21 Years of Steadfast Sobriety: A Personal Milestone, Reflection, and the Transformative Journey of Recovery

As Matt approaches a personal milestone of 21 years sober, He's reminded of the early days—those tremulous first six months and the life-changing moment he learned he was going to be a father. Join Matt and Sam on a reflective odyssey from shaky beginnings to steadfast sobriety, where we tackle the misconceptions that trip up many newcomers. It's a celebration, an exploration, and perhaps most importantly, a reminder that the journey of recovery continually unfolds with every step we take.

An interventionist whose own story of sobriety took a dramatic turn leading him to his life's work, adds a profound layer to our discussion. His tale is one of tightropes walked between self-will and divine intervention, of strict recovery conditions, and the inheritance of wisdom from a mentor that shaped his future. His touching account of how his children view his vocation will stir your heart, reminding us of the ripple effect our choices have on those we hold dear.

We wrap up our time together with a conversation about the transformative power of sobriety. It's about those moments when the right words hit you with the force of a revelation, and the courage it takes to confront the emotional turmoil that fuels addiction. The strength and bravery inherent in the choice to recover is not only celebrated but exemplified. As we traverse this road of awakening and healing, we also ponder the risks and rewards of sobriety, and the infinite value of sharing our stories.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by professional interventionists Matt Brown and Sam Davis. This is a podcast for families or individuals with loved ones who are struggling with addiction or alcoholism and are reluctant to get the help that they need. We hope to educate and entertain you while removing the fear from the conversation. Stay with us and we'll get you through it. Please welcome the party wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.

Speaker 2: 0:38

All right, we're back. We're here on episode number 39. I was yeah, as I was counting them yesterday, We've done 38 episodes so far. So this is number 39. And you know, for as many weeks and months as we've missed, I'm not too sad about that. We've put out a pretty good bit of content so far on this. I'm looking forward to a lot more.

Speaker 3: 1:01

Man, we've got a good product, man, good product. Look, we've got a. We've got a good product, man, good product, look, we got you. That's, you're coming up on 21 years sober, dude, 21 years sober.

Speaker 2: 1:11

Well, I mean, I'm, I'm proud of that. I don't, I don't know how I feel about being the product, but, uh, I, I'm, I'm proud of 21 years of sobriety, that's for sure I uh, you know, I always thought, by the time I got to this point, that life would be so much easier. But, uh, you know, it's just life, man, life is still happening and I just have better tools to deal with it, I guess, or have learned how to use them a little bit more. But, yeah, I appreciate that I'm on on on April 6th, I will have, uh, 21 years 21 years sober.

Speaker 3: 1:56

Now let me ask you when you were just sober enough, like maybe six months sober.

Speaker 2: 1:59

what did you want out of sobriety? Where was your headspace? What did you want? Wow, At six months, I think at six months.

Speaker 3: 2:05

I just I was working at a treatment center. Six months sober working at a treatment center.

Speaker 2: 2:07

I'd been working at a treatment center for five months at this point. You know I was a tech and you know I probably was looking at. Okay, what do I want to do? I want to keep working in treatment. The idea of being an interventionist was not even on my radar yet. I don't think the idea of being an interventionist was not even on my radar yet. I don't think I had?

Speaker 3: 2:29

Had you even given it any thought to be an interventionist? I mean, had it ever crossed your mind?

Speaker 2: 2:34

Not at all, Not at six months over, no way, you know I was. I just found out that I was going to be a dad. I had, I was in a relationship, Hadn't gotten married yet to my ex-wife, but we, you know, found out that my daughter was coming, Bella. And yeah, it was a lot was changing at six months. You know I had to. I had to grow up and and take life pretty seriously at that point.

Speaker 3: 3:05

Six months sober. Still crazy as a bed bug at six months oh without a doubt.

Speaker 2: 3:09

Without a doubt, yeah, I mean, I was barely holding it together, trying to look like I was holding it together. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3: 3:15

Yeah, yeah, but walk up into a meeting like man. I got six months sober y'all. I got this figured out Back when I was a newcomer. Yeah, yeah for all the people that are just coming in.

