116. Is it okay to use screens as a reward?

Ever wonder about using screens as a reward for your kids? This week, Caroline poses this hot topic.

We've chatted before about screens in general, but this time, we're focusing on the reward aspect. With so many kids willing to do anything for screen time, it's crucial to understand the potential impact.

Spoiler Alert! Screens aren't our reward of choice! 📵 Tune in to hear why...

And, be sure to check out the upcoming workshop Caroline is doing on disruptive behaviours:
https://webinars.jackhirose.com/course/working-with-oppositional-defiant-and-disruptive-children-and-adolescents-2/

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Transcript

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: This year isn't good for me.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Anything need to be done there.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: my back, then let me try.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Let go, Henry.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Hello! Hello! How are you?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I am a okay cool.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: How are you? Good.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: are you? Yeah. Why, I don't know. You look distracted. Well, I am. Now.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: That's because of well, because of Bell.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: The worst. Why?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Well, just I'm curious as to why they felt the need to send me a bill that was

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: 3 times the normal amount.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Hmm.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: so we'll see.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: That's the phone I got from them sucked and

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: on my doorstep.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Have you always been with Bill

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: since I left teles? Yeah.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Well.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: obviously, how long ago was that, though?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: When did I stop working for Dallas? Oh, was it when you stopped working for Telus? Yeah. Well, I was probably with Telus for a couple more years after that, but

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: was right around the time

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: smartphones were coming out.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: cause I called, and

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I was still on Tellus at the time, and I said, I'm ready to switch to a smartphone. But

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I don't wanna pay an upgrade fee. So if you give me the phone for free, like I would if I went somewhere else.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I'll change my plan and go on a more expensive plan. And blah blah blah. And they refused.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: says, Okay, like. So here's the notes you need to put on my account I'm like, don't call me.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: don't ever call me.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I said, and if the person that calls me calls to try and win me back, I'm like it's gonna be unpleasant for them.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: And sure enough.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: 2 weeks later.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: kind of win back phone call.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I've always just stayed with Dallas. Why, why have you not tried to convince me to change?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Okay, they're all awful. Yeah. I've not had a problem.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I mean, I always have my little flip phone until they told me the system wasn't gonna

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: handle it anymore. But would that be as like, they probably were decommissioning the old systems for everyone. Yeah, they just keep rotating to the new technology. Right?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I think we need to go back to flip phones. Okay.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: my dad used to use a 3 watt bag phone up until they called and said.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: that phone won't work on our network as of this date, and you need to change. We use those in the army. Yep. He used to collect them if he saw one for sale in his pawn shop on his travels. He'd grab one.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: If they went back to flip phone I would get I'd be open to Willow having her own phone.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: They do have flip phones now, but they're smart phone flip phones. Oh, so still the same. Yeah.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: there's one phone. I can't remember the name of it.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: but it's designed so that I don't know if it ever got off the ground. It was a Kickstarter at the time.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: but it was all components. So they basically sell you a tray, and you would pick the pieces of the phone that you wanted in there. So if you just wanted a phone and a camera. And that was it. Those are the 2 chunks. And then you filled in the rest of the blanks. And that was your phone.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: So I'd be okay with that like text

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: camera phone call and Duolingo

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: and do a lingo. Yeah.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: it's right there. It fell apart.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Because what else are you gonna do you gonna for for willow. Oh, yeah, okay.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: the willow.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: And she can just do Duolingo on my phone

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: as she does one day

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: like, I'm like, Oh, these are new words like, why are they making it so hard? Normally they scaffold and fold hard words in with new words. I don't know any of these words I got through the whole unit

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: correctly.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: but it was Gaelic. It was not Spanish. I've been learning Spanish.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Have a good. I figured it out. There you go. It's pretty self-explanatory. Yeah.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: sounded

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: different from words that I was learning.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: No, I mean, I realized pretty quick that it was not Spanish, but

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: still, the pretty good.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: So actually on that note

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: is okay. If we do my topic because this kind of flows into it a little bit.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I was just actually, no.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Okay, go on. Okay.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I was just thinking about like reinforcements systems like

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: house foundations and rebar and stuff. You know, that's not what I mean could be.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: But you know

