Episode 19: Acceptance

JD and Mordecai run through how we accept and maybe struggle to accept the many emotions we struggle with.

Timestamps:

0:02-07:32      Acceptance 

07:32- 12:55   Acceptance & Courage 

12:55-19:15    Acceptance & Judgment 

19:15-25:39    Acceptance & Discipline 

25:39-29:27    Acceptance & Desire 

29:27-35:03    Acceptance & Anger 

35:03 -42:07   Acceptance & Human Nature 

42:07- 47:04   Perspective 

47:04- 53:27  Metaverse/Matrix

53:27-55:13  Accepting Fate 

55:13-57:59  Acceptance & Uncertainty 

57:59-1:01 Free Diving

Transcript

Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:02

JD, I feel like we're finally like we've almost made it. This week, we're talking about acceptance, which I feel like is kind of at the base of the Enlightenment peak that we're after. So I feel like we're like, you know, it's like the groose at top, or maybe like, you know, it's like Sinai and like, we're at the bottom of the, of that ultimate climb. So I'm excited.

JD Stettin: 0:28

Yeah, yeah, it feels going through the chapter, reading this and have this experience. The first time I read or listened to the book was like, ah, that's it. We made it like, what could be better than what we're in already. And I mean, you know, spoiler alert, there's more to come, guys. So there's a few more chapters here. A few more levels, but listening to his descriptions of acceptance, the level of consciousness we're talking about today. Sounds amazing. I'm okay. You're okay. It's okay. A feeling of belonging, connectedness, fullness, loving, understanding and being understood. I'm like, you know, I would have just like, sure all I'm all in on this.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:13

Yeah. Yeah, I think I was thinking about it. And I feel that in some ways, I feel like this one, this acceptance may be the most important of the scale. Right? Yeah. I don't know about you. But I have, you're on this journey. Like, it's definitely feels like a lot of times it's two steps forward, one step back, or maybe like one step forward, two steps back. Right. And you're always trying to Well, someone sent me a thing last over a texted me that this thing last week that it was a Hebrew date. So the 23rd of the month of Sivan. And there is some type of practice that I don't exactly know what's supposed to happen then. There's this whole practice of like, well, light to candles, and give to coins to charity, and then say these prayers, right, in this order, you know, at this time of day, right, and then God will judge you favorably. And I was thinking that that's exactly the kind of thing that'd be like, all over, you know, historically, it's like, oh, yes, right. If I just do that, by just light the two candles, right in exactly the right height, exactly the right time of day. And then I take five steps forward, and three steps left and two steps forward and right. And then I squat down, right and turn around five times, then you will right get in, right and it feels like that's been a lot of my like spiritual journey is is just it's looking outside for things. Right. And it's listening to Ram Dass and how he did it. Right. And it's like, Well, okay, he went to India, what do I have to put it India to find a guru like, Oh, crap, like Mirage is dead, so I can't get get that outlet isn't open. No, but it's like, one more this meditation, or that or journaling? Or maybe if I just do the artists date on from, you know, the, our friend Julia Julia Cameron. Right. It's like, if I just do this one other thing, then that will take me to awareness. And I realized that that anyone who reaches that state, they say that like, it was with you the whole time, it was right in front of your eyes. All you have to do was was open them. Acceptance, to me is this key where we can accept, like, all of our, all of our stuff, like all of this stuff, like we think, Well, I have this like, spiritual part of my life. And then there's the part that like, I'm less proud of, you know, when I'm procrastinating or don't know, you know, the next thing to do at work or whatever or just feel like I'm behind on a project, right? There's, like, all these parts of my brain that are occupied by things that I'm like, you know, maybe not as happy about, right, but this idea, ultimately, it's all part of the same thing. And it's all made by God. It's all part of God's image. Like it's right there. So I feel like, you know, I'm thinking out loud a bit, but I feel like acceptance that in some ways, as soon as we can, like, stop seeking, you may find that you just kind of like, it's right, it's right there. So, what do you what do you think about that?

JD Stettin: 5:02

Yeah, I think interesting that we were talking you kind of leading up to this, if, for those of you following along the technical map of consciousness, there are two stages between where we left off last week, which was courage and where we are today, which is acceptance. And those are neutrality and willingness, and kind of hearing you going through that thought process, there's a way in which kind of, I'm seeing this spectrum of, you know, starting at the bottom, shame, guilt, apathy, these feelings of like, really, like, low can't just at the mercy or the whim of the world, and like a very beaten, downtrodden, like a learned helplessness in psychological terms. And coming out of that into maybe fear, desire. Anger is sort of like fighting with the world, you know, you sort of start off, you've given up your nothing, and now you're like fighting and pushing against the world. Then you get to pride, courage, neutrality, where you're sort of like, you're still taking a very active role, right? You're being courageous, prideful, you, things matter to you, you have a little more agency, now you're successful, you're getting things done. And then you drop into this place of flexibility, neutrality, willingness, acceptance, to like you're saying, where you're just like, ah, actually, it's not, it's not being like, it's not it's not kill or be killed. It's not I'm either, you know, down and depressed, or I'm the guy in charge, and I'm pushing people around, it's, oh, actually, letting like, it's acceptance, to me really sounds like what letting go is, in its essence, it's just this, like, the first subheading of the chapter everything is perfect as it is, you don't need to be like sad about it, you don't need to be proud about it you don't need to do anything about it or not do anything about it. It's already awesome. And that this really does feel like this, this threshold. Like you were saying earlier, Jewish mythology, like you're at the base of Sinai now, like you, you're like, Ah, we're about to we're crossing over, letting go of feeling that the world is either controlling us or we need to be controlling it. It's just sort of moving beyond that.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 7:32

