Embarking on a heartfelt journey through the world of addiction and recovery, Sam arrived in Houston to be inspired by Brené Brown's powerful dialogue on vulnerability and shame. With that energy, we bring you an episode that not only educates but also provides a guiding light for families navigating the intervention process. RuthAnn Rigby and Eric Button, two luminaries in the field, are names you might hear us mention as we recount the vibrant recovery landscape of Houston, and tease potential future dialogues with such esteemed colleagues.
As your guides, we lay bare the misconception that interventions are battlegrounds, and instead, illuminate them as beacons of compassion where families learn to set boundaries and strategies for enduring wellness. Imagine a roadmap that leads beyond the threshold of treatment facilities and stretches into the vast terrain of lifelong recovery. That's the vision we share with you, reinforced by insights and real-life experiences that shape our discussion on how to support not just the individual in treatment but the entire family unit on their collective journey to healing.
Finally, the episode takes a deeper look at the transformation within families as they engage with the intervention process. The atmosphere leading up to intervention day is fraught with anticipation, but we discuss how families can remain unshaken, even when facing the storms of manipulation or debate. We also reflect on the profound influence of Brené Brown's teachings, underscoring the importance of combating shame and embracing authenticity for true healing. Join us for this episode where wisdom, passion, and the pursuit of a shame-free existence converge to empower you and your loved ones on the path to recovery.
Join us Every Thursday Night at 8:00 EST/5:00PST for a FREE family support group. Register at the following Link to get the zoom information sent to you: Family Support Meeting
Or you can visit or tell someone about our sponsor(s):
Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist to do their own intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professionally led intervention, we can help.
Therapy is a very important way to take care of your mental health. This can happen from the comfort of your own home or office. If you need therapy and want to get a discount on your first month of services please try Better Help.
Embarking on a heartfelt journey through the world of addiction and recovery, Sam arrived in Houston to be inspired by Brené Brown's powerful dialogue on vulnerability and shame. With that energy, we bring you an episode that not only educates but also provides a guiding light for families navigating the intervention process. RuthAnn Rigby and Eric Button, two luminaries in the field, are names you might hear us mention as we recount the vibrant recovery landscape of Houston, and tease potential future dialogues with such esteemed colleagues.
As your guides, we lay bare the misconception that interventions are battlegrounds, and instead, illuminate them as beacons of compassion where families learn to set boundaries and strategies for enduring wellness. Imagine a roadmap that leads beyond the threshold of treatment facilities and stretches into the vast terrain of lifelong recovery. That's the vision we share with you, reinforced by insights and real-life experiences that shape our discussion on how to support not just the individual in treatment but the entire family unit on their collective journey to healing.
Finally, the episode takes a deeper look at the transformation within families as they engage with the intervention process. The atmosphere leading up to intervention day is fraught with anticipation, but we discuss how families can remain unshaken, even when facing the storms of manipulation or debate. We also reflect on the profound influence of Brené Brown's teachings, underscoring the importance of combating shame and embracing authenticity for true healing. Join us for this episode where wisdom, passion, and the pursuit of a shame-free existence converge to empower you and your loved ones on the path to recovery.
Join us Every Thursday Night at 8:00 EST/5:00PST for a FREE family support group. Register at the following Link to get the zoom information sent to you: Family Support Meeting
Or you can visit or tell someone about our sponsor(s):
Intervention on Call is on online platform that allows families and support systems to get immediate coaching and direction from a professional interventionist to do their own intervention. For families who either don't need or can't afford a professionally led intervention, we can help.
Therapy is a very important way to take care of your mental health. This can happen from the comfort of your own home or office. If you need therapy and want to get a discount on your first month of services please try Better Help.
Follow the hosts on TikTok Matt: @mattbrowninterventionist Sam: @the.interventionist.sd
If you have a question that we can answer on the show, please email us at questions@partywreckers.com
Speaker 1:
Who's our next guest?
Speaker 2:
We got no one. We need a new format. We should shut down and retool.
