The In-Between with Elizabeth Cheney

In-Between: Sexuality is a Spectrum

• Elizabeth Cheney • Episode 117

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To close Pride Month out with a bang, I asked my good friend, Alex Armijo, to come back on the pod and discuss a topic that puts me a little out of my comfort zone.... sexuality. Dun dun DUN! One might blame Chappel Roan, but this episode was inspired by the question, what does queer even mean?

Alex is an artist, DEI thought leader, a disability, LGBTQIA+, and human rights advocate. Basically, one of my favorite people to discuss these types of topics with. We also dive into Inside Out 2 (hehe). 

Here's a look at what we discuss:

  • Sexuality is a spectrum
  • Chapell Roan and her ownership of her queer identity and how that inspires others
  • What does queer even mean?
  • Alex and I share our first experiences with "sexuality" 
  • Labels and how they can help or hurt.... 
  • What "coming out" represents
  • Finding your communities - they're out there! 
  • No matter what, who you love and what you enjoy are perfect and no one should ever take that away <3


This episode was scary for me to do, but sexuality isn't something to be ashamed of. This is for anyone who may be scared, confused, or needing a reminder that they are perfect just the way they are. 

Let your freak flag fly, baby!

If you'd like to keep up with Alex, check out their website www.alexarmijo.com and their instagram @the.perpetual.hobbyist.

If you are loving The In-Between, remember to rate, review, subscribe, and follow!

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https://in-between.co
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Elizabeth:

Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the in between. I'm your host, Elizabeth, and I have my friend, Alex Armijo here. She's an artist. She's an ally. She's an advocate. She's a D E I thought leader. So she's basically a badass. Uh, she was here a few weeks ago. We had a super fun episode, the on neurodiversity, ADHD, and just all our weird quirks of our brains. The things that make us us. Ah, insert little jingle here. Uh, but I, I was, I was like, Hey, Alex, I'd like to have you back on the pod. You're fun. You're my friend. I like our banter. And also like you are interested in like a lot of different things. And I was in the theme of pride month. I was like, I want to talk about sexuality. And so anyways, I digress. We'll get into all that fun shit later, but Alex, welcome to the in between again.

Alex:

Thank you. Thank you. Good to be back. Always enjoying our little sessions together.

Elizabeth:

They are sessions. We

Alex:

I know they are. They're like, they're like, uh, therapy sessions. I feel like

Elizabeth:

They

Alex:

we should get insurance reimbursement for this. I feel like.

Elizabeth:

Is that, is that a possibility? I'm sure our benefits team would love that.

Alex:

is not a possibility. Let me tell you what.

Elizabeth:

She, she's like been there tried and true and it did not work out for me. Well, before we actually get into anything today, I just want to humble brag on you for a second. So you're an artist and I know you talked about your art last time you were on and I'll let you tee up your social media at the end. But since you were on. You've sold a few original works, right?

Alex:

I have, man, I went like a whole month that I sold four original pieces. I was so excited. And I sold some, some additional prints and I've got a new commission that's coming up. Like I am just really getting

Elizabeth:

See something about getting out of your comfort zone, right? And then the universe just rewards. I feel like this entire episode today is going to be out of my comfort zone. Just a wee bit, but you know what? That's why I'm going to have it because. What do I always say? There's magic in the unknown. There is magic getting out of your comfort zone. So we're just going to see if we crash and burn here or if I end up unicorn at the end. So we're hoping for the, the latter, but congrats on that. That is so bad ass. I can't even imagine how fulfilling and validating that must be for someone to pay you, compensate you for your art. Like, Oh, I love

Alex:

Yeah, well, and not only that, but it's like this person sees the stuff that's that I have displayed, and they're like, I want to be part of your celebrating Beautiful different sized bodies. I'm like, and I see myself in your art. Do you know how like that's the whole reason I do what I do

Elizabeth:

I love that.

Alex:

see themselves. Cause that's, that's why I started in the first place was because I was not seeing my body type in a lot of erotic art or just a art celebrating our bodies. Right. And, um, so I started doing it on my own and here I am,

Elizabeth:

that's so awesome.

Alex:

as can be.

Elizabeth:

And it is the ultimate compliment like I see me in this it's like oh Yes, as long as there's confidence. Oh, I love it. I love it. So snaps for you I don't know if you can hear that but

Alex:

Thank you. Thank

Elizabeth:

Alex So yeah, what you've been up to recently. Have you you're my little you're my little My little, my little, my little friend, um, you're one of my favorite people to talk mental health things with. Cause like we literally do have coffee chats and we talk about all things. We talk about family internal systems, DEI, whatever the shit, but, uh, what have you been into recently? Have you seen Inside Out 2? Cause I feel like

Alex:

I saw okay I saw it inside out too I cried when anxiety had her anxiety attack cuz I was like Yeah, it was

Elizabeth:

So overall you enjoyed it, I'm going to assume.

Alex:

really cute I mean I don't feel like it didn't hit me the same as

Elizabeth:

hmm.

Alex:

And I heard that some of the characters, uh, changed, so, but I didn't, honestly,

Elizabeth:

Yes, disgust, disgust and fear, disgust and fear have a different vocal actor. So, I just want to give my quick thoughts. And before I even give my quick thoughts, because I have thoughts, and of course I have thoughts. I am not a Disney adult, but your girl does love Inside Out. And so, I went into this with very high expectations. And for what it's worth, Inside Out 1 wrecked me. Like, wrecked me. Maybe in the worst way, but definitely in the best way. But like, oh my gosh, spoil alert. If I mean, it's, it came out like forever ago. So if you haven't seen it, then this is on you. But like emotions, having emotions, who would have funk it? But like, holy shit balls. It got me, got me good. I

Alex:

Mm

Elizabeth:

I will watch that movie even if I just want to like a cry. If I need to cry, just put it on because it's going to wreck you. Yes. A 10 year old moving is going to wreck you. Just wait for it. Just wait. But it's great. It's great. So I went into this movie. With extremely high expectations, especially when I was like, Ooh, our girl anxiety is

Alex:

There's your problem with a sequel,

Elizabeth:

well. Again, because Inside Out was absolutely phenomenal, I was like, I thought, because normally I don't have

Alex:

thought they were gonna do it

Elizabeth:

I did, because it's also Pixar, so I'm taking, like, that magic and the Inside Out magic, and I'm like, it's gonna be great. and plus, like, how could they mess up puberty? Like, that's like a whole story arc, right? So much,

Alex:

could have gone on for hours.