Yeah, yeah. I was thinking, you know, imagine. Yeah, the narrative of like, the American, I guess, capitalist entrepreneurial journey. And if you had to create, let's say, the same table or map of consciousness for the hard charging entrepreneur, right. So you would probably have similar at the bottom right, it would be you know, maybe guilt, apathy, fear, desire, anger, pride, courage, right. But now, what comes after that, if you go down that, you know, that entrepreneurial path right now, it's like, victory, you know, vision. Power. Yeah. It's 10x. It's disruption. Right? It's IPO. You know it. Yeah. Right. And then and then big house, big car, you know, just all the, like, flex, right? That's, you know, so it goes. That's one path that you can take to courage right in some ways. It's like you're getting to this like diving board now. It's like, alright, courage, now you're diving off. And now you are going into battle. Right? And now it's about like that fight. But this goes exactly the opposite way. It's like you get to courage. And now you think you're ready to go off into battle. But really, you're now get to neutrality, willingness, acceptance. Right. So I wonder if this is also this point between courage and acceptance, or neutrality, right, is that in some ways, is maybe like the fork in the road? Not that you cant I mean you can be spiritual and entrepreneurial certainly, I think both both you and I are however, like LinkedIn would have you go like in one direction. You know, is as far as what's praised and glorified, right. In the in, in our world, you don't have a lot of people on LinkedIn saying yeah, this deal fell apart. And I'm okay. Right? Like I really like I really messed up, I screwed up this deal majorly right it is my fault. And I'm okay. Like that's right you don't have people saying that.

JD Stettin: 10:21

No, no no no that does feel like an interesting I like that thought of like reaching this point of courage and then it's sort of it's easy and I can say this because I feel like I've done it it's easy to just go down that road of like, again increasing control Yeah, from from feeling you know, the helplessness down at the shame, guilt etc, to like, Oh, now I have power now I have control then you do it over over myself. I'll try to have power over others over the world over my own destiny. And it does feel like that's a different, whether or not it's a conscious decision. Or maybe it's a, uh, well, or it's just a question we could ask because sometimes, you know, it's hard to like to know and we do have so much social and cultural pressure in a certain direction. Don't think any of it is necessarily bad persay but, but the moments of like, Oh, am I am I continuing to grasp? Do I have this like chokeholds on my life, my experience? Or am I like softening and opening to the larger the larger experience and the way he paints the picture of acceptance, it's just, it's just so nice. I as I confess to you earlier, I thought we were already in love today. So I had a little bit of extra homework to do this morning. So I listened to this chapter twice on my on my walk and it's just, it's so nice letting this acceptance wash over me and in a different way than in earlier chapters where they were about more difficult things and then I could feel a lot of resonance and similarity was like, Ooh, yeah, I do that listening to acceptance. There's just like, like melting into this like, oh, yeah, that's so nice. And that's so right. And I've I felt that way a few times in my life and like, gosh, wouldn't it be nice to just hang out here more it really this felt like a warm bath on a cool evening listening and reading this chapter?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 12:37

Yeah. Yeah, it's so and it's funny just the synchronicities that happen. My friend Travis, I don't know if you've met remember, he used to be at Greystone, but maybe didn't overlap with you.

JD Stettin: 12:53

Yeah. Not so much directly, anyway.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 12:55

Yeah. But he's still he's in real estate finance and his but also was like a fellow journeyer, you know, friend for a very long time. And it's so funny, because he sent me this, like text message at 548. This morning. He's an early very early riser. Talking about how you heard a, there's an interview of an old Chinese Daoist, who at the end of his life, was asked what was the most profound lesson he had learned in his life studying the Dao. And he said that the lesson was that worrying is unnecessary, and is one of the most harmful things we humans do. And then, Travis gave, gave an example of a business situation I came up and he had, I guess, you know, messed up on on a certain he confused two deals and, and he was normal. He's like, normally, I'd get totally stressed out about this. But he's like, you know, what, I just gave up the worry. And realized that it's, there's no, the worrying isn't going to help. So you know, I raised my hand I said, Yeah, I messed up here and everything get will get fixed. Which is fine. But there's something about just accepting. Yeah, what happens like we make a mistake, we sent you know, on on whatever we sent something that that was taking the numbers and then then we and then we just think about oh, now what's going to happen? People are going to suffer because of my mistake, then they're going to be upset with me and then like, you know, then they're never going to want to have a relationship with me and then I'm and then I'll be bankrupt and lose my house and my family and then right like that's kind of like the.... exactly. So but this idea of acceptance is you can you accept just what you did, and also and accept the worry, it's like, oh, yeah, I'm feeling worried about this. And let me feel into that. Let it pass through and then just do what what I have to what I have to do. One of the things I thought was very interesting. He says that with acceptance. This is another characteristic of the level of acceptance is that we are no longer concerned with moralistic judgment of good and bad. It just becomes obvious what works and what doesn't work. It's easy to see what is destructive. And what is optimal without judging anything is evil. Right? Like, how much of what we do is, you know, in your head is like, Oh, this is like, good or bad, right? Like, I didn't I got my workout in good. I didn't get my workout in bad. You know, I meditated. Good. I didn't meditate bad. Right? And it's, you have to just get to the mean, I have that with like dieting, certainly. Because, you know, whatever. It's whatever thing I'm on. It's like, oh, if I had this many calories, good, not, you know, this much protein good. It's not bad, right? And then you drive yourself crazy. Because now it's like, well, instead, what if you just paid attention to like, what makes you feel good? And what makes you feel what's working for you, and what doesn't work for you? And if you don't do something that works for you, that's, that's, that's okay. You know, it's, I like going to synagogue in the morning and praying, right? I like doing that now. But this morning, I was I haven't been getting good sleep. And so this morning, I was like, You know what, I'm just gonna let myself sleep. And whatever time I wake up, I wake up, you know, and I still didn't sleep so well. But I didn't go to synagouge this morning. So, but it's like, okay, so is that bad? No, it's just I was just, I was actually doing what works. Yeah. So I feel like that's also just a very interesting distinction that we can come to.

