Episode 21: Noticing

In this perplexing episode, Mordecai and JD examine their journey from the perplexed to really noticing what they find perplexing, how to let go, and how to love themselves.

Timestamps:
0:01 - 06:36    Perplexed 

06:36 - 10:27  The Antidote 

10:27 -15:05   Pursuit/Spirituality  

15:05 - 18:11  Movement 

18:11 - 25:48  Letting Go & Love

25:48 - 28:19  Breath & Heart 

28:19 - 35:38  Self-Love 

35:38 - 47:00 Noticing

Books:
The Antidote: Happiness for People Who Can't Stand Positive Thinking by Oliver Burkeman

Transcript

Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:01

JD, here we are again. Still Still perplexed. I'm still perplexed. I don't know about you.

JD Stettin: 0:09

Yeah, yeah. Especially in the mornings.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:13

Especially in the morning. Do you find that you're more perplexed? In the mornings?

JD Stettin: 0:18

Well, I think so. I do think so I think kind of like, waking up shrugging off. I don't know, fog asleep and the cloud of dreams. Sort of even even after going through, like, whatever versions of morning routines that I have involving, you know, currently, that's some form of morning pages, some form of, you know, movement, be it exercise or stretching or something. And getting some of the like, top level work stuff. Put aside, those are probably I would say that they owe and caffeinated and probably what my morning ritual looks like. And and yeah, I do, I do find the mornings a bit perplexing. There's a part of my mind and body that still feels like vaguely like, why did we stop the whole sleep thing again? I know you get back there. Yeah. That's not to say that I don't feel perplexed other times the day, but it definitely I think morning's morning's mornings can be very perplexing.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:31

Yeah. Out of curiosity, do you find that the weekends compared to weekdays, like do you feel more or less complete, perplexed, you know, on one or the other, yeah, are the same?

JD Stettin: 1:46

It's I think it's probably a function of my, my social calendar. Like if I have things booked on my weekends, like if I'm getting up going to, excuse me do like martial arts training, and then going to the farmers market and going to some friends pool, like if I have things scheduled in that way, it feels like there's just a little less time or space for that perplexity, but on weekend days, where I have less scheduled the, I think there's just more space for not knowing for general confusion or existential thoughts. And in that way, whereas, you know, a weekday, even if it's a slower workday, there are still tasks and things that again, take up space in the energy and maybe the make make the access to the perplexity, just a little a little blocked. Yeah, that makes any sense. I don't know. How does that. What's your experience of that?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 3:02

Yes. So what I would say is, so my favorite time of the week is, like, the weekend mornings, I like to wake up, still wake up, like, you're early, and I'll set an alarm, but usually naturally wake up, you know, maybe like 637. And, you know, coming downstairs when the house is still quiet. And then just like reading, yeah, just and there's this feeling of spaciousness of the day, that is just like, especially when we don't have our, our kids here for the weekend. It's like, there's just there's, like, wow, like the hole in that is like you have the whole day in front of you. And I could just like, just just read and kind of just no loot, move into my morning routine, like on a relaxed day basis. You know, I during the week, I feel the loss of times I you know, there's just so much that you could be doing with the day, right? So I have like, I have like the now this pressure, the more routine feels more like pressure, I would say, and then it's like and then when then what am I going to work on first like, either it's Well, alright, well, we I there's if it's a very scheduled day, well then, in theory, I don't like my days overly scheduled, but it does take away some of the thinking. So that's, I guess, helpful. If it's done over the scheduled day, then it's like alright, well, what am I going to work on today? Like, what's the, you know, who do I have to get back to who are the you know, just kind of getting situated that way? So I did, I had an interesting experience this past weekend, which was, you know, it was still you know, July 4, it was the long holiday weekend. So, on Sunday, I woke up early like I do and went downstairs and was just like reading on the couch. And then my wife texted me she's like, You know, I can't sleep, can you come back up to bed and just you have to read in bed? So I was like, Okay, fine, I'll do that. So I went, came back upstairs and reading better than I fell back asleep. So and then I ended up waking up after that, like maybe like, like 1030. Right. So now, keep in mind, this is Sunday of July 4 weekend, right? We have absolutely no plans, no obligations, so that you know, the whole day in front of us. And yet I felt totally out of sorts. You know, I felt like, oh my gosh, I'm starting my day at 1030 How am I gonna get everything done? You know, like, now you have to pray and I have to meditate, and exercise and journal and like, now how am I good? Now? What? Alright, it might as well just like, forget it. All right. So then I ended up like, abandoning a big part of my morning routine. And then I was like, just like in a pissy mood, you know, so. Yeah, my wife was like, like, why are you in such a bed? But I was like, I'm just feeling off balance. I don't know, you know, just feel like I felt totally off off kilter. So that was it, that was interesting to just do it. Because it was, it was all just my own thinking, like, I still had just as much time to get everything done. Right. But in my mind, if I didn't check everything off by, you know, nine in the morning, or 10 in the morning, then I was like, behind in the day, which is, you know, obviously kind of like, yeah, which is just a silly thing that my mind decided.

