The One in the Many
The purpose of the One in the Many podcast is to explore the process of integration as inspirational, energizing and corrective and apply it to human psychology.
The One in the Many
Exploring Masculine Power and Feminine Beauty with Ron Pisaturo
This episode is a conversation with Ron Pisaturo author of Masculine Power, Feminine Beauty The Volitional, Objective Basis for Heterosexuality in Romantic Love and Marriage
https://www.ronpisaturo.com/
Could the secret to a fulfilling romantic relationship lie within the age-old dynamics of masculinity and femininity? Ron Pisaturo joins us to offer a thought-provoking perspective, navigating the intricate dance between gender roles, societal expectations, and what it truly means to cherish a long-term partnership. With his book, "Masculine Power, Feminine Beauty," as our guide, we explore the volitional and objective bases for heterosexuality in romantic love and marriage, dissecting the very fabric of attraction and commitment that has woven itself through the history of human relationships.
As we trace the path from the initial spark to the deepening of spiritual connections, our conversation with Ron reveals the sanctity found in the interplay of masculine strength and feminine insight. We do not shy away from tackling current debates on gender and sexuality; rather, we seek to understand how these traditional roles can coexist and thrive within our modern society. This episode isn't just a passive listening experience; it's an invitation to engage with the nuanced layers of love, sensuality, and the art of touch that binds us to one another in the most profound ways.
Listeners are in for an enriching journey as Ron and I delve into the responsibilities entrusted to men and women throughout the ages, and how these roles manifest in today's rapidly evolving cultural landscape. We shed light on the challenges of setting boundaries, the sanctity of marriage, and the courage required to be vulnerable within the confines of a committed relationship. Join us for a compelling exploration of sex specific roles, cultural norms, and the unwavering power of intimate connection, all while navigating the delicate balance of maintaining personal identity amidst the collective wisdom of society.
Hi, this is One in the Many and you're listening to a conversation with Ron Pisaturo. To listeners of the podcast, ron Pisaturo is a familiar name and we've recorded a series of interviews with him on his book Validation of Knowledge, and today I'm very pleased and honored to have Ron back on the podcast and discuss another book of his by the title Masculine Power, feminine Beauty the Volitional Objective Basis for Heterosexuality in Romantic Love and Marriage, by Ron Pissoturo. Ron, thank you so much for joining me and looking forward to this discussion.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Arshak, for having me.
Speaker 1:Yes, indeed, it's so great so it's so great so I recently read your book, although your book has been out for a while now, but I haven't had a chance to get to it and it just tracked me.
Speaker 1:It was so clear, so precise in its formulation and understanding of what exactly it takes to be masculine, what is feminine, how to interact, and it's all based on facts of reality, of nature, and so I definitely wanted you to come on and talk about it, because this has so many applications, especially in today's world where you have a very distorted view of men and women and people do all kinds of things to their nature to change it for whatever reason they think, and it doesn't look good, it doesn't feel right and nobody really explains why. So everybody kind of quietly looks away without bothering explaining what really bothers them. But I think your book answers and helps people to understand why they're repulsed or why they're reluctant to engage in issues regarding transgender or homosexuality or anything of that nature, because they don't understand their own nature in the way of articulation that you bring in the book. So let me start you with asking you what motivated you to write this book in the first place.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks, arshak, the first place. Well thanks, arshak. So I'll go in the kind of direction that you started with that introduction. Back in 2013 or so you know, there was this big debate about same-sex marriage, same-sex marriage and I thought, no, this is not a good idea, and it was not because I thought that homosexuals should not. Well, I think homosexuals should have a right to do whatever they choose to do in their own lives, and it does make sense, let's say, for the government to allow us to recognize a certain kind of legal relationship between homosexuals, let's say, having to do with power of attorney and some things related to that. So there could be a certain kind of civil union, but we should not call that marriage.
Speaker 2:Marriage, in my judgment, is a sex-specific word, like mother and father, we have the word parent, but that doesn't mean we should not have mother and father and we focus more on the use, more of the mean. We should not have mother and father and we focus more on the use, more of the words mother and father, brother and sister, husband and wife, bride and groom. So you know, so many words are sex specific, because the sex matters, and so when I'm a man thinking about marriage. I want to think about a man being, you know, a romantic partner with a woman and the specific things having to do with that kind of relationship, and I don't want to have that understanding of mine and the evocative feelings of mine, I don't want to have those things clouded by having, in the same concept, some relationship between two men and two women, which you know is a very different kind of relationship, is a very different kind of relationship, and even homosexuals recognize this, because they insist on having separate words for gay and lesbian right. Why? Why do you need separate words? Because even they know that men and women are different and the relationship between a man and a woman is different from a relationship between two men or two women, and we need a concept to recognize that.
Speaker 2:So I wrote this and I received this barrage of uh you know invectives and disparagement and every all other words of that kind. Um, I was unfriended by people just for, you know, writing a simple blog post like this, and people I'd known for a long time. A person who, who, uh, forwarded my a link to my post was unfriended by like 60 people. I I was unfriended by a quarter of my Facebook friends just from this simple post and people were telling me, oh, you've got to, you're just ignorant about this. You've got to go study it, study, you know homosexual stuff. And I thought, okay, you know, so I did, you know, I thought I kind of have to do my due diligence and it just, you know, reinforced my. Actually, I just found things that were just so sorted in the movement as a movement as a movement.
