Resilience in the Face of Addiction: Samantha Cohen's Triumph

Can you imagine your life spiraling out of control due to addiction and pulling through to the other side? Samantha Cohen, our guest from The Arbor, lived that reality and is here to share her raw and deeply personal journey from addiction to recovery. Her unfiltered story is one of transformation, an honest look at the pain and struggle she faced, and the strength she found in the battle.

Samantha’s tale doesn't shy away from the reality of her addiction, her experiences are shared unapologetically, and she opens up about the family dynamics that played a significant role in her struggle. Her family’s lack of boundaries and their subsequent investment in her recovery formed a significant part of her journey. Samantha’s candid admissions about the influence of her ego on her sobriety and the allure of forbidden substances make for a gripping narrative. She shares how the Arbor's uniquely structured, family-owned, and gender-specific treatment approach played a considerable role in her recovery.

This episode is not just about Samantha's journey, it’s a wider exploration of recovery during challenging times, specifically, the COVID-19 pandemic. Samantha reveals how she has used her experience to assist in the treatment of other chronic relapses. She shares the therapeutic benefits of the Arbor's family program and its experiential therapies, such as equine therapy. Samantha's incredible story offers a beacon of hope for those battling addiction and their loved ones. Her insights and experiences are a testament to the human spirit’s resilience, and her willingness to share her journey is a true act of courage.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

If you don't mind, I will begin at the beginning.

Speaker 2: 0:04

Life too short, man, you don't want to hold no grudge, man you thought, man you're gonna let little bygones be bygone. Man, I couldn't believe that son of a bitch had the balls to say that.

Speaker 1: 0:17

Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by professional interventionists Matt Brown and Sam Davis. This is a podcast for families or individuals with loved ones who are struggling with addiction or alcoholism and are reluctant to get the help that they need. We hope to educate and entertain you while removing the fear from the conversation. Stay with us and we'll get you through it. Please welcome the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.

Speaker 3: 0:53

All right. After a couple of weeks of doing a few interventions and completely slacking off, sam and I are back. Sam, welcome, welcome. It's good to see your face on my screen again. How are you?

Speaker 2: 1:03

I'm good man, you know. Lexi has reminded me several times that she heard, when we went up to see a treatment program and met with this trauma therapist, that addicted individuals don't really have a concept of time, and that includes those of us in recovery. So I just wanted to remind you, sir, it's been longer than two weeks, it's been probably close to a month since we put something together.

Speaker 3: 1:26

So yeah, well, I'll admit to having lacking a little bit of concept of time on that. Absolutely, I feel better when I tell myself it's only been two weeks.

Speaker 2: 1:36

Yeah, yeah, I think it's been like a month. Okay put a podcast together and that's unfortunate.

Speaker 3: 1:43

Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Well, it's good to be back today. I think we've got an amazing guest today. It's been a long time coming for her to be with us. Before we jump into this, though, I want to make sure that we remind everybody about our upcoming intervention training in Virginia. We were originally going to be doing this in Maryland. We changed venues to Virginia, just outside of Richmond. What's the name of the town that we're going to be in? Sam Chester, chester, chester, virginia, coming up at the end of this month. If you're curious and interested about registering for the intervention training with Sam and myself, please visit interventiononcallcom and you'll find a link on there to register for the intervention training.

Speaker 2: 2:20

Yeah, we'd love to have you Love, to have you be a part of it.

Speaker 3: 2:23

Now we've got another intervention training coming up and in December down in Texas and it's going to be at the Arbor and our guest today is the admissions director for the Arbor, sam Cohen. It's going to get a little confusing, so during the intervention we'll call her Samantha and of course Sam will. Well, he'll be Sam, sam, samantha. How you doing?

Speaker 4: 2:44

I'm doing good. I'm excited to be here. Thank you for asking me to come.

Speaker 3: 2:48

We're glad to have you here. So let's start kind of at the beginning. How did you, being a woman in recovery, how did where did your story start? How did it kind of lead you to the path that you're on now? Start wherever you want in the timeline there.

Speaker 4: 3:07

Well, you know, I've been asked to tell my story many times and it's interesting, as the years go on, how your perception really changes. And the more separation I get, I think, the more clarity that I get around what my active addiction did look like. Because I got sober really young. I was one of those that went to treatment multiple times and the family, my family was absolutely exhausted and they were tired of admissions reps, they were tired of treatment centers, they were tired of family programs, they were tired of intervention, they were tired of all of it and they really didn't think and I didn't think that I could actually get it and I thought that anyone that had any significant period of time was full of shit.

Speaker 3: 3:57

Excuse my French, but oh, you're good, we speak French here.

Speaker 4: 4:00

Good, good, good. I thought they were completely full of it and you know, I was pretty hopeless by the time. I actually got sober and stayed sober, and so I can really start just like with a little bit of information about my family. My mom is one of us. She's an addict and alcoholic. My brother's one of us. He's an addict and alcoholic.

Speaker 3: 4:22

Where did you grow up?

Speaker 4: 4:24

I actually grew up in San Antonio, but my dad is a 300-pound Jewish man from the Bronx and my mom's a little Christian woman from Texas. So very, two different, very different viewpoints on life and how to raise children and how to interact with the world. But I grew up in San Antonio. My dad is a professional chef and he got a job in San Antonio and we moved down here and I had two brothers, an older brother and a younger brother, and growing up, addiction and alcoholism was not abnormal and I didn't identify it as addiction and alcoholism at all, I just identified it.