Speaker 2: 3:31

Oh man, yeah, yeah, I probably.

Speaker 3: 3:34

I probably said that a time or two yeah, man, 21 years, that's a long time, that's a long time. That's a long time. You know, an old-timer told me. He said it takes two years to get your brains unscrambled and five years to get them out of pawn once you sober up.

Speaker 1: 3:50

I mean man, there's a lot of truth to that there's a lot of truth.

Speaker 3: 3:53

I hear people you know, man, I've been sober a week. I've never felt this good in my life, Like life is amazing and I'm like, hold on there, Hucklebuck, this will pass. This will pass.

Speaker 2: 4:06

You know, as interventionists, we're putting people in treatment quite often. And how often are you hearing? Well, I've been here for three weeks. I'm good. I know what I need to do to stay sober. I don't need to stay here for another two and a half months. I'm good. I got this. I don't want to drink anymore. I don't want to use drugs anymore. I'm fine.

Speaker 3: 4:25

Yeah, man, the thing is, when you're taking people to treatment and they're on the airplane or in the car headed to the airport or sitting at the airport, we have some good conversations. But it's like I get some sometimes that from the time we get in the car, leaving the house, to the time we get to our destination, it's well, I need this and I need that and this is what I need. I need that, I need this, and I'm always like hey, man, do you think we can set aside your belief system around what you think you need? I said because, clearly, I mean, you know, here we are, you know, and and by that point you know I can talk to them like that, um, because we built a little connection, you know, and it's an opportunity to like keep them centered, keep, keep their feet, keep them, keep their head where their feet are, you know, and kind of kind of reel them back in.

Speaker 2: 5:21

Well, let's, let's, let's chat about that for a second, like when you, when you look back at where you were at, you know, say, say, in the first month, six months, whatever, that was what was one thing that you, a belief that you held onto that you had a hard time giving up. Hmm, can you think of anything?

Speaker 3: 5:41

Yeah, I mean something I struggled with, uh, like a belief or like a plan, anything.

Speaker 1: 5:47

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 5:48

Like I had this like for the longest time eight months, nine months cause I was in treatment for a very long time. I was an inpatient for, you know, almost a year and for just about all of that time I'm like, I'm not going to sober living, I'm not doing it Like I had a career. You know, like the time I left high school and finished Beach Week, you know, I launched into my career in the family business and I thought that's what I was supposed to be doing and I thought that's what I was always going to do. And you know how you get those binders in treatment. When you go into a treatment center they give you a binder with your book and the pages and the rules and all that stuff. It's your binder. And then where I went, you had to take your binder. Everywhere you went there was a white binder.

Speaker 3: 6:35

And there's this periodical that comes out in my old industry. It's called Southern Logging Times. It's a magazine about loggers. An old guy told me on old logger. He said, yeah, you're usually in that magazine twice when you first, when you buy all the equipment and you they want to do an article on you and then you're in the second time. You're in that magazine is when you're in the back end of the magazine and selling it all.

Speaker 3: 7:01

And, uh, you know I was having them sent to me down in treatment because that was my identity, that was I was really the only identity that I had at that time, like it was the only thing that that seemed still somewhat normal when I was even in active addiction. You know, it's something that I could still feel somewhat normal around, was going to work and and that was my identity, man, and I had my binder. I'd cut out pictures, like I was in third grade or something, to cut out pictures from Southern logging times and put it taped them on your vision board, you know equipment, yeah yeah, because I had like look, man, my plans and designs.

Speaker 3: 7:40

I was going back to the woods, you know I was. I was going back to the woods and going back to work. But I knew too that my family had sold everything. As soon as I got on an airplane going to treatment, they sold all my stuff. But that was that belief was I wasn't going to sober living, I was going right back to Virginia as soon as treatment was over, just as quick as I could get out of there, and I was going back to work.

Speaker 2: 8:06

And what did that look like? When you envisioned yourself going back to work, what did that vision look like? Were you running a massive company, were you running a small operation? Or captain of industry, what did it look like?

