The In-Between with Elizabeth Cheney
Hey there! I'm Elizabeth Cheney, host of The In-Between. Each week I'm talking about life, relationships, work, mental health, pop culture, and wait for it... all the things in-between. No matter how vulnerable, no matter how ridiculous, I'll cover it all, leaving you empowered and entertained. So what are you waiting for? Join me in navigating life's in-between's - new episodes every Wednesday!
The In-Between with Elizabeth Cheney
In-Between: What's it like to be Introverted w/ Jay & Steph from Stay Introverted
We've all heard the word introvert, but what exactly does that mean? Jay and Steph from the Stay Introverted podcast join me on this week's In-Between and answer that very question and also explain how two introverts started a podcast.
In this week's episode, the three of us talk about:
- What is an introvert? What does it mean to be introverted?
- Misconceptions and unfair stereotypes about introverted individuals
- Differences between introverts and extroverts and how they play off each other
- Social dynamics and personal relationships between introverts and extroverts
- How the pandemic highlighted the introverted community
- What your introverted friends want you to know
As an extrovert myself, I learned SO much from Jay and Steph about being introverted. Heck, this conversations even made me question myself - am I fully extroverted? Another question, has my extroversion affected my introverted husband? **laughs nervously**
I also joined Jay and Steph on their podcast, so be sure to check that out too!
If you want to keep up with the Stay Introverted crew, you can follow them here:
The podcast @stayintrovertedpodcast
Jay @sincerelyanintrovert (this is where you can check out his apparel brand!)
Steph @introspective_af (don't forget to check out her other two podcasts!)
Connect with me:
https://in-between.co
@in.betweenpod on Instagram
@elizabethcheney_ on Instagram
@theinbetweenpodcast on TikTok
The In-Between Podcast on YouTube
Hey, hey, hey. Welcome back to another episode of the In-Between podcast. I'm your host, Elizabeth Cheney, and y'all, I've got some special guests in the his house. Okay. So yes, I've been on this theme of guests and I know you guys are loving it. I have Jay and Steph of the stay introverted podcast here. yes, I'm sure you're wondering what an interesting dynamic, introverts, extroverts, but just guess what, we vibe. It's awesome. I was on their podcast, it was the best. And then I was like, y'all, come on mine. And here we are. So, uh, just to give you guys a little like 4 1 1 on who Jay and Stef are, and then I'll intro them on the pod. So Steph, even though she claims to be an introvert, she hosts three podcasts, which I think is wild. Can't wait to get into that. And Jay, who also claims to be an introvert, runs a rather successful clothing brand on Instagram as well. So, let these two introverts fool you. They're pretty badass. So, Jay, Steph, welcome to the in-Between.
Steph Laffey:Thank you so much. That was such an awesome intro.
Jay Coleman:Yes, definitely. Thanks for having us.
Elizabeth Cheney:I honestly love the intros'cause it feels like my pep rally because that's how I think about it in my head. I'm like, okay, let's tee it up because like, I'm hype, you're hype. Boom. But uh, yeah. So, um, yes, as I was mentioning in the intro, we recorded an episode the other day with you two. I wrote, I said we, I, my gosh, I said, we talking about myself on y'all's podcast too. I think I need to like talk to somebody about that.'cause that's weird. But we, uh, we, I, we all got along really well. We were vibing and we had such a cool conversation. Beautiful conversation too. We talked about jellyfish, SpongeBob, the Super Bowl. I don't know. But anyways, Jay and stuff are pretty awesome yeah, they claim to be introverts, which I think is so interesting'cause we talked about goodness gracious, everything and then some the other day.
Steph Laffey:Oh yeah, we covered the whole gamut.
Jay Coleman:Yeah, I think it was our, our longest episode for our podcast.
Steph Laffey:Yeah, I think I mentioned that to Liz today. Like in the dms, I was like, I think it was our longest episode, but it flew by like we. All of a sudden it was an hour and a half and my stomach is growling, my headphones are dead. I'm like, the dog is looking at me like, what the fuck are you doing, mom? And I'm over here podcasting like, but it, it was amazing. I didn't want it to end. And I was, the only reason I did allow it to end was because I knew we had this scheduled today.
Elizabeth Cheney:Exactly. Jay, similar sentiment when I came outta my office, I was like, oh crap, it's like almost eight and Stan, my husband's like, yeah, you were having fun, weren't you? I was like, yeah, we were having a great time.
Jay Coleman:Yeah, it was definitely fun. You know, we were there for hour and a half, hour and 45 minutes and we, I didn't even notice. but we definitely, when we got out, I was so hungry.
Steph Laffey:Oh yeah.
Elizabeth Cheney:I'll probably be the same tonight too. I'm like already prepared. I told, I told Stan, I was like, just make sure dinner's ready.'cause I know I'm gonna be like ravenous when I get finished with this. Um, but I, I have to ask this first question before we even start as to self-proclaimed introverts. Why the heck did you start a podcast?
Jay Coleman:Uh, so I guess I, I can answer this
Steph Laffey:yeah. Yeah. You answered.
Jay Coleman:So,
Elizabeth Cheney:And then also tell me how you two met.
Jay Coleman:uh, well, Steph and I met a little over a year ago. Um, Steph invited me to collaborate with her on, on IG Live and, you know, we actually work great together. We've col we've collaborated several times and that's actually what motivated me to reach out to Chef, I think in summer of 2023 to ask her if she wanted to do a podcast with me.'cause I feel like I, as much as I say, I don't like to talk and I'm, I'm very quiet. I do have things that I actually. Like talking about, um, but actually, you know, I enjoy having genuine, meaningful conversations and Steph and I, you know, we, we just click, we always have cool conversations. We talk about everything and anything. so I thought it would be, kind of a natural thing for us to, to kind of get together and join the podcast. And it is funny, I think Steph will tell you like, I don't think I even got the question out. And she was like, yes, don't do it. So,
Steph Laffey:He's like, what? Do you know what I'm about to ask you? Like, be careful now, but yeah, exactly. You, you always tell the story way better than I do, so thank you for that.
Elizabeth Cheney:And I mean, I was checking out your clothing brand, Jay, like you've got a huge following. How long have you been doing that?
