A Wiser Retirement®

222. When should I claim Social Security if I don’t need it?

• Wiser Wealth Management • Episode 222

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When should I claim Social Security if I don't need it? On this episode of A Wiser Retirement™, Casey Smith and Missie Beach, CFP®, CDFA® talk about the best age to claim Social Security, different strategies for claiming it, and the optimal time to take it if you don't necessarily need it.

Related Podcast Episodes:
- Ep 109: Common Social Security Questions Answered

Related YouTube Videos:
- How will retiring early impact my Social Security benefit?
- Common Mistakes to Avoid with Social Security Spousal Benefits

Related Blogs:
- Social Security Benefits for Divorcees after 10 Years of Marriage

Other Links:
- Solving Social Security Calculator

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This podcast was produced by Wiser Wealth Management. Thanks for listening!

Optimizing Social Security Retirement Benefits

Speaker 1

If we delay Social Security to 70, it doesn't mean you're getting less money. It just means that you're getting money from a different source.

Speaker 2

Absolutely. So. Yeah, those early retirement years age 65, 66, you're not going to have that Social Security income, so you're going to see bigger portfolio withdrawals. And so sometimes clients kind of panic when they see those first two years of that cash flow deficit that they need from their portfolio. But we make sure we highlight that and show them like, hey, that's OK, it's a really big number, but that's all in the plan.

Speaker 1

Welcome to a Wiser Retirement Podcast, where we believe the best financial advice should always be conflict-free. I'm your host, Casey Smith, guiding you to financial freedom today. It's my co-host, Missy Beach, the world's best financial planner. Hi, Missy.

Speaker 2

Hey Casey, how are you doing?

Speaker 1

Doing good. Today, we're going to be talking about when to claim Social Security even if you don't need it.

Speaker 3

Not everyone needs it.

Speaker 1

Not everyone. No, a lot of our clients probably don't need it, but, um, and and we'll talk about some other angles too uh, with social security, it's uh sounds like a boring topic, but it actually is a very important decision, um, in your retirement planning, and it's something that you probably should be thinking about, uh, you thinking about a few years prior to retirement. Exactly, and you can change your mind at any point, because any day after 62, you can file for Social Security.

Speaker 2

Absolutely. It's not set in stone.

Speaker 1

You can make it a daily decision if you really want to focus on it that much. I think the biggest takeaway here is it kind of goes back to who you're getting advice from.

Speaker 2

I've always said that the best financial planners encourage their Journal article or maybe it wasn't the journal but sent me an article that he had just completed their delivery meeting and he's like Missy, I just want you to know that I just read an article saying that good financial advisors tell you to do all those things that Wiser just told us to do.

Speaker 1

Right, it's kind of an adageage, has been around for a little while now, but the idea is that all of those things hurt the financial advisor, because most financial advisory firms not just not um, you know, we have we have two different business models, but most financial advisory firms only make money by managing assets and therefore, if you're delaying social security, you're taking more of your own assets. Initially that hurts them. If you pay off debt, that's usually pulling money out of a portfolio or a savings account that otherwise could have gone to them. That hurts them. And if you give money away, that hurts them.

Speaker 1

And so a lot of financial advisors will say things like well, don't pay off your home because your interest rate's really low and we can make more money in the market and on paper. Sometimes that actually is correct, but that's not why it's there. It's there to reduce the withdrawals from the firm and they're just reciting what the corporate Kool-Aid says by default. Now there is math that says if you have money in the IRA and you're going to pay off your house, that you have to pay a lot of income tax. If you have $200,000 and you paid it off all at once, you would pay a one-time higher fee. You could get hit with Irma or something like that on your.

Speaker 3

Medicare. True, yeah.

Maximizing Social Security Benefits

Speaker 1

So there's a lot of things to think about, but just saying that as a blanket statement doesn't really make sense. You could always have a three year, four year, five year pay down target to stay below the EIRMA rates, and then we can kind of dive into why you want to wait till 70. And there's other considerations. So let's talk about longevity.

