Stories from Snake Gully and Aboriginal Health with Jenny Baraga

Jenny Baraga is a pioneer of Aboriginal mental health practice and training in Western Australia’s north west region. 

Jenny describes herself as a quiet achiever. She is a trusted voice, an experienced health practitioner and a proud Garra Yarra woman with a compelling story about the importance of taking the time to have a yarn and show cultural respect to people – especially when they are at their most vulnerable. 

During our warm table conversation Jenny also shared the legend of a painting she created some years ago which tells her family’s story of loss and pain and the legacy of being part of the stolen generation. 

As Australians we have much to listen and learn about the stories and experiences of First Nations people, so it’s a privilege to be able to amplify the knowledge and wisdom of our warm table guest Jennifer Baraga.

Warm thanks to:
Sponsor: Females Over Forty-five Fitness in Victoria Park
Sound Engineering: Damon Sutton
Music: William A Spence
... and all our generous and inspiring guests around the warm table this season!

Transcript

Sonia Nolan: 0:00

It's a privilege to have you Jennifer around my warm table today. Thank you so much for coming and having a yarn.

Unknown: 0:09

Yeah, well, like I've said a lot of our yarn in his, for me. Second Nature, you know, like I'm always telling a good yarn to whoever wants to listen, whether it's my family, whether it's people I meet, and a lot of the times my family tell me, mom, Auntie Nan, you know, you talk too much.

Sonia Nolan: 0:47

What are some of the favourite stories you'd like to share with them?

Unknown: 0:51

Usually, usually, the stories that I like to share with, with my family or whoever is a captive audience at the time is about things that we did, as children or as family to survive. Because, as you know, we, you know, storytelling is part of us, you know, we we've always spoke about the past, the past brings us lessons that we learn for our future. And for now, and and although I get told, you know, we've heard those stories before. And, you know, you don't need to tell us these stories. But then I'll say, but we need these stories, to be able to remember the mistakes that we we could have made or the mistakes that we made, and how we could, we could do it better. So that's the reason why I always share, or yawn. It's always about yawning, because I don't want to be seen to be lecturing people and you know, I've had people say to me, don't score me, don't score me because I know what you're saying. I'm not stupid. And so for me to be able to yarn with anyone and share that yarn is a gentle way of sharing the message, whatever message I want to share with them. And, and I

Sonia Nolan: 2:47

guess it's also empathising with others, because if they also say, Hey, don't score me, I've been there, I know it. And you can actually empathise and say, Yeah, I get it, because I've been there, too. Yeah.

Unknown: 3:00

And, and I guess on, you know, that's, that's having, having worked in health for many years, I've been taught by a mainstream service, how to deliver messages to our people. But in delivering those messages, I've had to learn to adapt those messages so that the messages are culturally appropriate, that, that they're acceptable for our mob. And they're able to use that information to benefit themselves, you know, and benefit their families. Even today, I I'm working and I'm, I'm 65 and I love my work, I absolutely love my work. And for me, it's always been about as an Aboriginal woman, being able to give back to our mob. And having been part of the stolen generation and how disempowered my family were throughout their lives. It's always been important for me to share knowledge and my time, you know, we live in a really busy world where people don't make so much time for one another as we used to. And you know, in the past, we we would take the time to sit down and have a yarn and have a cup of tea and yeah, those those sorts of really important things and then all those messages that you want to get out about looking after yourself. Look Going after your family, being aware of what is needed to survive, it's always about us as a as a, you know, as an individual or as a family as a community, how we could, how we could survive, and it's and, you know, they, they talk about us as being the oldest, one of the oldest living races in the world. And, and I think whether I've never really done it in a in a way where I've, oh, yes, I'm going to go out, and I'm going to make sure that we're going to be here for another 50 or 60 years. But for me, it's always been about being that support person and someone that people feel safe to come and talk to, to come and approach and making myself available. You know, having worked in the health field for many years, I don't just assume that I know everything. I've never taken it for granted that just because I've learnt how to, to do things, to help our people with their health care and their understanding about health care. I've also had to learn never to assume that I know where everything that journey that we all take, even with our clients or with the people that I've worked with, is that it's it's a shared learning, because in the end, it doesn't matter what I'm trying to tell them. It's what they want to learn, and why they want to learn and what they want to take with them.

