Busting the Myths of Control and Pride in Addiction Recovery

As hosts, Matt and Sam, we take you into the heart of family interventions and the gritty journey towards addiction recovery. Ever wondered how the relentless grip of addiction affects not just the individual but the entire family? We draw from personal experiences, shedding light on interventions where pride and ego serve as stumbling blocks on the road to recovery.

In an honest discussion, we explore the complexities of pride, control, and the illusion of handling it all when in the throes of addiction. We share moments from our own lives when our self-worth stood at odds with the humility needed to accept help. With a candid look back at our past careers in the tough industry of logging, we discuss the pressure to succeed and the toll it can take on an individual and their family.

Wrapping it up, we share insights on the challenges faced during interventions and the paramount role honesty plays in recovery. As we reveal, it's easy to lose sight of the issue amidst the noise created by active alcoholics and addicts. But here's the catch - sometimes, letting go of control proves to be the most effective approach in dealing with addiction. Listen in as we learn together that in this challenging journey of recovery, your story might just find echoes in ours.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Life too short. Man, you don't want to hold no grudge. Man, you thought maybe you gonna let little bygones be bygone. Man, I couldn't believe that son of a bitch had the balls to say that.

Speaker 2: 0:13

Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by professional interventionists Matt Brown and Sam Davis. This is a podcast for families or individuals with loved ones who are struggling with addiction or alcoholism and are reluctant to get the help that they need. We hope to educate and entertain you while removing the fear from the conversation. Stay with us and we'll get you through it. Please welcome the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.

Speaker 3: 0:48

All right, Sam, we're back at it. You're getting your medicine in before we get started here, that's right man, I gotta do my daily. Make sure you don't spin out mid podcast, yeah man, I'll tell you I'm loving Lion's Mane.

Speaker 1: 1:03

Yeah, yeah, that's what it is Lion Mane Extract and it's. You take a dropper of it. I do it a couple times a day and it really has helped with some clarity and just a little more focus, and it's not mind-altering by any sense, but it's good I like it.

Speaker 3: 1:19

I like it Right on. Well, as long as it wasn't like you were dropping acid here with me on the screen, I'm okay, let's roll with it.

Speaker 1: 1:26

No, we'll see man. Look, today's my sobriety, date.

Speaker 3: 1:29

Oh yes, I totally forgot about that man.

Speaker 1: 1:32

Happy birthday. Thanks, dude, thanks. And you know, I've always heard it if you drop acid on your sobriety anniversary, it's not really a relapse. That's what I heard.

Speaker 3: 1:41

Yeah, I think you heard wrong. Well, how are things back? East man Man's hot.

Speaker 1: 1:49

Yeah, it's hot but busy. Hot but busy. How are things over there on the West Coast Same?

Speaker 3: 1:55

same. It was in the 90s. It was in the 90s today. I had an intervention today that it was interesting, man, the whole family was in recovery, like double-digit recovery, and they had this one person in the family system that had been trying for years to get sober.

Speaker 3: 2:15

And you think that, like, going into this, you expect that there's a family system that's hey, they're in recovery, there's a certain degree of health and wellness that has been established there, and you kind of pull back that curtain and get into a family system and all of that stuff is still there, all those buttons are available to be pushed, all that childhood stuff is still there, the stuff that just sometimes doesn't go away until we confront it head-on.

Speaker 3: 2:45

And to see that kind of play out in the intervention today, this gentleman, good man, you can see the sincerity of like I don't want to live this way anymore. But there was also this you know what, if I say yes today, if I greet us today, you guys win and I lose. And, man, I am not going to let you win, no matter what the cost today I'm not going to let you win. And, man, my heart goes out to him because I remember being in that spot, but the heartache and the pain that he's setting himself up for all over again. It's heartbreaking, man. It's heartbreaking to have to come away knowing that the whole family system is still struggling tonight.