JD Stettin: 16:57

Yeah, and I think it's so again, like some of these other things, noticing how big did in this is to our language and experience of even talking about like, oh, this restaurant is good. This restaurant is bad. This meal, excuse me is good or bad? Like what? What silly ways of talking about things? Like what what does that mean? Did you enjoy your time at the restaurant? Maybe you did. Maybe you didn't? You know? And did you enjoy this particular dish? Maybe you did. Maybe it was just like this idea of it's good or it's bad. It was a good movie. It was a bad movie. Like, who the heck are any of us to say that about something? Yeah, even even as simple as my example, as food, let alone other people or systems and thinking about Yeah, oh, this seems to work. This doesn't. This seems destructive. This seems creative. This seems expansive. This seems constrictive. Like they're just these, again, more useful is that if I could have said better, I'm just gonna say better ways. But there are these more, just more generative, more comes from talking and thinking and interacting in this way, I think then does being stuck in, in good and bad. And things like this always make me think of, you know, niches Beyond Good and Evil. And that those concepts, those platonic ideals of like light and dark. They're just very, very limiting. Yeah, and, and even just trying to catch language choices, like noticing. When, if and when I use the words good and bad, like just trying to catch that and notice and be like, Oh, I just judged that. Yeah. Well, that was a bad call. Just now. You know, what call it's like, Was it bad? What was it like, what am I what am I judging of it? Was it right? Okay. Might have been suboptimal? It might not have been the fastest way to figure out a deal. But it's not so bad.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 19:11

Yeah

JD Stettin: 19:15

That's a hard world if you think in terms of good and bad because to one of the things you were saying earlier about, like screwing up or making a mistake, that it's not just that these things work in polarities, if you believe that there is something good. It then like it demands that there's bad so if you really think that like closing a deal is good. Then, then it's crazy to when it does go bust through to not feel bad because you thought you were playing in this paradigm. So it's very hard to then shift or step on but no, no, no, actually, it's only good. If it happens. It doesn't happen. Okay, and so can like we were talking about, and I think you'd asked earlier early on in our conversations, you're like, oh, wait a minute, we also have to let go of good, you know, good feelings or positive feelings. And it's like, yeah, I think that's where acceptance is such a cool again, whatever threshold fork in the road, whatever it is, it's like, it's not about these are good feelings or bad things are good states or bad states. We're accepting all of it. We prefer to be acceptance or love than like grief or shame, absolutely. Feels a lot more fun and open. But grief and shame aren't bad. People that way aren't bad people.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 20:39

Yeah. I think that this is something that that there's a self defeating current, that's part of I feel like all spiritual disciplines and religious disciplines, where there's this idea of, there's some destination that you're that you are trying to get to. Right, that's different from the where you are in the current moment. Right. So, you know, in Judaism, right, we always talked about, you know, there's like the book like Missy, like you shower, and like the path of the just, right, and it goes through like these different levels, right. And the highest level is, I don't know, the path, like, the level of prophecy, or, there's some other level out like your, let your sub optimal, right? Where you are any even in eastern philosophy, right, this idea of like Nirvana, like, there's, you know, that or Samadhi, or whatever they, they call it's like, yeah, there's a level of Buddha, and then there's you. Right, in Christianity is like, there's the level of of Christ. And then there's, there's you, right, and you're and so what we do is, like, we end up spending our days, like, kind of, with this unspoken comparison and measuring stick against this ideal that we're not at yet. Yeah, so and I have been journaling about this a lot lately that that even like, with, it's very frustrating with this whole spiritual journey, cuz it's like you want it you wanna be able to control, right? It's, it's cool, you can do it, you can do it with your body a little more, right? I can say, I want to have a six pack. Right? And I can, like, there are certain things that I can do right now, those things are not easy. But I know that if I like, deprive myself of, you know, certain amount of calories and do crunches every day, or planks or whatever, then, you know, at some point, like I'll, if I'm in a calorie deficit, and I'm doing crunches, like, at some point, I'll I'll get there. Right. But I want to do the same thing. I want to have the, the Enlightenment diet, right? That's kind of like so much of what I do is like, like, I just want to get there and grab it. Right? So. But you can't you just can't grab it. It's not something that you can that you can grab. Yeah, I heard Alan Watts talk recently. And he was saying that, um, like in Zen Buddhism, and maybe in like, some in yoga, it's like, that they actually. They're, they play a game with you. Right? And they say, control, like, control your thought. And they know that you can't control your thoughts. Right? But you're there and you're watching, you're meditating, and you're watching your thoughts. And you're like, oh, God, it's like, you know, I can't do anything here. Like, they just keep on running. And then at some point, you realize, oh, I actually can't control my thoughts. And then you accept that your thoughts just come and go on their own. But it's like, but they they it's kind of a trick. And I don't know what the line is, but like a fool and his folly like, well, not some, you know