Speaker 4: 5:06

As you know, you drink every day. That's what we do, you know. And my mom passing out and learning how to drive when I'm nine years old eight years old, because she couldn't or whatever was not abnormal. Like people were like oh my God, I'm so sorry you were raised that way and I'm like I had a great time, like I didn't think it was that bad until it got that bad, you know. And I had a fun childhood, like I had a good time. My mom was my best friend, you know. She bought me everything I ever wanted and we had fun. And the first time I ever put a substance in my body. I was nine years old and it was with my brother, and heroin showed up for me in the form of marijuana at nine. What does that mean?

Speaker 3: 5:53

heroin showed up in the form of marijuana.

Speaker 4: 5:55

for people who may not understand that statement, it means like I had fun for a period of time and my downfall, my big downfall, which I believe I would have hit that downfall anyway was when I started using heroin, when I started using opiates, and it went from fun to bad real quick. But I was able to hold it together. When I was using marijuana, when I was drinking alcohol or when I was using cocaine, I was able to like present like I was doing okay. So that's what it means for me.

Speaker 3: 6:29

So how long was it From the time that you started smoking pot until the time you tried heroin for the first time?

Speaker 4: 6:35

I actually used. I used IV heroin when I was 14 years old. It was the first time I ever used IV heroin. I was very young and now I'm grateful for that. I'm very grateful that I started very young Because I got sober really young.

Speaker 2: 6:49

Yeah, how old were you when you sobered up?

Speaker 4: 6:51

I was 20 years old when I got sober and I went to treatment 11 times before I got sober. I started my treatment experience at 16. My mom actually had an intervention. My family had an intervention on my mom when I was 15 and I remember when that intervention was over I walked downstairs and there's the interventionist and the whole family with all these letters and I was not looped into this, of course, because I was not a healthy individual. And when the intervention was successful, my mom hugged me and she said you're next. And I thought that was just very shocking, but now I think it's funny because it was very true.

Speaker 3: 7:31

Well, when you walk downstairs, was there any thought that that might have been for you at the time?

Speaker 4: 7:36

Oh, a hundred percent. I was like oh boy, here we go. And then they were like Jamie, we're so glad. And I was like whoa, thank God.

Speaker 2: 7:43

Dodge that bullet. Yeah yeah, I bet you were like, yeah, man, that's one of a bitch needs intervention. I'm glad y'all are here he's. Hey, he was. I wasn't doing so well.

Speaker 3: 7:57

Yeah, yeah, mom's pretty bad off. I'm glad you guys are here to help her.

Speaker 4: 8:02

Exactly, exactly. It was interesting. It was the first time I was ever introduced to recovery because, like I said, like Alcoholism and addiction was normal for me, like it wasn't. I didn't, I didn't identify it as that and when she went to treatment it was so odd because I was. You know, like I said, I think I was 14 or 15, my little brother was like nine and my older brother was a Like 19 or something like that, and it was around Christmas and you know, she missed all the holidays which no one cared in our family, that she missed all the. That's a big thing for people not to go To treatment. I'm gonna miss Christmas, I'm gonna miss New Year's. Well, we're all glad you're gonna miss it anyway, you know, because it was never. She wasn't herself, you know, and when she came back it was like they talk about in the, in the traditions, like Attraction, not promotion, and that was the first time I ever experienced like a happy version of my mother. So it's crazy.

Speaker 2: 9:03

Yeah, now, when you were, when she was being intervened on and she went off the treatment, you were Ivy heroin user by that time, correct? And so when you would go out and do what you did while she was off getting well, was there a part of you that, it's sort of like, ruined your buzz? Like you had this looming feeling that Like you're headed down that road.

Speaker 4: 9:27

You know, that's an interesting question because my brother, my older brother, is one of those that, like he, became an alcoholic, an addict over time.

Speaker 4: 9:33

I was one of those that was born that way and so we went to. I didn't really have a thought in my mind when she first went, and when she first went I was like, okay, she's gonna go, I'm staying here, because I didn't understand, like, what getting well was or I thought like maybe she's gonna go learn how to drink successfully or something. But when I went to family program and we left family program, I remember my brother and I having two very different perspectives. My brother was like I need to quit using drugs and I was like what? Like that's what you got out of that? Like I was baffled by the idea that he even wanted to quit, and so If I look back on my story, that was a very identifying like factor of like him and I were very different at that point. So I didn't, I didn't cross my mind to stop or slow down or quit or anything like that when she went.

Speaker 3: 10:29

Well, let's, let's back up, and if I'm crossing the line by asking this question, samantha, let me know. But yeah, like most nine-year-old girls, don't start drinking and smoking weed Because life's going well, yeah you know, you had you had alluded to the fact that you had learned how to drive at nine, because your mom was unable to, and so you'd have to drive the car, like yeah what was it about At nine years old, as you started to, I would assume, to drink and use on a regular basis?

Speaker 3: 10:57

like, what was it about that? That, as a nine-year-old little girl who was probably what? Third, fourth grade? Yeah, like what, what was it about that that made your life? More tolerable than then what it was as a normal, you know, or what would have been a normal nine-year-old, that's a yeah. So I remember the, like my brother's, five years older than me.