Speaker 1: 3:34

Yeah, that's always uncomfortable when you have to leave a situation like that. I love when we're doing interventions and we get that relief in the air after they say, yes, you know you can feel the weight lift in the room. And when you don't get that, when they're kind of dig their heels in.

Speaker 3: 3:54

It's part of the process though, like we were talking about this earlier in the week like everybody's got their journey and the more you try to control the journey, the less they get to own it and the less it's their journey. And you know we can be there to try to provide some guidance and hopefully create a different outcome. You know that's what we're there to do, but ultimately it's their journey and we can't rob them of the experience that they've chosen to have.

Speaker 1: 4:22

Exactly Rob them of the experience. You know I did one this week too and went down south. You know I had to go several states over and did one and this person didn't accept help and the family was prepared for that. But their family was pleased because they were able to convey to her what they felt like they needed to and there was some open dialogue through the process, like about a five hour intervention. But at the end the person just said, look, I'm not ready and I respect this shit out of that Like thanks for your honesty. You know, if you're not ready, don't blame everyone else, because they weren't, and I admired that it wasn't blaming anyone else and the family. It's like, hey, I'm not ready.

Speaker 3: 5:02

That's the most honest thing somebody can say. Like all of this other stuff, you know I can't leave my job. I've got a relationship and if I leave this relationship we're not going to stay together. You know, I've got to water my neighbor's plans on Tuesday and I can't be irresponsible into that commitment. Like, all of that is just noise. It really is not to take away from the importance of a job or a relationship, but the most honest thing somebody could ever say in an intervention is I'm not going because I don't want to quit or I'm not ready to quit.

Speaker 1: 5:32

Yeah, man, we're really talented as active alcoholics and addicts to Keep people distracted with noise. I mean, we can spew some noise, and if families will get all wrapped up in the noise?

Speaker 3: 5:47

Yeah, we were talking about it after the intervention was over. Today. I was talking with the family that stayed there and we just kind of Did just a little bit of a breakdown like okay, here's what we're gonna do to continue the effort. Like we're not done, we're gonna, we're gonna continue to move forward. We're just, you know, switching gears a little bit, but to really kind of point out to them like, did you guys see what happened here?

Speaker 3: 6:11

Like he came in, he blamed everybody in the family. I Want an apology. I want you guys to humble yourselves and tell me how sorry you are because you did this. And over here you did this and and of course you'd be the way that I am if, if you had family like I did and of course everybody Immediately started to react to that and I had to. You know, just kind of tap the brakes and say, guys, you know, this is what's going on here. He's stirring the pot so that he could look around and say, see, I was right, I'm dealing with a bunch of crazy people here. I'm dealing with a bunch of abusers who aren't willing to be humble and apologize and make amends. And you know, here, here, these people are supposed to be in recovery and they're not making the amends that they're supposed to Meanwhile tonight. You know he's very likely intoxicated and and To see that dynamic play out, I mean there was some relief on their part to be able to look back and and say, okay, you know what.

Speaker 3: 7:10

We said some things today in a way that we weren't able to say before and there's room for for change here. There's room for for the outcome to be different than it was today. For sure, but Until he chooses this for himself, like I told him in the intervention and like I'd love right now to just pick you up over my shoulder, carry you to the car, throw you in the trunk and head to the airport and and he kind of laughed at that and he's like, well, you probably could. I said that doesn't matter. Like the point of I'm trying to make here is, until you make this choice, you you're gonna stay resentful. Because here's what happens if I throw you in the trunk and I take you off to treatment, you go to treatment with a resentment that the treatment center has now got to clean up and you're, you have no ownership in being there. You know you got to own this one way or the other, you got to own it.

Speaker 1: 8:04

Yeah, and you say there was a lot of them in recovery that were part of the intervention.

Speaker 3: 8:08

Yeah, yeah, they were in recovery and and I think it was a good experience for them to be able to kind of go back and say you know what, Get it. I remember that as much as I want to try to control this today, you know I didn't. I didn't get it until I was ready.