Speaker 2:But now, getting to the heart of my answer to your question, what I came to see was there were not, or I did not encounter, any really good explanations of masculinity and femininity and why a relationship between a man and a woman is special, and I thought, well, I've got to write about this. You know, and I did, yes, and you know, arshak, I think there's a general lesson here. There's so much today attacks on things that are bad, and that's okay. Like you know, the transgender people are nuts, that this sexuality is nuts, the kind of sexuality that's going on now. But it's always more important to understand and explain the positive, and if there's anything good that could ever come from this LGBT craze I'll call it a craze is that it challenges heterosexuals to understand their heterosexuality better, and you know some people, when I say that, say, well, I know that already I'm a man, I love women or a woman, and I don't need any of that. And maybe you don't. I don't need any of that and maybe you don't.
Speaker 2:But what I'll say in general is you know, it's like understanding art. Someone can go to a museum and see this beautiful painting and say, oh, I love that. Or he can listen to a piece of music and say, I love that. He knows what he loves. But if he does some thinking and puts in some time to ask himself, why do I love that? What is it about that thing that I love? He may discover that his love becomes deeper Right yes, deeper right when you start to understand your feelings. What premises you hold that underlie those feelings. And then you say now I understand more deeply why I love womanhood, yeah, and why I love this woman, and sure enough, that can give you more joy in your love and make it makes it deeper, and by deeper you also mean that you are you use through enhancing your understanding and reaching your understanding of what are you perceiving and what are you interacting with.
Speaker 1:You are actually connecting on more levels with the person that you're interacting with, with the art that you're interacting. So the depth is the scope of the articulation of the experience, so to speak.
Speaker 2:Well, I suppose so. So let me get more specific about that. You know, a man could love the beauty of a woman, you know. But sometimes he might think well, that's just incidental. But I'm attracted to her beauty, but I love her personality and her character. That's not a bad thing. But what if you came to understand that a woman's beauty is in itself a reflection of her character and that it's part of womanhood to make yourself beautiful? Yes, it's part of womanhood to understand that you're the weaker sex. You just are. It's just a fact.
Speaker 2:You're physically weaker than a man and you need a man. You need a man to survive in this world, because the world has harsh physical obstacles in it. You know, there's bad weather. You need a shelter. It's not so easy for a woman to build a house. You need a, you need a shelter. It's not so easy for a woman to build a house right. You have to lift things, heavy things, you have to break things, reform things, and the man's body is much more suitable to that kind of endeavor. That's just one example. I mean it's. You know, there's a whole array of course. Example. I mean there's a whole array of course.
Speaker 2:And so you need a man. You also need a man to protect you from bad men. You need a good man, which means you need to judge men. You need to judge individual men, and where was I going with that train of thought? And then, part of what you bring to the deal, to the interaction, is your beauty. That's part of your responsibility as a woman, because your structure is more organized to be beautiful. You don't have these big bulging muscles, you have smoother skin, you have more delicate features, and part of what your metaphysical, fundamental function of the woman is to be a part of reality. That is not this harsh thing that the man has to work through all day to create a nice little environment in the house. Now he's given you that safe space and now part of your function is to make that little safe space beautiful and to be the most beautiful thing in it as a reward for, for the man. And and you want to you want to experience the man's power, power and reward it with your beauty.
Speaker 2:And so when a man understands that, that a woman has to work to make herself beautiful, she's got to take care of herself, right? She uses all these female, you know beauty products. She's got to be thoughtful about it. She's got to watch her diet, she's got to do these things.
Speaker 2:And then when you see a beautiful woman, you realize this is not just something that she was born with. She was born with the potential, but she's used that potential and that's an expression of her character. Her physical beauty is in itself an expression of that woman's character. And then when you see a beautiful woman, you can admire the beauty and the character that has brought that potentiality to fruition. To fruition, you know, and the beauty is not just the natural-born shape of the nose and the mouth, but it's also the grace with which the woman carries herself, her poise, her posture or placement, you know All of those things, the way she dresses. And so when a man understands that now, when he's attracted to that woman, it also enhances his attraction to her soul. You know role, and now the man will. I think that just translates into a deeper love, a deeper appreciation that she did part of her, she lived up to her part of the bargain.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's. You brought up already the two aspects of femininity that you are writing about, one being the beauty and the other one being the judging, the ability to judge the judgment is on the female. So she's going to be judging man on his masculine power. So I guess, why can't we go now into the masculine power and what exactly she's judging about that man? That makes actually man deeper understanding the woman. And then I guess, well, i've've read the book, so I should not say that. But what happens then?
Speaker 2:so when when the woman judges what happens to man yeah, so that's it, so that the the in my, in, in my judgment, right. Um, whereas the primary survival requirement of a man is to face the harsh world and make it submit to the man, you know he's. This is the world that's got a lot of harsh stuff in it. It's. There's not any anything that's just coddling a man. The natural nature of the world is, unless you happen to live right by the Nile River and maybe a few other places, maybe Southern California, you cannot survive one winter night without your mind. Now you may live in a house that someone else built and you're lucky that you can pay for that thing, but some man had to do that. Some man had to build a home that's heated or somehow protected from the elements so that you can survive even a single winter night. And that's not even to go into food and clothing and all the other requirements that a man has to do. And a man's got to use the combination of his mind and his body, his physical strength, his physical power, his masculine power, under the guidance of his reasoning mind. Right, he can't just be a brute. You don't build a house by being a brute. You've got to figure out how to do it right so that it won't collapse on you. So, and you've got to. You don't just hunt by it. You're not stronger than the animals you hunt usually right. So you've got to use your combination of brain and brawn. And that world is harsh and unforgiving. You make one mistake and you can die. Yep, you know, you know, um, and. And then you go to.
