In this episode we "Sing (David) Singer's" praises as he explores coping strategies he has learned as a hospital social worker over his 19-year career. David brings wisdom as a seasoned practitioner working in the emergency department of a Level 1 trauma center and as a practicing therapist while not working in the hospital. He brings tremendous joy and compassion into his work, and we dive into how he is able to maintain his level of passion after working with so much trauma. Enjoy David Singer (I know we do!)
In this episode we "Sing (David) Singer's" praises as he explores coping strategies he has learned as a hospital social worker over his 19-year career. David brings wisdom as a seasoned practitioner working in the emergency department of a Level 1 trauma center and as a practicing therapist while not working in the hospital. He brings tremendous joy and compassion into his work, and we dive into how he is able to maintain his level of passion after working with so much trauma. Enjoy David Singer (I know we do!)
Thank you the views and opinions expressed in the podcast do not represent the opinions of Legacy.
Speaker 2:Health Code, blue Code, amber Code, silver Code, brown, whatever.
Speaker 1:Healthcare workers see it all, but how do they get through it?
Speaker 2:all. We're glad you asked. Join us as we explore their stories in this podcast. No really.
Speaker 1:I'm fine. Hello all you fine listeners. My name's Mike Larson and I'm Aaron Metcalf. Welcome to our podcast. No, really, I'm Fine. Aaron and I work together as chaplains at a level one trauma center and we're excited to share with you real stories from real healthcare workers from the front line.
Speaker 2:And, as you probably have heard us say already in our very first episode that dropped last week, we really believe that there's just as many ways to cope as there are people who need to cope. So we like to bring stories from different individuals, different areas of healthcare, and talk about what they do, what they're drawn, why they're drawn to the work, why they do the work, how they came to the work, how they cope with the stresses of the work and kind of like what keeps them coming back. And we really thank all the listeners who listened to last week's episode with Danny Magaral and we got some really positive feedback which we are stoked about. I wanted to take just one minute, if I could, to read a review that we received. That just warmed my it was a five-star review it was a five-star review that warmed this little chaplain's heart.
Speaker 2:A listener I'm not sure who this is said you don't have to be a healthcare professional to benefit from this podcast. Hearing about how conscious self-care enhances one's ability to care for others is inspiring for all of us. Danny, mike and Aaron discussed difficult and challenging topics with humor and hope, and so I wanted to give that plug, because that really did, I think, capture especially what Danny talked about last week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you didn't write that review.
Speaker 2:Could have been my mom.
Speaker 1:I was going to say I didn't write the review. And if you didn't write the review, at least it's somebody else out there, this could actually be my mom's initials.
Speaker 2:Thanks, mom.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. We love it. I mean seriously, though, I've heard so many great responses from people that you know have stopped me, caught me, connected with me one way or another, saying how much they appreciated the first episode, and just hearing Danny's story, and one of the things that came out very clearly from that was therapy, therapy, therapy. How important that was. So this week on the show we actually have a therapist.
Speaker 2:We do. We bring on a good friend of ours named David Singer, who is a licensed social worker who works in our hospital in the emergency department as a social worker and in this episode we sing, singers, praises. David brings a really grounded approach to his work and, uh, we call this episode tunnel vision. I'm not going to say why. I have a bit of a reputation for, as Mike likes to say, spilling the tea too early, so I just want that to be a bit of a hook and maybe we'll talk about it at the end of the episode. But he brings a pretty compelling way of of coping in the way that he stays grounded in an incredibly difficult environment and anybody that knows David knows his joy and his love of the work I mean I think I can use those words here about David's approach are contagious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's not spilling too much tea.
Speaker 2:Okay, thanks, mike.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we hope you enjoy this episode with David.
Speaker 2:Share, share. Give us a review, Send us a message. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 3:I'm David Singer, and no, really, I'm fine. Alright, sorry, you were just an angel with the light from behind you.
Speaker 1:Well, there's one time in my life. Nobody's ever accused Mike of being an angel with the light from behind you. Well, there's one time in my life.
