Create Creative Creatives
Create Creative Creatives
Music, NFT's, Web 3 & Creative Gimmicks - Ep:004
From how NFT's will reshape the music industry, How Sydney's lockout law's changed the way artists operate in their city and how as a producer and performer, Swaré is looking to get past the gimmick era of creativity in his songwriting and artistry.
Having to rely on external producers in his early career to now driving the production of his own tunes & being the master of his own soundscape and artistic vision Swaré a music producer and performer from Sydney has spent the last few years of his career, defining himself as an artist. And backing himself more and more through trusting his intuition.
Link to Sware
https://linktr.ee/Sware
Chapters
0:00
INTRO
Who Is Swaré
Baking yourself as an artist
Creating for yourself
Using inspiration
Management + Support
Sydneys Lockout Laws
Create for yourself first
Steal like an artist
Gimmicks in creativity
Going Viral on TikTok
Music, NFTs + Web 3
OUTRO
A computer can make you perfect, but like you lose a lot of soul in that More and more in art and society. I can't help but feel like we're all in this giant rush to get to the gimmick. This could be the drop in a song. Or it could be that big CGI fight scene that's designed to wow people. The latest trend that everyone's hopping on in some social media format and thats not bad all the time. I can't help but feel like getting to this gimmick is robbing us of good storytelling and good artistry. I'm not the only one who thinks this. My guest today is Swaré. He is Sydney's hip, thrusting Port au Prince. He has also gone viral on social media himself. He works at the intersection of music and web3. He educated me a lot on how Nfts could be the future to artists creating really good revenue for themselves. He offers great advice on how to back yourself as an artist, create your art in your own vision, and find your own sound. We cover an enormous amount of topics in our conversation, so if you want to skip ahead to anything, if you fancy there are time codes and chapters in the description below for you to skip ahead to where you want to be. My personal favorite is when we get into that hot topic about getting past this era of the gimmick in creativity that we since we're all good, let's go. First things first. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being a part of this. I think you've been a while since I've seen you. It's been a long time. Thanks for having me. Like just before we sat down, I said, congratulations. This is really cool, man. Congratulations. Do you think it's hard to do so? Well, congratulations to you. You've been quite the artist in development, and now you're just really crushing it since the days when I was pulling up to you with a camera. Yeah, well, man, I'm trying to. I mean, it's. I think it's one of those things it looks maybe more interesting than it is in real life. The reality looks different to the little glimpses. A bit. We'll see. But it's still. Man, it's exciting. It's. Yeah. So you've been a musician under the name of Suarez now. For how long? I'm. I think the first release was in 2017. 17. So since. Then, yeah. I mean, six months before then when I was like, Suarez, the thing. I'm going to do that. So, yeah, it's been how many? Five years? Five, five years? Yeah. Yeah, we don't do math or. Even. Simple math like that. I remember when I was chasing after you with the camera, doing some behind the scenes stuff. You know, you're working with a producer and had people doing the music for you. You've since sort of stepped into that role as well. Yeah. Do you do that from start to finish to get like a solid demo and you sort of get that to mastering and mixing after that? Or do you sort of still get a producer in to do that, like last 10%? Yeah, I think I'm definitely in the early stages. It was like didn't really back myself at all and I was like, This is why I think it could be. And they're like, Yeah, it's alright. And then more or less rip it down and build something else. And I was naive enough to be like, Oh, okay, that's what a producer does. Yeah, but yes. And since then, now it's like much more. My own stuff is still getting producers in, but they're rather than ripping it all down, they're just like adding another coat of paint. Where you get to create your own soundscape and it's more you. Yeah. And it's. It's just more me. Exactly right. I remember, um, just listening to your songs as they've come out over the years. It's kind of going from a very bright pop thing and you kind of experimenting with a bit more of a darker. Mm. So it's like a cyberpunk esque kind of thing at the moment. Even with the soiree, music that I've listened to has always had that electronic element to it. But how have you as an artist and now a producer on top of that, been able to explore the sort of soundscapes? So I guess the identity and the esthetic that you want to create. Yeah, I mean, you know, you're right, the early stuff, it's all super kind of electronica and poppy. But then now, yeah, it's going into