Speaker 2

So if everyone in your family is living, into their early to late 90s, then you probably wouldn't delay social security Absolutely. But even if they're not, there's nothing to say that you won't, because the studies are coming out now that it's not necessarily your ancestors or your you know route. Because modern medicine, different lifestyles, living, eating, breathing. Modern medicine, different lifestyles, living, eating, breathing, you know the healthy lifestyle can change your path. So I have clients all day long are like I'm not going to live to 95. Forget it, you know. Sign me up for like 80 departure.

Speaker 2

And I'm like that's not really a plan for retirement. You know, we can't pick your end date.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 2

So let's anchor on a long lifetime.

Speaker 1

I usually tell them if they want to use an earlier time frame, they just have to be able to cook and clean, because they'll be coming to live with me.

Speaker 2

Exactly because their money's gone.

Speaker 1

Their money's gone, They'll need a place to stay. I like that. So investment returns versus benefit increase. So maybe we should have started with this. But the, the, if you full retirement age, for most people it's going to be 67 at this point. There's a few people that'd be.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think it's 1960 or later is full retirement age of 67.

Speaker 1

So if you take it before 67, what happens?

Speaker 2

You get it reduced? Yeah, permanently forever.

Speaker 1

Significantly, so you get a smaller amount per month.

Speaker 2

Yes, exactly. So if you take it as early as 62, it can reduce up to 30% of what you could get.

Speaker 1

At 67.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And then what happens if you wait from 67 to 70?

Speaker 2

Ah, Casey Ha ha ha. You set me up Then For the home run, you can get an 8% bump for each year that you wait past your full retirement age up to age 70.

Speaker 1

Plus inflation.

Speaker 2

Yeah, plus the COLA each year.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

So I mean, where else are you going to get 8% Casey?

Speaker 1

Guaranteed 8% plus inflation, so you're almost seeing at least 10% increase each year at this point.

Speaker 2

Yeah, maybe a little more In the recent interest rate environment. Yeah, absolutely oh well.

Speaker 1

Recent interest rate environment. You're closer to 15, 14, 15%.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, it's huge, so 8%.

Speaker 1

Per year.

Speaker 2

Yeah, per year.

Speaker 1

So what some people say is I'm going to take it at age 62 for early retirees, but I don't really need it and I'm going to take that money, I'm going to invest it. I'm going to take it and invest it. They see this, it's mine now. I'm going to invest it. I'm going to take it and invest it. They see this, it's mine now I'm going to invest it and I can make more than what the government can do.

Speaker 2

Well, those are the fearful clients that don't trust the government.

Speaker 1

Or do math.

Speaker 2

Yeah, we're really bad at math, right, and want their money ASAP because they think it's going away and it's not going to be there tomorrow. So, hey, I'll take that 30% haircut. Just I want it now and I want to invest in myself.

Speaker 1

We can come back to that. But I've had people come in with spreadsheets that are very faulty, but they, they say, they say I can invest this money and I and these they use like a crazy return higher than what the average is, like 10% or something like that. But the reality is, um, there's been studies on this and I was hoping I could find one for right before this podcast, and, and it's buried in my email somewhere. Um, it's from a few years ago, but they did the math. It's really boring. I actually read the whole like 40 pages, but um had to read it in segments cause it was like, oh, they're losing me in the details. But the bottom line is, no, you really can't beat. You can't beat the overcoming the penalty Plus in most people who want to do that, especially if they're higher wage earners, because what they often they say is I don't really need it, so I can invest it. Well, that means it's going to get taxed.

Speaker 3

So you have to overcome the tax rate the tax burden.

Speaker 1

So if you're, in 22%, you're going to lose 22% plus at least another 30%. So now you're going to have to beat the government by 50%.

Speaker 2

You're not going to do it.

Speaker 1

You're not going to. Yeah, I mean you'd have to buy. Now you're having to pick single stocks and hoping that you have 50 plus rate of return per year.

Speaker 2

So your volatility.

