fat Liberation Art -Fat Mystic Etsy Shop
Instagram- katmaxisfree
Tiktok- katmaxisfree

Additional resources/definitions referenced in most episodes:
The soul of Money by Lynne Twist
How to Change Your Mind (Netflix Docuseries) Micheal Pollan
Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria
Jill Johnson Young- grief talker
Five Stages of Grief
Intuitive eating.org
NAAFA National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance
Tell Me I'm Fat - This American Life
Adrienne Maree Brown
Pleasure Activism; The Politics of Feeling Good

Transcript

val: 0:10

​You're listening to three questions with Katten, Val I'm Kat and I'm bow. We've been friends for over 20 years. Thousands of therapists and cats and artists. We're both great talkers. And we're both XFN delicacy who used to pastor gay. Now we both have chronic illnesses. We think we're fucking hilarious. Oh, hi friend. Hi friend. Um, we did a

kat: 0:44

did a thing.

val: 0:45

We did a thing. It was good. We liked that thing.

kat: 0:48

Oh, we did a

val: 0:48

was a good thing.

kat: 0:49

And then we just got busy and we didn't like share it with any of you guys. So,

val: 0:53

Sorry not sorry, we're hibernating! Come on! Um, yeah,

kat: 1:00

But we recorded an episode ages ago and we still want to release it so we're going to so here you

val: 1:05

Cause time is, time is a construct,

kat: 1:06

It's all made up fuckers

val: 1:08

Go enjoy it!

kat: 1:08

Also, we love

val: 1:09

We love you!

kat: 1:12

Hello, hello, hello. Hello, Val. God. We're here, we're doing it. We're here, again. Once a month, fuckers. I was gonna say, just like your period. We're gonna talk about aging and perimenopause and all those things, so. Yeah. Look at you, throwing it in right there. Well, because we are this season two, we're doing approximately once a month on our episodes. Yeah. And this month, December, well, it's December, but it's Sagittarius season, right? Yes. And so it's our birthday window. Birthday window. Because you're a November Sag. Yeah. Yeah. Very late November. Yeah. Turkey, turkey baby. Yeah. Sometimes your birthday lands on Thanksgiving. It really does. Yeah. Was that annoying growing up? Yes. Oh yeah. I could see that. Probably it's more annoying now. Really? More annoying now? Well, I think as a kid I just didn't really. Oh sure. Or maybe I just don't remember anymore. Right. But now yeah, so I had, you saw a beautiful bouquet of flowers I got from friends. Yeah. was birthday observed, and so I just have to find little cracks and spaces and, and. Yeah, cause everyone's got shit going on. Yeah, I think that's the hardest part cause then. Right after Thanksgiving is everyone's holiday party. So I thought one year I learned my lesson of the first week of December. Most people have their holiday party. So I thought I was being smart. Okay. I'll plan my party here. And then, and then all the RSVPs come back though, that's still as a highly. sensitive person. It still kills me. It hurts your feelings. It does. Rafiq always wants me to reach out to people last minute and it's just so ridiculous to be like no's are so hard to hear even though it logically so actually I think I'm getting better at that though, I'll have to say. bUt I do love celebrating and honestly, it's just an excuse to have quality time with the people I love. I think so. Yeah. And we do love to throw a party. You guys are the best at it. It's you and your resort energy. last episode we talked about you having your resort energy. Healing resort energy. Yeah. Healing resort energy. Yeah. And you throw a great party. So the parties that you throw that I've been to are always like really fun and the energy is so good and there's cool people. Yeah. And yeah. Oh, I was just telling same birthday friends that About the moment where Rafiq was doing this whole big production to the song Mambo No. 5, which is really, like, kind of a misogynistic song. But one of your friends that came well, it was like, He was coming over to sort of like the queer, the queer corner, the cool kids, the cool kids. But like, and I in my head, it was happening. I was like, Oh man, but they rolled with it. We talked about this before, where you're like, well, it's Rafiq's energy. It just somehow it doesn't seem offensive or like anybody else who came up to them and was like let's sing Mambo No. Five, a little bit of Monica, a little bit of and they would be like, Go fuck yourself, sir. And don't enjoy it, that was a really funny memory. He's so authentically himself in such an alive way that it's hard not to be delighted. It really is. It's hard not to be delighted when he's just like, dancing in front of you, like, yeah, shake that ass, motherfucker. Yeah, you and all my queer friends are like, you go, it's awesome. Oh, there's a lot of, yeah, a lot of great memories from, from that moment. Yeah. How are you feeling about your birthday this year? Well, I, I just, the other day I was like, Whoa, I'll be 46. And I'm like, That's, that's like, you know, upper 40s. It's late 40s now. And there's something about that when you're like, you switch to a different like, category or like, you know, we check out those boxes for whatever random shit we're filling out and I'm like, I'm in a new category. Yeah. But I'm okay with it, like it's just in my internal self perception, I've kind of been in my early 40s for a hot minute, right? And so now I gotta be like, yeah, it's late 40s, you know, so, but it's all made up. Yeah. Right? So, and the thing about aging is that when I think about old people, what I super love about them is this ability to give less and less fucks, right? Yes. And when I think about myself, you ever do a meditation where you try to like interact with your future self? Isn't that like a normal thing that we do? I'm sorry. No, I haven't. It's, I mean, it's, it's on my list, but no, I haven't, you, you could have just stopped with, have you ever tried a meditation and I'm like,