Speaker 2:Nobody's ever accused Mike of being an angel.
Speaker 1:Not the kind you were talking about, at least.
Speaker 2:David Singer. David Singer is our guest today and we are very honored to have you with us on this podcast. No, really, I'm fine, appreciate the time that you're giving to this and just kind of want to open it up and ask a little bit about yourself. Tell us what you do in health care. And then why do you do it? What brought you to it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I'm a social worker here at Emanuel Hospital in the ER. Our job is really kind of twofold in a sense. I mean, we do a lot of emergency room social work stuff in terms of like the traumas that come in and all of our codes that come in, but we also work with our psychiatric patients. So all of the psychiatric patients that come in. It's our responsibility to do mental health assessments on all of them and make recommendations to the physician as to what the outcome should be, whether it's trying to keep somebody here on a hold, forcing them into treatment against their will, or maybe being able to come up with a safety plan with them and have them leave, go home. Follow up in the community. I want to back up though. Yeah, please, I feel like I'm jumping right into that?
Speaker 1:No, you're doing great.
Speaker 3:yeah, but you were asking about how I, like, came to what I do right. Yeah, you know, I've been a social worker for um.
Speaker 2:This year is like my 19th year, wow, so um you're only like 30 years old, yep, yeah, that's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3:But I, um you know, I've been health care my entire career. I was very fortunate. Prior to becoming a social worker, I was a dialysis technician and I think that's the first time I knew that.
Speaker 1:I don't think I knew that until this moment.
Speaker 3:And while I was a dialysis technician, I met this really wonderful social worker named Katie, who saw how I had interacted with our patients, and she's the first one that suggested hey, maybe you should be a social worker, try going to social work school.
Speaker 1:Was that here?
Speaker 3:at Emanuel? It was not. It was actually at Good Sam. I moved to Oregon back in 99 to work at Good Samaritan Hospital as a dialysis technician and anyway. So from there I decided to go to social work school, get my master's in social work. By that point I had transferred and started working at Providence at St Vincent's Hospital in their dialysis clinic, and I was lucky enough that when I graduated high school they transitioned me into a job as a social worker at the hospital. So my whole career from 2004,.
Speaker 3:2005 till now has been in the medical field. Wow.
Speaker 2:So you kind of became a social worker by something somebody saw in you when you were doing a different job, yeah, yeah, and I've just really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3:I've had a whole host of experiences, you know. So I started working as an inpatient social worker in a neuro stroke floor and then moved from there into hospice and home health and palliative care and helped start the Providence home health palliative care program back, you know when that started and then transitioned from there into a clinic because I was involved in a pretty serious car accident and didn't want to be driving around all day anymore. Yeah, but the clinic life was not something I enjoyed as much, it was very. It was just much different than being in a hospital or being in a hospice care, and so I really wanted to kind of move out of that and moved from there into emergency work, working in the emergency room, and that's where I really found the joy that I have in my career.
Speaker 1:That's so good. Yeah, what is it you think about the emergency that brings you that joy?
Speaker 3:You know, I think what I like about it is it's just something different every day. I never know what I'm going to walk into. There's always, you know, you have to be ready for whatever's going to come in, and I think that's what. That's what's gotten me hooked, you know, for all these years.
Speaker 1:Well, and I could say you, you definitely embody that sense of being ready, like cause I. You're one of the first faces I remember when I first came here working as an intern chaplain who I met in the emergency department, and you, just you always have carried that presence to me about being settled and like like you're ready for whatever comes, like you definitely have that. I can see why Katie would have named that from you, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so it's just been something that I've really enjoyed, you know, and it just keeps me coming back time and time again. You know, in my private life I also have a private practice, and I would never want to just do that all the time. Right, I love my clients, I love providing therapy to people, but at the same time, I don't get the same type of satisfaction that I get from what happens here at the hospital the teamwork, the people. I would be awfully lonely if I was in private practice all the time.
