Volunteering with Craig Spencer

One of the greatest ways we can channel our passions for purpose is through volunteering. It’s good for civic society, it’s good for our local clubs, and research tells us that volunteering even increases our sense of wellbeing. 

Today I’m joined around the Warm Table by Craig Spencer – who has volunteered most of his adult life and knows better than most the importance of giving things a go and getting involved. 

As Head of Community Engagement at Bankwest some years ago, he was among those who spearheaded the movement in corporate volunteering and today he manages more than 900 volunteers through his role as Volunteer Manager for St John Ambulance in the Wheatbelt. 

He’s also a Board member of Volunteering WA and Chair of the State Government’s Volunteer Reference Group…. 

 And he’s a volunteer firefighter in his community – which makes him passionate about ensuring each of us has a fire plan for our homes and family and he’ll give us some tips on just how we can do that.

Link to Department of Fire and Emergency Services:
https://www.dfes.wa.gov.au/
https://mybushfireplan.wa.gov.au/

Warm thanks to:
Sponsor: Females Over Forty-five Fitness in Victoria Park
Sound Engineering: Damon Sutton
Music: William A Spence
... and all our generous and inspiring guests around the warm table this season!

Transcript

Sonia Nolan: 0:00

Welcome to My Warm Table. I'm Sonia Nolan and season two of this podcast about passion and purpose is brought to you by Females Over 45 Fitness or FOFF, in Victoria Park.

Introductory Voice Over of Previous Guests: 0:13

My name is Kate Chaney. My name is Bonnie Davies. My name is Madeleine King. My name is Valerio Fantinelli. My name is Lyn Beazley. My name is Alexandra Helen Flanagan Hi, my name is Sharon Todd. My name is Lucy Cooke and I'm the CEO of SpaceDraft. I'm the first Aboriginal female funeral director. CEO and founder of Motion by the Ocean. I'm a psychologist and a professor in psychology at Curtin University. CEO and founder of Lionheart Camp for Kids. Around My Warm Table. Or listening on Sonia Nolan's My Warm Table. Just sharing a yarn with her.

Sonia Nolan: 0:37

One of the greatest ways we can channel our passions for purpose is through volunteering. It's good for civic society, it's good for our local clubs. And research tells us that volunteering even increases our sense of well being. Today I'm joined around the Warm Table by Craig Spencer, who has volunteered most of his adult life and knows better than most the importance of giving things a go and getting involved. As head of community engagement at Bank West some years ago, he was among those who spearheaded the movement in corporate volunteering. And today he manages more than 900 volunteers through his role as volunteer manager for St. John Ambulance in the Wheatbelt. He's also a board member of Volunteering WA and chair of the state governments volunteer Reference Group. And he's a volunteer firefighter in his community, which makes him passionate about ensuring all of us have a fire plan for our homes and family. And he'll give us some tips on just how we can do that. Craig has a long list of honours, including being a distinguished fellow of Leadership WA, an inaugural member of the corporate volunteering council of WA, and much more. But Craig's most recent honour has really made his mum proud, as he was acknowledged in the King's Birthday Honours List for his services to the community and volunteering. So I'm delighted that Craig Spencer OAM is both my friend and my guest around the Warm Table to inspire us with his passion for volunteering. Craig Spencer, it is such a delight to have you around the Warm Table. Welcome.

Craig Spencer: 2:17

Thank you very much, Sonia. Lovely to be here.

Sonia Nolan: 2:19

Yes, it's lovely to reconnect. So Craig, full disclosure, you and I've worked together in a past life. And it's been a lot of fun. And we've got lots of stories to tell. But the story we want to talk about today is volunteering. And that's something that you're really passionate about.

Craig Spencer: 2:36

It is indeed. Yep.

Sonia Nolan: 2:37

And not only passionate about, you've actually, you know, got a bit of elbow grease going on in that space as well.

Craig Spencer: 2:42

I do. Yes, I I've been volunteering most of my adult life in different ways, shapes and forms and reflecting upon that, when you asked me to see if I could come along and sit around your Warm Table, I thought, Look, I'm happy to share some thoughts on that. Because it is something I think it's really important, not just to me, but I think it is something that in our community is such an important part of our community.

Sonia Nolan: 3:06

Part of a civil society isn't that?

Craig Spencer: 3:07

Definitely.

Sonia Nolan: 3:08

Absolutely. So what inspired you to volunteer and how old were you when you first started volunteering?

Craig Spencer: 3:14

A very clever mother. So as a 17 year old, for those listening, I'm a big fellow. And mum realised at an early age that if I didn't have that positive outlet for my...

Sonia Nolan: 3:26

Energy.

Craig Spencer: 3:26

Energy, let's call it that - a 17 year old, I could get in some mischief. So she encouraged me to get into volunteering at an early age and my first real volunteering was in a local state emergency service in New South Wales.

Sonia Nolan: 3:40

Oh, she sent you straight to the pointy stuff,

Craig Spencer: 3:42

Yeah, pretty much, you know, I did like a bit of risk. And, you know, 17 the attraction was more light sirens and playing with big toys like cranes and chainsaws and things like that. But I think I figured out pretty quickly, or what I would now say is that what really motivated me was community service. And, you know, the happiness hormones I think I got from that. But at that age, it was more about you know, getting out and-

Sonia Nolan: 4:08

Playing with big toys.

Craig Spencer: 4:09

Pretry much, let's be honest. So. And I think that that's also helped me understand sometimes people's motivations for being a volunteer can vary. And that's fine. You know, there's lots of different reasons people volunteer, but that's sort of where I kicked it off.

Sonia Nolan: 4:23

And it also shows that volunteering appeals to- lots of different things appeal to different people at different stages of their lives as well. Like, like you said, a 17 year old boy with lots of energy, you know, straight out to the SES, was it?

Craig Spencer: 4:36

Yeah.

Sonia Nolan: 4:36

Yeah to, you know, with a chainsaw and doing really important work. But also, you know, sort of filling that void for you to be able to, you know, channel your energy into something that was, you know, a little bit risky.

Craig Spencer: 4:48

Yeah and look it wasn't really that risky. Maybe we talked up a bit but if I think about some of the things I got to do was the teamwork too. So it was a great bunch of people that are still friends now.

Sonia Nolan: 4:59

And you're still involved with the SES, aren't you?

Craig Spencer: 5:01

No. Well, I was involved in SES New South Wales. But when I popped over to WA, I got involved in the bush fire brigade, because where I lived was, that's what it was.

Sonia Nolan: 5:09

I love how you said you've popped over, you've sort of been here like-

Craig Spencer: 5:12

Oh, 20...25 years. I'm not quite a West Australian. I've only been here 25 years, I only had one child here. So.