Elizabeth:

it definitely could. It was way too short.

Alex:

of waiting for the character Riley, which is also my daughter's name, by the way, um, to come out as a lesbian, uh, in Inside Out 3 because did you see all of her like hot older girl teammates that she was obsessed with?

Elizabeth:

I, I saw that and I'm like, there is like your high school age, like, you know, emotional expression, but we digress, I need to get back to like my pain points of this.

Alex:

Okay, your pain points,

Elizabeth:

You're like, Jesus Christ, who gives a shit? I'm like, I have, I have hyper analyzed this. I'm just kidding. These are my few ics. One,

Alex:

Mm

Elizabeth:

Inside Out took place over like the course of like 10 months or however long a school year was because she moves and it's like her progression through that, right? This movie was over the course of three days. It was so rushed. So I felt like it was rushed. I feel like it was

Alex:

Mm hmm. Okay. Okay. I can see that.

Elizabeth:

think it was great. I still think it's a gonna be a great tool to talk about anxiety and like overcoming it and like it taking over blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think they tried to do too much. They introduced four new emotions and they hardly even touched like embarrassment and boredom and envy. I,

Alex:

On Wii.

Elizabeth:

yeah, right. And envy kept going back and on way. Yeah, what an

Alex:

burn. I'm like, go count something. How could you possibly be bored?

Elizabeth:

Go, go find 20 different colored things and then come entertain me.

Alex:

I mean, that's honestly what I do sometimes.

Elizabeth:

12 different leaves from different plants and grass doesn't count. Um, but like Envy, I felt like was Envy maybe part of the time and then Envy was just like a fangirl. I don't even know what Envy was. I don't know. It was weird.

Alex:

I thought it was weird too. I thought Envy was weird too

Elizabeth:

Envy was not played

Alex:

little more like, Oh, that's so cute. But it

Elizabeth:

Yeah, I was like, I can't get it, but

Alex:

and want that thing.

Elizabeth:

it was still good. It was still great. It will still be a great tool. Like I said, to use like those conversations, but it was just too much. Like, I feel like anxiety should have just been introduced and then maybe. Because they didn't even do a good job, in my opinion, of like seeing how the new ones played into anxiety. Like I felt like it just wasn't, like it did not have that complexity that the first one had.

Alex:

Counterpoint. that's how puberty is.

Elizabeth:

I thought about that. I did think about that. I did think about that. But then I was like, but then they could have played more into that. I don't know. Uh,

Alex:

more. I feel like, I feel like they're setting themselves up for additional sequels. Yes.

Elizabeth:

sure, for sure, but like, you know,

Alex:

I feel like they did too much and too little of the

Elizabeth:

Yes, 1000%.

Alex:

but also that is fully how puberty is. Also how my brain works on a daily basis.

Elizabeth:

I think it was my expectations and myself. So I know the problem is me. Hi, me, me, me. But I, and I may have had, like, two margaritas. So who knows how that influenced it. But,

Alex:

Also, I was in and out because I took my four year old daughter to, the movie theater for the first time.

Elizabeth:

oh, how fun!

Alex:

it was like, I want water. I have to potty. I'm hungry.

Elizabeth:

you probably missed, like, you know, a third of it. I hear,

Alex:

did some of it.

Elizabeth:

Well, it was only like an hour and 20 minutes long, so

Alex:

I know.

Elizabeth:

missed some plot point.

Alex:

And with those dang lines, and man, I never go to the movie theater, but

Elizabeth:

me

Alex:

me tell you, these days they have the, the recliner

Elizabeth:

Oh, it's nicer than your house. It's so

Alex:

like, okay, I can, I can do this, because

Elizabeth:

We were like in pods. Me and my, me and my friend, Ashley and I, like we were in pods and like I couldn't see the people next to us because the people behind us, it was an experience. I mean, I could have fallen asleep. Like it was, it was nice. It was nice. There was blankets, which I didn't use the blanket. I had my own.

Alex:

Yeah, there was like a bar outside and a coffee shop. Ice cream? I'm just, I'm like, what is this? No

Elizabeth:

give me some gummies and a blue slushie, like, damn. Like, what happened to the good ol movie theater butter popcorn? Now it's like gourmet.

Alex:

all I want here. Please cut my ticket price in half. I will not use the rest of this.

Elizabeth:

Although the chairs were pretty clutch, I will, I won't lie, but it was, it

Alex:

Okay, I will use that. Increase it 20%. I'm fine with that.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, no, I don't really go to the movie theater either. I feel like I go to the movies like once a year. So, like, this is my movie I guess this year, although Stan definitely wants to see Deadpool. Oh, and Wicked comes out! Oh my god, we'll definitely go see Wicked. Wicked.

Alex:

ooh. Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff

Elizabeth:

I will go see Wicked. So this is the year for movies, I guess. I'm going to, the movie theater gods unite. Liz will be there at least thrice this year. So news, there's the news of the day, hot off the press. Oh my God. Well, any Hizu, uh, I think I, I felt like I just kind of came in like full steam ahead in the intro, because like I said, nervous energy, uh, but I, I talked about pride month For those who don't know, it's Pride Month, or the tail end of Pride Month. And it just, I've been listening to a lot of my podcasts that, you know, are talking about different things, having different themes about, in relation to Pride Month, and sexuality's been a very common one, and it's been enjoyable to listen to, and it just got me thinking, like, What is sexuality? Like, what is, you know, what is sexuality? But you know,

Alex:

I mean, what even is sexuality?

Elizabeth:

what happened was, see what happened was, I started listening to Chop, see what happened was I started listening to Chopperone, and uh, it just sent me into a tailspin,

Alex:

I, I imagine you are not the only one.

Elizabeth:

yeah, I'm just like, whoa, what's happening, I don't even know what's happening to me, I don't even know, like, and also, I don't know when the last time I fangirled this hard over like a musician, like, it's definitely been some time, so. Like maybe when Cardi B first came out with like her big mainstream album I was like oh just listen to that album back to back all over night and day 24 7. That's how I feel right now. I can't stop Chaperone and it's like just brought up a lot of thoughts in myself and like not thoughts like uh realizations but like oh acceptance and things like that and um. I don't know. Like I said, you're my, my girlie to shoot the shit with. So I was like, well, let's just open the can of worms and see where we land. So that's, that's kind of the plan for today's episode is. So, you know, for those who are regular city in between, you're probably like, Oh, we're going to talk about sexuality today. Okay. And you know what? I'm a grownup according to my license and my birth certificate. So we're going to talk about sexuality cause we can. Now, when I'm watching a Bridgerton sex scene, and I get very bashful and have to close my eyes, that's a different story. Oh, God.