Speaker 2:You have, you meet a woman and the great, the great thing about a woman is it all works together. The woman cannot do those things. I mean they're. You know. There are these really strong, powerful women like I'm not saying that there's no woman in the world who's stronger than I am. There are plenty, but she's not built for that. For a man, one blow to the head, her bones are not. There are many women who are stronger than I am, but their facial bones are not stronger than my facial bones. You know, one blow in the wrong place and she's finished, and her body does not respond well to that kind of physical. You know she's not. You could just look at it. Look at any man versus any woman, you know, and they're just not. They're not built the same way. So, whether or not she might, some women might get by that way. It's not playing to her strength, right? She's much better off having a man do that stuff as well as protecting her from bad men.
Speaker 2:And so the most important job for a woman is to be the combination of to be a judge of men. She's got to judge that, you know. She's got to lay back there and say that one maybe, not that one, not that one, this one maybe. Let's see what he can do, let's see how he handles himself when I put him through some challenges, because my life depends on being a good judge of these men. If I go home or I'm in a private place with the wrong man, one time I could be dead, and every man should understand that. With the wrong man, one time I could be dead Right, and every man should understand that. Every man should understand that a woman's life depends on her being right every time in making those judgments, and he's got to be sensitive to that. It's part of his job to assure a woman that she is safe around him and that he will make her safe. That's a responsibility of a man. He's got to understand that, and a woman has surely understands it, because her life depends on it. So she's a judge. That's the the.
Speaker 2:And you know that could be daunting for a man, right, because you know you meet a woman who's a stern judge right, everybody smiles at this.
Speaker 2:You know she's your harshest judge and she should be. You know, right, she's a good woman, will hold you to the highest standard and you want that, you know you need that. And the other thing is the reward. You know you go through this harsh life doing all this stuff, right, and it's hard, and you get some recognition, but maybe not all that much. But then when you bring your character and your accomplishments and lay them at the feet of your woman, or express your power to your woman in romantic things or intimate matters, you're showing your power to her again in a rat. Your power, uh, managed by reason, and in this case it's not just an impersonal world that just doesn't care one way or the other. You get a response yes, you get that judgment that says well, well done, yes, right, I see what you have done in the world, you've done that to me, I approve done, I judge you well, and what greater reward is there than that?
Speaker 1:I agree and it's very powerful the way you wrote in the book about this and I hope people get a copy of the book and read it. I mean, the book has a lot of technical and scientific stuff about homosexuality and LGBT that I couldn't stomach. Kudos to you that you were able to write it.
Speaker 2:You know I don't want to have to go through. I did that once. It was not fun.
Speaker 1:I completely understand and sympathize with you. That's not fun. I completely understand. I sympathize with you.
Speaker 2:That's kind of like you know.
Speaker 1:But this time I did it.
Speaker 2:And so you know again, some people value that because they're so much into being, you know, unveiling or revealing the evil, evil behind things. And I'm not saying that's not important. I, I wrote it, so it is important, but it's not as important as understanding the positive. If everyone understood the positive, you wouldn't have, you wouldn't have to deal with all that stuff and um, you know, and this is not to say that every I'm not saying that every homosexual is bad. I'm saying the LGBT movement as a movement is very, very bad, much worse than I ever imagined. Yes, I now I'm going to go into it, but I'm not going to go into it If you want to know more.
Speaker 2:You can read the book, but let's not dwell on that. Let's just say again the silver lining of all that is it gives us an opportunity and actually a challenge to understand better why we are heterosexuals. Yes, and it's not reverting back to God, it's God's plan. I mean, many people think that and I'm not going to try to argue you out of that position, but I'm going to give you a real-world, objective reason, or body of reasons, about why it's so valuable to have a relationship between a man and a woman specifically and I haven't even gotten into the having of children, which is another great value, but just the romantic, one-to-one relationship between a man and a woman that there's nothing like it. There's no relationship that's equal, there's nothing even as good as that, there's nothing that is the equal of that.
Speaker 1:I agree and I take it very seriously and I was very pleased to read your understanding of it and understand it From my own perspective of the way I approach integration. I start from the family. The parents give life to a child, but then that child grows up, finds the love of his life and marries that person and starts their own family with their own children, right? So this romantic love that climaxes in marital contract between the two, that they give themselves to each other physiologically and spiritually, it's the second hallmark of integration, the first one being a parent-child relationship, especially the mother and the child. So I think it's immensely important as a human to understand these relations properly, but unfortunately they haven't been clarified the way you clarify this understanding. So that's why I find it so valuable and I'm so pleased that you were talking about it and first of all, wrote about it, and now you're talking about it.
Speaker 1:But one thing I wanted to bring out that you you're right in um, kind of in passing, you haven't really focused on this in terms of in the advanced society, because of technological advancements and all this stuff, physical power doesn't really carry that much in an advanced society, right, I can have robots do all the physical work right. So it comes to man's character and the rational mind of men and women and how they interact. So I think that part of um, I think the advancement in society is the part of the problem that leave people to believe that they're equal among each other, but they're not Right, um, and that's something that I think also needs to be addressed in a way.
Speaker 2:You know, arshak, I always have my guard up against blaming, blaming advanced society for problems, because I don't think it's a valid excuse. You know, there are lots of men, let's say, who are in great shape today. They don't have to be, but they go to the gym, right. Right, and in a certain way, our advanced society has made it easier for men to be in great shape. There's a lot more scientific knowledge about how to exercise so that you can look like a Greek god and be strong and flexible and live a long time, and there's a lot more known about nutrition, that whole thing. So men can be strong, if not stronger than they used to be. Now, not everyone chooses to do that, right, so you've got like a kind of a bifurcated society. You go out and you see there's a bunch of men who are in great shape and then there are a bunch of men who are or let's just use the word not. You know, but advanced society is no excuse for those men, and I think advanced society is no excuse for a man and a woman to forget that the man's strength and power is still essential and that the woman's judgment of men and her beauty are still essential, you know, and it may not.
