Environmental & Racial Justice with Maurice Sampson of Clean Water Action

Black History Month is every month at Clean Water Action. That's why we are excited to feature the stories of Black leaders in the environmental movement. Today, we chat with Maurice Sampson, Clean Water Action's Eastern Pennsylvania Director. Maurice is a life-long environmentalist, Philadelphia’s first recycling coordinator, a national recycling advocate, and Delaware Valley entrepreneur. He served on the National Clean Water Action Board of Directors for 25 years before becoming our Eastern Pennsylvania Director where he leads Environmental Justice campaigns. www.cleanwater.org/podcast

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Transcript

Jenny Vickers (00:03):

Hello, everyone. Welcome to We All Live Downstream, a Clean Water Action podcast. In each episode, we will be interviewing leading environmental and clean water activists about their work in the field. We'll dive deep into topics from drinking water and climate change, to environmental justice, plastic pollution, and toxic chemicals. I'm your host, Jenny Vickers, the National Communications Manager for Clean Water Action. Black history month is every month here at Clean Water Action, so we are excited to feature the stories of black leaders in the environmental movement.

Jenny Vickers (00:34):

Today, we are so thrilled to welcome Maurice Sampson, Clean Water Action's, Eastern Pennsylvania Director. Maurice is a life long environmentalist, Philadelphia's first recycling coordinator, a national recycling advocate and Delaware Valley entrepreneur. He served on the National Clean Water Action board of directors for 25 years before becoming our Eastern Pennsylvania Director. Welcome to We All Live Downstream. So happy to have you here. How are you doing today?

Maurice Sampson (01:01):

I am doing very well. Thank you. It's great to be here.

Jenny Vickers (01:05):

Thanks so much for taking the time. Can you tell our listeners a little bit more about your background and where you're from?

Maurice Sampson (01:11):

Well, sure. Well, first of all, I'm a military brat and my father was in the Air Force. His last stop was-

Jenny Vickers (01:20):

Me too.

Maurice Sampson (01:21):

... oh, there you go. McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey. So although my family is from Texas, we settled here and I pretty much have never been more than 100 miles from that point. When you grow up as a military brat and you travel all the time, what you don't get is childhood friends and those of us that are in that, know that, so I have no need to travel all around because I was here. I got involved in environment very early. I grew up in a community that was evolving, a suburban community, so they cut down the apple orchards and things. And there was a 200 acre woods that I grew up in, that when I was between 16 and 19, I saved those woods, they're open today.

Jenny Vickers (02:12):

Wow.

Maurice Sampson (02:12):

So technically, I am a nimbi because it was in my backyard, I wouldn't have it and it was one of my first duties. But I've been involved since just before the first Earth Day, so plus 50 years, so I have been involved in many, many issues. I've been grassroots oriented from the beginning. I think you can't put everybody in jail, so using policy alone to make environment doesn't work, we need to educate and people need to understand that, if we're going to live on this planet, we got to learn how to live on this planet and that informs a lot of my activism. High school, college, 5 years afterwards, ran a not for profit organization for youth leaders, City Recycling Coordinator for the City of Newark and then for the City of Philadelphia and I got to be the first among the people in the country with those kind of jobs.

Maurice Sampson (03:07):

And then I'm really into garbage, trash is really my first love and understanding how to manage that and close the loop is something I've been doing for really, most of my career. Came into Clean Water and joined the staff, initially because I had a project that went bad and I would have starved if I didn't find a job in a hurry and we needed somebody in Philly. And then after I looked up and saw Donald Trump coming, I thought maybe this would be a good place to stay for a couple of years and that turned out to be a good idea. So here I am, and this has been an interesting and productive move for me.

Jenny Vickers (03:48):

Yeah. Yeah. My dad was in the military, Air Force for 26 years, so I definitely relate to that. I moved every couple years, I relate to not having the friends part.