Sonia Nolan: 7:35

You're working in the mental health space at the moment, Jenny, and you said, you've only been in that space for five years, which I think you've probably seen a lot in the last five years. But you said it was your dream job that you feel like you've always been meant to be doing what you're doing.

Unknown: 7:55

Well, I laugh at that, Sonya because when I started working in in the field of health, I started working as a cook cleaner, ambulance driver at the marble bar nursing post, many years ago, 90 and 89. And one day, they had an interview for an Aboriginal Health Worker. And I never knew what an Aboriginal Health Worker did. And the person that they were going to interview didn't attend the interview. So that's my journey and health started because I was standing standing up behind the mop that I was holding in my arm. I was holding them up and I said to the nurse, I said, Do you think I might be able to apply for that job. And I and the nurse said, I don't think that'd be a problem. And in those days, we still had to talk with the members of the community to ask if it was okay for us to apply for the job. So there

Sonia Nolan: 9:35

was a cultural aspect that they needed to give you their blessing almost that you would be the voice or the right person to be that interaction.

Unknown: 9:45

Yeah, right. And I went and I spoke with you know, I was I was really excited, but I was I was scared as well because I was thinking you know, I don't know whether I Um, our elders in the community would have said it was okay for me to, for me to be the Aboriginal Health Worker. So I went, and they gave me permission, which was, which was wonderful. And from that, I became an Aboriginal Health Worker who worked basic skills. And I worked with the nurse and I worked with RFDS for three years, the

Sonia Nolan: 10:33

Royal Flying Doctor Service. Yes, yes. And were you mainly the liaison point with Aboriginal patients? Was that the idea?

Unknown: 10:42

Yes. And I That's right Sonya I did a lot of the liaise and but I also assisted the nurse with any procedures that might have required more than one person great. And, and that was it was one of the best learnings that I could have ever set me up as an Aboriginal Health Worker. And then three years after that, I went and did my qualification in I came down here to Perth, and I went to my mortgage, and I did my Aboriginal Health Worker training. And it, it was just, I was able to complete my Cert three, certificate three and Aboriginal primary health care. And I was, it was it was the advanced Aboriginal Health Worker qualification and you know, yeah, that was that was the beginning of my life working in health. From the I moved to Darwin in 1997 9697, because the reason why I moved to the Northern Territory was I I was experiencing domestic violence. And I wanted a better life for my child and myself. But I thought, Okay, well, if I leave, and I go to the Northern Territory, I can try and learn to become a registered nurse. You know, I, I set my goals to move, and I did, I moved to the Northern Territory. And I worked there till 2003. As you know, like I initially went up there to train to become a registered nurse. But I found that having never been unemployed. It was such a struggle to be on AB study. I couldn't. I couldn't continue on a study. So then, there was a job offered at the local Aboriginal Medical Service, pause for someone to become a coordinator of Women and Children's Services. So I applied for the position. And I I was responsible for a comprehensive delivery of service for women and children. And it was all the things that I'd been taught when I I was in Western Australia. And it wasn't, I was responsible for three Aboriginal Health Workers and two doctors to deliver this service. Right. So over that time that I was there, at the, the Aboriginal Medical Service in Ghana, when I taught my female staff, how to perform all the tasks that were required for women's health and children's health, either by delivering the training myself, or, you know, working with our training service that was there.

Sonia Nolan: 15:48

So when you're talking about women's health, is it things like the gynaecological health aspects? Yeah. And it was there some emotional health and some mental health aspect of that as well, Jenny?

