Only Fee-Only
This podcast interviews fee-only financial planners to learn about how they are helping their clients and serving their specific niches.
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#95 - Overcoming Roadblocks and Building Successful Client Relationships with Nancy Bleeke Noël
Nancy's Social:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancybleeke/
How's it going everyone? Welcome back to the OnlyFeeOnly podcast and, as always, thanks for being here. In this episode, we talked to Nancy Blakey Noel, who is the founder and president at SalesPro Insider. She has been in the industry since 1998 with a focus to help relationship driven people become more confident and skillful to improve their sales. Her book conversations that sell has been named a top sales book of all time, multiple years in a row, and continues to be a must read for professionals who need to be more productive in their selling efforts. We really enjoyed this conversation with Nancy and she had a lot of great things to say, and you know what? I think it's okay to say hey, sometimes we need help in different areas of our practice or our business, and she had a lot of great info around that. So I'm going to let her tell you a little bit about what she's doing. Here is Nancy Blakey Noel on the Only Fee Only podcast.
Speaker 2:How's it going, everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Only Fee Only podcast. How's it going, everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Only Fee Only podcast. I'm Peter Travolo. I'm here with my co-host, Brock Buckles. How's it going today, Brock?
Speaker 1:It's going well, man and I am super excited because we have Nancy Blakey Noel on the show today. How's it going, Nancy?
Speaker 3:Hey, glad to be here with you guys.
Speaker 1:That is fantastic. Well, like I said, we're super excited to have you on the show. So, if you don't mind, give us a quick introduction to who you are and what you've been up to and how you help advisors.
Speaker 3:Sure, I'm a sales growth consultant to financial advisors for over 25 years and I serve all kinds of firms very much focused with the RIAs, work with the solo advisors, as well as firms typically up to about 20 advisors in a comprehensive way to build their sales function and sales skills, and then also do training initiatives for larger financials regarding sailing.
Speaker 1:Yeah so.
Speaker 1:I mean, one of the biggest things when it comes to selling is a lot of people look at it like it's a bad thing, right? I've always taken the mindset that you're always selling something. Even when you're a little kid and you're trying to get your parents to buy you a toy at the toy store, you're selling them on the reason why that exists. So it's not necessarily a bad thing at all. It just gets a bad reputation. So I mean, when you first got into this, you know what did you like about it? What kind of brought you into? Hey, I want to help people be better at this and make it okay to maybe say the word selling or sales.
Speaker 3:Okay, so you ever hear that you teach what you need to learn, right? So I was totally against sales. I totally against it. Any job like coming out of college that looked like it was going to be sales. I just was like no, I did end up in an office my senior year, uh, spring break, uh, with a large financial like. I didn't realize what the job was. I had to take an assessment and it was all these questions about calling on friends and family and all this stuff and I flunked the test and didn't even get an interview and, you know, walked out thinking, yeah, this is not like for me ever. So, surprisingly, I ended up in financial services.
Speaker 3:I was in banking for years and, as the head of HR and training, even still had these negative biases. Like I didn't trust the mortgage guys very much and you know I just really like it was just an interesting thing and they were always worried about their compensation and such, and so I still, you know, I stuck to that for like six, seven years and then, when I got out of banking, because it was a, because I worked for a terrible human being I started exploring selling solutions for this toy company. I was working for Brio Toys, Brio Wooden Trains and just started learning about that. Just like you said, selling isn't a bad thing and it's how we look at it. But if selling in my world, selling is a conversation where you're helping someone else make a decision, right, so that decision could be like when you're a little kid or whatever very self-focused, but in professional selling it's really not self-focused. It should be a bigger winner's circle than that, as I say.
Speaker 3:And so in doing that I realized that even in HR and training and recruiting, I was constantly selling policies, commitment to adhering to things, job opportunities and such, and I really started leaning into too many people are having a barrier with their mindset around selling. That's keeping them from whatever level of success they want. Then layer on the financial advisor world and I really know that most people I can't ever say absolutely 100%, but most people will be better off in their life if they work with a financial advisor and often the barrier to them getting the help is the financial advisor Right. So I really have, you know, leaned in for a lot of years into equipping advisors to get out of their own way and learn how to confidently and successfully skillfully be able to guide those conversations in a way that is beneficial to everybody involved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's really cool. I think that what you said the mental hurdle and it's interesting to see where people get that hurdle from it could be their upbringing. It could be that they're not confident enough in their self or their services, Right, I mean, what are some other kind of common roadblocks that you just see, Because we see it all the time? And people they know they need to sell, they know they need to do it, but they're just like ick you know I just it's grimy to them, it's a huge ick factor.