Jay Coleman:Um, only it's, it's funny'cause Steph actually talks about my following more than I do.'cause I actually don't like, I don't like, I don't
Elizabeth Cheney:I love it. He's a humble man. He's a
Steph Laffey:Yes.
Elizabeth Cheney:man.
Jay Coleman:I, I, I, I, yeah, I, I try to be, um, because I guess for me it's, it's more about building a community as opposed to whatever that number happens to be. Um, that, that's really what I try to lead with. I'm not just, if I'm fortunate enough to get a hundred or whatever, a thousand followers, great, but I'm, I'm not really focused on the number. I'm focused on helping, helping introverts, uh, feel, heard, seen, understood. But I've really only been in the space maybe a year and a half. Um, so not, not very long. and it's. Definitely been challenging as introvert.'cause I'm trying to like navigate these in, in these, uh, internet streets. And it's a lot of noise.
Elizabeth Cheney:introductories,
Jay Coleman:It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's very noisy. Um, but I, I've been, uh, very fortunate and humbled to see that there are so many people out here who share, um, the same story that, that I do. And that step has so it is, it is been really cool.
Elizabeth Cheney:oh, I love that. I mean, obviously yes.'cause like I didn't realize that you'd just been doing this for that little of time and that is beautiful, substantial growth. So yeah, there's absolutely a need for this conversation, this community. And you know, if after our conversation on your pod, I obviously understand the need for community and like why that's so valuable.'cause like we think we're alone. And then once we have just at least one person feel like similar, that just takes so much pressure and the shame off. So I think that's so, so cool. okay, so let's, let's get into it.'cause I kind of thought today's episode we would talk about introversion. Um, I'm extroverted, so I think I am going to learn a lot. Um, and I thought we could talk about boundaries and you know how you were saying Jay, like it's, it's hard out here. Um. I do agree social media is very loud and noisy. So I, I commend you for fighting the good fight and being so consistent. I can, my A DH ADHD can barely handle it, but I, I wanna get into, like, I wrote introvert power, cause I have this whole spiel that my anxiety, I always say is superpower. So I'm curious, do you think, do either of you, do both of you feel the same way about being introverted?
Steph Laffey:Absolutely. I actually also have a DHD, so I'm, I've just got a whole bunch of shit going on, which, um,
Elizabeth Cheney:I love it. You're in light.
Steph Laffey:Yeah,
Elizabeth Cheney:Well, you're in light company.
Steph Laffey:so I, I think introversion is definitely a superpower because we get deep, like I, a lot of extroverts, and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't wanna, you know, group you all into this like, you know thing. But a lot of extroverts tend to value quantity over like quality. So if I'm at a party and I'm there for three hours, I'm probably talking to three people. But I'm having the deepest best like most amazing conversation of my life with those three people. Whereas my extroverted friends probably work the entire room and they come back and they're like, you're in the same spot I left you. And it's like, that to me is the best example I can think of, of why introversion is a superpower. And normally it's not even about anything that deep. Like yesterday we were talking about anything and everything, and that's just my style of conversation. I can get into it, but I have to be really comfortable with the person that I'm talking to. Um, and once I realize that the vibe is there, I just don't wanna leave.
Jay Coleman:yeah, I think Steph hit it right on, hit on the head. You know, um, plus we're, we're also able to kind of, not just read the room, but read people you know, like, like said, said, when, when that vibe is very good, we just don't want, don't wanna leave. And sometimes it seems or can seem kind of random because we do go from topic to topic, but for us it's just a very natural transition. and when we're having, you know, when our vibe is right, we just, we, we literally don't wanna leave. We can just talk about anything. Talk, talk for hours. Um, I guess the only thing is that after that talk, you know, we definitely gotta go, go recharge for a while, but during, during the time we were there, we, like, we're, we're probably having the time of our lives and you know, like I said, it doesn't have to be with, uh, the entire room or a large group of people. It can get speed with two or three. And that's, and that's fine. It's interesting though,'cause listen, in my experience, um, what ends up happening is that, you know, people see me. Kind of, I guess, you know, I, I stick out'cause I'm not a small person, but people see me like in one space for like the duration of the event. But I'm having a, I'm having a, you know, not, not intense, but having a good discussion and people kind of just gravitate towards you kind of trying to figure out why, you know, I'm working the room and I'm having, you know, a, a good time, but this person is staying right here. And having like an, an equal, fun, what's going on. So in my experience, like introverts kind of attract other people into their space.
Elizabeth Cheney:work the room. You work the room in your own
Steph Laffey:I worked the room just by standing there and talking.
Jay Coleman:You.
Steph Laffey:You come to me,
Elizabeth Cheney:Well, it's probably'cause the energy, like radiates like connection and obviously probably like a safe space, but it's not surface level. Right. You're gonna be getting some kind of tether there. interesting. I'm listening to you and I'm also like dissecting myself'cause like I am very extroverted. Like I love people. Like I, I I can go talk, I can read the room, I can run the room, I can do the whole thing. But I also love and have a innate need for that connection that you're talking about too. I'm curious. So you're saying like, when I'm comfortable and the vibe's there. Okay. Yeah, we'll go there. We'll have the deep talk. We'll go to all the levels. Whatever you wanna do, baby. We'll go down to the Titanic. See, I can do that too, but like I can do that within five minutes. How does that make you feel? Is that overwhelming? Are you like, whoa.
Steph Laffey:Oh yeah. I mean, I just, I think that a lot of people, like, I just don't necessarily, and this is gonna sound really mean, but whatever, um, it's honest. A lot of people, I just don't want to go that deep with like,
Elizabeth Cheney:Mm,
Steph Laffey:I have to, like, yeah. Like I have to, like, connect with you and I, I actually get deep fast, but like, I don't necessarily want to get deep with everybody, so I gotta feel you out. See if like, I. If, if this is gonna work, like, I don't know, I, I like to feel it out before I get into that because I know once I get into that deep conversation, I might not be able to lead. Like, you know, the conversation might interest them so much. And then I'm not really good at, I wish exiting in the middle of a conversation. Um,
Elizabeth Cheney:I
Steph Laffey:like I don't know how to leave. So if I'm going to go down that road, I better wanna be there because I'm gonna be here for a while.
Jay Coleman:So Steph was actually very nice. Um, so I'll be, I'll be being the mean one right here and say that she, she's not wrong. She's definitely, she's a hundred percent correct. Um, I would just say that not everybody is worth getting deep with
Elizabeth Cheney:Mm-Hmm.