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: yes.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: So

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: one of the things I was thinking of, I mean, I guess my question is.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: should we be using screens as reinforcement for our children, for doing chores, good behaviors

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: home.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: That might be the softest question you've ever asked me. No, we we've never done it well, we haven't. But these parents who are listening.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: we've well, we kind of have with Tvs. As they got older, right, we would offer up like a specific amount of TV type. And it's always co-watching like we've always had rules. You're never allowed to watch a screen by yourself. So it's co-watching. So it was, if you want to watch an episode of your favorite show tonight. Yeah, you have to not be a jerk for the rest of the day. But it was more of the the privileges and responsibilities. All know you want to come down and watch a show

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: when your when your chores are done, so as soon as they're done I'll know you want versus like you get to earn it. Yeah, no, I think

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: no, I've always struggled with that, because

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: you're essentially, the kid just shuts down after that right? And that was the part that I was never comfortable with when I'd see it

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: right. And the rationalization was always the same. Every single parent.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: They used screens in any capacity as a reward for their kid to do what they get them to do, what they want. It was always well, it's just easier. It's just

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: just easier than the fight. If I don't give it to him, I'll freak out. Okay.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: It's not the kids fault? Right? That's your fault. And this is this is the harshest way to say it. But all those parents out there, and

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: every parent needs to parent in a style that works best for them. I will say that.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: But

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: the choices you make

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: that determine the behavior you're encountering.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: You have to take a long, hard look at that right? If you're rationalizing. The fact that bad behavior occurs because you don't give into something

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: should be be a pretty big hint.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Perhaps she took the wrong path.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I mean, it is hard, because there's not great guidance, and like the research that comes out on how terrible screens are takes like 5 years. Meanwhile, fortnite.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: we'll upgrade every 3 weeks. There's new stuff coming out right. And and so like we just can't. The research can't keep up.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Parents have never been parented before in the digital age. So I think that there's a lot of things going against parents. Nonetheless, not, you know.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: we are definitely making it harder. We are definitely shaping problematic behaviors. But it's it's not just that, right?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: There's a general acceptance of screens everywhere, I know, right? Like, I know, fridges the stole their delusion. Right? And so, yeah, the more parents become

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: accepting of just screens as a way of life, like with a rental car that your parents have when they're in town. Right? It is a big fancy platinum edition expedition. Beautiful thing! It's a beast.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: It it has a faster processing system than my phone. Like I was playing around with that screen.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: It's like a little TV that whips around and does any number of things that you want it to do, and it and my phone would be able to flip screens as fast as this thing does. And that's just

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: that's constantly in your face as you're driving now, right? And.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: parents.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: you're right. They haven't been parented. And at the same time

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: they've been

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: desensitized to screens everywhere. Right?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Think of when we were in the bar scene. Still we you go. Let me know for you, because you, if you stood up to pee at the bar. I would wonder

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: what was going on with you but, Dudes, if you stood up. If you went to the bathroom, you're standing at aeronaut back in the day they have. They had actual TV screens a lot. It's it's more common now. But back then

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: it was a big thing like you'd walk in, and you'd be watching TV while you're standing at the urinal. Oh, really? Oh, full on it was all it was all advertising. It was either, like in the nineties, late nineties. Early, 2 thousands. They started to do it. Yeah, yeah, there's still

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: ads ad print ads are still more common in certain places, right?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: But yeah, it was everywhere like, and you go to be like

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: other place. You go to the bathroom. There's a TV going, something running. No Tvs in any women's bathroom I've ever been in. Well, cause the cost is exponentially bigger. You can put a TV in a general area, and it dudes and 10 dudes will see it when they walk to and from the urinal girls. You need a TV in every stall, unless you're

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: there's a more communal aspect to girls bathrooms which I'm not aware of.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: But

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: it's everywhere, right? Like we've grown up. We transition from no screens to screens everywhere.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Our kids have never known no screens right?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: But we, as parents, are completely desensitized to everywhere you go right everywhere. The gas station pump is a full on screen now with tap and this, and