Speaker 3:
Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by professional interventionists Matt Brown and Sam Davis. This is a podcast for families or individuals with loved ones who are struggling with addiction or alcoholism and are reluctant to get the help that they need. We hope to educate and entertain you while removing the fear from the conversation. Stay with us and we'll get you through it. Please welcome the party wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.
Speaker 1:
Welcome back everybody. My name is Matt Brown and I'm here with Sam Davis. We're so glad you decided to join us for this next episode of our podcast. Thanks for being here, sam. How's everything? You're in Houston tonight.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, coming to you not live, but coming to you from downtown Houston, texas, getting ready to listen to. I was invited down to listen to Brene Brown to see her in person and listen to her talk tomorrow at a conference, so I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 1:
I'm a little jealous, I'm a little envious. She is one of my favorite authors and I'm glad you get a chance to be there and hear her speak. You're going to have a good time absolutely I'm.
Speaker 2:
Uh, it's been very pleasurable so far meeting some people and going out to dinner, and it's a good time. It's a good time.
Speaker 1:
There's a group of you that that you, you, I mean you, and I know some of the same people there's, but there's a group down there going to see her right yeah, yeah, it's uh in the spring.
Speaker 2:
Ah gosh, I'm, I'm to get reprimanded for this. I don't know of the spring council or the recovery council.
Speaker 1:
Oh, ok, yeah, they're the Houston Council. Yeah, they're.
Speaker 2:
They're like an outpatient program down there in the Houston area, if I remember correctly 1,500 people coming to see her and it's here at the Hilton in downtown Beautiful hotel. I've never stayed here before. And tomorrow at 11 o'clock, by 1,500 people are going to descend at Work and Behavioral Health or in recovery themselves and I'm going to listen to Brene Brown. That's awesome. We've got some mutual friends of ours. Ruthann Rigby has been around here for a long time and just a wonderful, wonderful lady Full of great energy. We've got Courtney that invited me down. She's with Black Horse Health. I got to spend some time with her Great, great woman. And Eric Button is here.
Speaker 1:
He's a guy that we need to get on here. We need Eric. We've talked about him a few times on here and I think we're doing the world a disservice by keeping him from being heard by I don't want to say the masses, because we're not being listened to by masses by any stretch, but I think the people that do tune into us would certainly get a kick out of Aaron.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely, absolutely. He's one I've had my eye on. I want to get on here for sure. It's just nailing him down. He travels all the time. He's just nailing him down, he travels all the time. He's just a bundle of energy and positive energy. He's just a great demonstration of what freedom and recovery looks like really is Absolutely.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely. Well, before we launch into this, let's plug the training here for the last time. This is really the last time we're going to have a chance to talk about the training in Portland Oregon. It's happening a week from Saturday. About the training in Portland Oregon. It's happening a week from Saturday. Oh, I guess Alexa had wanted, wanted to chime in there as well. Um, here in my office I got, I got, uh, one of those devices and apparently she's eavesdropping on us tonight. Um, but yeah, april 27th and 28th, portland Oregon. Um, at Cielo treatment center, sam and I are going to be there. It's going to be here in about a week. We're going to be descending on the city of Portland and training some people who want to learn about intervention work and admissions work and just working with families in crisis.
Speaker 2:
It's the first one we've had out on the West Coast and I'm looking forward to it. Looking forward to it. It's really not my stomping grounds out there, that's yours.
Speaker 1:
It is. It is and and you know, just to prepare you, portland's a little bit of a of a different uh universe than than what you might be used to. Um, I think that, uh, let's just put it this way I look forward to seeing some of your reactions as we, as we, are in and around Portland this next weekend. It's going to be fun to just kind of watch you be in Portland.
Speaker 2:
So we may. This is like little Myers-Gosling, or what is it country, myers-gosling city.
Speaker 1:
Something like that. Something like that. It's an experience.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I can't wait. I've heard a lot about it.