Sonia Nolan: 5:21

I'm gonna, I'm going to anoint you West Australian.

Craig Spencer: 5:23

Thank you, I appreciate that. But, you know, for me, you know, as a young fellow, I've got to do some interesting things. So we went to the Newcastle earthquake, the Thredbo landslide, numerous large land search, rescue, flooding, storm, bushfire sort of thing. So it's some really interesting stuff. And you learned some really interesting skills. For me, it was interesting, because my dad got involved in the SES after he retired. And it was interesting when he had sort of talked to me because he'd ring up and say,"Oh, I did a chainsawing course yesterday." And I said, "Oh, yeah, I'm an assessor in that." Right. And he talks about these different courses you've done. And I think he probably connected a bit with me when he was a bit older, because he realised my son's actually got some handy skills. So you know, you certainly learned a lot of different things. And I still use a lot of the skills I learned from them, then now, you know, so I think that's, that's one of the benefits I got out of as well, quite a handy skill set.

Sonia Nolan: 6:22

I think that's a really good point, Craig, because perhaps we don't, we don't give credit to volunteers to actually all the knowledge that they have gotten all the training that they've done. So can you give me a couple of examples? So you've just said like, chainsaw assessor?

Craig Spencer: 6:37

Oh, yeah. I mean, we did change. You know, back in the SES, you did a lot of tree felling. And a lot of it was, you know, damage trees that had fallen on houses, or were about to things like that. So quite a particular skill set, we did some fantastic training courses with the forestry guys, and they are exceptional at this stuff. So they really taught us well. And I remember doing the training course, because you go away for a couple of days camping overnight, and you weren't able to take a seat with you, because one of the last jobs you did was to get a stump of wood in your head to create your own seat out of it. So one of the very technical parts of chainsawing is actually putting the front of the blade and it's really quite dangerous because of kickback and stuff. So as you learn those skills, you you got to see people's creativity coming out as they designed different types of chairs. But what it's left me with is a good skill set and a good respect for chainsaws, great tools, because I've got an orchard. So I use them frequently. But I haven't lost my respect for them. Because I've seen what they can do when they go wrong.

Sonia Nolan: 7:34

Yes, and you haven't lost a limb. Incredibly important.

Craig Spencer: 7:37

Touch wood, knock knock. But it's also for me, I think, you know, there's some of those hard skills. So you know, whether it be four wheel driving, chainsawing, how to use a crane properly, how to lift and, you know, make sure buildings don't collapse on you. But also the soft skills, the leadership stuff, because I think I learned a lot about leadership when you're leading volunteers.

Sonia Nolan: 8:00

It's completely different, isn't it? Because don't need to be there, Craig.

Craig Spencer: 8:03

Uh huh.

Sonia Nolan: 8:04

And they've got other things they could be doing.

Craig Spencer: 8:06

Oh yeah. And I love Australian volunteers. Because I think if you can't provide a good reason to do something to an Aussie volunteer, they're likely to say, "Well, why should I do it?" So I learned very quickly, by having some great leaders and some not so great leaders, but also when I became a leader in that sort of environment. It is cliche to say you can't ask your volunteers to do anything when you could do it yourself. Sometimes, a leader shouldn't be in the in the muck. But other times, it's important to see a leader in that in that muck to notice those things. So I learned a lot. I think that's probably the thing I learned the most from those early years of volunteering. Because when you go into a different environment, you know, corporate career and everything else, I've always taken...imagine you're managing a whole lot of volunteers, how would you go about engaging with them communicating with them to achieve a goal? And I think that that skill set I learned transitions very, very well in the workplace.

Sonia Nolan: 9:04

Yeah, and I think you're right. And I've seen you as a leader Craig and you've got a really, you know, particular style that's so engaging, and that brings people along the journey with you. And and you're absolutely, you know, very approachable and really wanting to know what the, what the minutiae is, as well as okay, what's the strategy and how are we going to get out of this muck.

Craig Spencer: 9:24

Talk me up, keep going, it's great.

Sonia Nolan: 9:25

Yeah, I will, I'll keep going. But Craig, I'd love to know a bit more about some of the volunteering you've done and some of the other skills that you've learned because, you know, you've got a very long career in volunteering.

Craig Spencer: 9:36

So emergency services, I kicked off into that but I think as I matured as well and you know, different circumstances with family, I wasn't able to do as much of that when I had the kids that were younger. I realised I was missing out on my life. So I've often talked about for me, you know, life should be a portfolio of different things. There's work, there's family, there's your own health, there's other things, but I've always found I needed to have a part of that pie graph was serving others because it, you knos, selfishly, it serves me, like it gives me...it fills my cup. So I know when I was head of community engagement at Bank West, it was really a fantastic opportunity to because in a lot of ways the bank, outsource the community engagement strategy to me, which is great. And a lot of what we're doing was identifying ways that we could engage our staff in the bank into different types of community engagement and volunteering. And I got involved in lots of that through there. And I think sometimes where it really, really happened so well, was where we we work with different community organisations, different charities, and we'd say, right, imagine there's no money on the table, because often they come to the bank imagining this money. So we say imagine there's no money, what is he trying to achieve? And often, we could come up with some really creative solutions to support them, where money might be the lubricant, but it wouldn't be the main value and often the value was our staff, volunteering.

Sonia Nolan: 11:06

And are we talking skilled volunteering here? Or are we talking let's get a team and go and paint the refuge? Or are we talking about okay, we've got an IT problem, let's get a couple of our IT people from the organisation to work on the problem and solve it.

Craig Spencer: 11:20

Yeah, look it was both. A lot of the programmes we did were the basic, get out and do manual labour. And I realised early on that, for a lot of the staff we had, that's what appealed to them, because they sat behind a desk all day. So they want to get out and do something tangible. And I think there's something really appealing about being able to go and support an organisation. And see the impact of what you've done straightaway. Now, that's got tactical value, clearly. And I think there's some really smart charities - shout out to probably Food Bank, I think they're the one that really gets- the part of their business runs on corporate volunteer labour. So they don't have to employ those people. And it works really well. But we also certainly did a lot more what we'd call skilled volunteering. And as our programmes matured, we found more and more ways to do that, quite cleverly. And that's where the real value was. There was one particular team that did some fantastic work in the bank on workflow design. So these would be the guys that were nerded up on this stuff. And they look at a, I don't know, like a really complex bank process, like for home loans or something you know about fulfilment. And there'd be 1000 steps in the process. And their job was to try to streamline it for the bank, take a lot of the friction out, take a lot of the cost out. So you know, because the bank was all about high volume transactions.

Sonia Nolan: 12:40

Take all the BS out. The bank stuff out. I know, I've seen the ads.