Speaker 1: 8:23

Yeah, yeah, you know, man, I've done some interventions where we've had Members of the family that were in recovery and going into it. I'm relieved to hear that, thinking that, oh man, they're gonna get it. This is gonna be great when they're really close family members and there's some some history and You're in recovery and when you're seeing. This is what I found, based on my own experience, because I had an experience of intervening on a loved one that was very close to me and you know, I was in recovery during the intervention. I wasn't the interventionist because it was a family member and I was Interventionist because it was a family member and I had an interventionist come in.

Speaker 1: 9:03

And I was the worst participant of any. You know, I've been sober for a while, I know how to do interventions, I know about the spiritual path and all of that, yada, yada, yada. But when we got into the intervention room where it went down, I was the worst participant of any intervention I'd ever been a part of. A because I had the emotional attachment to the situation and b, what I was witnessing Reminded me of me. It didn't have anything to do with with them. You know, if there were anyone else in any other intervention it wouldn't even batter than I.

Speaker 1: 9:40

Yeah, but in this individual I was seeing a version of me Years ago and it made me very uncomfortable. And I come, I got combatted, not physically, but I got. I wanted to fight that, not again, not physically. And I think and I've had that experience with other interventions with family members that were in recovery that when going into it you think, man, great, I got an ally. I got some people on my, on my corner here in the family. They're in recovery and they get it. But Sometimes we don't know what they're feeling on the inside when they're seeing that that addicted loved one right near them it's some, you know Reminds them, of them, it's very uncomfortable, very uncomfortable.

Speaker 3: 10:21

Well, and and you know, that kind of brings us to what we were thinking about, talking about today, and and that is how, how pride and and ego and and even shame can get in the way of somebody making a healthy choice, and the way we allow that to become a barrier, and and the price tag that sometimes we attach to our pride 14 years ago, you know, almost let my pride send me to prison.

Speaker 1: 10:54

You know my family was sitting around just flabbergasted that I was sitting there debating Whether I was gonna go to prison or go to treatment. You know, to them was just a no-brainer, and to any normal person it's a no-brainer. But where I was coming from was a couple of areas I was looking at. You know what are my options here? How can I maneuver out of this? And really down below that was pride. Like I didn't want them to feel like that. They beat me. They beat me Like. To me it was like a battle, like a contest, like a battle of the wits, battle of the pride. How long can I outsmart? How long can I outmaneuver? How talented and gifted I am in the world of deception? And that pride almost sent me to prison.

Speaker 3: 11:36

Yeah, yeah, it sure will, and that's just the least of it. I mean, sometimes it sends people to their grave. You know we want to hang on to this idea that somehow we are in control and that nobody is going to wrestle that away from us. And the harder we cling to that belief that somehow we are in control, the more dangerous it gets, because we're hanging on to an idea that's just not true. And families do the same thing. You know this whole idea of well. I can't allow them to experience the negative consequences of their choices because something bad could happen. And if I can control the consequences, then maybe somewhere along the line they'll make the change that they need to. And the families still operate under the same delusional belief that somehow I can control this. Still, I can control what happens next and the whole process. Whether you're on the codependency side or on the addiction side, you know we're all operating under that belief that I still have control.

Speaker 1: 12:48

I'll find some families and then have to pull them back a little bit because during the rehearsal, before the intervention, they're saying, all right, now, what about after treatment?

Speaker 1: 12:57

And sometimes in their letters they've got the plan laid out for them. After treatment I said wait a minute, we're not going that far, we're just trying to control his journey. Like if my family would have gone in with that mindset when I went to Texas, I wouldn't be sitting here today, I wouldn't be in the career I had. My family said let him have his experience, let him be on his journey, and they didn't make plans for me after treatment. You know, the universe had to carry me the way it wanted me to go and they didn't get in the way of that. I just had one a couple of weeks ago where they were talking about they'll support him when he gets out of treatment and this and that and the other, and I'm like well, wait a minute, you know that's you're trying to control his journey here. He's a grown man. If he thinks that the plan is laid out for him and he's not going to do any work himself, this is a sink or swim moment.