Speaker 2:
You know you got to remember now I sobered up in Austin, texas, and Austin is the most I say liberal city in the South. I have seen some things and it really opened my eyes to a lot I'm so grateful for because I realized that through my addiction and living where I lived I traveled some but I still had a lot of belief systems that kept me in a know and sobering up in a city or an area with a bunch of different people from different backgrounds and experience, and all that Really opened my eyes and awakened you know an openness to other things.
Speaker 2:
you know if that makes any sense, it does. I'm trying to be very delicate here in what I say.
Speaker 1:
No, no, no, you're good. I mean the thing that that I have the hardest time with when I go to Portland and I'm there all the time for work. And you know we're not, I don't live, but you know, a couple hours from Portland but everybody there rides bikes on purpose and I've never quite understood that, because where I come from, you ride a bike because you've lost your driver's license. You know a bike is a penalty, but people in Portland like to ride bikes for fun, as just a mode of transportation, and that never. That never really made sense to me. I'm always worried. I'm always worried I'm going to run somebody over.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, when where I'm from, if you're riding a bicycle, you got a DUI Exactly, multiple DUIs, Multiple, exactly. Yeah, that's fun, that is funny.
Speaker 1:
Well, it'll be nice to see you in person and hopefully the next episode we record we'll be sitting in a hotel room together doing another one, just like we did back in January.
Speaker 2:
Most definitely. Yeah, I look forward to it. Man, it's always nice to to work with you and be face to face with you and get out and train some people. It is a good time. And I was telling him tonight cause, you know, everybody at the table was like hey yeah, you're doing those trainings.
Speaker 2:
That's great, that's awesome. We want to get you down here and y'all can do a training here. I mean, we'd love. I said, well, texas is you know? We have a big turnout in Texas every time we're here. And I said, you know, we've never had a bad review of our trainings Never. And I enjoy doing them, you enjoy doing them. We mesh very well and we compliment each other really well and I'm you know I'm tickled to do it Very grateful to have the opportunity to do it.
Speaker 1:
Very grateful to have the opportunity. Yeah, and just as a side note, if you happen to see Rob Park at the get together tomorrow, talk to him about, because he had asked about hosting one of our trainings this year at Luna there in Houston. So if you happen to run into him, let him know that we'd love to have him host us and see how many people we can get to come out for that one.
Speaker 2:
Sure, absolutely will. Before we get started, remember intervention on call. It's where not every family needs an intervention, but every single family that's dealing with someone that's struggling with deep emotional pain that's resulting in addictions in some way, shape, form or fashion. Families need guidance and we I do, we develop this to you know enable families to get on-demand sessions with intervention professionals that aren't there to sell you an intervention or sell you a treatment program. We're there to just give you guidance in the hour and what you need in the situation that you face. It's I just's, it's a good thing. I believe it's the best thing to hit addiction treatment since, um, since, um, hell, I don't know. I was going to say sliced bread, but sliced bread didn't hit addiction treatment.
Speaker 1:
So I think it takes away a lot of the fear and the intimidation from the conversation for families.
Speaker 1:
You know, kind of like what we're trying to do with with this podcast is just really take away some of the mystery and take away some of the fear from the conversation, because families even tonight I was doing the friends and family Thursday night call just before you and I hopped on here tonight and we had somebody new on the session tonight.
Speaker 1:
I had a few, but one in particular just really felt like her family wasn't going to really want to jump in and do an intervention because of this preconceived idea of what they felt like an intervention was going to be that was just going to be a lot of conflict and that it would just kind of quickly spiral out of control if the family tried to get together and do this, spiral out of control if the family tried to get together and do this. And I think that you know what we do there on intervention on call and prep and families, and even in the Thursday night meetings that we do with friends and families. I think that it just takes away a lot of that mystery and really kind of establishes what an intervention actually is and especially what it's not if it's done well.
Speaker 2:
Well, what is friends and family, man? I mean, we're talking about it, but I don't think we've told anyone that listens to the podcast exactly what you're doing on Thursday nights at 8 o'clock Eastern time.