Speaker 4: 11:17

So he always had like, we always had parties, we had people over the house like, because my, my mom didn't care and my dad was at work, and so my whole life, like, we were the house to be, we were the party house, we were the and it's my brother was, you know, that person in middle school and high school or everyone, wanted to be friends with them because you can go to the house and you can drink and you can smoke and you can do whatever you want. You're gonna get away with it. And I remember the first time I ever got introduced to to marijuana, my brother was poking holes in a diet Dr Pepper can and I was like what are you doing? He was like nothing, don't pay attention to what I'm doing. I was like no, what are you doing?

Speaker 4: 11:56

I was so curious and he was like I'm just smoking weed. It's a plant comes from the earth. And there was no fear, like I was not. I was not afraid. I was like let me try it, you know. And it was that quick because I wanted to fit in, I wanted to be cool, I wanted to Be friends with my brother's friends, I wanted to be liked and I just wanted to be the cool kid, and so that was the first time I ever used substances, and it was also the beginning of a lot of abuse to a lot of abuse, and that was a scary, scary part of my life.

Speaker 3: 12:37

But yeah, so you went to treatment at 16, I was like I'm not gonna do this again. So you went to treatment at 16 and then went to treatment many times before you were 20. Why do you think that those early treatment experiences didn't work for you?

Speaker 4: 12:56

The honest truth is that my family had zero boundaries. Zero boundaries, I could always work.

Speaker 3: 13:03

My mom Could always work my mom even though she was in recovery at this point.

Speaker 4: 13:08

She was in recovery for about a year and a half and then she relapsed. So my mom, you know she was not, and even when she was in recovery, I mean she felt so guilty about everything that she gave me everything that I wanted, you know, whenever I asked, and her guilt kept me high for a long time. But I don't think it worked. A because I was. I wasn't truly like ready in the sense of like. I wasn't mature enough to even make a healthy decision and be. My family had no boundaries, so I got to do whatever I want and I really ran that relationship.

Speaker 3: 13:52

And so, what was different about the last treatment experience that you had? What was different about you? What was different about the treatment program or the experience that you had? Why did this one work?

Speaker 4: 14:03

So I went through the arbor Eight years ago, almost nine years ago, and that was the first place that I ever truly had an experience at they. They walked me through all 12 steps. They held me accountable. I couldn't sleep all day. I did like I did therapy.

Speaker 4: 14:24

Yes, I did therapy, but really you can't really get down to Really intense trauma and her child work in 90 days. That takes years. You can scratch the surface, you can really begin to understand that, but I don't think I really did any, true, like identifying my behaviors and how I participate in relationships, and so I was like three or four years sober, but they held me accountable and I couldn't get away with all the crap that I'd normally got away with in treatment centers. And I got through all 12 steps and like I had an experience. And then I went to extended care and I went to sober living and I did the whole shebang and I remember after extended care I relapsed because I called my family and I was like I'm not doing the arbor sober living. They're too strict, they're too much, I can't do this anymore, they're too expensive, you know, and they co-signed it and let me go to a Flop house sober living, and I was high within Three weeks.

Speaker 2: 15:27

Yeah, too expensive, of course, you know I mean, since you had so much financial input into the situation, right Like heroin's cheap three minutes ago she was saying I could ask for anything and I'd get it. Yeah, the old man y'all. I just you know I don't need. This is too expensive. I don't want to put this financial burden on y'all by any means.

Speaker 3: 15:47

How many times have we heard that?

Speaker 4: 15:51

We've all used it. My favorite was like my last treatment center, my last experience. I told my grandma you can't pay for this anymore. I'm not gonna let you pay for this. And she said, sam, when I show up to your funeral, you don't get to tell me how much money I spent to save your life. And I was like, wow, okay, grandma.

Speaker 3: 16:09

So let me let me back up just a second, sam, because I think the three of us know you working in admissions and Sam and I doing the Intervention work that we do that it takes a crisis usually for the family to pick up the phone and say, okay, it's, we got to do something, even though your family had done it ten times previous. What was that crisis for you? When, when your family finally said on the 11th time, like, okay, we got to do something different this time.

Speaker 4: 16:35

So I was done once again. I called my family. I asked for help again and they said no, they were like Sam, we told you this was the last time we were gonna do this and we meant it and I love you and figure it out. And I was homeless on the streets of California and my mom had never let me be homeless before. She never let me be homeless. She always sent me money. I'm hungry. She said that's cool, there's food at the treatment center. If you wanna go there, you can call me and you can eat there. And they stuck to their boundaries. And I had to call my grandma and beg for help.

Speaker 4: 17:15

And I remember I remember not knowing if this was gonna work, not believing if it was gonna work, but I laid on that detox floor sick and I asked God to kill me or help me, but pick one. And I made a decision that I was gonna take suggestions, regardless of how I felt about it. And that was the decision and that was my third step, decision that I made. I truly believe that was my third step. I did one, two and three on that detox floor and when I started this treatment experience again, instead of being like the asshole, stubborn little shit that no clinician ever wanted to work with, because that's who I was.

