Episode 20: From the Ashram to Jerusalem - An Interview with Sara Yoheved Rigler: The Purpose of Life, the Importance of Connection, How to Feel Loved by God

Mordecai and JD speak with the fascinating Sara Yoheved Rigler. We learn about her spiritual journey from conservative Judaism to living in an ashram and being introduced to the life of the soul. She explains how the Hindu goddess of death brough her back to the Jewish God, and how she is currently fulfilling her purpose in life.

You can find Sara at her website: sararigler.com

Timestamps
0:01-3:52                 Sara Yoheved Rigler Introduction
5:13-19:52              From Brandeis to the Ashram
19:55-28:00           Spirituality
28:01-30:25           Humanistic Psychology: God as The Most Noble Part of a Human Being
30:51- 39:34          Religion of Law or a Religion of Love?
39:35- 47:39         Thank God for 5 Things You've Never Thanked Him For
47:32-54:13          Religion of Detachment vs Religion of Connection
54:14- 1:02.15      Goal of Judaism
1:04.39-1:11.19   Sara's God-Given Mission

Transcript

Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:00

Well, JD This is a special episode for us. It's our first interview with it a guest on the podcast. So that was exciting.

JD Stettin: 0:07

Uh, yeah, it feels like we've moved from Book Club to a podcast, you know?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:15

Yeah, exactly. So we'll see how that how that goes. We'd love to continue. So our guest today is Sara Yoheved Rigler. So just a little background her Sara was raised in Camden, New Jersey, which is right outside of Philadelphia, I was raised in a conservative Jewish household, sort of being like, not orthodox or reform, but felt that similar to you had a spiritual bend. And growing up in 1968, she went, took a trip to India and met her first holy person who taught her that really we were a soul, and not just the mind or body, it seems like that kind of really opened up the this universe of spirituality to her. She graduated from Brandeis University, magna cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, after college, like I'm sure her friends were going off and getting jobs. She lived in an ashram for 15 years, which is pretty, pretty wild. After 15 years, she really threw some interesting stories that you'll hear, you know, she rediscovered her roots in Judaism and ended up moving to to the Old City of Jerusalem, where she's been living since the late 80s. But really amazing conversation. I mean, JD, anything that jumps out to you, as far as as some of the things that were interesting things that don't go to you from the discussion.

JD Stettin: 1:35

Yeah, I think and clue our listeners in as well. Sara felt like such an interesting guest for us. Given that, you know, Mordy and I both grew up in different versions of Orthodox Judaism, and I've chosen different paths as we've moved forward in our lives. And both of us have intersected in kind of an Eastern spiritual, Buddhist way and hearing from someone who spent 15 years living a monastic life, and then reverted to a version of something that more unite grew up with, just what a cool, what a cool path for us to look at, and be part of and listen to, I think some of the things that, you know, struck me from this conversation, the idea of there are no irrational behaviors, the idea of Sara's way in Judaism of bliss and happiness as sort of a path and a goal. For her also, I think, the importance of connection, and something she felt very much lacking in her time at the ashram in her time and Eastern spirituality, this lacking of connection, this emphasis on detachment.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 2:46

Yeah, well, hopefully you will enjoy that this episode. If you like it, and you like you'd like us to do more of these interviews, please let us let us know. Leave it a comment.

JD Stettin: 2:57

And you know, if you are super spiritual person and have spent time in that path and want us to talk to you about it, we are also open to new and exciting spiritual guests. So let us know.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 3:09

That's right. I'm trying to think of like our wish list of spiritual guests. We can quickly come up with that and just put that out there. Yeah.

JD Stettin: 3:16

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Okay, cool.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 3:18

So yeah, Jon Kabat Zinn. That's right. Yeah. Was never ready.

JD Stettin: 3:26

Hey, yeah. I don't know if he's done a podcast yet. But Well, tough man.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 3:30

Yeah. All right. Well, I hope you enjoy the conversation.

JD Stettin: 3:35

Be perplexed.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 3:37

Well, I am delighted to welcome a special guest today. Sorry, you're feted, regular, hailing all the way from the Old City of Jerusalem. So welcome. Welcome, Sara.

Sara Rigler: 3:52

I'm very happy to be on with you mortify and JD, and to have this opportunity to speak to your audience.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 3:59

Fantastic. Now, I'm really, really excited to have you on my mother had forwarded me an article that you wrote a while ago about Ram Dass, and your experience with him. Right. And you don't have a lot of Orthodox Jews who talk about experiences with with Ram Dass. But JD and in my experience, you know, we're both raised your Jewish Orthodox. I feel like what we've found is that, that spiritual kernel, it's been tougher for us to tease out of traditional Orthodox Jewish environment, you know, and where we've kind of gone is into reading about Eastern philosophy about meditation and practices and all that stuff I view as like, I have to now bring that back into shul, so to speak, you know, in terms of meditation, but it's not obvious the other way is practice. So I was really excited to hear about someone who like went the other direction, right. And so you You just a little kind of just the high level, bio as I understand it, you can you can correct everything but I understand that you were born in 1948. in Cherry Hill, New Jersey.

Sara Rigler: 5:13

I was born in Camden--the Jewish community has since become Cherry Hill. But I was born in Camden, which is like really was a suburb of Philadelphia as opposed to when we say New Jersey, people usually think of suburb of New York, we were definitely a spin off of the great conservative Jewish community of Philadelphia.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 5:36

Yeah. Great. So So I want to let's start by kind of understanding your path a little bit from from there. So So you mentioned in hurt you mentioned in a video that that you felt that growing up, you're part of a conservative Jewish community, you felt like you weren't being spiritually fed there. For there was an awareness of that.