Speaker 2:Reality may not rear its harsh head every second of every day the way it did when we were cavemen and cavewomen, but it rears its harsh head a heck of a lot. You still have to fix things that go wrong in your house, you still have to change the proverbial flat tire, but when there's an emergency and you're not prepared, then you realize what was I doing all that time? I had all this time to prepare and now, when a man is needed, I'm not. It's not good. This there's, there's a fight, your woman is attacked and you can't do anything about it. You know and you think well, what was I doing? You know, you've got to be prepared. This is, and this is why certain people are prepared, prepared right. People prepare for emergencies and hard times and they come up more than we might think. And when the man proves his manhood in that one time, that goes a long way. One time.
Speaker 1:That goes a long way. Yeah, it goes a long way to the relationship, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it it just makes a woman know the rest of the time that she's safe, Right, and you think that a woman doesn't think about that all the time If she's with a man who doesn't seem like he can protect her. You know so long. Next to her.
Speaker 1:What's that? He's not going to last for long next to her.
Speaker 2:So you know, and there are certain women who are very fit and very able to handle themselves and you probably know more such women than I do, Arshak, from your training in Aikido. But I'll tell you something that I've noticed is whenever I see women like that, I think wow, this woman is tough. And then I see their man right you gotta assume that they're tough.
Speaker 2:They're, like you know, at the, at the next level, to the point that the discrepancy is even greater you know, yes, yes, Because women who value being fit and capable physically, you know, in a man's world, are going to value a man who's like that in spades, yeah, so, and if those are her values for herself, it's consistent to have that value in the man, you know. Yeah, absolutely more physical prowess and maybe, in a certain way, less mental brilliance, although some people might want both, or a lot of more of both or less of both, and some people might be their values might be more intellectual or academic, but everyone needs an element of both, because we live in a physical world. There are always going to be physical dangers and challenges and opportunities.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And we also. Our abilities in that world as humans are some physical ability but a lot of mental ability. Right, we know how to use our physical ability in a highly leveraged way because of our mind, and so we've got to use our mind. But we need to have that physical ability also, you know, at the ready, because you know, even though we have a lot of leverage, we have to start with some baseline. You know of ability, so I'm just, you know, elaborating on the things we talked about there, so I would not fall back getting full circle to that.
Speaker 2:It's because of our advanced society. I think what an advanced society does is it provides even more opportunities to the active-minded and the ambitious and it gives an easy out to the people who want an easy out, because they can coast and kind of live off the achievements of others, right, and they can be kind of somewhat parasitical, but that might get them through the day a little bit. But it's not a good way. It's not going to give them the fulfilling life Instead of having the attitude of well, I don't have to do that because it's a modern culture and I don't have to worry about being strong and defending my family and my wife or all those things. Rather, the more rewarding attitude is to say I have all these additional options available to me because of the advanced culture available to me, because of the advanced culture. Let me use them and be even better at being a man than a caveman might have been Right.
Speaker 1:And you know, the benefit we get being in advanced society is that we make time passage much more personal, in a sense that to secure food is very easy today. You know, yeah, you may be engaged in an office work for eight hours a day, but then you have 16 hours to rest and do whatever you want a day, and everything is accessible. It's up to you what you want to do with this time. That's right. But the advancement has really saved you a lot of time. And if you don't appreciate how much time you have saved, or your ancestors have saved for you, and how lucky you are to to live in this advanced society, um, and you forget your nature, then it's um, not good. Um, you, you suffer from from that.
Speaker 1:And I I remember reading a book on survivalship. Uh, I don't remember the author's name, but he's a colonel in the British Special Forces and he was saying that the farther away people live, the more civilized people live, the farther away they live from basic skill of survival. In other words, the advancement also acts. The advancement society also acts as a screen mirror. It may dilute your perception and everything else. You may forget who you are, naturally, if you don't have that connection to the survival ship, to the survival skills and everything.
Speaker 1:So you're right, you have to use the time, build the right body, build the right skills, um, and and that is for the um attributes that you ascribe to the masculine power right, you, you used the word indomitable for the masculine man and it takes a lot to become that undefeatable. Right, you have to really develop very deep skill sets of whatever nature it is that you're pursuing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and let me say something now that maybe I should have said at the beginning, because I don't want to come across as you know, this person that's got it all together. I'm talking a pretty good game. That doesn't mean I am a success story. I can talk. I've learned to talk this way because I was not this way and I'm still working at being this way and I think I'm kind of at an early stage. I'm offering these words not by saying this is what I did so and look how successful I am. So you can do it too.
Speaker 2:I am somebody who did not understand any of this and observed it in men who are far more masculine than I am, and I'm just a novice. I'm working at this at this older age to try to get this way. So I would say to anyone who's listening don't follow my advice because you think I'm working at this at this older age to try to get this way. So I would say to anyone who's listening don't follow my advice because you think I'm a big success and you want to emulate me. Follow my advice if you think it makes sense. Right, had friends and men and women. Tell me yes, you have articulated what I've always done in my life. These are people who are very successful men and women in their relationships and in their manhood and their womanhood, and they, they tell me. You have put into words what I've always understood on an implicit level, and now I understand it better and appreciate it more, you know. So there's that testimony. But again, be your own judge. I'm not, like you know, the person who gives advice on nutrition and exercise and showing that I'm this big bodybuilder, who's who's done it. I'm speaking, I, I, I use that. I gave that example once before. Or shack of Charlie Lau is a.
