Episode 22: Top of the Mountain

JD and Mordecai have reached the top of the mountain, they are committing to peace, analyzing their emotions, simply breathing, and enjoying the chaos of the human experience.

Timestamps
1:15    -  What is Peace?

12:24 - Managing Your Internal Experience With External Anger

15:11 - Everyone Has Experienced Some Sort of Peace

22:47 - Call to Action - Just Breathe

32:11 - Commitment to Finding the Peace

36:13 - Defining Success by Massive Accomplishments

42:25 - When, With Whom and What Do I Do?

53:36 - Enjoy the Chaos

Transcript

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Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:00

Well, JD we we've made it. We've reached the pinnacle. You know, we've reached the top of the mountain, we're finally at peace.

JD Stettin: 0:10

You know, I was listening to this last night I was like, man, this sounds so good. But like, come on who's actually there? You know, like this is just too - all the other beautiful ones we've been added last year because love and before that he was acceptance. Those felt like really beautiful and open and amazing and I felt like oh, I've like gotten a taste of that, you know, a few times or that feels whatever this chapter I'm just like, you like come on. This is just like fantasy land like sure it would be amazing to be a complete peace and oneness and nothing and completely imperturbable and just communicating things subconsciously with the universe but I don't know is listening to it and equally Yeah, I don't know taken an amazed and at the same time, just like come on, man. Like this is not this is this is just silly. This is lovely fantasy. Yeah. Yeah. Harry Potter. You know, like, great.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:15

Yeah. So I wanted to, we'll see how this goes. But I want to start the conversation with with a, a, something I was reading in, you know, in the morning prayers, like in Smyrna s right at the end where it says says, assess Shalom demre love who yes, says shalom, Elena, right, that that he who makes peace in the in the heights, right? Kind of like in the in the heavens? He should make peace on us. And I started to think, well, who says that there's peace in the heavens? Like what is? Uh, you know, we, this week, they? I'm sure you saw the first pictures from the the Webb, telescope, And it shows 1000s of galaxies. Right. And you're, you think about, like, what's happening up there? And you have like, you have solar flares? That Are you have, I mean, they would destroy anything in the would get anywhere near it. You have asteroids that are crashing into planets, you know, you have stars that are that when they collapse, are sucking in everything around them and becoming black black holes, you know, so but yet we call that it's referred to as being like peace. Yes. So, like, what does? Like what does that mean? Like, you could say that, that? Well, maybe when this was when these words were written? You know, 1000s of years ago, if you look up at night, and you see the sky, it looks peaceful. But I don't know, there's a lot of chaos in there. And yet, we still think of it as peace. You know, so. Well, what's your reaction to that? First, and I think you could potentially see where I'm going with that, where we get to what we think about as peace. You know, we think of it is like this euphoria, where nothing ever bothers us, and everything is like hunky dory. But yet, that's not actually what this book is saying. It's like the saying that no, you will continue to feel anger, you'll continue to feel guilt, and fear and desire and pride and all of those those things, right? But you're just going to be able to let them go more, you know, more easily, or you just that's the practice of just letting them go. So perhaps like, why it feels so unattainable is that we have a misperception of what the definition is.

JD Stettin: 4:18

Yeah, I think and I don't know especially reading this this chapter, there's a line he talks about trying to find it but something about how you know physical diseases or whatever he's like, they may he'll they may not in this state, but you just don't care. Or it doesn't affect you in a certain way. And I thought, for me, when I when I listened that I was like, way, way away. This is part of the bullshit part of this chapter where I'm like, they may or may not like it, that's always true. There's always a chance that you will be healed and that you won't, but then I realized kind of the point he's making is that's When if you're living in that way, in, you know what he calls peace. It just, it doesn't matter, it really does become six of one half dozen of another if you're like super vigorous and healthy and hiking Everest or if you find yourself in a hospital bed, if you're at peace with if you're at peace, we could just say this in this state, it sounds like doesn't it doesn't really, it doesn't, it doesn't much matter. And it kind of reminds me a little bit that that quote, I think I shared from Michael singer yesterday, you have to understand that it is your attempt to get special experiences from life that makes you miss the actual experience of life. Life is not something you get, it's something you experience. And if you're busy trying to get something, you'll miss the slice, you're actually experienced. So in that sense, whatever the experience is, it's not about and I think Hopkins himself said this last week may be in our chapter in love is it's not about it's not about doing it's just about being. And so if beingness is the thing, then being this through great quote unquote, chaos, or seeming chaos, is just as much beingness as when there's, you know, less chaos or quieter, quieter times.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 6:26