Unknown: 16:01

Well, the service itself was set up originally to have a service for women in the in the AMS, and the service was separate to the main clinic, because it was provide a safe place for women. And that was, that was well and good. But then a lot of our women weren't able to, to attend. Big because of the relationships. So in the end, I had to think out of the box, and allow, or I was able to talk with management about getting a neutral room where the clients and their partners were able to come and be seen together. Okay, because we couldn't we couldn't,

Sonia Nolan: 17:02

you couldn't separate male and female, or you could have just the women to come down for a special women's only clinic was there not truly not. Right. And

Unknown: 17:12

even though that that clinic was specifically developed for women, for women's health, yeah, we weren't getting the women to come in.

Sonia Nolan: 17:27

Because the men were a little bit suspicious of it, or they were excluded. They were excluded. Okay. And

Unknown: 17:33

I had to you know, I had to push that concept of sharing find, yeah, so So although we had a space for women only, we were able to also incorporate a women and men's unit as well, so that it become more of a happy family. Yeah, so over that period of time, I guess. When I was there, I taught all my staff how to do my job. Eventually, eventually, I became, I became I would work across the whole clinic. And and then I started venturing into more senior roles, where I was assisting with the, the overall management of the whole service for for a while, while while the senior management there, and then eventually, I became bored with working there, because I'd done everything that I felt that I needed to do, and I taught my staff, how to do my job. You were

Sonia Nolan: 19:00

leaving it in really good hands. I knew what to do. And you strike me, Jen, you're someone who loves a challenge. And you needed what's next.

Unknown: 19:09

And you need you need, you need to be continuously learning. Yeah, for sure. And, and for me, learning is so important for us to grow. You know, because you're not going to keep that information for yourself. You're going to share it with other people.

Sonia Nolan: 19:26

I totally agree. And I've always had the philosophy that education is not actually about yourself. It's actually about everybody else. Yep. Yeah.

Unknown: 19:36

I guess it's such a long story, Sonya but I then applied to become an educator trainer with the Northern Territory health department. What I used to do was to fly out to the remote communities with Aboriginal staff who were employed by the by the Health Department. And my role was to bring them up to current competency. You know, because they were registered health workers up there, they were the only registered health workers in Australia. So, for them to be registered, they all had to be competent at that level for so that was my role. And, and

Sonia Nolan: 20:24

they were all Aboriginal women. Yes, yes, women or men or men or Aboriginal people. And

Unknown: 20:31

what happened was, we used to fly out to our community and we deliver health service while we were there in that community. And in the afternoons, the, the RFDS, or the Flying Doctor would come back from one of the bigger communities and pick us up and take us back into town. So yeah, and then that time, it was it was a it was a, another learning experience for me. So in the meantime, my father had become unwell in Western Australia in Portland. And I decided to leave and move back to Western Australia. Some of my work colleagues thought I was running away. But it was really important for me to come home

Sonia Nolan: 21:32

running to you, it was different.

Unknown: 21:36

Yeah, it's it's Yeah, and it was important that I spent time with my dad, you know, and we were very close and I was able to spend three years with him. When I moved back here, I became the manager for the well being Centre at that Aboriginal Medical Service. And I was I was a manager there for eight years in that time, and then delivering health, you know, emotional social well being programmes to the community. You know, did that for those eight years. And then again, I was being challenged in another way where I had a manager who said to me, we want to train our own Aboriginal Health workers. So as a manager, I was a manager and I was asked to set up the registered training organisation there. So I worked. I employed a coordinator expert who came in and helped me set up this registered training organisation. And I delivered training to Aboriginal people, men and women to become Aboriginal Health workers. And that was for all the Aboriginal medical health services across the Pilbara. So I did that for about two or three years. And then I actually moved full circle back to the health department and I became a senior Aboriginal Health Worker working across the whole region with the health W I country health service. And then eventually, I had began working with population health as a health promotions officer. And then once I finished with that position, I moved into alcohol and drug services. I was, I guess, Sonya, I was trying to find my place.

