Overcoming Addiction Challenges as a Family

Do you wonder how to truly support a loved one battling addiction? This episode of the Party Wreckers podcast promises to equip you with some tools and insights you need to make a real difference. We kick things off as we dive into our newly launched virtual family support group, Intervention On Call, which offers a free, solution-focused space for families dealing with addiction. Unlike the unpredictable nature of some Al-Anon meetings, our group is designed to provide immediate, actionable solutions for both newcomers and regulars, ensuring a supportive community for everyone involved.

In the second segment, we're tackling a pressing societal issue: young adults demanding adult privileges without the accepting corresponding responsibilities. This imbalance not only strains family dynamics but also has broader implications for society. We also delve into the open-air fentanyl market in the Pacific Northwest, exploring the complex challenges of decriminalizing substances without a robust treatment infrastructure in place. From there, we touch on presidential debate and frustrations with current leadership, emphasizing the need for a more focused approach to the addiction crisis. We even highlight a notable leader who successfully incorporates the 12 steps into his daily life, providing a refreshing perspective on leadership and recovery.

Lastly, we confront the heartbreaking issue of overdose deaths and the vital role families play in preventing these tragedies. We share a deeply personal story about the overdose of a young friend, illustrating the often-overlooked insanity of addiction. It's crucial for families to overcome their emotional paralysis and take proactive steps, even when it means confronting difficult truths and fear of conflict. By focusing on what needs to be done and taking things one step at a time, families can break down barriers and move forward with interventions that save lives. Join us as we navigate these challenging topics with expertise, compassion, and a touch of humor, offering hope and practical advice for those in need.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Welcome to the Party Wreckers podcast, hosted by professional interventionists Matt Brown and Sam Davis. This is a podcast for families or individuals with loved ones who are struggling with addiction or alcoholism and are reluctant to get the help that they need. We hope to educate and entertain you while removing the fear from the conversation. Stay with us and we'll get you through it. Please welcome the party wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Welcome back everyone. I apologize for my raspy voice. I'm getting over one of those summertime colds and, for whatever reason, every time the weather changes my voice tends to go if it sounds like I'm in puberty again. So 51-year-old man with a voice of a 13-year-old today, so hopefully it doesn't distract people too much, sam, you doing you know, I'm not in puberty anymore that's good, I've missed the summer, cold, glad to hear glad to glad of that.

Speaker 3: 1:11

Sorry you're not feeling well, man, but you sound good. Sound kind of got a little wolf man jack going on or wolf gang, wolf gang jack yeah, hey, how y'all doing today. Sounds exactly like it, exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:26

I can do an impression or two. Not that that's one that I've really like had to go, you know, keep on the forefront of my mind, but when you said the name I remembered I could sound a little bit like it.

Speaker 3: 1:34

No, you pulled it right out, man, you really did Like, just on a snap.

Speaker 2: 1:40

Well, I feel great, like I don't feel badly anymore. It's just my voice that's trying to catch up with the rest of my body. A lot of people would say that was sexy. Well, I mean, hey, I'm not going to deny them that if that's what they want to say.

Speaker 3: 1:56

There's going to be a lot of people out here that like that.

Speaker 2: 1:59

So just roll. Well then, let me add a little bass to my voice and let's sit down and talk. Okay, let me add a little bass to my voice and let's sit down and talk. Yeah, I can't do Barry White, oh, barry White, yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:11

Who's Barry Robinson?

Speaker 2: 2:14

I don't even know who he is. I don't know. He's probably somebody famous that you know better than I do.

Speaker 3: 2:21

It works, though. I got your reference. I'm just flopping things all around here today, that's all right, that's all right.

Speaker 2: 2:30

Well, guys, before we jump into the meat and potatoes of what we're going to talk about today, I want to preface what we're going to say. If you are a family with a loved one or a family member of a loved one who's struggling with addiction, you will probably get your toes stepped on today with what we're going to talk about. It's not malicious no-transcript on Intervention On Call. Every Thursday night for the last I don't know six months, we started doing this back in January.