Speaker 2:I've been around you a lot in the ED.
Speaker 2:You are never lonely, that is true, that is so true, the ED is a place that's just like a hive. It just buzzes down there. The energy in there sometimes is just. You can feel it as soon as you walk through the doors and I just think it's really unique and admirable to have a social worker such as yourself who really appreciates that environment and seems to maintain, at least from this side of things, a pretty mature level of sanity through it all and groundedness in the midst of the work. Yeah, it is stressful. You see some desperate situations, whether it's a trauma, one car accident, or somebody's mother has just died, or whether it's somebody who has been experiencing houselessness and substance abuse disorder and has continued to relapse and making those sorts of choices and now their life is coming to an end. And would you be willing to talk about some of like the the more stressful side of it, like the parts where you feel yourself kind of challenged, or Well, I think you mentioned all of the ways in which I'm challenged and other people are challenged down there.
Speaker 3:right, it's, it's, it's all of those things that, um, you know, it's the. I guess we see the best of humanity and the worst of humanity, kind of all at the same time. You know, all in the same day, um, and I think for me, the, the remembrance is this is not my life, it's not my trauma, it's not something that I need to take on as my own, and that's what I do, or remember, in order to continue to provide the work that I do.
Speaker 2:This is happening in the world, with or without me. Correct, this is just happening. Yes, that's something I tell folks a lot when they ask about how I maintain sanity. This is just happening, and if I can be there and be of help, then that's what I want to do, right?
Speaker 1:You said you see the best of humanity, you see the worst of humanity. Can you say more about what you're seeing or what you mean by that?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean on any given day. I mean we see people who you know maybe committing crimes or you know bad things against other people, and we see the people who are running toward that to try and fix it, you know. So it's a little of both. It's really we're the social safety net of our city sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it feels a little dangerous sometimes being that.
Speaker 3:It does feel dangerous but luckily, you know, our system has recognized that it's come to. You know something, you know serious has happened and now we've got a lot of protection or, you know, a lot of security. Who's there to help us?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you talked about it as this sense of like this trauma's not happening to me. You know it's happening to someone else. I'm here witnessing it. Have there been times where it was hard to keep that distinction?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I think there certainly is, but for myself, when I leave work, I leave it here, and so I try not to remember those things. I think remembering them might cause me some level of pain or hurt that I don't necessarily want to carry with me, and so I feel like I'm able to leave it. It's hard for me to recall you, to recall events or patients that people talk about, like saying, oh, do you remember so-and-so from a few weeks ago? I'm like not really I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:Because when I leave, I really try to leave it here.
Speaker 1:Okay. So how do you do that?
Speaker 3:I mean because I hear you saying that and I think of oh, just like that, it's a light switch, I turn it off. No, yeah, yeah that's great.
Speaker 1:I mean, that light switch is gonna make you really, really rich.
Speaker 3:I think it's really a matter of trying to have a good work-life balance right. Like I remember, when I was in graduate school, I was doing an internship at the VA and I lived out in Beaverton. I took the max into downtown every day and I was working at the VA with veterans who were having trauma and all sorts of like terrible things. And I was a young social worker, still kind of green and naive, and I would carry this stuff home with me every day and I would be up at night thinking about how can I change this, what can I do differently. And I started talking about that with my supervisor at the time and we devised this plan. She said allow yourself to think about it.
Speaker 3:It's fine, You're allowed to, but at some point you have to turn it off. And so for me, that turnoff point was when I was going home going through the tunnel. I turned it off right and forced myself to think about something else. Same thing going in in the morning when I went through the tunnel. Then I allowed myself to start thinking about it again. Does that?
Speaker 3:mean you could have potentially started thinking again about even a case from the night before, like when you were returning to work or If, yeah, if I wanted to, you know, but it was a conscious decision to be able to kind of just leave it where it was, because if I didn't, it was keeping me up at night. I realized then that if I was staying up all night worrying about my clients, what kind of clinician would I be the next day when I got there?