val: 5:45

like,

kat: 5:45

not, not that much, not really. Okay. Well, it's something really fun because, you know, I am on my like ever evolving healing journey stuff. Right. And. This like quest to be as free as I can be, right? The specifics of me and my life and who I am in the world and, you know, why ever. I, like, showed up in this human body, human form, like, I want to get as free as I can. So it's not in comparison to anyone else, but sometimes, as a practice, I'm, like, trying to check in with, like, this future version of myself, like, Hey, what, what are we, what does it look like to be free? It's more free. Like five, five years down the road, like what does that look like? And so what, what, what has your future self telling you? Oh man, they're such a bad ass. Yeah. Oh God. It's so interesting. So, okay. Last episode I talked about like that big intense mushroom trip I was on and like, that I was doing more channeling and I had to like deal with an awful lot of my own resistances and stories that I had about that and like how othering it made me feel and it was really uncomfortable. And so, but as I

val: 6:51

as I

kat: 6:51

sit with it, I sit with myself and again, like sort of, Anchoring into this like this future version of me. There's just no issue It's just like something that probably a lot of us can do but I think when we heal our stuff we heal the trauma We sort of clear the channel. We like clear out all the programming that is really loud in our culture. Yeah Yeah, right. Yeah, and so going all the way back at my story to like the body liberation journey. So like the body liberation space kind of kicked loose this like radical acceptance of everything, right? So not just my physical form, but like my ADHD, you know, my my queerness, like so much stuff. And so I'm using those principles and those practices to like lean back into my own mysticism, right? And it's a full circle thing because again, when we were Pentecostals, we were like mystical as fuck, right? And so But I did, because of messaging, because of programming in our culture, have to do an awful lot of, like resistance work. Like, I'm like, okay, I'm aware that I feel, I don't know, uncomfortable with this for a lot of different reasons. And so then I just offered those places in me that were uncomfortable, like compassion, and I just decided, like, what am I going to do? Like, keep playing small, or just, Accept that this is just part of what I can do and it feels good when I actually do it, right? So, so like again the aging thing and like tapping into like this future version of myself, like there's just zero fucks, right? We just, we have less hang ups and that is fucking hot, right? You see people out in the world, that's one of the reasons why. Rafiq is so compelling, right? Your husband, because he doesn't give fucks and it's cool as shit, right? Yeah, and then I just find that when I center myself and I want to align with whatever my highest Timeline is my highest expression of myself. It's giving less and less fucks. It's less and less programming and giving less fucks. And then just doing the shit that I can do. Like channeling higher dimensional beings. That are giving us pep talks. You know you're talking and you know it's funny like this makes me seem very so unselfaware, I guess, but as you were talking, I'm like, Oh, maybe that was part of why I was attracted to him in the beginning. But I, but also he, he didn't, he didn't let on to all that in the very beginning, right? He was just kind of, I don't think I saw the full freedom, right? Because as you get, you know, more comfortable with people and maybe, maybe he has become more free too. But I think maybe. In