Speaker 3: 8:22

They had a vast enterprise. That's right, no man. It's like because I knew everything was gone, but it was the only thing that I knew, and like when I was at that point in sobriety. I think a lot of people are like this, like, yeah, I'm going back to my industry, but I had no idea how to pull that off. I had there, there was no equipment left, there was no business. But there wasn't a business. It was all delusion in my head. At that point I just figured I was going to make it happen, or I was hoping that maybe someone would enable that to happen for me. You know family.

Speaker 2: 8:57

And how long did you hang on to that idea? Until you realized, like, yeah, I'm going to be working in the timber industry, but it's going to be, you know, on a on a tree trimming crew in Austin, texas, with a few bucks in my pocket.

Speaker 3: 9:10

Man, I didn't know, Like like I didn't, I didn't know that I was like up until a couple of weeks before I walked out the door I told everybody my halfway house is going to be Meridian, mississippi, because I was halfway between Texas and Virginia on my way home, right, that was going to be my halfway house, you know. And then self-will run riot I had. Honestly, you know, I had met that because where I went to treatment I was in Austin, texas, and they moved everyone to Dallas towards the end of their stay and I didn't have any business or wants of going in Austin, texas, and they moved everyone to Dallas towards the end of their stay and I didn't have any business or wants of going to Dallas, texas. So self-will run riot man, as soon as I got my phone privilege back I'm about 11 months sober I'd go outside and start calling Sober Living in Austin and I'm like I'm walking out this door, they're not coming in telling me to pack my stuff. I'm going to Dallas, I'm going. I'm walking out this door, they're not coming in and telling me to pack my stuff, I'm going to Dallas. I'm going to beat them to the punch.

Speaker 3: 10:09

And I found a server living in Austin still really had. No, I was just going to hang out in Austin for a little bit, cause I would have gone back home. But my family had set boundaries with me and they were holding those boundaries even 11 months in. They're like we're done, like we're not. You're on your own. 100 done Like we're not. You're on your own, 100% you're on your own. They. They paid for treatment. You know they did that, but that's it Like you're on your own.

Speaker 2: 10:31

Let's just back up for a second to something you said when I got my phone privileges back at 11 months. Yeah, I want this just sink in for a second with all the families that are listening right now, especially the one that I'm thinking of. Most is probably not listening right now, I don't even know if they know that we do a podcast, but it was a family that I've worked with you know, just recently, within the last month, but at the treatment center that that their son went to, there was a seven day blackout period and they were losing their mind for those seven days, Like is he okay, what's going on, Is he all right? And it's like they. They couldn't. They couldn't allow themselves to rest or relax and just know, like you know what, there's no crisis today. They just didn't know what to do in the absence of that crisis and 11 months into treatment, you got your phone privileges back.

Speaker 3: 11:26

Yeah, yeah, I tell families, no news is good news, you know, if you don't hear anything, if you hear crickets, that's good news, you know. Yeah, 11 months. Well, man, look after I'd been on a no female contact contract for seven months. You know, 11 months of not having a phone was just another thing, it was just another day, like I was still trying to wrap my head around. You mean, for seven months I couldn't talk to a female. Seven months, like it was stranger danger.

Speaker 1: 11:55

We go to an aa meeting.

Speaker 3: 11:57

It didn't matter if, uh, uh, if she was 100 years old and came in on a walker, if she sat down beside me, I had to get up and had to get up, yeah, like we. And it was a co-ed facility. Like I couldn't talk to the females there. Only in small group Could I talk to when I was around a clinician. But and I, you know, I earned my way into that. Consequence, sure, or growth opportunity is what they called it, and it really was when you look back, it's a growth opportunity, but yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:25

Stranger danger, what they didn't realize, that you were, the stranger danger that they were protecting all the females from you.

Speaker 3: 12:31

Oh my God, yeah, man, I was. Yeah, oh, definitely, definitely Like. Waylon Jennings said women had been my trouble since I found out they weren't men. You know it was. It was a heck of a distraction. A very nice distraction, toxic, but a nice distraction. I go to treatment and you know, get get out of myself by, you know flirting with somebody else, but uh you know, but man it it.