Speaker 3:and I hadn't had enough sleep and I was up all night worrying, and so for me it just was kind of like this ritual of you know when I got to the tunnel, I would stop thinking about work for the day. When I got to the tunnel again, I could start thinking. It was like a conscious decision.
Speaker 2:That's powerful I think those sorts of rituals are so important, and when it's one, that just the whole image of a tunnel going leading from one place to another is very vivid. You know, it's just kind of like now I'm going into this mode and I can be fully present on either side of the tunnel?
Speaker 3:Absolutely, I mean. I would certainly encourage others who might have trouble with that to think of something that they could do that might help. You're leaving your office at the end of the night. When you flip off the switch, maybe that's your moment to try your best to stop thinking about it. If work starts coming to your mind, force yourself to think about something else. Think about puppies, kittens, what's for dinner, but it's also, I think, what's also helpful is just having a positive work-life balance too. When you go home, if you've got other things to focus on, you're less likely to be thinking about your work.
Speaker 3:Oh good, you know like my spouse and I, we host foreign exchange students and we're super busy with that. We get involved in our community, we volunteer, we do all sorts of things that keep our minds busy so that we're able to then, when work comes back around, we're able to be our best selves at work and not be carrying all sorts of stress or anxiety with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I really love that image, the idea of that tunnel, and at first when you said I just switch it off, I thought you were joking, but you're not entirely joking about that. I'm curious, like how long did it take for that ritual to be effective for you?
Speaker 3:Well, in that moment it probably took me a few weeks, but you know it was.
Speaker 3:It was really through that my supervisor there at the VA that I learned that process right and throughout my career now I've learned, you know, there is a an actual process happening right. This, this is a practice of mindfulness. You know, you can even practice that through meditation. You happening right, this, this is a practice of mindfulness. You know. You can even practice that through meditation. You know it's this, it's this conscious thought that you're just allowing things to, to be what they are. You know, someone once told me this, this story, and I don't know if I've shared this with either of you before, but like, if you think of yourself standing on the edge of the freeway and you're looking down at all the traffic that's passing by, you see the trucks and the buses and the cars, everything's just whizzing by super fast and you know it doesn't hurt you, it doesn't bother you. But imagine if you take a step into it Right Now the cars are screeching, people are yelling, giving you the middle finger.
Speaker 3:You Cars are screeching, people are yelling, giving you the middle finger. You might even get hit by a car right, like if you can think about your thoughts in that way, right?
Speaker 1:Like if you can just be an observer of them rather than inserting yourself into it and then having to have those feelings. That's where it really you know, that's where it gets to you. That just sounds to me like it's a different way of being present to the reality we live in way, of being present to the reality we live in. Because what I realize so many times when I'm talking with people who don't work in an environment like a level one trauma, is day-to-day. They're not seeing the things that we're seeing, but those are happening in the world that all of us live in. You're just not aware of it. And I'm hearing you say there's a different way of being present to it.
Speaker 3:You're here at work, you're very engaged, you're very involved, you're there helping people, but there's an opportunity to step back from all of that too, you can be a conscious observer of what's happening, without allowing it to stick to you and have you bring it home to your family or allow it to cause you some level of distress, to cause you some level of distress and I can definitely see how both sides of the tunnel serve each other.
Speaker 2:because if you're having a challenging day in the ED, it strikes me one of the things I'd be curious to hear you talk about is, in the ED culture, different colleagues have different thresholds and sometimes colleagues will for lack of a better word burnout or I like your image step into the traffic and we kind of live in that, live in that setting of other people around us really being impacted by it.
Speaker 2:Um, so put a pin in that. But but you live in this really kind of fast paced ed world and you are so incredibly present. I mean, I have walked by and just seen you giving tender attention to somebody on on a, on a bed and in a hallway covered in who knows what eating who knows what, and you're just looking at this individual with just nothing short of compassion and full attention. And I would imagine what I'm hearing you say is part of what's able to allow you to give that attention is, you know, on the other side of that tunnel is your home and your life and your activities and your spouse and your exchange students, um, and that's not all stress-free. That brings a different form of stress, but it's like this isn't. I've got a tunnel to go through and I'm going to be over there.