val: 9:26

I think that in that

kat: 9:26

opposites kind of, you know, seek each other out or we're attracted to those things that my very buttoned up unfree self was like, oh, yeah. You know, what's really funny is you asked about, do you, do a meditation where you, where you talk to your future self, Rafika and I have. have a, we have a form of that, that a tradition that we do when we're out on vacation will and it's kind of weird, but we'll so it started off on a birthday trip to Brazil where Rafique almost died on my birthday, saving a honeymooning couple who had gotten into the undercurrent at the beach. Oh my God. And so, I fell asleep on the beach because I had a head cold. I'm one of the most beautiful beaches in the world, actually. It's on that list, right? This little island. And he comes back and then he's telling me this story about how he helped try, you know, helped save them and rescue them, blah, blah, blah. But on that trip, we were on a boat. And there was this older gentleman and he, because, you know, Rafiq wears a Speedo because he's from Brazil. Right. And when we first got together, I was like, you can't wear that around the Americans. He's like, why? And it's so funny to watch people get embarrassed about the male form when the female body is always on display. Right. Yeah. But if there is a a male form. All my friends were so embarrassed, like, Rafiq, put that away, Rafiq, what are you doing? Even when he takes off his shirt, like, we had friends call up, like, Okay, I picked up Val and Rafiq, we're on our way, but just so you know, Rafiq doesn't have a shirt on. I'm like, why is that newsworthy? Anyway, there was an older man, picture, he had, like, silver, white hair. He was incredibly tanned and kind of leathery. Had a bit of a little belly that was hanging over his bright turquoise Speedo. Like, bikini Speedo. Wow. like showering himself off after like going on a boat ride. And so that started out the, that's what I want you to look like when you're older. So when we're out, he'll be like, we'll see older people out, like living their life, like vacationing, whatever. And he'll say, Hey, okay, I want you to look like that grandma when you're older. It's such a weird practice, but in a sense, we are like thinking into the future of like how we want to age, how we want to. And they're always like women with long, like silvery white hair with like long flowy dresses who do feel free and are just like live in their life. And so it's hilarious that we are doing that form of meditation. I love it. So it looks like you guys are already like planning to age, right? Like, and you're not avoiding it. Like, he's not pointing out people that haven't aged, right? Like, that's beautiful. I love it. It is beautiful. I do love that it's not also like sort of that unattainable Oh yeah. Right. Standard of well, he always talk about Cher's. Plastic surgeon is really great. like, share does not look easy. Share's 80. Yeah. That's intense. Yeah. But yeah, we are thinking about how we do want to. Kind of continue. Yeah. Yeah. And that we're allowed, like we're allowed to have like our skin is drooping or like our face changes, we have more lines, you know? I like that specifically. Like all that silver billowing hair, you know, I love it. Yeah. It is the both end, isn't it? Yeah. And and it's great that just because we are kind of rejecting. society's beauty standards that we can do certain things that we want to do, right? But we're doing them because we want to, because it makes us feel good. Not because we have to, to be acceptable. Because everything is permissible. There's no wrong way to age, really. Like, you're going to age. You just keep staying alive. We age, right? And so people who You know, feel the need or the desire to like, do this or that thing to tweak their face or their body. You know, it's not, it's not exactly wrong or anything, but you know, I just saw this Substack post from Elizabeth Gilbert. I follow her on Substack, which is like a new writing platform and she's doing a video and she's doing this thing where she's like, channeling love and writing letters to herself from love as if love was like a conscious entity, right? And so she did this really vulnerable post about how she just wants to be done getting Botox and getting lip fillers. Like she just, just like I'm done. And she, usually she has like a cropped haircut and now she she's like cut it really short. And shaved it. And I just, I found it so beautiful. I just, I just was like, yay, because it feels more free in whatever your individual version of freedom is. Like, again, if some of this beauty stuff is, you know, your version of freedom, that's fine. But like, for me personally, I do resonate more with how nice it feels. Like I stopped wearing makeup some time ago. Yeah. And I'm like, Oh, it feels really good. Like specifically I used to really I don't know like how I looked with like eyeliner and mascara and stuff it like makes your eyes pop But then I just it didn't feel that good like physically the the sensation of it because you know again neurodiversity I have some like sensory issues and I started to notice that the people I was always drawn to were like You know, like femme people or mask of center people in a femme, like AFAB person, but they didn't have any eye makeup on, right? I just loved it. I just loved like no makeup on femme faces, And so. I just stopped doing it and it feels really good to not think about it anymore, right? Like I'm getting ready to go out and do a fun thing. I don't have to take the added time of like, well, and I'm going to put, you know, make it fun. And I just like how I look like, I'm like, Oh, it's hi, it's you. Like when I see myself in the mirror or something like that, so, and then, you know, my face is changing. Like, you know, there's more, you know, crow's feet stuff and But I just, I'm like, it feels good, it feels like, again, I'm sort of discovering the most authentic me and so I was really excited when I saw that post from Elizabeth Gilbert. For those of you who don't know, Elizabeth Gilbert is the person who wrote Eat, Pray, Love, and she's written a ton of stuff, but I've been a fan of her for a long time now. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think now we're in the age of people talking more real about their lives, right? Yeah. And having having platforms that are outside of like the studio or their, their agent or their PR. Right. So they can, they can post pictures of themselves without makeup or there's no one controlling their image. Right. Cause maybe the people in the public eye in the past, right. There was a lot more pressure to look a certain way or present yourself. Yeah, you can really feel that that is shifting, right? Yeah. Yeah. There's still, maybe not so much transparency, there's, there is a lot, but I think that we all forget that when we see a picture of someone, most likely it's airbrushed. Most likely. Sure. You know, or, or the people that don't seem to age at all, they, they are doing so many of these treatments, right? Right. On a daily basis. And I think we forget that and some people are being transparent and some are not. And maybe that's none of our business. Right. But you know, when you were talking about makeup, I was thinking about my own relationship with makeup and I, I do love to wear eye makeup as well. And of course I, I go out in public without it, but I, I really enjoy it. Yeah. But I was thinking back to college. Yeah. And if you're just tuning in, we, we met in college and been friends since we went in bible college, And I don't think I would go out of the dorm Yeah. Without makeup. Right, right. And actually I think I got bullied the first time I actually did bullied in Bible. So gross. I remember I was like, no, I'm just going to go to breakfast, right? Because we live in the dorms. And I'm like, Nope, I'm going to try it without it. Oh, wow. I've never thought about this in a long time. And a friend of mine who was, who's male was just like, and he knew my dad, I think too. And he was like, he said something about me looking more like my dad at that point. I know it was like, Oh great. Like I tried to like go out in public and then, when something like that Happens to you it reinforces right? But yeah, I actually didn't remember that in college. I wouldn't go out without makeup I think the key is always going to be authenticity when it comes to like however we want to participate with beautification. Right? Because what you're telling in that story is that there is an expectation and you didn't have the freedom of I choose it when I want to. Yeah. It was I will be ridiculed in some way. or attention will be brought to me in some way that I'm not interested in if I do not do this act of like putting on this makeup. I just recently watched a documentary about Dolly Parton and I've never been like a deep dive, like I know her music really well, but of course I've been like aware of her for ages and you just can't help but love her, right? She's truly authentic and I love that she, in this documentary, she was just so Like, quick to say that, like, I know I look plastic, but I love it. And, and then, I, like, this friend of mine was, like, you know, like, the most authentic person in, like, this very sort of, like, you know, plastic y. And it works because she just authentically just loves it, right? She's not doing it for anyone else. internally decided this is what she wants and she's having fun with it. She's in on the joke of it too. You know what I mean? Sure. I love that and also when we navigate our lives forward again in aging or however we want to like progress our life. To, to always know, like, our choices are from an internal place. That's where freedom comes. So the freedom to choose anything you want, right? Yeah. Literally anything. Mm hmm. But as long as it's the internal choice versus what we can all relate to is that sensation of, like, I will be rejected in some way if I do not conform and perform this A, B, or C. Yeah. And it all goes back to like, am I lovable? Yeah. Will I be accepted and loved? Yeah. But our authenticity is the key to it. I, I'm a hundred percent agreeing with you because you're right. Like I'm imagining two people doing that exact same thing. Totally. One doing it out of fear or shame or just even not really. Of their will. And you can see it, right? You can see it on them. You can. And their energy. And that's what's so beautiful about like Dolly Parton is her energy is like pure. It is like alive and shiny and vibrant. Yes. And like playful. I don't know. She's great. I love her. We've talked about that so much, right? About being embodied and how your energy how that changes the energy and how people feel that and want to be around you. Yeah. Yeah, and I, I gotta say it's the both and still because I am noticing my face is changing. And that marks the passage of time, right? And You feel like mortality is in it for you? I, I don't think so. Or not yet. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. But I think. Besides, like, weight changes, I haven't had that many change, right? Like, how many other changes do we have besides weight? Like, at a certain point, we stop growing our heights. Yes. Right? Maybe not a lot of other things change. Yeah. And so I think those things feel big. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. So we were talking about, you know, our birthdays and like, I know that you've got, you know, your birthdays what, what birthdays is for you?? Let me think. 48. Because I have my, because I have my pickleball age. I told you, I think I talked about that before. Well, tell me about the pickleball. Well, it's funny. Your pickleball age is what you will be. By December 31st of that year. So on January 1st, if your birthday is on December 31st. Yeah, January 1st of that year You're already that age. Oh, I'm still under 50, which okay I think I have talked about this, but I'm so excited pickleball the gift that keeps on giving people That I have something to look forward to, to turning 50 and I don't feel like terrible about turning 50 and I think again, the privilege of, of living and owning yourself and just feeling more confident, but. A lot of tournaments are age based and it's usually under 50 or 50 and over. And so everyone's like, Oh, if we play with you, we got to play down with the young kids. So we've lost a couple of golds and had to settle for silver for some like people that were almost 30 years younger than we were, you know what I mean? And that's just. Yeah. I say, Oh, you still have elastic in your muscles. You can bend, you can twist, you can it, it is a factor. Yeah. So I think everyone will be so excited and I'm in our little or group, I'm one of the youngest. So that is so. I have been pickleball 48 since January 1st, but I haven't turned 48 yet. So four weeks after I turned 49, I will be