Speaker 2:Is the hitting coach? Baseball, you know, hitter hitting coach. He was not a good hitter himself, but he was a catcher and he undoubtedly observed pitchers and hitters up close and somehow that helped him become a great hitting coach. I'm not saying that I'm a coach either, but I think I've just learned and discovered some things about this relationship between men and women by studying it, you know, and partly by recognizing that I've got to learn this.
Speaker 2:You know, it does not, it did not come naturally to me, it was not second nature, it was not the world I grew up in. I grew up in New York City and I lived in New York and California basically blue states where men were not masculine for the most part at all and women were not feminine, you know, and so maybe that's helped me see the contrast. Once I moved to a more civilized area and it jumped out at me, you know, I said, oh my gosh, these are men, these men are men. You know what was I? So I just wanted to go into that a little bit, not to come across as this know-it-all or even as a success story. I'm speaking as somebody who needed to learn these things, and once you learn them, it doesn't mean you've put them into practice either.
Speaker 1:Right and I'm trying my best to put it into practice either right, but and I'm trying my best to put it into practice I would say, irregardless of um, you know how you feel about yourself and and and how do you evaluate yourself as to what station of life you're in, or so forth. But I think the value is that, exactly as some of your friends indicated and as I felt and my wife felt, is that you are able, your understanding for yourself, but you have articulated the relationship to its full understanding. And I think because I come from about 30-year-old relationship and I would bet that most long relationships that they still love, that they still holding of hands and care for each other understand what you're writing about. So you don't have to have experience to have one, but to be able to articulate it. I think that's tremendous and now, as you started at the beginning, it deepens my understanding why my relationship is so strong and beautiful and makes sense for both of us, because we embody these things right.
Speaker 1:And it becomes even more valuable when you understand it more, and I know for many people that I know that have long-term relationship, they will hear or read about this and they'll feel the exact same way, because there's no other way. This is the way, this is it. It's just that we haven't been able to articulate it the way you did it. It's so beautiful, it's so powerful, so that's why I'm so excited about it and I'm happy that you're doing it. So I mean, having segued a little bit into this, you have some very interesting I think new at least me um stages being you introduce in terms of um sensual, um relationship that turns into romantic love, um. So do you want to talk about this a little bit, or you want to let people read about it?
Speaker 2:I can talk about that. That's another interesting thing, that just thinking you know something I wish I knew when I was a lot younger, and the certain kind of things that you read in books. And I remember thinking myself when I was younger I've got to find this stuff out for myself. And I've thinking myself when I was younger, I've got to find this stuff out for myself and I've got to experiment, which meant having intimate relationships that were not grounded in a spiritual connection or in love, let's put it that way, and it turned out to be very, very harmful to my spirit. I'm not sure how to get into it, so I'll just start blurting and then maybe make it's much more organized than the book. Right, absolutely. And you know I'm always a big advocate for reading as opposed to speaking. Even though I wrote the book, I cannot speak this stuff as well as I wrote it, and when you write it you're very careful and systematic. And now I'm, you know, just blurting whatever comes out, what crosses my mind.
Speaker 1:First, you also have me as a distraction. What's that? You also have me as a distraction, taking you from one place to another. So that's another one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's all right. But just as a little teaser, I can get more physical pleasure from a woman touching my arm today than I could have gotten from an orgasm as a young man.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I'll just put it bluntly that way as an introduction. Bluntly that way as an introduction. I think that part of the reason that many men, especially young men, are so obsessed with erotic feelings you know, sex drive and wanting to have sex right away is because they are so cut off from their feelings that the erotic feelings are the only ones strong enough to get through yeah so it, and you know they, they say many people say, you know, the men want to always want to have sex and the women are more, oh, they want to be in love and this and that, and I don't know from my experience that's not true.
Speaker 2:It's true in the sense that that's how many men are, but I don't think that's the way they're built, because as I've gotten older and I don't think it's just because my sex drive has waned, let's's say it's that you come to realize. You know, women understand, many women have a better understanding this than men. They're not as cut off from their feelings and so they can get the whole bouquet of these sensual feelings that are not just erotic feelings and the underpinning of the more basic feelings is actually better and it just, you know, the erotic feelings are kind of like the icing on the cake. You know, and I'm not even talking about the mental, you know, there's something that I think is a very important thing to understand. I don't say that we have this intellectual connection and then we have a physical connection. That's not how it works, it's combined.
Speaker 2:That's not how it works. It's combined. A healthy physical connection is a response to the whole package, as is a healthy mental connection when you become integrated.
Speaker 2:You become attracted to the woman because of her combination of mind and body, and how does that relate to what I'm saying now? There's the same way. The different levels of physical contact need to be integrated. If you just have this erotic stimulation, not only is it not somehow proper or traditional or religiously okay, it's not fulfilling, it's just not religiously okay, it's not fulfilling, it's just not so. The first one I write about is just you know the way you would want to touch anything to protect it and take care of it, and you know that level of touch. I actually don't even remember how, how I did.
Speaker 1:I have four categories loving touch, sensual touch and sexual erotic touch yeah, okay, so three.
Speaker 2:That's why I was thinking I couldn't think of the fourth. Yeah, so the first there's a. There's a loving touch, right, it's just when you touch something that you love, you, you know or are touched by that. It's just this communication that I love this thing, right, you know. And then there's and when you have that connection with someone where you've exchanged that kind of touch for over a serious period of time, you know this is not something you can do in a one night stand.