Speaker 3: 3:20

Yeah, it was your brainchild back in January. Yeah, we launched it. It was actually before January, around the holidays, when you started this and it's a free family support group virtually for any families that just need some coaching or some support from other family members and from the folks that run it. We keep it solution-based because, just like the rooms of AA, na, ca and all these 12-step fellowships, some meetings can be hit or miss. Some pockets of the country are stronger than other ones in the solution A lot of them. You can go to some meetings and there'll be some watered-down middle-of-the-road stuff about just don't drink, no matter what.

Speaker 3: 4:00

Some of the Al-Anon can appear as that they're just griping about their loved one and they don't seem to be in a solution. So I had that with several families that I worked with over the last several months, especially just one. Right after the other was saying well, I've been to Al-Anon. It just seemed like a excuse, my language, a bitch fest. They just seem stuck in a problem. I'm like yeah, well, you know, you got enough alinomy, you'll find a good one, you got to find your tribe, but that's not very helpful when you're you know you're desperate and you need some solution. You know like you needed solution. Lack of power is your dilemma and you needed it yesterday. Bouncing around from meeting to meeting can be frustrating. People can lose steam. So you had this idea of let's put a virtual family support group together and we use our social media outlets to promote it and let people know about it, and they get on on Zoom at 8 o'clock on Thursday evening Eastern time, and sometimes, well, we have 8. Sometimes we have 14.

Speaker 2: 5:02

Yeah, we've had some, some meetings with, you know, close to 20. Um, it's been nice. When the the meetings are are bigger, uh, just because more people get to participate, I think we can help more people. But even for those that don't want to talk, just to listen to some of the feedback we give families on their current situation, can be helpful to those that just want to listen and uh, and we've got some regulars that come back every single week and we've got some new people now joining us every week and I think for those families that number one hey, I don't know if I need an intervention.

Speaker 2: 5:35

I don't know if I want to work with an interventionist. I've heard some pretty negative things about intervention and I'm not sure if this is something I want to. You know, people are telling me that it's something I ought to look into, but I'm not so sure. Come and talk with an interventionist for free on Thursday nights and we will treat this just as best we can as far as you know, giving you direct solutions for direct problems. And, like Sam says, we try to keep it solution based and you know, we want to make sure that if people are going to give us an hour of their time on a Thursday night, that we're going to give them everything we got.

Speaker 3: 6:03

And I think we do that. We'll have several providers that'll be on there at the same time and mix it up a little bit. We do keep it solution-based. It keeps things on track. You know a lot of families and it's not even if they're not even considering an intervention or not at that point yet, or even or even if they've already done one and their loved ones in treatment.

Speaker 3: 6:26

It is good to have some support to where you don't feel like you're alone. Yeah, cause we can have some crazy thoughts, some crazy ideas and to be able to hear somebody express you know that they're going through the same thing and having the same thoughts. It's, it's comforting. You know, last week, man, I was so full of anxiety and just, man, it just came out of nowhere and I'm usually not a guy with anxiety and it just came out of nowhere that day and I just wanted to crawl in the bed and pull the covers up over my head and escape. And I made the decision that whenever I talked to someone that day, I was going to tell them when they say hey, what are you up to? How are you? I was honest. I'm like man, honestly, I'm full of anxiety. I like to crawl into bed has that ever happened to you? And they're like oh yeah, it happens to me. Yeah, it just happened to me the other day.

Speaker 1: 7:10

I talked to you about it, you sure did.

Speaker 3: 7:12

You shared it with me. It happens to you. Everyone around me is losing their mind along with me. Or I'm normal, you know it's nothing to.

Speaker 2: 7:26

Well, and not just to hear that it's happening to other people, but to get some feedback on okay, well, if this is happening to you, how do you deal with it? I mean, that was the next question you asked me. Is, once we found out that we were more more alike than you realized, like, okay, what do you do about it?

Speaker 3: 7:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, you know it's. I have been on the family support groups now, like you said, we've been doing them a while and have seen the growth of some of these families and that's you know. I can see the results in them. If I miss a couple of family groups, you know from work or family or whatever whatever reason, and I come back, plug back in like I can see the growth in these families and these individuals, you know from the two weeks prior.