JD Stettin: 24:24

Some last thing a fool and it's folly. Yeah.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 24:27

Well, like, yeah. So I think that what he says is like, just, if you say, ok, control your thoughts. Don't think about anything. At some point, you realize, oh, wait a second. I actually have no control over it. And then you can accept that and then you almost like, fall into the hole, right? It's like all these I feel like all these practices, you're talking around the whole, you know, and you're like moving around the hole around the hole around the hole. And then at some point, I think you just give up and you've and hopefully you fall in. Right, but the thing is, you have to accept that you may never fall in and that's kind of part of this, like, you know, it's this iterative it's this to use a coarse term like a mindfuck. Because it's like you're not you have to say look, maybe this lifetime I'm never going to achieve awareness and enlightenment, right? Are you okay with that? Right that it's just not going to happen all this work you're never going to get there in this lifetime. Can you accept that? You have to be able to accept that before you can before you can reach awareness or enlightenment.

JD Stettin: 25:39

You have to give up on desire you could get there or might get there before you can get there or at least realize that you can't right I feel like you can't get there I think that are recognizing that you can't even necessarily you can't give up the desire you can't make yourself give up that desire either. I don't think because right that's there's that right? That's desiring to not desire which is just right. So you recognize that not only can you not get yourself there, but you can't like undo the thing that's getting in the way of you get you that's like not in your that's not on your hands, right? That is not something either one of us no matter how badly we want and that the podcasts that you shared with me the other week of mine Bialik interviewed Michael singer she's she's like in tears talking about how she like so badly wants to get to where he's going or where he is and where he got to. And he's like yeah, that's like that's not how that's not how it works. Yeah, there's no and then you know, you're talking before about like the feeling of like, oh, do I need to go to India God guru because right Ram Dass talks about how his there's a word for it that like his guru love is what like, opened him up in the world. And Michael Singer, to me annoyingly is like, when mine like asked about his like tree, you know, quote, unquote, enlightenment. He's like, it doesn't matter. I will tell you. And there's, it's like, Todd just tell us but the point is, it doesn't matter. Like, yeah, you could, I don't know. You could, like walk down the block and see, like, a roadkill and become enlightened. You know, like, there's no, there's no process. You go to India, you read the book, you can listen to our podcast, you can do none of the above. Like, yeah.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 27:29

Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited for you to read that book. Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach, because it touches on this about like, you know, you can't force these things into happening. You know, like, you're right, like Ram Dass says that that would open him up was the first time his guru looked at him. Right. Now, Michael Singer says that what did it to him was sitting on a couch at a party, when when he was in school, and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he was able to just see himself from a third party perspective. Right? You know, and Gay Hendricks, who's also like a spiritual being like, he says, you know, he was 300 pounds, and he slipped on the ice and he bangs his head. And that's what did it for him. It was the craziest thing. I was talking to my son, my nine and a half year old son. And he said, he fell down the stairs at his mom's house, like a year and a half ago. Right? And he said, he said that, that he's like, since that time, I can kind of like see myself in third person was like a nine and a half year old. I was like, What do you mean, he's like, Well, you know, when that happened, he was sliding down the banister and then fell off the side and like, bangs his head. He's like, I could kind of like see it happen. I could see myself falling. And since then, I can I can kind of just see I can kind of watch myself. And I'm like, Oh my God, you're nine years old. Like how do you do that? Right? So I have to slide down the banister, and

JD Stettin: 29:07

I can see it now. Every morning. You're like, okay, here we go.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 29:10

Okay, I'm gonna bang my head again right? Now, still not. So. It's like, but you're right. It's like, give up on achieving it. Give up on the desire to achieve it. But also recognize that you can't get rid of the desire. So like good, good luck.