a different direction because like, I mean, you're not the same person anymore. And like the things like I'm singing about going out and partying and I don't do that that much anymore. Like, I love it, but like, it doesn't really happen. Yeah, I live in Sydney, but yeah, so now I'm much more like we're about to record some new stuff and a lot more guitars and a lot more like it's still a massive mix, I think. Like it's still there is like a big cyberpunk vibe to it and a real electronic vibe to it. But like I'm influenced by like so much stuff with real instruments and I can't not have that in there as well. Now when I write, I'm not really thinking about ever releasing the music. I'm just kind of like I feel like writing. So I'm going to write and again it will go back into a folder and then I'll dig things out when it's time to release music. Now I got like a bunch of new toys recently. I got like all this kind of these Roland instruments and stuff. So I was like, Man, I got to dig through these. Yeah, but yeah, it's just like kind of whatever I feel. I just don't put pressure on it anymore. Yeah. That's what was the pressure that you were putting on it beforehand? Because you just think like you see you. We live in an age where, you know, you can just scrolling if only to see these really accomplished musicians writing the coolest shit. Yeah. So you're like, Well, I better be that person, but man, like, it's. Like pulling your standards back to being your standards. Yeah, like, like the whole reason I started writing music is because I like music, not because, like, I need it to be something. Yeah. So there's just whenever I feel like I'm. Constantly writing, having all this stuff there, and then if something hits and clicks, that's when you really grab onto it. Yeah, yeah. Totally. Like it's often like you and I'm sure, you know, it's really easy to write an eight part loop like, but it, it's so addictive. Yeah. Yeah. And it's probably like one and one where you go like, this is good. I know this one's good. So I'm kind of like. Sharing, just like, I've got to do something with this title. It's stuck in bars, though, totally. So, like, that's kind of I guess you just quickly like you still you still making a little loops and stuff just to kind of keep production fresh for you. I'll write a song sometimes you know, from start to finish like that could be really detailed or maybe it's just a rough idea and I just kind of stuff it away in a folder somewhere. And then when I'm like, you know, I haven't released music for a while, what have I got? And then you go back and look for a year's worth of projects and you kind of find what what's vibing for the first time ever. And in some more recent songs like The Parts, the same spots, you hear the same parts I was playing and I haven't been able to do that before because I hadn't bothered to learn how to play the instrument. But yeah, I figured if I'm going to be calling myself a musician, I should know how to play it a little bit. And as far as like the theory that you have now, it's all self-taught. What's the avenue that you've got about learning as YouTube videos that you've been watching or even to like the whole circle? If it's not like. Stan, I know how the Circle Office works. Like once every six months. Yeah, for about 10 minutes. Yeah. I'm like, cool, I get it. And then I put it down and it is. And it's gone forever. Yeah, yeah. Theory wise, like, I know. Like a real like my brother will try and tell me about, like, theory and like even my girlfriend would be like, this is how this works because she's a really accomplished jazz musician. So like I'll try and I get little bits and pieces and particularly with a cable that once you can see how it works, I think that was when the penny dropped because you go, Oh, that's a third, that's a fifth, that's a seventh. Then all kind of made sense. But yeah. Is it more about the emotion of the music rather than like the feeling that the chords give you, rather than the fact that like that chord progression should be this way because it's in a blue scale? Well, yeah, totally. And everyone's, you know, people like like I wrote a chord progression this the other day and I was like, you know, this sounds cool to me. And then someone was like, well, that's actually that's kind of boring because it's, it's going one thread or whatever. It was like one, four, six one, it's just ascending. And I was like. So the rocks. So yeah, I'm going into it. Yeah, yeah. So I don't really like I don't get hung up on that. That's it. No purist elements. No. But that said, like theories. I don't know. People say like, oh, I don't want to learn theory because it might like, you know, I don't want it to like constraints just. As purist as being restricted by it. Yeah, exactly. It's like, look, it's, you know, that's like being like, oh, I don't want to read the map. I just want to feel the road. It's like, do you want to know where you going? Like it helps. Like so yeah. Performing live shows and a quite hip thrust when you're on stage as well. When you've