Speaker 3:So I think it is all life experiences and it might not even be a personal experience they ever had with a bad salesperson. But there's TV shows don't depict salespeople, as you know, good people movies, et cetera, right. So we're constantly have this narrative that salespeople aren't to be trusted. And so you know they're, they're working against that. The other thing that I find interesting and I remember oh gosh, it's over a dozen years ago a large financial out of New York realized that one of their barriers to recruiting financial you know, finance majors was the students' parents. So the parents don't want their kids to go into sales. We sent you to this school, you know, to get your finance degree. You're their kids to go into sales. We sent you to this school, you know, to get your finance degree. You're not going to be in sales now.
Speaker 3:Or I used to do a lot of work with at the field, engineer sales people and you know I would talk to friends I knew, people at my church etc. About these opportunities and they're like, no, they're not, they're not going to be an engineer sales. Like there's just this right, all of everything is is against it, and so I think it's, it's everywhere, and I keep saying that we need like a funny sitcom or something where and I know that because, like, even the office and those things didn't really depict it like in a good way you need something that people can grab onto and say, oh, look at, they're not bad people.
Speaker 2:Well, that's that's where Brock, the Martin Scorsese of insurance, comes in. He can enlighten you on a video.
Speaker 3:There we go, that'll be good.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that one of the coolest things that I've ever heard when it talks about people, about having conviction around what you do and what you're selling and the services that you have, is actually believing, getting to a point in your process and conviction behind what you do that you believe if these people don't take advantage of what you're doing, they're going to be better, they're going to be worse off than if they were to have you helping them, right, and if you can honestly get to the point where you believe that and you seriously believe that there is something to that, right.
Speaker 1:It's one of these things to where we talk to so many financial advisors out there, and even when we were starting BC brokerage, I'm literally thinking to myself if these people don't work with us, right, or someone like us that offers what we offer, there's a chance they're going to send their clients to an insurance agent out there that's going to take advantage of them, and I know that we're not going to do that right, so they're going to be better off working with us or the financial advisors. Oh, we hate sales, we hate all of this stuff, but you believe in what you do, right? Yeah, you believe that you're a good financial planner, right yeah, absolutely Okay. Don't you think that if you help these people to become your client, you don't get that opportunity? So I think there's something to that.
Speaker 3:But even I 100% agree with what you're saying. Right, conviction in the value of what you're providing is really important. But even with that, I know a lot of fee-only advisors that have very strong conviction, you know, in the service etc. And they still cannot get themselves to consistently act on their selling efforts, like they will always drop to the bottom of the priority. You know, and they're oh, I'm going to be too busy if I do this there's always these internal, these internal factors, and so you know there's, there's a whole I call it the circle of beliefs, right? There's the belief in yourself, there's a belief in the role around selling, and then there's the belief in the value of what you're providing. So belief in value can be really high. But if belief still in that selling process or belief in my confidence around those things isn't high, it still doesn't play out into activity for sure that is helpful to other people for sure.
Speaker 2:So what are some solutions that you've found? Like, is it process? Is it people like memorizing scripts? Like brock and I, we had northwestern mutual training. Oh yeah, it was. That's hardcore, like 10-3-1, pick up the phone dial. You know there's so many different forms of it, but what have you seen? You know from your experience and SalesPro Insider that actually works and moves the ball forward.
Speaker 3:So just quickly. So I'm from Wisconsin, so like Northwestern, mutual is in my backyard, like almost everybody I know, somebody's kid ended up in that program and we'd all get the phone calls from Johnny that we've known since was two.
Speaker 2:Like hello Mrs.
Speaker 3:You know, but? But unfortunately, their whole program adds to a whole lot of negativity as well, because people know that there is this process and they're supposed to just dial out and they're supposed to, you know, meet these numbers and all these kids don't cut it, and you know there's just all this negativity. So what have I found that works? It's got to be a conscious effort that somebody wants to make that shift right. It's a shift and it can't happen. Brock your motivation with hey, don't you want to do this? That's all great, but in motivating someone else like that, it's a very short-term thing. So the person has to commit. So they have to. I'll tell them look for evidence of when selling wasn't a bad thing. Who have you worked with that has been really valuable in your life? And if they hadn't been the leader of that conversation to help you make that commitment, that's going to be a detriment to you. So an advisor that I'm coaching out of New Jersey just yesterday was telling me that he's going to get solar panels for his house and that he's still fighting whether this person is self-serving or not, you know, and continually following up with him. He goes, and then I realized this guy has done nothing bad to me except continue to show up and say, well, this was important to you, what are you thinking, you know, et cetera, and he goes, but I still have to fight it Right. So so you know, look for evidence. That's one thing. The second thing, then, is, yes, process is important, and so you have to make sure that your process, though, is aligned with how your prospects decide Right. So you've got it. It's got to be in alignment with that so people can follow processes, scripts.