Alex:

I, I seriously am like the last person to the Bridgerton bandwagon. I have got to see an episode or two. Does it have gay people in it? Cause I really like that. Love.

Elizabeth:

it does, yes, it does have, um, it does have gay people, and I feel like they're setting up their first kind of like main queer romance. Um, maybe, I don't, I don't know if it'll be the next season or what, but they're setting it up. It's good. I mean, it's not like the best thing ever, but it's, it's like a sexually charged Regency drama. So, I mean, what's not to like about that? But I will say, side note, Queen Charlotte, which is like in the Bridgerton universe, which is like the younger love story of like the queen in the series. That was amazing. okay. I was shocked by how hard I cried at the end of that one. Like, I mean, audibly sobbed. anyways, I digress So yeah, there's some queer representation

Alex:

I

Elizabeth:

just gonna get better I guess or and get more inflated not inflated, but you know what I mean I feel like I'm just being very awkward

Alex:

It's just going to get gayer.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, there we

Alex:

say the things, man. Like, Let it out. your

Elizabeth:

I just I feel I just I

Alex:

fly.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, right. But I'm like, I don't want to offend anybody. And I'm like, okay, can I make gay jokes? I don't even know. But with that said, I was like

Alex:

Mm

Elizabeth:

thinking about just when was the first time I even thought about sex or sexuality or like those kinds of feelings. And sorry, mom, for if you're listening. Um, I remember I was like, Hmm, way too young, probably like eight. I'd say eight years old, eight or nine, and I would stay up late when I knew she was asleep. See, this is when you made me sleep in my own bed, mom. Yeah, this is what happened. You put a TV in my room. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. But I mean, there was TV in my room, but

Alex:

I wasn't allowed a TV in my room, and let me tell you, I would have gotten in some more trouble.

Elizabeth:

well, this is probably why children don't have TVs in their room. So I would watch MTV because I'd love the music videos. This is also like at the height of NSYNC and Backstreet Boys.

Alex:

Mm hmm.

Elizabeth:

like, you know where this is going.

Alex:

Yeah, but mine's gonna go real weird, so I can't wait to tell you.

Elizabeth:

Oh god, and I remember there would be this show that would come on late it would come on like Midnight time.

Alex:

Oh, wait.

Elizabeth:

And it was called Undressed. And I'm sure it was like shit TV but it was just like a sexually charged like high school, college, drama and it was like every type of like sexual relationship you could ever think of like gay,

Alex:

that's like HBO, right?

Elizabeth:

Right. Exactly. It was like cheating. It was like affairs. It was just like sexually charged, like lovers, like whatever. It wasn't just like LGBTQ, you know, queer, but it was, it was just sex, but it was this child's first exposure to All of it. Like even, even the same sex, even like, and I was fascinated by all of it. And I didn't understand what was happening, what I was feeling. Um, I think I was like nine years old. So like, it was like right before you really start to get into puberty. So I guess maybe this was just my runway, but I also grew up on too long. And I think that not just

Alex:

My

Elizabeth:

all of my fashion, but like, I watched that movie when I was like five and I haven't stopped since I could recite it

Alex:

So good. It's so good. Man, that I didn't even I didn't even like, realize at that point when I was watching Too Wong Fu that And so many of my moments are not realizing it until I, it was like, hit me in the face, you know what I mean? Like, but I digress. The point is, is I love To Wong Fu and that, I'll just would watch that over and over and over again. I loved it. So

Elizabeth:

I loved it so much. And like at five and six, I had no idea they were men. I had no idea. Like, you know, my naive, I had no idea and I would just watch it. And I thought they were just really big women and I loved their clothes and their attitudes. Cause like, I got none of the nuance when I was that

Alex:

right? Right.

Elizabeth:

And then you have RuPaul coming down like out of the ceiling and a skin tight rebel flag dress. And you're like,

Alex:

amazing.

Elizabeth:

yeah, no.

Alex:

Amazing.

Elizabeth:

we should, man, I wish you were here. We can watch that movie together. I would love it. Uh, but yeah, so those were like, you know, my first kind of exposures to sexuality. I mean, I was definitely that girl in high school that learned in the senior, it was senior year or junior year high school, in the chorus room when we were waiting to sing during a recital. When two of the guys explain what a blow job was to me. So like, you know, I've had some of those stereotypical like experiences of like, you know, Oh, she learned not a band camp, but a chorus recital. But

Alex:

And chorus recital.

Elizabeth:

it is what it is. And I've always just asked questions and I'm an only child. So I didn't have a sibling to like learn from and, you know, and. I definitely wasn't gonna ask my nana and my papa about shit like that and my mom was a single mom working So it's like I just learned on my own and some Of it was maybe a little too fast and some of it was like a little too slow because like I saw all this But I didn't understand it so then like when I had my own experiences there was like Immaturity and naivety to it because i'm like well, I don't like wait I do this. I don't

Alex:

Well, and, and not only that, but you have no like comparison, right? So this is kind of junkie trash TV and this is your first, Like exposure to different types of relationships other than, so like this is the first queer

Elizabeth:

was.

Alex:

that you were seeing. And I imagine that it was not, Uh, representative of most queer

Elizabeth:

Oh, no, it was very much like softcore porn, but like

Alex:

Yeah. Yes.

Elizabeth:

like the nudity aspect of it. I can't believe i'm admitting this on the podcast. Oh my god. There's definitely some Some people who i'm like, sorry guys, please you can still look me in the eye when I see you next time um, but anyways

Alex:

you tell me, you told me about, um, when you, uh, would go through like MTV and VH1 and like, look at, look at the music videos and of course they were all very sexy and sexually charged and stuff like that, um, as they still are, but. I remember this one particular video that I could not get enough of. So like I'd come home, sorry, mom, I would come home and be like, okay, I'm going to get on VH1 so that way I can wait for the Aerosmith crazy episode or the Aerosmith crazy music video where Liv Tyler and Alicia Silverstone are skinny dipping in the lake. And also that like, It's their dad in the band, so that's weird that he would, like, sexualize his daughter.