Sara Rigler: 6:00

At the time, I don't know that I had any idea of spirituality except from within me. But I mean, I was very involved in our conservative synagogue I was, you know, it was it was what you'd call today, conservative docs. My father made kiddish. We can do kosher home. I went to two afternoons a week Hebrew school until I was 18 years old and went away to college at Brandeis. I was president of my youth group, the united us why called the United synagogue youth, I was on the National Board of us why so I was very, very involved, and it was all about was about Israel and anti semitism and Russian Jewry. In those days, Russian Jewry was the big cause. And, and it really had no spiritual component whatsoever. So when I was when I went away to Brandeis, at that point, it was the late 60s. And Brandeis was a place which was a secular Jewish University 20 80% Jewish at that point. And the and I was in the psychology department, and the Psychology Department was, was very much under the influence of Abraham Maslow who pioneered humanistic psychology, and transpersonal psychology and all those in the psychology teachers. The Psychology professors were learning the Bhagavad Gita, and then about India. And it was a whole deposition the beginning of, you know, this great interest in Indian spirituality. And I was very, really intrigued by it and decided for my junior year abroad to go to I got full college credit, but I went to India for my junior year.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 7:45

So can you describe what that poll was? Because not everyone. There's lots of people who go away for their junior year, but they'll go to London or Italy or Paris? Or, you know, like there's, what was that poll it? Did you feel like there was some kind of like a spiritual? Yeah, Paul, that made you go to India?

Sara Rigler: 8:08

I think so. I mean, in the end, I do believe that God runs the world. And the people who lead up in London, the people who end up in Tokyo for the junior year, I wanted to first go to Tokyo, but the Cutlass college school year didn't sync with your Brandeis. So I didn't. So I saw this brochure, I think it was all divinely LED. I was a very spirit. The truth is, I'm a very, very spiritual kid. You know, my favorite day of the year was Yom Kippur for my mother, all day long for but there was, there was no, my mother was also very like spiritual. She was Shabbos candles, but it Judaism. After I spent 15 years, I'm gonna put it this way after I spent 15 years in the ashram. And I know I'm not skipping the hoster I'm happy to share with you my story. But when I heard Rabbi David din, say that Judaism was a spiritual path. I was like, What 1000s of Jews I went to Brandeis when he was 80% Jewish, I was in this very strong Jewish community in southern New Jersey. I was like, I knew 1000s of Jews, I did not know a single Jew who regarded Judaism as a spiritual path. So that was what was that was like, there was just no sense of spirit of, of spirituality. So in my, in my soul, I was a very spiritual person, but I didn't. It had to be the the first that had to be uncovered. By going to India I looked for a guru. I was in the enrolled in the university there in the Banaras Hindu University and the psychology in the Philosophy Department. But I wanted to find a guru. And that was its own whole story was a hard finding a guru because I was told that anybody who's genuine will not talk to you, you're a woman. You don't speak English, you don't speak any of the languages that you know they speak. And in the end, I think God guided me to Maha Maha pod yet Gopi. Not Kobe Raj, who was the retired principal of the Sanskrit College in Banaras. And he was the first person in my life, he totally changed my life, by telling me that I wasn't that there are different levels of rehab, there are three levels of reality. This is a physical, I got that there's the mental health is totally into that. I mean, you know, middle class Jews who are just into education, more education, more degrees. I mean, that was like, Yeah, I got the mental. And the higher level, the highest level of the three was the spiritual level that I, he taught me that I was not a mind inside a body, I was a soul who had a mind inside a body. And I had never heard anybody nobody had ever mentioned to me in the Jewish context, the idea of soul and I'm sure there are many people listening today, who also in the Jewish context, even today, it's like amazing to me. Jews in the Reform, Conservative backgrounds, like I talked to them as like, well, we is this big of a solid Jewish idea. I never heard of it. I never heard of it. They tell me people who are like conservative, staunch conservative Jews, they never heard of the soul. I had to go to India to be introduced to the idea of the soul.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 11:40

Yeah, you mentioned conservative and reform. I mean, I've been to I went to the mirror for a year, you know, in Jerusalem, I've been to you know, other other was must have been to like you she voted in Orthodoxy she voted in the US. I don't know that they get that any kind of circle really gets that soul part. Maybe they talked about it a little more. But in terms of, I don't know, what what was your experience with that? Like, what is it that you have that you are as a soul, which is something that you learned in in India? Now, if I didn't says, well, all of Judaism is a spiritual path. And you heard that, but what did you see? What did you see in in that moment, were like through your pursuit of Judaism that you weren't getting from, like 15 years of meditation at an ashram.