JD Stettin: 29:27

Right? You can say this. You're blue in the face. You're never gonna like, be like, oh, you know what, screw it. I don't actually care. It's not gonna happen. That's not who you are. You're never not going to care about this. Right? Until Until you somehow magically truth magically do. Yeah, and, and that's like, it's such a it feels so again, counter to our culture of doing like, like what's with Napoleon Hill. Have a guy who like interview thinking Grow Rich tycoons? Yeah, like we so desperately want to find these like patterns. Like it's funny thinking about the Napoleon Hill doing this for like, you know, quote unquote enlightenment, you know, because Napoleon Hill is his for those of you who aren't familiar, he kind of went around interviewed, like wasn't the Rockefellers and then people like that who really like major tycoons and try to find what was similar about them or their path to power and their journey so that as a guide book or a manual for others to achieve greatness, so to speak. It would be so funny to do that, like you kind of just did a little survey of enlightenment, it's like, all hit your head, go to a party and get like, there's no, it's so hard for this part of us the doing mind to wrap itself around. And he talks about that, in acceptance, there's a decreased preoccupation with doing this a growing focus on the quality of beingness itself and the perfection of our own inner capacity for caring. And loving lovingness. He says, and it's just, I was having this experience the other night, Monday night, a friend of mine had recently ended up like running into my ex and chatting in bed, and we're sitting at dinner, and he was telling me about it. And I just felt myself get so angry, and express some of that not in a hurtful way. But just like as a hey, that's a really tricky thing, a lot of stuff come up, I went through dinner, came home, sat outside, it was raining and sat outside under my overhang for about an hour, Monday night, like just seething, like really sitting there. And I just wanted to like, part of me just wanted to go inside and put on a movie or do something. But I was like, no, I am just going to sit here. And I kept trying, as as the anger kept coming up, and we'd go in these waves of like, a peak anger. And then it would just dip down to, like a depressed nothingness, like a real giving up. And trying to like, as I'm doing, I'm like, Okay, so like, what am I supposed to be doing? Again? Am I just supposed to breathe into this? Am I supposed to like, love this anger? Should I like scream or jump and let the anger move through me like, what I'm just sitting there for an hour, alternating between feeling my feelings, and then judging my feelings and judging myself for having feelings, wishing I weren't angry and not understanding why it's such a big deal. And it's so and then like, looking back at it and thinking about this acceptance. And this, you know, the perfection of our own inner capacity, just like, yeah, like, that's all, all the things doing it being with it, judging it, being judgmental about judgment, like, that's all that I can actually do. Yeah, it's so tempting to, you know, parts of the chapter he talks about, you know, judging people, and we realize everyone's okay, and everyone's doing the best that they can and, and in my moments that I have space, I totally see that and feel that. And I think he gives the example of like a frightened animal who's cornered, who bites you. And of course, that's what an animal does. So too, with people, when people lash out at us, that's all that they're really doing. And it's amazing how sometimes that feels so obvious and clear. And other times, like, the judgment feels so obvious.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 33:27

Of others or our ourselves?

JD Stettin: 33:30

Both, like in that, well, its like feeling both. Like oh, my ex was awful and terrible to me and being like, I'm such a shitty person for holding on to that for so long. And again, there's no like wishing that away that changes that. In all the parts of me that wishes I didn't care and I could see with more love and clarity and kindness like I care. I mean, you know, I found myself in a rage that the Supreme Court news last week, and I know that's not like personal to me, Roe v. Wade wasn't overturned by someone looking to like, hurt me or my life. And I had, like, so angry, so deeply angry and so judgmental and actually reading that when, you know, anything is evil or bad. I'm sort of like, you know, yeah, generally I agree. But like, this is an exception and, and just feeling that come up. And it's just, it's just there sometimes. And that's the thing. It's not always there is no there is no stasis in any of this. I like I don't know that we always maybe maybe we do but always live in acceptance, there is a time when that anger comes up. And otherwise I was feeling accepting and you know, one with the birds and the trees and then like, anger arises, judgment arises and it just happens. And yeah, and I think part of acceptance in this chapter in this level is accepting that, as simple and difficult as that comes.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 35:03

Yeah, you know, my dog he, she will. However, however they choose to identify.

JD Stettin: 35:12

They

Mordecai Rosenberg: 35:13

Exactly they, but she'll eat anything that you put in front of her as dogs do. Crazy. Yeah. And so like, occasionally so like we'll give her some food, like from dinner, I'll put it in her bowl. Right and she'll eat it and then then like, she'll, you know, it'll upset her stomach. Right? Does she feel badly? Because she because like, oh, man, I shouldn't have eaten that hotdog. You know, now, you know her stomach hurts, she has diarrhea or whatever it's like does the dog beat themselves up because they ate something that wasn't good for them? Or do they recognize not that they have recognition, but they recognize that like, they're a dog? Like they're gonna eat? What? That's what they do. Dogs eat what you put in front of them. Right? Because for 100 million years, or however long it's been, that's part of their DNA is that they eat what's in front of them for survival, like they eat it. And sometimes it's a grape, and they die. Right? That's, you know, that can happen, right? But it's just part of who they are. You know, as humans, we, our minds, like, that's our experience is like, we're, you know, we're just, we're thinkers, and we worry, and we have guilt, and we beat ourselves up. Right? And so and then we get upset that we that we do it right? So we're like, we're running late for a meeting. And we're like, I can't believe I'm late. Oh, and why am I worried about like, why am I getting stressed about this like, well, because there's hundreds of millions of years of evolution that have created that brain inside your head? That does this, right? It worries, it imagines it thinks about what could be right. And that's why it can do amazing things, right? It can think of the possibility of going to the moon it can think of the possibility of sending, of creating societies on Mars, right. And it can also stress about the fact that today's garbage day, and I forgot to take the garbage out. Right? And now what? Alright, so it's, it's like that acceptance of it's just, you're just human. You know, and you're like, you don't look at me, we have this such a distorted view of ourselves compared to how others see us. It's so night and day, right? Like, if I told you about whatever it is that I was, you know, like, yesterday, I was taking my son to the airport for a Team Tour. And drop off was that was at three, I thought it'd be fast. And I'd be able to get into the city for like this event. And then it ended up it was like I was there for like two hours, right? And so I'm looking at the clock and like this event is happening. Right? And I'm like, oh, shoot, like now. I'm not gonna be able to, like meet with these peoples I want to meet with. But then it's like, well, yeah, that's just like, what, that's what humans do you worry. Right, then I was also able to look at it and say, and so what? Right, like, would I rather well, I could leave now and my son will be okay. But I would rather spend the extra like time with him make sure he's like, comfortable when he leaves. Yeah. So it's acceptance of that, like acceptance of the situation that you're in. Right? And also acceptance of like, yeah, all that stress it's just part of it's you against 100 hundreds of millions of years of evolution. Billions of years of evolution. Right. So like, don't it's not you it's just part of the state of being human.