Speaker 2:You've got to know the person to have that loving touch you have in order to love her. You've got to know her Right, and that takes time. You've got to know the other person's values, how they've acted over a course of time, not only what they say their values are, but what they demonstrate their values are right. And so when you come to love a person, then you want to touch the person with this loving caress. Then you want to touch the person with this loving caress, and once you have that kind of connection over a period of time, then there's a sensual touch that you feel the pleasure of touching. There's a kind of pleasure that when you touch something that feels beautiful to the touch and to a man, a woman's softer body that's receiving your power is beautiful and a woman's body is softer.
Speaker 2:I don't want to even go into the technical reasons to clinicalize it, not make it clinical. She just is a nice thing to touch for a man. She just is a nice thing to touch for a man, you know, and I presume that a man's body is a nice thing for a woman to touch, it's a pleasurable thing. But if you try to do that with someone you don't love, you'll get some pleasure, but it's not anywhere near the pleasure that you get when you get that physical pleasure touching someone you love. So there's an order, there's a progression to these things and even at that level, even the first level, to touch someone you love that way is so much more literally pleasurable I'm not even talking about spirit, I just literally pleasurable so much more pleasurable than having sex with somebody that you just think you know is pretty or whatever word that people use these days. I don't want to go into that kind of talking because I don't think it's healthy even to talk that way. Right.
Speaker 2:I don't want to go into that kind of talking, because I don't think it's healthy even to talk that way. So am I answering your question? Yes, yeah. So then there's the sensual. Then when you've got those going for you, then when you add the erotic feelings on top of that, then it's you know, it's unequaled. But if you try to do it any other way, you're just reversing cause and effect and you're going to be unhappy and unfulfilled.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It's not going to be satisfying. It's like you know, people jump to that because, again I think, they don't have the other feelings, they don't know what they're like, and so they take they grab at what they can get, this quick thing, and they just have no idea of what they're missing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually, I explicitly remember the time when I noticed the woman that became my wife, and it took a long time before I was able to get to a stage where I can touch her, but I feel explicitly how it felt touching her for the first time. So this resonates with me in that sense that that is the fulfilling part for me. Everything else is gravy, it's a development, it's an evolution, but that first contact that you make with the thing that you love, with the person that you love, um, that's the special moment, that's the the the deal maker yeah, and it's because it's an expression of your love.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the way you move your, your hand or whatever part of your body to come into contact with the other person and to maintain that contact is an expression of what you think and feel about that person yeah, and you have to have that deep communication what's that?
Speaker 1:and you have to have communicating what, what say I'm sorry I was going to say that and you have to have the response to the touch right.
Speaker 2:It's yes, right yeah, it's, it's a form of communicating, it's a form of communing right, of of being in contact and experiencing the other person's soul. And that's what you do. When you do the touch, you say oh yeah, I can tell what she thinks of me and feels of me by the way she's touching me yes yes and vice versa, and the way she's holding me and whatever she might be saying at the same time or what he might be saying, and you've got to, you've got to.
Speaker 2:You know, if you want to be fulfilled, you've got to experience that yeah and and then when you add the other layers, that base layer is always there. Oh, I'm, I'm having this sensual, joyful, I mean I'm feeling this just physical pleasure of the different parts of her body that are pleasurable to touch. And I'm doing that with this soul that I love and I've communicated that in my other touch, soul that I love because I and I've communicated that in my other touch, you know. So I mean to try to, to want to, to try to bypass that, to sidestep that, for an erotic feeling is just, you know, it's, it's maybe misinformed, because men don't know any better, because they haven't experienced the other thing. They're so, as I said, closed off and armored against that that they don't even know what that is. Yeah, and so they grasp at anything they can get, and the only thing they can get is the erotic.
Speaker 2:Or they may not have that estimation of themselves. The man might not have that high estimation of himself or the woman. He doesn't want to be touched that way because he doesn't think he deserves that kind of touch. Touch that way because he doesn't think he deserves that kind of touch. He might think it's revealing, you know, who he is, which is maybe not someone he likes. Because when you're in that situation, you are revealing yourself very much. You're showing what you love and that's just such a revealing thing to show the things you love. And when you touch someone in a loving way, you're revealing your love.
Speaker 2:You're revealing the style of your love, exactly yes, the way you know right, and that's very personal, yes, and could be frightening, right, because what if that's rejected? This is who you are.
Speaker 1:This is your unique soul yeah, that's what I see as a deal maker that first touch, yeah, right, um, but, but, yeah and and so, but in this interaction, this is what makes so penetrating your um. And let me quote it from the book, because you read it so beautifully. And that is you write on page 21,. The essence of masculinity is rational, decisive, indomitable leadership. The essence of femininity is the passion to judge individual men and to find one man that leads up to the woman's highest standards. And so you know, the guy is going to be strong, but his touch may not be strong. It may be confident, but not strong, right? So all of this will be judged by the woman. And the man knows that he's going to be judged, yeah, and he has to have some kind of reverential kind of attitude, yeah, towards that first moment, if he's really serious about his love, if he's serious about himself so.
Speaker 2:So the touch has to be strong. A man needs to display and express his strength, and he's got to know how to do that in a way that somehow expresses this strength is here to protect you, right, not to hurt. I'm going to show you my strength, but I'm going to show it to you in such a way that you're going to see, you have nothing to fear from this strength. The rest of the world has to fear from this strength, right, you are the thing that's going to be protected by this strength. That's what a man's touch has to convey. That's that's what a man's touch has to convey. And I see, I saw something like that in a, in a dance performance the other, uh, a few months ago, with this very powerful man was doing a dance style. I think they call it cabaret dance. It's kind of it's a kind of ballroom style, that's kind of acrobatic or athletic, I should say.