Yeah. Yeah, I was, I was thinking about, you know, different genres of TVs, and TV, TV shows, and movies. Yeah, and different genres are meant to strum different strings of your heart. You know, there are comedies, right, that are meant to make you laugh. But there are also like, there are sad movies that make you cry, right. And people like watching them to feel to get to feel that sadness, there are horror movies, which I don't watch, but a lot of people, you know, love. And those are meant to make you feel fear. You know, there are there are shows and movies that are meant to inspire you, right, and make you feel like lifted up, you know, when you're my wife, and I like to watch something before we go to sleep at night. And typically, like, the best thing that we do for us is like something that's really light, you know, a little funny, and ideally, like 30 minute chunks, right. And also, I like it, where if I fall asleep in the middle, which I probably will, and I miss like an episode or two, like it won't make a difference, like you can just pick up, you know, where you left off, right? So just kind of like, light flaky, like not really tugging on any strings at all. I feel like that's, perhaps we have this idea that that's what we're after. That we think that if we just have like, the light flaky show of our you know, in our life that it will that will make us happy. Like, we don't want to you don't want to be too sad. We don't want to be angry. You know, we don't want to be scared. You know, or guilty. Like we're just like, No, just let me just feel let me just coast let me just feel that light, easy, breezy. Existence. However, the truth is that our Why do people watch those those movies? Because like, it actually is part of the human experience. And it feels good. I mean, it can't it's, well, it's just, it's, it's just part of, of what it means to live in this world. Right? And you're, and when you watch a sad movie, it's like, wow, you get to like, touch that part of your soul, right? Or the experience of being here of like, what it means to like to cry and to feel you know, and to and to mourn for the loss of whatever it is that's on, you know, that you're seeing. But that's removed from you, I think what you're saying with that idea of like, it's, it's not about avoiding those things, it's about the beingness and being with them, that is the piece is comes from I think not resisting those things, but letting yourself feel them because that is like the tapestry of your time here. Right? If all you if all you got to do was watch light, thick, you know, you watch, you know, friends for your entire like, life hear like that's there's not a lot of experience of richness to that experience with all due respect to that, you know, that show. So, yeah, but I think it's, it's, um, I think we have to get back to this, this idea of like, no, it's messy, you know, and it it hurts and, you know, we feel things that we don't want to feel sometimes, right but that's underneath all of that is still Till perhaps like this peacefulness? I don't know there. Well, I guess that's the next stage is really just to become aware of that, that that even in the midst of all of the comets and solar flares and supernova and black holes, that there's this infinite, deep silence and peacefulness that under underlies, you know, all of it.

JD Stettin: 10:29

Yeah. And it's all, it's all part of that somehow. Again, and he's always easier said than then deeply felt especially in moments of, of personal of personal turmoil but it kind of makes me think a little bit along the lines of Byron Katie of just like, accepting what is and noting that, for us the feelings of not being, excuse me at peace or whatever arise when when we're fighting our reality, or our experience or our emotions. And to your point, it is interesting, we actively seek out like, difficult emotion, sometimes movies being a great example music being another like, sometimes we want to feel sad, or think of some of the like, I don't know, no good in, you might sing. Friday night or fellowship, it's like, a lot of them are minor key, like dirt urges, in ways and most of the good ones are Yeah, right. And, and we seek out that experience, and in my experience of doing that with other people and feel like it's really wonderful and beautiful. It's really sad. And, and can I think sometimes some things are a little harder still to paint in with that brush. Like, okay, sad songs are sad movies. Okay, it's nice to be sad. But then if we think of like, real human suffering and conflict, like Russia and Ukraine right now, I think it's hard still, for me to look at that and be like, Oh, I mean, it's just, it's sad. And it's scary. And it's it's rough, but like, that's okay, that's part of the universe like that. That's still, I don't know, that sticks in my craw. A lot. A lot of the time.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 12:24

Yeah. Well, you don't have to be okay with what's happening. It's, it's just about what's happening inside of you. So you're getting so you're getting you're getting angry about those seeing what's happening in Russia and Ukraine, right? But now is that going to totally absorb your your focus for the whole day and like, you're not gonna be able to operate right? Like if you're, so now you're walking through the most. You're walking through the Grand Canyon, right? The most, you know, one of the most beautiful places in the world. And all you can think about is, like, god damn that Putin like that. He's great. So, can you just yeah, oh, I feel angry about that. Right? And there's still a peacefulness like inside inside of me, right. So think that this is all the you know, the the spiritual attainees, like, they weren't passive participants of, of life. You know, I think they were, they actively stood up to injustice. You know, Jesus was an incredible activists, like, you know, and and I don't know about the Buddha. I don't know how active he was. But he, but, you know, I mean, Abraham, like, was an activist like, went around trying to preach the gospel and stay in to defend the, the innocent, right mailable he how he went to bat for like, you know, for Saddam, like Saddam, like saying, like, Look, if there's even 50 people if there's 40 people if there's one if there's 10, right then. So, but it's about I think managing your internal experience, rather than saying that whatever people do is okay.