Speaker 2:Right, but it's like this isn't. I've got a tunnel to go through and I'm going to be over there, right? It allows you to be especially present in this moment, right? So how do you, in that moment just to go back to my question how do you attend to the stress of others Like um, or is that just another? Oh, that's just another car going by me?
Speaker 3:It is. I mean, it is another car going by, but at the same time it's just being present and allowing people to vent their frustrations, but maybe not necessarily allow whatever's frustrating to them now become frustrating to me.
Speaker 2:Right, we experience things differently there's a we're in this together kind of thing. Uh, just this morning I was, uh happened to be around you in the ED and a paramedic brought somebody in and you said to the paramedic oh look, it's you again. Here you are again. You just like to come back here and the look that this paramedic gave you was one of being seen.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And like we're in this you know, I don't want to minimize those moments because I think that that's a space, right, and which we just kind of lock eyes and be like here we are again doing this work, but we're not alone as we're doing this work and it's very stressful what we're in this together, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, when, when we were talking about having this conversation with you, david, I in my mind I envision being able to just like heap praise on you because of how much I admire your presence there. I thought, man, if we could just start the podcast by seeing how long it takes us to get you to blush, by telling you how much we, how, how, how highly we think of you. But but I have singer fan, yeah, and I have noticed that so much too, like the connection, the relationships you have with so many of the EMTs coming in and people from all over, and and then just that presence.
Speaker 3:I mean I think it is such a tremendous gift to be able to give that environment so yeah, I mean, I just I like making those connections with people right, Because I feel like in in creating these positive interactions, I'm more likely in the future to get I mean, I don't want it to sound transactional, but I'm able to get the information more so to do my job that I need. Um, then, if I'm, you know, cold and mean, yeah, you know, I feel like in a sense there's, you know, you get you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting to hear you say that, because so many times I feel like we run up against terms like compassion, fatigue, like the idea that being compassionate is going to almost wear us out sooner. And I see you even shaking your head at that.
Speaker 3:No, not at all yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you want to say more about that I don't know if I have anything else to say. You just disagree with it. No, no.
Speaker 3:Well, I find that, you know. Yes, sometimes I get stressed and I feel like, oh, I don't know if I can do this much longer, but then the day's over and tomorrow's a fresh new day and I come in, and it's. I come in with my cup full and I'm ready to go again.
Speaker 1:You know what it sounds like, those rituals of shutting it off, of going into the things that really bring you vitality. That's what helps fill that cup back up again. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's the sense too of, you know, living to work versus working to live, right Like I. I mean, I understand. Yes, this is my job, this is what I need to do, but it's not all of who I am Right. It's not what brings me all of my value in my life, right, right.
Speaker 2:That's great.
Speaker 1:You also in my observation again this could be.
Speaker 2:We're. You have good boundaries in work around what you do and don't do as a social worker. We have similar jobs in which sometimes we get asked to do things that just really aren't in our scope of practice, and you seem to have no problem being like no, you know we. You even did that to me recently, which I wanted to bring up. I had brought a person and I was like, can you help with this? And you laughed me out of the room. You're like no.
Speaker 1:I don't remember this Well well you wouldn't you shut it off at the at the tunnel.
Speaker 2:This person was just it wasn't a patient and wanted some specific help, and you were like if they're not a patient, I'm not going to help them. Are you new to this? Get out of. You know, and I really respect that because that's a boundary that keeps you, keeps you clicking in this job. It's like, no, I don't do that. This is what I do and I'm going to do what I do really well, right. And the things I don't do, that's. That's somebody else's job.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Our supervisor has a term about that. She says be kind but not helpful, like when it's not yours to do. You don't need to be helpful and be kind but not helpful. Set that boundary.