Speaker 3:I personally do not love scripts. I love outlines, because to me, scripts are what people are afraid of. People can tell when someone's working off, a script doesn't feel feel genuine, doesn't feel personal, and they don't like it. So I say outlines like you have an outline and really, when you're working with people, you have to be able to flex, and a conversation is an information exchange. You know it's not a script out and they don't have a script to follow. Information exchange you know it's not a script out and they don't have a script to follow, and most people don't know how to buy what you're offering anyway. So they, they don't, they can't follow the script that you're following yeah, and so yeah yeah, and what if they?
Speaker 2:don't fit the script right, then you're stuck, then you feel like you don't even know what to do. Um, yeah, that is so interesting. I mean one thing and Brock and I talk about it all the time it's like you know, you have like the Northwesterns and those big mutual companies. They have these huge budgets and they can do training and put on these things. You know you go to the independent world. No one wants to do training because they know how much of a you know time suck it is. It's. Only so many people are going to get it at the end, so no one wants to invest in it. And I guess that's kind of where you come in to fit that void right On the independent side. So I mean, what kind of people like when people come to you and they're like hey, nancy, I've been following you, I know I need some sales training. You know, like, who are these hot prospects? Or like where are they out in their industry for you?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's interesting. So it's a mix. It's advisors who maybe have started their own firm and there's more and more of them. Because I've been that my first year, I can afford your training Like I know that that's going to be an important piece. Otherwise, you know, they get into that first year, 18 months, they realize they're running out of room for their tolerance of the money they had saved, and now they're desperate. I've got to do something and so that's. You know they come in different ways and then it's figuring out what is their problem. Is it that they're not filling their funnel? Is it they're not converting their funnel? Is it that they're not being consistent in acting on their process? You know, and diagnosing, you know what is it that's their biggest priority, that they're going to get the biggest value from and then building the rest of their plan from that.
Speaker 1:So when you talk about you know, when you work specifically with fee-only advisors like I know when I was at a big mutual company there's a meeting every Monday, right, it's like how many calls did you make this week, right? How many meetings do you have on the book? Okay, based on this, at the end of the week, we know you should have X amount of life insurance policies sold. This, at the end of the week, we know you should have X amount of life insurance policy sold. But when you go the fee only route, or when you go XYPN or you go, you know you have your group, your kind of group that you're a part of, that you can bounce ideas off of and such. But it's not so much like the accountability because you started your own business, right, they give you the tools, but you have to be able to do it.
Speaker 1:So what's happened is is, you know, we've been able to see some advisors that are very excited to do it and then six, seven months in it's kind of like oh, kind of what you just said, like I had, I had so much runway. So how are you coaching them? Is it like hey, maybe you do need to get on the phone. Maybe they don't like being on the phone, like what? How are you telling them to actually get clients so?
Speaker 3:so, again, it depends. I am so amazed at some advisors have really figured how to fill their funnel. They've got a great lead flow but they're just not converting anybody. And they're you know, they're so disjointed. But if they have to fill their funnel, it's helping them put together a specific strategy for themselves, right? So you can't listen to someone's podcast and say, oh, I'm going to do exactly what they're doing, unless you have the exact same type of prospect, the exact same processes, et cetera. But by working through a process to say, okay, who is it that I need to get in front of? Then doing the fact, finding the research in different ways on where do they hang out, who are the influencers, what are the organizations that they care about, all of those things. Then, based on all of that, creating the now, how am I going to use my network? I call it the circle of contacts, how am I going to do that to get those conversations initiated, and it can look very different. So, and I believe that if the lead gen strategy is not aligned with that person's interests and tolerance, level and style, they'll never execute it.
Speaker 3:So, for example, some advisors hate doing public things. So having a plan where they're going to give you know public seminars and things. They're going to avoid it. Some people hate doing anything on social media so if their plan is heavily focused on that, they're not going to do it.
Speaker 3:So it is the transparency who are the stakeholders so that there's accountability? How are you going to measure this? You know who are you going to report that to and with the independent advisors, right, they don't have that. That you know managerial aspect of it. So over the years one of the things that I've realized is oh my gosh, they need more of that.