Craig Spencer: 12:44

Yeah. So they're really good at that. And they were the sort of team that oh, we couldn't imagine how, how we could apply that to a charity, but we've had a lot of charities that had processes that were really clunky. And so they'd spent some time, you know, they bring whatever their process was, and this team would start to work with them on trying to sort of refine it and streamline and automate it. And, and you think, does that make a huge difference, but for some of the charities, whether it was Ronald McDonald House, or whoever it might be, if we could help streamline those sort of things for them, it's a skill set they'd never be able to access anywhere else. So they really valued that. And certainly the volunteers really valued it because they didn't imagine their corporate skill set could be transferable.

Sonia Nolan: 13:30

Yeah and it makes such a difference, such a tangible difference. And although you know, it's not the paint on the wall, but it's actually, you know, a well oiled machine for the organisation to do other things.

Craig Spencer: 13:40

And for me, a lot of that was it was giving our staff the opportunity to do some volunteering, because the way of work is now, you know, 20/30 years ago, people might have had a cradle to grave job, they had job security, they could find ways to volunteer around that, because they didn't have to worry about that. But in the modern working environment, you've got longer commutes, you've got, you know, different work pressures, you've got families where they might be working two or three jobs, you know, to, so there's a different model. So giving them opportunities to volunteer through work, was a real benefit for both the organisation but also I think a lot of the benefit was for the staff and a lot of them then would look to find ways to you know, volunteer and engage further with those organisations. So it was a win/win for them as well.

Sonia Nolan: 14:30

Yeah definitely. And I think there's, you know, is there the gold standard that, you know, some workplaces actually have as part of their offers to their employees, say a couple of days a year paid volunteer days.

Craig Spencer: 14:41

Yeah. And we saw that changing particularly in corporate Perth where we knew that young struggling graduates coming into the big four accounting companies they're asking, right, what's your policies and support in volunteering, and things like that. So it has changed I think that's a good thing. Perth, let's let's call it out, I know this is an international podcast.

Sonia Nolan: 15:05

I think I've got one listener in Scotland somewhere. Yeah.

Craig Spencer: 15:08

Excellent. Well done. One's enough, but Perth is really leading on this in Australia. So I would say to you that WA is seen as probably the leader in mature corporate volunteering programmes, and even I was very fortunate back in 2012, which seems like a long time ago. But I went to London for an International Conference on Volunteering. And I was so looking forward to hearing from a lot of our, a lot of the big players in the UK and the US. But to be honest, they came along, you know, flew out of the ditch, as they say, came along to do presentation, which was, you know, seven slides of how more amazing their organisation was. And then at the end, they kind of said, "Oh, we do a bit of this." And it made me realise that, hey, we're doing really well on this because we're genuinely engaging our workforce in social impact, like it's making a difference for these organisations. And it's introducing some of these people to different ways to volunteer. So I actually think we're doing really well. Well,

Sonia Nolan: 16:05

I would like to actually just say that one of the reasons we're probably doing really well in Perth is people like you, Craig, you know, because you really were one of those pioneers in taking the idea of volunteering from a corporate perspective and implementing a programme which Bankwest at the time when you were there, and I think still is doing incredibly well in this space, is definitely one of the founders of corporate volunteering for WA for Perth. So you know, kudos to you for that.

Craig Spencer: 16:32

Yeah no, look, there was a there was a cohort of us, and John Paulson, big shout out to him when he was at school. And there was Atlas Iron was doing some fantastic work. So well done, Dave, like there was a couple of organisations that the timing was just right, you know, we had the right people that realised it was not just up in here, there could be genuine impact through it.

Sonia Nolan: 16:54

And rubber on the road, because you knew you were a volunteer, are a volunteer, you actually get it, you actually get it.

Craig Spencer: 17:01

So and you know, we had a great day, I remember once with the CEO that just started Bank West and we went and went to a very street level volunteering opportunity. It was through Hope, which was a organisation based in North Perth, they did a barbecue lunch for homeless people. And it was actually- that activity was a bit of a respite for some of the other providers that you know, the soup kitchen at salvos, etc. So they had a day where they knew that everyone could go get lunch somewhere else. So they could deep clean their kitchens and things like that. But they were looking for a corporate partner, their struggle was they had to sort of struggle every month to find someone. Well we went and did it and I invited the CEO of the bank at the time, and he had a great day. I said,"Well, do you want to own this slot? Do you want to do it, do you want to make it out? Because the this really keen for someone just to commit. And you know, if you think about the experience that you've had today, imagine if we could do that with our team every month?" And he's like, "Yeah, let's go." And that's- it wasn't, that wasn't incredibly strategic. It wasn't much of a business case to it. It was, you know, how you're feeling, would you like a whole lot of people to feel the same way? Well, let's have a go. Right. And then- I'm really proud of the fact that I think, I think they did, I think that partnership lasted over nine years. And circumstances have changed for different reasons. But I think, you know, nine years, every month, there was a group of Bank West staff went down and prepared, cooked, served and then shared a meal with a whole lot of the homeless people in in the Perth CBD. And then success for me is when, I remember one of the staff who was in accounting, a very smart young lady said to me that she had walked down William Street one day. And often, if people know the CBD, there's often people that are homeless that are sitting on the street. And she would typically avert her eyes from them. But she saw someone who she recognised because she's shared a meal with him. And so felt comfortable, you know, engaging and saying hello. So that was success for me.

Sonia Nolan: 19:00

And it's interesting. You said cook, serve, and share a meal.

Craig Spencer: 19:05

Share a meal. Yeah.

Sonia Nolan: 19:06

And that idea of sharing a meal is incredibly powerful. And often we can miss that step because we think we're giving, giving, giving, but it's actually meeting people at the human level, which is so incredibly important. And life changing.

Craig Spencer: 19:23

It was a warm table.

Sonia Nolan: 19:24

It was a warm table, wasn't it? Absolutely.

Craig Spencer: 19:27

So some of those things, they sound fairly straightforward and fairly simple. But I know that those are the things that had some of the impacts. And so for me, a lot of those staff were repeat volunteers at that event, and then became more engaged and want to support that charity, which was fantastic. And also they could feel proud of it because they could say, "Well, when I go to work, I get to do this." So that's great.

Sonia Nolan: 19:53

And it's interesting. You also touched on the feeling, you know going back to the CEO coming along and feeling really good about it. You know, there is so much research, which shows that volunteering is actually good for your well being.

Craig Spencer: 20:04

Oh, absolutely. And I know that now like I can think back, you know, it's the certain, you know, endorphins and everything else that it releases, there's certainly that there. And I think I see that today, because I'm in the current job, I've got about 900-odd vollies that I to look after. And they're doing some volunteering, which can be quite challenging. But they get so much from it. And it really fills their their life. And sometimes that can be the chip, it becomes maybe too much of their life. So there's a there's a balance.