JD Stettin: 14:24

Yeah, that feels like a good a good read. And a good a good reminder. It's not that everything is necessarily good or happening. It's it's right it's about what's my experiencing, and can I can I be with it and through being with it, let it go be like, oh, yeah, I am angry, right. I think he talks it was in this chapter. He talks about that. All the way are the reasons we don't experience peace really repressed through repressed emotion is through all these feelings that we're having and just not admitting to ourselves that we're having and then that just builds up and builds up over time. time and it's just less possible to access peace when you're not being with what your feelings actually actually are. Yeah.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 15:11

Yeah. So there's also there's this idea that like, so he says, once the experience of peace has occurred, we are no longer a victim of the world. Right? So it sounds like this is something that I was kind of struggling with or wondering, is, is it about, like, once you touch it? You've been freed? Or is it like? Because he says that, yeah, everyone has experienced moments of peace. Right? Maybe it's a I don't know, observe, you're watching a sunrise or you know, I don't know, just something that's generates that feeling. Right. But then it passes on. Right. But then he talks about like, but then there's this idea that well, once you experience it, like, once you when they talk about right, in this spiritual journey, there's this idea of waking up, like, when did you wake up? Right? And there's a moment when people wake up, and then there's no going back to sleep. After you've after you've seen it. I think you and I are kind of after that, like, how do you just like, maybe you've already achieved it.

JD Stettin: 16:18

But my dream states? Yeah, maybe?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 16:25

Yeah. Lots of dig into there. So there's. So that's like, one thing that I'm not sure of? Is it because I guess there have been moments of peace that I felt. But then I'm not sure. Because if I actually didn't feel them, then my eyes would have been like, opened, you know, so I'm struggling with this idea of like, is it something that you just taste and now forever? You're it's like the red pill or whatever? It's called, like in the matrix? Once you take it, that's it, your eyes are open? Or does it come in waves? Yeah, in your expert opinion, you know, based on your experience?

JD Stettin: 17:04

Based on my experience, and it definitely doesn't last? Because I'll say, yeah, I don't know that that's one of those were hearing him talk about it and his experience, the, you know, the restaurant, this like big breakthrough after three and a half years. It's sounds like it almost sounds like and again, this is just a read, but that it's something that once you kind of really hit on, you're you sort of have arrived. And if you really do can feel and in your system feel this way about the world in your experience. It sounds like part of that is the inability to be bucked from from this ride any longer. And there's a kind of sense or like internal logic to that in a way that as I was listening to this, it's like, okay, I could see why. Once you're once you're in this place where it no longer concerns you, you know, Are you healthy? Are you unhealthy? What is your future gonna hold? Will you have food tomorrow? Will you not? Is there pieces there war, then? I think you would, there's a way in which once you're there, how could you leave? If not, if you're really imperturbable at that point, then you wouldn't lose that because there's nothing that can actually upset you. And it's almost an that's what this sort of internal logic of almost a definition it sounded like to me as being at peace is that you're there? And if you're there you're not leaving because you could like what what's going on what's gonna knock you out of peace? someone hurts you you're sick, you're worried a loved one dies the world you know that nuclear bombs are writing down your head, it just doesn't doesn't matter to you in in that way anymore. It sounds like again, so. So that reading that and kind of being in this chapter, that's what made me really feel like yeah, I've never experienced this maybe I've gotten bits of you know, acceptance or love at certain times and maybe existed on those states or planes. But what he's talking about this like real full true, I think almost by definition, I couldn't have because I certainly don't exist there. Now. So goals as as the kids say these days, goals.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 19:43

Yeah. Yeah. Well, when it made me think about meditation and like buying a meditation practice, yeah, because there's, I feel like you have So meditation is like off is usually practiced with the eyes closed. You know, and for me Like, I have a specific room that I go to in my house that's in the basement, and I have a meditation cushion. And I have a particular like, go through like A Course in Miracles, I'll like read, you know, the next one up and then use that to kind of feed my meditation. Sometimes I'll use mala beads, sometimes not I haven't really been success, you know, they haven't really taken, but you know that you have closing your eyes, to me creates this dichotomy because it's like, Alright, now I'm going into my like meditative practice, right, and then afterwards, and that's where I like hope to have this like spiritual experience. And then afterwards, like my timer, oh, by the way, I also have like, I also have put in my, my air pods. And I have, like, specific music goes into like, sort of from an end, Dell is, you know, the 20 minute timer. So and then afterwards, I get to open my eyes, and I get up, and I leave the room. And I go back to like, the rest of my life, you know? So I was wondering, like, is there? Is there meditation, is supposed to be part of this spiritual practice. But I wonder if there's a shortcoming in just, you know, in looking at it as like, well, I need to have my eyes closed in order to access that place. Right? Instead of like, Could I just be sitting at my laptop, going, looking at my emails, and then practice accessing it, like, in that moment, you know, or like, a sitting in my backyard or whatever, like just going shopping, or whatever, whatever you're on a conference call. Because what he is - this idea of reaching this set of pieces, not that you reach it, just on those 20 minutes, when you're closing your eyes, in quiet every day, it's like this, or this is with you. So I wonder if there's something to creating some kind of a meditation practice that's just in the throes of that chaos. Like, you know, I know, you had a big deal that that close the other week, and you know, there are lots for the lots of fire coming up. It's like in on a conference call where you're trying to figure out like, you can close the steel like 20, can you access it, then you should do some kind of practice to try to access it in those moments. What do you