Elizabeth:

that is so fucking weird. Ew

Alex:

so that's really weird. But I was just all about seeing Lou Tyler get naked in Skinny Dip, even though you didn't see anything, but I wasn't allowed to watch it. So, like, very much tried to sneak it in. And then, of course, there's, like, the, we didn't have HBO. So I'd be going through like with the, um, you know, trying to get on the channel for whatever in between channels. So you could see a glimpse of a boob or something.

Elizabeth:

You're hilarious. You were hilarious. So I wasn't even that sneaky. I was, well, I was thinking with the MTV, but that was it. Like I was like, I found that and I was so innocent. I had no idea like anything else like that existed. Right. I just saw, I found this really insanely crazy TV show and it's like, what am I watching? I don't know, but it's making me feel weird things, but this is weird. I don't know. But then this is also the girl when I was like seven had a crush on Paul Hogan, who, for those who don't know, was Crocodile Dundee.

Alex:

Oh my god.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, and he's also like, you know, quadruple my age. So, you know, maybe there's some daddy issues wrapped up into that. Like why was that my six year old, seven year old crush? And not like Jonathan Taylor Thomas or something, but like whatever.

Alex:

Amazing. Amazing.

Elizabeth:

you know, I should like, we all know Jeff Goldblum is my boo thing. And one day he will be on this podcast and it will be amazing.

Alex:

feels the same way. And my bestie for that matter.

Elizabeth:

God, is just, that's something Stan just accepts about me. He's like, ah, yeah, I get it. I

Alex:

Yeah. He's just a big ol weirdo and everybody loves that.

Elizabeth:

weirdo. He's such,

Alex:

It's everybody wants to also be a weirdo. Everybody wants to just fly their freak flag,

Elizabeth:

Own your weird. Own your

Alex:

And when you're weird,

Elizabeth:

Own your fashion. Own your hair. Own your personality. Own your sexuality. Own your food preferences.

Alex:

Let people cringe,

Elizabeth:

Let me film a video in public and not look at myself. Like, look at me. Cause like, I'm really trying to work on that, but god dang it. I'm concerned you're all staring at me, even though I know you're not. I know you're not. Geez. Anyways, Paul Hogan. So there's that. And side note, that's another movie that I watched religiously. And I would, like, walk around and, like, do this to animals. Because I think I could, like, you know, get their attention. Because that's what he would do. I'm so weird. God bless. It's amazing I

Alex:

Oh, man. When I was like eight or nine, I think it was maybe around there. My cousin, she had just come over and I think we had just met or like we were just introduced to one another very recently and she was always the type to like, uh, you know, I was the type to follow along a troublemaker and she was the type to be a troublemaker. So one time my mom posted on us, um, while I'm at the keyboard on AOL chat rooms. Right?

Elizabeth:

Oh, definitely had my Yahoo experience there. God.

Alex:

and I was pretending to be gay.

Elizabeth:

I was trying to find Daniel Radcliffe because Harry Potter had just come out and I was like convinced that the guy in the chat room knew Daniel and he was gonna connect us.

Alex:

I'm so

Elizabeth:

my handle or like my name was Little Miss Goody Two Shoes, which is hysterical to think about.

Alex:

Mine must have been a real emo, I'm sure. Like, it was just, like, very sad and repressed. I just wanted to make sure everybody knew I was very emo,

Elizabeth:

Yeah, you know, yeah, wow, my mother is probably listening going, wow, I probably trusted you a little too well, didn't I kid? But you know, everyone has these experiences like in some way shape or fashion on their own scale and it's part of growing up. It's a part of going, oops, I should have looked at that. Oops, I did it anyway. And then you're like, well, what does that mean? Look at your eggplant. I don't know. Like, you know,

Alex:

I'm real scared to start having open and honest conversations with my daughter. Let me tell you why. I mean, we already do right at age appropriate, but like, I really, really want to be very sex positive. Um, with her and that scares the shit out of me,

Elizabeth:

Yeah, don't ask me. I have no kids. I don't have to think about that yet.

Alex:

have this conversation and not show you my face because I cannot hide my facial reactions and I need to, when my kids telling me something that is, It's gonna freaking make my heart drop to the bottom of my stomach and I gotta be cool about it. I'm scared.

Elizabeth:

Maybe there's like books that, like, maybe there's like children's books that like help you address it. Like, you

Alex:

I feel like I just gotta be. Yeah.

Elizabeth:

let's call Chapel Rowan. I mean, seriously, I'm

Alex:

I'm, I feel like Chapel Rowan will know.

Elizabeth:

Oh, God

Alex:

ask for recommendations.

Elizabeth:

so obsessed with her. It's not even healthy. It's not healthy. And it's also not healthy. How quick it happened like this. We're on like week two. So like it's very soon. It's when she came out in that fricking statue of liberty outfit at the governor's ball. I was like, who the hell is this woman? Like, Oh my God.

Alex:

love it.

Elizabeth:

that's when the affair began. So even Stan's humming

Alex:

It's all down from there. Downhill from there, yeah.

Elizabeth:

sings it. I was singing it all weekend. Now my mom likes her. Yeah.

Alex:

My best friend, who's straight and has an arrow, she would love to be a lesbian because, let's be honest, most men suck. Um, so she's like, she would love to be a lesbian. Absolutely not. She's very much, unfortunately, attracted to men. And, um, she Loves Chaplone and is singing it in her car like, like she's the biggest less she ever was. Just blasting

Elizabeth:

some of the lyrics are like,

Alex:

can't imagine life without her girlfriend. And just

Elizabeth:

all right, there's about to be a not safe for work lyric, but there is literally a lyric in one of her songs. She's like knees deep, get eaten out in the passenger side. And I'm just like, and then I'm like, you know what? Hell yeah. Because there are so many male singers that sing about shit like that. And it's just, I've never heard a mainstream song about a woman singing about a woman. And it's like. You know, hot and great.

Alex:

about your sexuality, which

Elizabeth:

Exactly. And I think that's, what's so alluring about her music is like, and I think that's why I was empowered for this conversation because like, she is not about being a lesbian, it's just about owning your sexuality so authentically and pandering just such a wide audience. Like I was on Tik TOK and they call it like, um, pink pony grandpa or something. And it's like some older gentlemen, like, I mean, gosh, he's gotta be like, 70s or something, maybe 80s, just singing every word to pink pony club like at one of her concerts. And I'm just like, is this her grandpa? Which I don't think it is. I think

Alex:

Is this her grandpa?