Sonia Nolan: 25:26

It strikes me that your fingerprints are all over a lot of the training that's gone into the next generation of Aboriginal Health Worker across the Northwest of Western Australia, and into the Northern Territory as well. I think they've all had a dose of Jenny along the way I haven't made, because it's incredible what you've what you've been involved in. Yeah, I

Unknown: 25:51

would like to describe myself as being a quiet achiever. And I've always been a person who want have wanted positive outcomes for, you know, for our people, for our mob.

Sonia Nolan: 26:13

So you're an Aboriginal mental health worker, that's your current role.

Unknown: 26:17

Yay. Yeah. And I, I started this role in 2015. And I, I was working as an alcohol and drug support worker. But I worked in the same building, as the mental health team. And I saw the work that they were doing. And I just thought, wow, that's, that's different. And my role is to work with clinicians with acute and chronic clients with mental health issues, and it and it's not only Aboriginal people, it's it's people right across the board. But I love my job because I think I make a difference. I feel that I make a difference in some way. Our people see me and they know me, they recognise me. I'm seen as an older person in the community. And I think, you know, predominantly, our client base is men. And I think they, they see me and trust me, in a way. But I've also seen that with our mob, the the alcohol and drugs has really affected a lot about people's mindset. And it's it's the new newer drug with the nobbies. You know, the meth.

Sonia Nolan: 28:20

Right? What's Nabis? That the Aboriginal word for it?

Unknown: 28:24

Yeah. For from an area. And, yeah, and just that, you know, a lot of the diagnosis is coming up as schizophrenia because of alcohol and drunk. You know, if we could only get people to see that if they didn't have that. They could live a normal life. Yeah.

Sonia Nolan: 28:53

So what some of the wisdom in the so much wisdom in your journey, but I wonder what some of the wisdom you would just love to impart upon the next generation you're seen as one of the trusted? I don't know, do I say Do I dare say elders? Are you one of the elders of the community? Or you're one of the trusted, older?

Unknown: 29:14

Yes. A frosted older, busted older. I don't know Sonya, I think my biggest thing is to be available to be accessible. That people can come to me and talk to me and ask for help. Yeah. I don't try to tell them how to live their lives. And that's, I think, one of the main things is that it's not me trying to dictate how you should live your life. or some of my, some of the best clients some of their honesty, about their drug use and their Alcohol Alcohol use to me, you know, when the clinicians come with me, you know, and I'm talking with clients and that their honesty is because of that real establish relationship, I guess I have with them and, and that some of the things I say to me is just so mad, you know, and I just can't. They can be so funny, you know, and the clinicians that say, I've never seen someone so honest. And I said, is because they trust you? They, will they trust me, because they know me. Yes. And I'll tell the clinicians, you know, that's appropriate, or that's not appropriate. I, you know, I have to tell them, part of my role, a big part of my role is to let them know, what's appropriate and what's not appropriate, you know, like, not not in a judgmental way, but it will make it better if you did it this way.

Sonia Nolan: 31:35

And I guess, whenever we're unwell, or we are in a time where we need a health professional in our lives, we're already really vulnerable, let alone put the layer of on vulnerable, but also, I need you to treat me with respect. And that respect actually equals a very specific cultural approach to me. Yes. So there, you know, the service that you offer is just so important for that human who is vulnerable, and needing that cultural respect.

Unknown: 32:08

Exactly. And the sad thing is, we don't have enough Aboriginal mental health workers working with us, and in particular men, we're, you know, like I said to you, predominantly, my work base is men, I would have at least a handful of women, and and to be able to have men and not so much with our clients, but there are some some of our clients who, in the Pilbara, they, they do practice, law and culture. And that's that could impact on a client's mental health and well being as well. So, yeah,

Sonia Nolan: 33:11

in the sense of needing that extra layer of cultural sensitivity because of law and culture. Yeah. So a male sometimes is more appropriate to be that liaison point. And that that medical assistance. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown: 33:26

And and we also incorporate traditional healers into our service as well.