JD Stettin: 39:21

Yeah, yeah. It's an it feels so still. I feel like to especially like achievers, doers, optimizers. It's like, it's so hard to let go. It's thinking you're done this story. This example of you were supposed to go to this thing in the city. There's, I remember I think it's an Anthony Demello line where he talks about if you cultivate this like real love of of life, and you sort of love all the flavors and it doesn't matter which one you're tasting. In a way that, as someone who again, maybe has been very stuck in some of these other lower levels for a lot of time, a sense of like, I need to work out to, for this to be a good day or like I need to do morning, I need to do morning pages and workout and to accomplish my work goals. And then it is a good day. And then when something gets in the way of those and they don't happen or don't happen yet, or whatever it is, I can feel myself like, you know, like tensing or pulsing or like, well, I guess I mean, if you think in terms of good and bad, and you believe that's necessary for good day, if it doesn't happen, definition, it's not a good day. And, and this idea of everything sort of already being perfect. It's like reading that into your story, too. It's like, okay, you had a plan to go to this event didn't happen. But it doesn't actually matter. Because whether or not you go to any particular event, do any particular thing, accomplish anything, get stuck in terrible rush hour traffic in the tri state area coming home or not, doesn't actually matter. Because everything that is, is perfect. And if you're stuck in your car for two and a half hours coming home in traffic and missing your event, okay, it's an opportunity to like, listen to a podcast or three, or call a friend or music or stare at your windshield or shit, maybe that's your enlightenment moment, you know, you're sitting in traffic, like, wishing you were elsewhere. And all of a sudden, you realize it doesn't matter, I don't know. And that part, I still feel like, very much caught on or very much a hamster on that particular hamster wheel of got to do this got to eat that on to make sure this happens in a day or on this day. And if it doesn't, that's somehow like breaks the day or this, this notion. And seeing the limitations of that. Like, the more we talk about this and explore it and like spend time in this chapter in this mindset. It's like, wow, how limiting to feel like, I need anything to happen in any particular way for life to be good.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 42:09

Yeah. Well, yeah, I wonder if it would be an interesting exercise to like maybe in the morning pages to write about yourself in as if you're writing, like a fictional story, you know, and it's like, JD woke up, and immediately felt that compelling pressure, if I don't work out, you know, another day will be lost. Yeah. Squandered. You know. He had a deal, a closing like later that week, and felt the weight of like, the entire existence of the universe, like, you know, on the basis of if that deal closes or not, right. And if you like, write about yourself, like, as a character in a novel, you know, it's like oh, that's so funny. Because like, that's JD right. That's the character, that's that character, right? It's like, you know, you have these like Jack Reacher books, that I read some times like these, like, just kind of, it's my junk food, where you won't have to break up my deeper stuff. But, you know, it's like, just very predictable. Mr. You know, kind of shoot him up. Yeah. But it's like that. It's the same character, right through every book. And it's like, oh, yeah, like he has those issues. Right. And obviously, this is what's going to happen, right? But if you can kind of like, it's what was that movie like stranger than fiction? I haven't seen it in a long time. Right. But we're almost any here's like, the narration happening of like, his own his own life experience. Yeah. Right. But that I wonder if that would help kind of like, just give you some appreciation for like the character that you are, in like the novel that is called your life.

JD Stettin: 44:05

I really liked that, that feels like such a useful. My therapist did something with me this week that we were doing zoom rather than in person. And it was trying to help me create an opportunity to see myself and she was like, just imagine that there's a you that's also on this side of the screen with me looking back at JD, and somehow, I don't know, the idea of like, visualizing that on the screen was easier than doing it in person just like envisioning like another talking head next to hers on the screen, who's actually me. And that was such a neat little heuristic for turning it around on this thing. And so I really liked this idea of trying to write and narrate that way and seeing because I think in the form of whatever philosophy spirituality that we dip into, we do believe in a way that the light JD or the Morty is like a version of the self, you know, the character who's worried about all the things we're worried about isn't the whole, it's a piece of it and to be able to get that experience of seeing it, that might be a nice way instead of, you know, throwing yourself down the stairs.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 45:16

Right. Right. A gentle, yeah--

JD Stettin: 45:20

Gentler practice of that.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 45:24

Yeah, it's funny, because like, normally when I record with you, I'll hide self view. So that I just have, like, just you on the screen. So when you said that about your practice with, with your therapist, you know, it's like, oh, you know what, maybe I'll put my self view back on because now I can, like, look at myself. And think, like, oh, that's like, that's what JD is seeing, you know, and I can kind of look at myself. It's interesting. You know, its actually very interesting, because it's only zoom. It's only since we started using like, zoom and teams, that now you're used to kind of seeing yourself the way others see, right. Although, if you're in a meeting, I'm on a phone call. I certainly don't see myself and if I'm on a meeting, you know, I don't you don't see it, but like now, I see you and I see me.