Speaker 3:And study groups you's all the XY's so good at getting people in study groups. A lot of them turn into social things so they're not accountable. So I started monthly group coaching where they report on metrics and there's other programs that do that, because without that I also encourage them find another advisor that every week you're going to talk. When I started my consulting firm 26 years ago, I had a woman and we met every Monday and every Friday. On Monday we had to declare what we were doing and we were doing cold calls off of manufacturing database lists in Wisconsin, and then on Friday we had to tell each other what we were doing, what we had done and all of that, but that was was without that.
Speaker 2:It would have been hard to have done that because nobody's paying attention yeah and I feel like in the fee-only space, you know, people come from two directions. I'd say one. They come from like the insurance side um, you know sales driven and then they get on the fee-only stuff and then they're very like anti-sales and they're like kind of getting in the way of themselves. And then there's also people who are coming from more of like, say like a TD, ameritrade or Schwab, and they're coming in for more of a support role.
Speaker 2:But it's funny how I guess you want to be a financial advisor and you want to help people and you're worried about your tech stack and all these different things, but you a business owner and you do need to have clients and it is your responsibility as a fiduciary to also run a successful business, right, um? So I guess it's also like some people they just get so anti-sales that it's like they need a different synonym for the word sales. You know, like it's just rewiring it Cause you know, like, like the three of us were salespeople, we're like yeah, of course, like just shake them, like come on at sales, like just get out there. But for some people it's like, how do you get them over that ledge? And it's like you can't be so on one side be on sales and then flip the fee only and be so anti-sales that now you can't even run a business. So like what are your thoughts there and how do you get like that entrepreneur think cap on for some people.
Speaker 3:Well, I think it comes down to again finding what's going to motivate them. They have to find their motivator, like what is the reason they're doing this business? What's at stake for them, so that you know they can, because at some point you just have to do it right. You just have to be able to do it. And so sometimes it's like little baby steps, you know, for things, but getting together a plan that they buy into, and sometimes it's really small at first, but it's it's having. It's having a plan that they're acting on, and having accountability, transparency, measurement, all of those sorts of things. And then it is, though, also helping them be comfortable with. Well, what happens when I am talking to somebody, right? What does that look like? How do I guide that conversation? And giving them the framework and the tools and that outline to be able to do that, but also opportunity to practice that and get some of the awkwardness out of the way, and it's a behavior change. So behavior change takes time.
Speaker 3:So I work with some firms for years and years. So one firm I've been working with for six years their whole culture. You could not use the word sales. You could not use it Like the whole culture. Nobody used it. There was only one big rainmaker, whatever, and I had told the founder it's going to take 18 months to three years to make a dent in that and he was like really, and I said yes, so we did see big progress at three year.
Speaker 3:It was finally last year, year four, that I was on site there and during a company meeting somebody said, oh, don't forget, we have our sales meeting at 10 o'clock. I like almost cried. I was so happy, like there was a public thing, a group of people were going to get together in the conference room and talk sales. But it was four years into consistent messaging, making things okay, whatever, it's not. You can't flip a switch for most people unless there is some desperate situation. You know people can make big, drastic changes. After a heart attack they can stop smoking, or you know, but but it's there's just there's a lot of mindset to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the other thing is, like you said, you know some people. They might be coming to you, they just started their firm and they're running out of runway and now their backs against the wall. And it's funny because now it's fight or flight, right? Or you mentioned, you know you listened to the podcast that we had with Stephanie Bogan and you mentioned an advisor it's one of her, like top testimonials who just felt, you know, running an okay practice, doing a couple hundred grand, but just felt like they were still underachieving, right, and whatever can be measured, can be improved or tweaked upon. So I think it's really just a matter of having a process and people they know they need to do it. It's like people they know they need to go to the gym, but what's the disconnect? Why aren't they doing it? Why don't they have a sales coach either? It's so interesting to see.
Speaker 3:Well, so you know one thing, and this is going to be very unpopular, I think, but I also think benchmarks get in the way.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:I think benchmarks get in the way. I work with advisors who aren't in the XY community, right, so they don't have those benchmarks of 12 new clients the first year. You're doing good, you're on a good path. And they have 40 clients in their first year because they didn't know they shouldn't you know. And so I love this one, this one woman. She was a piano teacher, her husband is an actuary. They decide they're going to start a financial firm because he wants to start his own mutual fund eventually. Da, da, da da. So she's like, well, I'll just study and I'll get my CFP. She has four kids that she homeschools. And so she just went and got you know. She studied, did the CFP, and then she contacted me and said you know, I need to figure out how to sell. We put together her strategy. She came through sales training and she had 60 clients in her first year and she goes. But I don't know that I'm doing that good. She didn't know that there was this expectation and so she just did what she was doing and it worked.