JD Stettin: 6:36

Yeah, it's, it's kind of amazing how and, you know, we were trading some texts about this. But I'm rereading that book, The antidote. Happiness are people who can't stand positive thinking by all Berkman. Same guy who wrote that great book on time, or was it 4000 weeks, whatever it's called. And, and it has chapters in that poke holes, and so much of I think the like, self help personal development, productivity culture, we have, I think he does point to this, which I sort of hearing and what you were saying is, we set up these, you know, matrices for, for our success, or fulfillment, and we build these structures or needs that one we satisfy and make us feel like we've done this thing given us this power. And it's just interesting how at the same time, by doing that, we're then setting by definition, almost setting ourselves up for what you experienced, which is when we somehow don't get to do all of those things or those things in a timely manner, or whatever it is. It really feels like off putting and, and like there's a problem. And there's something wrong even as you clearly said, like, there wasn't you guys had nowhere to go nothing to you had all nice luxurious day. Yeah. And yet, we somehow we set we set ourselves up for that.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 8:20

Right? Right. So what his recommendation?

JD Stettin: 8:26

Well, spoil the book for all of our listeners, but he does a really nice. He kind of goes through the structure, the structure of the book is huge, he starts off, trying too hard to be happy, which is really an indictment of a lot of positivity, positive thinking culture. And then he goes through a few different sort of philosophies, you know, stoicism and Buddhism, he interviews at car Talay in a cool way. And just kind of slowly, I think, chapter by chapter, picks apart some of some of these notions of, of trying too hard or needing things to be a certain way. And it overlaps very nicely, I think, with the letting go work, and kind of letting go of some control or the need for control the need for things to be some way other than, than, than what they are and kind of recognizing that so much of this is a version of ourselves a fiction, right? A fictional version of ourself that's trying to assert some kind of identity, control, dominance, etc. And that really by awareness, which I think is another word for letting go, just trying to See and notice these things and, and being quote unquote real with ourselves about what's what's going on, when we set these goals, who's you know, who's setting the goal for what purpose, that sort of thing can really help us come to find a little more peace? With with our experience? Yeah, that's my, on one foot of version is really delightful book.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 10:27