JD Stettin: 46:19

That is interesting take on that. I've always found it. I don't know distracting strange and like you I just typically high self view. Almost always once. Once I figure out that, you know, the camera angles fine. And you can't see that I'm not wearing pants or you know, whatever. Whatever the case may be on a zoom. But that's an that's an interesting, that's an interesting practice. Seeing that, that self that's cool. Um, I try to play with that a little. See what it does, and how it is.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 47:01

Yeah.

JD Stettin: 47:04

I wonder to what degree someone actually just told me. I forget what came up and he was like, oh, it reminds me, you know, when you met my friend, he was like, waiting to close on an apartment or a condo in the metaverse and I was like, I'm sorry. Like, you know, the metaverse. And I was like, so just so I understand your friends, like waiting to close a deal on a virtual piece of real estate. And not like a website, but actually, like get a condo where like someone's avatar could then live or rent. And I was like, that's not at all like the deal, that has nothing to do with the deal that I'm doing. That's like real building serial people. But it's just made me think you say that now I'm like, Ha, I wonder the degree to which you know, the metaverse does become a place where people spend time. I mean, I don't really foresee myself doing that I barely have social media. And this is like the only zoom call I do. But you know, I don't know, stranger things have happened. I don't know where we'll be in 30 years. But what will that be like to then will that help in our seeing of the self? If we have some sort of Avatar and Metaverse, we could really see as like, oh, there's like digital JD, you know, Metaverse, JD or will that just create yet like more layers? And I suppose you know, there's no answer, and everyone will have a different experience of that. But just in that way. Well, can that be a tool to help him see the self as a character? Is that just like, adding, you know, more layers, more characters, more identities to the self?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 48:53

Yeah. Well, I think it depends, right, you know, and it's about like, just kind of opening your eyes. I mean, it reminds me kind of lucid dreaming, you know, where lucid dreaming is where you can wake up and realize that you're in a dream and that you can control everything right? You can. There are practices around how to bring about lucid dreaming. But I've never, I mean, maybe like once or twice I was able to do real lucid dreaming, but I was trying to do those, do the diet that allows you, not diet but like the actions that foster it. It's like some of the things are like every 30 minutes or every hour, right? You ask someone like, am I dreaming? Right? And then you start getting used to like asking yourself right, or you look down at your hands because in a dream you don't have five fingers, right or look at yourself in a mirror. Because dreams you don't see your own reflection, right and then you'll realize that oh, this is when you're in a dream. So that's what happened was I looked down on my hand and I was like, Wait a second, like, I don't see five fingers. That's so weird. Right, then I realized then I probably woke up. Right. But I think part of the thing with lucid dreaming is that to realize that, even when you're awake, it's also kind of a dream. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what you think about simulation theory, but I kind of believe it. There's kind of something a little off topic, but my son sent me something called Zipf theory. I think it's ZIPF, have you heard of this Zipf theory? Yeah. So they looked at, I think Zipf looked at all the words used in the British Library, and the frequency. So then he ranked like how, so what's the most used word maybe it was the, or whatever, you know, and then there's the second most and third, right. And what he found was that the second most used word was used half as many times as the most used Word. And the third most used word was used a third of the amount of times than the first, right, and the fourth most used word was a quarter, it was 25% of the amount of times the first, that the most used word was used. Then he found that you can apply this to anything. So let's say you could look at most populous cities in the country, for example, right, take the most populous look at the second most populous, and that would be like half as much as the first right. And then the third would be like a third as a third as much. You can look at peoples names, the most common names in the phonebook. Right? And the same law holds true, right? And like, it could be types of cells in the body, it can be like you can pilot like across, really, to anything. And it seems to hold true. Right? So it's really, really bizarre, like they don't understand how it works. But to me, it's like well, yeah, I mean, one way of explaining that is that we're in a simulation, and that's you know, that's just part of the coding, you know, so, which we, I don't mean that we're actually like, we're living in the matrix. And there's some kind of like, you know, robots that took over our brains, but there seems to be more than meets the eye. So, yeah, with the metaverse. I feel like maybe you can see like, yeah, like, right, is your deal? Is your deal really any different than the metaverse? You know, it's, what are you doing? It's like, it's imaginary. Like, there's money that's like, there's like imaginary money. That's like, going back and forth. That's going to be like, no one's ever going to actually see $1 It's just bank account numbers. You know, it's true.