Speaker 4: 17:53

I fought the girl in a great bull's group. I slept with the dude behind the cafeteria. I was that client. I was the worst and I made a decision to take the suggestions. And so when they said, sam, we want you to be in sober living for a year, I said fuck you okay, sam, when this happens, you need to call your sponsor. And I said fuck you okay. And that was my mentality for a long time and even to this day, when I get in that spot and I call someone and they give me a suggestion, I take it, and I think that is the thing that has continued to keep me sober, is that?

Speaker 2: 18:29

And it's not like you're clicking your heels going to do this work even today, like you're speaking of. It's not like you'll get some direction from people that you've given spiritual consent to hold you accountable and they give you suggestions. You're like, oh man, yeah, that was great, I think I will do that. It's like, ah, fuck man, I don't want to do this, Like it's the last thing I want to do. And I think a lot of newcomers are people that just kind of veer off is that they experience that too and they don't do it. And they seem to think that we just take suggestions with bells on and I don't I can't speak for anybody else, but I don't, like I got some direction from my sponsor yesterday and I'm like, man, I don't want to do that, like I'll do it, but I don't really freaking want to do that Exactly.

Speaker 4: 19:16

No.

Speaker 2: 19:16

I went to a meeting today. I went to a meeting today at 11 o'clock and I didn't. It wasn't like I was just all cheerful behind the wheel going to this meeting. I'm grateful that the meeting existed, but I wasn't all full of glee headed into the meeting today. You know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 19:30

For sure, and I think that's the big delusion around getting into recovery, that everything's gonna be great all the time, and that's just not. That's not my experience. My experience is that it's way better than it ever was and I experienced joy and happiness and contentment and I can show up for a job and I can pay my bills. But life still gets tough, like it's life, you know. And it goes back to my first step where it's like getting high is never the answer. It's never the answer. It makes everything so much worse, you know, and I think we overcomplicate the hell out of this program, you know, and we put some really cool like corks and whistles on it and we make a bunch of shit up over the years, you know. And then we have a very fire and brimstone mentality and I get brainwashed into thinking if I don't do it nightly, I'm gonna die, if I don't meditate, I'm gonna die, and like. That's not my experience, you know at all, and that took me out for a long time, you know.

Speaker 2: 20:35

But as it says that it's very easy for us to rest on our laurels and we are headed for trouble if we do. My sponsor emphasized that to me. He said it doesn't mean you're always, you're wrestling your laurels that you're gonna go out and use immediately. You're headed for trouble. And that shows up in my life, with personal relationships, selfishness, self-centeredness, sitting around like a palletude bubblegum. Woe is me, poor, poor, poor me, and stepping on the toes of my fellows, you know, and just lose joy. Lose joy and sit in an area of greatness.

Speaker 3: 21:16

You both alluded to this and I think it's an important point to emphasize I certainly have this as part of my experience as well is that taking the right action, regardless of the attitude that I have, is way more important than having a good attitude without the action.

Speaker 4: 21:32

100% 100%, because I don't Go ahead.

Speaker 3: 21:38

No Well, so many times we talk to families and it's like, well, we just gotta wait for them to get willing, we gotta wait for them to want this for themselves, and the reality is that can be a really long and sometimes fatal wait.

Speaker 4: 21:51

Yeah, oh, yeah. Well, and it's interesting too, because even when they do want it right Like me, I did want it many a times and then I didn't. You know, my action showed I didn't want it anymore and then my family co-signed it. You know, it's like how many times have y'all done an intervention, or I've done an admission, where the client and the family are willing to do whatever it takes, and then 30 days go by and all of a sudden she has to be at this birthday party next week. She has to. I gotta buy this plane ticket, she's gotta go, she's gotta be there, you know. And then they bury their loved one a few months later and it's like damn, I probably should've listened.

Speaker 3: 22:26

Well, and when life is awful and our feet are in the fire, you know it's real easy to say you know what I'll do whatever you want, just save my life. It's kind of like that foxhole prayer, like just just like you were saying on that detox floor either kill me or help me, but pick one. And you know, the ego rebuilds. We start wanting to do it our way again. Yeah, that wasn't so bad. You know, maybe I was over exaggerating just how awful that was and we start to rationalize.

Speaker 4: 22:55

Maybe I was got sober at 20. My prefrontal cortex wasn't developed all the way. Maybe I'm not really an addict and alcoholic. That's my delusional thought, like those through my mind.

Speaker 3: 23:06

It, despite the abundance of evidence to the contrary.

Speaker 2: 23:09

Yeah, you don't. You talking about currently, like recently I mean not in the last couple of months, maybe in the last couple of months but you talking about through your sobriety. Your head will start telling you that.

Speaker 4: 23:17

Oh, hell yeah, whenever I get like disconnected and discontent and I get in that victimhood, that thought like, whenever I think that thought, that's when I know I'm headed for trouble, right Like, just like you said, when I think, man, I got sober when I was 20, I was so young, maybe I just made really bad choices, maybe I could drink successfully, right Like. And I think that people also think, like we get into recovery and then we don't think about drinking or using anymore, right, and I always say, if you get into recovery and you never think about drinking and using ever, you're probably not one of us Like, you're probably not one of us because this disease centers in my mind and even almost seven years sober, like, I still have a disease that's centered in my mind and that is for me today like a really good sign that I'm slacking, that I need to get on, I need to look at something you know.