Speaker 1

No, your risk just went through the roof. So it just doesn't make any sense doing that. Now. If you wait till 67 and say, okay, I'm going to not take the penalty for taking early, not 67, you could still be paying income tax on at least 80% of it. Now you have to compete with maybe a average of 10 to 12% rate of return, so you have to get better than a 10 to 12 per year for the next three years. And that doesn't seem really plausible either. Um, especially cause they don't. They don't hire, they're not asking us to do it, they're asking. They say they can do it themselves. Um or one is I want to just put it in a savings account at 5%, and that doesn't make sense either.

Speaker 2

Well, no 5% versus 8%, right there.

Speaker 1

Plus inflation, so it's 8% plus the cost of living.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So right now Social Security is going up around 3% per year.

Speaker 2

Double digits, yeah, yeah, total.

Speaker 1

So that doesn't really make sense either. So really it comes down to if you don't need it, then just let it go to this max benefit at age 70, and you might need it eventually. And I say that because think beyond yourself. So if you're a husband who maybe in decades past was the highest wage earner and then you're retiring, you take that money at 70, but you don't really need that money, then you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're. You pass away at age 80, but your wife continues to live for another 12 years and she ends up in a nursing home, but you don't have nursing home insurance. That is a great base.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1

For nursing home or even just assisted living. You would more than pay for assisted living just by itself. So it's like an added I don't want to say insurance policy, but it's an added higher pension that supports higher lifestyle down the road, because that pension is still going to increase with cost of living every year.

Speaker 2

Right, you know when I.

Speaker 1

So when you pass away the spouse my point of all this your spouse gets theirs or yours, whichever is higher.

Speaker 2

Exactly.

Speaker 1

So you know she now has, or he has the situation, a higher base to apply and so it helps out in old age.

Speaker 2

Oh, absolutely, and our software really loves that. Oh, definitely. And the difference between that full retirement age benefit and the age 70 benefit typically I've seen in most plans is usually around $10,000 a year by waiting. So that's really impactful. I mean that's in today's dollars.

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 2

Once you start inflating that into the future, it just grows and grows. So that can make a real difference on clients' retirement income. So it really makes a difference to have that higher earning spouse wait to age 70.

Speaker 1

And again, I think our premise in today's podcast is hey, I don't need social security. If that's the case, then you want to delay it as long as you can because you don't have to pay income tax on more income.

Speaker 2

Oh ding ding. That's another thing.

Speaker 1

If you don't need it, don't take it early if you're still working, because you're going to tax all those dollars at a higher rate and, um yeah, you just don't need those dollars, so don't add them and if you do need social security, I think that you have to understand um how you generate income in retirement. So most people and we've talked, we have so many podcasts about this but most people think I'm going to live off of social security and I'm going to pull a little bit from somewhere else, and that's not how we look at it. We look at it as you have a social security option, you have a retirement plan or account option, and then inside that realm, you might have IRA and you might have Roth, and then some people have their own pensions, some people have disability I'm thinking like VA disability- yeah, military.

Speaker 1

So you have all these different income options and you have to optimize when to take which one, and that's what we have to use software for it, because it gets. It can get a little complicated, but it comes down to we generate how. What's the maximum you can live on per month for the rest of your life, adjusted for inflation? Each year we have two, two line items. One's, healthcare we increase at 5% per year. We increase living expense at 2% per year. Or, I'm sorry, care, we increase at five percent per year. We increase living expense at two percent per year, or sorry. Two.

Speaker 1

And a half percent per year? Um, and then if we, if we delay social security to 70 doesn't mean you're getting less money, it just means that you're getting money from a different source absolutely so yeah, those early retirement years, age 65, 66 right you're not going to have that social security income, so you're going to see bigger portfolio withdrawals.

Speaker 2

And so sometimes clients kind of panic when they see those first two years of that cashflow deficit that they need from their portfolio. But we make sure we highlight that and show them like, hey, that's okay, it's a really big number, but that's all in the plan, because you can see then at full retirement age or age 70, when social security comes into the picture, those portfolio withdrawals really drop a lot and that's all in the plan.

Speaker 1

Right, and then actually go back up over time. Yeah, exactly, and we've had a really good 10 years in the market, even with 2022 and COVID and other things, and if you look back at the people that were drawing down assets during that time period, like their assets were for every day- you know, millionaire next door. Their million dollar portfolios are supposed to drop to around 600, 650. And they're nowhere near that. They've done a lot better than what the we've modeled in the future.