Yeah, I have to give that one a a look. You know, I have been thinking like, as we're going through the letting go book that, in some ways, this whole idea of like a spiritual journey or spiritual pursuit. Like in some ways it's a sham. Because the whole idea is like, you know, like spiritual pursuit means it's something that you don't already have something that you're after, you know, and, and getting back to, you know, I was listening to our episode, last episode that that was published as of as of now, which was on on desire, desire, as we talked about as is, means that you don't have something to that, right. So this idea of like, I desire to reach enlightenment, I desire to reach some other state of higher state of spirituality or awareness. Right, that means that you don't already have it, right. And I feel like what it ends up doing, I feel like it's just a, in some ways, it's a trek, right? And it's like, it kind of like tries to drag you around and around the circle until you realize that it's like, that it's just utterly hopeless. And then you fall, you kind of dragged around and around the hole. And then as soon as you kind of give up the pursuit, then you fall into the hole, and you're, and you're, and you're there. Right, and you realize that you've always, you've always been there. So, you know, what, what are your Yeah, what's your reaction to, to that, you know, a little bit discounts, you know, our whole podcast and everything, but--

JD Stettin: 12:09

You think? I think it's great. I mean, I think, I think in a lot of ways, this podcast is a great, it's a great example of that of us kind of, you know, chasing our tails. And dig that, you know, in a public way. And trying to understand and craft but learn and, and I think that's part of the process is sort of chasing your tail to the point where, like you said, you just kind of drop it from exhaustion, or at some point, you're keen to chase and chase and chase, and you go, Oh, it's just my tail after all. Yeah, and, and maybe not, and maybe we'll just keep chasing, you know, our tails, I mean, some dogs will chase their tails their entire lives. And that might just be you know, either or both. Both of our, our paths, and that kind of might just be might just be what it is. And recognizing that like that. That's okay, too. And, and, yeah, so that feels totally, totally right, in a way. And it reminds me of, sort of this trope from from this other book, that I think Alan Watts, echoing Huxley, Aldous Huxley labeled the law of reverse effect or the backwards law which, you know, quoting Watts is when you try to stay on the surface of the water you sink when you try to sink you float. Huxley says the harder we try with the conscious will to do something the less we shall succeed. And sort of the interesting nature of that this you know, Chinese finger puzzle way of things sometimes. Which again, it seems to be contrast so heavily with so much of other kind of personal development or growth stuff that's all about, you know, visualize, see it focus on the thing you want and you'll get it and this feels a little bit more like go about your life and you know, vision out of the corner of your eye sort of thing things will come to you or not in that way. So, so yes, I don't know maybe maybe in terms of the this backwards law, we should just have a podcast about nonsense and Yeah, that'll help us. Yeah, I mean, maybe, maybe that's what this is. Yeah. So breed of nonsense.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 15:07

Yeah. There was a recently listened to a podcast that I meant to send to you. But it was with with Ido portal. Are you familiar with Ido portal? No. He he's he trained. Who's that famous UFC fighter?

JD Stettin: 15:31

Conor McGregor.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 15:33

Yes, that one said he trained Conor McGregor. And he's a movement coach, I guess. Israeli guy. He's based in Tel Aviv. So he did a an interview on on the Huberman Lab, which is with whoever the host is of Doc, Dr. Huberman. So so he's into you know, portal, so he's very into just kind of like movement and exploring movement. Right? And throughout the podcast are us being asked like, alright, well, what do you do first, like, what do you like? Okay, what, like, what's your What should your practice be? Like? What's the exercise that you do? And he says, like, it's so funny, because he says in like, it's very Israeli. He's like, I'm gonna try very much to not answer any of your questions throughout this interview. Yeah. And he's, and he's like, he's like, movement is just supposed to be play. Yeah, you're like, just try out different things. I'm not gonna give you a specific routine to do because then it stops being play. Yeah, so and he'll do weird things he'll like he does things with, you know, where he will, you know, walk try to try to balance on a railing, you know, or he said that, that he was in China for, you know, for several months, and he didn't like just like going to regular gyms. So he made it's very crowded on the city streets. And so he would make a game out of like, trying to walk like around the city and not bump into anyone, you know, and so, it's, but the more you're right, like, just we're used to this idea of like structured things like do these exercises, do this meditation, right? And then read these books, and then you'll build a skill and then you'll be able to do it. Right. But if you said like, if you think about it, you said, took a step back and said to someone, like, alright, like to a human being like, how do you okay, I'm gonna teach you about movement, how to move. You know, it's like, what do you crazy like I move all day long. You know, I moved my eyes. Yeah, I move my hands. Like I move my, my diaphragm. Yeah, I stand up, I sit down. Like even even if I'm sitting at my desk, I'm still moving. I'm twisting and moving around, I'm moving my head, you know, I'm moving my arms. So it's moving. It's just It's just what we what we did. So I thought that was interesting.