Speaker 3: 24:13

I remember I'm telling on myself a little bit here, but I remember when Fireball Whiskey came out, I'd already been sober for a number of years and I was a whiskey drinker and I remember distinctly thinking, man, I bet that tastes good, you know. And just completely like in that moment, thinking I'd love to try some of that, you know. And it lasted for just a brief moment till I realized like, wait a minute, hang on. But. But there was a second where it was like man, cinnamon and and we got that that does taste good, you know. Yeah, the things we allow ourselves to entertain, it's crazy sometimes.

Speaker 2: 24:51

Yeah, I heard people tell me, is like man. It tastes just like a fireball and in my head I'm like Damn man. Those things were good but they really weren't. When I was a kid I didn't like them. When it was, I didn't like fireballs, you know the little candy ball. I didn't think much of them, but all of a sudden I find that appealing in a whiskey.

Speaker 4: 25:09

Mm-hmm, that was my experience with white claw.

Speaker 3: 25:12

I'm trying to. I don't know that I ever had that experience when, where white claw sounded good, I think that was. I was kind of through that, that phase. But there's been times, like you hear about some of these new designer drugs that come out or something like that. I'm like, huh, I wonder what would have happened if I had tried that. You know, I think we all have those thoughts. I don't think we all, you know, certainly act on them, but to think that we don't have them, I think is, you know, dishonest. I think everybody listened to this podcast and it who's in recovery has had those thoughts.

Speaker 2: 25:41

Yeah, mine was ecstasy like I never, never did ecstasy and I was like I know, did I miss out something that I did?

Speaker 3: 25:48

I miss something there, you know as a guy who did a lot of ecstasy, you didn't miss out on much, trust me.

Speaker 2: 25:55

That and quailudes. I feel like I missed out on the quailudes.

Speaker 3: 25:58

Well, that's because we were like five years old in the 70s. That's why I Mean if we started at nine, like Sam, we might have been able to hit the quailudes, but I think they were kind of that we'd moved on to better things by then. I don't know. Oh, so You're, you're reluctantly going to sober living. You've, you've decided, you're gonna. You know, follow direction.

Speaker 2: 26:26

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 26:27

What do the next several years look like for you in early recovery?

Speaker 4: 26:32

You know, I remember I Got things back pretty quick, you know, because I have never been arrested, you know, and for a long time I was like I'm not that bad, I've never been arrested, I'm not that bad, I haven't, you know, whatever. And the beginning for me, I think the biggest struggle, was the, the damage that I've done to my relationships with my younger brother and my dad, you know, and In the beginning it was just the normal stuff, like getting a job, going to work, going to meetings, going to intensive outpatient, Just doing the next right thing, you just, and not trusting my mind ever, you know, and that was my experience for my first, like two years, and I remember my first like spiritual experience, quote-unquote Spiritual experience, because I've never had like a burning bush spiritual experience. That was not my Story. But I remember like 18 months sober or nine months over, something like that, something right around the year, I wanted to get high, so bad, like that feeling where you have a spring in your stomach and you cannot Like the mental obsession is there and you're about to shit yourself. You want to get high, so bad, you know.

Speaker 4: 27:43

And I had never been able to get past that ever. I was always when I went out, every single time because I couldn't, like, I could not self-will myself out of that spot, and I remember, like clear as day, calling my sponsor and telling her about it, and she said okay, sam, this is what I want you to do. I want you to go sit with a newcomer, break down the doctor's opinion, take them to a meeting, share in that meeting about what's currently going on and be honest. And then, if you still want to get high, go get high. And I did that and I had it like a Crazy experience where, like that obsession was removed instantly for me and I was thinking like holy shit, like maybe everything Everyone has been telling me is right, you know. So I didn't fully buy into this deal Until I was like over a year, sober, you know, and For those chronic relapses, like it's hard to get there, like it's it takes time, you know, and a lot, of, a lot of misery to like be willing to to do that, you know.

Speaker 4: 28:46

And After that, like I had a hundred percent bought in and I sat all the way down and I Got to. I became a house manager for the arbor at about a year and some change sober, not too long after that and I got to help other people and Other people that were chronic relapses. See, that's a lot of it. A lot of what the arbor does is chronic relapses, you know, people with severe mental health and addiction and I got to start giving back and that was just a huge pivot point in my recovery.

Speaker 2: 29:24

Now let me ask you at that point sober, becoming in a leader position and also Dipping your toe into working in the treatment industry, did that backfire on you at any point? Because I know it's very difficult for us to work in the treatment industry. We work around recovery all day. The last thing I want to do when I get home is talk about recovery.

Speaker 4: 29:45

It's a good question, so Not one.

Speaker 2: 29:47

Well, that's why we do it, that's why we're podcasters, because we asked Damn good questions.

Speaker 4: 29:54

Not necessarily when I was a house manager and not necessarily because then I became a tech at the residential, you know, around two years sober and then. But I became a recovery manager and a roll of recovery manager is to walk people through the 12 steps and a year into that I was so done with recovery. I was so Tired because, as far as like the 12-step work because I I'm walking 13, 14 women through the work at work a week and the last thing I wanted to do is go home and talk about the 12 steps it was the last thing I wanted to do and I mean I made that my recovery. I really did. I made that my recovery and I made that my sponsorship.