Speaker 3:I mean there are certain times where I will go over and above and help, but it's when I have the time to be able to do that. You know, I mean our job is just so busy that I mean there are certainly lots of things that I would love to be able to help with and do and I just am not able to, right, you know, either because time limitations or resource limitations. I mean this is, you know, the realities of what we do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to know that, have awareness of it just seems to make it you're just much able to do your job to the fullest, that you're able to do your job Right, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you've talked a lot about different things that you've done to like care for yourself, you know, or to even manage the um, stressful encounters that it's. It's amazing to me how much your ritual has almost, like, cleansed your mind of some of those what can be like secondhand trauma, almost that you can encounter. But I'm curious are there other practices that you think of that you say? These are some things that have really just sustained me and helped, you know, keep my sanity, keep me invigorated, both for for work and for life outside of work.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, I certainly think, um, meditation is super helpful for me. I don't know if your previous guests have talked about this at all, but you know, for me, spending at least, you know, five to 10 minutes a day of just kind of clearing my mind and allowing myself to kind of just be, be present with just myself, I mean I think I've shared with you for a while, especially during COVID. I would do that here at the hospital. I would go down to the chapel and just sit in the chapel and just, you know, allow myself to meditate, allow everything to pass by me, but clear my mind and just feel grounded and able to return to what I was doing and that's like during the shift, correct?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would come during my lunch hour or during my 15 minute break.
Speaker 3:So I mean, that was certainly super helpful. I still, you know, to this day, we'll do it time to time, but not nearly as much. I think I need to kind of get back to that.
Speaker 1:I could see how that doing it actually in the environment where you're working at can help with that idea of that kind of watching the passing traffic rather than getting caught up in it. Correct, yeah, so meditation, that ritual of going through the tunnel, yep.
Speaker 3:Or going for walks. You know, especially during my lunch break, going for a walk around the campus. There's a beautiful loop around. It's about a mile and you can do it in 20 minutes if you're a fast-paced walker, which is great. It helps clear my mind, helps me to be more present when I get back, wakes me up, gives me fresh air.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it gets the body moving gets out of the hospital space for a minute, because sometimes it can just feel like a big box, Absolutely. I mean, I encourage all of my coworkers to take their breaks. Some of them just like to sit in the office all day. I'm like come on, get out, Move move, move.
Speaker 1:Enjoy the sunshine. But I think that I mean, I kind of hear that theme from you too. I can see how the work sometimes you can get so focused where it's just like, all right, I'm just staying locked in and you get so attached to it. And what I'm hearing from you is really just these practices that keep boundaries between yourself and your work, even while you're working, so it's like you know the work is still going to be there when I get back, um, you know.
Speaker 3:So I'm not. I'm not worried that it's not going to be there or that somebody else has to pick up my slack. You know it's, it's going to be there, and so I I know I can go take my break, take care of myself, so then I can come back and take care of others.
Speaker 2:That just seems like such a good balance, david, I can imagine having, as you know, both my parents were social workers, and I saw the ins and outs of dealing in social work, and one of the one of the challenging things about it is there's just way more work to be done than can ever be done.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Because human beings are need work. That's what a social worker does and there can be a temptation to kind of have a hero complex or just be so overwhelmed by it that you feel like you have to do everything and I I think it speaks to your maturity and and boundaries and a healthy, a healthy detachment right From the work. There's very unhealthy detachment that we see, but a healthy detachment that says I can step out and it's going to help me provide better care when I come back to do what I do. That's kind of what I'm hearing you say.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. There's just so much work out there I can't do it all Right, and it's like I said, it's just going to be there when I get back. It's. There's just a multitude of things that have to be completed within you know, the short time that I'm here and I just I can't get to it all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Well, you have such a great perspective and I love hearing the way you've established those boundaries and those rituals. I'm curious. You talked about the work's going to be there when you come back and how you got drawn to it. What is it that keeps you coming back to the work?