Speaker 2:Say in that there are many lifts where the man will lift the woman actually over his head and kind of toss her around a bit. And there was this powerful man who was able to, you know, but the way he was with that woman, in the way he lifted her and set her down so gently, her, and set her down so gently. You know that you got the clear impression that he was expressing that when I'm carrying this woman, she is in the safest hands in the world. I'm not going to drop her. I'm going to take, and wherever I put her, I'm going to do so gently, along with the power that I'm doing things. I'm going to lift her up and when I set her down, I'm going to set her down so that it would not crush a flower when she lands. You know, and it was beautiful because of that, that combination of power and care for the woman, you know, yeah and makes her graceful in that sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, her graceful in that sense, yeah and man gets a huge pleasure from seeing woman graceful yeah, because she's free.
Speaker 2:You're right, because now she's freed up, she doesn't have to worry about gravity right or the or landing in the wrong way. The man's got it handled. She can just, you know right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do her thing yeah so you know, and that's why, in dance, for instance, the man leads. Oh yeah, right, it's not an accident. He always leads because and ayn rand said that masculinity is, um, the essence of it is decisiveness. I did not come up with that myself, um, I don't even know where she said it or wrote it, but, um, someone told me that she said that might have been in private conversation, I don't, I don't know, um, and that's why in dance, the man leads and the woman, she does not just follow right and right, she judges and follows. All right, that's a good lead. I will go along with that because it's a good lead, you know, and she's just, or she may go along with, maybe kind of has to, but she's judging all the time.
Speaker 2:This man is a good dancer because he is leading well and the man's lead is very subtle. I don't know if you know, in dance he doesn't push her around when he leads to make her fall. A dance is one that is as subtle as can be, while conveying what he wants the woman with certainty to do. Right, he wants the woman to go there, move here, there. No question that this is what he wants. Yes, but he signals it and he shows he can put her there if he has to. But he's showing her what to do and then invites her to do it. And that's why they say a man in dance has a strong frame.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because he doesn't push her to go to the right or the left. He just moves his frame a little bit and she's holding his frame a little bit and she's holding his frame so she knows where he's going and then she goes with him yeah, I mean so?
Speaker 1:that's why the colloquial folk, um reference to it, takes two to tango. It's so popular because, um, because it's a very complicated communication, understanding and realization of something. But the end of the day, although the man is leading, the woman is the one that shines. That's right and it's his responsibility. He showcases the woman Right, it's his responsibility to make her shine as bright as she can.
Speaker 2:That's right. The man wears black and white and the woman wears very decorative, colorful costumes. Right.
Speaker 1:Right see it when, when people, um, especially the you know the new reach, when, when people newly get rich, they uh, often buy all the you know luxurious things for their wives to make sure that you know they shine and they show how successful he has become. So that's one of the first things rich men do. I guess they want to showcase their prowess, so to speak. That's how they see it, but obviously there are many ways of doing this.
Speaker 1:But I wanted to ask you something else. On page 23, you write once the romantic partners realize that the depth of the relationship reaches a certain threshold, then the partners realize that the relationship must be permanent. And I don't know if we have enough context for you to comment on this based on our conversation, because it's very well developed in the book, but I wanted to, if you will talk a little more about that, what exactly the threshold entails. I mean, we are obviously talking a little bit about this but also what really solidifies that connection, what gives rise to the permanence?
Speaker 2:You know, arshak, I don't know, I don't have an exact boundary about when a man and a woman should decide to get married and I don't have an exact boundary as to when they, you know, should be intimate. You know, again in in my life, in decadent blue states like new york and california, when I think back I think, oh, what's, I had no, I thought I was like one of the mild people oh in it.
Speaker 2:you know in you know I mean just people around me that there was so much promiscuity like now later in life. I think it's hard to believe, you know, and I know there are parts of the world and times in human life that were even far worse. But I think back. You know this was supposed to be a civilized time and people would just sleep with each other, not even on a first date. Before the first date. It was crazy in retrospect, crazy. I always thought I was the goody-goody guy because I had a little bit of restraint. And you know, the women that I had relationships with so early in a relationship I just thought was not healthy On the surface at least, seem to be okay with that now that they came out came out of it, okay. I did not come out of it, okay.
Speaker 2:I'll just I'm confessing to the world. I don't know how many of you are listening. It left me with scars that I I have never gotten over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know have never gotten over. Yeah, you know, I know so. But so precautionary tale to anybody who's young and wants to experiment sexually be careful. Yeah, and I don't mean that you're gonna get a disease although that too but I just mean the harm, the long-term harm it can do to your psyche and your experiences. I mean this is why rape is so terrible. Right, because those memories of those things might never go away. You know certain kind of trauma when you put yourself in a situation where you have intimate relations with someone you don't love. It makes you, it gives you memories and habits that you don't want to have yeah you know it makes you withdraw, become desensitized to things and not so easy to undo.
Speaker 2:You know these are things that get pretty ingrained. So, um, just this is my, my word of caution, if anyone from the younger generation is is listening, you know, um, I I agree with you that there must be a caution.
Speaker 1:Uh to that, and and I know how dark it can get because I grew up in a very promiscuous communist society. Communist, you said yes, all communist societies are very promiscuous. End of their life. As a society they become even more so. I think there is a connection to. I haven't done my homework on this, but I would suspect that your attitude towards sex and relationship between man and woman and what a man can do or a woman can do with his or her sexuality, is a sign of a demise or glory.
Speaker 1:So it is a very important subject that can become very dark and grim and devastating, as you know, people commit suicide out of it, they die yeah, uh.
Speaker 2:So anyway, to finish my answer to your question yeah is, um. So so what I was getting at is, back in those days, for me to think that people are waiting till marriage before they're intimate. I mean, that's, that's crazy. Why would you wait so long? You know, um, it's plenty okay to be intimate before that stage, and now that I've lived around people who don't have any intimacy until they're married, I don't know where the right line is. I don't, I'm, I'm leaning. I lean these days and and I've committed to that because I'm not married and I've committed to not to have intimate relations until I am, and that's the choice I've made.