Speaker 4: 30:43

And, and you know, I was sitting on the couch one day and I was looking at my dog because I love my dogs more than anything in the world and I was like I'm gonna lose my dogs because I'm gonna get high soon, you know, and I literally got off the couch, went to a meeting, got honest like, did all the things that people suggest me to do, and then I Changed jobs, you know, because that's not the job for me, you know, and so I got out of it because I'm not willing to put anything above my recovery, and working in treatment is not my recovery, it can't be so at what point did you start working in the admissions department at the Arbor?

Speaker 4: 31:25

2019 2020.

Speaker 3: 31:27

I started working in admissions just as the pandemic was kicking off, huh.

Speaker 4: 31:32

Yes, right as the pandemic with it, literally like I think that same week or something like that, and that just changed the way treatment, the way we brought people into treatment to an extreme and it made it very difficult for people to get help one they were terrified of going into groups of people and the whole world just started isolating, you know, and as we all know, like addiction and mental illness lives in isolation, and so it's just, I mean the whole world and and the family dynamics I mean. I really think like Family dynamics change so much when COVID hit, you know, it's just like yeah.

Speaker 4: 32:19

We thought we could save them to a way more extreme than I saw before, you know.

Speaker 3: 32:25

Yeah well, everybody's together, everybody's got eyes on one another. I can see the problem. I'm right here, I've got hands on, and the delusion is is that, if I can see it, if they're under my roof, I can control this.

Speaker 4: 32:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:41

You know that COVID really rocked the world of recovery in the 12-step rooms and the way the treatment industry works, and and I would and I've said this and thought this before that Now I feel like I came out a little unscathed. But as I'm coming to this awareness around what I'm really doing from my recovery, I'm realizing that it was during COVID is where I peeled away from the 12-step Fellowship, the fellowship of the 12 steps, and I justified the absolute shit out of that with my opinions around people, of my alcoholic opinions around people. Because I'm watching it and really what was needed was for me to step up and be more a part of the fellowship, because it's really when it needed us During these trying times. It needed me, not that I was all important, but as a member I was needed and I peeled away and I justified it by saying you know, because I'm looking at my friends on one side of the aisle, that took it just to a fucking extreme and I feel like I lost respect because it really what it was. I was judging the shit out of them and then my friends on the other side of the aisle that took it to the opposite extreme.

Speaker 2: 33:51

I feel like I lost respect for them but really what I was doing was judging the shit out of them, right, and I just like man, I'm done with people, I'm done with people and that was my out, that was my you know bow out of Really engagement in the fellowship the way that I should have been, in the way that I was. Covid messed up a lot of shit. It really did, and it's not just like COVID messed up a lot of shit. Our Reaction to COVID messed up a lot of shit for sure.

Speaker 3: 34:20

Yeah, and you know, even in the way that we did interventions, I didn't stop traveling. I don't think you stop traveling and doing interventions. During the, the pandemic, I know that there were some interventionists out there that would only do interventions via zoom. Wow, and I was like how in the world do you make that work? You know that just doesn't seem practical. Or, you know, with any you you know you're not gonna be successful. I mean, I'm not saying they weren't, I just couldn't see myself being successful with that dynamic. And you know I did plenty of interventions outside and certainly with masks. And you know the reality is the people that we work with are gonna die of addiction way before they die of COVID, most likely. Yeah, so, in spite of the fact that you know there was a lot of fear and certainly a lot of risk, um, I think it. It distracted us from the real threat with the people that we work with and the families that we work with.

Speaker 4: 35:12

Yeah, and can you imagine like trying to get sober in the middle of COVID, like all the meetings are on Zoom I mean intensive outpatient was on Zoom.

Speaker 4: 35:23

Like all those people that I worked with that are sober today, that got sober during COVID, like I have a whole new respect for it because they didn't have that like sense of community that we had, like when we first got sober and you walked into a room and there's 50 people in a room and they're all just like wrapping you up, putting your arms around you, like, oh my God, I'm so glad you made it. It's like I have a whole new respect for people that got sober during COVID, like yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:52

Yeah, I did an intervention training on Zoom and it was, you know, I felt just horrible for people that that's what they had with Zoom, aa meetings, you know, or Zoom in a meetings or CA or whatever. Uh, it's difficult. Yeah, I'm with you on that one man. Mad respect for those that got sober during that time, mad respect. And you talk about a justifiable out of not going to treatment. Yeah, you know, like I'm not going to treatment. Yeah, you're crazy, covid going on. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 36:25

I've had people ask me, sam, what the trainings that we do, you know, is this online or is this in person? And I said, oh, no, it's in person.

Speaker 1: 36:31

Oh yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 3: 36:33

You know, it's like I'd rather turn off my camera and pretend to be there for you know, eight hours a day than actually like have to show up and and do this, and at least that's my impression of you know, when I get asked that question.

Speaker 3: 36:45

I see that reaction. But so, sam, let's kind of get back to where you're at now. Like you're working at the Arbor, you're the admissions director there. Sam and I, of course are both familiar. We've had clients go through the Arbor. We both actually work there at one point before we started doing intervention work full time. That's where Sam and I kind of reconnected and really kind of concretized our friendship was during that time that we were both working at the Arbor. So it certainly holds a place in my heart and you know Sam's probably kicking himself for having run into me again while we were working there. But at any rate, tell us a little bit about what the Arbor is, what it does, why it's maybe a little different as far as the structure than most treatment programs.