Speaker 3: 12:59

You know I was. I think we were. You had asked me about um like how was I going to make that happen or how long did I?

Speaker 2: 13:08

Yeah, when you said I'm going back home and I'm going to start working at the family business again, even though the family business didn't exist, how long did it take you to throw that idea out?

Speaker 3: 13:16

Man. I was into that idea until I walked out of the door, ama, against medical advice and against staff advice, and with my trash bag full of clothes and 150 bucks going to a sober living in Austin A couple days prior to that was my thinking. Even at almost a year sober, I'm sober. Even at almost a year sober man, I was still crazy. You know, I'd had some freedom, I'd had some relief, I'd done some work, I'd done some trauma work. I was like a brand new spring chicken. But you know, you see, a chicken when it comes out to shell is not much attractive about it and it still does some wonky things. You know, and I was that little spring chicken. I didn't know whether I didn't know whether to shit or go blind, you know, but my ego was telling me that, hey, I got it, man, I got this.

Speaker 3: 14:09

Thank God for sobriety. I'm super sober, sharing in every meeting, you know, holding people accountable in treatment and having plans and designs in my back pocket, you know, when no one was looking. So you know God had different plans for me. So you know God had different plans for me and he actually God, used my self-will to walk out of treatment early. Now I don't advise this for anyone. When I say early, I was two weeks shy of a year of being impatient when I walked out and I don't advise anyone to do that. It just worked out in my case. God had different plans, man. I went to sober living and then I didn't know when to be in it. How many kids have you ever seen says I want to be an interventionist when I grow up? I mean no one.

Speaker 2: 14:57

Yeah, my daughter said that. My nine-year-old this is probably like a year ago. She says Daddy, I want to be an interventionist. When I grew up and I said, sweetheart, I hope you're not like, you don't want to have to go through what you have to go through to be qualified to be, you know, an interventionist that understands addiction to the level that Sam and I do. You don't want to have to put yourself through that.

Speaker 3: 15:18

Yeah, my son. I asked my son one time. I said Adam. I said my oldest son. I said would you like to do what I do one day? He's like hell, no, hell, no.

Speaker 2: 15:28

Rather be a welder.

Speaker 3: 15:30

Yeah, he'd rather be anything than that, but we didn't see this coming. It's not like the day Now when I was on the airplane, the day I was intervened on, and John Southworth, the interventionist, and I'd taken some Valium, which actually he'd given me some Valium, sure, because I told him I wanted some liquor and he knew what he would get if he you know well, he didn't know what he would get if I was to put alcohol in my system. He had a pretty good idea, I'm sure. Yeah, he wasn't taking any chances. So he gave me some Valium and he knew that a Valium was just going to. You know, we'll just chill you out and and I'm, you know, my eyeballs are kind of rolling around in my head and I'm on the plane and I'm looking at him and I had this thought I'd like to do what he does one day. And I told him, I said, man, I'd like to do what you do one day and I you know I hear that all the time and I know that he'd heard it all the time he said well, you get a year sober, give me a call.

Speaker 3: 16:24

He didn't. I held him to that. It was a year sober. I called him up and said well, john, hey, I'm a year sober. He said, well, congratulations on that. Now go get a job in a treatment center and start at the ground floor and let's get some experience. Yeah, and it just kind of fell in my lap, kind of just like it did you. It was by God, it wasn't anything that I designed.

Speaker 2: 16:53

And I think there's a lot of people that look at this. And don't get me wrong, it can be exciting. You walk into somebody's house, you don't know what you're going to get. There's an element of adrenaline that is associated with that, those first moments of of the intervention that I mean, I've never been skydiving or you know anything like that, but I imagine that the adrenaline rush is there as well. And, uh, you know there's, there's something about it that's just kind of inherently I don't want to say dangerous. I mean I guess it can be. But there's this moment of okay, here we go, strap in, let's see what we got this time. And I don't think that many people are wired for that. I think that a lot of people want to go into this helping to help people, to, to really with with the best of intentions and the best motives, but I think once they get into it, they get a little bit scared off. I think you have to be wired a little bit wonky to, to, to want to do this and make a career out of it.