Sara Rigler: 12:35

So we have to skip this missing pieces that we got to put here in the picture. When I finished my year in India, I went back, and I finished my degree at Brandeis. And then the very day after I graduated, I joined an ashram on the, on the coast of Massachusetts. It was America's oldest ashram. It had been founded in 1909, by Swami param, Ananda. And the guru was a genuine Indian woman who had come in 1926. And so there was a lot of frothy stuff going on, as there always is in the New Age world. And they, you know, it was very important to me to have a genuine Indian guru that some Jewish guy from Brooklyn has called me now. So I had a genuine Indian guru, and I was there for 15 years as a monastic member. I was secretary of the ashram, I was personal secretary to the guru. And then because we were Universalist, we invited people from all different religions to come and you know, we speakers from Christian Christianity, Buddhism, other Hindu teachers. So the Jewish teacher was always a rainbow tallest Jewish renewal rabbi. And, but at this point, 14 and a half years after I came to the ashram in November of 1984. Through le we sell, we had it we had a Hindu woman at the ashram named Schumer Chakravarty. And she was teaching assistant to Elie Wiesel at Boston University. And he, and through Elie Wiesel, she came to know Rabbi Joseph Pollack, who was the Hillo rabbi at Boston University, and she invited him to come and speak at the ashram and he said he would. So we sent out postcards. This was 1984. You know, the only way to let anybody know anything. She sent out postcards. We send up postcards that Rabbi Joseph Pollack will be speaking about Judaism. And the night before he was supposed to speak we at the temple, the Universal Spirit, 11 o'clock Sunday morning services. So night before I was the secretary, I called him to make sure he had directions we were in, in the woods 21 acres of woods, and he started asking me questions and he asked me whether whether there were any crosses in the room where he'd be speaking. And I said, of course it's a template of the Universal Spirit. We have symbols of all the great religions you know, around the on on these stained glass insignias on The Temple, the Universal Spirit. And he said, I'm not coming. What do you mean you're not coming? He said, I won't speak in a place where there's a cross. You have a community room. I said, we have a community room. But we don't have any room in the ashram that doesn't have symbols of all the great religions. And he kept saying he wasn't coming. And he himself was a child Holocaust survivor, and an undercover Habad Rabbi, I didn't find that out till years later. Anyway, he we started arguing, I said, there's no way to notify people, you can cancel like this at the last minute, this isn't right. This lacks integrity. We kept arguing and arguing until after about five minutes. He said, What's your name? And I said to him, give him a Hindu name, Sister Shurunduni. And he said, What's your real name? And I said, Sara Ann Levinski, and he said, I'm coming. And he came, and he spoke about love of God, even unto madness quoting Maimonides. Well, I had gone to Hebrew school till I was 18 years old, I knew who Maimonides was, we even learned some Maimonides. So, but I was utterly, utterly confounded. What do you mean love of God? What does love of God have to do with Judaism? I never heard those words spoken in our synagogue. I mean, the rabbi rarely talked about God, love of God was never talked about. So the idea that there was a place for love of God, the ashram was all about love of God. Our ashram was very devotionals, all about love of God, so that there was a place for love of God in Judaism, like, What are you talking about? And that was what and he invited me for a Shabbos. And I eventually went, and then he took me to a heat at the end of Shabbat, he was there was a spiritual series that Rabbi Nemea Polen was giving it his synagogue in Everett, Massachusetts. And, and I went with him almost a Shabbat and it was a, you know, a love of Makkah. And he placed a little Karbach songs, and there was a lot of room ah, and it was very nice, but and I picked up a brochure and I sold it. The next thing on this spiritual series was run by David den, talking about Judaism as a yoga. So I had already by this time heard that love of God had something to do with Judaism. I had already gone to a Shabbat with Rabbi pollack. And then I went to this this lecture on Judaism as a yoga where Rabbi W. Denson said those words that changed my life that said, you know the word he said, Halacha, 90 What halacha meant I knew halacha meant Jewish law. halacha comes from the root word meaning to walk, that Judaism is a path. It takes you somewhere, that Judaism is the spiritual, hahaha, it's Jesus's spiritual path that takes you somewhere. And that was like that utterly floored me. I was like, Are you kidding? How did I not know this? I went to Hebrew school when I was 18 years old. How did I not know that Judaism is a spiritual path that takes you somewhere. So that's some pieces of my story that I had written a book. It was a biography of my gurus, Guru Swami param Ananda, and she was very happy with it. And she gave me two months in$2,000 to go anywhere I wanted. And I first went down to Boro Boro Park to get Rabbi din taught in Greenwich Village. And I went to his classes very, very, very brilliant man. And very, I had to be impressed intellectually, I wasn't going to get, you know, I wasn't going to hop on a train. That didn't impress me intellectually. He was very brilliant. And I read a rabbi Mayer fund and Robin Mayer Fund said if you want to learn Judaism, you have to go to Jerusalem. I came to Jerusalem I still had some my money and time left. And the first night I was in Jerusalem, I met the two people who really had the most effect on my life, the Rebbi assumption of who's my Rabiei Ascetic Rebbi of assumption of and Robertson support Heller, like most brilliant person in the world, and and after two months, I just was like feeling like, you know, I don't want to leave How can I leave I when I went down to I was living in already in the Old City. I was attracted to the Old City from the beginning. And I went to the code I used to go to the hotel every night at midnight to meditate. So I went down to the Kotel to meditate. And and I asked God, what am I supposed to do? I'm supposed to go back to the ashram I was only a two month leave of absence. I didn't have any money at the job prospects and he didn't know anybody except the you know, I was I was living in the Old City and learning at the Bay. And and, and in meditation. I got the answer. I'm supposed to stay. So I did it.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 19:52

JD, any additional questions you want to

JD Stettin: 19:55

Yeah, Sara, thanks so much for sharing that story. ask? I'm curious About the 15 years of monastic life, I know Mordy and I have done some, you know, weekend long retreats, my brother goes a annual vipassana retreat, but the idea of really living monastic life for 15 years seems so kind of wild to someone who's only ever dipped his toe in for a weekend at a time. And I'm just curious, I think in one of your talks and your YouTube channel, I heard you mentioned that the scheduling was sort of fairly light. There were too many formal meditations, there was a lot of work in the organic garden, but kind of curious what the day to day life was like for you over the course of that time.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 20:39

And what kept you there, for 15?

JD Stettin: 20:41

Yeah, yeah.