So you have a long, rich history of environmental activism and you did get involved with Clean Water Action after being on the board. Why did you get involved, besides getting a paycheck, of course? What made you drawn to the organization and what was an early victory or achievement that you are most proud of?

Maurice Sampson (04:23):

Okay. Well, I was drawn to the organization after being asked to serve on a number of national boards for other organizations. And I was always bothered by the fact, when I would go to these national meetings, they would talk about us doing local work as we were the provinces and we didn't understand how the world worked. It was very much to me, I called it beltway Disneyland. It's like, you guys have a sense and you have a lot of power over what happens but you really have no idea what's going on on the ground. And I actually got invited to be in the organizations because of my local perspective.

Maurice Sampson (05:00):

But I swore off ever being involved again. And Bob Wendelgass, our president, is also in Pennsylvania, so I've known Bob for many years. And I like to say, that Bob swindled me into being on the board. And every time I would try and leave, he talked me into it, to the point where when the time came up, I would just talk myself into it. So that's my connection to the organization. I believe we're very grassroots oriented. We don't know what's going on in every office. Before internet, we had no idea because a lot of our work happens and we decide what's going to happen based on what happens in our local offices. So we have us strong grassroots energy and our canvas makes us unique.

Maurice Sampson (05:47):

And to me, the canvas are the real heroes in our organization. The work they do is hard, but they are in your face and they know how to do that without being negative and that really works for me. I think the biggest victory that I've participated in, was working with the Philadelphia office as a volunteer between 2005 and 2007 with Christine Knapp, who is today, the Sustainability Director for City of Philadelphia. And we did a campaign that pretty much forced the city to actually give us recycling. And it was a victory that was so complete that every single goal we had, we met. That's never happened with anything I've done. But that was a magnificent fight and it has been a model to me, for how you do this work. Did I cover all your questions?

Jenny Vickers (06:48):

Yeah, that's perfect. So yeah, that leads me into my next question. You've been in Philly for a long time, over 30 years, you served as nations very first recycling coordinator for Newark and Philadelphia. You led the Recycle Now Philadelphia campaign and later, drafted and helped pass the city's Single Use Plastic Bag Ban. A lot of accomplishments. Why reduce plastic pollution? Why is it so important to our communities?

Maurice Sampson (07:15):

Well, first of all, let me say that, for me, it's about promoting good resource use. I mean, when we say reduce plastic pollution, to me, we are missing the point because it's not plastic or paper, it's less resources, period. And plastics in particular, being an oil resource, to me, is not even a natural resource, it is in an artificial resource and it's important. To answer your question directly, I mean, plastic is poisoning us. The whole process of plastics from the point of extraction, to our using and our getting rid of it, adds no positive value to the environment. In fact, the opposite is true.

Maurice Sampson (08:00):

It's killing us and it is of absolute necessity that we end the use of plastics. And let me be clear about this. We're going to always have them because we can't burn it, we can't bury it and a lot of it's going to be there forever. So we got to figure out, of the plastic that remains after we've stopped producing it from new, how can we use it in durable uses that keep it from getting into the environment? So we're not going to eliminate the use of plastic, but we sure need to stop the whole process of fracking and producing new plastic products. Besides PFAS, I think that's one of the most dangerous things, the most important fights that we have in front of us.

Jenny Vickers (08:50):

Yeah. You mentioned that plastic products are made in facilities, these are petrochemical facilities. They tend to be located in low income communities and communities of color. Residents who live near these facilities are burdened with a high level of exposure to toxic and cancer causing chemicals. Like you said, it's killing us. This is one of the definitions of environmental racism. Can you talk about environmental racism and the injustice of this pollution?

Maurice Sampson (09:18):

Sure. I mean, first I always like to remind people that the concept and the term, environmental justice came from a report that Vernice Travis-Miller helped write, Toxic Wastes in 1987, when they did demographics in order to find what you just reported. That these facilities are so often built near black communities and I'm talking about income, all levels of income. So often, that being black could be a criteria for where you put these plants and that's where the term came from. It's just another form of racism, because we've got a lot of them in this country.