Speaker 1:You can find your own process. That's the thing.
Speaker 3:Wait, wait, wait. You both want to talk?
Speaker 1:I'll go real quick. No, it's a muscle too, right? So once you figure out what works for you and your system and the way that you can reach people and the way that they respond to you, and you get accustomed to that and you say this works, there's also something that comes along with that confidence of I know I can do it now, right. So now you have gotten past that mental barrier and I'm sure that you've seen that a lot, nancy, with clients that you're coaching that are like I just called them. Actually, I just called them and they answered and they said they'd meet with me. Now they're a client, right? Yeah, now I know that that's a system that I can keep doing and now I can get more and more people that want to work with me, like there's sometimes. It is simple as that and then all of a sudden you just see them, you know, fly.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Sometimes, sometimes but I have to say less often than you would think One success like that typically doesn't move the whole thing, like because they still are suspect it really does. I mean it can be within. I mean, in my 12 week training I see unbelievable growth that can happen in 12 weeks. But they have consistent activity, accountability and focus for 12 weeks. They can't ignore it Because sometimes when people aren't comfortable with selling, they'll do their part.
Speaker 3:All of a sudden they get four or six new clients and they're like you know what? I'm too busy now, so now I'm going to put away my lead generation stuff again, like, right, I'm going to, I have to get these onboarded clients. And now they have three months where they're doing that, and now they're they're starting from scratch again and then they've got to build it up again. And so I always say it's about consistency and persistence. You know, and and and that if you, if people would, if advisors would be consistent in their activities once they define what those right activities are, that fits their style, that fits the people they want to, that fits their resource constraints, all of that, if they would just be consistent in it, that's how they're going to see consistent new clients I mean, but going to see consistent new clients I mean.
Speaker 1:But it's this start and stop when people aren't comfortable, yeah, and doing it every week, yeah, do it every week. I mean that's, that's one of the big things I know for you that makes more sense. What you're saying is because in order for you to get comfortable with it, like you have to keep doing the same thing over and over and over again. It's like, okay, you ran a mile at the gym, are you going to go back tomorrow? Are you going to do it again? And for me, I would say, the first time that I was able to call someone and they agreed to meet with me, that was like an open thing in my mind. I was like, okay, this is possible now. And then I continue to kind of work that muscle. But it makes sense that I mean it just takes time for people to actually feel like they're going in the right direction and they can consistently keep heading that way.
Speaker 3:Well, and then one bad experience can also set them back big time One person saying something negative or then being in a social setting and somebody kind of giving them the coach holder. And I always joke, even for financial advisors, when I'm at conferences and you know you're sitting there at breakfast or something and people are like who are you? And I'm like, you know I'm. You know, nancy Blakey, noel, I'm a sales growth coach. I'm not kidding as soon as I say that half the people at the table will not make eye contact with me anymore. I don't know what they think I'm going to do to them. But like, there is just this, like Ooh, and in fact um years ago, at one of the the lives for X, y, p, and this man kept coming to my booth over the the the day because I had a hundred grand bars I always have a hundred grand bars and like the fourth time he came, I said, well, you're back again, you know. And he goes hey, hey, I don't need any of your stuff, you know.
Speaker 3:Whatever, I mean, he was just so at first he was just like, yeah, oh, we were talking, and I was like get away from my candy bars we had the same thing happen to us.
Speaker 2:We were I watch a middle-aged man like wait for my like eyes to turn away, like just out of eye contact, and you ran over and I'm like, hey, buddy, like you know, it's okay.
Speaker 2:Like I know you want a little snack, like but it's so funny because, like you know, just because like age or you know, lengthen the business like yeah, it's important but it doesn't. It has no sign on how successful your business is. I had someone tell me they're like the x. The XYPN benchmark is the average is 14 grand or something. The first year revenue, so that's average. An average grade in school is a C right and that's a 2.0. Nobody 2.0 in college. So do you want to be average or not?
Speaker 3:Right, all right, no, it's. Yeah, I'm that that you, you guys can see that because I just recently, I'm like I I'm going to be public about my thoughts. The benchmarks get in the way, yeah yeah, I mean good good because it enables people to be their best.
Speaker 1:They don't don't live by the average standard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the most successful advisors that we've been working with. They didn't have an option. They're like I had a short runway and I had three kids staring at me every day. I got home from work, so there was no wealthy spouse that was floating the bill. Still, it was operation go out because I had no other option, and for some people, that's what it really takes, and that's why either you know you perform or you don't. Either you got it or you don't. And you know you perform or you don't. Either you got it or you don't. And you know you got to get to it and realize what your strengths and weaknesses are. If you know sales or relationship building, or whatever synonym you want to use, is not your strength? Well, good. You need to work at it, though, and attack it. You can't just like, let it fall by the wayside and underachieve in life and in your business.