been playing shows before, how have you gone about like looking and getting gigs for yourself? Um, well man, fortunately I've had management recently to help find gig so many gigs I'm from We never find. Before we get into the gigs. How did you find management or did management find you? They found me, yeah, yeah. About two years ago now and I got a message from this guy and he was like, I want to represent you. I'd like to. It was like, I wanna have a meeting with you. And I was really not into it at first. I thought it was just some sort of scam. It's like, do what I said to him. I was like, Man, why are you helping me? And he's like, Because I can't make music and you can. And I love music, so I want your music to be out there. I was like, That's interesting that people do that. Like, I can't imagine being so into music, but not just doing it. But once I got over that fear, yeah, he'd been representing me for about two years now. That's fine. And gigs and stuff, which is cool. So yeah, previously it was just me asking to open for people or like fortunately no friends. Like we're both friends with Lamelo boys and that worked out really well. Is it Lamela? It's Lamela. Oh, Lamela. Is way cooler. It was one of us is correct and we're just going to get fired for it. Yeah, I think. Yeah. But meeting those guys was cool and yeah, this is fortunately at the time that I started gigging, there was enough people around being like, Hey, come and open for me or whatever thing. Because remember when we were doing the mix with within nights and hosting all those events, um, for those who don't know the story, um, group of friends, we all kind of were playing gigs and this is right when the lockout laws went right through Sydney and just closed down businesses that couldn't stay open. So it now is therefore they lost all this trade and it was just like, you know, music venue after music venue just closed and closed and closed and close and closed. And so I have two minds of it. First, it sucks that it got rid of so many things totally, but my experience at least was that the gigs that were available weren't very good. Yeah, I also, except I probably wasn't very good when I was looking for these gigs at the same time, but it was like you would approach a venue but you knew how to stage and did like a Tuesday night songwriter's night or something like that. And they were like, Oh yeah, now here's the number of the guy who organizes it, and it's some old dude who was in a rock band years ago. And because I don't play music of his generation, he was like, Oh, put you on first. And it's a ten minute set. It's I used to lug hella gear on public transport and didn't have a car to go. I would go from Cronulla to Manly Train and ferry to play a ten minute gig to get a beer and a pub meal. Wow. Just to be on stage. Yeah, which was stupid and ridiculous, but I think I did that like a bunch of times. That's fun, though. It's fun. And like, you look back on it like, wow, what was I doing? Was like, No, you were like trying to get there. Yeah, that's cool. That's admirable. But it's the fact that, like, the gigs that were available or that were left over, I guess weren't, you know, it was always there was always like this old guard that was like quality checking you to make sure that it fit, you know, how many guitars were in the band. That's not music. This is music. And it seemed to have like a big element of these people who the venues just were like, Oh, you play gigs if you organize the shows. And then they kind of like held the keys to getting you on stage. I feel like that all went away, like the lockout laws came through, and so it was this big reset anyway. And so Mick's a lady. And then the nights that we put on came about because I was like, Oh shit, there's no gigs. You need to do something now. We need to completely take over the entire process to build something so that there's something at least. And that's cool. Like there's a like, that's totally cool. Like it is. Yeah, you're right. It sort of sped everything up and it kind of is something switched off and like the void was there and just a bunch of creative people rushed in to fill that space. And it's so necessary, like, man, even even now, like I don't think the live, live music in this city at least is like people aren't going to it that often, whether it's because the venues are too expensive and you can't pay, you know, even a couple of drinks, that's like, you know, 50 bucks, like, you know, yeah. Like, yeah. It's a lot of young people who want to go see live music, can't see it and like, but it's cool, like the way how inventive they get, like. And I was walking like just in my neighborhood. There was like a warehouse party and these kids are charging ten bucks in the door and, you know, and it's just live music all night. I'm like, this is genius. Yeah. Like, this is what has to happen because that's what kind of gives you hope. You're like, at least someone's doing something. And it doesn't matter what generation comes through, there will always be the next thing. Yeah, but