Jay Coleman:that take that how, how you want it. But that's just the truth because, we just don't have as much energy to spare as far as, you know, social, social interactions. We. We value our energy just like we value, um, the quality of our friendships and the quality of any discussion that we have and step's, right? We're not trying to get deep with everyone because we value, you know, we value the quality of those discussions. Like if you're getting deep with everyone, then what's a deep conversation? Um, also
Steph Laffey:and it's exhausting.
Jay Coleman:it is, yes, it is very, very exhausting. Um, and, and like I said before, not everyone is worth getting deep with or getting deep for. We kind
Steph Laffey:And wait, can I just make a caveat with that? Because I agree, but what I wanna say is I don't, I think everybody is worth getting deep with. Not necessarily for me, like maybe like Sally. Like Sally is just Sally and I just aren't gonna hit it off. But she might hit it off really well with Bob. Like, and that I love that for them. But like, I don't wanna waste anyone's time like,'cause you know, Jill might be over here waiting to talk to me and Jill and I might be about to have the greatest conversation ever. I don't wanna waste Sally's time or Bob's time or Jill's time, like, who are these people? I don't know, but like, can't wait to meet all of you.
Jay Coleman:Yes. That. No, that's a good point. That's a very good point. You know, you don't, you don't wanna waste people's time. You know, we, we might hit up with this one, this one person on these two people. The rest of y'all can go chill with Bob. That's, you know, have fun. You know. No, no, no hard feelings. Um, for me personally, also, I have no problem leaving. So that's also why I, I try not,
Elizabeth Cheney:He can Irish goodbye.
Jay Coleman:that's also why I try not, not to talk to a bunch of people.'cause some people may take it. How do you take it? Um, I, I'm at a point in my life where I, I value my energy. Um, I'm not gonna be rude, but I'm definitely gonna let you know when the, when this, this chat is, is over.
Elizabeth Cheney:Yeah, and I guess I should also buffer what my original statement, I it back in the day. Not that the day was that long ago, but like back in, back when I was younger, uh, I, I would ex like exude that energy to everybody and I have learned boundaries. But, I think for me is like I, in the initial interaction. If I feel like I can't get deep with you, then I, I don't know. Not that surface level relationships are bad, and not that everyone needs to be your best friend, but I, that's just where I'm at in my life. So I think that I do have some boundaries with that too.'cause it is too much just to give it to everybody. So that, that kind of is a great segue into the next thing I wanted to ask was about boundaries.'cause everything that you both described to me is also, or could be interpreted as like a boundary as well. Like you're very self-aware of your energy. Um, I'm just curious, like what are some boundaries that you. That you guys utilize, um, not just in your day to day, but let's say boundary boundaries in your day to day. Yes. But boundaries, like before you go to a party, like, or a social outing, do you have like a routine or a system like to kind of check yourself, ground yourself boundaries before a family function, boundaries before you're about to go do something where you know you're gonna be uncomfortable. Like maybe, you know, maybe that is a family thing, I don't know. But yeah, let's talk boundaries.
Steph Laffey:Um, so for me, I am still figuring out my boundaries.'cause I only learned I was an introvert like a year or two ago. A little more than that. Um, so I used to just basically burn the candle at both ends and have zero boundaries and hate everyone and wonder why I was so miserable. Like, I, it's like, it was like, but I didn't want anybody to feel that negative, miserable energy.'cause I'm, I'm naturally, even though I'm introverted, I'm also an upbeat, happy, positive person, which there's a lot that goes on in here. Um, and so I'm, I'm a people pleaser. I'm all the things. Um, so I like didn't want anybody to feel that way. So I just had no boundaries. I basically put everybody else above myself and I was left with absolutely nothing and I couldn't figure out why. So I'm still figuring out what works for me, what doesn't work for me. Um, a couple things is that when I have a really packed day, like a really, really crazy, busy day. I do something for me first. So whether that is starting the day reading a book that I'm currently really into starting the day, moving my body. So I'm really into like going to the gym and walking. Um, I'll do that. Something that is for me and me only and that is super selfish and like I just give myself that hour because if I give myself that hour, so introverts like to talk about how we have a battery. You've probably heard this, right?
Elizabeth Cheney:Mm-Hmm.
Steph Laffey:So I have to, if I know that I have a very long day ahead of me, full of people in full of like doing things for other people. Um, the verb in our world. so if it's full of people and I'm gonna be doing all these things, my battery, especially if I'm out and about and not able to like come home, my battery is slowly gonna go from 100 to like. Zero by the end of the day. So if I have an extra, extra long day, doing that thing for me in the morning gives me like, almost like it, it like supercharges me. So I'm like, I start the day at like 1 25, 1 30, whatever, and then I have a little extra zap. so if I don't get that time in, you don't get the best of me. And so one of my boundaries is like, I have to do this thing first. And like, I might be late and I'm sorry, but like, I'm gonna be late to my own funeral anyway, so like, whatever. Um, I'm always late because I have to get that in and people know I preface everything. Like I'm sorry, I'm probably gonna be late. But it's worth me showing up 10 minutes late because now you get me at one 30 rather than pissed off me at 90.
Elizabeth Cheney:We get you fully. No, that totally makes sense.
Steph Laffey:So I guess it's kind of a boundary, but it works.
Elizabeth Cheney:totally makes sense.
Jay Coleman:I think for me, I have two main ones. Uh, the first is I'm just not, I can't be around like a lot of noise. It, it makes me physically un uncomfortable. Um, so if, if there, if I'm in a place or a function and it just gets really loud for, a long amount of time I'm out, I'm out. I just can't, I can't deal with it. I gotta get somewhere quiet and just kind of like, um, decompress for a bit. My other boundary is that I have to do things in my own time. and I stand on that and that it means the same thing for getting to know people, letting people get to know me, socializing, talking like, you know, it takes as long as it takes. It's not, it's not on, on your schedule. some people I'm able to head off quick with some people. I'm not, uh, some folks, I just will never have anything more than like a good, you know, uh, a hey, how you doing, type of, of rapport. But I, I do things in my own time. I'm not gonna be forced to be someone's friend or forced to interact with someone more than I feel I feel comfortable doing. And it's, it that's gotten me in, into some situations growing up. But, but, you know, I'm, I'm, I've held firm on that because, you know, I, I value my energy and my battery, um, above pretty much everything else.