Speaker 3: 13:49

I get that from families all the time, Whether it's you know, like you're saying, let's you know, it's 30 days enough, is 90 days enough, what happens next? And you know they want to see the whole picture. And even that is about I'm uncomfortable. I need something to help me feel comfortable right now. So I need more details, I need more information, and the reality is it's just not available yet. We don't know that part of the story yet. We have a pretty good idea, but even giving them that kind of information sets them up for an expectation that may not happen.

Speaker 1: 14:21

Man. I think the reason I'm so comfortable in an intervention and the reason I love them so much is it keeps me in the present moment Because by nature we always think in the future and you know families with addicted loved ones, they can get in the future quite a bit for your driven future. And it's really about keeping them in the present moment, keeping them right now, because you don't know what'll happen. You know you have no idea. You're making plans for three months down the road man, a damn spaceship could fall on the treatment center the second day he's in there and wipe them all, like then what you know. So stay in the moment here as much as you can, because that fear is a big liar. Fear and fantasy, it's just a big liar sets you up.

Speaker 3: 15:06

The other thing I see families doing a lot is like what you're saying, like if you do this, then this is what the future will look like, and it's one thing to say. This is what I hope my relationship with you can become. I hope we can get closer. I hope we can have experiences that this addiction has robbed us both of going forward. I hope that we can develop something that's kind and loving and you know it's the word I'm looking for kind, just something that we don't have today. But to say I'll take care of your house payment, I'll take care of your car payment, I'll do all this stuff.

Speaker 3: 15:46

They're not even asking for that in a moment. You know it's like okay if they bring it up during the intervention. Okay, well, if you decide to go to treatment, are you going to need help with that? Do you want to talk about that? What that might look like? What do you think needs to happen while you're in treatment? Allow them to feel that responsibility instead of just hey, here's how we're going to make this problem go away for you. And sometimes the answer is like man, I don't know, I don't know how to deal with this, like I can't think about that right now. And the reality is hey, man, that's okay. Are you open to some suggestions? Sounds like you're leaning towards the direction of maybe going to treatment. Could I offer a suggestion and maybe you can talk about your family with this and allow them to own that moment, even if we're there to help them through it. But instead of saying, hey, this is how it's going to happen, let them feel the weight of that responsibility for a minute.

Speaker 1: 16:42

Yeah, just last week you know this one I was talking about one of the letters that I think it was one of the aunts or aunts depends on where you are in the country said you know, want to see you get married, want to see you have children. And I went outside with the person mid intervention for them to have a cigarette and I was sitting at your office chatting with them. They're like absolutely who the hell are they to tell me they won't see me get married and have kids? I'm okay with them wanting something, but I have absolutely no interest at all in getting married and I don't want to have children. That's not my journey, that's not where I am.

Speaker 1: 17:21

And sometimes when you hear families I think when you hear families, when this is during the rehearsal, where the rough draft of the letters, you know where they're saying and if you accept the help being offered, this is what I can look forward to and what I look forward to in our future and saying they're setting some hard boundaries. But then they want to soften the blow by almost a it's almost apologetic by saying I'm going to do this but I'm going to give everything all back to you once you're done. You know it's like it sues them. It has nothing to do with helping their loved one. It's really soothing them. It's softening the blow of having to set those heavy boundaries.

Speaker 3: 17:57

A lot of families have a hard time with that and I'd really try to steer people away from you know.

Speaker 3: 18:03

Don't offer, you know, these grandiose expectations of what you're going to do for them, or or you know, this is how I'm going to show up for you and this relationship and make it all better. You know, to create hope Like that doesn't really create a genuine sense of hope. But to be able to say to somebody man, I look forward to the day where I can really trust what you're telling me again, I look forward to the day where we can spend time together and I don't have to ask myself you know, when's it coming? When's the other shoe going to fall? When is it going to ask for something? When is he going to?