JD Stettin: 18:11

Yeah, there is and this I think, get in my mind that overlap between a lot of this thought and where we are in this chapter on love this week and letting go process that comes from or being able to just move and play it feels related to these things of of trust trust in the universe of being rather than doing or accomplishing of you know, letting go of a resistance that there's you know, intuition replacing thinking that's right. And editor that feels related to this notion of just just moving or letting go of all I need to have accomplished this many things that day or this morning to feel good or to have a good start there's something so be your base to me about like I don't know like a Tim Ferriss morning routine yeah this like okay, I have to have like exactly these potions I have to wake up exactly this way at this time. Do the seven other things top 13 Different kinds of supplements to breakfast the perfect balance of you know fat to break into vegetable you know, that that feels so tight and controlled in a way that just dis opposite like okay, I didn't join the gym. So like how can I do like interesting movement today? Yeah, well, what a different again, what one feels grounded in Love one feels grounded in fear, love slash trust.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 20:03

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, with with love, like so. So Hawkins like so you know, we can kind of get you move into that that discussion, you know, so he says that love is it's not it's different than what we've been talking about to date, it's not an emotion, it's not a feeling it's not like anger or fear or guilt or shame. It's actually a state of being. And he also talks about just you that you can open your eyes to all the love that's around you, you know, and the loving things that you do without thinking about it. Yeah, and when I was when I was, it's very interesting when you put on those glasses, right. And I tried to do that, you know, half of the chapter like, last last night, the other half this this morning, but I went to synagogue this morning, you know, and, you know, there was just someone on a, as I was driving, there was someone on a bike that was riding on the road, right? And I, you know, moved out of the way, and I didn't, I didn't hit them. Right? And it's like, Well, why didn't I hit them? Right? Because, is it because I don't want to go to jail. It's like, that's not I mean, yes, I think it's like the wrong thing. And part of it is automatic. But it's also because like, is it also because like you care about the fact that this is a human being and you don't want to hurt them. It's like, that's also, you know, there's love there, like you hold the door open for someone, you know, like, that's loving. I mean, I saw there was you know, two people at synagogue who were in their period of mourning of their, they both lost fathers over the last few months. And so now they're waking up early and coming to synagogue to say Kaddish for their, for their fathers. And it's like, that's an act of love, you know, you got got home, and you know, the dog is like, excited to see me and like, that's love. And when you open your eyes to it, you see that it actually is like, just, it's all around you. To me that that's a good exercise is just to notice all those things. You know, just someone I don't know, someone get, you know, they let someone have they let you go first at a stoplight. You know, it's like, there's all these little things that you normally just not even pay attention to, but are actually like acts of love, like that are happening all around you.

JD Stettin: 22:31

Yeah, that's such a such a lovely thought. And again, way of being in the world to think that it's sort of this underlying being That's right, who says, well, love is not an emotion, but a state of being. It's just it's just there. And it's just a way almost like, it's almost like love is just a placeholder word for, like, the, the just miracle of, or whatever you want to experience of existing, an interconnected world.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 23:22

Right. Right. Yeah, it's even. It's, it's interesting, I was thinking about the fact that we associate love with with heart, right, like, that's the, you know, that's the emoji and that's that, you know, it's like, when you think about Sure, and, and why, like, why is loves the heart and not the brain? Why is it not something that you like, that you think about, right, but there's, your your heart is really, it's the engine that keeps your keeps you alive? When your heart stops pumping, right, that's when, you know, when when life no longer exists, right? And so to think about that, it's that it's that same heart right? That's, that is love. Right? That is also like the same way that the heart is pumping blood and circulating nutrients throughout your body that there's also this great yet we're not thinking about it, we're not conscious about our hearts, necessarily, we don't really think about it, but to think that it's that same, that there's also some facet of, of, of love that's kind of coursing through our bodies that we can stop and pay attention to, you know, if we if we take the time.