Sonia Nolan: 33:34

Can you tell me what that looks like? What does a traditional healer do?

Unknown: 33:39

Some of my clients might speak about being affected by spiritual beings that are connected in an Aboriginal way. And they they might arcs us as a service that they might want a traditional healer. Yes. So normally our coordinator, who has over 27 years of experience working with the service, will contact identified cultural healers in the community. And we'll set up a meeting with that client and that family. Yes. So, yeah. And

Sonia Nolan: 34:37

that's part of the healing process.

Unknown: 34:38

That's all part of part of, you know, that service. And that could that it just depends on how well that client is or, you know, they might decide that that was what they really wanted, and it made them feel better in mind body and spirit. Yes. So. So yeah, there. So that's part of it

Sonia Nolan: 35:13

the importance of culture is is clear at all. I hope it's clear. Do you feel it's clear for for Australian society? Do you think they do you think we're finally getting it?

Unknown: 35:28

I think there's always going to be there's always going to be a cultural divide. I don't think that Aboriginal people and culture, you know, like Aboriginal people aren't generically the same. Yes. So that's always going to have an impact on our health and well being because where we're coming from everybody has their own culture, whether whether it be in their families or in the community, they have their own culture, and it's

Sonia Nolan: 36:12

different regions within Australia and different regions within Western Australia have their own. Yeah, cultural expressions.

Unknown: 36:20

Yeah. And that's the reason why, I guess with my job, and with our service, it's usually mandatory for the clinicians to take part in cultural awareness training. Yeah. Awareness Training, most of it happens on the job. Yeah. Because the individual clinicians have a relationship with the community that nobody else has. See, I see it as my role. And I've told the clinicians, even when some of them may have thought that they know, you know, I've been I've been a clinician for over 20 years. And, and I, I said, Yes, yes, I am, respect and understand that. But this is not your community. This is you need to listen to me. And I'll tell you if it's safe, or not safe to be here. And I expect you to listen to me. And a lot of I've got to do a lot of that. That

Sonia Nolan: 37:39

mediation almost Yeah.

Unknown: 37:42

And, you know, because if you rock up there with the medication, and you're going to I, I just, I just say to the clinician, it's not a good time. Now, I think we might have to come back at another time. And if the client hears that, and that, and it isn't a good time, they'll say, to me and to the clinician, yes. Come back out as such, you know, like another time. Yeah, yeah. And, and usually when we go back, because they've turned it around and put it on their terms.

Sonia Nolan: 38:24

They're waiting. Yeah. And they've had time to think about it. Yeah, yeah. It's not just landed. And this is what we're gonna do. Yeah, there's, there's an element of taking back that control. I said, Yes.

Unknown: 38:36

And it's empowering them to be able to knowledge around that. And a lot of my role is to do that mediation and reaffirming what's been said, hey, you know, and, and doing it in a way where it's not aggressive. you're due for your medicine, we want to, we want to just get that in, and then we're out of your way. Some people aren't in that frame of mind.

Sonia Nolan: 39:07

No. And it comes back to what you were saying in the very early parts Jenny about it's about time. It's about relationships. And having a yarn. Yeah. Before you do anything. Yeah. So that people are really aware of, of what is in store or what, what they're taking some responsibility for. Yeah. And feeling feeling the control around.

Unknown: 39:33

I feel so proud of our mob when they they're able to say no, not now. And then what makes me happy is that when you go back there they're at and yeah, when you what you said, and we're here now. Yes. And all that what you're just saying about having that control It just makes me feel good that all these years in that I've worked in health and connecting with people and sharing knowledge and information and trust and respect. It's working