Speaker 3: 18:34

You know, start to manipulate me or deceive me into you know what's the agenda here, for I can just put all that aside and just know that I am with you right now and I'm dealing with the person that I love and I'm being treated the same way. Like that's where real hope gets created is in those little moments where that connection can happen. It's not like I'm going to make your problems go away. That's not what creates real hope, nor self-esteem Right.

Speaker 1: 19:02

You know I can tell that I'd say just about every single one whose family had made plans for them during the intervention for what would happen afterwards or had, you know, laid out some plans at the rehearsal what they thought their plan should be, of individuals that went to treatment and got well, if they would have followed their plan they'd have been sold very, very short. They would have stifled their loved one because of what ended up happening. And this is with every single case where a family has done that on the front end and then their loved one goes and gets well and embarks on a completely different journey. That journey that the universe put them on versus the one that the family wanted them on, is a much better path, much more abundance, much more joy, much more experience and value to life and to other people. So don't hold them back. Trust the universe, trust the process, trust it.

Speaker 3: 20:09

Yeah, it's one thing to tell somebody, hey, you know what you know. You and I both work with people who sometimes are employed by family businesses because nobody else will give them a job, and you know. It's one thing to tell somebody like, hey, when you're done with treatment, you know you can come back to work here. It's another thing to tell somebody hey, it's, you can, you're welcome to come back and work here until you figure out what your your, your path is going to be, your journey is going to be If that's something that you want, you know. But to really let them know, like the freedom that's involved can start right away. It can start from the moment that they make that decision, like, wow, look at how many opportunities just opened up for me because I made this choice. They may not recognize it on the day that we're taking them to treatment, but you and I both know that like they've just opened a ton of doors for themselves.

Speaker 1: 21:02

Yeah, I think the best thing for me was there was nothing when I went, nothing when I went to treatment, they had sold all my equipment. It was all gone. There was nothing, and it was in our mindset for a couple of decades that this is a family business and that's what they thought was going to be doing and that's what they perceived it out there, or that's what they thought that I was supposed to be doing. But that wasn't what I was supposed to be doing, and the only way that I got to do what I'm supposed to be doing is they got the hell out of the way. They got the hell out of the way and let me figure it out. So going into treatment I mean, this being your birthday, it's a good opportunity to maybe explore this question with you as you went into treatment 14 years ago.

Speaker 3: 21:45

Right, yep, today, if the idea of what your future would have looked like whether it was logging or whether it was something else what would your plan have been for yourself 14 years ago, today, even as a sober man? Like going to treatment, going, hey, you know what, if I do this whole sobriety thing, this is what life might look like. What picture did you have in your head?

Speaker 1: 22:11

I was going back home and always said and bragged and I was like I always said and bragged and you know, ye olde, pride comes up, you know, all through treatment, because I was in Texas and from Virginia and halfway between Texas and Virginia is Mississippi, and always laughed and scoffed and said that my halfway house is going to be a motel six halfway between Texas and Mississippi. On my break, headed back home, you know, and you know I was looking, I was still getting my industry magazine sent to treatment and I was looking at those and I was, you know, lying in bed reminiscing and wishing and dreaming and just figured I was going to go back home and go back to the woods, go back home, go back to what I knew. And man, god had a completely different plan, completely different plan, a better plan that I could have ever, ever drawn up, ever.

Speaker 3: 23:03

I'm just trying to now imagine what a magazine from the timber industry reads like. Is it just a bunch of ads for chainsaws and crosscut saws and all that stuff?

Speaker 1: 23:15

Man, it's called Southern Login Times and it's got articles of. Usually it's by.

Speaker 1: 23:19

The articles are for loggers that have gone and spent about a half a million dollars in some piece of equipment and they'll put them in the magazine. And an old timer, an old, old sawdust head, his name was Ray Martin, I mean, he was an old dinosaur and he was a wise, wise old man. He said man, there's two times when someone is in Southern Login Times. He said it's when they buy the equipment, and then at the end and it's in front of the magazine when they buy the equipment and they do an article on them and at the end of the magazine when they got it all on the auction block because they gone broke with it.