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: like, it's just.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: it's a losing battle, right?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Well, and that's the thing society is built. I wouldn't say like it's our fault. It's just society has built it such right. And they knew that they knew the psychology.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: how the brain works, how to make it as addicting as possible.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: and that's my thing. So when I look at, should we allow

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: screens

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: to be reinforcement? I I can see why parents would want to. It's easy. There's only 2 things kids don't say shade on. I think I've talked about this before. They don't get sick of money is one, especially when they're older

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: and screens. Those are the only 2 things, any reinforcement system. If parents have ever tried one, they'll know it worked great for a few days. But then kids

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: get sick of it. It doesn't work anymore, because a A or and or like kids are like, well, what's in it for me? Oh, you're not gonna give me a hundred bucks. No, I'm not gonna wash my bathroom floor, or whatever it is, right, I'm not gonna put my dishes away, or right like it's not worth it to me. And so I do see that whereas screens they do like, they're so stimulating they're so engaging. They're so reinforcing that it's kind of like a beauty magic for a lot of kids.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: My fear, though, is, we are.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: They're already so addicting just inherently in and of itself, we are actually making the value of them even more right? Because now we're we're as soon as we restrict like there was research. I can't remember who the researchers were, but they they would have cookies right? And they would tell research participants. Kate, here's all these cookies. Try as many as you want. We're gonna do like taste test, sort of thing like you let me know how many you like.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: But with one group of them they came back and said, oh, there's only a couple of cookies left, so please just make sure you. So they put

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: and not a limit, but like

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: there was scarcity. There is scarcity. Now, right? There's only a few left like it's it's just like.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: blow out sale like we are closing last day, right? 60%. It's just that scarcity where you're not gonna have the opportunity to have more versus the other group like you could have as many cookies as you want. That group liked the cookies rated the cookies like they were like May cookies like not anything great, but they rated them so much better than the other group, even though they're the exact same cookies, it's that scarcity.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: So we are actually increasing the value of screens even more in the like potential addiction, even right? Like, because the brain just wants it even more, because now there's scarcity. And we're just saying this is really hot commodity, right? So we are actually just reinforcing that message as well just through. So I worry about that right at your fingertips. So you don't have to walk, and

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: everybody just lives on a spaceship getting fat and floating around. But everything they want is in front of them on a TV screen.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Yeah, that's where we're heading like, that's an oversimplification. But that we're like all the time, yeah, that's where we're heading, though.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: 100%

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: right

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: like. And what correct me. So we went for a hike today. And we were having a conversation.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: We didn't know the answer, and rather than just continue to discuss it or just move on.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: the kids pulled up their phone to

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: to get the answer.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: We were so deep in the foothills like in the mountains. There was no cell reception.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: but it struck me as just kind of funny that that was their first response. I'll just pull my phone and get the answer.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Like, Do we're in the middle of nowhere, right? And our kids thing. Aren't that bad? They're more screen dependent now than they ever have been, for sure, but

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: not as bad as others, but they're both in their rooms right now, reading right? Yeah, like, they're not. Yeah. Yeah, they're pretty good. But but that's something. I think we've talked about it before. There is no just wondering, yeah, right? Or let's go to a book and look like it's just

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: find the answer. Well, they were appalled when I showed them the encyclopedias at my mom's place. So like, what are those like the encyclopedias? What are they for?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Well, they were Google before Google.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: and you had to update them because information changed.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: and they were just like almost offended, that I was showing them that cause. It was just so archaic, right? But it is like they can, literally, we how many times we've been sitting at the kitchen counter, and we're just having a conversation with somebody else. Yeah, what's the answer to blah?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: And it's right there most of the time.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Google's not having a stroke. But

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: it's it's it's what it like. Everything is too connected. Everything is too

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: immediate. And

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: so no, I don't. I don't like the idea of rewarding kids with more screen time. I think they get enough of it. Enough of it as it is. But I do think.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: yeah, I mean

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: parents themselves. I've never been taught it, but

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: there's enough information out there now, right there is enough of a baseline understanding of what it could potentially do

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: that. Yeah, for any of you out there that are about to have kids or have young kids make the choice now to just

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: shut it out. If there's like.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: yeah, I mean.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: yes.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: there are moments where it would have been great to have a TV to stop the kid from crying or freaking out. But those moments pass right?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: And it's only gonna get worse. And that's it. Right? You, what you're doing is you're delaying the inevitable, and you're building it up to be bigger and bigger. It's almost like