JD Stettin: 22:44

Well, it reminds me of two things, one of which is think? the way in which Alan Watts talks about meditation as prescriptive rather than dietary, that it's, it's a thing in his mind, it's a thing you do to like, Okay, you're, like most of us are many of us suffering from this really chattering monkey mind. And it's a good way to like, if you do that all the time to, to learn to start doing something different, but then at some point, it in his talking, at least it shouldn't be it doesn't have to be a way of life, it's something you do to help cure or build up a certain skill set. And then to your point, then it's just something or a state of mind or way of being that you can hopefully, access or utilize in your in your day to day. And then in terms of what that means or how to do it. Again, Michael singers book I was reading on my flight home last week on Thursday, I guess, he talks about making this commitment to yourself of when you feel any kind of notice yourself feeling any kind of tension or stress and wherever that shows up in your body. Wherever that however, that shows up in your mind. The commitment is just to breathe into that you feel you feel to your points, okay, you're on a call the stuffs going haywire on your deal and I can start to feel whatever tightness in my stomach or my hands my fists clenching a little or like a tension my temples just that as a kind of call to action the action being just breathe into that tension and breathe out and then when you finish that is there still tension do it again. I mean at some point you might have to respond or say something and your call he doesn't say not to do that you don't need to just hang up and decay meditation break but the the the reaction our bodies have of tension or stress, the appropriate loving, enlightened whatever we want to call it, but it seems like a one way of responding to that is through, okay, stress, tension, anger, sadness hurt, whatever, breath. That's it. No, like, not like arguing you're thinking through or like, No, I shouldn't be upset, I shouldn't be grateful because I mean, I have this deal or whatever, just breathe. And I've made that commitment to myself on the plane. And I've been trying to practice that over over the last week. And it's actually really interesting how I catch myself in these moments, whatever stress or is, like, I went to the dentist yesterday, I've been having some tooth pain and my wisdom teeth, all four of which are impacted. They're like, You need to get those out. And you need to do that soon. So I was struggling last night to figure out if there was a way to do it today. But then I need to cancel my whole afternoon and also have a friend babysit me because I would be, you know, put out totally for all four just turns out, I couldn't get anyone on, like, you know, 12 hours notice to kind of cancel their day and do this. And I was sitting on the couch feeling like, Man, I have this pain. I have no one to help me through it. And because of that, I'm going to have to push this, you know, dental Oral Surgery back a couple of weeks, because I'm just feeling like really shitty, and then just catching up being like, oh, okay, breathe, and then breathe. And it felt a little better for a second. And the thoughts came back. And it was like, tempted to be like, Oh, this doesn't work, I need to try something else. And like, no, no, this is the, this is the work, breathe again. And just sat there doing that for I don't know how long, it could have been, like 12 minutes, it could have been 30 minutes, I'm not quite sure of like, getting upset, and then breathing. And then finding myself upset and then breathing. And eventually, it actually just subsided and I had a very lovely night to myself just eating food and reading this wonderful novel and, and went to sleep easily and woke up feeling very easy and, and light about everything. And I've been thinking about this as a method. And it's so it feels so oversimplified in a way that almost I don't know if you're really angry, and someone's like, just breathe that can sometimes feel like I don't know, belittling or offensive like, don't tell me to breathe. I'm having you know, I'm having a real problem here, man. And yet, in light of this chapter in this experience, I'm just sort of like, well, maybe it's not actually pedantic or belittling the point is the chattering mind. It this is this is the healing that the chattering mind means not like being forced to do other things, not rational argumentation about why you shouldn't be upset and why you should be grateful. It actually just means breathwork it just means our system to take that moment. And he were saying I'm walking, let's say in the Grand Canyon, I'm finding myself really angry about Putin. Just take that moment and give the emotion give my body give my experience, breath and presence. And so, to your point about Okay, so we can't always just set up and do like a perfect beautiful meditation practice with all the rooms and the beads and the cushions and the incense and the gong. And like, those are all wonderful ways of training and honing these skills. But in the moment, just just taking a conscious one conscious breath as conscious as you can, as you can make that. It. I think that is the that is like the trench toolkit, you know, when you're in it, when you're in the ship, when you're in whatever, just that one breath that's that we have everywhere. That's accessible to us at any time. And, and it's also in a way, I think the only the only thing we ever really can do.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 29:12

Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's great. I also think that you have to take that breath without being attached to the result that you want from the breath. Right, so it's like--

JD Stettin: 29:26

I learned last night, but

Mordecai Rosenberg: 29:27

--why am I not feeling better? Yeah, exactly. I just breathe dammit.