Speaker 1

Cause it's just well, our modeling is so conservative too, but it's it's. I think the problem in all this is the lack of understanding of how social security works. The problem in all this is the lack of understanding of how social security works, which, with no education, creates conspiracy theories and fear.

Speaker 2

Right? Well, there's still the whole fear that the system is going to implode too. I mean, we haven't addressed that elephant in the room. I mean because that's the big fear of why people want to take it early too.

Speaker 1

I mean because that's the big fear of why people want to take it early too. 75% of Social Security is funded even in 2033, when the trust fund dries up, so 75% of your Social Security would still be there. The question is, what are they going to do with the remaining 25%? There's actually a website Producer Hadley will add this to our show notes but yeah, there's a calculator done by who's the in the government that does all the budgeting and all that stuff.

Speaker 2

Anyway, it's a foundation, the budgeting office oh yeah, I know what you're talking about.

Speaker 1

Yeah, the name escapes me. Currently Someone's yelling at us right now on the side of the podcast. I know, thank you, thanks for that.

Speaker 2

But basically they have this calculator and it shows you how they can.

Speaker 1

Name escapes me currently someone's yelling at us right now on the podcast thank you, thanks for that, um. But basically they have this calculator and it shows you how they can, how you can solve social security. And what's interesting is, if you go and you say everyone who pays into the system just is going to pay social security, no matter how much they make, that solves most of it, and then you have to do some other things also. What's scary is means testing does solve it also. Ooh, that's not real.

Speaker 2

Our clients don't want to hear that.

Speaker 1

Our clients don't want to hear that, but there's a lot of unique ways that you can come up with on this calculator to solve the problem.

Speaker 2

So means testing, meaning you don't get it If you have assets above a certain level.

Speaker 1

You just wouldn't be allowed to take it. Do you just pay for everybody else's? Yeah, Cause, that's fair. Yeah, I typically wealthy people. I don't think um riot, but that might start. That might start one Follow me. You pay into cause. You remember, when you pay into social security, you're not paying into an account that's just for you, You're, you're paying for someone else.

Speaker 2

You not paying into an account, that's just for you you're.

Speaker 1

You're paying for someone else's problem. You're paying. Well, that's how it all started. Right, we had to start by doing the old age pension fund. There's no fund well, no, there's no fun. Well, there was a fund, but the fun wasn't your money, the fun was the overage yeah and until the the baby boomers have have expired. Uh, we, we have not enough people in the system to pay for the people who are retired.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So it's at some point. It floats back around. But there are ways to solve it. I just don't think any of them are politically popular.

Speaker 2

That's the thing, yeah.

Speaker 1

My thing is they're going to end up solving it in 2032 at midnight. Yes, on December 31st and then then they'll be the hero, even though it's a bad deal for some taxpayers.

Speaker 4

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Speaker 2

Yeah well, half of seniors in America it's their only source of income, so it's not going away.

Social Security and Financial Literacy

Speaker 1

No it's not going to go away. I've only driven this road one time, but there's like a road from like Pine Mountain, Georgia, that goes all the way up to Rome. I'll write the Alabama Georgia line. That is the poorest section I've ever seen.

Speaker 2

Why were you there.

Speaker 1

Because my son played in a golf tournament in Callaway Gardens and then he was going to camp Camp Windshake up at Berry College. I don't know how old he was he's 11. This was probably seven years ago, but we just finished the tournament. I had to drop him off at camp. And I was just looking around like my gosh, this is uh, this is interesting. I don't think I've ever seen anything like this in our country and they're not getting 45 grand a year from social.

Speaker 2

No, they're not, but.

Speaker 1

But the first thing I thought in my mind was this is why social security will never stop because these people would be in food lines oh my god, yeah, all over again so, yeah, if you're listening to this podcast, chances are you don't live in an environment like that. No, uh, but to remember that you're, you're probably a 5% or at least.