Speaker 2: 17:58

Um, I wasn't even sure, I mean, at six months, I wasn't even sure I was going to be staying sober. To be honest with you, I hadn't fully committed at that point because, although I was working in a treatment center and knew I needed to stay sober to keep that job, I hadn't had that experience yet. I knew I didn't want to go back to using and drinking, but I wasn't convinced that I couldn't yet. And I remember going to a meeting it was a speaker meeting and there was a guy there getting his 40-year chip and I remember when they announced him I didn't know this guy at the time, I think I'd been sober for like 30 days and I remember thinking who wants to be sober for 40 years, thinking who wants to be sober for 40 years. And then the thought came to me how in the hell does somebody stay sober for 40 years? And just really being confused by that. And then this guy gets up and he walks on stage and he's got the biker vest on, the black leather vest with the patches on, and he's got the bandana tied around his head and, you know, look like he just rolled up on a you know vintage Harley hopped off and decided to speak on sobriety. And I'm thinking I'm going to have a whole lot in common with this guy. This is going to be fun and I remember that was the first time as I look back at all the meetings that I've attended that I can remember actually walking out of something that stuck with, out of a meeting with something that stuck with me, and that guy, that guy, blew my doors off.

Speaker 2: 19:30

Man, he, he said some things that just hit me and stayed with me, um, particularly when it came to surrender. He talked a lot about his time in Vietnam. He was a Vietnam war vet and he talked about how his experiences on the battlefield related to his experiences with his battle against addiction and that made a lot of sense to me and I could relate to the comparisons that he was making and I remember coming out of there going okay, now I understand how he did it. I don't know if I want to, but it made sense to me how he did it and I think just, I didn't have, you know the the burning bush spirit spiritual experience that a lot of people have. You know the big book describes it as the, you know, spiritual experience of the educational variety and I think that as time went on and I I found myself being happier, I found myself with with a lot of the promises that were given in recovery coming true and that my life was better, my relationships were getting better, my, my relationships with my family were getting better.

Speaker 2: 20:43

Um, I was able to hold a job down. I hadn't done that for a while, and it was just. Life was legitimately getting better. And I just realized like, okay, I don't want to go back to what I had. And I think I was probably somewhere in the 9 to 12-month mark and I remember thinking, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to stick with this.

Speaker 2: 21:09

And although I had been working in treatment and, you know, had been kind of saying what I had been taught to say to the clients at that point, now I was saying it because I meant it and and that's when I started working in the admissions department, there just so happened that the person that was doing admissions at that program ended up leaving.

Speaker 2: 21:31

They asked me if I would be interested and I stepped in and started doing it, got acquainted with some interventionists there and one in particular that did most of our interventions for us, and he would let me ride shotgun with him and and anytime my schedule would allow, and that's kind of how I came into this, but it wasn't. Yeah, I mean it was definitely after that point where I had decided like, okay, I'm, I'm going to do this, I'm going to stick with this, and uh yeah, life just continued to get better and it's not always been easy. Like I'm going through a period of time right now in my life where there's a lot of challenges, but I know that if I don't stay sober, I'm just going to make it worse If I don't and it's not just about sobriety, it's about honesty and integrity and kindness and love and forgiveness and you know, all of these principles that we practice in in sobriety. Like if I lose a firm grasp on any of those, my life gets worse.

Speaker 3: 22:26

You had said something and I'm like man. I noted it and I wanted to speak on it. About the first time you had, you had walked out of a meeting with feeling like you got something out of it.

Speaker 2: 22:42

Yeah, something stayed with me yeah.

Speaker 3: 22:44

And and that's you know that was due to what Getting a message that had depth and weight, a guy that was telling you the truth, a guy that was speaking from his soul and from experience and had had an experience and had a message to carry. And he brought it with depth and weight. Like I remember that man, I sat in in meetings and was just like what in the hell are they talking about? Like yeah, I don't mean early on, and sometimes now I'm sitting a meeting and be like what the hell are they talking about? But you know, early on I'm step seven. What does this even mean? These promises, what is this marketing material? But then rest in peace.