Elizabeth Cheney:I was just writing a question before I forgot it. Have you always like, so Steph, you said you found out like a year or so ago, Jay, have you always known that you were introverted? When did you find out?
Jay Coleman:I always know that I was different. Like I always knew that, you know, having a bunch of friends or going to parties, you know, being like to like social butterfly just wasn't important to me. Um, I used to, and I used to wonder why I thought something was wrong with me. Um, so I always knew I was different, but I just didn't know what it was really until probably a few years ago, um, where I actually learned about what Ivers is and what introverts are, um, and actually being okay with that. So, I would say for me, within the last few years, but I, I've always known that I was different, just couldn't articulate what it was.
Elizabeth Cheney:Yeah. Did, so, did y'all like, was it therapy? Did y'all like find a test or something? Um, did someone say something? You're like, wait, what was that? That, that kind of checks out. That sounds like me. How did it happen?
Jay Coleman:I mean, for me just doing, you know, research on what introverts and extroverts are. Um, definitely did some personality tests. Um, but yeah, just doing research and just, you know, I mean, seeing how, I guess my personality and the things that I do line up with so many of the introverted traits.
Elizabeth Cheney:Yeah.
Steph Laffey:Yeah. And for me, like, I actually forced myself to pretend to be extroverted because all my friends were, I went to Penn State, I'm actually wearing shirt, so, so it was
Elizabeth Cheney:wearing my alma matter too.
Steph Laffey:oh yeah. Nice. I love it. Um,
Elizabeth Cheney:We didn't plan
Steph Laffey:yeah, we did not, um, I like never wear the sweatshirt, so That's funny. Um, so it went to Penn State, like my husband, and at the time my boyfriend was, in a fraternity, so we were always like at the crazy parties. I just kind of forced myself to like, pretend to be extroverted, but I always knew. I was like a little bit of like a quirky, dorky, like. I don't really know if this is me or if I'm overplaying who I am to fit in. but like I did all the things that like, you know, you would expect a typical college kid to do. Uh, being in the workplace, I forced myself to go to happy hours and like, and just be on all the time. And I couldn't figure out like why I had no energy. Like I was so tired all the time. So the pandemic kind of made me go inward, like I'm talking like so far inward to like the depth of my soul. and I just unpacked and pulled back layers and kept going and kept going and kept going. And like the, the closer I got to like the root of everything, the more free I felt and the more like able I could exist in the world, like as myself. so I think I knew I was an introvert before I had the word for it, because I was already starting to put things in place, like boundaries and, just the way that I expressed myself, the way that I just went about the world. And then one of my business coaches kind of just plopped the word on me one day when we were talking. I was like, wait, that makes sense. Is that what I am? Is that who I am? And I just went down the rabbit hole with that. And the rest is history.
Elizabeth Cheney:That is so, so cool that like learning this piece was so eye-opening and like validating for both of your experiences. And like, I know that sounds kinda silly, uh, or, or cheesy, but I don't mean it like that. I mean, hearing both of you and like I'm watching both your faces talk about the moment you put two and two together yourself in this term and you're like, oh, oh, it's like an aha moment. And that's really cool to see. And um, I'm really glad that you found that. And I'm not gonna lie, I'm over here listening to both of y'all talk and I'm like, I get really overstimulated by noises and sounds and lights and all that kind of stuff. Wow. What, what if I am actually more introvert than I think and I think I'm extroverted and I'm duping myself. I'm gonna have to go do some journaling after this. Like, I'm not lying, like I'm listening to you and I'm also thinking, holy shit, am I getting like, called out without un intentionally getting called out? I need to go introspect because like, yeah. I'm curious, especially for you Steph, as you were pushing yourself to be something that clearly wasn't working with your personality, your essence, right. Did anything else manifest from that? Like, I mean, hearing, hearing you tell that story about putting yourself obviously in a position that you weren't comfortable with. I got anxiety. So like I'm curious, like, did any like, and if you don't feel comfortable, we don't have to talk about this. I'm just curious.'cause I feel like for people listening who maybe have felt different and can't quite like, identify or articulate, it can be very freeing to connect the dots, so to speak.
Steph Laffey:Yeah, I mean, I was definitely a little bit of an escapist. like I just avoided, it was weird even though I was deep diving into like myself. I avoided all of my problems. Like I can't explain it. Like I, well, I'll try, I'll, I'll attempt. Um, so I was like in a job that I wasn't, I was in a job that I wasn't happy with for a long time because I was like, this is what I'm supposed to do. Like, everybody wants me to do this. I had a lot of bad habits that I was doing of partying like crazy, like drinking, doing other stuff. Um, um, like just, I was just such an avoider and I felt like I wasn't even connected to like my body. Like I just didn't even know who I was. So. That moment where all the pieces clicked into place. I feel like even before I had the word, I started giving myself permission to let go of the shit that wasn't serving me anymore. Like all the, just years of layers and of, and bullshit and like dumb stories I was telling myself and horrible, like self-destructive habits. One by one, I picked them off, I peeled them off, I threw'em away, and I let'em go forever. So like, an example of that is in October I decided I'm never drinking liquor again. Now will I stick to it? I don't know. I love espresso martinis, but for now,
Elizabeth Cheney:too. Me too.
Steph Laffey:for now, I am not, I have no interest in like drinking liquor because I don't like how it makes me feel. There's so many little things that I just no longer tolerate from myself, from anybody else, and I think that accepting that I'm an introvert and like I need to be in a space where I feel safe and clear and I can just be free, uh, that's been life changing
Elizabeth Cheney:Wow. What about you, Jay? Have you had any like, circumstances, situations, moments in your life where you had to like mask who you were and make yourself, like, push yourself out of your comfort zone?
Jay Coleman:I don't know about
Elizabeth Cheney:Or have you always kind of had a good grip?
Jay Coleman:Yeah, I don't,
Steph Laffey:unlike me.
Jay Coleman:yeah, I think I was when I was
Elizabeth Cheney:I didn't mean it like that.
Steph Laffey:I'm kidding.