Speaker 2: 8:18

And the ones that are regulars, the ones that we're seeing that growth, are the ones, typically, whose loved ones. There's a couple of them who have loved ones who are in treatment currently. There's one that that has a son who's who's been out of treatment now for several months and and he's doing really, really well and she's just trying to work on herself right now. And you know we've got a lot of regulars that show up but they've already kind of been through that front-end process and they've been able to provide some great feedback to the families that. You know we can just kind of sit back and let other families talk sometimes because they're they've got that perspective of, yeah, my son was there and my daughter was there, and you know, here, here's how I'm handling it, and they, they get, they get that feedback.

Speaker 3: 9:01

Our best group meetings, I think, are when the families are engaged with each other and not us lecturing or taking up all the time filling space talking. It's when the families take over and are supportive of one another and, just like you said, there's ones that have been a little further down the road and were able to give some good feedback. Yes, you know it works.

Speaker 3: 9:28

Family support groups work. And we're asking you know you're asking your loved one to basically stop breathing air. When you're asking them to put down drugs and alcohol, that's what it's like to them is just, you know, asking them to stop breathing. Then you're asking them to go off to a strange place and do all of this work, engage in 12 steps, go to treatment with a bunch of strangers. You're asking a lot of your loved one that they need to do, rightfully. So you're asking your loved one these things and expecting them to do this and embrace this and take it on full steam, but you won't go to a support group yourself. You're unwilling to do the work yourself. You're unwilling to do the work that you need to do. It's pretty selfish, actually quite selfish, and it's unrealistic.

Speaker 2: 10:20

Well, and that takes us right to the topic that we wanted to talk about on today's episode, and so you know what we're talking about families, maybe not necessarily embracing the solution in the same way that we're asking their loved ones to do. You know, I think both of us in the last week or two have had some experiences where we've identified in the families that we're working with that their loved ones really aren't the ones that who need the most immediate help and, and even though they're the ones in active addiction, it's not even time to address that until we address some of the behaviors within the family. What are you finding on your end? What are some of the experiences that you've had this week or in the last couple of weeks that have kind of brought this to the forefront for you?

Speaker 3: 11:03

kind of brought this to the forefront for you. Well, it's the years of doing this, but more recently, this person that OD'd twice within a week and got a DUI and among the family dynamic like he needs to be somewhere safe. They need to be somewhere getting some work done.

Speaker 1: 11:28

three days ago, four days ago.

Speaker 3: 11:31

But the most critical piece in my eyes at this moment is one of the parents, because they're in some serious delusion and they seem to think based on no experiences, based on no experience, based on no knowledge, based on nothing but a feeling that drove a thought, and that feeling is fear and it's self-centered fear. On top of that, it's all self-centered fear Says that, well, you know he may, can do IOP, they may, can do IOP, may go to a 12 step meeting. They've agreed to that. Go to a 12 step meeting twice a week. I'm like you almost lost your, you almost lost your loved one. Like twice in a week, twice, um, and they got some legal trouble. Like, do you have an experience that shows you that what you're saying is so it's important to go by what are your experiences show you, rather than what your head is telling you.

Speaker 3: 12:37

And I'm seeing far and wide across the board here. Everybody's operating on what their head is telling them, based instead of what their experience has been showing them. And I see a lot of you know I see this all over social media. Well, I just keep praying for my loved one. I just keep praying. That's giving you an out of the action. You know you're giving it up to God and you're saying I'm just praying. It's, you know, I'll be willing to pray. That's the action I'm willing to take, you know, is just say some prayers.

Speaker 2: 13:11

It's time to put some legs to those prayers. And the common denominator, and what I hear you explaining and what I've been experiencing especially recently is is fear. The family doesn't want to confront their own fear around the relationship, around the reaction that the person is going to have. Speaking to that, excuse me, I talked with a family on Monday on intervention, on call. They have a 16 year old and, you know, in most States somebody who's a minor is is not given the same ability to choose as an adult, Although here in the Pacific Northwest, in both Washington and Oregon, the legal age of consent for medical is 14 years old, and so from the time that they're 14 years old they get to make their own medical choices, which means mom and dad have zero influence. They they can't go into a medical appointment with their, their child, unless the child signs a HIPAA release and gives them consent. They can't get in.

Speaker 3: 14:16

Who show me the individual or group of individuals that came up with that idea or were presented with that idea, and they collectively there's a group of people out here that collectively shook their head, yes, and said, oh yeah, you know what? I think that may be a good idea.