my uncle has stories about when he was in the band touring around and like they had like three cab drivers that they used every weekend and they went, they played like three shows in a row. So it's like Ennerdale Hotel and then they beat bands up to like Coogee Bay. Yeah. And just like drum kits in this guitars and this one all the amp gear and the other taxi and they just drive from spot to spot. And I was like this crazy. Like it was like the eighties in the nineties, but that's how they did it. Just set up, play, go set up, play guitar. And there's like all these different bands that they knew that they would just, you know, tag along with and you'd open for them, they'd open for you. And it's just this big. That's sort of the way that it was then. And then it kind of changed again. And so there's all these different like eras that kind of get through. So it's nice to see, despite the lockdown lockout laws, sorry, that it's kind of never going to be able to stop because people will always want. To do it. People will find a way. Yeah, it does. Like I'm always hearing stories as a few weeks ago about like the eighties and nineties in particular in Sydney sounded pretty cool. Like someone was saying in one night they saw like they saw Cold Chisel at some venue on Parramatta Road. Then they went and saw in excess like at a different venue. I'm like, Man, that's pretty cool. Yeah, like and that's what's, that's a real shame about like those old venues going. But then also that kind of music is gone as well. So those venues were made for that kind of music and maybe it doesn't translate, I don't know. Like it's a. It could be just, I mean, this is just speculation I guess, but it's sort of like they were hoping that that would come back. Maybe it hasn't come back. Yeah, they didn't go. Okay, what's the majority doing now for our business? Let's cater to the majority. Yeah, well, it's. Yeah, it's a, it's a weird time and it feels like since, since those lockout laws like Sydney still hasn't really found its feet like it's still like there's a lot of stuff happening, a little pockets of stuff, but there's no like and maybe that's just what it is, but there's no kind of like this is a city for this kind of music or whatever. Like in the way that Berlin's like techno Sydney is like you'll find pockets of everything and it's kind of obscure. City is one of those funny places where it is an absolute melting pot, though. Like I had another musician, Vinnie on and we were talking about just the way that Sydney is structured for music versus like other cities, and Sydney is so free flowing and it's just a bit of everything can kind of if this is what's happening at this venue, then that's what's happening at that venue tonight because tomorrow night it's going to be something completely different. Yeah. And it's not necessarily like a baked in. Yeah. And that's cool. That's cool. I do mean I almost think like Sydney's too big like. It's a tiny town, but it's also too big. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's, it feels like a big town basically. But like, and that's why I think the blue pockets of stuff are happening because kids would rather or anyone would rather like why would I go to like an hour on the train into the city when we could make something right here at West or, you know, in Newtown or wherever? Like, you know, we can make that's so that's why there's little pockets. I almost end up with these little hubs in the little areas. Totally. And but like you said, those hubs are also like free flowing and changing because you can walk down King Street and hear a punk band and then two doors down, you can hear some weird electronic shit like it's that. So that is cool. I'm kind of like, I'm in two minds about Sydney. Part of me is like, nothing happens here. And I'm like, loads of stuff happens. It's just kind of like it's, it's been pushed so underground, I guess that kind of needs to be underground with it too. Gotcha. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Unless you're paying attention. It could. I guess on the surface, it could really seem like this. Yeah. Musically, it's a dead city, but yeah, I don't think that's the case really. I think it's really easy to think that it's build build it and they will come. And it's not the case that you can't just release music and hope that someone picks it up. It's not like that. Maybe that was the case a long time ago, but it's definitely not now. Yeah. Um, but I also think, like, I put so much pressure on myself at the start to try and sound a certain way. It was like I'm. Chasing after. I lost sleep over it. I was like, I would have to like, you have to sound like this or now you sound too much like that person. Not enough like this person. Like it's there was a real epiphany moment where I was like, Oh, wait, this is my music. It gets to be what I want. Like, and if it sounds, of course, it's going to sound like a little bit different people like that. Yeah, that's. What is everyone stealing everything, which is. Super cool. Like an artist. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, yeah, that was one thing that I. If I could do it again, I'd be like, man, just chill out. Yeah, I just do whatever you want. And even not to remind myself that now sometimes I'm like, Oh, does this sound a lot like this person? And you, you know, people will draw bits and pieces from everything. It's not just like, I want to sound like this person to be like the drums that come into like a weekend song. I love that pattern and that vibe. And then maybe it's just like, I love the way that Frank Ocean does X, Y, Z, and can kind of like pick and choose like little elements of that. But who, who are those people for? You know, like truthfully, it's things like and maybe it's not so obvious on stuff that I've released, but stuff that I'm working on currently. It's like a lot of the weekend stuff. Like I think he's I kind of didn't honestly, I didn't write the weekend that much until Dawn FM came out and I was like, This is a flipping cool. It's kind of become the new Michael Jackson. Totally the new Michael Jackson. Yeah. And I think Dawn FM is like the most kind of like it was always sort of subtle, but now Dawn FM is like I'm, I'm like, yeah, 20, 20. Yeah. But like other influences like is a lot more guitar and some tracks that we're working with and I'm really into the police for that. Yeah. Yeah, I, the police for so many things man. I think Stewart Copeland, the drummer, like so many cool patterns from them that the groove but also the guitar tones, but I'm super into like a lot of soul stuff like Thundercat or Silk Sonic I Silk Sonic a song, man. There's just something about I can't help but yeah. I think whatever. I honestly think that they're trying to remind everyone like this is what music was, and it's not like flashy production. It's just amazing songwriting. And now Lizzo has kind of followed suit as well. Like her new single was like production wise, like, really stripped back. So that's actually what I'm going to try and do is like release some stripped back stuff. I don't really want to Auto-Tune anything either. Um, do the growls and listen to a lot of, um, Fleetwood Mac. Dude. It's just like and I've just been playing it at the top 20 songs in like Spotify. I think like eight of them are now just Fleetwood Mac, just dot it out and it's just it's the way that you can hear the hand stopped cymbals. Yeah. You just hear the growl or the breath in before. It's like all of the human mistake edited out. Things are just left in. Yeah. So that's why it's good. It's funny you said that I was listening to Fleetwood Mac last night, and I forget it was, um. I think it's a song called Chains. Oh, this is. Yeah, it's my favorite one at the moment. This is the way that they take it down, and then they do that and did it. But then like that, it and it just builds but the. Outro the outrageous like a totally different pop. Right that's I was sitting there listening and I was like, I've heard that song a thousand times. Yeah, but I never listen to that song. I heard it. But you haven't listened to exactly that. Yeah. Imagine I in the kitchen, I said to Maddie, I was like, I've never listened to this song before. This is amazing. Like, and that was so cool. But yeah, and, like, just not, not trying to make everything perfect is what I'm really into that idea right now as I listen to Justin Hawkins leads through in the darkness. No, I haven't heard. Okay, well. He's opening me up to something. New here. Okay, so this guy is, you know, the darkness right now. I believe. I think I. Know I'm under a rock with this one. Really? Yeah, I am. Wow. Deeply under the rock with this one. Clearly allows me to rectify this. So so basically he started his own podcast and he just talks about music stuff and he talks about Auto-Tune and production, and he just kind of sold me on the idea that all the mistakes that you make, whether you know, your pitch is slightly off or your timing's a little bit weird, that's you. That's like a computer can make you perfect, but like, you lose a lot of soul in that. One of the things that I've been doing, I've recently really just committed to whenever I have a birthday, I just tell people what vinyl records I want. That's a good idea. And I just want to be like 60 with a room with a vinyl player and just like a ton of records that I've got, forgot my birthdays and I'm like writing like who gave me what is just on the inside of them? And I recently found the J Dilla Donuts. Right? And he had the Ampex and everything is Hand Dance. I believe his process was that he had vinyl records. He would play them in and then he would chop them up manually and sample them everything. And it's so weird and disjointed, but you can feel exactly how and when he's put his hand on the pad to get that thing playing. Yeah. And it's, there's a lot of like the timing. You couldn't quantized it for a lot of things and it's so off but it's so nice to listen to that's like the human mistake era laden totally think that it is. I was listening like Bjork, who's an artist I think is flipping