Speaker 2:I'm open to be convinced otherwise, but it's not something that I am willing to say is definitely the right answer or the right answer for everybody, Right, Right, I think it probably is, but I don't know enough to to to say so. So that's the answer to your question in the in the form of I don't know where the, where the, where the exact right boundary is.
Speaker 1:I'll take it where the exact right boundary is.
Speaker 1:I'll take it, but that permanence, whenever it happens, leads actually to marriage, and marriage is a very special status. Yeah, now you say you're not married, but you know more about marriage than any married man or woman out there, and you you articulate it very well too. Um, all right, so that permanence, um that comes through um stages of you know. I mean, you have the three stages right, that you work up to have that first loving touch. Then you develop this dance-like understanding of leading and following, or blending, integrating together into a sensual touch and that climaxes into an erotic intercourse.
Speaker 1:You know, full integration, body and mind, as nature predisposes the two parties engaging in this integration.
Speaker 1:So, and that leads to the marriage part, right, and you have some very clear understanding on the marriage and you're a defender of the concept of marriage, in contrast to today's societies using the word incorrectly in something that you offer different words to be used for unions and so forth, uh, words to be used for unions and so forth, um, so, so I think, um, once you understand the importance of the masculine power and the feminine beauty, you begin to think about or ask questions about the union of this, to what it would be like and could be there any other way of people to interact on that level. I mean, could men and men do it, or woman and woman do it, or it could be only men and woman do it? So it opens up a lot of questions and you answer them all and you come up with even more than that. So we can definitely devote an episode just on marriage. Okay, but just to wrap up, what would you want to say in conclusion for this episode?
Speaker 2:all the things I talked about today, r Shack, are about a kind of relationship that is strictly between a man and a woman. I was talking so much about the attributes of a man, the attributes of a woman and the role that a man and a woman play, and I don't mean play in a game, I mean, you know, in reality, and of course that's not the way two men can interact, and we do need a concept that captures all of these attributes that I've talked about for the last hour and 15 minutes or whatever, and marriage does that. I will say one more thing about we talked about it in advanced cultures and not advanced. So the kinds of interaction between men and women in the Western civilization are somewhat, I think, distinctive. You know you'll hear people who argue for other things or against this masculinity and femininity will say well, these attributes of men and women are not necessarily the way men and women have to be and it's not the way men and women have been in other cultures. And they'll point to and they'll also say in Western civilization, a lot or much of these attributes and roles that men and women play and they might say it is more of a game or a ritual has been dictated and habituated by cultural norms. Right, the man is the powerful one and he dresses a certain way understated and black and white, whereas the woman is dressed in certain way understated and black and white. Whereas the woman is dressed in, you know, these colors or white, she's the one who stands out All the things that men and women do differently from each other in our culture. And they say these things as if to say this is not the way it really is, this is the way we have made people behave, and my response to that is this is the right way, this is a good way, this is some.
Speaker 2:There are cultural norms in Western civilization, especially since the Enlightenment, that teach boys and girls and young men and young women to act in these kinds of ways for the man to be strong and a provider and a protector, and a woman to be more beautiful and delicate, even, you know, in her relationship with a man and the way she dresses, and this and that. And yes, there are these cultural norms that I would say they are good cultural norms. They are our culture's way of recognizing these attributes in men and women and reinforcing them and helping young people to understand that this is a healthy and life affirming way to be. So hats off to western civilization that the men wear the masculine looking clothes and the women wear feminine looking clothes, and the women have all these creams and hair products and whatever to make the lipstick and makeup to make them beautiful, and the men don't do that, at least not until you know they shouldn't do that.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so the cultural norms are great because they've arisen out of the wisdom of Western civilization and understanding men and women, and we benefit from that guidance. Non-binary, somehow, some kind of mixture of manliness and woman-ness is foolish. You're fighting against your nature instead of taking rational cues from an advanced, wise civilization. That's showing you a smart way. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, well said.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:Ron, thank you so much. This has been great. I'm looking forward to our next episode recording on the issue of marriage or expand on that. And you also beautifully write about volition and emotion, and I would encourage anybody who listens to this to get a copy of your book Masculine Power, Feminine Beauty the Volitional Objective, objective base for heterosexuality, romantic love and marriage by ron pisatura. I'll have a link in the show notes. Um, and everybody should be interested in this. This is this is not as um um technical as validation of knowledge that we went over right. This should be easy reading for anybody who is interested in being a man or a woman and understand themselves a bit deeper and better.
Speaker 2:But it's not as breezy as some of these other books about like men are from Mars and women are from Venus. You know Right, right, I mean it's serious writing, but it from venus. You know, right, I mean it's serious writing, but it's not serious yeah, it's, it's um it's accessible, it's um it's it's not academic and another thing since we don't have a time limit, I can.
Speaker 2:I can add one more thing that occurred to me. I I don't claim, as other, as many other writers claim, that men in their minds have to be this way, like men have this mind of wanting to have sex or wanting to be direct, and women have these other uh, you know, psychological characteristics, right? No, men and women have certain physical characteristics and it's in their interest to develop intellectual, mental, psychological habits that are consistent with their physical nature yeah, yeah, I agree, thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Until next time I'll see you, the one in many, discussing the rest of your book on masculine power and feminine beauty. Thank you, ron, thank you for your time, thank you for your wisdom.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Arshak.
Speaker 1:Have a great one.
Speaker 2:You too.