Speaker 2: 14:37

Look no further than the webpage for the Oregon state legislature and the Washington state legislature and the office of the governor, who ultimately signed off on that brilliant idea.

Speaker 3: 14:48

I didn't mean to get off on another tangent because you were in the middle of a story. No, no, no.

Speaker 2: 14:53

But it kind of goes to the heart of this is that they're giving young adults the privileges of adulthood without the responsibilities of adulthood, and there's a problem in that. I think that that that falls on the parents to be able to help a child navigate those, those privileges and the responsibilities that are associated with it. Because, you know, one of the things that I hear so often is I have the right. I have the right to privacy. You're not going to come in my room, you're not going to look at my phone, you're not going to, and and you know when, when parents are going onto social media and seeing what they're going through their kids' phones, it's like I have the right.

Speaker 3: 15:32

Okay, when you take your ass out there and get a job and provide your own phone and you make a mortgage payment on this house and you provide groceries into this house and the clothes that are on your back and the shoes that are on your feet and you're fully self-supporting financially based on your own contributions, then you've got some right, right, right.

Speaker 2: 15:56

But but that's young people today, some, some young people. I'm not going to paint everybody in the same brush, but but Grandpa over here talking about. These damn young people today. I tell you what.

Speaker 3: 16:11

All of them, all of them.

Speaker 2: 16:11

I tell you what all of them, all of them, every single damn one.

Speaker 2: 16:13

Get off my lawn but but you know, because we work with a population that tends to be a little bit less agreeable than than most when it comes to to taking feedback and taking responsibility, you know, we, we, we wrestle for that control any way we can get it. And I think when people want to claim some rights but don't want to claim the responsibility that's associated with those rights, we get what we get. Here in the Pacific Northwest you get an open air fentanyl market in downtown Portland where it's like, hey, we're going to decriminalize everything, which honestly is a good idea. I was in favor of decriminalization. I'm not trying to get off on a political tangent here either, but making a you know, a disease of addiction criminal is not the way to go about it. There's prohibition has never solved anything. It's never stemmed the war on drugs, it's never given us an advantage in the war on drugs. It's only made things worse. But when you don't have the infrastructure, like the whole thing about here in Oregon when they decriminalized everything, is that if you get caught in possession of a certain amount of substance, as long as those substances are on the schedule of substances that they're going to do this for, you either have to pay a $100 ticket or you can choose to go get an evaluation for drug and alcohol treatment. Now, in theory, that sounds great. Now, if you get caught twice, there's no more $100 ticket, you're going to get the evaluation.

Speaker 2: 17:49

I called the Oregon department of health two years ago or no year and a half ago and I had asked them like hey, I know that you guys are probably well on your way to getting this established, but I'd love to be involved in training some of the people who are doing these assessments so that we can teach them on on how to get the family involved and how to really get the support system involved, instead of just making this a one-on-one interview with somebody who's compromised, who may not be giving you accurate information. And the guy at the Oregon Department of Health was very honest with me. He said you know what? We don't have anybody doing assessments. Yet this law had been on the books for a year. People were getting tickets written to go and get an assessment. You are now obligated by this date you have to have an assessment done. And there was nobody to do the assessments. So, anyways, back to the 16 year old. We got off on this political tangent but I was going to go further.

Speaker 3: 18:44

Man, I was. I was going to talk about the debate the other night Like we could have gone off on a spill here. Oh, we could, yeah, uh, I didn't even watch it, honestly, Like it was. I was going to talk about the debate the other night Like we could have gone off on a spill here.

Speaker 2: 18:50

Oh, we could. Yeah, I didn't even watch it, Honestly, Like it was. It was just one of those things where, like my mind's made up that I'm not voting for either of those turkeys, and so um I I had no interest in hearing what either either one of them had to say.

Speaker 3: 19:12

Well, I can tell you that they spent more time worried about who can carry what golf bag and how far they can drive and what the handicap is on the golf course, than they did addressing the questions that were brought before them around the addiction crisis that is plaguing this land.

Speaker 2: 19:23

Well, it sounds like the moderator is doing a fantastic job.

Speaker 3: 19:28

They did, the moderators did good, oh really.

Speaker 2: 19:30

Well, even though they went off on those tangents, Well, they, they muted them.