Sonia Nolan: 20:35

There's always a balance. Yeah, absolutely. So tell me some of the work you're doing now then, Craig?

Craig Spencer: 20:40

Sure. So my current day job is I'm a regional manager for St. John Ambulance. In our country operations, I look after the Wheatbelt region a region I'm very passionate about because I happen to have a beautiful orchard in the Wheatbelt. So my day job really is we've got a workforce, as I said, there's about 912 volunteers today on today's report. And they're spread across 43...20... about 60 locations, and their job is to provide ambulance service. And so in the vast majority of the Wheatbelt, if you had the worst day of your life, you're probably going to have a Volunteer Fire and Rescue Service, maybe cut you out of the car. And you're definitely going to have a volunteer ambulance officer, provide you some, hopefully, you know, life changing support. It is very challenging in all of our country. So if you think about WA, it's the largest ambulance service jurisdiction in the world, and the vast majority of it is delivered by volunteers, and some of that volunteering, it's not just turning sausages, it's really quite-

Sonia Nolan: 21:47

Hardcore.

Craig Spencer: 21:48

It is hardcore. And the training that those volunteers have also got to commit to, so that, you know, when they do need to put those skills to use, they know how to do it really, really well. There's a lot we ask of them. I reckon I've got a great job, because my job is to try to support those volunteers. And make sure that they feel competent and confident when you know, because I'm asleep when they're getting the jobs. So it's a 24 hour day business. So, you know, they're out there doing some pretty amazing work every day of the week, more on school holidays, you know, like it's just a very challenging model. So yeah, it's a great job. And I'm, I'm lucky, I think because most of the other managers I work with in St. John have all got a very deep clinical background. I'm a bit of a alternative to that. When I started, I think what I brought that was useful was I couldn't speak ambulance, but I could speak corporate fluently. And I could speak volunteer fluently.

Sonia Nolan: 22:50

Yes, different languages.

Craig Spencer: 22:52

So different languages. And I hope that that's been valuable, because I think often I'm trying to translate between what the organisation might be trying to achieve, but then how you sort of translate that into what it means for a volunteer. And I find one of the things that I'm spending a lot of time on explaining to my dear colleagues is volunteers aren't - most of the volunteers I've got run incredibly complex, multimillion dollar businesses with huge capital outlay, because they're farmers, and they're running bloody big farms. So they're not silly people. They're smart, smart people. And so again, if you can't explain something to them, that makes sense, then they're going to challenge you. And that's fantastic.

Sonia Nolan: 23:35

You've got to be really pragmatic.

Craig Spencer: 23:36

Yep. So I think that's for me, you know, we've also got a lot of our paid staff that are out there to support them, particularly with the training, with the clinical training. But the great thing is most of those folks that I've got out there, the paid staff as well, they're there because they love country. And they love the fact that these people turn up to do it, and they don't get paid, you know?

Sonia Nolan: 23:57

It's just seems such a an anomaly. I guess, in a, I don't know, an increasing consumerist world, where you do something for no pay for little external incentives, but it's really an intrinsic reason why you're there. It just seems, you know, out of kilter with the way the modern world is, is going I don't know, is that too cynical?

Craig Spencer: 24:23

No, it's true. And that's kind of what gets me out of bed. Because it's like, doesn't matter how, you know, rubbish my day might be from other things. There's a lot of people that have chosen to do some really challenging volunteering, and they're doing it for free. So I think that's great. And I know, you know, in country the percentage of people that volunteer in the country is higher. It's not because country people are better. It's simply because I think in if you live in a country location if you don't volunteer, then your community doesn't prosper.

Sonia Nolan: 24:53

If it's not for me, then it's not going to be or you know, it's up to me. That's sort of a saying a lot more eloquently than I've just explained.

Craig Spencer: 25:01

I talked to my team. Often it sounds... I'm not, I'm not a competitive person. I'm not driven to be competitive, so to speak. But-

Sonia Nolan: 25:10

No, you're one of the most collaborative people, I know, Craig.

Craig Spencer: 25:13

But I'm very conscious that in a small country town, we are competing in a sentence with all those other volunteer and bulk organisations that want the time of our volunteers. So, you know, like, for me, governance is important. When you're a charity as well, you've got to make sure you've got transparency and good governance. So we've got many committees. But what I want to try to make is being on our substantive committee at St. John, the easiest committee to be on in town. And, you know, for me, one of the things is, a prospective volunteer will smell conflict a mile away and run. So if we've got conflict and substance, which happens when you've got humans, you know, our job is to really try to get on to that when it's a concern, before it becomes a conflict before it becomes a complaint. So a lot of the work that my team does is really, we're more diplomats and peacekeepers than we are, you know, rule keepers, if that makes sense. So, we spend a lot of our time going and meeting with the vollies and try to address any of the concerns that might be happening, because we want it to be a positive experience. We don't want volunteering to be hard work. It's hard enough when they're out there doing the ambulance jobs, let alone just trying to keep a subset of running.

Sonia Nolan: 26:24

So it sounds like an art and a dance.

Craig Spencer: 26:27

Yes, it is very much a bit of that. And I think that's where, you know, we build some good process around some of this stuff. But again, it's based in how humans engage with each other. It's about being respectful. And it's also about acknowledging that the type of work we're asking to do, they didn't volunteer to be the treasurer, but someone's got to be. So let's make being the treasurer really easy. So that's what my regional support team does. Hence why that's why we've got paid staff because one thing I've learned about volunteering is volunteering isn't free.

Sonia Nolan: 27:00

No.

Craig Spencer: 27:01

It's costly to do it well, because there's got to be the infrastructure to support the volunteers. And I think that's where...

Sonia Nolan: 27:08

And if it's done well, it pays itself off in you know, in spades. I want to touch on one more volunteering experience, that you have been intimately involved in, and that's as a firefighter.

Craig Spencer: 27:23

Yes, I've been doing that for quite a while as well. And for me, that was because the community I was living in, which is the beautiful town of Bindoon. You know, we were in a very much a bushfire prone area. So again, if not me, who, right? But again, that group of people, that's a great group of friends. And to be honest, 95% of the time, it's just having fun with some friends, 5% of the time, it's a bit serious.

Sonia Nolan: 27:52

You're downplaying that, Craig.

Craig Spencer: 27:53

No, a couple of times you'll be in the truck, and you know, it's, you go to what some of these fires, there'll be this massive plume and everyone's driving out and you're driving in thinking, "Oh, my God, what are we doing?" And that's the bit we sort of say in the truck "Righto, now's the time to earn the reputation, let's get to work." But I'm really pleased the brigade I'm into that the focus on safety is really strong, because we all just want to put the damn thing out and go home. And it's a different kind of volunteering, because, in a sense, it's fortunate because you can attack something. So it appeals to certain people, like you know, whether it's not this it might be sport or something else. But you get actually get to go in there. And you know, the natural hazard, which is typically bushfire, you can get in there and actively have a crack at it. And, again, there's a lot of satisfaction because if you get in there and you can extinguish a fire and save the house and, you know, save lives. That's a really, really good day, right?