Speaker 1:
All right, well, I will explain it. Thank you for the segue. There, every Thursday night, 8 pm Eastern, 5 pm Pacific, we do an hour for free, on intervention, on call Anybody who has a loved one in active addiction who's in treatment. We have several families that come on a regular basis whose loved ones are already in treatment and they're just wanting to get some support around boundaries and really kind of talk about okay, what are some of the next steps we need to be looking at how do we keep the jersey wall, as you talked about looking at, how do we keep the? The Jersey wall is as you talked about last week. How do we keep that Jersey wall tight and strong? You know, and and so we we talk with families as a group, but we we talk with families individually for the benefit of the group, about specific circumstances going on so that we can coach them in real time on how to help their loved ones, whether they're in treatment or prior to going to treatment.
Speaker 2:
You know, man, that's really why I started doing podcasts with you. That's why I got on social media to begin with. Not why I got on social media, but why I'm on social media a lot, why I started putting up videos. Because, just like you were saying about this, family had a preconceived idea about what an intervention was.
Speaker 2:
A vast majority of the population has that same idea that it's just going to be this big blow up, that it's confrontational, that it's. You know they're going to storm out and it's all about anger and yelling and screaming and it won't work. They're going to storm out and it's all about anger and yelling and screaming and it won't work. So, really, like, my passion is getting out here and letting people know that it's just not that way and really there's so many professionals that work in behavioral health that don't know what an intervention is and the more we can educate people that you know it doesn't look like someone screaming and yelling. It doesn't even have to look like a professional showing up, but the family can get some guidance to help pull them out of their own weeds. You know, help get them out of their own weeds and give them some strategy, give them a map, give them a destination.
Speaker 2:
Most people that I talk to on an initial session or at their family and friends, or the first call that I said, well, have you? We've been dealing with this a long time? They say, everyone says that we've been dealing with this for years. And I'm like, do you have a place lined up that you would like them to go? And they say no. I said, well, you don't have a destination. You first let's get a destination, because without a destination you're just kind of wandering around. But if we can get a destination, then it's about okay, how do we get there? And then you start plotting a course of what it's supposed to look like and what turn should we do here and where do we exit here and what way do we go? Do we go north, south, east, like you got a destination, then you can build the map to it.
Speaker 1:
That's a great analogy, because if you're telling people, if everybody has a compass, and you say, okay, I want everybody to set your compass to 129 degrees and I want you to chart a course and everybody follow that heading and go at 129 degrees, they may not all get to the same destination because they may be starting out at different points and and it's it's not just about saying, hey, we want to get them to treatment, that I mean you could say that and everybody might say, yeah, okay, let's, let's do that, let's get them to treatment. But unless you have a clear starting point and a heading on how to get there and sometimes somebody to guide you through that, people are going to get separated and lost along the way, even though the heading is the same, the goal is the same. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:
Oh, yeah, absolutely something that I think you and I both have seen, not just with the families we've worked with but with the other providers on the platform that so many families have been able to find a way to get help without ever having to actually go to the expense of hiring somebody like you or me, and you know we can talk about what treatment programs are going to be the good fit. We can talk about which family members like. There's so many different things that we're able to work through with some of these families that just clear the water, that just all of a sudden it's like, okay, now we have a way forward and it's. It's just been, it's a great idea. I'm so glad you came up with it and I'm so glad that I get to be a part of it.
Speaker 2:
Man, I am so grateful you are as well and you know, when you said something very powerful just a moment ago, as you said, that their goal is to get someone to treatment, and that's a, that's a and, and of course I get it because families are in the crisis and they're in the mayhem and they're like Jesus, they would just go to treatment. We'd we'd have some freedom, we'd have some relief, like, just go to treatment, but they get stuck on that nearsighted goal. The result of an intervention, 93% of the time, is they go to treatment, but that's just where it starts. Like you want the family and this is what I press to my families that call and get on sessions with me is like, look, wellness is the goal, family wellness is your target. The stop for that, for one of your loved ones in this family group, is treatment. But it has to go beyond that. It moves beyond treatment, it moves past that. This is a journey. So don't put your eye sight, don't put your crosshair so near sighted as just treatment, because what they'll fall into is well, johnny went to treatment, he's home, let's go back to the way things were, minus the drugs and alcohol. And then the next thing you know, they're so shocked that the drugs and alcohol have made their way back in Right.