Jay Coleman:I think when I was younger I felt like I had to kind of mask who I was, you know, to sort of, you know, fit in or not seem weird. But, um, it's hard and I. You know, it, it, it, it kind of, it weighs you down, um, in ways that, you know, people who aren't introverts don't really understand. Like, no, I can't just go out and talk with people, you know, no, I can't, you know, I am fine just staying here and reading, you know, having to, uh, explain that over and over again. You think, okay, maybe I'll just try, just try to hide it. But it, it never, it doesn't work out that way. So, um, I learned early that I, I can't, I have to be who I am. And, you know, since, you know, my early twenties, I guess I've, I've really been, um, stepping into my introversion even without me really un, you know, fully un understanding it.
Elizabeth Cheney:of those. That was so powerful. I'm also like now going through the Rolodex in my head of all my friends that are introverted or who I think are introverted, mostly thinking of my husband. And I'm just like, oh my God. How many times have I forced him out of his comfort zone? How many times have I forced him? I don't know. Woo. I feel like I'm getting very educated in schooled and, uh, called out. But don't worry, you guys have no idea. We're having, we're having some conversations up top.
Steph Laffey:I love it. Wait, before, before you like, like go on though. I just wanna say my husband is an extrovert and nine times outta 10 I was forcing myself. It had nothing to do with him. So.
Elizabeth Cheney:oh.
Steph Laffey:it was just pressure that I put on myself. Now when I say I wanna stay home, it's like, okay, then am I
Elizabeth Cheney:So you communicate your boundary. And actually, I was gonna say, Steph, great question to catch me on.'cause I was gonna segue into, well let's talk about introverts and extroverts and like relationships, like romantic partnerships, friendships, family dynamics.'cause I think that's very interesting. I mean, I feel like going into this conversation, I knew what introverts, like introversion, I knew what that was, but like textbook example, but hearing both of you talk about it, I'm just like, wow. Like the depth of it. I don't like, I like, I don't know how to explain it. Like maybe I thought extroversion and introversion, like both, both of them as a whole we're just okay. Yeah. Like happy and sad, like it's a thing. But it's the, the depth to which you go, you both of you speak. I'm like, wow. I, I need to kind of take a deep dive into that and like take introspect into that. So, okay, Steph, so you're married to an extrovert. Um, my introverted husband's married to an extrovert. Uh, Jay, I'm not sure if you're connected to an extrovert in any way, but I'm curious, and this will be like a longer discussion, but does every introvert need their extrovert kind of thing? And then just how do we coexist? I, that means, that sounds dramatic, but you know what I mean? Like, what are, what are things like an extrovert can take, take into consideration with their e uh, introverted lover or friend or sibling
Steph Laffey:you wanna go first, Jay?
Jay Coleman:Yeah, I'll go first. Uh, so no, uh, I am single for now. but I, I, I guess for now, we'll see. We'll, what happens in, in the future? I don't know if every introvert needs an extrovert, kind of, you know, depends on, on a dynamic.'cause you know, introversion isn't all, isn't all one thing. You know, I like, like I say, that introversion and, and extroversion, you know, exists on the spectrum. And you know, you have people who are, who are, are more. Extroverted. but at, at a certain point, no matter how much fun, no matter how much they work the room, they gotta take a step back and recharge. Um, it just takes them longer. Um, it, they can, I guess, take on more, more, more stimulation. So, for, for me, I don't know if I need an extrovert. I've been, in relationships with primarily introverts. Um, I think, you know, there are some benefits, I think to, to having an introvert, an introvert, extroverted, uh, kind of report, like my best friend is extroverted. So, you know, there's that dynamic. I would say that, you know, extrovert or introverts, can kind of help extroverts, um, from flying too close to the sun. Whereas
Elizabeth Cheney:mm-Hmm.
Jay Coleman:extroverts make sure that introverts can get off the ground. So to get, you know, that's,
Steph Laffey:That's beautiful. That needs to be on the shirt, by the way. That's for much.
Jay Coleman:yeah, I made that up. So, you know, it, it,
Elizabeth Cheney:He said, oh my, lemme get my notebook real quick. Gimme a second. Yeah. I love it.
Jay Coleman:I, I, Steph know, I, I just, I drop gyms all the time, um, humbly of course, but you, um, but yeah, I, I don't, I don't know if you need to have a introvert, but I think it, it definitely helps when, when you find the right one for you, when you find that, that that right person.
Steph Laffey:Mm-Hmm. Yeah. I mean, most of the people in my life, I don't wanna say most, I would say it's probably like 60 40 are extroverts. Maybe it's like 65, 40, 35. I, I can't do math, so who knows? but my husband's extroverted, but not like hardcore, extroverted, just like he definitely is. I, it is just a different energy, different, like we compliment each other. my best friend is a hardcore like rah rah, crazy extrovert, love her. and a lot of my friends are kind of in between, but more so on the extroverted side. My sister's an extrovert. and it is not that like I need them to like chill out or like temper themselves at all. I think if anything, I would call an extrovert to recognize when you have an introvert among you that is pushing herself to be. you, because at least for me, I can't keep up with my extroverted friends. I physically cannot, but I will die trying, like,
Jay Coleman:Okay. 50 cents be
Steph Laffey:you know, and we were talking about Super Bowl, we were talking about Super Bowl and thinking about that show from a couple years ago, which was not that good by the way, but whatever. anywho, I pushed myself way too hard. not as much anymore, but for the longest time I would have that extra drink that sent me over the edge. And like, then everybody was like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, I didn't need that extra drink. I don't know, it's not that they're responsible for me, but like almost like reminding me like, Hey Steph, like don't try to keep up with us. Like you cannot, you will die. Um, and we don't want that for you. Like that would've been very helpful. But again, when that was all going on, we were all kind of in our earlier twenties, so
Elizabeth Cheney:Yeah.
Steph Laffey:can't fault them. They had to deal with their own shit.
Elizabeth Cheney:Yeah, but also like, I think for everybody listening, don't give pressure. Like don't try to pressure your friend who's like, I'm good. I've had two. You've had four. That's okay. I think that's another thing that you're trying to say as well. Not that your friend pressured you, but
Steph Laffey:Yeah. No, it was all internalized pressure that was totally made up that like, if they knew what I was thinking, they would've been like, hold on. No, no, no. Like, so I think it's also on the introvert to find a way to like express to your people who, who really want the best for you. Like, Hey, I'm thinking of doing this. Like they, they might talk you off a ledge and, and if they do, listen, don't try to push'em away.