Speaker 3:Or you have to find a way to plug that in another way, either with a partnership or some type of other way of filling your funnel. And some people say I just can't get new people to talk to me, but once they talk to me I'm great at converting them. And it is a different mindset and a different skill set. So I would say there's two parts of selling. You've got to be able to fill your funnel with the right people and then you need to be able to convert them. And if one or both of those are not working, the solution both needs process, it both needs skill, they both need accountability and measurement, but the skill sets are a little different in that for sure, even here.
Speaker 1:How often are you getting into that? How often are you getting into that mindset part? Because I noticed one thing that you said right there is I have people coming to me saying that I can't, and if you say I can't, and that keeps happening in your brain. I'll tell you one thing you can't.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the minute that you say I'm not, I'm choosing not to OK, that's a different thing. But like, how often are you having to help people get over those types of things just to be able to get the process started?
Speaker 3:I think it's always part of the work that I do and I am a very soft coach, right, like I am not in your face whatever. There are coaches that do that I have found for me. I just don't feel it's just not my style, like. I mean, I grew up with five brothers, I am tough, but I kind of feel like I fought so many battles just to survive I was 18. I just don't need to do that as an adult. So, anyway, I'm very much an encourager, right, and I ask a lot of questions, you know, trying to get to the root.
Speaker 3:But really I do know for certain I've done a lot of, you know, training in psychology and communications that once you get people to put together a plan that they believe they can do and have at least an action that they're willing to take, you can start moving the needle right. So even when they're putting together their lead gen strategy, like really I have them do an exercise to get to their why, like, why are you doing this right? And they'll say, well, you know, it's for my family or you know, because I want this much revenue and I'm like all right, and so what? What does that mean to you? And they have to answer it. And then you say and so what? What does that mean to you? And the third time, and typically the third response to that is real. And whenever somebody gets to their truth, in that I always get goosebumps. I don't know if it's their tone or whatever, but like I, I know that I've heard their truth.
Speaker 3:Finally, yeah and then that's what they need to lean into. You know I need to do, you know to do this because I don't want to be a failure in my wife's eyes, right, like I mean, whatever it is, it's, it's never that first thing yeah, and it's hard as a salesperson, right?
Speaker 2:because a lot of people they just want to tell you what you want to hear, right, they want to tell you the script. They want to be like you know, I don't have problems, people you know, and it's like one of those things like to get to that next level, you have to do some self-reflection. You have to look in the mirror, see where, where in your business, what's going well, what's not going well. Is that something that's just? It's what.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know. The other thing that I see, like in the actual conversion conversations that happens is people that aren't comfortable about their role in selling. Right. Again, you don't have to be a let's go sell. Let's say, you know, like we don't. I just I don't believe that you have to do that, but you have to be convicted that your responsibility is to help, guide them and help them make a decision, and to cut out the information that they're probably focused on that doesn't matter and help them feel that they have what they need to make that decision. And the first decision is do I want help? Am I willing to accept help? Are you the person? Am I willing and committed to pay for the service and do my part?
Speaker 3:And so advisors who aren't comfortable with selling often make the sales conversations so broad, they start getting into financial planning and they cover all these things and I'm like all you're doing is confusing and overwhelming, and then they won't make a decision to work with you because they're now do they agree with that recommendation? Do they agree with that? Instead of you know, are you a person that I can trust, who has the expertise that's going to help me achieve outcomes? Right, they get caught in the detail and advisors who are uncomfortable with selling get too far into all that because they want to prove their value, they want to start giving them and they just complicate. They complicate the whole decision making for those other people. So it's like getting out with you know what is it that's necessary to discuss early, the whole decision-making for those other people. So it's like getting out with you know what is it that's necessary to discuss early about them getting help.
Speaker 3:And help doesn't have to be for problems I can't remember it was Brendan Fraser that was talking about that. You know the problems, but problems are one thing, but often I think, especially like in the fee only way you know a comprehensive planning approach way is that sometimes the problems aren't big enough for people to feel compelled to pay for a service. But you being there as a thought partner, you being there as you know, a guide, someone with expertise, somebody that can help them capture opportunities that they didn't even know, so it's not a problem. They don't know that, oh, you're paying too much taxes in this or you're not insured at the right level for this, but the advisor can help them get things in a better place that they maybe never envisioned, and that's why some of the questions that people say to ask during discovery meetings around well, what's going to make this financial advisory relationship good for you? I'm like most people probably don't know how to answer that question.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Because, they don't know what the possibilities are, and so we're setting them up to give an answer that doesn't really matter in the long run.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, more open-ended questions. I think the other thing that you've kind of said is like stop getting into the weeds so much. I think is what you're really saying a lot of the times, right, like one of the things that we did learn from some sales training that I had is we had like read this manual, this is what you're supposed to do. And then the question was asked what is the goal of the phone call? Brock and I was like to get them to believe in you, to get them to want to work with you, to get them to like no, no, no, brock, what is the goal of the phone call? When you call them and you ask them for a meeting?