Maurice Sampson (10:01):

I think the real thing to focus on is, what is environmental justice? And for me, it's talking about, how are we going to address that racism? And it is not about all of us getting an equal share of the pollution, that's also a fallacy. It's really about empowering those communities to be full players in our political system, so that they can be engaged to help determine what goes in their neighborhood, no matter what it is. And it goes beyond just oil and petroleum products. In Philadelphia, I think the biggest environmental justice issue is dumping and litter. It is so out of control in this city, it's almost like people are living in landfills or junkyards. And it creates a sense of hopelessness that feeds crime and everything else that's going on.

Maurice Sampson (10:57):

And I also think climate resilience is a form of justice because we're talking about empowering people to learn how to live in the world that is evolving right now. So in addition to what do we need to fight, the question is, what do we need to build, what do we need to create? And hey listen, if all the black communities were fully engaged and voted, the politics of this whole country would be vastly different. And I think dealing with the energy that my vote doesn't count is the most important thing that we need to address, not only in the black community, but everywhere.

Maurice Sampson (11:29):

And the last point I want to make is that, environmental justice is not only going to be for people of color. It's like the Black Lives Matter movement and black lives matter, all lives matter. And we have pipelines that are bringing PFAS that put a slice through all sorts of white communities. We've got longwall mining in very white communities. We've got coal mining in very white communities. This law is going to set a standard that's going to affect everybody. But when we make sure that it's clear for people of color, it's going to be good for everyone. So that's a point that needs to not be lost in the struggle.

Jenny Vickers (12:06):

That's very powerful. And you did mention that report, if any listeners are curious, you can listen to our last podcast, with Vernice where she goes in a little bit more detail about this history. And then Maurice, you did mention the long history of environmental injustice in Pennsylvania communities, but you are leading the way. Like you said, you're focused on advocacy, environmental justice policies in Pennsylvania to ensure racial and economic equity within policy. So tell me more about this work and why it's so critical right now, at this moment in time?

Maurice Sampson (12:40):

Okay. Now we just last week, launched our Environmental Justice in Pennsylvania campaign. And as my wife said to me, when I was writing this up and I called it a movement, she says, "Don't be so presumptuous. You didn't organize the movement." And that's really true. The players that are in this campaign have been involved in the movement for a long time, but they don't necessarily associate what they're doing with environmental justice. So our campaign comes right out of the Clean Water Action playbook. We are organizing a coalition in order to help people to deal with community and social and economic problems. Right? Read the definition of, not the definition, but the mission of the Clean Water Fund, it is classic that.

Maurice Sampson (13:27):

So what we are looking to do, is to identify those people who have been doing the work to bring them together and to empower them by connecting up and helping them with what they do, not asking anybody to focus on somebody else's issue, but to empower theirs. And where do we connect? We connect by supporting the legislation that has been introduced both in Harrisburg and in Philadelphia, that will require any permitting to consider cumulative impacts. Now that's something we all need to understand what that means, cumulative impacts? Right now, when you get a permit, it's as if the environment is pristine and you are building your plant, and the question is, what impact are you going to have? And if you're not going to violate the pristine levels, then you get to do it.

Maurice Sampson (14:18):

When you put all these together in a soup with a lot of other facilities, you're talking about a real toxic environment. And that's what happens around these black communities, is that they don't just get one or two, they get a dozen and they are right at their fence line and they are forced to deal with this. Asthma is not a natural disease. Asthma is a manmade disease from breathing polluted air. I'm surprised people don't understand that. It is not something that just evolved. It's not something that's genetic. It's because of pollution. It is a pollution environment and it is rampant in the community of color and the immigrant community who tends to live in those same communities as well.