Speaker 1: 23:55

He isn't too far from the truth on that one.

Speaker 3: 23:58

Yeah, is it just kind of a feast or famine industry?

Speaker 1: 24:02

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You handle a lot of money.

Speaker 3: 24:06

You handle a lot you know you don't, just you don't get to hang on to much of it, huh.

Speaker 1: 24:11

The ones that make the money are the ones that are selling you the insurance, the ones that are selling you the equipment, the ones that are selling you everything to like there's. At the end of the week, there's a whole lot of people that don't get dirty, that have their hands out. Yeah, my dad always said it's an industry where you can still be. You could still be stupid and be in. You know that's and that's not. I'm not ragging on any loggers because I was with my whole family were loggers. But yeah, yeah, that's what he thought about it.

Speaker 3: 24:41

Well, I grew up in a farm town where you know a lot of cotton farming, a lot of alfalfa farming, dairy farming and these guys I mean you get paid basically once a year. You know, at the end of the season, once you sell your crop, and up until then you're accumulating debt, whether it's equipment or you know whatever you got to do to grow the crop, and then you sell it off and what's left over after you pay that debt off for the years, that's it, and sometimes there wasn't a whole lot of meat left on the bone. So yeah, I remember a lot of the guys that I came up with lived that way, where, boy, life was good for a few months after the crop sold and then things got tough again.

Speaker 1: 25:19

Yeah, yeah, wintertime was really tough for loggers, and even summertime, because wintertime you have the weather to deal with and in summertime you have the dust and the quotas, because all the meals get full, because there's no mud and everybody's able to rock and roll, and so it's a tough business, man, it's really a tough business. But you know, there's one thing that I regret. It says we should not regret the past, nor should shut the door on it. But I do have a regret.

Speaker 1: 25:45

I wish that I would have given it 100% in those woods, in that business, because, as much as I loved it and that I was good at it, I was so entitled and I was so selfish and so inconsiderate in my behaviors and I was so immature and I was so irresponsible. I thought, just because I walked into the company, that I was owed respect and I didn't put myself in a position to earn the respect of my crew. There were times and periods in my career that I had the respect of the crew, but there, towards the end, there was absolutely no respect at all and I didn't really deserve the respect of the crew nor the people in the industry. And I thoroughly enjoyed working in the woods. I mean, it's a place where you can be a couple miles off the road, away from anyone and everyone, and just kind of be in your own zone and be in your own world. And although you're cutting the trees down, you are in the forest and now that's pretty cool.

Speaker 3: 26:52

But I wish I'd have done a lot of things differently, showed up a lot differently than what I did, but even that today, those things that we wish would have turned out differently or better than they did, those are valuable experiences to be able to bring in to somebody.

Speaker 3: 27:11

Because, even though I've got plenty of those, to be able to talk to this man today and say you know what? The details of your story and my story may be very, very different, but we both know what it's like to be sad and scared and angry and lonely and frustrated and insecure. And how we got to those feelings doesn't matter, but those feelings got so much control over us that it drove us to do things that, yeah, we look back and, man, I wish I'd have done things differently. But to be able to look somebody in the eye and say you know what, I know exactly where you're going through. I may not have the same details that brought me there, but I know what those feelings are and I can see them all over you and just know that just because you spent 20 or 30 or 40 years with this belief in your head, it doesn't mean that it's true and it doesn't mean you have to hang on to it.

Speaker 1: 28:09

Yeah, to actually release a belief is really quite simple. It's really quite easy Once you acknowledge that that belief isn't so. But the links that we go to to hang on to a belief that is mistaken, yet swear that it is true it's put a lot of people in the grave, it's put a lot of gray hair on people and it's driven apart a lot of families just mistaken beliefs, swearing it to be so.