Speaker 2

Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1

Yeah, um, so most of the America is not as wealthy as you think and when you live in Metro Atlanta area you know, except for some areas, but the majority you. You just think that you're the poorest person around sometimes, but most of our society is living page, paycheck to paycheck, payment to payment right, we don't live in the real world.

Speaker 1

We're consumers and not savers. But the anyway it's such a political football because you have Democrats and Republicans. I can't remember who says what. I think Democrats accuse Republicans of canceling all these entitlements and Republicans say we have too many entitlements. I think there are a few Republicans that have kind of hit on Social Security. I would say they're super disconnected from reality and they're a minority. Yeah, but I don't know that anybody who's reasonable is trying to cancel Social Security.

Speaker 2

No, well, there was some bill out even a few weeks ago about raising the wage base to 200-some thousand. I mean.

Speaker 1

Yeah, which is reasonable, I think. Why not? Why does it stop at 160? I don't know, I mean, that seems pretty low to me.

Speaker 2

Such an arbitrary number it is Well.

Speaker 1

I think it's adjusted for inflation off of a number a long time ago, from like 40 years ago or something I would say you probably should take it up to 400.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Like the highest tax bracket rate maybe even 600.

Speaker 2

I don't know.

Speaker 1

That's kind of their litmus test. Anyway, If you make more than 400, you're uber wealthy which is crazy.

Speaker 2

According to the president, yeah, nothing will happen to taxpayers less than 400,000.

Speaker 1

Doesn't the president make 400?

Speaker 2

Yeah, somewhere around there yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, maybe, that's why Maybe it's that simple.

Speaker 4

Oh, so he doesn't want it.

Speaker 1

Maybe it's that simple. I doubt anything's ever that that simple, but it kind of makes you wonder I don't think that why did they pick 400 000 that's? It's really strange interesting congress doesn't make 400 000. They think they're around 250 or something like that.

Speaker 2

Maybe three now, but I would love to see a congressman or woman you think the president of the united states?

Speaker 1

I mean making at least 800 000 a year, you would think. I mean they pay for own food and they do get free housing.

Speaker 2

Free housing, yeah, but the last president just donated all of his salary.

Speaker 1

I know, and we can't talk about that.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 1

I think for the first couple of weeks people would reporters were saying, oh, he donated to this organization or this organization, and after the first couple of weeks of Preston's he didn't even cover it anymore.

Speaker 2

I kind of like it being a volunteer position.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

You know there should be no compensation I don't know.

Speaker 1

Then does that make it only for the super rich to be running for office?

Speaker 2

well, you get.

Speaker 1

I like to think lodging, I mean no, no, no, they pay for their own food oh, they do they have to pay.

Speaker 2

They get an invoice for the white house cafeteria well, when, when you come out, I mean you're thoroughly enriched.

Speaker 1

Yeah, no right. One book and you're good, you're good for the most of them.

Speaker 2

So I feel like it's a proving ground and then I don't. Yeah, I don't know. This is not. This is not social security.

Speaker 1

This is not related to social security. I I again, um, the point of the political comments, so I think was around people use it as political football uh, especially the sites that try to get you to subscribe to their newsletter or to buy gold or buy silver, even, uh, bitcoin people, uh, who are selling Bitcoin for high commission. You can just buy the ETF now and avoid all that. But the point is is that, um, they're they're using it to scare people and they're using half truths, yes, but the point is that they're using it to scare people and they're using half-truths.

Speaker 1

Yes, so some of the stuff they say sounds very reasonable, but then there's a whole component to it that doesn't make any sense. Exactly, and that's the part that the delay person can't figure out on their own.

Speaker 2

typically, yeah, so don't let fear delay your social security your social security.

Speaker 1

I feel like financial items like this is a lot like a really long time ago, when they wouldn't allow people to read and read.

Speaker 2

Oh wow, right.

Speaker 1

Yeah, because if you can't read, you're ignorant and you have to listen to the people that can read, and I think financial literacy has a lot to do with that too. If if you don't understand math and numbers, then you can keep pulling the wool over people's eyes and they'll keep buying $29.99 a month items and they'll keep renting their furniture Just crazy stuff like that right?