Elizabeth:

like, it's just, I don't know. And like I said, like I got Stan singing her, I got my mom singing her. I have so many friends who are obsessed with her right now. Like, and, and she is singing about fucking sexual, very sexually, literally almost.

Alex:

have been doing for eons.

Elizabeth:

That song, Picture You, that's so beautiful, is about, like, pleasing yourself. And, like, I listened to the lyrics and I was like, This feels vaguely sexually charged. And I started, like, listening to the lyrics even more, cause it's a really pretty song, seems like a ballad. And I'm like,

Alex:

Little love ballads to yourself.

Elizabeth:

my fire. I'm like, Oh my God, is this about like pleasing yourself? And I'm like, Oh,

Alex:

Is this about me?

Elizabeth:

no. Oh my God. But like, you know, you just, she goes there and it's like still somehow not inappropriate. Like, I mean, it is definitely don't let your children listen to it, but like, I don't know. It's just, she's awesome. Um, and you know, in the spirit of pride month, I was like, I want to talk about sexuality. And. owning sexuality. How did we learn about sexuality? And I'm sure anyone listening, you probably had a different path to learning to like, did anybody really have a birds and a bees conversation? And also did it end and begin there? You know?

Alex:

Yeah, we did. We did. My mom, we had birds and bees. I mean, obviously it was specific. I mean, not obviously, but my, it was very like specific around, um, heterosexual relationships between cis people. Like, there was no representation in that conversation. It was kind of just the clinical, this is how, how baby's made, this is how your period happens, which I've already had to explain to Riley, the period situation. Yeah, she's very curious. And so I, you know, when she asks the questions, I just gotta take a deep breath and go. Well, let me tell you about how a period happens and how babies come out of you. So far, you've not asked about how they get there. And I'm not pushing the subject, let me tell you what.

Elizabeth:

you sounded like a child book. You're like, okay, class. So a menstrual cycle, call me Mrs. Flo. Holy

Alex:

my god.

Elizabeth:

I'm dead. That's funny. Oh my God. well, have fun with that. Glad, you know, I haven't, obviously I'm not a mom, so I don't have to worry about those conversations, but I'm more concerned with if I have a boy having that conversation of like, all

Alex:

I mean, yeah,

Elizabeth:

I'm like, I'm gonna keep you home until you're 18. And then, tell, yeah, then you're on your own. No, just kidding.

Alex:

you literally have to do like, especially with kids who are assigned male at birth, right? They are taught in society to behave a certain way, right? Boys will be boys. Whether or not your parents are teaching you that, That society in general is teaching you that. The media is teaching you that. And so, like, um, like, we have to be really, really active with our boys, with our children who are assigned male at birth. Um, and teaching them anti rape things. You know what I mean? Like, we have to teach them not to be rapists because Our society teaches differently. And so it's really important that we're having those conversations. So when I was pregnant, I was very nervous to have a boy, not only for that, but to even have, make a decision around circumcision without having any personal experience. That was really nerve wracking.

Elizabeth:

And I feel like that Reddit thread would be a little concerning. So it's like, interrupt your own like risk.

Alex:

Yeah.

Elizabeth:

gracious. Um, and it's like, it's something society teaches them to, you know, I don't want to go and say society encourages that, but it's, they don't discipline it. And there's no like, you know, I don't know, like, we could, that's a whole other conversation that we could like snowball into, but I feel like, I don't remember really having a birds and the bees conversation. I feel like I learned everything from health class, which that's like terrifying and people, you know, and I feel like I was a little bit of a late bloomer, um, because of that. And yeah, I guess I let that freak flag fly when I got to college and that's when I had other experiences and like, you know, just. Tried everything, I guess you could say, for lack of better words. But, um, it's just interesting where we are now as a society, and you have Chaperone, like, just screaming her sexuality from the rooftops. And, and, you know, and like, it's not even about that part. It's just the thing that I want to talk about is, it's like, that's just who she is. something that I bought into that, it's just like, It was way into my obsession with her before I realized, Oh, is she a lesbian? Because like, I didn't even care about that. I, it wasn't even something I noticed because where we are as a society where we're getting to, and I definitely know, like, it's not everybody, but where we are generally getting to is like, it's not about a label. It's just a part of you. It's an expression. It is just, uh, a lived experience and that's where I like, and I will, I'll tell myself I am 33 years old and I was like, do I even know what the definition of queer means? Because like I was reading an interview with them I was like, well, she seems very much like a lesbian, so let me just see, is this a different thing? And it says queer is a all encompassing term, at least now, I know it was not, not in

Alex:

well, it's supposed to always has been, but then there's people who have taken it and used it as a slur, just like many other terms, right? Um, which is not cis, cis is not a slur, just for anybody who's wondering. Anybody who's listening to Elon Musk out there, lunatic.

Elizabeth:

wait, what did he say?

Alex:

That cis is a slur! He's like

Elizabeth:

Like cisgender?

Alex:

cisgender, like, on Twitter, he's like banning the word cisgender because he thinks it's a slur. And I'm like, my friend, it just means you're the same sex as you were assigned at birth, I don't understand what your issue is.

Elizabeth:

yeah, about yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well. I'm also just like how, that's like a real word, so I'm just trying to figure out how it's a derogatory term and like why he views it that way. But that's, that's, I'm just trying to understand his logic there, that makes no sense, but

Alex:

Well, and that's the thing, is it doesn't make any sense, and the logic is, let's, let's, let's, yeah.

Elizabeth:

That, yeah, okay.

Alex:

Again, another rabbit hole. God, we could talk for hours, I tell you

Elizabeth:

though, but I, I looked up queer and it was, you know, silly to find out, it's like an umbrella term, it catches all, encompasses all, and it's basically, for me it's like a lack of label, and that's what I like about it, It's just, it really is for anybody who isn't just straight as a pencil, you know, that doesn't even mean romantically interested and same sex or whatever sex. It doesn't necessarily mean, Oh, you're sexually attracted. I mean, it could just mean like you have thoughts of the same sex and it begins and ends there. Like, and it kind of blew my mind of like, Oh, it's just. So inclusive, I don't even know. And it had me thinking like, I think I'm queer. And then I started talking to some friends about it and like, Oh, by that term, I think I'm queer too. And I was like, and you know, I'm married, I am sexually attracted to men and I am romantically interested in men. but I mean, I've messed around women before and I didn't hate it, but like, that's kind of where, again, begins and ends there. But. I don't know. Wow. Yeah, so I'm just thinking of some of the people listening to this right now, and I feel like I'm blushing. I am like, Mom, you can turn it off. It's okay. Um, I'm just like, thank God my grandmother doesn't listen to this. Dear God. Then, she probably doesn't even know what a podcast is. Thank goodness there. Um, but, um, With that said, this isn't like a episode on I'm going to rehash like my experiences because like, you know, you could save that for the book one day, but, it's more of just having a conversation around like something that one I think is a little taboo to talk about and I just want to make it like. Hey, it doesn't have to be Ted Boo, it's just a part of who you are and like, I, I'm not labeling myself necessarily anything, but it does feel kind of cool to be like, oh, so that's what that is, oh, okay. Because of course, like, I went down a rabbit hole of articles and things and there's a lot of micro labels Alex, holy fucking