Sara Rigler: 20:42

Okay, so we meditated three times a day, which was great. Meditation is great. And, and I was in charge of the flower gardens, I was, we also had retreat cottages, we had to take turns. Once a week, I did the cooking for the community. I had to like, take turns cleaning the community house and cleaning the retreat cottages and preparing forget the retreat and who would come what kept me there was and I was also in charge of the publishing department, we had many books by Robert by us, by Swami param, in lambda, that had come out, he died in 1940. Because we had these books, now we're bringing them out in paperback. And I was very involved in book publishing. What kept me there was, it was a genuine spiritual path. The main thing was the guru system, the guru system is like, as I said, we had this Indian woman, she called herself the ego beater. And a real guru, like, forces you to do things that really stretch you beyond your comfort zone in huge ways. Like they're really, she used to say, if to boil the pot. So all the impurities come to the surface, so you can skim them off. So if anybody had a tendency toward jealousy, she would purposely set it up to make you jealous of the other person, you know, you'd like she would set it up though, she would set up all kinds of conflicts and things like that. She purposely in order to get people to be constantly working on themselves. And so it was the, this idea that you have to be constantly working on yourself. That and which is the main idea behind my, I have a webinar for marriage which woman to cash or wife webinar, to Jewish workshops, and, and the same idea, you have to be constantly working on yourself. Through, of course, we have different means of working on ourselves through Mercer and toe to toe retained ways. But that was really the most meditation was very powerful. Love of God was very big at the ashram, everybody had to choose an Ishta initiative means you're your own chosen, like aspect of God your own chosen, do we have Christian people there? Who chose Jesus, or Mary, and, and I write about this, I have a book on, on reincarnated souls from the Holocaust, my newest book, called, I've been here before, when souls of the Holocaust return. So the I'm a soul of the Holocaust, born in 1948, with my tell about my whole story, how I came to the understanding and acceptance that I had been lived and died in the Holocaust. So like, very strong experiences I had, but it's like I couldn't make my peace with the Jewish God, because of the Holocaust. And so I chose as an ish to calling the goddess of death. Goddess of death by hat, and through Kali through the Hindu goddess of death, I talk about this in my book, I've been here before I explain how through the Hindu goddess of death, I can understand that death is not the final thing for anybody. And it's and I got over this hump, Kali, the Hindu goddess of death led me back to the Jewish.

JD Stettin: 24:21

And was that something at the time, was that a connection that clicked for you in terms of seeing yourself as a soul who had perished in the Holocaust? And is that what led you to, to Kali or at the time was there some other reason you you chose that issue and it was only in retrospect that you were able to see how those things.

Sara Rigler: 24:41

It was only in retrospect, I was very drawn. Like, I'm a very spiritual person. So like, I go with my intuition a lot. And it's very even wonder that you're in India I was drawn to the Kali temple, this little, little Kali temple. It was very strange in though. But I think that God was directing me to the place I needed to go, I really need to make my peace with depth to come back to the Jewish God.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 25:15

How do you If someone asked you like what, what, what is spirituality? Or what does it mean to be a spiritual person? How would you explain that?

Sara Rigler: 25:28

To have a sense of your own identity as being a soul, an immortal soul who was connected to God, and beloved by God, as a soul as my identity, is, is like upper most that's the most important aspect of my being, but connected to God is also thing that I have a book called God winked tales and adventures, tales and lessons from my spiritual adventures. So I have a chapter in there called spirituality without God, and the New Age world that was part of the New Age world for 15 years. In the New Age world. There's a lot of spirituality without God and, and I think it's very off, because there's other there are a lot of spiritual forces around. But if you don't have God, not only in the picture, but as, as the picture we are, we are within God, we are within the God is, is the whole picture we are within God. If you don't have God is as a central element of your spiritual life. I think there's there's a lot of just, you know, a lot of frothy stuff that goes on in with people who are spiritually seeking. But you know, I don't know why it's so attractive to have spirituality without God. Salts also at the ashram, you know, I've although the ashram was very much about devotion, but there were people who came to the ashram who were into meditation and of course, Jews, of course, gravitated more toward Buddhism, Jews seeking spirituality and in the East gravitated, gravitated more toward Buddhism, like the pasta rather than Hinduism. Now Vipassana is is great, I mean, any, any kind of meditation that enables you to connect to your higher self to quiet the recording into the monkey mind, and connect to your higher self, makes you feel really good because you really are connecting with your higher self. But um, like, in Buddhism, there is no God. Buddha, Buddha never talked about God. Buddhism is a non is a non theistic religion. Crazy, and I think, again, Jews gravitated toward it, because they have so much, disaffected Jews have so much trouble with God.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 28:01

Yeah.

Sara Rigler: 28:01

I'll tell you something else. I want to say that this is my own theory, but I'd like to share it with you. When I was at Brandeis, one of the main things that I remember from my sophomore year at Brandeis was a, a panel discussion with Dr. Abraham Maslow, who I said was like the greatest name and you know, the founder of humanistic psychology, Maslow and some other Jewish professors talking about a humanistic concept of God was the idea of God as being the most noble part of a human being. And this excited me I mean, cuz I didn't I had no concept of got it because it was never talked about in my synagogue. So I remember calling my parents at the from the phone booth afterwards, telling them he was a cosmic god. Okay, great again. And the Maslow put down, you know, what does this have to do with what does God have to do with having to separate dishwashers and Newton, this is a Jewish suburb of Boston. So um, so the professor's there did not believe in God, especially the Jewish professors. And then I got to India, and Banaras Hindu University and all the professors believed in God, and even masters science departments in the philosophy department, they all believed in God, when I tried to figure out why, Brandeis, none of the professor's believed in God in India, all the professors believed in God and very intellectual, brilliant people. And, and I came to the conclusion, which I think is extremely important to look at this, that because Judaism gave to the Western world, a God who gives commandments when it gives mitzvahs do not commit adultery, right? So if you want to commit adultery, you've got to get rid of God. That's and that started with the renaissance that started with Rousseau, this you know, not with the Enlightenment with the French Enlightenment, you know, you gotta get after the Renaissance, the enlightenment, you got to get rid of God so you can do what you want. So you can Rousseau had a mistress many children's for the mistress that he literally gave to be to die at the hospital there that really didn't take care of infants. In India, God does not give commandments. So you can believe in God and do what you want. I think the big obstacle and the West to believe in God if I believe in God, because there is no other God here in the West, except the god the Jews gave to the world, which is a God who gave 10 commandments, and like don't murder, don't steal, don't commit adultery. And so if you want to do what you want to what you want to do, you got to get rid of God in the West.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 30:51