Speaker 2

Is that why the tax code is so complex?

Speaker 1

They're just trying to keep us in the dark Well, I wouldn't say that necessarily how you generate revenue, and I think the tax code gets complicated because you're trying to protect certain income classes from having too much of a burden right. But certainly just the lack of financial education helps people make really dumb decisions.

Speaker 2

Yeah, exactly, especially like Social Security.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I don't know why Social Security has a lot of information on their website, exactly, especially like social security. Yeah, I don't know why. You know social security has a lot of information on their website. I don't know why they don't encourage people to wait, other than the fact that if they wait, it's more money that the government has to pay out.

Speaker 2

That's why.

Speaker 1

Yeah, cause if you're, if you live long enough, you're, you're, you're. I call it beating the system, which people go. Ooh, yes, I like to beat the system.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

The break even to. Typically it's around 78. Yep. So if you live to age 78, then then you won the government's paying you more money winning for the rest of your life. So one thing we should add here to our conversation, to kind of wrap this up, is health.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, so I think, really the only thing that changes, because you don't know when you're going to die. There's been some terrible articles in AARP over the years in the magazine about when to take social security, but the assumption all comes down to when do you um, when do you retire? I mean, when do you die? And no one knows that answer right. So we assume age 95. So therefore our all of our calculations are be very biased toward waiting as long as possible. But then we realize that, and so then we go back and calculate a break-even, and if you're going to live to be at least 78, then it makes sense that you'd wait till 78.

Speaker 2

Wait till 70.

Speaker 1

Because after eight years you would be beating.

Speaker 2

With that higher benefit, yeah, and then you leave your surviving spouse, the higher benefit.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and that's gonna be so even if you were in poor health and you were the spouse with a higher benefit, it might be better waiting yes to age 70. So you give the surviving spouse the better opportunities right yep, right, yep, absolutely. Lock it in Now if you're both in poor health and no one flips past 75, maybe we take it at full retirement age.

Speaker 2

True.

Speaker 1

But the case of taking it prior to full retirement age is really, really thin.

Speaker 2

That's only if you get a terminal diagnosis and your days are literally numbered.

Speaker 1

diagnosis and your days are literally numbered. Yeah, even then, why?

Speaker 2

Why.

Speaker 1

Why would you take it? Because you're depending on what the spouse's situation is.

Speaker 2

You have to look at the whole the whole, the whole thing.

Speaker 1

So there's just so many components and also you can't read a magazine article, even just listen to this podcast and make your own decision. You need to have data or analytics done just on your situation.

Speaker 2

Yours being a household, husband, wife decision yet never just a single person. Decision Correct, that's key.

Speaker 1

We have other episodes you might be interested in under show notes. Take a look there. Related to social security Also, we have a YouTube channel, a wiser retirement. We just passed over a thousand subscribers, like and subscribe there. That really helps us. We have a one we've linked how will retiring early impact my social security benefit common mistakes to avoid with social security, spousal benefits. And then we have a blog we've linked Social Security benefits for divorcees after 10 years of marriage. Get a little more advanced in our Social Security discussion there. Anyway, thanks for listening and we'll see you guys next week.

Speaker 3

Thanks for listening to a Wiser Retirement Podcast. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. Make sure to subscribe wherever you're listening. That way you don't miss any new episodes. We'd also appreciate if you could leave a rating and review. If you have any questions about anything that was discussed today, head to wiserinvestorcom and reach out.

Speaker 4

This episode was produced by Edward Resendez.

Speaker 3

This podcast is strictly for informational purposes only and is not to be considered as investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any financial products, securities, digital assets or any other investment vehicles or a basis to make any financial decisions. Weiser Wealth Management Incorporated is a registered investment advisor with SEC. The host and or guest may personally own securities, digital assets or other investment vehicles mentioned on this podcast. Neither the host nor guest of the show are compensated for their participation and no referral fees are paid to or received by any host or guest for clients, listeners or similar interests. Investments involve risk and, unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed. Be sure to first consult with a qualified financial advisor, tax professional, insurance professional and or legal professional before implementing any strategy discussed herein. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.