Alex:

Well, I was just going to say labels are so interesting. Labels can be really helpful in, like, identifying your own experience and talking about yourself in a, having language to talk about your identity experience, right? Whether it be your gender, your sexuality, um, your romanticism, any of that. Um. Yeah. But then they can also be very limiting, right? And so some of us will use a lot of labels, some of us will use none, some of us will use umbrella labels, like queer. and it's, it's, it really just depends on the person on how you, like, how you identify with it. If it's helpful, use it. If it's not, don't. Period. You know what I mean? I think there's, there's helpfulness in finding your people. You know what I mean? Um, and then again, there's the limiting aspect of it is, am I really finding my people? Because am I putting myself in this box? Because I feel like I have to put myself into a box. We

Elizabeth:

it'd be like, you were just saying that. And like, I say that as a joke, I'm not trying to make fun of anybody with who, cause like, I think the point is you can have, you can use 12 different labels cause I swear to gosh, there are like 27 layers to it or you could just be human. You could just be queer. You could just be whatever the case may be. I mean, one could argue being queer, like, maybe you, you've had multiple partners at once, I think queer is a representation of a spectrum, in my opinion, and I'm not, and I don't mean, that's not ignorant to say,

Alex:

No, no, no, not at all. I mean, it is a spectrum. Queerness defines a wide variety of identities, and it's basically just not going with the social norms. So whatever goes the grain of social norm is, is considered queer, right? And then there's a zillion under umbrellas, LGBTQQIA. And then you've got all of your, all of your gender identity umbrellas. You've got all of your sexuality umbrellas, your romanticism umbrellas. Let's not forget our asexual, brothers and sisters and siblings here, who don't have sexual desire and they're still included in this queerness, right? Or demisexual people, like there's just such an array of identities because there's an array, very wide spectrum of experiences and nobody's is really going to be exactly the same.

Elizabeth:

right, and I think that's the beauty of it, and, self love is a pillar here, right, I always talk about that, and this conversation is just to keep pushing the needle, bridging the gap of acceptance and love no matter what. Because I know there's a lot of shame still attached because there is such a binary conversation around this and I'm trying to always push it's no, it's a spectrum. It is a rainbow, you know, literally and figuratively. And the more boxes you put yourself in, the more anxieties they create. So I just want to embrace like you and your uniqueness. And like if that involves 12 labels, cool, good for you. If it just like allows you to accept, okay, I'm different. Like, that's great. That's all I want to. So it's, I don't know. I just want to have more conversations around things that make people feel shame and isolated from society because the society is what drove this to begin with. Like, I know maybe you're tired of hearing the, uh, it's a societal construct, but like, I hate to beat a dead horse, but

Alex:

But it is.

Elizabeth:

And,

Alex:

let's not do it.

Elizabeth:

And, you know, like we evolve as humans, like socially, like we are socially evolving. Like that is definitely a thing. And I'm, there are, we're at different stages of it, right? Like for sure. I assume as we progress in that direction, it'll be more of an awareness and, and acceptance, but just own who you are and that should be okay. And you don't need to worry about. whether you're sexually attracted to this person, but romantically interested in this person, like who cares? It doesn't matter. It doesn't make you weird. It doesn't make you different. It doesn't, it's just,

Alex:

And I would say, like, it absolutely matters to your point earlier about, like, like, yes, we need visibility. We need people talking about who they are

Elizabeth:

was what I was trying to say.

Alex:

for

Elizabeth:

I could not

Alex:

you know, but at the same time, you're welcome at the same time, like, We think about the term coming out and is it really even necessary anymore? Because that says to us, it says to us, if I have to come out, that means I'm different than what everybody else expects. Um, I found this quote

Elizabeth:

I know that's easier said than done, too. Just FYI to anyone listening who's had hellacious coming out stories and

Alex:

Multiple times, I'm sure. Like as you, as you evolve, as you understand yourself more. I know I've like, I just stopped coming out because I like, I'm like,

Elizabeth:

I was going to ask, do you want to share your story? when you were sharing your story earlier, it sounds like you kind of already were always drawn to same sex. So,

Alex:

Absolutely.

Elizabeth:

your journey or acceptance?

Alex:

when I was 13 too. Like, and I, we would hold hands, but I'd be like, but I like boys. And I would get so, so I would date a lot of boys and like as soon as we would get together. I would lose interest. so it was like really about the chase for me. And I remember this time where my mom, I was so offended because my mom was asking about my beau. And I didn't know she meant like B E A U, like your guy, you're, you're, you're a boo, you're cute. cute bow is like, um, beautiful or attractive in French, right? I thought she meant boyfriend of the week, B O W.

Elizabeth:

That's hilarious.

Alex:

So, like, I, I, I literally was just, I mean, comphet was real for me for, you know, The first 18 years of my life. And then I went to a party and I kissed a girl and I was like the, all of the, the fireworks went off and all of the streamers and everybody was like, well, everybody in my head was like, Oh my

Elizabeth:

everywhere. I'm dead. I love you. Like everyone, you're like, oh wait, well everyone in my head, but that's okay. Thank you.

Alex:

the light bulb going

Elizabeth:

Right, right, right.

Alex:

it was bananas. Cause I was like. Oh my god, this makes so much sense as to why I've always liked girls and I keep trying to make out with them.

Elizabeth:

So you said you were 18 when you finally had that experience? Wow.