unreal. And she was saying like, this is from the nineties and she was saying that people say, you know, everyone's giving computer music, which is what they were calling it. Computer music has no soul. And she was like, It's on the artist to put the soul into it. But I think we've gone so far the other way by trying to make things as perfect as possible with the auto tuning and the timing that that perfection. Now, it's so perfect that's also soulless. Like it's kind of it's, you know, I'm in a weird, weird mind about. Funny when you hear certain songs and like, like you have all of these, like, kids that come out. And then I just remember when Adele released her Go Easy on Me song. Mm hmm. That's her on a piano, I think. Yeah, right. Somebody plays a, like, a bass drum like that, but that's the three layers of the song. Yeah, but because it's just her and like, the song blew up. Yes, she's a big artist, but because it was her and her voice in it. So you can hear the breath, she can hear it's a saliva in there, but it's just like it's the weird. It's weird that they like the fact that it's just that is what makes it unique now. Yeah. Verses like, oh, this is super polished. How unique is all the work that went into this is like, no, no, this is a stripped back just human emotion and you can hear the emotion in it because she's allowed to have those areas and the quivering of the voice and all this sort of thing. So I think there was, again, sign this just last night's way. This is all coming up. We were listening to I think it was like a Stevie Wonder record or maybe it was Prince or something, had a bunch of stuff on of that kind of era. And I really feel like there was a point in history when before music production got, when music production was still basically just lift moving levels and maybe some arguing when that was the production, the quality of the music was insane, like the, the actual artistry of the music. Then you have to play it and you have to be really, really good. Now I feel like a lot of it is about the quality of the production and not the actual music. And I feel like there's a point when I maybe it was like the seventies or like I feel like it's around the seventies when musicians were so, so good and that still exists now. But like you could hear like a pop song on the radio, like a Stevie Wonder pop song or whatever, and that guy's an incredible musician, and now it's kind of like it's about the production. So maybe the songs are more simple, the parts are more kind of basic, but oh, but listen to that cool little bit. You know, it's so I think now we're kind of shifting back to going like, let's just make good music. Let's not worry about perfect. I feel like a lot of it like you just said, it kind of, it goes from, um, you have a nice, gentle intro and you're trying to get to, I guess it's like the gimmick or like the drop. Mm. Which again having a drop or having little like dynamic elements is great, but when so much of it enters this formulaic element and again it has its place among music and really it's great to just have on in the car or if you're cleaning and he's got yeah but whatever you're doing but you know where's the art in it. Like sometimes when you watch like Bambi or D.J. sets and stuff like that, the artistry is in building everybody up and then jumping in and like having it for that location's great. But then I think the trap that a lot of us get caught in is how do I get to my gimmick? And I've even I'm saying this because I fall into the thing. It's like, Oh, so like you come up with a chorus or something like that and you like write like a really cool, you know, like melody for it on the piano or whatever since you're using, you know, like this would be a great puff of that chorus. But now I'm competing my vocals and the rhythm line or whatever it is. Um, and so it just clashes because, you know, getting there for the sake of the songwriting start getting there because of the gimmick. Yeah, in the songwriting I find that's a really interesting thing that I've caught myself with whenever I've been bedroom producing as well. Maybe that's something to do as well with like being able to, because with a computer you can now visualize your song. Yeah. So you can see this is where I'm trying to get to. So let's just add all the filler I can in to get up to that point. I'm the worst because I'll go ahead before I start anything and I'll go like, right, I'm going to do eight bars of this or like a four beat lead in whatever it's going to be. You map out the song, but then you can't let it go or anything. Kind of like maybe that needs to be a double chorus because it should be, but you're already like, put everything out to leave it and you can throw away a great opportunity to really expand on something. Because I've already put all this, you know, that like click and drag it over here, man. I was like, I've basically so guilty of this. Like, I was been writing songs and I was like, Okay, how long is that? Oh, it's. It's 3 minutes. 