Sonia Nolan: 28:41

Absolutely.

Craig Spencer: 28:42

So a bit of fun. Yeah, so I've done that for a fair while now as well. I'm not as fast as I used to be. So but I think I've still got a few more years in me yet because it is very satisfying. I think the last fire I went to was in Muchea, you know, so like, so again, you can have seasons where you don't do much. You just done a lot of standby and other seasons where you get absolutely flogged. So it's just finding the right balance. But you know, I do enjoy that.

Sonia Nolan: 29:12

And I'd really love you to help me understand what a fire plan is. Because that's something like every fire season, we hear have a fire plan. What are you going to do? How are you going to respond? Does your family know what everyone- what's expected of everybody? And I guess being in the city, I probably take that a little bit for granted. But I reckon that every single family- you're looking at me like "Sonia you don't have a five plan" no I don't which is why I want you to tell me what to do. Even in the city. What should we be doing?

Craig Spencer: 29:43

Yeah, look, caution is a soapbox. Here's one, let me get on it.

Sonia Nolan: 29:47

Get on the soapbox, go on.

Craig Spencer: 29:48

You've seen me post about this on Facebook.

Sonia Nolan: 29:49

I have over and over again. And I feel guilty every time I see it which is why I want you to help me.

Craig Spencer: 29:54

I checked, I looked up your address. And good news is you're not in a bushfire prone area here.

Sonia Nolan: 29:58

I'm in a flood zone.

Craig Spencer: 29:59

Well yeah. You're not far from one though because if you look at the - anyone can go and look up their address, you just put in bushfire prone Google search, right and there's a map which the Department of Foreign Emergency Services has very kindly provided, your whack your address in. And basically, if you're within about a couple of kilometres of a bushland area, you would be put in what's defined as a bushfire prone area. So you're not living- down the river is. But if someone lives near one of those lovely open spaces we have around Perth, you know, there's a chance but the reality is 90% WA is bushfire prone. So what that really means is an area where if a bushfire occurs, it's likely to take off and potentially cause a threat. Most of where we will holiday is bushfire prone.

Sonia Nolan: 30:45

So down south, is that what you're saying?

Craig Spencer: 30:47

Oh, absolutely. Yep, pretty much everywhere, right? Down south. My advice to you on this is DFES have got

Sonia Nolan: 30:52

Maybe not. some really, really good resources, you can go online,

Craig Spencer: 30:55

But we all go on holiday somewhere, for me often Google it again, Bushfire Ready, it's all there. The reason we're always keen to get people to have a plan is everyone will say it's people when you holiday, because we often holiday at to me, they've got a plan, it's in their head. And as we all know, if you write something down, and it literally takes five minutes, if you write it down, at least you've got it, stick it on the fridge. And you know, bang. I think for a lot of your listeners, because I'm sure there a certain socio economic class that go to either Rottnest or run down south, maybe not. times when there's a bushfire risk over summer.

Sonia Nolan: 31:32

Of course.

Craig Spencer: 31:33

And it's just about being aware of those things. But for me, the biggest issue is most people I talk to say "Oh, yeah our plan is we'll just go, you know, if there's a fire, we'll go." And that's great. And my next question is always "Right. When?" So the the biggest killer, the biggest risk is people's indecision. And I have driven into so many fire grounds, where there's so many people driving out in the last minute. And so it's dangerous for them. It's really dangerous for us, that last year I went to we almost had a firefighter hit by car because we were in the street. We had hose lines out, we're all wearing helmets and masks. So we've got reduced visibility, the smoke was so thick, your visibility was about two metres. And then some bloke comes around the corner, like a bat out of hell. Because he was frantic because he was trying to get to his mother's house, we get that. But he literally ploughed through, you know, four or five trucks, and we were all over the road. So for me, you know, it's, it's people, if they've got a plan in mind, that's fine. But if you're gonna go, what's your decision point, when and how are you gonna make that decision?

Sonia Nolan: 32:41

And how can we make that decision? Because I know that so the radios will be broadcasting. And they'll be saying prepare, you know, there's certain levels of warning that the radio stations, which is a really good thing to turn on, the radio, and actually hear what the what the fire emergency responses are. So is there a time where you would recommend?

Craig Spencer: 33:01

So, I can tell you what we do with our family.

Sonia Nolan: 33:02

Yeah please, yeah great. A little bit late.

Craig Spencer: 33:03

Because I'm very conscious of that what you Yeah, serious strife. So those are the sort of should do is Google Bushfire Ready, go to the DFES site, because there's some fantastic tools and resources there. What this bloke does is, so if we're up at Bindoon, the first thing we do in the morning is check the bushfire danger rating for the day. So if it's like, you know, extreme catastrophic, then we're having breakfast doing the dishes and my wife's getting out. So she she goes back to Perth, because if a fire call comes on, I'm out. And our plan is we don't want her there by herself. Because if under those fire conditions of extreme or catastrophic, there's no way you could stop a fire and she'll be trapped. So that's our plan, which is get out early. But if it's any, if it's lower, like if the fire danger rating for that day is lower, we'll still assess it and decide what we want to things I think people can do. Indecision is the biggest risk. do. Often it just means for us getting the fire unit ready, making sure the hoses are available, lots of stuff. But everyone can do that. I think the best thing you can do is over summer, when you get up in the morning, check what the fire danger rating is for the day in the area that you're in and and

Sonia Nolan: 34:06

And so we've got a fire plan. We know when we're have a conversation with the adults you're with on, what that means what we might do. If you're down south somewhere camping, which is great. Just go okay, so if we need to get out, we've got two exits, you know as an alternative route if one's going to leave, we've decided to leave early. Is there something blocked and just to start to have that sort of adult conversation before the rest of your day kicks off. For me, that's a bit about just better preparing yourself to be able to make a decision. Because when people go, "oh I think I can smell smoke." If it's a catastrophic fire danger day, you in... we need to do for our homes, to protect our homes like do we- I mean, I'm gonna ask really silly questions here, Craig, but do we turn the sprinklers on, do we close the windows or do we- What do we do with our home? To put it in the best possible position to survive? Potentially.

Craig Spencer: 35:07

And look, the biggest risk to a house isn't direct flame. If there's a direct flame impacting on the side of the house, then it's a really bad day. It's ember attack that people need to really worry about. So again, lots of great defence resources, go to the page, right? But really, you want to protect the house members. So a lot of people know that, you know, if there was a fire coming, fill your gutters with water? How are you gonna do that?