Alex:

yep, and then I moved up to Flagstaff for like a good, uh, nine months and sort of like had my foundational, uh, college time there with a whole group of queer people and, um, It was one of the best experiences of my life. It was very short lived, but I was doing some reading recently about queer people and how, they sort of experience this time, this, they experience time differently when you come out, or sometimes when you come out. And that is like, you almost, you're now, you're free to be yourself, right? And you almost go through this like second puberty. And. You are in this very pivotal time in your life. So that nine months that I spent living two hours north was one of the most foundational times of my life that I remember so vividly. Uh, more so than any other time period in my life. It's, it's, it just like, it's, it's like I, it just have cemented that timeline and it feels so much bigger in my life than many other time, many other. Portions of my life. So, you know, it was, it, after I came out, it was just really incredible immersing myself into queer culture and kind of gaining sort of a foundation on, um, queer and, feminist views, allyship, that kind of thing. Yeah.

Elizabeth:

well not everyone, I need to stop generalizing, I keep saying everyone, but I feel like a lot of people, myself included, had a lot of awakenings in college, like that's where I took a philosophy class, and Oh God, that opened my brain up to so many things and now, you know, that's why I'm always like existentialism is my religion, but I don't

Alex:

Mm hmm.

Elizabeth:

regardless, um, I, I digress, but college was like the time where you're like, Oh, cause I mean, as it should be like your time to explore, but like think differently, think bigger, think objectively, challenge in your beliefs because you've lived in such a bubble. So. I guess you were 18 as you're saying it, when finally the light bulb went off,

Alex:

Yeah, even though like I was before that I was like in the gay straight alliance and I had a t shirt That said ally with a straight couple on the

Elizabeth:

right? Absolutely. Always, always. I was a theater kid. I was always like, know, I mean, I grew up on two Wong Fu I, I clearly was an ally before I knew what an ally was like. That's why I'm like, who cares? Like, just let them live their life. Like why does it matter to you? You know what

Alex:

Exactly exactly

Elizabeth:

of gross if you think about like why people care too much. Like, so you really care what these people are doing in their bedroom. Like that's kind of like gross.

Alex:

exactly rot. I got this quote here by rodney s williams jr He's a storyteller strategist and an organizer and he says with coming out We give others the opportunity to reject our visibility as if it's their choice. So I thought that really hit me because I'm thinking about it and I'm thinking about coming out and like how sometimes we feel like we have to come out because it's different than what society says. Right.

Elizabeth:

somebody and I agree with everything you're saying. However, we know that maybe families or friends or, or communities are not accepting. So sometimes coming out is a way of like a safety net, I think to like own your truth

Alex:

Absolutely.

Elizabeth:

that's also shame on society for, you know, having to enable that net to begin with. But as I said earlier, like, I hope that I think we're tracking hopefully one day in that direction where it's not about a label, it's about just being human, you

Alex:

Yeah. Yes. And that's the ultimate goal. And, and of course until then, we have things like having to come out because people still have societal expectations of us. But as we go and we, we. You know, have our future generations. Let's teach them that you don't necessarily have to come out. People can just be who they are. You know, you don't even have to pick a label. You can just be you. Be you.

Elizabeth:

And you don't even have to come out. You can just honestly keep it in your head for as long as you want. Or you can

Alex:

nobody's business, but your own, man. Yep.

Elizabeth:

can, I don't know, I was trying to think of an inside out reference and I was like, you could tell bing bong and I was like, well, that just got weird. I don't even know why I was thinking that,

Alex:

No, I love bing bong. Also, my girlfriend has a bing bong stuffed animal that smells like cotton candy.

Elizabeth:

Oh, well, that is interesting. Did it come smelling like cotton candy? Oh, okay.

Alex:

was like, no, she didn't send it.

Elizabeth:

Okay. Like, did you just give us some body spray? Like,

Alex:

it's like, cause you know how bing bong is made of cotton candy.

Elizabeth:

Yes, that makes

Alex:

So the doll

Elizabeth:

That's such a

Alex:

or the,

Elizabeth:

Of course, Disney would make it smell like cotton candy. Of

Alex:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so cute. I love it so much. I just, every time.

Elizabeth:

You're hilarious. Oh, you're hilarious. So, when you came out, was your family accepting? Did you have a hard time with that?

Alex:

Yeah. I mean, my, my parents were pretty accepting. My sister was like, Okay, yeah, I know. Can I go? Cause I have to do the dishes. Like when I told her about it, she was like, okay. And so she was the,

Elizabeth:

all knew. We all knew, Alex.

Alex:

she was the, like, she knew before I knew kind of a thing. And she was also like, nobody has to come out. Just be yourself. That's just how she was, you know? Um, and then my family, my, I think my mom was really, I don't think she was upset that, uh, that I'm gay by any means. I'm sure there was some grieving that she had to do because when you have kids, you have an idea of what their life is going to look like. And then when they tell you it's going to look different, that is something that every parent has to go through.

Elizabeth:

I can see that.

Alex:

but she was also afraid of like how I would be treated and what things I would have access to and how hard life would be. And that was tough. You know, that was tough for me because It was like, Oh, you know, I was really grateful that I had this mom who was supportive and who just really, really cared about my life experience and, and my happiness. I also didn't want to have to bear the burden of those worries. but so I instead decided to just do the best to not only change my experience, but everybody else's around me. Be the best advocate I can. You know what I mean? And she's proud of me. She's so damn proud of me.

Elizabeth:

didn't they come to your, um, Art show? I was talking about art installation.

Alex:

with my hair. Uh,

Elizabeth:

It's fabulous and curly and voluptuous. Your hair looks great.

Alex:

Thank you.

Elizabeth:

We're both having good hair days if I say so myself. Like my bangs are bang, my bangs are banging and your curls are um, your

Alex:

My curls are curling. This one's kind of doing a little weird thing. I'm, I'm not really sure what's happening here, but it's fine. It's fine. Uh,

Elizabeth:

stan a supportive mom and dad. So, because I was saying, didn't they come to your art show? They came to your art show, right? Yeah.

Alex:

really embarrassing. Oh my God. Okay. I am so grateful again, that they went with me. Do not recommend going to an erotic art show. With your parents. Cause that shit is weird,

Elizabeth:

Oh, I'm

Alex:

but I'm so glad that they came. I'm so glad that we got to go together and it felt like a really, like, just reassurance and, just another example of their pride for me. You know what I mean? Like the unwavering love and pride for me, even if I'm, drawing naked ladies and being the gayest gay I can be.

Elizabeth:

The theme of this episode lets your freak flag fly. So, you know.

Alex:

fly, man.

Elizabeth:

you, it's that. I'm trying to think like mine. I don't know. My mom's like, can you not cuss as much? I'm like, fuck no,

Alex:

No.

Elizabeth:

I'm just kidding. I love my mom. I love my mom. Sometimes she gets in my head.