Speaker 3: 19:34

They, you know you had an opportunity to answer the question. They muted the other guy but yeah, I mean, it was their time to talk, so they got to talk and they talked about the golf. They spent more energy, more energy, put more enthusiasm into that than they did of this plague, and this is why neither one of those guys is getting my vote, and that's all I'll say about that.

Speaker 3: 19:54

Man, you know, there's a guy that's 40 years sober that implements the 12 steps into his life every day. There's only one guy out of the three that you hear a lot about. He wasn't up there.

Speaker 2: 20:06

And I'm not saying who I'm voting for, right, I'm not saying, I'm just saying I liked one of those fellows up there more than the than the other, but I wasn't impressed by either one of them. And there's one that is running the 12 steps in his life and out of those three he's the only one that has visited a treatment center the only one. And you know, I know that my life was transformed out of from the 12 steps, right Out of a gutter, and I the the interview on the Sean Ryan show with with Kennedy. He gave a really good interview and actually talks very openly about his addiction and how he got into recovery in that interview. So we'll we'll give a plug to Sean Ryan's podcast, but that that was a good interview. I liked it.

Speaker 3: 21:04

Yeah, it was, I watched that.

Speaker 2: 21:06

So, anyways, back to the 16-year-old. So I'm talking to this family and it's very clear to me that they are really seeing the crisis for what it is. This young man has been in the emergency room three times in the last two months for alcohol poisoning, for cough syrup overdoses. He was delusional and hallucinating because he had drank too much cough syrup overdoses. Like he's, he was delusional and hallucinating because he had drank too much cough syrup. Um, with the intention of, you know, trying to get high. Um, he's going to the grocery store and shoplifting booze, um, and and anytime the family wants to talk to him about getting some help, he erupts just a violent, not physically violent, but verbally. Just lets them have it, won't let them speak. He screams them down and you know they're on the phone or on the video with me going okay. So how do we address this? And, and the first thing I said is why are you afraid of your, of a 16 year old son? What's going on here, what's going on with you guys, that you're so afraid of his reaction? You know, in a very literal way, they were being held hostage by their child and he knew it. He knew exactly because he's got a brother living there in the house with him, an older brother, and he'll joke around with his brother Like I got mom and dad wrapped, they I can get away with anything here, and he's going back to his mom and dad. The older brother is going guys, he knows he's doing this to you. What's what's going on? And as I'm talking to them, just really trying to help them understand, like, guys, you have more authority as parents than you're allowing yourself to have and and as soon as you allow this fear to to to evaporate, all of this problem loses its control in your home. The minute you stop being afraid of it. When you can with love, when you can approach your son and say I love you too much to let you talk to me like this, I love you too much to let you avoid this conversation with me. When you're ready to have this conversation, I'm happy to turn your phone back on. I'm happy to give you the PlayStation back. I'm happy, like all of this stuff needs to go away.

Speaker 2: 23:25

And they were so reluctant to do it. You know, at the end of that conversation they were like so can, can you know? A lot of what you're saying sounds really good. Can you can? Can you just come have this conversation with him? And I said you know I can, but you're not ready for for what comes next.

Speaker 2: 23:43

Because if what comes next, if I'm going to come in and do an intervention, what comes next is some action, and that action doesn't mean anything unless you're behind it. If there's boundaries that need to be put in place. If those boundaries aren't your boundaries, they don't mean anything. Because if I get up and walk out of the house, the things that are wrong are going to go right back to being wrong. They might be right for an hour, we might get his attention for an hour or two hours or five hours, but at the end of that conversation, if he knows I really don't have to make a change here, because I know at the end of the day, as soon as this jackass is out of my living room, I can go back to running the show there's not going to be anything that changes.

Speaker 2: 24:25

And so this is the part that I think when I no-transcript sure how to handle the conflict when it, when it happens and that's what he uses to control the dynamic is immediately, that's his go-to move. Is I'm going to fight with you? The dynamic is immediately. That's his go-to move. Is I'm going to fight with you Physically? No, no, no, he's, he's, I don't think he's. I think that we're, culturally they. They come from a different culture and I think that that culturally, there were some things there that may have gotten in the way that I don't quite understand. I I tried to understand them as best I could, but I think culturally there was a little bit of a barrier there as well.