Sonia Nolan: 35:30

Yeah, I know this is it, you've got all these great ideas, but it's just I wouldn't have a clue how to start.

Craig Spencer: 35:35

For me, it's like, okay, depending upon your type of gutter, I mean, we're getting a bit detailed here, but figure out what you gotta do to block it. Some can use a tennis ball, some use a softball, some use or whatever. But you know, I've got a bucket of old tennis balls wrapped in rags and shed, and I'm shoving down the down pipes. And that's enough for my gutters, so I can fill them up with water. So if it was a bad day, I'd do that in the morning. I wouldn't leave it till I can smell smoke, I get it ready, because the worst thing to do at the end of the day is you just take the tennis balls out. So I think it's preparing your house for ember attack, it is making sure you haven't got leaves in the gutter, you haven't got a lot of fuel around the house.

Sonia Nolan: 36:12

And that's good housekeeping during the year. Right?

Craig Spencer: 36:14

It is, but honestly, I have been to so many houses where we're getting there, we were screaming up the driveway, where we're reversing the truck out. So it's ready to go. If we get caught. We're dragging that hose lines, and I'm catching it on junk that's around the side of the house. Because when we get hose lines out, we are dragging them all around the house of the week and then start to protect it, and the last thing you want to be doing is catching your hose line on people's junk. And we will treat it as junk if it's in the way.

Sonia Nolan: 36:45

And rightly so.

Craig Spencer: 36:46

But you know, often it's amazing for me still how many houses aren't prepared. But to the good folk down in the lovely town of Muchea we went there that last fire, tonnes of them had the houses well prepared. Sprinklers on. And when we got there, we could assess it and go "that house is safe," we don't need to defend that, that's going to look after itself. And then we could go and attack the fire at its source. So a lot of it is just about good housekeeping, get the leaves out of the gardens, get the fuel away from the house. If you can fill your gutters with water, that's really handy, if you can seal your house better because a lot of WA houses a bit draughty. And those are the basic things you can do. But again, you can do that well before the event, not having to try to rush around it when you can see flame on the horizon.

Sonia Nolan: 37:30

Which is part of your fire plan. Right?

Craig Spencer: 37:31

Correct. Their website, really good resources.

Sonia Nolan: 37:32

Part of your fire plan. Well that, look, you know what, you've already helped me enormously with some of those I'll put some links on that for the show notes. Yeah, brilliant. Thank you for that, Craig. I want to go back now to volunteering. And volunteering has changed a lot ideas. And certainly I'm sure that you've helped a lot of and it continues to change. And that's certainly something that I've noticed and even with myself in the way that I'm volunteering now compared to what I probably volunteered as 20 years ago. And now I'm really time conscious, sort of I really want to give, I'm involved with CARAD, the Centre for Asylum listeners around the Warm Table podcast who you know, may not Seekers, Refugees and Detainees. So I help with their food bank. And I can do that once a month. But I've got specific times when I can and when I can't. And so you know, I really devote, you know, a morning a month to do that, which isn't a lot, but it's something. But that changes every month as to when I'm have known where to start. So but like you've said DFES website. available to do it. Now. That's probably a bit of a pain for them at the other end, because, you know, I'm not your every Monday, weekly volunteer, but I think I'm pretty typical of volunteers these days. Craig, is that fair to say?

Craig Spencer: 38:50

Look and I think that's - I have been involved in it for for a while. And it's certainly changing. But I think it's, I think it's for the good because it's a changing, adapting to the community that is receiving the benefit from volunteering, but also with volunteers come from. I find that with a lot of volunteers I've talked to I do get quite triggered when people say to me,"oh young people don't want to volunteer."

Sonia Nolan: 39:15

I get triggered by that too.

Craig Spencer: 39:16

Newsflash, young people are volunteering just as much. In fact, some data would suggest they're volunteering more. It's the way they're volunteering has changed.

Sonia Nolan: 39:24

I'm triggered with you. Let's go down this path.

Craig Spencer: 39:26

It's like, you know, young people don't like to dance. Well, they do. They just want to do it on TikTok, not at the dance hall. So they're still volunteering. I chuckled because my son's obviously now very passionate about volunteering. And I was talking to him the other day about this, and they sort of said "Oh, volunteering's for old people" and stuff like that. But then I talked to them about what they're doing. And so one of them's a moderator on an online platform.

Sonia Nolan: 39:49

Oh, great, huge responsibility. And it's really important,

Craig Spencer: 39:53

And I said, "how much are you getting paid for it?" I said, right, so that's...

Sonia Nolan: 39:56

Volunteering.

Craig Spencer: 39:58

Volunteering. So I think there's different ways to do it, I know a lot of younger people might want to do volunteering more spontaneously, or it might be sort of more, you know, every so often not a regular thing. I think that is the thing. A lot of young people want to volunteer, just they don't want to volunteer like their grandparents do.

Sonia Nolan: 40:15

Definitely.

Craig Spencer: 40:15

They want to do it a different way. But I'm very optimistic about that. I think there's quite a lot of Volunteer Involving Organisations or VIOs, as we call them, call them in the industry, they are adapting the volunteering model. So you might only turn up, you know, whatever date it is, month it is. But some smart organisations will have structured volunteering, so that's okay. As long as you've done your safety induction, you know what you got to do, you can drop in and out. And so, you know, maybe in the past, they wanted to fill a roster, but now, they just acknowledged that well that work will get done when we can get the people and then it becomes about how to we attract them.

Sonia Nolan: 40:51

And I think it's also, programme managers, volunteer managers are becoming really worth their weight in gold, you know a little bit about what we talked about a moment ago, but yeah, that this idea that they're the ones that have to be that sort of medium in between getting the volunteers in and tailoring their volunteer experience for the organisation, and the volunteer.

Craig Spencer: 41:14

And that, for me is something I'm very passionate about, I think, through the State Volunteering Awards, Volunteering WA holds them every year, but there is a Volunteer Manager of the Year award. And I think it's that category of individuals that we really need to highlight this and fantastic volunteer managers, shout out to Wendy Gauci, if she's listening.

Sonia Nolan: 41:32

Good on you, Wendy.

Craig Spencer: 41:34

But there's some fantastic volunteer managers, which really, if you don't have those people in there, your programme just won't succeed.

Sonia Nolan: 41:41

No it just won't. And certainly with the new way of volunteering, that people can, you know, need to adapt to it, it's not going to succeed without a really good volunteer

Craig Spencer: 41:51

And I think that's where again, those VIOs, manager. Volunteer Involving Organisations, the smart ones are investing in volunteer systems to manage them, communicate better with them, the way the volunteers want to be communicated with, recognising them, rewarding them, giving them development opportunities, because sometimes people want to volunteer because of the skill set it'll give them like, I can think of all the things I've learned. And if you're a young person trying to get into the workforce, maybe you want to volunteer to help, you know, build your skill set. That's fine. That's great.