JD Stettin: 24:43

Yeah, that's a really nice, really nice connection that feels good to think about them that they're kind of always they're beating love and the hearts beating in the background and it can be easy to lose that and get caught In in mind, and self and those sorts of modalities. And just by pausing and paying attention, you can note that the, both the heart and love are sort of already there are already just a part of all this. It may seem this is maybe a silly thought, but hearing that I was sort of like, Oh, I wonder why we don't connect it with breath. Like, I understand why we don't connect with mine, I'm just thinking of love as breath while there's the air, kind of this ebb and flow in and out. That also happens.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 25:48

Yeah, well, I have to draw it. Maybe it's just too hard to draw lungs.

JD Stettin: 25:55

Right? I see. too complex, not as attractive or compelling. A symbol? Oh, I guess maybe? Well, because you can control your breath a little bit, right. I mean, you could hold your breath for a couple of minutes. You can breathe in and breathe out the heart really. You can end up what's it called? Indirectly controlling and right via breath. If you really slow your breathing your heart rate internal slow, but it feels like maybe the heart is really just like you can't consciously to my knowledge. Tell your heart to like slow down or speed up?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 26:36

Yeah, yeah. Only probably like the most advanced Yogi's, you know, or, yeah, when

JD Stettin: 26:43

Wim Hoff probably has a way.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 26:46

Yeah, yeah. I was asking a friend of mine who he just got, you know, who just lost his father. So he was you had just returned from Israel. He was in synagogue yesterday. And I was asking him about like, what that was, he was with his his father at those last moments. And I was asking him about like, what, what that was like, and he says, Yeah, it's like, you can tell because like, the heart rate for slows, goes from like, kind of like 60 to 80 beats to like, per minute to 20 to 40. And then you know, that it's just it's that you've got like two minutes left. Yeah. And but that's what that's what it is. Right? Yeah. It's that heart. That's the engine, but it is also the breath, right? Because the last thing you do is exhale, right? The first thing you do is you when you enter this world as you inhale, and the last thing you do is you exhale. Yes, that final that final breath. So I think there definitely is an interplay, there definitely is an interplay between that breath and the heart. There's probably actually the one way that you can interestingly, probably the one way that you can control your heart rate is through your breath. Right. Right. And medication.

JD Stettin: 28:01

Yeah, drugs. I mean, hey, same same with your spiritual state. Right. Breathing or, or drugs? Yeah, they're both both ways of playing with your, your heart or your sense of heart or lungs. Yeah. And in that way.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 28:19

Yeah, the exception to the rule with like, with loving others and acts of love is I feel like, it's, it's loving ourselves, you know, that, to me is always, you know, harder. I mean, the whole idea of, like, we're saying earlier about the spiritual pursuit is like, it's like, Well, what I'm doing now is not good enough. You know, I haven't achieved what I'm supposed to achieve. And, you know, maybe it's, like we said, before we started recording, it's like, maybe it's one more deal if I just get, you know, closing or I just have another, you know, $10,000 or a million dollars, or whatever it is, you know, that like, if only that would happen, you know, or if only I reached enlightenment, you know, I, but you had said, I don't know, maybe it's a few months ago already, like you were just talking about, you know, after one of your latest journeys, about this recognition that, that you do love yourself. Yeah. And in some ways, like, our desire for, like, why do we want to grow spiritually? Why do we want to do our morning routine? Like, we want to do it? Because we think it'll make us happy. Right? Why do we want to make ourselves happy? Right, because we care about ourselves, we love ourselves and we want it you know, so it even our to recognize that even our discontent comes from a place of, of love. You know, if I mean I see that as a parent, I think that's very much the case. Like to the extent that I am not happy with something my child is doing and maybe that's their maybe I'm upset that they're like just on their phone too. much or that they're in struggling in school, or that they're struggling socially or whatever, it's like, well, why am I? Why do I feel like discontent because I want them to be happy. Right? And I and in my mind, which may be, which may be average, but it may be may be incorrect, but I think that if they do certain things that will make them happier, it'll set them up for like more happiness in life. Right, but maybe it's helpful for us to consider our own discontent, as as sourced in love as well.