Speaker 4: 37:34

You know, and I'm going to answer that question, but I'm going to answer it in a so like the industry nowadays, right, the industry currently. There's so many treatment centers now and I get asked that question a lot and it's really hard for me to put, to put it into words Because, like the truth is is I am very good at what I do because of what I've been through, right, and I could probably work at any treatment center that I wanted to as an admissions rep. And there's a reason why that I work at the Arbor and I think, like the biggest thing that sets us apart is that we're a family owned and operated facility and, just to be like our owners, this is not their only company, this is their passion. Like this is what they do because they are in recovery and they love helping people. And the Arbor is not, it's not a corporate company, it's not a. I don't sit in the owner's meetings, the monthly meetings that we do, and talk about the bottom line, like we talk about what we're doing to help people.

Speaker 4: 38:47

A big thing that one of the owners emphasizes on is the 12 step program that we offer. Like that is that's what he cares about, you know. And the other one. The big thing that he cares about is the 12 step recovery and clinical work. Like that's what they care about. And so I think, like, right there, just getting a little snapshot of like what the people at the very top care about, like that, right there is the big thing that trickles down to the entire program.

Speaker 4: 39:16

That sets us apart, you know, and two things that I would say, like as far as what the Arbor offers that you're not going to get better anywhere else, is our family program. Our executive director is a PhD in license and marriage family therapy and he built this family program with Amy Alden, which a lot of people know who Amy Alden is. She's got two sons in recovery, she's been in recovery for 15 plus years and they've built this beautiful family program in person, nine to five, two days a week. We do a family outpatient program. That's in person for two months, twice a week, you know, and it's for families.

Speaker 3: 40:00

And let me ask you this, because I know this is the way that it used to be and you can correct me if I'm wrong, if it's not this way anymore but you don't have to have a client at the Arbor to be able to go through the family program there. Is that correct? 100%, 100%.

Speaker 4: 40:12

And we offer a family support group via Zoom Wednesday night so you can attend from anywhere. You do not have to have a loved one in recovery to be a part of that family support group. You do not have to pay for that to be a part of it. It's completely free and it's accessible from anywhere. And it's beautiful because we have families that have been with the Arbor for eight, nine years that attend that family support group and then families that are just joining, you know, and so we're so used to the treatment environment where you drop your loved one off and you come and pick them up 30 days later and there's no real effective change to the family. And, like I said, like the big thing that changed for me, that got me sober, is that my family held boundaries and the Arbor did that for me and I hated them for it. But I'm so grateful now that they taught my family how to not participate in my addiction, because if addiction has resources, it's going to thrive, period. You know that is the major thing that sets us apart.

Speaker 4: 41:12

And the other piece is equine therapy. I mean, we're on 80 acres, we have 11 equine horses and we're used to the therapy where you sit in the office and you talk about your feelings. You know it's very important, but this is like experiential. So you're moving your body, you're talking about regulation and a horse does not care about what you did last week or yesterday or how you're going to manipulate them into thinking, and it's.

Speaker 4: 41:34

I thought it was a bunch of crap when I first got introduced to it and I was not a crier, I was not an individual Like. I knew how to work a therapist, I knew how to show up in group. I've been to treatment 10 times, you know, and I got in a round pen with a horse and I was balling within like five minutes and it was. It was huge for me, you know. But then it's tough, right, because, like, I'm working with families that are talking to four different treatment centers and it's like how do you portray that, that experience versus a bunch of like truth be told, like there's a lot of run of the mill places out there. There's a lot of good places, a lot of good treatment options, but there's a lot of not good ones too, you know. So I don't know if that answered your question, but that's my answer.

Speaker 3: 42:26

Well, and the one thing that I like when I have my clients go to the Arbor is that they're gonna get an experience that's specific to their own gender, that men are with men, women are with women, and I think there's a huge advantage to that when someone goes to treatment, that men get to learn how to be men in recovery and women get to learn how to be women in recovery, and I think there is a stark difference in the way that that process should happen and is happening. Talk about that for a little bit.

Speaker 4: 42:56

Yeah, I mean, you put any woman or man in a process group with men and women, and I don't care who you are and I don't care what you tell me. Society has put the world at large like men need to be strong and women need to be sensitive, right, it's just majority of our world, and so I would not open up the same way in a group of men and women that I do in a group of women. Right, I always viewed women as competition, right, like, and every girl that I admit, almost every woman I admit is like I'm not friends with women, I only have male friends and I'm like well, welcome to the club, sweetheart, because we view each other as competition and that changes in recovery. My best friend is a woman. I never thought that would happen.

Speaker 4: 43:43

And so these groups that you know, women don't wanna talk about their abortions, they don't wanna talk about their rape, they don't wanna talk about sexual abuse in a group of with men and women. And vice versa, right, the amount of men that have been sexually abused or assaulted that there's no way they're gonna talk about that in a room full of men and women. And so it's a beautiful way to allow people to feel more comfortable, consciously or subconsciously, and talk about those things and it really takes away distraction Cause, like I said, like I'll use anything to distract myself, I slept with the guy behind the cafeteria at one of my treatment centers, you know, because he was there and I didn't wanna look at Sam, you know, I didn't wanna look at myself.