Maurice Sampson (15:00):

And one other thing I want to say, I'm real sensitive about how we use environmental justice, because the idea of co-opting concepts has been going on for a long time and co-opting things out of indigenous communities happens too often. Environmental justice organizations are those organizations that are either run by or for people of color, or they are communities that are black, white, and brown, and they're working together as a group and they're sharing in the leadership. Everybody else is an ally. I have a particular mission in Philadelphia when I took this job, to answer the question, what is the role of Clean Water Action and a majority-minority community and that flavors my work.

Maurice Sampson (15:51):

But we are still just an allied organization, we are not an environmental justice organization. We are a traditional white organization that is probably the most diverse of all the rural organizations in the country, but that doesn't change what we are. We do an environmental justice projects, we do environmental justice programs. We are not an environmental justice organization and I think that's important. And in Philly, anyone who attempts to call themselves, "Gee, it's neat, let's call ourselves Environmental Justice." I'm on the phone and they change their name. Fortunately, I've been around in Philly long enough that I have that kind of influence, but we're not going to have this taken away from us before we can make it work for us.

Jenny Vickers (16:33):

And you're doing a lot of coalition building and community work and the Cumulative Impacts Policy legislation you're talking about. Here in New Jersey, they passed one of the strongest cumulative impacts laws in the country. How similar are the New Jersey and Pennsylvania bills?

Maurice Sampson (16:54):

Hey, that's our model.

Jenny Vickers (16:55):

Yeah.

Maurice Sampson (16:56):

I mean, what New Jersey did, sent us a signal that we needed to do it too and so I couldn't give you a side by side comparison.

Jenny Vickers (17:06):

Yeah.

Maurice Sampson (17:07):

But the law is strong enough that in addition to the permit being denied based on cumulative impacts, we also included language that said that the permit can also be turned down based on the weight of community opposition. So we're actually giving the community a voice. It's not just, "Let us hear you. We're not going to do anything about it, but let us hear you." Which is what a lot of these laws are. It says, "If they're is a compelling argument, the DEP will have the authority to turn the permit down." And that's going to help everybody because everyone that has these issues has the same problem. It doesn't matter how much they push, it doesn't matter how many facts. It's almost like the solution is already written, and this is just performance.

Maurice Sampson (17:54):

So just bring you in the room so that we can check the box, that we listen to you speak, but we're not going to go. So this law, when it passes, will have teeth. I don't expect it to happen soon. We've got the first Tea Party legislature in the country in Pennsylvania, but for the governor, this would've been Donald Trump plus six years, and we got a lot of hard work here. But it's providing a tool for us to organize around.

Jenny Vickers (18:24):

Yeah.

Maurice Sampson (18:24):

And to build coalitions around and that's probably its most important feature at the moment. And we are committed here in Pennsylvania to sticking with it until it passes, whether that's two years, three years or ten years.

Jenny Vickers (18:38):

Yeah. Yeah. I think it was a decade long campaign here in New Jersey, so wish you the best of luck. You're talking a little bit about communities. Can you talk about the role communities play in your work? You've already talked a little bit about it, but I know late last year you took community leaders from some of Philadelphia's poorest neighborhoods on a Hood to Waters tour. Why is it so important for people to be involved, even at a local level on environmental issues?

Maurice Sampson (19:06):

Well, what I have learned in the black and brown community in Philadelphia, when I started the work here, we started doing work in 2016 in response to Flint. Our response to Flint in Philly, was to educate the people in these communities about lead. Not only was that appropriate, it was an issue that we didn't have to explain was important, people already got that. And in doing that, we became accepted as Clean Water Action in those communities and that is where, in those communities, change really happens. I mean, policies have been created for any number of things over the years that have never translated to action in those communities.