Alex:

cuss, but then she does too.

Elizabeth:

You know, that's another conversation. I I get some words are insensitive and not appropriate, but why does fuck have to be one of them? Because like, I love a good, early get it out. You're angry. It's a good solid sound. So

Alex:

my kiddo keeps doing it. And I'm like, you don't do it. Right. And I more specifically don't do it in front of other people. I kind of don't care. I mean, it's a little cringey when my daughter says the F word, but you know, it's entirely my fault, but I'm just like, please, dear God, don't say it in front of anybody else.

Elizabeth:

Yeah, right

Alex:

So again, trying to hide the face and be not emotionally react to her saying the F words. So that way she doesn't want to do it more.

Elizabeth:

That's what my mom says to me she's like another piece of advice I can tell you about having kids don't Emotionally react when they're trying to get a reaction out of you and like when they're doing stuff like that anyways, we are all over the place

Alex:

You sure are.

Elizabeth:

here's our, our moms and our one on ones with our mothers and

Alex:

Mm hmm.

Elizabeth:

were and supportive they were. Thanks mom!

Alex:

Thanks, Mom.

Elizabeth:

Anywho. what are the key takeaways of this episode? Sexuality is a spectrum.

Alex:

Fly your freak flag.

Elizabeth:

Fly your freak

Alex:

Say it five times fast, though.

Elizabeth:

No. Fly your freak flag, fly your freak flag, fly your freak flag, fly your freak flag, fly your freak flag. Oh, I fucked up the fath, the fath one. I messed up the fath one, the fifth one. Couldn't do it.

Alex:

Labels can be helpful, and labels can be limiting. So Use them at your discretion and you don't have to, if you don't want to.

Elizabeth:

X, choose not to answer. Totally okay.

Alex:

Yeah, absolutely.

Elizabeth:

And, uh,

Alex:

business. Nobody else's

Elizabeth:

Sexuality is a spectrum and it is, it's not something to be ashamed of. it's not something you have to tell anybody and you know, it's not even a big deal. So, um, but that, I don't mean that to say to invalidate your experience. because owning your truth is the most important thing out of this whole episode. So own your truth and know that I hope everyone accepts you for who you are right from the get go, but if not, there are people out there and you will find your communities. So,

Alex:

Absolutely. You know, there's a couple of things that come to mind a, I wanted to mention that representation matters. That's another takeaway here because that. Really, really makes a difference in how somebody can see themselves and in their relationships and themselves that kind of thing And then the other thing is I already forgot it.

Elizabeth:

where's that train of thought? Do do do do do do do do do. Inside out to reference the stream of consciousness.

Alex:

Yep. Yep,

Elizabeth:

going down to the back of the mind right now.

Alex:

the train has left the station, but um, yeah be yourself did I already say the thing about using labels if you want to? And don't, if you don't, there's a fun song about that. You guys should Google it. It's an Australian comic. Can't remember anything else. So there you go.

Elizabeth:

And on that, on that, Love who you love, do what you want, and, um, don't bring your parents to erotic, uh, art shows because things might get weird. But, you

Alex:

weird, but if they're there to

Elizabeth:

again, maybe

Alex:

suck it up

Elizabeth:

Yeah, but then again, maybe let them, so, who knows.

Alex:

It's so nice though. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's weird, but it's very nice. And just like own your sexuality. Be you. Unapologetically and, you know, look for your people because they're out there. They're out there. I remember the last thing. Sometimes people say I'm too much or they say other people are too much, right? Especially folks with like ADHD and stuff like that. Not to get on the neurodivergence thing, but

Elizabeth:

up hearing that my whole life.

Alex:

the whole you're too much. My favorite mind like reframing is go find less.

Elizabeth:

I literally have a sticker on my laptop that says, if I'm too much, go find less. Oh, gosh.

Alex:

Go. Find less. Be yourself unapologetically, and if people cringe, let them cringe. That's their bad feelings to deal with. You don't have to feel, you don't have to deal with that, right?

Elizabeth:

In the words of Casey Musgraves, follow your own arrow.

Alex:

Oh man, I love that song. It's so sweet.

Elizabeth:

It is sweet. Love her. Well, on that note, Alex, I think that is, uh, I think that concludes today's episode. So where can everyone find you? Cause, uh, you know, in case they want to see your art, and in case they want to see your hilarious videos. Like ramblings, not that you ramble, but also you are always posting either hilarious memes or very educational shit where I'm like, oh, I didn't know that. Okay, good to know. So, you're

Alex:

is the rollercoaster of my brain is my Instagram story. So that's have a fun ride with

Elizabeth:

she's like a Wikipedia.

Alex:

at yeah at the dot perpetual dot hobbyist and soon. I don't know when this episode is going to come out, but soon I will have a little more than a landing page on my website alexarmijo. com.

Elizabeth:

Ooh!

Alex:

So. I should put a little bit more out there before you publish this. I should work on my website.

Elizabeth:

Well, you had a landing page, that's impressive though, that's,

Alex:

Uh, yeah,

Elizabeth:

that's starting!

Alex:

I bought the, uh, domain, alexarmijo. com. And I'm like, okay, well, I can do this.

Elizabeth:

Buying the domain is half the battle. you've already started. So there you go. Snaps for Alex for already starting. So yeah, I'll go ahead and link it. And even if it's a broken link right now, one day it's going to work. So,

Alex:

right, baby. That's right.

Elizabeth:

I'm dead. That's hilarious. Well, thank you so much, Alex. And, um, for those listening, Inbetween, please don't forget to rate, review, subscribe, and follow wherever you listen to your podcasts, including YouTube. That's where this little guy's gonna be. But yeah, please leave your girls some ratings and some reviews. Uh,'cause word on the street is I need to grow those. So yeah, come on, you help me and one of these days I'm gonna help you. Hey, I help you each week with like my hilarity and my awkwardness. So there's that and my confessions apparently. So there's that too. So again, sorry mother for today's episode. Um, but uh, you can follow me at the in-between podcast on YouTube and TikTok at In Do Between Pod on Instagram and then at Elizabeth. So on that note, Happy Pride Month, and um, if you haven't seen 2 Wong Fu, you need to go watch 2 Wong Fu. So,

Alex:

percent right now. Stop everything you're doing

Elizabeth:

right now.

Alex:

right now.

Elizabeth:

all right, ta ta for now. Bye!

People on this episode

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Elizabeth Cheney Stater

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