pickleball 50. Okay. Yeah. And then you're going to be the young snapper, like snatching up all those golds. That's awesome. Okay. Tell us the update about the documentary you are in. Yes. It was fully funded. The Kickstarter was successful, so they're continuing on to make that like a reality. So thank you to everybody and I hope you see the link in the show notes for the trailer and Yeah, I watched the trailer. Did you? It's fun to see you in it. Yeah. I see you twice. Yeah. One time speaking, one time not. Yeah. And that's so cool. Yeah. So that's exciting. Yeah. And then don't you have a trip coming up? Oh yeah, we're going to the amateur nationals in Florida in a couple weeks. So, putting it to the test. I know, I know. Oh, I have a great last night we We played until we couldn't play anymore because of the sun going down and I felt like it was so invigorating like I feel like a little kid. We're refusing to give up like we couldn't see the ball anymore. Like hey, we got to call it, oh I'm telling you like whatever it is folks find the thing that Connects you to your playfulness and to your childhood, to your younger self. And that is what will keep you young. Oh, I was just going to say the exact same thing. Yeah. When we talk about aging and again, like when we deprogram ourselves, right. From like the stuff, the noise in our culture that keeps us. Kind of, like, suppressed and, and oppressed in a lot of ways. We break out of that, we, we get to move into our, our older years more free, More authentic, and then re finding, rediscovering play. Yeah. Some people age the other way, they get contracted, but we get to choose. You get to choose. Yeah. Do you want to age and get expansive or retracted, right? And that's just about like how loud of a voice we give fear in our whole, in every part of our life. Like fear contracts and like love and acceptance expands. Yeah. Okay, wait. I want to tell you a cool aging story. Yeah. There's a movie on Netflix called Nyad and it's got Annette Bening and who's the other person? Jodie Foster. Yeah. And they're playing. A real life story of these two women in their 60s and it is epic and amazing and I'm not going to give any spoilers but I just loved it. The acting was so good. Talk about like a feel good thing. Talk about like, like you're aligning with your destiny and like you're not too old to like take on some big massive dream. Right? Oh, that's so good. Did you watch it? I didn't, but I remember it being in the news. Yeah. I'll say that. I remember it being in the news. Me too. Oh, it's so good. Yeah. I also think about maybe somewhere in one of the Nordic countries, they, they paired people who are living in aging homes with preschools. Oh, yeah. I read about that. Yeah, putting that together. And I think part of it is about being useful, but I think another part is about youthfulness. And when, again, we get to discover life through the eyes of a child, a child doesn't have so much programming and honestly usually has a lot less fear. And that can kind of like, I don't know, wake us up again to write how, how free we can choose to be. Speaking of pickleball again the national competition was, was this past week and they interviewed a 93 year old woman who was playing and her, I guess her husband played with like the founders down. I guess it was founded in the state of Washington and they lived down the street and they played with the founders and. played competitions against him, but at 93 being still able to compete in the tournament, that's so beautiful. I feel like that is more my goals now than any sort of right. Any sort of. Weight metric, or beauty metric, or financial metric. It's how, how well could I age in what my body can do. Cause, right, you know, I have a chronic illness. I, I kind of joke that I've felt like I had a grandma body since I was 20. And so that's, I still have to manage that. And it's, it's fear like creeps in like, Ooh, how will my older years be if. I felt this way as a 20 year old, right? But I love to that. I've seen more articles about Oh The focus is more about what your body can do. Like, can you pick up heavy groceries? Can you walk a flight of stairs? Can you squat? Like, I'm reading more about if you can do a deep squat, that is the biggest indicator of health. That's amazing. And not everyone can do it. And I don't even know if I could do it right now. It's my knee hurts. But thinking about, oh, here's some exercises not to give you like, you know, a Brazilian booty lift, right? Like not, not to do that. That's to give you a bigger butt. But to make sure that you're going into your, your, you know, golden years functional, right? Yeah. Mm. That's so beautiful. Yeah. I can do a deep squat. At the gym, I don't go that often, but when I can get myself to the gym, my favorite machine to use is it's like a reclined squat machine. Yeah. The press, the leg press thing. Yeah, yeah. God, I love that. And I. Yeah. I make the settings so that I push into the deepest squat possible. Man, does that feel good. I love that feeling. It feels good to be in my body. Yes. I'm just noticing we haven't really referenced our questions. So like for anyone who's more new to the podcast, so our three questions is, what are you learning? And then what's moving around for you? Or how are you evolving? And then finally, what's bringing you pleasure? Yeah. So in this conversation, we've danced around. Yeah. Anything you specifically learned about aging and maybe aging as like a femme person with a female body? Yes. Like menopause stuff? Yes. Yes. I have been learning about perimenopause. Hmm. Right. And. Because that's the age group we're in. That's our experience. It is. I don't know how it was talked about, in your sphere, but it was just something kind of to be feared like, Oh gosh, the hot flashes are going to be terrible, you know you're going to be grouchy and moody and always hot and can't sleep. Like those are the things that I think were kind of the, yeah, the symptoms that were talked about the most. But my dear friend cat, it goes so much deeper than that. And the discussion is getting out there. Like which again, right, is great. And we know that we live in a patriarchal society and we've known that there hasn't been as much money spent on. researching and helping women go through perimenopause, right? So, you know, Oprah's talking about it. Some other celebrities are putting their money behind apps and all these things and