Speaker 1:I was like to get a meeting. They're like that's it, that's it. Stop right there, hang up the phone, schedule a time and then the next time that you meet with them. That's a different part of the process and conversation and like there, I feel like there's so much to really kind of staying in your box at times and letting the other person kind of tell you you know not necessarily what you're going to be good at or what your services are, but asking open-ended questions like so, why did you reach out initially Right, and that conversation can go in a really great place. But I think getting into the weeds and overwhelming people is never the answer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, confused and overwhelmed people don't make decisions Right. So so, even in that, you know and again, most advisors I work with are not making cold calls to just get appointments settled Right, that's not. It's just not the work that they do. But it's like you know you do, and I especially think in the fee only comprehensive way, you do have to give them hope in that first meeting that they're talking to somebody who could potentially help them so that they're willing to commit additional time, effort, et cetera, to a future conversation. But yeah, you know, being clear on what is our objective and that's part of the conversation is at the beginning, with those, you know, prospective clients, agreeing on what, the what the objective is. So you know what we're going to today. You know people say today is we're just going to, you know, see if we're a fit for each other. Well, what does that mean Like and where does that lead to? And so you know it's adding to it and and and.
Speaker 3:At the end of today, the only decision is going to be to identify whether we should schedule the next conversation, because what you need, you know, at surface levels, is going to be connected with us, and that's you're going to. We're going to identify the next best step for you, but getting really clear, which takes away the prospective client's apprehension, comprehension. The other thing that I'm finding and I think that people that are uncomfortable selling are really leaning into this is that, whatever we can do, so the whole process right. So how do we make it easy for them? That should be the key. How do we make it easy for the prospect to get what they need at each stage so that they are confident in making a decision and that it starts before the first conversation?
Speaker 3:So, even if something is scheduled, what are you doing to reduce their fight or flight? Right? What are you doing to let them know? Here's what's going to happen. Hey, we're going to meet via Zoom. We will be on video. You know, if you have a partner or significant other, they should be there. You know, if you have kids in the background, that's okay. Or, because we're going to be discussing important financial matters, it would be better if you had a babysitter, if you have small children. But like just setting the stage so that all those I call them the foundation, you know, has um, as those hierarchy of need things are addressed, aren't now what's on their mind and they can show up better, ready to have a conversation. Um, like anything that the advisor can do to just help that whole journey, you know, be easy, because the easier it is for them, the easier it is for us.
Speaker 1:Yep, so how are you? I'm interested that you said that, and I don't think there's nearly as much cold calling going on as there used to be, right.
Speaker 3:No, no, no.
Speaker 1:And, and I think, if that, works for you, it works for you. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Whatever you want to do, maybe calling somebody that's in your warm market it's not like you're picking up the phone book. But how are you seeing most advisors do that now, like getting clients if they're brand new, right, because you get the chance to talk to a lot of them? How are they doing that? How are they building that client base initially, when they're just trying to get on their feet?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I mean it's using existing networks, right. And I always say whoever you talk to in your network, it's earning the right for them to give you another name, not saying, you know, take out your contact list, give me that whole you know thing, but it's you know, being clear on who you're serving and the value you have. So, as you're talking to people like and I'm sorry, I don't believe in the whole, let's get together and have lunch so I can tell you what I'm doing today. That is all about you, right, that's all about you. It's. You know, if it's somebody you know you're getting together to, you know both discuss that. But you've got to be able to be clear. Then this is the work I'm doing. Here's who I'm serving and why. And then I always say make an offer to them, say, part of what I do is offer free 30-minute calls to people you know and care about, who may be struggling with their retirement readiness or whatever, whatever. And so you make it this clear vision of who it is that you want to talk to. And then you know, so you know. And then here's how you would introduce them to me, you know, if somebody comes to mind.