JD Stettin: 29:31

Michael Singer's a lying bastard.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 29:34

Yeah, exactly. It's like as if you're listening, we're about letting go. It's like I like I've been sitting here for 60 seconds. Like, I'm still feeling it. Like, get it out. Right. So it's but it's like, the commitment needs to be. This is kind of I mean, I I think about this in business also where it's thinking about like what are the leading indicators as opposed to trailing indicators, right? So you can say, All right, next next year, I want to double my, my revenue or whatever it might, you know, close it closings. So all right, you see, you'll know at the end of the year if you've got there, right, but how do you know if you're doing those things that are going to get you? There? Right. So yeah, so it's, do you remember JT when we were working together? You know, we had our, like, our Thursday night meetings, I think, I think they didn't start to like 8pm or something.

JD Stettin: 30:38

I was just telling someone about this. They nominally started at eight, which really meant like, 8:30 ish.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 30:44

Yeah. Yeah. Which is why it's, it's wild. Like when you think about, it's like, that's when we were like, starting our team meeting was like, 830 at night. So, but it was always about, alright, here's how many calls I'm gonna make next week, or, and here's how many calls. And then here's how many calls I made. Right? That was the only thing you could control. Right? Once the goal was alright. So out of those calls, you want to have a certain amount of conversations out of the conversations, you want to have a certain amount of, you know, proposals out of proposals, you get deals, signed up and added deals signed up, you get deals closed, but the only thing you can control is, is really like how many quality calls you you make. So. So that also could be a relief to say that, like, look, yeah, I'm not. I'm not looking to let go all the commitment that I can make, because I can take one breath into what I'm feeling. Right? And then if that feels okay, maybe I'll take two breaths. You know, so maybe after a month, I'll increase the ante, you know, it's like, just like push ups, like, you know, you start with five and then 10, and then 15. And then four, you know, you're up to, like, you know, 50. So, with just that commitment of like, just Alright, on committing to is just taking the breath. Right. That's the, as long as I do that, that was a success, right? Yeah, you're still angry. I know. But I took a breath. So that was like I can, I can check that off.

JD Stettin: 32:11

Yeah. And then what feels so cool about a to it, which I caught myself doing was, it's just, you keep resetting. So the commitment to taking a breath, when you feel upset, it's like, I feel upset, I took a breath, and check in Oh, I feel upset. I take a breath. And I check in again, I feel upset, I take a breath. And instead of, for me, conceptually was easier to do that than to say, I'm just going to take a million, you know, breaths. It's just like, the commitment. The project is just if you notice stress, breathe. So you could end up doing that for like, hours in a row. But if you think of it in this way of it's just like, oh, okay, well, that's I agreed stimulus response, stimulus, feel whatever, breathe, still feel it. Okay, do it again, instead of feeling even, like do it again, or like a second rep or a third rep. It's almost like each time is the first time because each time is a separate moment. I'm upset. And this moment I breathe. Yeah, this is a different moment, I am upset, I will breathe. And somehow it's a lot of in this way, it does kind of feel like Zen and breathing the Dao De Jing, but this kind of like almost the you know, Jedi mind trick type stuff of like, you just think about it in this way. Where you just recognize that the moment is is always the moment. And like Alan Watts talks about, like, when you're washing dishes, each dish, you're just washing a dish. If you think oh my god, I have 25 dishes to wash. That feels maybe not fun. But if you pick up the dish, you're like, I'm just washing a dish, but I'm just washing a dish in. And that also feels like this cool way of almost getting in reps of this mentality. And like tricking yourself in a fun way into doing it. It's your point, instead of being like, Okay, I'm going to do 100 pushups today, you just do a push up and you're like, Could I do another one? I guess I could, you know, you do a push up. Can I do another? You know, and if you did that, and you wait, okay, maybe you do you do? 10 of them. You're like, actually, I'm tired. You wait a minute, you have a drink of water? Could I do a push up? You do a push up and like, next thing you know, I mean, okay, maybe it's taken a half hour, you can do 100 Push ups that way. Right? And, and so to with this, this breath, work breath thing. It's just noticing like, yeah, you still angry great. Take a breath because that's what you said you do. still great. And it just kind of it just kind of goes and keep breathing. You know, mostly I think long enough. It does. Does change. So far in my six days of trying to do this, or whatever. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 34:59

Yeah. There's just clipping on on the breath. There's, ya know, like I'd always heard about, like four or five, six breaths, like kind of four seconds, in whole, for five out for six, you know, or there's like box breathing, which is, you know, it's like 44444, or whatever. But someone recently told me about it that what works best for them is 711. Breathing. So seven, on the way in, and then 11 on the way out, right, which is like, that's like a really slow, deep inhale. And a really full slow exhale. Like that was like the longest that I've ever heard. And I think that's what type of breath you take. Like, I feel like if it's like that slow, deep breath, I've liked that. So I want to share that with you.