Speaker 3: 23:24

Tony Messbarger came and did a big book. He brought a message of depth and weight and spoke the truth. He grabbed my attention and he had me on the edge of my seat going there's something to this sobriety thing. That was the first time ever that it had. Like that, it got my attention, like he had my full attention. He was telling my story Like he was speaking my language. He could speak the language of addiction and I walked out of there going. There is something to there going. There is something to this. There is something to this and you know you're talking about that guy's 40 years sober and you're wrapped up around the 40 years and not using for the rest of your life, and I think that's so.

Speaker 3: 24:09

Many people get bogged down with that idea, going into sobriety, and I wish that they could understand that. Like man, look, don't look at five years from now, don't look at two years from now, don't look at next year, don't look at just. You're going in right now because you're in a lot of pain and you've got such emotional baggage and emotional turmoil that is causing you to put substances in your system and destroy your life at an alarming rate that has severe consequences attached to it. You've got a trail of paperwork behind you that led you up to this day. So that's some really serious emotional pain. I mean there's emotional pain that sucks man.

Speaker 3: 24:56

Think of a normal people when they lose a relationship, or their wife walks out of them, or their husband cheats on them, or they lose their job, or they lose their family or whatever, and they go tie on a good drunk. You know they'll go to the bar and maybe they'll do it for a couple of days, maybe they'll do it for a week. Maybe they'll have a stretch of a couple of months while they're going through that period where they'll go three or four times a week to the bar and just get hammered, or maybe just on the weekends and just get hammered, but then they move on and that pain is real pain. That pain hurts when you're a normal person and you have things happen in your life.

Speaker 3: 25:32

So imagine the emotional pain. And it's not a weakness, because addicted individuals are some of the strongest people I've ever met and some of the most talented and gifted people I've ever met and brave, very brave, very brave people. They're not cowards. So when you think about it like that, that must be some really serious, serious pain that we go through and I've lived it Like I know. But we just get so numb to the pain and get so accustomed to the pain that we don't even really you know, it's not like I wake up every day and go, oh, I'm in so much pain. It's not like I wake up every day and go oh.

Speaker 3: 26:17

I'm in so much pain, I would wake up every day and say this whole world is wronging me. It's everyone else's fault.

Speaker 2: 26:30

Poor, poor, poor me. I'm owed a debt by every person on the face of this planet.

Speaker 3: 26:34

Yeah, but that's some serious pain, to where you're putting substances in your system in a deadly, deadly capacity to try and numb it, to fix it.

Speaker 3: 26:47

Yeah, but I'm like just go work on that pain, for right now let's concentrate on working on the pain you know and you there, cause I've seen so many people, I have friends that have done it and I've I've I've seen countless others that you know were bad off and they went and they went to treatment and they got their work done and they, they had sobriety, they were engaged in the 12 steps, they they transformed their life, they got on a spiritual plane. Maybe they got involved with church, maybe they went the route of Buddha, maybe they went a different direction, altogether Baptist, what have you? Or not, just use nature? Or what have you Just got connected to something, found their purpose. Years later they went and they can drink sociably nature, or what have you just got connected to something, found their purpose and years later they went and they, you know, can drink sociably and it doesn't affect their life. Or can um smoke weed? I mean, I've seen people that do it.

Speaker 3: 27:49

Now I can't, but there are people that can, that can do it so you know when guys are wrapped up, and I intervened on one about a month ago that was wrapped up and man, I just I can't imagine, especially young guys, young guys and girls in their 20s. I mean.

Speaker 3: 28:02

I just can't imagine, you know, never drinking again or never being able to do it. I was like man just focus on the pain right now, Fix the pain. You don't know what will happen down the road, the road. But what I'm banking on and what I'm hoping is that once they get connected and find that purpose and get on the spiritual path and do that healing, that they won't even want to consider the use of mind-altering substances after that.

Speaker 2: 28:30

Well, and that's the thing. It could be that you and I are some of those people that, once we've dealt with the pain, we may be able to go out and drink like normal men and women. But why risk it? The life that I have today is not worth the gamble that would come if I decided to tempt fate and see if I am one of those people.