Speaker 3:So it's a softer approach, but it's leveraging your network. You know so many people are. You know I do think you should. You know you have to make your announcement when you're getting started and let people know and make that compelling on social media. But all in all, a legion strategy should have three types of touches in it high, mid and low touch. So you have to have the high touch, the one-on-one conversations you're having. I recommend that people should have at least three conversations with a new person every week when they get started. If you can do four or five like I was remember learning if you do at least one a day, within 20 days, the follow-up activity, everything with that, will keep you going for like the next 60 days. So having this short list of who are people that I can lean into, it's also then being willing to say to people I'm starting this and I'm looking, I'm looking for, you know, ideas. If you have any suggestions for organizations, you know that that you know are looking for speakers or such.
Speaker 3:But it's leveraging your network. So, high touch, direct, one-on-one conversations with people that are prospective clients or can connect you to them. Then you need mid-touch activities. That's you getting in front of many people at once, but in a live way seminarsinars, webinars, association group things where you're there. And then you need the low touch, which is all the digital, social et cetera. And so the mistake that I see is so much effort being put into all the online stuff right. So if you can get SEO going and some people do figure that out very quickly and get some good things, get your association listings, all that, all of those things are good. But if most of your time is being spent in low touch, you're not going to get clients fast. It takes longer, it takes. You know all of that. You need a mix of those touches going consistently from the start.
Speaker 3:So, that's, like always, what I like put together your plan where you're doing all. Some are going to be more comfortable or uncomfortable, but the faster you need clients, the more high touch you have to spend your efforts on.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:And then I keep hearing oh, I'm doing another designation and I decided I'm going to get my EA. Why, More letters behind your name are not going to get you paid.
Speaker 2:It's fascinating though, though, but that's what some people, you know. They think that they need to have more education and they need to prove themselves, which is true, but what you really need is just reps and to get out there and do it right, like there's some advisors, like it's. It's crazy how some get off to a quick start and others don't, and it really is like what they were focusing on in the first 12 months. You know, you don't need a CRM. If you don't have any clients, you don't need CRM. Oh my gosh, you don't need it.
Speaker 2:Hallelujah to that right. You know there's so many people, and, of course, it's the bigger voices that are going to tell you social media, social media, social media. Well, great, it's worked for them, right, but to sit here and act like everyone can operate a podcast, to sit here and like everyone can just get leads off Twitter, like it's no tomorrow, it's a fallacy. It really is. And some of the bigger RIAs that are not XY planning I'm talking billions and billions and billions of dollars they have no social media presence. Obviously, something's working, so don't hate on it.
Speaker 2:Do not hate on it and that 14,000 annual fee. I've heard some of our fee-only planners. Their largest client pays them 60K annually, 120k annually. The big fish are out there. So it's like get out there. Don't hang out with all the scared folks, right? Because there's so many who are scared. It's okay, it's supposed to be slow. You know life is long. Well, no, it's not, it's very short and you should get going because it's going to be over before you know it.
Speaker 3:You just brought up something so important. You need you know the four, the five people I think it is you spend the most time with is you know, your biggest influence. So if you are hanging around other people who are struggling and who are not, you know, getting their business going at the level you want to look at, how do you, how do you get into the people that are in the successful advisors? This is what I love about the field. You know community are very generous with their time for other people and so you know, if you know somebody just said they love Kyle more out of Minneapolis and I'm like, well, reach out to him. He'll, he'll have a phone call with you. You know like, just surround yourself with people that are going to get you where you want to go, not let you feel comfortable where you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, Well, no, this is good. I, I, um, thank you. You have so many good points and it's been great talking to you and I think it's definitely worth people looking into what you're doing. Uh, where can people reach out to you, Nancy, if they are interested in coaching or they want to just explore more? Maybe do a discovery call.
Speaker 3:Yeah, go to wwwsalesproinsidercom and you can schedule right through there. Reach out to me at nancyatsalesproinsidercom, connect with me on LinkedIn. Any of those ways will get you to schedule a conversation with me, where I'll then focus on you and help you figure out where you're at and whether I can help you or not. That's what selling is right. I'm a problem solver. That's all I'm doing. I'm a problem solver.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 3:The best thing that an advisor told me once Joe Morgan, he said is what I realized in really digging into all of this collaborative approach to selling is that I am not a different person in my selling efforts than I am as a financial advisor. It's the same skill set, the same care I have toward people. I can still be that in my selling efforts and I was like, yes, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me. I really do admire what you guys are doing. I love, like I told you before we got on, only Fee Only such a clever name. So here's my idea for a podcast. I even have like studio space for over a year. I want to do a podcast where I do live sales coaching for advisors.
Speaker 1:That would be awesome 30-minute live sales coaching.
Speaker 3:That's what I think I'm going to do.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 3:I love it so after the new book launches in the fall and I have some more time. That's what.