Speaker 3:What keeps me coming back are, you know, first of all, feeling like I'm being of service. I think that's important, knowing that I'm doing good work and helping people in some way. I think also the relationships that I build with others continues to make me come back to work, right, I'd like to foster those relationships and those friendships and continue to get to know my coworkers and patients too that we see over and over again. So those are some of the things that really keeps me coming back and I really enjoy for myself the very different types of work that I do. Right, I don't just do one thing here, so I really feel like it keeps me kind of sharp in a sense.
Speaker 3:And I also like coming back because it's something different from what I do in my private practice. In my private practice, I'm working with individuals who you know might have some depression or anxiety kind of, you know, struggling a little bit with life transitions. But then when I come here, this is where I see people who are, you know, having a psychotic break or have schizophrenia, or you know who were involved in a serious car accident and they're dying and their loved ones are, you know, having a rough time. So it's kind of there's that dichotomy of you know two different worlds and I really enjoy being able to kind of have a toe in each.
Speaker 1:I imagine that adds a great deal of depth to when you're working. In each of them you have that larger awareness, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, David, it's just so fun to talk to you, my friend Um. You know, just on a personal note, you've you've been a true friend to me for a couple of years now and I I value that, Um, we'll never forget back in December, when I had my own health crisis, which led to mental health crisis, and we were just chatting on a text and you gave me resources that I needed and you just simply said you know you don't have to do this alone, you're not alone, and um just meant a lot to me, um, and I'm thankful for who you are in this world and the work that you do Thanks here, and I think that's true.
Speaker 3:You're not alone. You know there's a lot of people who care about you, care about you, know your situation and want nothing but the best for you, and I think you know that comes from you, also in the relationships that you build with other people. So thank you, david.
Speaker 2:And I think people often aren't as alone as they might feel when they're in these moments. That's one of the things we get to do in these jobs is help them be. You know, I tell patients all the time when they're in difficult situations. I just want you to know two things You're safe right now and you're with people who want to help you.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:You're not alone and you're in the safest place you can be right now. It doesn't mean everything's going to end up All right, you know, even with those end up losing your life or or not ending up well, but those are two things you can kind of anchor to.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and I think another thing, too that helps me is just remembering, when we're dealing with a lot of the pain and the trauma and, you know, the death that we see is, when we meet people here at the hospital, we're seeing them on maybe the worst day of their life, and for us it's just another day. This is what we do every day, and so that's why, when I'm working with individuals, I remind myself that this could be their worst day, and so that's what helps me muster my compassion in those moments when I'm really feeling like, oh, I'm not sure I can do this right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:That is great Cause. Trauma is trauma as we all know and that that can. It takes maturity to see. You know, we'll see things at the hospital and then, like you know, one of my kids is complaining about a bad grade and I'm like, oh, buddy, yeah, but that's not true. What is true is this is still the worst thing that's happened and I'm like, oh, buddy, yeah, but that's not true. What is true is this is still the worst thing that's happened. To honor that and respect that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, anything else that you'd want to add, or you that you wish you'd said.
Speaker 3:No, but it's so funny. I remember I was telling Aaron that I was just so nervous and anxious about doing this. I'm not, you know, I'm not much of a talker in terms of like getting up in front of people or and so to recognize that I was coming somewhere and having myself recorded, I was like just having this huge anxiety attack. But you've made it easy. So good.
Speaker 2:I am so deeply grateful you did. Yeah, and you were at the top of our list from the first time we started talking about people. You should know that, and thanks for taking the risk in doing it. You're welcome. I've appreciated this hour.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean I really admire, like I've said, the way you show up and it's just been great to hear about some of the work that you put in to create that self differentiation between you and the work and the other pieces and to be able to just keep coming back and giving that compassionate care. So thank you David.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much and it shows up in your work.
Speaker 2:Singing singers praises you like that.
Speaker 3:Is that the name of the new podcast? It's going to be our new podcast. There it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, your spouse will tune it out. I'm sure, like David, doesn't need that. Wow.