Speaker 3: 28:37

I like to do a lot in the outdoors and I'll get on YouTube and I'll go down that rabbit hole of the bushcrafting and outdoor kind of stuff. And I was watching the other day a video on trapping animal trapping and then these guys you ever watch Meat Eater. Yeah, I love that guy and just the way he kind of tell that story and he was talking about the different kinds of traps. And there's a trap that all it does is get the animal by its paw, whether it's a raccoon or something like that. There'll be something down in that trap and they'll reach in, they'll grab ahold of it and they won't let go. And that handle stays stuck in that trap because the design of that trap is based around that belief.

Speaker 3: 29:24

I'm gonna hang on to this and I'm not gonna let go, even if it's to my peril. And it's not just human beings, it's animals, it's primal, like there's this thing that I'm just not gonna let go of, no matter what happens to me. And I think that sometimes, as human beings, we'll do that to ourselves, with our beliefs and with the things that just get so ingrained in us, like I can't let go of this, because if I do, then who am I?

Speaker 1: 29:54

And there's so many things out here like that trap for human beings to trap you with that belief system that you got, or to trap you using your belief system.

Speaker 3: 30:04

Yeah, and to reinforce that belief, like, hey, you know what, you are right. Like it's funny. Like we talk a lot about social media on the podcast but, depending on what you do on your phone, it informs what happens with you on social media. Like I was teasing my wife the other day I can't even remember what we were talking about, but somehow chewing tobacco came up and I'm like, yeah, you got to go buy yourself a can of chewing tobacco, that'd look real attractive, you walking around with a big dip in your mouth, and I searched for a picture on my phone of a woman with a dip in her mouth just to be funny and snarky with her. The next thing I know I'm scrolling on Facebook and there's ads for smokeless tobacco on my Facebook feed. Like, the stuff we do on our phones informs that algorithm and that reinforces those beliefs sometimes. But if you start searching for things, it'll reinforce that. You'll get things on your social media feed that'll reinforce those beliefs. And so, yeah, there's traps out there all over the place to keep us stuck.

Speaker 1: 31:14

Yeah, yeah, and social media is a very dangerous, dangerous tool. It's a double-edged sword. Yeah, very good for getting information. And yet it's very good for getting information, yeah, Well, this has been good.

Speaker 3: 31:33

Yeah, man, I appreciate this. We kind of sometimes come on here with an idea like, okay, well, let's talk about this. And where we got to certainly wasn't where I expected this conversation was going to go, but I'm glad we got there and I'm glad we had this talk, and I hope that those that are listening can benefit from it tonight.

Speaker 1: 31:50

Yeah, yeah. Thanks for riding along with us and hearing us out and just listening to two men ramble on about recovery and other things.

Speaker 3: 31:59

To that point like we've been doing this now for about a year and a half and this is grown, like we have people that actually listen to what we're saying, and I can't tell you guys how grateful I am that you have stuck with us for this last year and a half and that somehow what we say has value for you. And so thank you, thank you for being there, thank you for being loyal listeners, and we hope that our messages continue to have a positive impact.

Speaker 1: 32:27

Yeah, and I can't tell you how grateful I am either for the following that we have and everybody that. It just blows me away that people take time out to listen to our podcast. You know that we had something to say, evidently, yeah, but I commit to y'all and all the audience that we're going to have some good guests coming up on here, so you just don't have to listen to Matt and I run our mouths all the time.

Speaker 3: 32:50

So before yeah, I'm excited. We've got some people in waiting in the wings that are going to come on that I think are going to have a way better message than we've had up into this point, or at least enhance the message in a much better way than what we've been able to provide so far. We're going to have a lot more guests on and and yeah, I'm excited for it yeah, yeah, matt, you have a good day, buddy.

Speaker 2: 33:14

Thanks again for listening to the party records. If you liked what you heard, please leave us a rating and a review. This helps us get the word out to more people, to learn more or to ask us a question we can answer in a future episode. Please visit us at party recordscom and remember don't enable addiction ever. On behalf of the party records, matt Brown and Sam Davis. Let's talk again soon.