Speaker 2:
And in these sessions that we're doing like I had one last night and like 15 minutes in because I'd had a previous session with them this time we incorporated more family members they were able to incorporate more family members because it wasn't a hey, will you be a part of an intervention.
Speaker 2:
It was about, hey, would you get on a call with a professional and let him hear what he has to say and see what we can do? And they were all on board for that. There was no pressure about them feeling like they were being sold an intervention. In fact, I grow to probably greater lengths than I should because at 15 minutes in they're like, yeah, no, we're going to want you to come out, and I'm like, well, you may, but let's investigate this further to see if maybe you really definitely do want me to come out. Let me explain things all the way. Let me show you and explain to you what it would look like if you guys did it on your own, what to look out for, and then see what would happen if you had a professional come out and then you make your decision.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and they made their decision. And that's what I tell families all the time. It's like, let's do this first, and that's what I tell families all the time. It's like let's do this first and then, once you have all the information, then you get to decide, having all the information at your disposal, whether or not you think you can do this yourself or not.
Speaker 2:
Our job is to give the information, not sell anything. I agree, matt. I want to speak on this a little bit because it's really important to me and I hope that it's appropriate. But I'm going to be completely transparent. When I'm historically interventionist, you get a call and you're on the phone with a family for an hour and, as a human being, that's an hour of your time, or an hour and a half of your time, and then maybe another hour phone call and you haven't been compensated for your time, or an hour and a half of your time, and then maybe another hour phone call and you haven't been compensated for your time. So you start feeling a little debt, like, hey, because this is how we feed our families, this is how I pay my bills, this is my living, it's my occupation and that's okay, it's absolutely okay for that. But I get, as a human'm like all right, man, I gotta. I gotta try and close this case and I find myself like it's it falls into somewhat of a salesy and I don't.
Speaker 2:
I didn't like that, I didn't like that.
Speaker 1:
This what do I have to do to get you to drive off the lot today in this beauty right?
Speaker 2:
I mean not like that you know, I know, I know I'm making light of it. But it is like hey, you know, look, you booked an appointment. Let me give you the information Everyone is more relaxed and more it's more productive, absolutely more productive. My families, I've found since sessions on IOC when it comes to intervention day or the rehearsal, they're much more prepared, oh yeah, they're much more engaged. I've seen that too. The fear of intervention is off the table. They're nervous about what's going to happen the unknown, but they're not freaking out come intervention day.
Speaker 2:
They're more engaged, more prepared.
Speaker 1:
And part of our job too, especially in that that rehearsal the night before, is to really infuse the situation with as much confidence and calm energy as we can, because I've experienced that the more anxiety and the more fear people walk into that room with, the more powerful this problem is becoming before anybody opens their mouth.
Speaker 1:
And so if that person who were there to really love in that moment, if they can experience that just in people's behaviors, like I'm glad to be here, I'm really glad to be here and be a part of this with you, without saying a word, just being able to show that in the way that they show up and the way that they're giving that person a hug and there's just this fearlessness to it, it really disarms the majority of that fear of that front end part of the conversation of okay, what's going to happen when they find out this is an intervention? Well, they already know it's so rare that I show up and somebody's like is everybody okay? What's going on? Is somebody in the hospital? Did somebody die? They always know it's an intervention. That's a dead giveaway, exactly. Well, here's the people that I'm closest to in my life and a total stranger that looks like he knows what he's here to talk about. So this is an intervention they always know.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, they know. They know and they have a little fear even beforehand that one's coming. You know, they know.
Speaker 1:
Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean, how many times have you heard a family say you know, hey, they'll, sam, I think they know something's going on. Well, what do you mean? Well, they just told me that if I'm thinking about doing an intervention, I better not. They're going to be really mad at me and it's like that's fantastic, that's awesome. The fact that they're aware that an intervention might be coming tells me that they know exactly that that's what they need. Yep.