Speaker 3: 28:54

Yeah, I just have no desire. I don't want to find out. I just have no desire to do that. I'm happy with my life. Those people yeah, I just have no desire, I don't want to find out. I just have no desire to do that. I'm happy with my life right now, absolutely, even if it sucks, like when it sucks, it's okay. You know like, well, it's not okay, but I know it's going to be okay.

Speaker 2: 29:09

And the misery of what I lived in for so long was so profound. You know I was not a high bottom drunk. You know I was a homeless down and out guy and and I don't ever want to do anything that's going to potentially put me back there.

Speaker 3: 29:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:27

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 29:30

Same.

Speaker 2: 29:30

Because that's where I'll go. Man, if I go down that road and I am what I think I am, there's no need for me to to, to try to. You know, come up with some sort of new formula for drinking responsibly. Like, I'm going back to being that guy for sure I'll end up right where our friend Tony is. You know, buy me a plot right next to him, because that's where I'm headed.

Speaker 2: 29:50

If I'm not careful, and and that's the thing like there are some people that'll have that experience and then they can go out and they can drink normally.

Speaker 2: 29:54

And then there are some people that'll have that experience and then they can go out and they can drink normally. And then there are some people that will have those experiences, those first step experiences, over and over and over again and for whatever reason and I'm not trying to speculate on anyone in particular, especially Tony, but I think that sometimes there's shame that we can't let go of. I mean, I've struggled with this over the years as I've gotten with different sponsors and I've gotten with different therapists. I've gradually been able to talk about things that in the very early part of my sobriety I couldn't, because of the deep level of shame, because of the deep level of shame, and so there's been some things, even recently, that I've finally been able to come out with that there's no way I could have in my first six months or 12 months of sobriety they were talking about that at a meeting last night in my home group, talking about that shame, and no one was going to ever, ever know about those things.

Speaker 3: 31:00

That just wasn't my experience. Once I got the taste of the freedom because I had a powerful third step. The third step was where I let God handle my business. What he does in my business, none of my business. I had a really powerful experience around that and I kind of got addicted to it. So it just got to and I guess you know, look, it makes it easier for me on social media too, to just dump all my stuff on social media and be so open and transparent. You are too, you know, to a degree you are, um is that? You know? I kind of got addicted to that feeling of that I had in the third step and I'm like, man, this, this shit's real, so I just dumped it all. I just dumped it like I didn't, I didn't give a shit.

Speaker 2: 31:49

I'm like here we are, here, here, I am just bearing it out well, and when we, when we don't let these experiences that brought us shame to begin with have the power over us that they've had, and when we can work through some of this stuff in a, in a you know whether it's a private way or public way it gives other people permission to say you know what I? Maybe, maybe I can do that too. The world's not falling down around him anymore, you know. Maybe maybe it won't fall down around me either.

Speaker 3: 32:34

Now, when I say that I'm not saying that I don't act out of my past, oh sure it crops up. It absolutely crops up. A couple times a week at least It'll crop up. But I was just saying I was willing to talk about it. But it doesn't mean that I'm like oh, I just talked it out and it's all gone. It doesn't work that way.

Speaker 2: 32:58

Oh no, If you had been in therapy with me last week, you'd have heard exactly the same thing she was trying to point out to me. Okay, so what you're talking about now goes all the way back to this experience, and your body remembers what it felt like and the pain it felt. And while your brain may tell you, no, this isn't real, your body doesn't know that. And so all this stuff that you're feeling in your body, all the tightness in your chest and the sick to your stomach, and all of that that goes right back to when you were a kid.

Speaker 3: 33:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, man, and that's what I think you're talking about is that we're awake, right, when we're on this journey, when we're going to therapy and we're doing this process, stuff, or trauma work, anything that we do, the step work, we're awakening. That means to me that we're walking around the world awake instead of walking around the world asleep dreaming. We're awake, which most of us are, and I was asleep from the time I was eight years old until 36, 36 and a half, when I sobered up.

Speaker 2: 34:13

Yeah, you were still having dreams of going and being a logger.

Speaker 3: 34:16

Yeah, I was asleep. You know, Walking around asleep, dreaming, I'm awake.