JD Stettin: 30:34

Yeah, that that almost feels like the dog starting to realize that it's, you know, been chasing its own tail in some way as being like, oh, right, all this stuff that I think I need to do to somehow make myself more worthy of love only, in some ways comes from a place of like, really caring enough about myself to want that for myself. Right? So I must already have it. Right? Certain weird way, right? Like, if you didn't. And that's where, you know, thinking or thinking about, again, the map, he calls it the map of consciousness, right, Hawkins, this idea of all these different states, that's in some way, or a way of understanding that right at the bottom of this map of consciousness, you're so unable to access zero modes of yourself that this feeling of I can't help it so you can really can't do anything. And as you as you get more and more in touch with your self love. So it starts off as you really don't have access to any of that. And then as you get it, okay, then maybe you're, you have enough to be afraid, right? You love yourself enough that you were afraid of being let's say poor, or heartbroken. You love yourself even more to the point that you're angry that someone else seemingly made you poor or heartbroken. You know, you keep building in this, like love or self love capacity. And now you have courage to face these things. You keep building to the point where then you actually have acceptance, and then so on and so forth. And it's sort of this maybe just better and better seeing or coming into contact with this love. It's actually always there. But at the lower rungs or parts of this consciousness, you just really don't have or don't feel like you have access to.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 32:37

Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then, when you get there, when you realize that really what you're doing is all about loving yourself. Because you want yourself to be happy. Like, then the choice is like, well, what if I just decide to be happy? What if I stopped? What if I stopped chasing? Yeah, it so that kind of gets back to this, like, at some point, you realize that it's been there all all along? You know, it's it's, I don't know if this is like before your time a little bit, but remember, like the mat like them, I forget what they're called, like, the magic pictures where like, you'd have to put them up to your be some blurred vision image and you would like put it up to your eyes, and you'd have to unfocus your eyes in a certain way.

JD Stettin: 33:31

3D Image? Yeah, yeah, sure.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 33:35

Yeah. And, you know, my, it's the kind of thing where I remember like, I was like, trying to do it for like, you know, time and time again, like, you know, months, like trying to get get this, this is what I'm, I must have been, like, seventh grade or so. And then all of a sudden, it was like, I just, I was able to do it. And once you're able to do it, it's like, oh, how was I ever? How was I ever not able to see, it's like, so obvious, you know, you just have to, like unfocus your eyes and slightly refocused on. Right. So it's, I feel like, it's the same thing. I mean, that's what all of them. It's all the spiritual teachers seem to come back to this idea that when you get there, you realize that, you know, that you never left. You know, it's always been, it's always it's always been there. So, yeah, I mean, obviously easier said than then than done. You know, I was journaling about this the other day, I was like, Well, you know, what would, what would it be like, if I actually reached enlightenment? It's like, now I got there. Right? It's like, well, then, what would I be like? Like, what would I be be discontent about? Like, what would I have to be upset about? You know, like, like, I don't know what I would do with that in my life to like, not be trying to get to someplace that I'm that I'm not, you know, but it's like, I feel like it. We're Funny That Way. You know, I think we do Do we enjoy having something that we're this idea of reaching some imaginary future? You know, like, you know, you'd sent me, you know, a, you know, a quote the other day? I said, Well, I'll find it that. Yeah, that future is that period of time in which our affairs prosper. Our friends are truer, and our happiness is a short, you know, it's. But somehow we like what do you think that is about? Like, why do we? Why are we so stuck on that of like, just leaving where we are and getting to some imaginary place?