Speaker 2:
Definitely need Yep, definitely, definitely, yeah, you know I had one book today for an actual intervention, but they can't do it until May 1st to get everybody together and all which is you know that usually doesn't go out that long.
Speaker 2:
It's usually for me. I want to average about four days time on book time we do the intervention. But they're like, well, we can't do it till May 1st. And I was like, well, that's okay. I mean, as long as you guys aren't concerned, that you know we'll burn the house down or you know that there's she's physically safe or they're physically safe or he's physically safe, then you know we can do that. We'll monitor the situation. We have to jump in quicker. We will, but this time will give us some time for you to communicate with your loved one in a different manner over a period of time. So they'll know that things in the family are changing, that they're going to be more likely to believe you when you approach them on intervention day.
Speaker 1:
When you have a family like that and I have this on a pretty regular basis where they'll say, okay, we want to do this, but we can't do this for a number of days or weeks, how does that change the way you prep a family?
Speaker 2:
I have them. Well, I'll give them the letter format, but I let them know. I said, look, you're more than likely not going to work on this letter until just a couple of days before the intervention, because you're going to be tossing around and really I don't really want you to start the letter right now. I want you to start just being aware of what's going on around, to raise your awareness, make notes. You have plenty of time to make notes and thoughts and put them on paper and then, a couple of days for the intervention, you can compile them and then get your letter and then at the rehearsal, we'll go over it and put it all together in a better way. But I also have them. We all get on a group text, all the members of the team and I. You know, look, I like to get my interventions done. I have some fear sometimes that families will start getting cold feet because the crisis is or the event. The further away you get from the event you know they can be like oh well, you know it's.
Speaker 2:
You know it really wasn't that bad, you know.
Speaker 1:
He really seems like he's doing better.
Speaker 1:
Oh yeah, he's doing great, and the whole reason is because the family's starting to get prepared, they're starting to get organized and all of a sudden, that energy is in the home or wherever the environment is. That person just absorbs that energy and it's like wait a minute, something's going different here. Yeah, they know it, yeah, and so of course, they're going to start showing up differently without saying a word and the family's picking up on that. It's like, wait a minute, he's starting to do a little bit better. I'm like okay, here's why.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, absolutely yeah, I see that all the time yeah, I check in with them every day or have them check in with me, and you know any communication they have, I have them. You know, attempt to use text as as much as they can. I know when they're in the home it it's hard to do that and that's impossible. But you know, if you start feeling yourself getting pulled down a rabbit hole with debate or pulled into some manipulation and you know when it's coming exit the situation for a little bit, say you'll be right back with them, get on the phone with me, back away, let's get some strategy and an effective response.
Speaker 2:
And you know it gives me more live time in action for them to practice what we're going to do with the intervention.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, I I. The only thing that I do differently is that I have them start writing their letters right away, and and the reason is what you are had already said is that I have them start writing their letters right away, and the reason is what you had already said is that I want them engaged in some sort of action. So I also want them prepped early so that, let's say, we're doing this on May 1st. In your situation, you and I both know that the possibility of a crisis is not, it's likely there, you know. That's kind of what got them to the point where they're talking to us in the first place, and so I like to get them prepared early as far as the homework goes and just kind of the nuts and bolts of the intervention, so that in the event that there's a crisis if there's, you know, they get picked up by the, by police, or if they end up in the hospital, or if something happens everybody's ready. All we have to do is change our timeline, and it seems to keep people on track, it seems to kind of focus those thoughts early on in the process, and then it's just about making sure that we kind of keep that momentum going without losing traction, and it will generally.
Speaker 1:
If I start to see them like, well, he's doing better, I'm like, well, three days ago, you sent me a copy of your letter. Why don't you go back and read that and tell me three days ago how things were looking? And? And then let's, let's, let's talk about. Do you remember what you wrote? And? And it's like, in three days, you're changing, your energy starting to shift, and your loved ones picking up on that, and so, of course, they're starting to adapt as well. It's only normal, and so what you're seeing is the results of the work that we're about to do, even though we haven't done it yet.