people are talking about it. And so I think that is going to have a great impact. I just read that. Millennials and Gen Z's will be the first ones that will know about perimenopause Yeah, before they experience it. So they'll be looking out for it. So it won't be like this isolated solo alone kind of lonely Sense of is sensations and experiences you're having you're like what's happening me. You don't know what's going on Like those before us. Yeah. Well and I would say I I, I knew the word perimenopause, but it was just like, Oh, that's the period of time. Right. It could be starting in your mid thirties, And there's some interesting symptoms that even you and I have talked about that. Oh, cause I, I did not understand the symptoms I was having were probably perimenopause. But remember on this very podcast, you and I were talking about anxiety and we asked each other, did you feel anxious as a kid or in college now? And it was like, I don't know, did we just not really know that we're people not using the term anxiety as much, or is it because we're older and we have more things to be anxious about? Is it the world? What is it? And a drop in progesterone can cause anxiety and about the time where I started to feel really anxious was probably my mid to late thirties. Right at that time. And even just as a mental health practitioner, right, right. Like not knowing that or not, and, and maybe treatment is the same, but I think. Understanding. Oh, this is a part of it. Yeah. Yeah. And now, I guess when HRT Hormone Replacement Therapy first came out. There were some studies that kind of made it seem scary. And then they saw a lot of women were not going on it. And there was all this fear. And I from what I understand now, from what I'm learning, which it's such a wild time to be a live cat and get all of our information from like a dancing doctor, right? But they're talking about how for most people it is going to be. The, the treatment for perimenopause and menopause now and in the future where some people in the future might not even have to go through any of these symptoms. Why suffer? Right. You know, it's interesting too again on TikTok a lot, we're seeing the mainstream medicine be more open to indigenous medicines. And so I was seeing a TikTok not that long ago where someone was talking about like a kind of yam, and how it has Some kind of hormone that helps balance out for menopause. Yeah, progesterone. Am I saying that right? Progesterone? Progesterone is the hormone. Yeah. Yeah. It helps balance out progesterone. Yeah, and it's in yams or something. Yeah. Yeah, and I was like, so, you know, you could have like something prescribed to you or also like there's some natural ways to like People have already been knowing how to deal with this. Yes. They more naturopathic remedies, right? Yeah, yeah. But it exists in nature as well. Yes. Right. And so like the idea that we would like use something to like help us. navigate what our body is going through. Like we have like, like foods or, or movement or even meditations like to be present with, oh hey this is what's happening. And so I'm going to gravitate towards whatever like tool or assistance will allow me to like age gracefully. Like my body's gonna change. I'm experiencing perimenopause. And we're moving into menopause like, Ooh, what's available for me to be like loving and kind and gentle with myself to be like, Hey, this is going to help so that, it's not rough. It's not kicking my ass. Yes, yes. I think also in the medical community, it's been documented that doctors don't believe women. When they talk about their pain, they think they're overdoing it. Also, people of color, they don't believe as much either about their pain. So, yeah, like some inherent thing that women should suffer and we don't. Yeah. Right. It goes all the way with the book in the Bible. Yeah. Yeah. Suffering and childbirth and all that stuff. Man, living in a patriarchal society, yeah, yeah. So you need to get some more money. We had our money episode last time and, and, and help, you know, further these studies and see that, you know, women's health beyond their, like what they can reproduce for society. is, is important. And I'm going to yes, and you, because yeah, I, if I took a running list of all the things that they say help, which I'm sure they do, I think also it can be overwhelming too, right. It's just kind of the trial and error of what works for you what do you have space for yeah and again here's the thing like i think when we are aligned in a way we can maybe get information there's like a whole list and it's overwhelming but i really just will let myself look at a list like that and just see and scan if anything is shiny. What feels shiny to me? Right? Is it carrots or is it a yam? I think it's interesting. These are both root vegetables. And like I've been reading a lot about earthing, you know, are you familiar? Yeah. And so I don't know exactly how it works, but except there's a lot of like, we're electricity in our body, right? And then the Earth has electricity and it like balances out the neurons or something, the free radicals, I don't really remember. It's like an electric, yeah, like an electric current. Grounding, grounding. Yeah, like our physical human body. Because most of the soles of our shoes are rubber, and then we never touch the earth with our bare skin. Like, we're we're sort of, within our physical form, there's like, there's a release that we need that is so easy. It's just, you know, our ancestors all walked on the earth, and we're just, our society doesn't do that. So, I'm doing this practice where I'm just trying to like, put my bare feet out in the world a little bit more. And then I'm like, Whee! This is helping me! Well, and they say that about the sand as well, and so another reason why everyone feels better at the beach, right? There is a big movement. I'll say with circadian rhythms getting your sunshine in the morning and and and having your feet touch the earth Right, and I'm sure that there is truth to it I'm not I wish I would have known that before I put artificial turf on the one patch of grass we have Thanks a lot But yeah, I also read about like, that trees emit that frequency as well. And so like, like tree hugging, yeah, it didn't come from just a name to call hippies were like, hugging them to save them. But I think there is a practice of actually hugging trees to feel calm. Yeah. Fucking tree hugger. Also, like, in