Sonia Nolan: 42:21

Yes, it's not selfish. I think that that's the other changed mindset we need, serving the community. And it's actually a really important, you know, you're building capacity in your community by teaching people skills. Am I on the

Craig Spencer: 42:33

I think we're both on the soapbox. Put our soapbox? hands back on the Warm Table. But no, I think that's really important. And

Sonia Nolan: 42:37

Okay, back on the Warm Table. I've seen that with our vollies at the moment. And a lot of our vollies that I've got in the Wheatbelt, they might be working two casual jobs, they might be looking after kids, they're doing a whole lot of things. So as much as I'd love to be able to say I've got a roster that sealed 24 hours a day, sometimes the best way is to just, you know, it's whenever they can volunteer, they will, and you know, just need to take advantage of that. So I think we've got sort of like some incredibly dedicated volunteers who spent years and years and years with the same organisation, and have really built the foundations of that organisation. And if we didn't have that longevity of volunteers, bring us to the point we are now those organisations won't be who they are. So we really and I think that Volunteering WA has been excellent in acknowledging long term volunteering, and and you know, the stalwarts of our society, which again, we couldn't do without.

Craig Spencer: 43:32

The awards nights coming up soon, I love going to that night. And it's always the, the spontaneous standing ovation for the Lifetime Contribution. And it's- all the award categories are great. But there's some of these people you think, my goodness, look what they've done, and look how little I do. So I think it's great. And I think you're right, it's that balance of, you know, for me, a great team of volunteers is the one that's got that diversity, you want those respected elders, you want those new ones that want to run around, like I don't want to run around at a fire ground anymore, I want some young bloke to run around in the fireground. So I think it's that sort of balance of getting that diversity. And what I love about that, too, is some of these young people would never normally engage with people maybe that age or that demographic.

Sonia Nolan: 44:14

Sure.

Craig Spencer: 44:15

That when they do, it's fantastic. It's such a better team because of that. So yes, for me, it's not one cohort or the other, it's all of them and how we find a wave to be able to work together.

Sonia Nolan: 44:29

I was reading a report actually on sports volunteering, and you know, that's one of the reasons in Australia, you know, we love our sport, we love Auskick. We love all of you know those opportunities where our kids get to engage and build community on the sporting fields, whatever they look like, whether it's a netball court, or whether it's soccer pitch or whatever it is.

Craig Spencer: 44:50

And I think, you know, sport is a great - imagine if we didn't have volunteering in sport.

Sonia Nolan: 44:54

We just couldn't continue with what we've got, you know, just yeah.

Craig Spencer: 44:59

Says the father that had two boys swimming. But you know, you think about all these sort of things, but it's also the richness of the life. And again, we've still got friends from back when the boys were swimming, because it's the sort of the networks you make of all those parents.

Sonia Nolan: 45:12

It is, it's that friendship. And again, it comes back to the well being of volunteering, doesn't it? You know, we it's all the warm fuzzy around it, which is its mental health, it actually increases our mental health by getting involved.

Craig Spencer: 45:23

I don't know whether, you may not be aware of this. But one of the things I saw about volunteering a couple of years ago, when I was involved with Bankwest, we had the Bankwest Curtin Economic Centre.

Sonia Nolan: 45:32

Yes, I do remember that.

Craig Spencer: 45:34

They did a great reporting to the cultural well

Sonia Nolan: 45:34

Because they just did it? being of the Yawuru people. So the Yawuru people that, the mob

Craig Spencer: 45:37

Yeah. So that- when the research was done, they up in Broome, and I had the privilege of going up to Broome for the launch of the report. But where this is connected for me, I think volunteering is a word we get. But when they were doing that research into cultural well being, it wasn't a word that they got. talked about this concept of Liyan, which is L I Y A N. And I sort of read through the report and kind of got it but I didn't quite get it. So when I was up there, we had a meeting one day, and there were these blokes out the front that were doing all the gardening, so I just sort of like skipped out of the meeting, went out and started having a chat to them, chatting about a whole lot of different things. And I kind of said them, "you guys know about this what's this this thing called the Liyan?" They say, "Yeah!" Because for them, it's just part of their language. And I said, "Can you kind of describe it to me, because I don't really get it, you know, but I'm bringing a different mindset to it." So they sort of told me the story, but they like fishing. So good day for them is when they go fishing and catch fish. But really great days when they can catch enough fish that they can feed, not just the family, but the other families in the community, you know, like for people that might be able to. And so for them, like if the fish are running, they just go fishing. Because they worked by taming the gardens, but they said, "but we can do that any day of the week. And Saturdays and Sundays, it doesn't - it's just another day. If the fish are running on Wednesday, we'll go fishing. Because if we can provide for ourselves and for our community, that's a great day." And I'm ongoing, "I get it" right? And you know, we try to wedge our volunteering into a industrial sort of model of Monday to Friday, your work. Maybe your volunteer Saturday and Sunday. Geez, that's hard. I just liked the fact that they volunteer, but they didn't have to give a name to it that identified it as unpaid work. It's just what they do as part of their cultural well being. I think there's a lot to learn from a 60,000 year old culture. And I see- why I'm optimistic about what's happening. If you know, there's some great work being done right now on a national volunteering strategy. But it's acknowledging that volunteering is so embedded in our, our culture and our community, that it doesn't necessarily have to be, it's not just unpaid work. It's much much more than that.

Sonia Nolan: 48:00

It's civic society, isn't it?

Craig Spencer: 48:03

It is.

Sonia Nolan: 48:05

Now, Craig, you've recently Honured? Yes, I'm going to make you feel very uncomfortable. Now. You've recently been Honoured in the inaugural King's Birthday Honours?

Craig Spencer: 48:17

Yes.

Sonia Nolan: 48:18

And that's for all your work in community and volunteering and your service for civic society, for you know, you're one of the people who've made WA a great place.

Craig Spencer: 48:31

Yeah, it is a bit awkward. We'll take it. But look, that's really nice. Mum will be happy.

Sonia Nolan: 48:39

Yes, that's important. Keep mum happy. But it is a great honour, Craig, you're going to be all bashful. And you're going to be modest. And that's because that's who you are. But I just want to congratulate you on that. I'm delighted that you've been personally honoured in this because I've, you know, sort of had the privilege and pleasure of being your friend for many years now. And, and a work colleague, and to see, to see you be acknowledged for the work that you do and the human that you are, just means that someone got it right. So well done, Craig,

Craig Spencer: 49:16

Thank you. Yeah. But look, I think, you know, again, if it contributes to volunteering being acknowledged, celebrated. Great. That's what it's about.