JD Stettin: 35:38

Well, one thing that I'm sort of been thinking in the last couple of days, in light of this, this book, where that code is from, as well is, is kind of stringing these two thoughts together. One of which is a quote from Wei, Wu Wei, or asked me awakened. And it says, Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9% of everything you think, and everything you do is for yourself? And there isn't one. And this kind of notion of mind, self, right? The Voice, the roommate, you know, depending on what what do you want to call him, or whose books you're reading, at the moment, that that inner voice, that roommate, that version of the self, actually does cannot exist in the present moment, that that that voice exists, and it's fueled only by the future. And so that part of ourselves, I think, it pulls us, or points us maybe into the future, because that's where that's how and where it derives. It's like life source or power source. The that part of the self doesn't exist in the moment. That voice the ceaseless chattering, I don't think he can like he's kind of like an imagining like a vampire in sunlight, you know, it just melts in the present. That chattering if you think like most of the time, you think about when you think you have a problem. Think about any problem you just had, or I'm thinking about a problem. I had on like this deal, this big deal that just closed and you know, of course that its problems, but in any moment, was there actually anything wrong with me? Now? An enrollment, I'm either like sitting at my desk, or walking and talking or whatever it was, and then am I suffering this deal and what's gonna happen and the clients and I, you know, I want their respect and their trust, and I've known them or let people down. But in the moment, there's nothing. And then just whatever breathing, eating, sleeping standing, so they added, there's like, sensations, there's not that this this self really seems to exist in the future, and I think gets, you're trying to recruit as much of the rest of us as as he can, to join him in the future. put stock in, in the future.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 38:26

Yeah. Yeah. That's, I think that's, that's very interesting. I mean, you're right. I mean, what are when we're when we're thinking about about something like, what is it like it's either about something about the future or something that we need to do? Or we think we should do? Or it's about the past about, oh, I wish I would have done that. Right. But it's never about if you would say to your your mind, alright, you're only allowed to think about the present. It wouldn't have any thoughts to think that's not, you know, what would what would it think about? Right now, that being said, you know, so what do you do about if we call it that the ego that's doing that thinking, you know, I feel like one of the hit Well, Hawkins has an interesting approach to how to treat that, which I like more than some other spiritual teachers like, like when you read or listen to like Eckhart Tolle, you get this notion you get this feeling that the ego is something to be battled against, you know, it's like the the enemy. The egoic, the egoic mind, you know, is like this, this predator, you know, that you have to fend off. And he says, Hawking says it's helpful to see the ego or small part of ourselves is a cute little teddy bear. The teddy bear is not bad. We don't hate or scold the little, the little bear. We love it and accept it for what it is a cute little animal who doesn't know any better After we transcend the smaller self, the smaller aspects of ourselves by accepting and loving them. We see the ego is limited, not bad. So it's like, you know, the same way you see other people around you, it's like, well, they're just doing the best they can, you know, they're not bad. You know, they're not, it's not that they were trying to wronged you, they were just doing the best that they could to treat that thinking self, as, you know, with the same care and consideration, just say it's like, oh, yeah, that thinking self that's worried about the future or worried about the past. Like, it's just a teddy bear. You know, we don't have to get upset in ourselves for for getting stuck in those thoughts on Sunday, when I was out of when I felt out of sorts. And then you of course, like, you have all the stories that are going on in my head, like I just also realized, Oh, I guess my morning routine is actually like more important to me than I then I thought, you know, and so next time, maybe I should just make sure to, you know, to keep keep my routine like that. And yeah, yes, it's not that it's inherently better. But all right, if that's what makes me feel better than I can, then I can do that. I can be gentle, gentle with that. So I really liked that idea of being gentle with our egos. And, you know, there's no, again, like, this gets back to the sham, like there's no escaping the thoughts, you're not going to all of a sudden get to the point where where you're not going to have thoughts anymore. If that's not why you wouldn't have a brain you wouldn't have a mind if there wasn't supposed to be doing thinking. But you can not beat yourself up when you're worried you can just notice it and just be gentle with that.