JD Stettin: 35:47

Nice, yeah, I've been. And that might be nice to have something more specific to lean on. In terms of technique. So far, I've just been just just trying to be like, okay, just just slow, deep breath and let it out as controlled and slow as I can and just see what that does. But having yeah, having a specific technique might also just be a nice, this nice mental framework.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 36:13

Yeah. Yeah. So the, the thing that I like, also about the breath is that I feel my experience is that when you're in those moments of emotional discomfort, it ends up being a fast downward spiral, right? Because I'm feeling angry, and now or upset or whatever, you know, then I say, Alright, I'm gonna practice letting go. So I'm going to just like, try to be there with this, right? And so I'm there with it. And I'm waiting, like, alright, supposed to let go. I'm supposed to have, you know, this burst of energy, right? And I'm not doing it. So now I'm upset that, I guess I'm not doing it right. And I guess I probably haven't made any progress on this whole thing. And it's like, this whole, like, an like, why am I even doing this? Like, it's not, it's not working? What's wrong with me now never going to mountain never going to achieve, you know, any spiritual growth. Right? So and it's like, so this crazy, like, you know, spiral. Right? So because you're defining success by these massive accomplishments, it reminds me of my my executive coach, Dan Sullivan. So his to do list for the day, he said, he only only puts three things on his to do list. Right? So the night before, and it usually does, it raises, alright, what are the three things three most important things that I can do tomorrow, right. And as long as he accomplishes those three things, successful day, right now, once he does those three things, he may decide to do more things also. But that's just bonus. Now you're in like bonus territory. Right. But, you know, most of our to do lists are, you know, it could be like pages and pages long, right? In terms of what we have to do. And then we don't have like, you know, maybe you have some of the urgent things that you'll try to do that day. But if you who ever feel satisfied with like, their to do with where their to do list is, at the end of the day, first of all, it's, it's as likely as not is longer than it was when it started when your day started, right? Because five new things came up that you now have added to it. Right? So this idea of like, of just just three things, right? And as long as you do those three things, successful day, right, and that's, you know, and then at the end of the day, he will record kind of like three wins from the day. But that's, that's it allows us to kind of celebrate our success and not go any further if we if if our mark of success is did I take one breath? Right, then at the end of the day? Say, Well, what did I do? Oh, yeah, I had that come up. And I took one breath. You still feeling upset? Yeah, but that's not who cares? That's not what this is about. It's just about that, that one breath, you know, but now you can kind of celebrate your success a lot more more easily.

JD Stettin: 39:07

Yeah. And what's so neat about that is if you ask yourself the question, and the answer is you didn't you can do it right then, you know, yeah, like there's no there's no time. And that's why it's it feels like I don't so like strange and also exciting that something so quote unquote, easy and accessible, is actually in some ways, like that's the thing that's the work of a lifetime not building you know, an empire and then make being a perfect parent and you know, contributing to society. But can you in a moment, when you're, you know, chattering mind is knowing what you can breathe. Yeah, I can breathe beautiful. Yeah. And that's always I mean, just about always available and like how cool how cool Well, is that that that's like that might that might be it. Nobody's you know, to your point is to do listen, we want so much out of life and feel like we have to do so much to feel good. And even, you know, you're coaching with three things. And if I don't do them, then the day failed isn't a bad day and my somehow unworthy. It's like, that's all. I mean, it's great to have a beautiful life and have structure, but that's doing in terms of being Can you try? And it can be right now, can you take a breath? And just feel that go in and feel it go out? And like that's, that's in some way all. All it ever all it ever is and that Yeah. It's beautiful, and empowering and lovely. And it feels like that's been gifted to all of us. Yeah. In almost any circumstance. Yeah.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 41:00

Right. And then you can start doing it, not just when you are. You're upset, right? You can do it. First thing in the morning is you can take a breath, right? Just to kind of a mindful breath. Right? If you think about it, like, if you get to the end of your days, where you're on your deathbed, you're thinking about like, what did I like? What, what did I do in this lifetime like that? Um, if you could say, like, I took one mindful breath every day. You know, where I was, like, just kind of present with whatever I was feeling. It's like, alright, not bad.