Speaker 2:
And that is brilliant, matt Brown, very simple but brilliant. We've scrambled to write some letters at some times. I think that I'm really glad I know you. You make me a better interventionist bud. Likewise.
Speaker 1:
Likewise.
Speaker 2:
We complement each other. Well, it seems, we were meant to do this together. We were Absolutely. Way back in the beginning of when we first met, back in 2009. Yeah 2009 or 2010. Somewhere along there.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think it was 2010. No, it was 2009 because it was in Elgin Texas.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I just didn't know if you were there because I entered in 2009. I didn't know if you were in the beginning of the new year or towards the end of the.
Speaker 1:
It was towards the end yeah. I think it was early December.
Speaker 2:
Okay, yeah, 2009, it was, man. I'm so grateful for that time. You know you've been a good friend to me, matt. You know, coming out to to my uh, you traveled all the way across the country to to be with me and and my dad's time of passing and and I'll never forget that. And I really uncomfortable to be honest with you because deep down inside you know, look, I'm a man of freedom and a man of sobriety and I pride myself on seeking God and being at peace and, you know, and being OK with myself and being authentic, and but deep down inside there was a piece of me that felt I didn't deserve that and I know Brene Brown talks about that a lot the shame and feeling unworthy and our value, and that's why I can't wait to hear her tomorrow.
Speaker 1:
Why do you think shame is such a problem, especially for those of us that struggle with mental health or addiction issues?
Speaker 2:
Why do I think shame is such a big issue with mental health or addiction issues?
Speaker 1:
Why do I think shame is such a big it's? It's well, I mean humans, humans in general, but I think it it it manifests differently for those of us that deal with substance abuse or alcohol abuse.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you. Look, my anger can escalate sometimes, but nothing spirals like shame with me. I mean quick, quick and powerful, like it'll. I mean it's like it's like shooting down a plane and it going into it. That's how fast. I can spiral into shame deeply.
Speaker 1:
Well, I don't want to do her any injustices by trying to paraphrase some of the things that she's written, but you know, in know, in her her writings on shame, she talks a lot about which I think she she refers to him as, like the gremlins, the shame gremlins, and, and you know, when she starts to go into that spiral, she kind of describes it. As you know, the gremlins are active and the, the thought processes that surround that and you know, not being good enough and comparing ourselves to other people and and you know, just all of these barriers to I mean, really, because she talks so much about shame and authenticity, I think she really looks at shame as a barrier to authenticity and when we are being authentic, we're really in the least amount of shame and, and I struggle with that all the time, you know, whether it's I'm comparing myself to other people, or trying to to act in a perfectionistic way, or just trying to look cool and be in control, or you know, whatever it is like, it's all a barrier to authenticity and and she does a great job of really explaining how that correlates with shame. And so if, if, for those of you who are listening, if you don't know who Brene Brown is. I would recommend the first book that you pick up of hers be the gifts of imperfection.
Speaker 1:
That book I read it a couple of years ago for the first time and my life has not been the same since. It's a wonderful, wonderful book and it's about a four hour audio book. She, she narrates it herself and that's generally how I will listen to it. But I'll listen to it probably once a quarter just to kind of remind myself of it. And I travel a lot, as do you, and a lot of times when I'm driving around in the car going to and from an intervention or to and from an airport, that's generally when I'll pop in an audio book and she's one of my favorites.
Speaker 2:
Let me ask you something. Matt has putting up video content on social media platforms and catching some hate. You know all the trolls and stuff has that.