Speaker 3: 25:33

The only shot we've got at stemming the tide of this mess that we're in with all the overdose deaths. Man, I was in the house the other night and Cody, my youngest son, he said hey man, you remember? I didn't say hey man, he said hey, dad, you remember such and such? I was like, yeah man, yeah, it's like he od'd last night. He didn't say he died, but so I was like, well damn, is he okay? Is he gonna be all right? Is he gonna pull out of it? He's like dad, he okay, is he going to be all right? Is he going to pull out of it? He's like dad, he's dead. Like he OD'd, he died.

Speaker 3: 26:14

This little boy used to play football with Cody and come over to the house, spend the night all the time. You know, he's an adorable little guy. I hadn't seen him in years, but he began to struggle and checked out. So you know, and that's happening everywhere, all over the place, and the only way I see out of it is the families. They just they have to. They have to change. The families have to be educated, they have to.

Speaker 3: 26:38

If there was something going on with my son, I would be on youtube and google and reading and doing everything I can to, at least even before. If I'm too afraid to take action, at least I'm going to educate myself on exactly what is going on. What is going on? What can I do? What do I need to do? I'm just not seeing it. Every interventionist, every coach, everyone that is in our space, should be so freaking busy 10 hours a day, 12 hours a day, that we can't do it. All of the people saying, hey, what do I do, how do we do this, what do we do? And they're not. They had a guy well, I had a family, a guy. A family like this individual has lost limbs like lost limbs. Lost limbs Like lost limbs. No limb Can't point Right, can't even point to the problem because of his actions. And that's the best this guy can bring to the table, that's the best he can muster, given the condition that he's in emotionally and mentally at this point. And they want to just, they want to get his. You know, just want to talk. You know just want to talk. I was like man, they want to get his. You know, this one talk, this one talk, I was like man they don't get like. And it's not rocket science, dude. It's not rocket science. If it was rocket science, I couldn't do it. And look, you're a much smarter man than I am, much more intelligent guy than I am. If it was rocket science, you couldn't do it.

Speaker 3: 28:08

But it's really quite simple. Your loved one is insane. Just call it what it is. It's a level of insanity. And even I see professionals falling into that trap with letters behind their name. So long you need like three or four business cards. So many letters behind their name fall into that trap. Well, they need to be presented with such and such and they need to be be uh, told of this and that, and we can, you know. And then we gotta leave it up to them. Dude, they're fucking insane man and the most insane thing they do, they do sober. It's that simple. It's that simple. They can return to sanity and that's why I'm so open about calling them insane. It's like I know you can return to sanity, I know, but why in the hell are you sitting around waiting on the insanity of your loved one to just go away and they just rouse themselves from their lethargy and assert their power of will, as the literature says right.

Speaker 2: 29:13

Well, it's that fear. It's that fear of number one not knowing how to have that conversation in a way that doesn't invite conflict, or that you know how to handle that when it comes up. But the other thing is just the fear of what if they get mad at me? What if they stop talking to me? What if I create a separation that can't be repaired later on. That's the fear that I run into. More than anything.

Speaker 2: 29:47

That keeps people stuck is I don't want to hurt their feelings and when I talk to families it's like the feelings that people have are the most flexible part of this entire equation. You know, feelings are never permanent, ever. You know I could be offered something that I really don't want one day. And then I go and I have a different experience and all of a sudden that that opportunity looks a't want one day. And then I go and I have a different experience and all of a sudden that that opportunity looks a little bit more attractive. Or how many times have you and I been in interventions where something happened just days or weeks before the intervention, where all of a sudden that person is now going to be more open and receptive because of that experience?

Speaker 2: 30:32

I think families are are oftentimes looking at what are they willing to do versus what do they need to do, and not that we ever want to present this to somebody saying you need to do this, but the needs are going to stay pretty constant. My needs, if I'm in active addiction, my needs are not going to change from one day to the next. My feelings will. I mean, that's what's out of control in the first place, is how I feel and my inability to deal with it. You know, and and. So when families get stuck in this idea of, but they're going to feel bad, they're going to feel ambushed, they're going to feel, you know, criticized there, you know, whatever that is it's like, okay, but the net result could be that their life gets saved and they go on and they actually learn how to manage the things that are unmanageable to them right now, and they get to go out and have a wonderful life and they thank you for it.