JD Stettin: 41:32

Or even if you didn't, you're like, Oh, shit. Yeah, maybe. Let's do it. Now. Let me do it now. Do it. Now I can do it. Right, I could just breathe and be alive and feel. You know, not just and the goals and to do lists and checklists. It's like living in this ever present and non existent future. Yeah, it's so easy to judge. Yeah, if I do this, and then I want to do that. And then as soon as to your point, as soon as you do that thing. It's like the biblical plague of frogs, you know, you hit one to spring up from it. For every accomplishment, or achievement or goal met in life, it feels like another two things fork out, and it's even business success, you make money. Now you have to invest it right? Oh, shit, what do I do with that,

Mordecai Rosenberg: 42:22

Or right, you have to give it away.

JD Stettin: 42:25

Right, invest in, give it away. Now all of a sudden, you need an accountant to do your taxes, because that's too complex. And all these things. They're not bad. They're there can be great parts of life. But they, they they multiply in this way. And I was at my mom's house last week, she showed me this children's book, that's an adaptation of Tolstoy story, the name of which I don't remember, but I'll try and send later maybe we can put in the links the notes to the show. But that adaptation is really sweet. And it's really to animals. But the story basically goes that this king has these questions. He says I figured out the three questions in life. And then you get three answers. The questions are when, with whom? And what do I do? And you know, longer story very short, you know, runs into an old wise man. And so helping someone in need, who had previously thought he was going to hurt him. And the answer the questions is, when is always now, who is always who you're with. And that could be yourself, it could be anyone else? And what is just what is what is the right action? In this moment, for the thing at hand, and I'm thinking about that it's sort of so in any given moment, like, like, you were sort of challenging me like, Okay, you're angry at at Putin, let's say, Okay, where am I right now, and find myself in a room in my house. So I'm with me, right? I'm in my house. This is the time, what is the action, the action might be just taking a few conscious breaths. And then when I have recovered from that, I mean, action could be as making dinner, or it could be going online and donating to HIAS, again, to help you know, Ukrainian refugees, or you're sharing a post or god knows what, but just in any moment, thinking about those three things and realizing that the answer is always the problem is always the answer. Or vice versa. Like if there's something that's bothering you breathe into it, and then whenever you're done with the breathing part of your experience, then there's an action item, the action item might be to do nothing or to go on with your day. But just kind of thinking in those terms of like the when, with whom and what it's always like now, whoever you're with, and then what's the what's The action of heart of loving kindness. Yeah, for the people involved in the time in the place. And, like, what a beautiful, simple, you know, like, internal framework to apply to this stuff.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 45:17

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. So, with nine or 10 minutes left, I'm going to risk asking maybe a loaded question which is, if this is the goal, or if the goal is to reach the state of peace, right? Why didn't God create us in that state? You know, why, like, what's with all the garbage that we have to like, get through, you know, to like stumble upon the side, you know, to this idea and to fight it's like, why not just create like, Why hasn't evolution like directed us to to that or like why didn't like dog create us like just in a state of peace? Like why if that's the goal, why the other stuff? Yeah, so I don't know that mean that's a big question and none of us can really know the the answer but does anything come to mind?

JD Stettin: 46:30

Yeah, I feel like that question used to I don't know maybe trouble me more or give me more food for thought when I when I used to back in the day conceive of God as basically like a superhuman person, you know, the wise loving Father type thing of Judeo Christian lore, but in whatever current incarnation of thinking of the word, you know, God and quotes as like, just life force, all the things that are in existence? It it's, it's an interesting question, because it just sort of like, Oh, why didn't it happen that way? And then it also feels a little bit to me, I can hear like Byron Katie's voice being like, like, yeah, the world didn't like conform to what you wanted it to, like, congratulations, like, welcome to Life, we have a lot of ideas about what we should be, what our goals are, where we are. And it's like, we made all that shit up. We concocted this all the lower scales, the emotions, the conceptions, everything else is just kind of cruising along, doing what it does, you know, cats are killing sparrows comments are colliding. And they're not sitting around postulating, like, why aren't we better? Or why do we have the suffering or it's deeply unfair that mankind has arisen in the last 200,000 years and is probably going to ruin the planet for all of us. Like, I don't think any of them are are saying that. And so if this peculiar humaneness and we are these strange, reflective apes, who, somehow through evolution built consciousness and, and awareness and lack of awareness, and we've kind of excuse me, in a way, like, we've created our own problems as a species and I don't mean that in like a false kind of cumin sat down, and we're like, you know, let's get conscious and then have existential dread. I think it's, if you look at the the billions of life forms on this planet, we're the only ones who have hit on this particular speed, bump of consciousness and of selfhood, as far as we know. And like, that's, it's kind of wild. And it almost feels like oh, yeah, we develop, we somehow our evolutionary path led us to the most powerful tool in one of the most powerful tools in the known world, which is the human mind. I mean, look at how much humanity has done. It's, it's, it's crazy powerful. Just the space telescopes. You were talking I mean, got anything language culture, science, technology, art. It's a superpower. Yeah, and, as with any other superpower, like nuclear energy is a superpower and it's also super effing dangerous. And I think we are just this super powerful fringe node in evolution, that that somehow stumbled into all of this stuff. And, and again, it's a superpower and it and it takes a lot of a lot of energy to maintain. And it can be really dangerous and really toxic. And often is when not, when not used. Well, so no, that didn't really answer that question of like, why, but I just, I don't know that there's a why other than just like, whoa, like, what a crazy what a trippy karma we got how different from being like an ant or a whale, or poison ivy plant, or, you know, whatever. Like, that's, that's pretty crazy.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 50:52