Maurice Sampson (19:57):

What they understand is what they get. There's a philosophy we follow called, WIFM, what's in it for me? And WIFM is important because if you're not broadcasting at that frequency, you're not going to get the kind of response that you want. So grassroots work and connecting with people directly, building relationships is what it's about. Our Hood to Waters Program was, we took neighborhood leaders, we paid them to get in our canvasing van, which is available every morning because we don't canvas in the morning. And we took them to Bartram Gardens, to Cobbs Creek Environmental Center and to the Heinz Wildlife Refuge. These are marvelous, environmental opportunities, all run by the way, managed by people of color, in each case, all of them managed by people of color. They've lived in the city for 30 years and have never been there. There are people who believe these facilities are only for white people.

Jenny Vickers (20:52):

Wow.

Maurice Sampson (20:53):

So what we want to do is connect them with the resources that are available to them. And then what also happened, which I should have known would happen but I didn't think about, when we had these community leaders in the bus together, they hadn't met each other, they knew about each other. So what they loved about this, was the chance to network and we know how important that is. So guess what we've done? We've introduced them to resources that they can use. We've introduced them to each other and they blame us for that. So that makes us, as far as their concerned, we're one of them.

Jenny Vickers (21:26):

Yeah.

Maurice Sampson (21:26):

So we're going to do all whole lot more of that because all issues begin with building relationships, all issues begin. And once we have a relationship, the geography doesn't change, leaders don't change, just the issues change. So we're going to engage those leaders as full partners in all of our campaigns, for reasons that are important to them and they will tell us what those are. So I'm really, really proud of that and we have several other projects we're doing. We have a grant from the William Penn Foundation. We're not going to be talking about green storm water infrastructure. This grant is to actually identify the poorest communities, educate them on it, pick one, six by six block and build green storm water. They're going to pay for it.

Maurice Sampson (22:10):

How often do we actually get a chance where we're not just promoting it, we're actually going to do it. It's a very exciting project. And it's a most incredible team that we're on and that's only going to make our relationship that much deeper in those communities. So I'm really pleased with the directions we're going here in Philly and I'm hoping that when people in the organization want to move up, that they'll consider coming to work to Philly because there's the sharpest people that I could hire are already working for us. So, if they want to move up and move on, I'm encouraging them to consider moving to Philly. It's a great town.

Jenny Vickers (22:52):

Well, congratulations on that grant. I can't wait to hear more about it, we'll have to have you on a future podcast after you're done building the green infrastructure project. So you have been at Clean Water Action for many years, and you know that this year is our 50th birthday, so we are celebrating with some stories. It could be any story. What's your favorite memory or story? It could be funny, anything that you can think of, you want to share?

Maurice Sampson (23:20):

I've got two of them. I thought about this that I like. I think my favorite story is being at a canvas retreat at Apple Farms in New Jersey and being in front of the room with David Zwick, our founder, and the meeting turned into almost a revival session. As I pointed out to people, I had everybody identify, like how many of you have been here for more than 20 years and a bunch of hands went up. How many have been in for more than 10, actually it's the reverse of that. And it was really astounding to everybody in the room, how many of us have been here? And that's a cultural thing. That's what's unique about Clean Water, is how long we have been with this organization. I mean, we're not just an organization, we're a culture.

Maurice Sampson (24:07):

But that meeting just had an energy. I think it was Lynn that said, it was like a revival session. Because I asked people to commit, how many years are you willing to stay? Tell your managers that, they can plan around that if they know how many. And I don't know how many years we got to commit, but even people who have been there for 20 years, committed for another 5 and 10. But that was a wonderful moment and David, Zwick, our Founder, is somebody I got to know really well. In fact, I kept blaming him for my being in the organization, wondering, "Why didn't you let me know sooner?" And at one point he says, "I don't know. I guess I just effed up." And that was just a moment.

Maurice Sampson (24:50):

But probably the finest moment that we had in this organization, was I was sitting in a board meeting in 2014 and Vernice was there. I think that might have been her first year on the board. And David Baker Han, the three of us who were on the board and we had had an incident that year in one of our canvas sessions, where there was just some really upsetting things that happened to the people of color, who had come to that meeting from our office in Oakland. And the emotion and energy that happened during that session and I was at it, was intense and it was just so clear, we needed to address the issue of diversity in our organization.