Jay Coleman:Yeah, I think step, step is right though, you know, it is, it is up to, really up to us to communicate kinda, you know, how, how we're feeling and what our limits are. And the thing is, I think introverts really are very good at. Comm at communicating when we put our mind tool because, you know, we, we overthink or we, we, we, we measure our words and we kind of plan things out in our head. So yeah, we are uniquely prepared to communicate, but I, I, I also think, for, I don't know, I don't, I don't know if you meant, meant this fair stuff, but I think, you know, introverts, we, we are very, um, or we can be very attuned to how o other people are. You know, we, because we watch people and we actually in our own way, give a damn about people. Um, so when we, when we find someone who's extroverted, who actually takes the time to, to see us and say, Hey, you know, are you okay? Or is this, is this too much for you? Like, you know, because we don't, we don't get that too often. So, you know, we, we get it from other introverts because introverts, no. But to have an extrovert actually, you know, be it, be, um, in tune and, and empathetic enough to say, Hey. You know, just, just wanna make sure you're cool. Like that matters. And I think those are the things that can kind of help, you know, build our friendship or, uh, marriage or relationship between an introvert and, an extrovert. Because I think, at least for me, at, at the end of the day, you know, we just kind of wanna be understood and it's, it's not always easy for us to articulate that.
Steph Laffey:Absolutely. And it's like looking back, like now that I know I'm an introvert, now that I can communicate my boundaries, now that I can say like, Hey, I'm, my battery's on empty. Like I, I can see that now and I recognize it and I can communicate it, but like looking like I don't fault anybody else. I literally was not aware. I was, felt completely unselfaware. I was trying to push myself and be somebody I wasn't. And like, now I see so clearly like what I, what was going wrong every single time that I went out. so I can't fault anybody for not picking up on it because it, it is. On me. But now that I can communicate it, it's like making life so much easier. Not just for myself, but for the people that go out with me. Like I feel like for the longest time I would go to a concert and people would be like, oh shit, we gotta watch out for stuff. But now it's like, that's not the vibe anymore because I don't put myself in that position and I don't put them in that position because I now know my limit.
Elizabeth Cheney:Yeah. Yeah. No, that was, that was very well said. Both of you. Um, and I was just thinking about what you said, Jay, about like flying too close to the sun, but then also be like, for extroverts being an introvert, but then like extroverts being able to kind of lift, get the introvert started.
Steph Laffey:Yeah.
Elizabeth Cheney:I, I consider myself very in touch with like my intuition and people and reading people. but I do also still very feel very extroverted, but I also still feel very exhausted. So I'm over here is still definitely introspecting. I'm like, Hmm, I don't know what I am. That makes me wonder, like, is it the ambivert, is that the, or ambivert That's like the person who's like a little bit of both, right? What is y'all's definition of that?
Steph Laffey:I think it's like ambidextrous, like, like that's what comes to
Elizabeth Cheney:absolutely makes sense. Wow, that makes so much sense.
Steph Laffey:I think. I mean, if I had a guess list, like I would definitely put you in the extrovert category. But then again like that's like, that's like question that you probably need to ask. Like I was listening to your podcast earlier today, just like getting to know like more about the guests you've had on and what you talk about and stuff. I was like, this girl's an extrovert for sure. But I love that for you and that I think that's why we get along. Like it's great.
Jay Coleman:Yeah.
Elizabeth Cheney:maybe I am the good extrovert friend for the introverts.
Steph Laffey:Yeah.
Jay Coleman:so. I don't know. I'm not a fan of the term ambi. I don't know why. It just bothers me. Um, there's probably nothing wrong with it, it's just I don't, I don't know. Um,
Steph Laffey:I take a cop out
Jay Coleman:yes, it, it, that's what it feels. It, it, it's, it's giving cop out. Um,
Steph Laffey:Pick one.
Elizabeth Cheney:couldn't, that's why I couldn't get like a straight answer when I was like googling like that and like introverted, it was like all the same thing. So I'm with you, Jay. It's a cop out.
Steph Laffey:Yeah. If we're gonna say ambi, like we might as well just all be both like, what the fuck?
Jay Coleman:yeah. But like I said before, you know, no one, no one is all one thing. You know, these, they exist on a spectrum. Again, I just, I don't know if anyone is a hundred percent introvert or a hundred percent extrovert. I don't know if anyone's is exactly 50% either. So I, I don't know. It just bother it, it bothers me. I don't like it.
Steph Laffey:everyone's an Amber Bird then.
Jay Coleman:Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much.
Elizabeth Cheney:the term and throw it away. It sounds like, like. Aardvark or Aunt Eater? I, I can't even say it. Ambivert. I can't say that. B and v together.
Steph Laffey:is a artwork? Art? Arthur's an artwork, right? Well see. For somebody who doesn't, we were talking about this in yesterday's conversation. For somebody who doesn't watch cartoons, I know a lot about cartoons.
Elizabeth Cheney:Yes. For those listening, Steph was traumatized by what? Fairly odd parents? Is that what you said?
Steph Laffey:Yeah.
Elizabeth Cheney:Fairly odd parents. There was a infamous boil episode. I don't even remember it, but it, it scarred Steph for life. So now she'll never watch a cartoon,
Steph Laffey:But I did before that and I have a photographic memory, so,
Elizabeth Cheney:okay, so next question.'cause I feel like these are, like, I didn't even plan this out, but this conversation is kind of moving very fluidly. Uh, what are misconceptions and stereotypes of introverts? This is your time to take the stage, which I'm sure might mortify you, but I'm just kidding. I'm totally kidding.
Steph Laffey:so you wanna go first?
Jay Coleman:that we are antisocial, uh, mean stuck up. we don't have any special skills. We're, uh.
Elizabeth Cheney:okay.
Jay Coleman:I've heard that we can be very well stuck up, you know, very arrogant. So, Yeah,
Elizabeth Cheney:Huh? I would take shy before I would take stuck up, but
Jay Coleman:shy. Shy is another one. Um, we're all, you know, we're all shy. We're all lonely, apparently.
Steph Laffey:We all suck at making conversation.
Jay Coleman:yes. And we're all, we're all, we're all depressed.