my early research into ADHD, like, there's a lot of talking about, like forced bathing. It just means going into a forest. We just need to be around fucking trees, people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. It's good for us to just go back to fucking nature and not live in this. Like yeah, I, I, I swear overhead lighting is like gives me headaches. I'm so glad I'm not in an office with, you know, fluorescent lighting. Yeah. Staring into the sun, I tell you that I still I'm like, if I had to worship something, I still I'm going to worship the sun because it makes me feel so fucking good. It does. Thank you. Vitamin D. Oh, man. Oh. What? SOrry, you reminded me. I had to make sure this gets on the podcast. If you remember, we have a an episode called Sad Bitches Get Vitamin D. Because one time you came and you were sad and you're like, I think I'm going to go and sit outside. I'm like, perfect. And I went in my little medicine cabinet and like shoved some gummies in your face without telling you what they were. And I think either your impulsivity of ADHD or just your trust to me, you just took them without asking what they were. Yeah, yeah. It's very on brand for me. Well, you are like Rafiq so much in that way. And I'm just like, why don't you think before you act, instead of act, and then I really gave it to me. I know I have a really embarrassing story about how he did that. And that was like. A really, it turned out really badly for him, but maybe, maybe that's for today. Maybe that's for another, it's a little bit intimate, but this is a really funny story. But anyway, another funny story is that, yeah, you just took them and you're like, wait, I'm like sad bitches get vitamin D. And then that we talked about depression, right? Yeah. So, I have a friend who's a listener of the podcast. We love him. And he was telling me like, Oh yeah, sorry. I haven't been calling like the time changes got me feeling sad. And he's like, but I started taking my vitamins. I didn't know if that was code for. marijuana or real vitamins and I'm like wait are you taking he's like yeah I'm taking my vitamin D just like you told me I got the brand new gut and I was like oh I wanted I wanted to say sad bitches get vitamin D but you know he's real so I said I said sad boys and then when I thought of sad boys then it became bad boys so I started singing sad boys sad boys what you gonna do Sad boys sad boys. Oh my god, what you gonna do? What you gonna do? Take a gummy or two? sad boys sad boys We could take it on the road. Oh my god that that brought more joy than maybe it's such a faithful listener I know we love you after an episode. I know thank you for being our listeners everybody. We did So we just set up a Buy Us a Cup of Coffee and we got some feedback already and people are donating to help offset the cost of our amazing podcast that you all love and adore so much. We love doing it. It's so fun. It feels like a great outlet for us, but also like if you get any value from this, like you'll see it in the show notes, like please go buy us a cup of coffee, help contribute to the overhead costs. Yes. Yay. What a fun conversation, Valerie. Of a topic that is not always so fun. I know, kind of taboo, right? Again, people are afraid to die. I'm not afraid to die anymore. I'm like, ooh, I'm gonna find out what's on the other side, motherfuckers. What if it's nothing? Would that be funny? But then you would just, I mean, I don't really think you'll cease to exist as a soul, but. No, well, okay, physics says that we can't anyway, right? Quantum physics, you can't, energy can't not exist. It just changes form. Yeah. Deep sigh. You know, it's funny when we were Christian, people would say like what if you're wrong? You know? And then the tagline was, well, I'm, I'm living a great life though. So I've just had this nice, you know, we would say like clean, like life. And so they're like, yeah, I don't mind that. And then I was thinking about how yeah. What if there's nothing on the other side? I was like, well. I'm the most free I've ever been in my whole fucking life, right? And so like, I don't mind, right? Like, I'll, sure, I'll just use whatever resonates with me to like, whatever, like, my present moment is full of me centering myself and loving myself really, really well and then like, whenever anything challenging comes up, I'm like, ooh, I'm about to get free from that, right? Something interesting happened I was, I was having some experiences where at night I was feeling a little bit scared and uneasy and I was like, this is new, what the heck is this? And then I was talking to a good friend of mine who, you know, is kind of pretty intuitive as well and like has some of these you know, insights and has done a lot of inner healing work and, and she was like, you know, that sounds like Like, pre verbal, like, trauma. And then, you know, a lot of my, my home life when I was a child, my family of origin, there was a lot of, you know, dysfunction and chaos and I happened to know that I was alone a lot as a, as a very small, either baby and or, like, toddler. And I was like, oh, and it was so interesting because I felt, as my friend was talking, I just felt it like, like, quicken in me. And I was like, that is it. And so that next day I went home and I took a microdose of mushrooms and I was like, I'm going to sit with the baby of me, like this pre verbal, like tiny, tiny person that was alone sometimes. It didn't feel good to be alone in the, in the universe. Right. Yeah. And it, it was so. It was really interesting. I mean, I've been doing this kind of work for a long time now. And I like to say that I like, I time travel in my own life now a lot, right? When anything comes up, that's like, Ooh, that's a tender spot, right? Or fear can teach us so much and show us so much. And so, yeah, I just sat with it. And My family got a kitten recently and my God, this fucking magical cat, like usually it'll sleep like at my head or at my feet, but it like crawled under the covers into my arms and I was like in this sort of meditative space and feeling the comfort of this kitten and like time traveling to like being a baby and I'm like coupling a kitten as a baby. I wasn't alone in the whole world and I swear to God, like that weird, eerie, scared feeling just resolved itself. Isn't that amazing? That's how free I'm getting, fuckers. I'm not scared of the dark no more. But really, really old stuff can come through so