Maurice Sampson (25:35):

And I watched as our board, as one board member talked about why the Spanish folks weren't involved, be challenged by another white member of the board as to why they should be involved in our issues. And I sat quietly with Vernice and with David and watched the white people on the board decide, we're going to become more diverse. And I remember commenting, I said, "You don't know what you're asking. Some people are going to have to leave." And they said, "Then they'll have to go." Now, this was 2014, this is long before the rest of this country jumped into this. This is not new for us. We have been working on diversity for a while. It's something that we feel is important as part of the culture of our organization. As I have talked to the other people of color in this group who have a lot of issues, I say, "You're right, we got a long way to go. If you want to know how far we've gone, join one of the other environmental organizations." Okay, all right?

Maurice Sampson (26:33):

We've got a lot of work to do. We're committed to it and I'm extremely proud of that and I'm really glad to be part of this organization for that reason. And I encourage those who are here, who are frustrated or concerned to express them. You're not going to get fired for bringing up your concern. And you need to know there are some who do have that concern, despite everything we've said, they do have that concern. We've got to fix this. We aren't going to cure the issue of racism in this country, if we don't talk about racism. And we're doing it and those are my two moments.

Jenny Vickers (27:09):

Well, that's incredible stories and thanks for sharing. And it's so important. It's so important and it's so important to share too. So thank you for that. We'd like to end our podcast with a call to action. I know there's a lot that's been happening your way, but what's exciting for Clean Water Action or you personally now, and for the future? How can people take action or get involved in environmental, environmental justice work, anything you want to have people do that are listening?

Maurice Sampson (27:41):

Well, the most important thing that we need to do, is to vote and we need to engage and encourage people to vote and get them to vote. Our democracy is in a very precarious place right now, and there are people fighting it and there are people who think maybe they need to give up on it. We only lose it if we give up. In fact, we only lose when we quit. In fact, winning is about perseverance, and that's a Clean Water story as well.

Maurice Sampson (28:06):

You can talk about it with others. We win because we persevere. I think the most important thing that all of us can do in addition to our work at Clean Water, get involved in voter registration, get involved in getting people to vote, particularly people in communities of color, because that's where the power lies, it's in the communities of color, voting in numbers and voting consistently and we will change the country. And everything else to me is second to that because with that, we can do everything else and without that, we can't do anything.

Jenny Vickers (28:42):

Yes, you are so right. You can visit our website, actually to learn more about our democracy work and for the People Act and all the democracy issues that we're fighting for right now at cleanwater.org. Thank you again, Maurice, for being here and your lifelong dedication to environmental protection and environmental justice. Is there anything else you want to add that you didn't mention yet, before we close out the show?

Maurice Sampson (29:05):

I can just say, it's time for those of us that have been around a while to mentor those who have been here. And I have learned that I need to offer advice less and be open for input. So please, don't let all the gray hair fool you, I may be old, but I've been around a little bit and I'd like you to make new mistakes. I've made a whole bunch of them, I don't want you to make the ones I made, so I can help. I see a lot. I've learned to hold my lip, but do ask. There's good advice and I'm not the only one in the organization. All of us, everyone leaves Clean Water, some stay 20 years before they do it, everyone leaves. We stay connected with each other even after we go and that's where the power is.

Jenny Vickers (29:57):

Thank you so much, Maurice. And thank you to all of our listeners for joining us to help lift up these important environmental justice leaders. To learn more about our work, visit cleanwater.org. If you'd like to support Clean Water Action, click on the donate button, as a nonprofit organization, your donations keep our engines running and allow us to continue to fight for healthier communities and a more just world for all. Be sure to subscribe, to Clean Water Action's podcasts, We All Live Downstream, available on Spotify, iTunes, Google Play, and all of your favorite podcasts streaming apps. Bye everyone.