Elizabeth Cheney:Those were a lot of negative. So what's the truth then? Obviously the opposite. It's not that, I mean, you guys, you guys host a podcast so clearly you can hold a conversation. Clearly you have social skills.
Steph Laffey:like, I've been a lot of those things. Probably maybe not arrogant. I don't think I've ever been arrogant. I, I don't think I've ever been accused of being arrogant. Um, but I've definitely been a lot of those things at, in seasons of my life. But like, I wouldn't characterize myself, like, I wouldn't characterize myself as those things that characterize seasons of my life. Like, I think like. Those are things that get attached to introverts because people don't understand what introversion actually is. And like, I think as you're trying to find yourself and come to peace with yourself and figure out who you actually are and how you wanna show up in the world, you can maybe come off as shy or uncomfortable or awkward or antisocial, but that's really because you're kind of lost in your own inner world. and a lot of the times when I came off as awkward or like socially inept, um, it's because I was having a dialogue with like all the voices in my head or like trying to figure out my own shit, overthinking, dealing with the dumpster fire that is my brain. Not anymore, but it was, um, it's loud in there. So I think that like. Those words can characterize many introverts, but it is not like a characteristic of what an introvert is. So to answer your question, what is an introvert? I think an introvert is a human being, uh, number one. So that's, that's the first thing. And I think what people don't understand is it, it's about where we draw our energy and our interest from. So my energy and interest come from within. So there's like a light inside of me almost. and when that light goes out or when it dim, I am like. You don't fucking come near me. Um, but like extroverts draw their energy from the world around them, from the people around them, from what other people are saying and doing. And they, they like the excitement. I can be at a party, a crazy wild party, and if my light is out, fuck off. But like, like I, I need to go home now. It could be the most fun thing ever, but if I am not good, it is not gonna work. but extrovert, I think could be in that low state and then they could go out to a party and get hyped up.
Elizabeth Cheney:makes sense. That checks out.
Steph Laffey:Sorry for all the F words. I'm from New York.
Elizabeth Cheney:you're fine. You're totally fine.
Jay Coleman:No, I, I agree with everything. Step said. I don't, I don't think I could have said, I could have said any better.
Steph Laffey:Maybe you could have said it with, yeah, exactly. Maybe you could have said it with lot F bombs, but sometimes it's the best word.
Elizabeth Cheney:You just said your energy's drawn from within and your interests, and I wrote down a question because I was curious. As we've made, I've made multiple mentions about the podcast and y'all both do podcasts. I'm curious, does that not drain you? because like I'm a solo podcaster and it will drain me after I do an episode'cause it's just myself.'cause it's, I'm being on, right? Like, I gotta come up with the words come on my mouth. Sure. I'll do notes and journal, kind of have an idea of the framework of the episode. But I'm just curious as like doing, like when y'all podcast and you do your episodes, does that ever drain you or is it because it's like something that excites you? Like Jay, you wanna build a community of like more awareness of, you know, introverts and everything? Like is it because of all those drivers in your self-interest? Like it doesn't, or is it still like a balance?
Steph Laffey:Hmm. We're both like lost at that. Um, I have to say, I would not be able to do one podcast or three if I didn't have co-host, because the nice part about having a co-host is 50% of me. Well, I'm still giving a hundred percent of me, but like, it only relies on me for 50% of the work. For all three. So like, we split all the, the effort we split, like even just like the, the behind the scenes, which can be a lot. We split everything. and that actually maximizes the output like quite a bit. And then, so just entering the conversation, like the actual recording of the podcast, it's like we've already split the work, so I'm already going in like less tired and less exhausted. But then we also don't prepare anything for the day other than like, maybe like, what should we talk about? And then see what happens. So I think that helps. I don't know. What do you think j?
Jay Coleman:Uh, no, that, that's, that's, I think that's totally accurate. Um, like I don't, no, I don't, I don't think I, I would be doing a solo podcast either. Um, and even with this, yeah, it, it, to answer your question, it is draining, but, you know, all draining isn't negative. You know, just, it's just a matter of, we use, we use all of our energy, but it was, it was energy that went towards something worthwhile. It's, it's the small talk and a pointless conversations and the, the meetings that should be emails that really bo bothers us because it's, it's. You know, it is like not only are we drained, but it's like we're not, we're not getting that time back. So it, it, it's just, you know, I'll never get the, this, this hour back and I'm drained and nothing was accomplished. There was no point to this discussion. I, I could have been truly eating a hot dog, but no, I'm here because Karen wanted to have a meeting about tomorrow's meeting, like, you know, as, as opposed to talking to, talking to my friend about anything and everything for half hour or, or an hour. And yeah, we drink afterwards, but we had a good conversation and we probably saw world peace. I don't know. I'm just, I'm just saying
Steph Laffey:And I got my therapy session in for the week, so everybody's good and all over. Put it all over the internet. No big deal.
Jay Coleman:yeah, and we typically just talk until one of us are, is hungry.
Steph Laffey:Yeah.
Elizabeth Cheney:I love that. I love that. That's really cool. Um, okay, so I know we kinda talked about this also like on y'all's episode, but. I feel like I've learned so much about being introverted this episode. I'm curious for anyone listening,'cause I do feel like there's gonna be people who are thinking, oh wait, that kind of hits a note. That kind of hits a check mark. Wait, wait. Could they just simply Google like a test? Like, am I introvert, extrovert, test? Like what is a resource or resources or what do you recommend?
Jay Coleman:Uh, yeah, you can, there's, there's no shortage of, um, personality test. I think, uh, rich Myers is, is kind of the, the big name and personality test. Um, I don't, I don't think it's free, but, um, it's, it is definitely comprehensive. There are a lot of free, kind of similar tests to, to Briggs Brick Myers. Um, but yeah, there's. N not not just tests, but articles, re research. Um, there, there's no shortage of, knowledge and, and, and education out there about introversion. And one of the, it, it's, it is always hard saying, you know, a positive thing about the pandemic, but you know, if there is something positive that came out of it, is that, you know, introverts kind of had a, a light shined on them, or rather introversion had a light shine on them. So more people are taking the time to actually understand what introversion is. Um, and it's not, and it's not, it's not all bad. And that's the only thing that's bad at all is, you know, people are saying, Hey, we're able to function and succeed and thrive out here and we don't have to be the loudest person or, or most energetic, energetic person in the room.