20. Better cut it down. Yeah, but, but what did you say? Everything you wanted to say. If you did, then she'll cut it down. But like, don't like, don't fit a formula just because you think you have to. Yeah, there's a bunch of rules that role play and particularly in pop music and I get why it's because, you know that is what that's how we consume music but the. Radio edit but like yeah well how important is the radio edit. Exactly. Yeah. So just yeah, I think we're, I'm just really keen to go back to like just make music and make it sound how you want. Don't be perfect or whatever. Yeah, two minds about to two. It didn't really blow up, but not for the things that I wanted. Yeah, it really, really blew up and I just said some things off the cuff, not really thinking about it, and then woke up to 10,000 actual followers in the day after work. Up to another 10,000. Okay, so just blowing. I'm only sitting around 30. 30 something thousand. Okay. Yeah, not small by any means. No, but like, I don't I don't know, man. Like, I'm, I don't really use it that much anymore. I try and I don't, I try not to look at it because you get stuck for an hour and you're like, Oh, what am I, Tanga? Why do I feel anxious? But yeah, it kind of, um, it definitely helped a little bit. Like it helped, but truthfully, it maybe helped bring a dozen people into my really close fan base. Is that thing about you just need a thousand? True fans? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That now I'm reading stuff. About a hundred true fans. Yeah. Um, with like nfts and all that stuff. But yeah, it looks 30 something thousand, whatever it is. I'm sure people open it and go, That looks credible. Awesome. And maybe that helps to a degree. I'm not sure because I don't know those people are. But more than anything, it's it's helped a few handfuls of people come in and and people who are now there for everything, people who are now kind of their own for every release they're into everything I do that's really, really cool. But the other 29,000, I don't know who they are. So yeah. So you just mention Nfts quickly. You work, um, a lot with blockchain technology and music in Web3. MM. What are your thoughts on this? Because I am incredibly naive to the whole world of nfts. Um, probably dismissive. I'm not going to lie on some things. I don't think it's, I think the proof of concept era is here and it's going to mature into something else and I'm excited for it and I think it's really great technology. But as far as music and Web three go, which is probably where your. Yeah. Where are we heading? Um, I honestly think that we are about to, if, if enough musicians get on board with it, which I think they will because. Well, so LimeWire just exactly. Just jumped on and they've just partnered with Universal Music Group. So like it's huge. They mean like Universal Music Group. We have been working on how to get rid of LimeWire exactly 15, 20 years ago, and now they're doing a big partnership because it's become an NFT platform. Yeah, I mean, it's a bit of a it's a slightly long explanation for why I think it's happening. But basically when things like Napster and Spotify come out, no longer are people collecting music. We are paying for we are paying for the right to listen to someone's music, but we don't own any of that. And one of the cool things about music you would still remember this is buying CDs and like. It's why I do the vinyl so exactly. Well, like that, um, J Dilla thing. I've been looking, I have like five or so records in my head and every time I go buy a JB Hi-Fi or a little record store, I just go hunting. And it's the thrill of finally seeing it. Yeah, yeah, yes. It's 50 to $60 when you buy one, but you found it physically and it's yours and it's yours. Yeah. So that's kind of basically for all the convenience of things like Spotify and music streaming, we have lost music collection for almost 20 years. I don't know when. Well, on a Wednesday, two. Thousand and one, the iPod, something like that. Right. So music collection stopped. There's still, you know, the guys who just collect vinyl and, you know, we have always done that, but we've lost music collection. And I think with artists basically, you know, the the idea that music streaming for a lot of us musicians was like finally the playing fields equal. You and I can both be on a playlist next to Jay-Z or with Jay-Z. That's not how it worked. Like it was still it's still big labels pouring money into the pockets of those people so their artist gets seen first. What Nfts do basically is two things. One, your music now becomes scarce and collectible. Your next single you can release 50 copies as an NFT, and that's it. Only the people who hold them can listen to it. That's cool that it wasn't happening before. Um, and it's still in its infancy. Yeah, but we're going to see, like, it's, what it's going to take is a big artist. It's going to take someone like. Like a, like a frank ocean. Like a frank ocean or a Billie Eilish or someone huge and Super Bowl Z and just saying. Wu-Tang Clan do something similar with one of their records. I sold it