JD Stettin: 41:45

Yeah, and I think the old adage of attracting more flies with honey rather than vinegar. Seems right here too. And then if we chastise ourselves or ego, you know that that just leads to some form of repression, I think, or suppression or bypassing or any of these things. And it isn't, like you said, it's not this like demon to be beaten down. It's just, it's just a part of us that's as real and loving and beautiful as any other part of of the world. And I think in order to better let go that we have to better see it. I don't think you can let go of something you're not aware of. That doesn't. Yeah, and if they don't know and nothing is impossible, perhaps but like, that doesn't seem like a way to do it. Like even even Eckhart Tolle reading about, you know, his breakdown as a grad student. You know, that didn't come from unawareness that came from him, like tuning into just how depressed he was, and downtrodden. And through lying, you know, awake at night tossing and turning and feeling like his life was increasingly meaning meaningless, and he wasn't feeling good. That's what opened him up not not pushing it away, not some, like fighting some sense of self or grandiosity, they're really opening up to the the pain of what's of what's actually there and to your you know, your story about your morning routine being you know, disrupted in that day. Yeah, just just being open like that, like wow, this like really ruin my my system off just just noticing. Just noticing that. Yeah, like, whoa, this, my mood is off. I like have the same amount of time and I can't focus like, Wow, what a what a delicate, like harmony and balance is part of the, you know, love of the human system and psyche. And it doesn't take a lot to throw it off. So again, like a teddy bear a small child or pet like, they're, they're like, Ooh, yeah, I hear you. That's, that sounds hard. That sounds like your equilibrium was really was really tilted.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 44:28

Yeah, seeing that? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's right. So I guess as we as we finish up, I guess, you know, I feel like there's some interesting takeaways, you exercises that can be practiced out of this, you know, one is, well, this last thing about just kind of noticing, you know, and, and then noticing the noticing, right, if you have this thought you're worried and you're worried about it, it's like well, notice that You're getting upset that you're having a thought, well notice that also, you know, and you know, getting upset that you're getting upset that you're having a thought, Well, okay, keep on noticing that, too. And we're just getting them to a place of, of noticing. Also, this idea of paying attention to the love, like the loving actions that are the love and the loving actions that are all around you, you know, it's like your, your parent calls you, your mom, or your dad calls you to say, say hi, right, it's like, oh, like, that's, you know, that's pay attention to that, you know, or someone lets you go in front of them at Starbucks, or whatever it is, you know, you're looking at just a mother and a baby deer, you know, that that are together, it's like, it's paying attention to it. It just may I think, maybe it will allow us to see more of that, you know, within ourselves as as well.

JD Stettin: 46:05

Yeah, totally. And I guess to just sort of echo the sentiment and relate it to a movie that I don't think does a very good job painting his picture, but love actually is all around. It's, it's all there. It's all there all the time and just takes takes a little noticing.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 46:31

Yeah. Well, we'll try to pay more attention to it. You know, now I'm noticing myself like just judging myself about you know, being you know, love. Love is everywhere. Like, you know, but I'll, you know, I'll pay I'll just pay attention to that judgment as well.

JD Stettin: 46:54

That's better or worse. That's probably all you can actually do.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 47:00

Yeah. Well, JD, until next time. Stay loving.

JD Stettin: 47:07

Until next time, yeah. Yeah. Try and see it. It's all happening anyway.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 47:13

Yep, lovingly, perplexed.

JD Stettin: 47:16

Lovingly perplexed. Have a great week.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 47:19

Alright you too. Talk to you later, bye.