Sonia Nolan: 49:28

Have you got any stats? Craig?

Craig Spencer: 49:31

I love a good stat. So back in 2015, I was the chair of the board at the time for Volunteering WA and we commissioned some research because we were trying to understand the economic, the social, the cultural value of volunteering. So we commissioned this piece of research. They went off and did some extensive research, came back. I remember the board meeting when they presented the initial results because we got it and they said,"Righto, here's all the results. It's all very interesting." But the number one headline was the economic, social cultural value of volunteering was $39 billion.

Sonia Nolan: 50:02

Billion?

Craig Spencer: 50:03

Yeah, 39 billion and we went, we went, hang on, that's got to be wrong.

Sonia Nolan: 50:06

Has someone done the right calculations?

Craig Spencer: 50:08

So in a board meeting saying "Please, that's got to be wrong. That's just ridiculous." But no, went back and validated it all. And this is for WA, by the way.

Sonia Nolan: 50:17

Oh, only WA?

Craig Spencer: 50:18

Yeah, yep. And so we thought, wow, that's loud, you know, like numbers are numbers. But 39 billion is a big number in anyone's language.

Sonia Nolan: 50:27

For sure.

Craig Spencer: 50:28

So I think I was interested to watch. So what happened over the last seven years is almost every single Minister of volunteering has picked up on that. And we're fortunate in WA, I know, it's an international podcast, but in this lovely state, we do have a minister of volunteering in the cabinet. So our state government with a Liberal label, whoever acknowledges that there's so much value in volunteering. And the great thing about this sort of research is, when you have conversations with the state government, and which we do through different forums, they get that there's so much value to civil society from volunteering. One of the fascinating facts in there is that if you looked at- if the volunteers in the state were a workforce, it's twice as many people as work in mining.

Sonia Nolan: 51:16

Is that so?

Craig Spencer: 51:17

Yep. So we all think about the mining industry being the driver of the state, and it sure is. But if you think about the volunteering workforce that's out there, it's twice the size of the mining industry, it's big, like it's really substantial. And these are sort of things that, I think interesting, four out of five, who residents volunteer in some way, shape or form. So most people are volunteering in some way. I think a lot of them don't recognise it as that. But there is a lot of people doing it.

Sonia Nolan: 51:45

I think because of informal versus formal volunteering.

Craig Spencer: 51:48

Absolutely. And it's acknowledging that there's a lot of what we've always thought of in the past has been formal volunteering through institutions. It's about acknowledging that, you know, when you ask people, are they providing their labour of free, you know, in whatever way, a lot of us are doing it. So which is a great thing. And now, this research came out seven years ago. So volunteering, who has commissioned another report to look at it again. And between that time, we've had a GFC, we've had COVID. And we did see a lot of people stopped volunteering for any number of reasons, whether it was financial constraints, you know, certainly through COVID, there was people that, you know, they didn't want to expose themselves to risk or they weren't vaccinated, or whatever it might be. So we've seen that change, and those people haven't necessarily returned to volunteering. So that is part of the challenge, I think, for the state, how do we reengage people in volunteering to make sure we can sustain it. I'm fascinated to see what this next set of research will show us. But I do feel optimistic, because I see that volunteering is changing. It's adapting, I think, to modern society. You know, if you're volunteering is creating a TikTok video for charity to help promote their fundraising day, that's volunteering.

Sonia Nolan: 53:03

That's volunteering, exactly.

Craig Spencer: 53:04

So it's a different kind of thing. And that's what excites me. There's people doing volunteering now for organisations that I couldn't do. Thank goodness, they're doing it. And it's using the skills that they've, they've got, I guarantee everyone listening has got a unique skill set, that a Volunteer Involving Organisation or charity would die to get access to. So it's about understanding what value you can bring.

Sonia Nolan: 53:31

So if there were, I guess, three things, Craig, that you wanted people to know about volunteering, or to consider if they haven't yet sort of chosen something to volunteer in what would be your suggestion?

Craig Spencer: 53:45

Point number one, just put your toe in the water, find something you're interested in, you've got a passion on, or find something you just wish you understood more about.

Sonia Nolan: 53:52

Bit of curiosity.

Craig Spencer: 53:54

Yep, give it a go. There's tonnes of opportunities. I mean, I know there's some there's some great opportunities on like SEEK Volunteer, Volunteering, WA if you go to their website page, you can find details as well. But often it's about what's the community group that you're really passionate about. You may not find the right opportunity first time but just you know, see what you can find. Try and think of somerhing that you can do with your family. Because you know what you don't want to do is have your passion around volunteering end up being something which rubs up against your family, so if you can find they can all volunteer together, I think it's a great opportunity. But for me it is, I think a lot of people have been busy. And so maybe it's just they can't find the time. I couldn't imagine not having volunteering in my life because of the balance that gives to my portfolio, if all you did was work and eat and watch reality TV, gosh, that life would be dull. So for me it is about once you get it in your life, trust me, people, you won't get it out.

Sonia Nolan: 54:53

I agree. And I think also, you know, check in with your work policies and see if there are some volunteer days that are already part of, you know, what the work offers.

Craig Spencer: 55:01

And then once you sort of get into the habit of it, you'll realise how much satisfaction it gives you as well. We've saw the federal budget come down recently, all these sorts of things are all very much on people's minds, cost of living. How can you possibly volunteer when your cost of living pressures are on? And my advice to people is do it because it'll make you feel better when you've got so many other things in your life that are giving you stress? Find something that makes you feel good. And newsflash, I reckon volunteering is one of the best things you can do.

Sonia Nolan: 55:29

I agree. Craig, I don't think there was anybody better to have come and shared the Warm Table with me this morning to talk about volunteering. So thank you so much for your time.

Craig Spencer: 55:38

Thank you very much for inviting me. It's been wonderful.

Sonia Nolan: 55:43

Thanks for joining me, Sonia Nolan around the Warm Table. Let's grow the community. Please follow My Warm Table podcast on socials and like and share this episode with your family and friends. My Warm Table is brought to you by Females Over 45 Fitness. Keep listening now for a health tip from FOFF head coach Kelli Reilly.

Kelli Reilly FOFF: 56:04

Hi, it's Kelli Reilly, founder and head coach of Females Over 45 Fitness. Snacking, ladies listen to this equation. If you're wanting to lose one kilo weight, it's going to take 7700 calories to do that. So what are you snacking on during the day? Are they the wrong types of snacks? Snacking really impacts on your ability to lose weight so you want to create a calorie deficit, ladies, so whatever you're burning off each day, you want to make sure what you're eating is less than that. So remember ladies, to lose one kilo of weight it takes 7700 calories, it's your time to shine.