Yeah. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. You know, a couple of things like, come to mind, as you're, as you're talking. So, you know, one is, like, me, Elon Musk is talking about like this neural technology, right, you can kind of like, you know, tap into your program, your I don't know, just embed knowledge, maybe in your brain, or I don't know exactly how it will work. So let's say, as a parent, you know, that the goal is for your kid to get an education, and like to go through elementary school and high school and college, you know, maybe beyond. So like, let's say, at the age of four, you could just download all of that knowledge into your child's brain. So like, so they have it, they have all the knowledge that you wanted them to gain, and including social skills and all that. That's, that's now in your in their brain. So would a parent say, All right, perfect. Let's let's do that. Probably not, probably they would say, No, there's something to going through the experience of getting there. That is like, it's not. It's not about it's like the journey is the destination, so to speak. You know, so, maybe, like, that's what it is, It's not that you can't like you. It's first of all, maybe that is where we're all going. And I think that is the vision of of a lot of spiritual teachers is that eventually, yes. Like all of humanity will reach the state of of awakening, you know, I think that's what when we talk about, like the Messiah, mushiya for like, redemption, you know, I think that's actually like, what we're, what it taught me about is, like, kind of everyone just wait people, the state of awakening rather than, you know, kind of some destination and time, you know, per se. So there's, but it is about life is about kind of the process of getting there. You know, I also have a, had the thought that, you know, in the Bible, when when, when Eve first like, eats from the tree of knowledge, you know, and it says like, in her eyes were opened, actually, yeah. And then and then she gets to Adam and Adam eats and like, his eyes are open. That my, I've thought that that really what happened was like, they went from that state of like, peace. To the to the mess.

JD Stettin: 53:27

You know, specifically directly to, like, shame and guilt, right? Shame and guilt, right? They dropped right to the bottom of the aisle when you get over.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 53:36

Oh my gosh, I'm embarrassed, right? It's like, you're right. So it's like, well, why why would you? Why would you do that? It's like, well, because that's what's life, if you just came into life, and you were already at that state of peace, like where, what is? Where's the, as Alan Watts would say, like, where's the fun? You know, where are the where's the drama? Drama in that? It'd be very boring. There's no plot, there's no you know, there's no so so. It's it is it maybe that's like part of this also, it's like that it's you take that breath, and then that's, that's it. That's the work just take that breath, enjoy the chaos. You know, because like, the chaos is the journey that that is has been set out. Right? And you know, maybe it'll get to that ultimate state of of nirvana. Maybe in this lifetime maybe in another lifetime. Like who knows but it's like but just this actually somehow like this is the gift right? That the journey is like big is the the gift the drama, is that the gift

JD Stettin: 54:55

Yeah, and And the crazy thing about it all that like To your point like this, this is the gift and also, any moment, you could end up in peace. I think it's all so many these teachers say like, there's no like, magic. You don't have to go to India. You don't have to meditate forever. You can just, it just, it might just happen.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 55:20

It's great. It's great. It's not it's not anything that you it's actually. Everyone says it's nothing that you do. You're there's no pulling yourself up by the bootstraps when it comes to this. You know? And so you can't take credit for it either.

JD Stettin: 55:37

Yeah, yeah.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 55:41

Well, I'm feeling good. I think I've seen I've seen the top of the mountain. Through binoculars or a telescope. Yeah. But it's all it's all downhill from here.

JD Stettin: 55:56

That's right. Just breathe as you're rolling downhill. That's all.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 55:59

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So the oxygen is thin, you know. So deep breathe out there. That's yeah, that's true. All right, JD. Well, until next time, we'll Well, I love this, this idea of the one breath so thank you for thank you for that. The gift of that idea.

JD Stettin: 56:20

Yeah. And thank you for the gift of Michael Singer. So you know, often like taking credit for stuff that is funny how it just sort of ends up being this like little loop.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 56:30

Yeah. Like, that's brilliant. Where did you hear that?

JD Stettin: 56:33

You recommend it, but you told me I needed to--

Mordecai Rosenberg: 56:35

Oh did I recommend that? Oh, yeah, right. Right. Of course. Yeah, obviously. Context. Yeah.

JD Stettin: 56:45

All right. All righty. A pleasure as always, stay perplexed.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 56:48

Until next time, until next time, take care.

JD Stettin: 56:51

Bye bye.