Speaker 3: 31:25

I had a lady today that she was like well, man, I don't even know where to look Treatment, I don't know what he's willing to do, treatment Like I don't know what he's willing to do. I said, well, hold up, let's set him to the side right now. Set him completely to the side, because you haven't even approached him and you're already in negotiations with his illness. You haven't even. You haven't even. You're not even in the same house right now. You're not even in the same town, you're in a different town. He came to him and you're already starting to negotiate with the elements.

Speaker 3: 32:00

It's like you find a place that you feel is would be the best fit for your loved one. You ask a lot of questions. I gave her the questions I asked, I said, and set him to the side, pretend he can't feel right now. All he can do is sit there and listen. That's it. That's all he can do. He can't respond, he can't do anything. Set him aside. That's dangerous. It's very dangerous.

Speaker 2: 32:28

Yeah, yeah it is and you and I deal with this all the time where families kind of get into this game of mental chess where they're trying to think, two and three and four moves ahead, well, if I do this, then they're going to say this, and so I'm going to have to approach it this way, and then they're going to do this, and so I'm going to have to do this, and then this is going to happen, and all of a sudden it's like, well, I'm never going to be able to do this.

Speaker 3: 32:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:58

Because they're thinking 10 steps down the really should be happening right now. How do I take this step or who do I need?

Speaker 3: 33:00

to get involved so that I can get this, this accomplished. Yeah, large part of what we do is slowing them down, didn't it Matt? You know, would you agree? Large part of this process that we do is keeping them step by step. I get in too far, I'll be on the phone, and you know they they've hired me to do an intervention, or or know they've hired me to do an intervention, or even before they've hired me to do an intervention, and then talking about well, what are we going to do when he gets out of treatment? Yeah, listen, we're not there yet. You know, I love your enthusiasm, but let's slow down a little bit, step by step.

Speaker 3: 33:33

I got this family that you know they book a session and it's like all right, you're marching orders, I don't say that, but you're like this is all you do for right now. This is your next step. Let's do this, because they'll get carried away, and I get it. I mean, it's all fear driven. I even like to ask families all right, let's explore this fear. He's going to be mad at me. I even like to ask families all right, let's explore this fear. He's going to be mad at me. She's going to be mad at me, they're going to hate me. Okay, if I say this, then they're going to do that. I'm like, well, let's say they do that. What happens? What happens Then what it's always a famous one for me is like the then what, then what? Let's go all the way with it. Then what? It fizzles out. It's like there's no ending, it just fizzles.

Speaker 2: 34:25

And it's just human nature. We want to envision what the worst case scenario is so that we're not crushed if it happens. But those worst case scenarios are very, very rare. But those worst case scenarios are very, very rare because the person that we are really wanting to find, that wonderful, loving, kind, generous, funny person is still in there. No-transcript, and you deserve to be happy. And if you're done being miserable man, we've got a plan that I think you're actually going to be pretty happy with.

Speaker 3: 35:19

Your addiction is not going to be happy with it, but you might be. Yeah, I read a post from a guy Hunter Shepard, I think, is his name. He's a creator on Facebook and he wrote a post about his last day. He said he was in a car with a bunch of other people that did not want to be there but they had nowhere else to go. He was absolutely miserable. He had his last little bit of dope and he spilled that and he said he had scabs all over him, wasn't eating, couldn't think straight and he was not going to go to someone and say, hey, I need help. Now.

Speaker 3: 36:00

I remember being in that place. I remember being at the end of a dead end road, smoking crack and thinking my heart's going to blow up or eating too many pills, and feeling like you're going to fade away, you know, and I'm scared to go to sleep, you know. And away, you know, and I'm scared to go to sleep, you know. And and like just absolute misery, wandering around in the woods at three o'clock in the morning, not knowing where I am or what I was doing, and just feeling completely lost and alone and and knowing that I was losing my mind and still would not go to the door to the family and say, hey, you know what? I think I'm ready to get.

Speaker 3: 36:33

Well, now it just us. It's that way. We need the family to take the reins. We've got to have the family take the reins. And by taking the reins, it doesn't mean you tell them what they need to do. It doesn't mean you tell them what they should do. It means that you educate yourself and get ready for battle. You get trained for battle. You get trained for this journey. You get trained for this journey. You get prepped, you get ready. Just don't wing it. I'm seeing a lot of folks winging it.