for, like, $1,000,000,000. Yeah. Martin Shkreli guy. Yeah. Did the stuff. I think it was like some drug. He, like, owned the rights to it and just stopped selling it hectic, like multi-millionaire evil guy. But he that were doing things like not only keeping it myself, I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what it is is making music collectible again. And I mean, that's really, really cool. And I think, you know, music streaming like it for all its convenience. The artists are the ones that lose. Sure, there's a dozen of them who are superstars and they're doing just fine. But the majority of artists on Spotify aren't making nearly enough money. Yeah, if you could sell your music directly to people, you're not paying Spotify or any distributor for for the right to make no money. Like, Yeah, you sell directly to your fans. It's still in its infancy, but I think that's where it's heading. And also, you know, the cool thing about it is, say you buy my single, that's an NFT. So you might hold that for a bit. And maybe in that NFT, it also it's a thing called sorry, I'm going to get all over the place. All over it. Like a mask. Yes. Goddamn it gets me excited. So the thing about they're talking about like is the cooling utility. So it's like basically built in extras to the NFT. So I could say, look, I'm releasing ten copies of a single and every one of them also doubles as your ticket to any show for life. So as long as you hold the NFT, you've also got my single that you can listen to and it acts as your ticket so you could rock up on the night. It's a show I'm playing. I'd be like, I've got the NFT. Like, Come up, come on in. That's your ticket. Because you're your superfan who has. A blockchain subscription. Yeah, I mean, to. Distill it down massively. Sorry. Yeah, totally. I mean, and Kingsley on did this, they released an album as an NFT and if you, you know, if you bought like the deluxe gold version or whatever, you get a front row ticket to a show when they're playing in your city. That's cool. You don't get that with Spotify and you know, no one's taking the money but them, which I think once enough artists go, Oh, okay, yeah, it's cool. Like, it's, it's really exciting. That's what that there's an interesting element to that as well of like I'm not sure what your career was like, but when I was starting, I was lucky enough to be approached three times at gigs and there's the snake oil salesman of the music industry there. And for two of the three I didn't go with it. MM Actually it was one other opportunity which I just wasn't ready for, and they told me what I needed to do to be ready, and I just never did anything with it, which is just what it was. But the one that I went with it was I still am 100% of the music, but there was so many holes in the bucket. Mm. So, you know, his 100% of the revenue and, and you've got this part of the mechanical royalties percentage disappears here, you've got this part of the streaming is part of the physical this part of the radio. It's a massive hole in the bucket. What comes back to you at the end of the day? Yeah. And so the thing that's great about Web3 is that, you know, whilst you can have your music out in the world and own 100% of it and not have to break off by parts of the pie just so that you can put it in front of people. Yeah. Is massive. And I think one of the things that I wish I knew when I was getting started with music was like knowing that like how to put my associate codes in songs. Yeah, I wasn't told this until I was ready to release like, oh, I don't know. Yeah, he signed it with the royalties. I was like, Oh no, no, no, that's alright, we can do it later. In my head I was like, No, let's pause on this and thank God I did, because knowing to like 100% be the owner of your music, you better to sell 20,000 copies and 100% and sell 20 million copies and only, you know. Yeah. 10% of. It. Well that's it. And like honestly like in I was lucky starting out, I was lucky to make 200 bucks from Spotify streams. But that's, you know, that was a lot of money. As soon as I minted, minted or created some nfts, I sold, um, $150 worth in the first day because people were like, you know, you are. I might not buy nfts, but there's people out there that love music and I love collecting it. And I said to this guy who who bought one, I got in touch with him and I said, Man, thanks so much. It's like there's a $20 for this NFT. And it was like, no worries, man had the first 10 seconds. I loved it. Had to buy it like there's people out there and so and you know, I made what took me years to make from Spotify in the beginning I made it an afternoon. I might if once enough musicians know this, I think streaming is doomed. Hey, and thanks for watching this episode of Create Creative Creatives. If you want to follow Swaré our guest on any of these social platforms, all you want to listen to some of his music. There are links below in the description for you to do just that. And until next time I'm Hayden Buchanan this has been Create Creative Creatives and I will see you next Tuesday.