Speaker 1:
How has that helped you in your shame or being authentic or your value of yourself? The trap that I fall into is that I look for value in the response that I get to my videos sometimes, and if I don't get the response that I'm looking for, or if I catch some hate, if I let that define my value, I'm in big trouble, just like with anything else anybody's reaction to my life. You know, I can fall into that trap. And if I'm, if I'm seeking approval and that's why I'm doing it or if I recognize like, ooh, it'd be really nice if I got, you know, a lot, of, a lot of response to this video, if a lot of people watch it, or if a lot of people like it or you know, whatever that is, if that's my thought going into it, man, I can get twisted up pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:
Um, if I do it because, hey, you know what this is, this is a thought that's really profound to me right now. This is a thought that I find myself thinking about, and maybe somebody else might get some value out of this too Then then my mindset is different and I can go in there and I can separate myself from the reactions and just say you know what? This is the thought that I have. I'm going to put it out there into the world and let it live on its own.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's really helped me. You know, the more I do and I guess the older I get in, the more it's been a really a trial by fire with with social media and being authentic and being vulnerable and putting yourself out there like that and allowing those creative juices to flow. And then you get the hate. You know, and it's been vital to my growth to get the hate it really has. Now, I'm not inviting hate in, I don't think that. You know, I don't want everybody to go out there and just give me a bunch of shit on social media, but you know it's inevitable.
Speaker 2:
It's going to happen with me, put content out on social media, but it's. It's really helped me Like I don't give two shits what anyone thinks about me most of the time, most of the time now. Right, you know so.
Speaker 1:
Well, I'm like I said, I'm I'm envious that you're going to get a chance to go see her live, get a selfie with her, send it to me, hope, hope, it's fun and, yeah, I'd love to catch up with you next week when we do our session from our do our weekly recording from.
Speaker 2:
You know, the worst thing about traveling for work for me, when I've got an event that I got to wear a button up shirt is I like to travel light. I carry a bag, not a suitcase, and I folded up my good shirt from home and I chunked it into the bag and I know sure as shit that it's going to be completely wrinkled. When I was in Charlotte Airport I stopped by a shirt shop in the airport, saw a lady in there. I said I saw some shirts. They're a little pricey cause they're in the airport. I said look, I tell you what I said.
Speaker 2:
Can you fold this shirt If I buy it? Can you fold it in such a way and put it in something in such a way that I won't have to iron it when I get to my destination? She said absolutely, and this lady was an absolute, probably some ocd stuff, but she was a perfectionist in her shirt folding. I came out of this store with three shirts and a pair of pants, folded perfectly, pulled them out of the bag. I don't have to iron shit. I am completely cool and comfortable and I'm gonna they're still.
Speaker 1:
They're still sitting in your bag waiting for you to wear them in portland, or you get them today and uh in on your way to houston here, she packed, she folded them up, packed them up. I'm gonna look at that brown.
Speaker 2:
I found this go man, I'm not even gonna pack a button-up shirt, I'm just gonna buy one at the airport gonna buy shirts every time you travel, because because man, look, I carry the, the downy fat, you know, wrinkle free. But that, yeah, it works great. But you know, when you really need that, you need that I'm. I can't do that on the road, that's me.
Speaker 1:
I can't, you know well, you just have to stop giving a shit and stop ironing.
Speaker 2:
I don't know when the last time I ironed a shirt was yeah, but you're not showing up anytime that I've been where you are, when you've traveled to me or we've met wherever and you've flown. You don't have wrinkles all in your shirt. Your shit looks like it just came out the dry cleaners.
Speaker 1:
The best I do is I hang it up in the closet the night before when I get in, and and that's that's about all I do. And if it's still wrinkled in the morning, I'll, you know, hang it up in the in the bathroom somewhere while I'm showering with that steamy, you know, the, the steam going on, and hopefully it comes out, but I don't know that I've ever. I'm trying to remember the last time.
Speaker 2:
So there you go. I don't know how I ironed my shirt for you, sam. Thank you. See, I'm undeserving, matt. I don't even know how we got onto that, but thank you.
Speaker 1:
You deserve every bit of it and I'm the one who benefits, I think, more than you do from this friendship. But thank you, sam Dude, I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I'll see you in about a week. Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, man. All right, guys, we'll talk to you again soon. Be well.
Speaker 3:
Thanks again for listening to the party records. If you liked what you heard, please leave us a rating and a review. This helps us get the word out to more people, to learn more or to ask us a question we can answer in a future episode. Please visit us at PartyWreckerscom and remember don't enable addiction ever. On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis. Let's talk again soon.