Speaker 3: 44:30

Well, if there are families listening today that wanna get ahold of you and wanna talk to you about helping their loved one, how do they do that? We'll put this, all this information, in the show notes, but go ahead and give your contact information out and any information about getting ahold of the arbor.

Speaker 4: 44:44

Yeah, so our main admissions line is probably the it is the best way to call us. It rings from 9 am to 9 pm. You know. If you call after that, you can leave a message and we'll call you back. But our main admissions line it's 844-413-2690. And this is not a call center. You're calling this is not a, nothing like that.

Speaker 4: 45:09

It's four people that are in long-term recovery that answer the main admissions line, that care about the family and care about the client, and I run that team and when I hire someone, the biggest thing that I look at is do they care? Because working in this industry and working in this field, like compassion fatigue is a thing, it's a huge thing and we're all guilty of it. Every single one of us that have worked in this field for any period of time are guilty of compassion fatigue. And what do we do? What do I do to get out of that? You know, and a big.

Speaker 4: 45:48

I require people on my team to take a week off every six months, like it's not a question, it's not a you have to, because you lose that compassion and you lose that care if you don't take care of yourself and if I lose the compassion, then what am I doing? You know, if I lose the, if I can't look at people as humans anymore, then what am I doing? Cause I'm talking to seven to 12 families a day that are in the biggest crisis of their life, and if I don't care about that, then I'm useless, you know. So our main admissions line is how you can reach us.

Speaker 3: 46:31

Thank you, and the website.

Speaker 4: 46:34

Just the Arbor Behavioral Healthcare thing going the website. We also have a Facebook, we have an Instagram and we have a TikTok cause. Tiktok's a thing nowadays. Sam Davis actually introduced us to the idea of TikTok and we created a TikTok and it's been awesome and you can meet all of our horses. If you look at our TikTok, we have like all of our horses and their backgrounds and their stories and it's really cool.

Speaker 3: 47:04

Well, sam, thank you for being here today, thanks for sharing your story and so much of the journey that you've been through. And you know, if there's parents out there that have loved ones that are starting to feel that sense of hopelessness, that have had multiple experiences and are just wondering, like, how is my kid or how is my spouse or whoever it is you're worried about, how are they gonna get the help that they need, I'd love for them to think about calling you. You guys are a great resource.

Speaker 4: 47:35

We're happy to help and thank you guys for having me on here, definitely, definitely.

Speaker 2: 47:41

Yeah, y'all have an alumni speaker coming down in November, not an alumni, but a speaker for y'alls.

Speaker 4: 47:47

Yes, we do Our alumni reunion is November 11th and it's on property and my dad's actually cooking.

Speaker 3: 47:55

No way, that's awesome. Who's the speaker?

Speaker 2: 48:00

You don't know who to speak. It's me, I'm speaking. I was invited down.

Speaker 4: 48:03

That's so amazing.

Speaker 2: 48:04

I don't.

Speaker 4: 48:04

I don't, oh, that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 48:06

Yeah, they asked me.

Speaker 4: 48:07

That is amazing. I'm so glad they asked you. That's gonna be awesome. I have nothing to do with planning that alumni reunion. They keep me way out of it.

Speaker 2: 48:16

Yeah, nah, man, I was glad to do it. I'm not an alumni there, but I used to work there when y'all first opened up and had a great experience there, and when Matt was there. Man, I feel so bad. I'm a little embarrassed when I think back on it. I was just a tech and I got so pissed off that they didn't make me tech supervisor, like I was fully invested into that place and I got pissed off again. I was God. I was always on Justin's nerve. I know I was. I would get pissed off again because they wouldn't let me and staff him. You know I'm like man, I need to be in staffing, you know, and I'd be like what the what's this therapist doing? I mean, what are you doing?

Speaker 3: 48:56

Some of those staffing meetings were epic and not in a good way.

Speaker 1: 49:00

Yes, some of them.

Speaker 3: 49:03

There were some opinions that got shared in some of those meetings that you know I'm some of them, I'm proud of some of them, I'm not, and yeah, You'll never be able to tell us that we lack passion. That's for sure. No, that's for sure.

Speaker 4: 49:17

Yeah, you have a couple of people that work at the Arbor in a room fighting for their clients and the approach, then sometimes it gets a little intense, yeah.

Speaker 3: 49:30

Well, guys, if you're listening to this and you want to learn more about the Arbor the website, I believe, is thearborcom, and Sam gave the phone number out a few minutes ago I'll put that in the show notes. Thanks again for being here, sam and Sam Davis. We'll see you on the next one, man.

Speaker 4: 49:45

Thank you guys.

Speaker 2: 49:47

Yes, Thank you, Samantha. Bye y'all.

Speaker 1: 49:53

Thanks again for listening to the party records. If you liked what you heard, please leave us a rating and a review. This helps us get the word out to more people, to learn more or to ask us a question we can answer in a future episode. Please visit us at partyrecordscom and remember don't enable addiction ever. On behalf of the party records, matt Brown and Sam Davis. Let's talk again soon.