Speaker 2: 37:04

Well, excuse me, gosh, my voice keeps cracking. Trust me, I am older than 13. You talked earlier about families who don't get educated. I would rather a family go onto YouTube and Google and learn as much as they can about what their person's going through, even if the sources aren't credible and if the information's not great. I would much rather have a family who comes to me with some ideas that may need to be changed, versus somebody coming and saying I, I know I need to do something, but I don't know what to do and and, furthermore, I don't know if I'm willing to do it.

Speaker 2: 37:44

They don't usually say that, but they'll. They'll show us that in in their inability to take action and and it's, it's tough. It's tough and I know we started out talking about, you know, the possibility of stepping on people's toes today, and I hope it hasn't been as bad as maybe I painted it out to be. But if we've hurt your feelings today, as we've been talking about this, I hope you've listened to this in the spirit of you know we want you to look at this from a different point of view. You know we're not in the business of hurting people's feelings. We're in the business of changing people's minds. I mean, I joke around sometimes with people that you know I'm.

Speaker 2: 38:25

I professionally get paid to get people to do things they don't want to do. You know, and and I say it jokingly, but the reality is is like that starts with the family. Like they know there's a problem. I'm going to ask you to do things you don't want to do, but it's because I want to help and and and if, if families can realize like I'm going to do things that are uncomfortable but the end result may be that my loved one lives and is happy. All the other stuff, all the feelings that people are worried about, those get repaired. Mistakes get made on both sides. Amends need to be made on both sides, but that's the easy part. You can't make an amends to somebody who's passed.

Speaker 2: 39:16

Yeah, and you don't want to be in the position of I wish, I woulda, I wish I woulda yeah yeah, it reminds me of a family that last year I it was a local family here in oregon, I it's. They were close enough that I could actually go and meet with them in person before we did any intervention work and I sat down with them and in that, as we're sitting there in the coffee shop talking, they decided, okay, we're going to, we're going to do this. And this young man had been struggling for 10 years. 10 years They'd been watching the slow decline into what ultimately ended up being a fentanyl addiction. They decided they were going to do something about it. They went home and found him, found him passed. He was dead, you know. And and it's easy to look at that and say, oh well, you know, there's always a reason that we get stuck, yeah, but, but, man, you're right.

Speaker 3: 40:20

Those regrets, some of them you know, I see it, people, I remember you telling me about that one. That was tough, that was a tough one. Yeah, matt, this has been a good show.

Speaker 2: 40:31

Yeah, I hope it's been good for the people that have that have listened to it. I've, I've enjoyed talking about it. I know something sometimes we have to talk about hard things, but, um, hopefully by the next one my voice sounds a little bit more normal. And and uh, yeah, thank you everybody for tuning in and, if you've made it this far, thanks for for listening to my raspy voice this whole time.

Speaker 3: 40:51

And and uh, we'll see you on the next one. Yeah, if you're interested in the family support group, go to interventiononcallcom. Sit there for about five seconds. A pop-up is going to pop up where you can register. You'll get a Zoom link. You can talk if you want to Be quiet, if you want to Show your face or not. It's completely up to you. You are in control. It's a safe place for you to listen, learn and share. And don't forget to follow us all on our social channels.

Speaker 2: 41:22

And we'll see you again next week. Yeah, and I'll put the link for the family page on the IOC website. I'll put that in the show notes if people want to just go in there and click on it.

Speaker 3: 41:29

Yeah, yeah. Hey is our YouTubes and stuff on. There Is our stuff on the website.

Speaker 2: 41:35

Not yet. We're working on getting the videos of our podcast episodes up on the website.

Speaker 3: 41:40

Okay, all right, all right. Well, happy treason day tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 41:46

Absolutely Happy 4th of July everybody.

Speaker 1: 41:52

Thanks again for listening to the Party Wreckers. If you liked what you heard, please leave us a rating and a review. This helps us get the word out to more people, to learn more or to ask us a question we can answer in a future episode. Please visit us at PartyWreckerscom and remember don't enable addiction ever. And remember don't enable addiction ever. On behalf of the Party Wreckers, matt Brown and Sam Davis. Let's talk again soon.