Yeah, I think that the way I agree with you, the way God is taught to kids, even in traditional Jewish setting and I think probably is true in like your Christian setting, also is that it's like there's this old man in the sky, who's looking down with his like Notepad and trying to mark these to catch you for any any wrongdoing. Right. And, and that results in like, well, so really, like when I thought about God growing up, he was just kind of a source of punishment, right? And I would just be, you know, if I thought I had done something wrong, then like, then I maybe didn't feel comfortable praying like the next day as much enough to kind of go more quickly because he didn't, I thought God didn't want to hear from me like that. The other day, you have the idea of God being everything, you know, and you being a part of it, in that and in God being well, how do you? What have you encountered because I, you're inside of a community, like how do you find that God is talked about? What do you think people get right or wrong? Yeah, in the community? About about that, what do you think people should know about it

Sara Rigler: 32:00

or think about it? Well, I certainly found I live in the Old City of Jerusalem. First of all, there's a lot of Bali czuba here. So while Juba community, does not have your background, they didn't grow up with this idea of a punishing God. And instead, they were very influenced by Hasidic thought, this morning to love a loving God. And I'm here in the Old City, and Aisha Torah, is, you know, a very big presence in the Old City of Jerusalem, and the founder of Aisha Torah, Rob no off Weinberg. He used to say to all the teachers who they sent out all over the world to teach us to say the most important thing to tell you what this Rabbi Rothman who was a rabbi in Asia, Thornhill and Canada, like right outside of Toronto, told me I was invited there to speak several times. And he said every week rabbi, no, Weinberg would call and say, What do you want to talk about the congregation this week? And he would tell him, and Rabbi Weinberg would say, the most important thing to tell people is that Hashem loves you. And I absolutely that became the guiding light of all my teaching you the the most important thing that I always tell people is you have the bottom line starting point is that God loves you. And you are right, you are so right, modify the way that many Jews in the Orthodox world have been raised. I mean, I have somebody here, FM Swirsky. He's a hypnosis hypnotherapist who does past life regressions, one of my neighbors, and he told me that and he does all kinds of not just past life regressions, but he helps people psychologically with hypnosis. So have from a couple sent their young married daughter who was living in Jerusalem to him. And after the first session, they said to us, what did he said say to you, he's, I mean, he's from he's a religious man. What did he say to you? And she said, he said to me that God loves me. And they said, He's Christian, don't go back. Don't go back. You can I remember in Philly, over the Ben Franklin Bridge and the way from Camden to Philadelphia when I was a child, there was a big billboard saying Jesus loves you. And like that, you know is that was Christianity. I never heard that message in Judaism until Rob no off Weinberg you know, is very bonafide credentials. You know, started saying that that is the most important message you have to know that God loves you.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 34:46

Yeah, okay.

JD Stettin: 34:48

Yeah, it's occurred to me and I grew up in an interesting crossroads of what I would say. Modern orthodoxy and siddhis. I went to modern Orthodox schools but davinder Stiebel so had a lot of the kind of mechanistic, legalistic God, but also some really deep spiritual, you know, sitting at the doing a Tisch and really going down that that path and, and, and my dad grew up in Habad tradition and there is a lot of or at least through him felt a lot of that God and God loves you and it doesn't matter quite who you are what you do, and then going to college and reading the New Testament for the first time and reading Jesus and going, Oh, this guy, there's like the status and some of what Jesus says there's like some really beautiful synergy about feeling oneness and feeling God's love in that way that really felt absent from certainly a lot of the more like lit Vishnu Shiva ish tradition that I was also a part of.

Sara Rigler: 36:00

Yes, yes, absolutely. The love thing. I mean, Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, wonderful Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, Rabbi, Lord Jonathan Sacks. So he has written about this, how this the great the great lie that Christianity perpetrated on the western world that Judaism is religion of law, and Christianity is a religion of love, and how it's not true and he brings all kinds of sources that history, non Jewish historians, like you know, the idea of God of love is you know, is from Judaism that the DA which is clearly am if you read Torah, you know, you you see it, you know, we have to lay out a como Han we have to edition maloca loving, love the two major principles love God and love other people. But um I think that the, there has definitely been a wrong emphasis in the direction that Judaism went in its own. And it's because Jews, the Jewish people are so precious to God, God, you know, always sends corrects him. So he sent correction in the 18th century with because you do have to do that address the problem of this very, you know, there's just like, sitting there like, the lack of love, the lack of joy, he sent us Hashem sent the Baal Shem Tov into the world to correct that. And then you know, later within the next century, he sent rubs this was Atlanta with the Mr. movement also was like a self correction work, you have to learn to work on yourself and correct your, your mediocre character traits. And, and in our day, there are there's so much correction, there's, you know, if you want to, if you want to listen to like anything, you know, you have a time Heritage Foundation, or like just many, many, many teachers who are teaching, you know, this teaching of the genuine religious Judaism of love and connection to God and loving your neighbor, and loving yourself that the the, the three relationships there's a, an orthodox psychologist in is actually at Harvard, on the staff of Harvard Medical School, Dr. David Rose Moran, and he wrote a book called connections which he wrote for a general population. And he talks about how in Judaism of course, we know that there are three relationships, they ended last mile between a person and himself or herself. They didn't have a rope between a person and another person and in a dominant makan between a person and God. And he says, and this is based on what he learned from my by late Kelemen, who was a student of Rush Limbaugh Walpa, who was a student of the Muslim movement, a great, great excellent dispositor of the Muslim movement, that you have to start with the first relationship between you and yourself. You have to love yourself you cannot graduate to loving other people and loving God until you love yourself and how you go about loving yourself and it's the key basically, and he actually has the gall to be quoting Rabbi laid Kelemen about every three pages when he which he does when even with his his non Jewish clientele.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 39:34