that it can be healed, so I can be more free. Isn't that neat? I love it. I know. I love it. So what's been should we go on to, we talked about what, what we've been learning, what's shifting around. Yeah. Yeah, what's bringing us pleasure? Yeah, what's bringing you, what's been bringing you pleasure? Okay, oh I have such a good one. This is so exciting. Okay, for the longest time, I have wanted to ride a, like a scooter thing. Like a Vespa kind of scooter. Yeah. Right? And then before the pandemic, they were starting to show up in Oakland as like something you could rent, right? And then the pandemic happened and we're all sheltering in place and they just weren't around anymore. Okay. But I've been doing the lift driving recently, right? That's also bringing me pleasure. Oh my god, I love it. really cool conversations with people and people love to tip me and I'm just having a ball and I only do it when I want to. It's fucking fun, right? I feel like I'm an undercover like spirit guy because I'm like, we just need to get all our trauma and people love to like tell me so much real shit because I'm an anonymous person. Yeah. Right. And I'm just high vibing over here. I'm fucking awesome. You definitely want me to be your Lyft driver. Yes. Okay. So. Anyway I was in San Francisco more often because of driving for Lyft, and I started to see those same blue scooters, and it's called Revel, R E V E L, and so you download an app, so I downloaded an app, and it turns out they have like a free training class, right? Because it felt a little scary to like, just like get on a machine, right? And yeah. So then my friend and I, we went to the city the other day and we're like driving a scooter and then it was like, oh my God, it was like the universe so fucking loves me, right? Because not only was the class free, right? But also they give you like a 65 credit so that you can take the class with them and then spend a couple hours toodling around so you get good at it, right? Yeah. Amazing. So. I made a plan. And so my friend and I are going to go to San Francisco and like drive around on scooters and have like our own fun adventure. Oh, so fun. I feel so good. super good and still a little scary because I'm not all the way used to it yet. Yes. To be like, yeah, like automotorized vehicle, like a, it's amazing. Yeah. I'm so jealous right now because I too would love to be on a little Vespa, but I don't know my safety anxiety is still a little, and I, it might actually. be warranted. Yeah. Because I, I don't know, I guess I haven't have I admitted this on the podcast, but I've now learned how to ride a bike. Oh. And Rafiq bought me like an adult tricycle, which everyone in our little town loves. We're like, cool, a bike has a basket. Yeah. But I tipped it over. No way. You tipped it over on a triangle? Oh, Valerie. That's a great confession. How in the fuck did you do that? I was going downhill on a turn. And I guess I, I don't know if I leaned the wrong way. But I, and it's heavy. This bike is heavy. I tipped it over and fell on three wheels. So maybe I, maybe I shouldn't be. But I really want to be, or if he tries to push me and I'm like, no, no, I, if I'm scared, I'm going to make more mistakes, but I, your day sounds amazing. That sounds like a great day to spend. I'm so glad you've felt that freedom. Yeah. I love it. Oh man. Oh boy. Aw. What's bringing you pleasure? You know I was, I was telling you a little bit before that I'm just noticing that I feel it feels like I'm noticing the seasons of my life and I think I've always been able to find joy and but there's been some real sadness and loss right infertility. That was kind of an interesting thing too in the passing of time where getting into your late 40s, it's like, yeah, it's not going to happen or losing that function of like, I've had children are like, Oh, finally, like I don't need this period anymore, right? So just kind of the finality of that, which I think was fine. I think I was healed enough once that came. We also lost a lot of community leaving the church. Also being in San Francisco for so long and making such really deep. Friendships and community, people that felt like family and then, and then they all scatter around the country as a lot of people do, right? So not many are left here. And so rebuilding that community here was difficult because of all the travel and whatnot. But I think I'm seeing that I do feel like I have that, I'm sort of rooted in that community now and so when I leave, it's like, oh, people will be here when I get back and it just so nice. It does. If it feels very significant, yeah, it feels very significant to realize that, oh, this This place that I was in that I hated that didn't feel healthy for me, that felt very sad yeah, it feels over,, like I've gone to a new season. Yeah. So that feels really good and at the same time, I went to see some good friends that had moved to Texas, and just spending time with them, and yeah, it you know, an ongoing plot line of, of, of our podcast is, is, is Rafiq and my relationship and just the role that his travel and his dreams play into all this and how we navigate that. And, and that's going well right now, but part of that was, okay, you're going to be gone. I'm going to go see these friends and just trying to see how I can. Reframe some of these things and take advantage of like, Hey, I probably wouldn't have made this trip. And I have friends all over the country to go and the time to go and spend quality time with them. And that felt so good. And both of them that I went to see, they have kids and it was nighttime. They're putting one of them to bed. And and you know, she was like, okay, good night. I love you. Blah, blah. And I guess they usually spend more time together. And he was like, You want to go talk to Val, don't you? Aww, the little kid. He's like, second grade, how does he know that? And then the other friend was like, Mom, you know, I'll go with dad cause I know you want to talk to Val and spend time with her, so that's okay. You and your healing reset energy. The little kids, the little kids felt it like, Oh, my mom has a friend here and they want to hang out. I know. So that was really sweet. So I was really, that, that brought me a lot of pleasure. Yay. Yay. Until next time friend. Oh, we love you. We love, we love you too. listeners, we love you. I do sometimes reference myself as a we now. I'm getting so weird, Mel. Oh, I love you, Mallory. I love you.