Steph Laffey:Right. And I think, I mean, I haven't taken like the Myers Briggs or Briggs Myers, whatever the heck it's called. actually maybe I have, I don't know. I took a couple of different ones. None that I had to pay for. but like I followed, when I first figured it out, I just honestly followed a bunch of social media introverted creators, and I was like, oh, that chucks out, that chucks out, that chucks out, that chucks out, like. In a way that I had never felt so seen and like, so like, like I related to people in my entire life. I was like, oh, I do that, I do that. That makes sense. Like, so there are tons of podcasts like hosted by Introverts, which blew my mind at first, but now it just makes sense. in fact, we hosted a podcaster's mixer a couple weeks ago and I think we had like 35 people come.
Elizabeth Cheney:Oh wow.
Steph Laffey:It was pretty cool. And um, literally everybody was like, I'm an introvert. And I don't know if it was because it was the state introverted podcast, so they saw the first part and they showed up. Or if podcasters are normally introverts, I, I don't know. but I. Just go out, listen, find some content by introverted creators and like, if it resonates with you, that could be a good place to start. I'm not a scientist, I don't know, but like, you know yourself best. And you could also talk to family and friends. Ask them if they think that you might be an introvert. Ask yourself some questions. Like, do I draw my energy from like, within, like if I could I handle being at a party if I was kind of drained, or would, would that party excite me or would it make me wanna go home and be a harm, like journal on it and see what comes up. So I, I don't think you necessarily need like a formal diagnosis or whatever, but like, I don't know, go like, explore TikTok and, and YouTube and Instagram and you'll find some shit.
Elizabeth Cheney:I think it's worth it. It's very
Steph Laffey:Yeah, it is.
Elizabeth Cheney:you know. When I figured out like what my anxiety and A DHD was, I was like, oh.'cause I mean, there was so many things I've judged myself for. I beat myself up over, oh, you can get, you're not organized. Oh, you, this, that, that, and then all these little like, connect the dots. Oh, that's this, that's being neurodivergent, that's the A DHD. And then you learn like things about that specifically not obviously overcome obstacles, but yeah, overcome obstacles or achieve goals and tasks and things. So, no, I feel like both of you have said very poignant things tonight, so I appreciate you guys being honest and vulnerable and like given, given clout to the introverted community.'cause I feel like it's deserved and much needed. Uh, and Jay, I'm glad that I, I'm happy that you talked about the, the pandemic and it highlighting and spotlighting introversion. And I think I mentioned this on y'all's podcast, but whether or not I'm a full extrovert or not, nobody's full, but I do feel like the pandemic is what highlighted. Maybe I do need to recharge, like I need alone time. Like maybe I don't need to be go, go, go, like consume myself with people and messaging and you know, just being connected. And honestly, now I'm thinking about, I'm like, why did I even think that to begin with?'cause that just sounds exhausting, but whatever. Neither here nor there. But the pandemic really helped me kind of touch into that side of myself too. So.
Steph Laffey:I think it's important to remember that like, just like introverts likes to be around people and like enjoy being around people, extrovert can enjoy being with themselves and hanging out alone. So it's like we both enjoy the activities that the other one prefers. And yeah, we hold space for both.
Elizabeth Cheney:Hmm. I love that. Okay, well, dang, that was beautiful. Any closing remarks before I hand it to y'all to give us your social media and where everyone can find you on introversion as a whole? Any last remarks? Steph, Jay?
Steph Laffey:I'm hungry.
Elizabeth Cheney:Well then we must be getting near the end.'cause isn't that the rule?
Steph Laffey:Yeah, pretty much. That's all that came to mind.
Jay Coleman:yes. Well, this will be the first time where, where Steph doesn't have to do our thing, so if someone else will do it.
Steph Laffey:Oh yeah. Thank goodness.
Elizabeth Cheney:Oh, the clothes.
Steph Laffey:Yeah. I made you do that yesterday.
Jay Coleman:Yeah. It was all right though.
Elizabeth Cheney:Well, for everyone listening and my fellow introverts, where can everyone find you? Where can they follow the podcast? Follow the follow your brand Jay. Follow you Steph. Where can they find you?
Steph Laffey:so you can find me on Instagram and Threads at introspective af. and then I have the state introverted podcast. and then I also have two other podcasts. So if you wanna kind of get to know other sides of me, I have the Human AF podcast that's coming out in March. and then the Hey Bey podcast that is coming out probably in March. Also, two, totally like I am a very multifaceted human, so those podcasts will highlight those different parts of me. So, yeah.
Jay Coleman:So you can also find me at the, stage Reader Podcast. Um, that is the only podcast that you'll find me on for, for now. Um. I am not multifaceted enough to talk that that much. Um, but
Elizabeth Cheney:I am cracking up. I love it.
Jay Coleman:and done. One and done.
Steph Laffey:One and done. I love that for you. I'm normally one and done
Jay Coleman:I love it for myself, you know. So I, I, the other half of the, uh, stage JDA podcast at stage JTA podcast on Instagram and Threads, um, for my brand sincerely and intro thread, you can find me on Facebook and Instagram. My handler are the same, sincerely and introvert. Also, check out my website sincerely and introvert.com for all of the greatest, latest and best introverted, apparel. So if you want a nice introvert t-shirt, hoodie, or a sweatshirt, sincerely introvert.com.
Steph Laffey:and get on his email list for discount.
Jay Coleman:That too,
Elizabeth Cheney:Ooh, I'll make sure I link all of that in the show notes for you, Jay. We'll make sure all the handles, all the URLs are all linked. definitely, definitely. Well, thank you both so much for joining me today. I love this conversation. I'm gonna go back to this conversation. I'm probably gonna listen to it several times to also better understand my husband and hopefully pray. I haven't put any trauma on him with my extroversion, but like, let's go do all the things. but, uh, for those listening, like I said, I will link everything in the show notes. You can follow Jay and Steph, and if you're not doing so already, you can follow me at in dot between Pod or at Elizabeth. Better yet, just follow both, make it easier for all of us, and then you can follow me at the InBetween podcast on TikTok and YouTube. So without further ado, I will talk to you all later and see you next week. Bye.
Steph Laffey:Bye.
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