Hmm I wonder if one of the challenges with with that is is it's sometimes it's hard for people to feel that they are loved yeah and and yeah, maybe you may see this in your in you're in the women's network but you know, I have this conversation with my with my father a lot does he's always says he feels totally beloved of God and like God is like dribbling every step, you know, and he'll say, Oh, do you feel like love? Bye guys? Well, like I kind of know that I'm loved by God, but as far as dealing it, I'm not I'm not sure you know, and like with your, with my kids like, I know I can feel that I love that. Right but to then turn around, it's like, well, can you also recommend that you state you are loved by them? Right and feel, you know, by my wife by my parents, right? I think it's, for some reason, at least for me personally, I don't know if other people have this logical house experience, but it's sometimes like, harder to feel that you are loved, you know, which is kind of like a gateway to it. It's easier to feel guilty than to feel loved. Yes, sometimes.

Sara Rigler: 40:44

Yes, you need, like everything else in the spiritual life, you need to work on it. So I think the way to the way to feel loved by God is to go the route of gratitude just to become aware, everything is about consciousness, to become aware of, of what God does for you. Like I recommend to the women in my cache or wife club, to every day, thank God for five things you've never thanked him for before. That means that you have to become aware of the blessings of the day before, so that we because we just we kill gratitude because we take everything for granted. Just so to look at the blessing of the day for like what did I thank God for I do this every single day of my life, including Yom Kippur war, no matter how busy I am playing to catch whatever I always thank God for five start my day by thanking God for five things I've never thanked him for before. This means a guaranteed way to start your day happy no matter what's going on in your life. So So what did I thank Hashem for this morning. So I thank to shim for yesterday, I gave my webinar that the technology the webinar, you know, worked, you know, I said here, the Old City of Jerusalem or Wi Fi, and talk to women literally all over the world. And as is my thank to Shem, that the Wi Fi worked, I thank him for all the women who came on to the webinar, who want to learn from me, I thanked him for giving me the ideas that I could teach or teaching now like amazing the stuff about bringing God consciousness into your daily life with this starboard glass of water, how you can fulfill five minutes boat, every time you drink a glass of water, it's like, it's really great. And and then I thanked Hashem, that my husband, I live in the Old City of Jerusalem, can't drive a car up to our house, there's a parking lot, five minutes away from our house. So you have to walk these narrow cobblestone lanes to get to it. So I had something heavy I needed. I want to take back to a store and return it. But it was really too heavy for me to carry. So my wonderful husband carried it to the car and put it in the trunk of the car. So I thanked him for that. Then my husband did that for me because I couldn't do it for myself. And then I always thank God for some kind of nice dessert or something good. I had to eat yesterday. So my husband also made these great peanut butter chocolate things. So I thanked him for that. Do a little peanut butter chocolate thing. And what else did I thank Hashem for this morning? I have to remember what else what was the fifth thing? Maybe that I got to talk to one of my grandchildren? Jim for that, like I would not I would not thank God for my grandchild because then you'd use never use it again. But then I thank God for this one conversation with this one grandchild, I could thank God for so when you start to see your life, in terms of all the gifts that God gives you instead of taking them for granted. You know like you like my I wrote a book The Hollywood my first book holy woman was about was a biography of represent highest Dr. Kramer she was a Holocaust survivor. And she lost originalist, her entire family. She got out of Auschwitz at the age of 20. She had no living relatives. And she had been experimented on by Dr. Mengele. And she married she married along with about sodic. And I think she was alone with both Sadiq and one of the 36 righteous people who's married supports the whole world. But they never had children. She lived in great poverty. She spent her whole life taking care of multiple handicapped children, for which she was never paid, never had a day off and an amazing person so she told me she said we should be I think we should be missive in saying HollyWell praises a whole series of say praises of God for every breath. That's what we should be doing. I mean, we take a breath and we're just, you know, we're, we just take it for granted non Vipassana meditation talking about the JDS was which was uj D who said that you would have done patient retreats. So the past, you're meditating on your constant training on your breathing, which is a nice neutral thing to really quiets the mind every bite, you can take it so much further to thank God for every breath is a gift of God's love. I mean, what a shame to waste consciousness of every breath. With just I'm just conscious in and out in and out without a wait a second, how much God loves me, He gives me this breath you give me we saw during COVID When people couldn't breathe, and trouble breathing? How will you know you need to lose something in order to learn to appreciate it. You know, Hashem gives us every breath, how can we not be grateful? And then you see that that are our world is Oh, I know the fifth thing I thank God for this morning. I was I was sitting outside. We have a headset, a courtyard, a small courtyard with plants. And it was a plant that bloomed about six weeks ago. But I looked in front of me, and it was putting out one small purple flower, you know, let's do that they perennials, they'll they'll bloom at a certain time in the summer. And then they're over. But then like six weeks later, they'll put it one flower. So there was this one little purple flower, and just perfect, a perfect flower. And I thanked Hashem for that perfect flower. Wow, Hashem loves me so much. You put this little purple, perfect purple flower right in front of my eye view a meter away.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 46:26

Yeah, so it really makes me more sensitive to all those things that normally we come and go and you wouldn't even say recognizes kindness or an act of love.