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: like drug tolerance.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: The more you give something to someone. The more they build up a resistance to it, and over time it takes more and more and more.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: It's the same with screen. Time takes more and more and more to hold that temper tantrum at bay right? More and more and more. And so why even start that down that path? So I I,

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: yeah, I'm

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: we've talked about it lots of times. I'm so I grew up a screen kid, right? TV was on all the time, and shows were kind of that was mom and dad's thing at night. Right?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: But yeah, no, I'm cool, like, I, I don't even really watch TV that much with you guys anymore. Right? Like, you'll go down and watch with the girls. And I rarely come down and watch. Well, it's not even TV. I mean, it's the gaming really right? But I think, and it's okay, like, yeah, we had. I had my Tuesday night quantum leap and my Sunday night, Dolly Parton, Kenny Rogers special. And and, you know, like Saturday morning, I knew I could watch cartoons

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: when our chores were done, and so those just like how we've got it set up, like all know you want to. It's the privilege and responsibility. But I'm not using it as an additional reinforcement. I like going downstairs.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Let's go hang out. We'll go watch Brooklyn 9, 9

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: as soon as these things are done right, and as we're getting into the like, we still have a little bit before summer, but as we get into summer

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: they know they need to do something outside something. Physical reading is never a problem for us but for kids who maybe don't like reading. So those other important developmental things. And then screens can be part of your day. But it shouldn't be. But depending on the age like baby. It's don't give a kid a toddler a screen. It's so bad for their brain. And and I know, like it's parents are like, oh.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I'll just do it so I could go have a shower, but they can just play on their own for a few minutes, right like we have survived, having children

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: for a very long time.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Couple 300,000 years without screens, right? And children have survived us. And the big thing as well is, it's not just like it's not just cell phones. It's

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: you go into a baby store, and any number of things has a screen attached to it. They're potty. Yeah. And now, like mobiles and stuff, or like the chairs that they sit in with, just like it's so bad. The research. So that's one like under 2, it damages their brain development. So for the first 2 years this is our word of advice. Only buy them toys from some flea market where some craggy old dude carved it, and that's what they get. They can chew on it. They can throw it, they can do whatever, and they won't have the attention span of a Nass when they're older.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: But yeah, I don't think like I do see the

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: how easy it is. But

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: for me reinforcement well, and it completely will kill any intrinsic motivation. They're never going to learn any intrinsic motivation as long as screens are there, because screens will always be more reinforcing. It doesn't matter what it is. So for the listener, I know what it means, but for that person out there listing, what does intrinsic mean? Cause? I know I know it, but just your internal motivation and drive right like right now I'm hankering to finish this book, cause I'm

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: driven internally. Nobody's hanging a carrot over my head to go and read that book right like that was one of the most folksy sentences you've ever said anchoring, hanging a carrot. But you're right, though, right there they need to be able to build their own motivations and excitement about stuff, and and that just washes it, and not that they can't be excited about video games, and

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: but everything else is boring at what cost. It's at the expense of everything else. And I would rather say, rein like reinforcement can be great. But I'd rather it be something social, right? Something engaging, that we do. Or, you know, like, I just think that that's

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: yeah. So that's it. I it was.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I'm on board. I'm just so I wish we could just blow up all the screens. And

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: yeah, like, I'm just

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: burnt out with screens. Anything like.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: I'm I'm actually doing a two-day intensive workshop on oppositional, defiant, disruptive behaviors at the end of Odb, I'm okay with that.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Just all this disruptive behaviors and and really, like I, I only talk about screens for about 5, 10 min. But truly the basis of everything is

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: screen screen screen screen screen. I I cause I always think ahead about what questions people are. Gonna ask me, well, what about this? What about that? And I know it's gonna come back down to screens every time every time

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: every time. So yeah.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: anyway.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: thank you. Hey? Maybe I'll put the link for the Od workshop. If people wanna if they're down with odb.

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: is that what you think?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: You know me?

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: Cool

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: anyos

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Dr. Caroline Buzanko: alrighty!