Speaker 2: 34:20

Yeah, and I did the same with different aspects of my life. Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 34:25

Yeah, and sobriety has allowed that's been a true gift that I really had no idea how to even wrap my head around it six months, or day one or day two, sobriety is like I had no idea. I was asleep, I just had. I just thought that, you know, the world wasn't working the way I wanted it to.

Speaker 2: 34:47

When I first heard that quote, I didn't quite grasp what that meant. To walk around asleep, dreaming that I was awake Like what does that even mean? Asleep dreaming that I was awake? Like what, what does that even mean? And the delusional thinking that I actually believed, the things that I believed about myself and the world around me and how I fit into the world and and completely based in things that weren't reality, like that's the kind of dreaming that I was awake, that that that I was experiencing, like I, I w there were things that were going on in my head that had no grounding or basis in what was really going on in my life. Yeah, Like I, there were things that were going on in my head that had no grounding or basis in what was really going on in my life.

Speaker 3: 35:21

Yeah, that's, you know it's. Um, I looked at it as that just a sleep to what's really going on around me. I was completely asleep to it, to reality, pretty much.

Speaker 2: 35:40

Yeah Well, sam, I'm glad to be on this journey with you, man. 21 years here's to 21 more, and let's keep doing this together and challenging each other and holding each other accountable, and thank you for helping me to be a better man, man.

Speaker 3: 35:56

thank you, matt. It's an honor to be in the trench with you. 21 years is a long time, man. Thank you, matt. It's an honor to be in the trench with you. 21 years is a long time. So grateful for you. My friend Glad to be on here. Let's see guys, you know we got to train and we talked a little bit about interventions and we've got a training coming up the end of April. Last weekend in April, portland, oregon, when is it at? Matt who's sponsoring this one?

Speaker 2: 36:18

Yeah, it's at Cielo Treatment Center, which is a treatment center in Portland specifically for young adults. Great program. I've had a lot of success using them for some of the clients that I've worked with that have gone through there Salara, salazar and Martine they're great, martine Camacho great people. They're the owners over there and they're going to host us and make sure that the people that come to Portland to take this training have a great experience and I think that those that come to the training to get to see the treatment center will enjoy that as well.

Speaker 3: 36:49

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. We love doing those trainings. If you guys are interested in becoming an interventionist or you're already working in the field of behavioral health and you just want to sharpen your skill set a little bit, this training will not disappoint you. Very affordable, it's an entire weekend on site and in supervision virtually after that and man follow us on social. If you're not already. I'm rocking it out on Facebook. Tiktok. Matt's on Facebook. Tiktok. You're doing a lot on Instagram. What's your handle? Matt Brown, interventionist. Matt Brown Interventionist. Sam Davis. Interventionist on TikTok. Sam Davis on Facebook. Sam Davis. Interventionist on Instagram.

Speaker 2: 37:36

Yeah, All right, guys. Well, have a wonderful day. If you missed any of that, it'll be in the description of the podcast. If you want to go to the show notes, it'll all be there hey.

Speaker 3: 37:47

Family Support Group. Thursday nights, 8 pm, eastern time free. Get some guidance, meet with other families. It's virtual, on Zoom, from the comfort of your own home. You don't even have to be on camera. If you don't want to, you don't have to say anything. But it's a great, great group. Thursday nights, 8 pm, Eastern Time. You get the Zoom link. You've got to register. You go to interventiononcallcom and a pop-up will come up to register for the free family support group. Just fill that out. Pop-up will come up to register for the free family support group. Just fill that out. Boom, you'll get the link. Hope to see you guys on Thursday. Yeah, all right, sam have a good one.

Speaker 3: 38:23

Hey, see you bud.

Speaker 1: 38:27

Thanks again for listening to the party records. If you liked what you heard, please leave us a rating and a review. This helps us get the word out to more people to learn more or to ask us a rating and a review. This helps us get the word out to more people To learn more or to ask us a question we can answer in a future episode. Please visit us at PartyWreckerscom and remember don't enable addiction ever. On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis. Let's talk again soon.