Sara Rigler: 46:35

Absolutely. The only way you can not feel loved mortify is to just take for granted. Everything you know that that you've received in your life? I mean, you said something about loving your children do they love you, for sure you love your children more than they will ever love you. Because says that, you know, the more you give, the more you love. But this is a big problem today and people like you know, they're my parents were so bad and this and this and this that, Hey, did he change your diaper? Did he pay for your food with your child? Did he give you a place to sleep and you'd have to see down the street in the rain. I mean, total lack of appreciation and gratitude for what people do for us, which leads to a lack of consciousness of how loved we are. increased our consciousness of everything we're receiving on a moment to moment basis, we would feel loved.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 47:30

Yeah.

Sara Rigler: 47:32

JD asked about what life in the ashram was like, so as living him as a monastic in the ashram, so in Hinduism, and it's the same in Buddhism, the ultimate goal is detachment. Unlike Buddhism and Hinduism, we loved God, but you didn't have your lack of any attachment to any human beings. No connection. And this is an in Buddhism also there are five noble truths in Buddhism, number one, life is suffering. Number two, the cause of suffering is desire. Number three, you get rid of desire, you get rid of suffering by by getting rid of desire, which means attachment for anything. All Eastern paths or paths of detachment, you become detached from other people. That's why you're monastic. That's why Hinduism Buddhism also Christianity, the highest path is to be is to be celibate, because you don't have attachments. Judaism is the only religion that says the highest path to God is marriage. Because Judaism is a religion of connection. In Judaism, the ultimate value is connection. So it was very hard, being a monastic for all those years, because not only relations between men and women were discouraged. But even if two of the two of them women, monastics would start to forge to closer friendship models, our Guru would try to break it up, you don't get attached to human beings, you don't get attached to anybody. And that's probably the biggest difference between Judaism and all the other religions. We are the religion of connection. Yes, you get attached, you have a wife or a husband, you have children, you have close connections with your family, and your close connections with your fellow Jew and Rob. Rob cook talks about concentric circles starting with love of oneself and then love of one's family and then love of the Jewish people and then love of all human beings and the love of all sentient beings where you can care about the whales. But Judaism is all about connection. And the other religions are all about detachment.

JD Stettin: 49:42

That's such a Yeah, it's such a powerful thought. I think. Something that I noticed myself struggling with and over the years is the way in which some of those Eastern paths do for me at least come at the expense of you know, spiritual bypassing and kind of ignoring or feeling like you have to shunt away aspects of your humanity to your point connection, connection with others, and that that's been a hard, strange pill to swallow in that world. And it feels, and talking to psychologists and therapists about this, that there's a way in which it really feels like it's denying aspects of humanity. I mean, we're such a social species where among other social species, and those connections seem to be really valuable, and important for our mental and emotional and I think even sociologists are saying now physical health, that one of the great predictors of longevity is not necessarily diet or exercise, but how much a part of a community you feel in your place, among others, and that there's even one study I just saw that shows that it would be preferable to smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, but be part of a community, then never smoke and have a sense of alienation and isolation.

Sara Rigler: 51:03

Absolutely. And married people live longer. Although the studies have broken down, people were happily married. This is a really important point. Because, I mean, in the end, we were a small community, I joined in 1970. And what had happened was that I think I mentioned the Ram Dass article I wrote, When h.com was our guru was the guru of Timothy Leary, you know, the hype of LSD. And he was very into LSD. In the 60s, he was a disciple of our Guru Mata Ji. And at some point, she said to him, Tim, the Kansas one you can't serve two masters, I think maybe it's something from the New Testament, one, serve two masters. And in other words, you can't serve LSD, and also meditation spirit, you know, and, and he said, I disagree. And he broke off from her and he took almost all the ashram community with him to mill, which was a, which was an LSD community that he founded. So when I came in 1970, there were only that we had to auction was one in Massachusetts, one in California, in Massachusetts, were only two elderly members of the monastic community there are there Richard was in his 70s. And Marguerite was a retired psychiatric nurse also in her 70s, or maybe in her 60s At that point, and, and in California, there were more. But after I joined in 1970, more young people came and we had by the time that the mid 70s, we had a vibrant young community, never, never more than 10 or 12, monastics, but we but it was a very vibrant community, and many people came from the outside, all all of the monastics of the 70s and 80s. I left in 1985, all of the monastics eventually left to get married, or there were a couple who were two of the sisters were lesbians, so they left they didn't get married, but they went it all eventually left. So the people in the ashram, the ashram continues, but I'm with new people, because the point was living a monastic life without relationship just didn't do it. It didn't bring the kind of fulfillment and happiness, that happiness was not a value at the ashram at all. And sin has a big value in Judaism. But it wasn't at the ashram happiness, the only value at the ashram was to progress and to have got and get Samadhi Samadhi show which is liberation, liberation from the work from the, from the wheel of birth and death, which you get by attaining Samadhi, which is the ultimate god consciousness. And people you know, people spend their life trying to get it, it's very hard to get Samadhi Yeah, it didn't satisfy was not a satisfying way of life because it lacked relationship.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 54:14

Do you think that the goal of Judaism is also Samadhi?