Speaker 1:What a great conversation that was with David Aaron. How much did you love just hearing him talk about this idea of the, the tunnel vision, the way that he just practices his mindfulness so he can self-differentiate between who he is as a person and who he is as a worker. And also, just let me ask you on your way home today, are you going to use that tunnel technique?
Speaker 2:No, I did After we interviewed David, which was a while ago. I drive through a tunnel to go home In fact, it's the same tunnel he used to drive through, I think, to get to the VA in his story and I absolutely thought about it and here's, here's, here's how it landed with me. For me, it was less. For me, it was less about turning off what happened at work and more about turning on what was about to happen at home. So so, like what am I looking forward to? For healthy coping, for good living at home? So so, like what am I looking forward to?
Speaker 2:Uh, for healthy coping, for good living at home? Uh, you know, like, like what brings me life outside of the hospital? Um, it's kind of a really cool like, as we talk about in the episode, it's kind of a a disengagement in a in a healthy way. It's not like just pretending like it didn't happen, but but really like utilizing kind of both areas of of your life, and so it. You know, I put that right into practice. I really did. I started thinking about my little garden, I'm starting at home and spending time with my family that night. Like what am I looking forward to? Uh, outside of work?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I love it. When he was talking about it, I thought of you, cause I knew you drove through that tunnel and I know that sometimes that tunnel can be excruciatingly painful as far as far as the traffic coming and going.
Speaker 2:Can I tell you a little secret about my tunnel drive every day.
Speaker 1:Tell me you don't close your eyes through the whole tunnel.
Speaker 2:I close my eyes and I hold my breath. No, no, Whenever I'm in the tunnel, that's when I always check my email on the phone. Just kidding, that's a joke. No, what I do is and I don't know why I do this, but it brings me such great joy I always do shave and a haircut on my horn and I wait for somebody to answer back. And if they really I do and if they answer back, I know it's going to be a good transition. And if I forget to do it and sometimes this job can make you a little too superstitious you know, I'm a little bit like Michael Scott. I'm not superstitious, but I'm a little stitious yeah.
Speaker 2:If I, if I forget to do shaving the haircut, I'm like dang it. Now, that's going to be a terrible day but I had no idea. I do every morning and I'll tell you. I don't know what my stats are, but they're pretty high. Yeah, portlanders like a good joke and we're often going slow through the tunnel and I'll just keep going and if nobody answers, I go, and then somebody be like huh, that is fantastic.
Speaker 1:Well, add that to your list of rituals for how you can do a little bit of coping and emotional processing. I think that's great.
Speaker 2:Horn coping?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know if that's a for you.
Speaker 2:I better copyright it quick. Well, I guess you could say I'm horny.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, okay, wow, um, so, on that note, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. We're very excited about next week's episode with Chelsea Neubauer, a nurse from the neurotrauma ICU unit. Can't wait for you to hear more about her story. Um and Aaron.
Speaker 2:Yeah, please listen in. You know, one of the things we've we've learned from our little time doing this is it really honors the practitioners, the, the guests that we've had on really feel honored by having their story listened to, and so please share it. Find a friend, think of somebody who might appreciate it If some of the reviews we've we've received and some of the people we've talked to, they don't necessarily have to be in in healthcare and in fact, in some ways, it's good for people that aren't in healthcare to kind of hear about the stresses and hear about how you know their nurses and doctors and other people are taking care of them and what they do to take care of themselves. It's it's hopefully it's comforting to know the people that are taking care of your body when you're in the hospital, like like what they do and are coping with the stress of it. So share it up.
Speaker 2:Chelsea's fantastic. She's going to bring us a great conversation. She works on the neurotrauma unit in the ICU, um, and I think you're really going to enjoy her episode. So please share it like it. Leave us a review. Uh, there's a way to get in touch with us, I know, on Spotify and Apple, um, so we'd love to hear from you, positive or negative. Well, positive, thanks for listening and, you know, honestly, thanks for listening to these wonderful people's stories and honoring what they do every day.
Speaker 1:They really are awesome all right, can't wait till next time. Thank you.