JD Stettin: 53:10

It's true and right the money itself, you can't do anything with it. As it is, it only works in so far as you know, we all.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 53:20

Right, like who will remember. Right, like in 1000 years, like or in a month

JD Stettin: 53:27

Much sooner. Yeah, right.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 53:30

It's like, so is it real? So I don't know I feel like there's just a lot of this acceptance to me like courage was was one where I was like, alright, courage, you have to kind of work yourself up for it's like, alright, feeling courageous but like, acceptance is just like, yeah, maybe I'm feeling courageous and maybe not. Right, and it feels like a real gateway. Well, I guess the thing is, with acceptance is that it doesn't have to be a gateway to anything else. Right? Because acceptance means that like, maybe I don't make it to love or peace or enlightenment. Right, I'm just going to accept that. You know, I'm here for this moment in time. You know, I could have a heart attack like, you know, in the next second. Yeah. I saw that Dr. Cohn from MCA passed away this weekend. And you know, it looks like he was having breakfast and his wife went out to run some errands and came back and he was slumped over in his chair and just had a heart attack and that was it. Right. So like, we can just accept our state of just where we are, all have our emotions and fears and crazy thoughts and that really have not so much to do with us. Yeah, so yeah, I like it.

JD Stettin: 55:13

Yeah, there's something one of the notes, I'm trying to find that you sent over today about this that I really liked. As I pull it up, the zips law thing made me think of another thing that I just pulled from my notes, Bedford's law. 30% of random first numbers are one 17% are two, and so on and so forth. And less than five will be nine. And that's like, population, 30% of all city populations, the number will start with a one. But I think things like that, where it's just like truly like, wow, right? Yeah, anyway, so it made me think of that. But one of the things that you just highlighted, I think, as a phrase, from this chapter is certainty that our needs will be met. And that felt so huge to me, because going back to this, you know, whatever optimizer control or Doer part of me that's so strong. That part I think, was built up because of a lack of that certainty. And I think that part is in direct response, the part of me that's like, well, I have to work out meditate, get all my work done, do all the things, have social time, have reading time whatever the mechanisms because there's a part of me that's so deeply afraid or uncertain, or whatever isn't confident that my needs will be met, if I don't kick my own ass or kick the worlds ass or whatever the case may be right?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 57:00

Or inhales

JD Stettin: 57:03

Yeah, yeah, if I don't do it, it's not gonna, it's not going to happen. And the acceptance is about recognizing that like, that's an illusion. And, again, it makes sense not to denigrate any of our parts or our feelings. I don't think that is helpful. But it comes from, I think, a place of hurt and scarcity and being scared. Yeah. And that I think, in a way, a lot of us a type or a leaning people or whatever you want to call it, we're just really frickin terrified that our needs aren't going to be met. And if we don't do it, and the myth of you know, rugged individualism or whatever, like, I have to take responsibility, I have to do this. That's not how it works. If you were saying, inhale, we don't like Alan Watts always talks. You don't beat your own heart. You don't inhale your own lungs. You can't force yourself to stop breathing.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 58:02

Right.

JD Stettin: 58:03

Impossible.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 58:04

Right.

JD Stettin: 58:05

Impossible. The closest you can come and I know this from free dive training. You'll pass out, you can hold your breath till you pass out. You cannot hold your breath till you die.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 58:16

Yeah. Did you say free dive training?

JD Stettin: 58:18

Yeah.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 58:19

Did you do free dive training?

JD Stettin: 58:20

Yeah, sorry, I just passed my level one. So I have a long way to go. But I held my breath for two and a half minutes underwater.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 58:31

Where did you do this training?

JD Stettin: 58:33

I did this in Austin. And it's in a guy's pool in his backyard. It's not super. That's the first level. The second level is actually to go out to the lake and do it on like a guide rope and actually dive down. Level one is really about like breath hold and getting comfortable with that. But there are two to two or three different like dive licensing bodies that when I did is Padi, P-A-D-I. I'm sure there are places in you know jersey or New York its a day long class. Not a huge deal. But it's amazing. I mean, at the upper levels, people can hold their breath for five, six minutes. And our instructor he's only done at once to the point of where he passed out. And sowhen you practice at home, you sit on like a couch or on the floor with cushions and padding. So that if you do take yourself to the limit, you just fall over on the floor and then you wake up right away gasping for air. So yeah, we're not actually and our needs are being met all the time. And our little self that's so worried is doing nothing.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 59:41

Yeah.

JD Stettin: 59:41

Nothing.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 59:43

Do you see My Octopus Teacher? Movie?

JD Stettin: 59:46

What a gorgeous film. Yeah.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 59:49

Yeah that freediving, that's wild. Yeah. And I forget where it is. But there's like a place where it's some island they've been doing free diving for like 1000s of years because like, that's how they get in, even like the kids can hold their breath for like, you know, six, seven minutes, like crazy. Yeah. All right. Well, time for us to accept that our time has come to an end for this week. But I'm feeling good. This was a good discussion. So thank you for it. And good luck with your closing and with accepting, you know, the the outcome.

JD Stettin: 1:00:39

Yeah, exactly. It will or won't close today that much I know.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:00:44

That's right. But it'll be one or the other.

JD Stettin: 1:00:46

Exactly. It'll be one or the other, and probably nothing I'm going to do is really going to change it.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:00:52

Yeah. So might as well go practice some more free diving.

JD Stettin: 1:00:56

Yeah, free diving. Don't tell the clients but.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:00:58

Yeah, exactly. Alright, JD.

JD Stettin: 1:01:01

Great to see you.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:01:02

Until next time.

JD Stettin: 1:01:03

Have a lovely weekend.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:01:04

Take care, bye.