Sara Rigler: 54:19

No, no, Judaism is not Samadhi the goal of Judaism is, is to have to have such love of God and, and connection to God, that will we get to the next world Judaism as you know, the sages say is a card with this world card or to the next world. What's what's happening in the next world. The next world is where it's all taking place because it's eternal. This world is very temporary. And what's happening in its world is that you you got the bliss of ZBrush Tina, you The light of the Divine Presence. So to the extent that you have cultivated spiritual consciousness in this world, you will enjoy the next world which is, it's the only show in town. I mean, it's ridiculous. The, the Muslim concept of the next world is you get 40 to 72 virgins and everything. There's no physicality in the next world. There's no physical pleasure in the next world, there's only the light of the Divine Presence. And so to the extent that you in this world, you have cultivated a divine consciousness, bye, bye, bye appreciate appreciating the presence and love of God, then you get to the next world and wow, you know, like the, it's like, the difference between the example given I think is a good one of somebody who has cultivated in this lifetime, a love for classical music, and they get to next world and it's just a 24/7 classical music concert with the most virtuoso music musicians playing. So it's like wow, bliss. But if in this world in this lifetime, you've cultivated only a love of acid rock, you get to the next world and they're playing classical music 24/7 It's going to be hell for you. And that's what that's what the difference between heaven and hell is, hell is not a place hell is you get to the next world and you don't have a body so there's no physical pleasure you spent your whole life you know, volved with the body and now there is no body. No physical pleasure. So I this is how you cultivate a love for God and for spiritual consciousness. Then the next word is bliss is heaven.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 56:43

Yeah, and there are no iPhones and no Instagram and no Tiktok. So you know, what are people? What are you gonna do if that's what you've been? Doing your time?

Sara Rigler: 56:52

Oh, virtual reality?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 56:54

Yeah. So how do you view like the Torah and then mitzvoh like, because it is a legalistic religion, and there are at least 613 commandments, but there's subsections of all those right? So it's so what is that? Yeah, that being a path going somewhere, right? But how do you how do you conceive of all of the rules, right, which are, which I understand are just like we used to get tripped up, you know, it's things that you can do wrong.

Sara Rigler: 57:27

So the rules were rules given by God we believe that God gave the Torah and he gave us of what they were saying he has an owner's manual for planet Earth you know how how to operate in this world in a way that will give you God consciousness. So don't eat these foods because they'll be bad for you spiritually, just like there are certain foods that are carcinogenic there are certain shellfish pork, things that you're not allowed to eat or things they're because they're bad for you spiritually they that was eating kosher foods is good for you spiritually. So the the I'll give you an example of why what you call legalistic. I don't like that word, because it's so so dry. I don't think the mitzvot are dry at all. But they there's a mitzvah, you have to learn how to mocha which rub Love your neighbor as yourself, which Rabbi Akiva with one of the greatest of the sages said is the basic principle, the Torah, love your neighbor as yourself cloud good, though, but Torah. And so how do you love your neighbors yourself? So you have Christianity that doesn't have a legalistic formulation of how to love they talk a lot about love, but, but then they kill people in the crusades, and they kill people in the Inquisition that can you know, and they're there, because they didn't put it down into a legal formula. The love just goes nowhere. So Judaism you have my mind at ease. Rambam said you fulfill the mitzvah of loving your neighbor as yourself in three ways. Number one is to provide for their physical needs. That's why in the, in the Haredi telephone book of Jerusalem, there's about an inch and a half thick of pages of the mocking, mocking or freelance society so people will and lend you not only money interest free, but if you need clothes you need you're having some kind of a celebration you tables, you need chairs, you need tablecloths, you need pots, whatever, there's like literally hundreds of your mechanic Amok you because you're to fulfill the mitzvah of Love your neighbor as yourself. The first way to do it is providing for their physical needs. The second way to do it is by treating them with respect. And the third way to do it is by speaking well of them. So that's the legality of it, as you would call it, that legality of it. You can't just oh love your name. immerse yourself oh sounds so great. But Christianity is the great example of how they talk about love. But if you don't have a legal definition of how you actually implement the commandment, it goes nowhere. And you have people, you know the Crusaders, I'm living here in Jerusalem, where the Crusaders when they got here in in 1099, they, they killed every Muslim and Jew in the city and the blood was knee deep. Because they love they love they love. Yeah, but that didn't keep them from killing anybody. You know? So you need to have parameters for implementing the commandments. I don't see it as legalistic I see it as this as making them real. How do you real that's one of the commandments of the Torah is to keep Shabbat so that you know to make it holy. So this is a real important commandment, how do you do it? So you might say, well, they're all these restrictions. But otherwise, it's just like, Oh, I remember someone I had a conversation with my first year in Israel. I was taking Wilpon at Hebrew University, and someone's saying I only I don't believe in the whole tour, we're just in the 10 commandments. And I said, well, one of the 10 commandments is to observe Shabbat to make it holy. And she says, I do I go to the beach, and I look at the sunset. Well, I mean, that's nice. But how long does going to the beach? And, and looking at the sunset? How long does it work to bring a sense of God as the creator and controller of the universe into controlling your life? If you're keeping Shabbat as, as as the restrictions of Shabbat ordain, then there's all these things that you have to admit that I have no control over on Shabbat? I can't, I didn't do it before Shabbat I can't do it now. Because only God is the controller. So, you know, I don't see them as legalese. I see them as we've got to make it real. That's why the guru system worked at the ashram because there was somebody there saying, pushing you to like to grow beyond your comfort zone. If people are not, you're not pushed to grow beyond their comfort zone, they end up as couch potatoes.

JD Stettin: 1:02:16

I'm curious about that as well, in terms of what did your guru. So you said she liked to kind of poke the bear as the saying goes and gets you gets you right? Where are your weaknesses or tendencies were? And then what tools did she have? Or did the community offer to them? Okay, so let's say you gave the example someone who is prone to jealousy, you should put them in a situation where they would be jealous of someone else. Okay, so let's say you're that person, you realize I'm overcome with jealousy? What tools? What Mussar? What was? What were the tools at hand for growing with or through or because of, of those moments?

Sara Rigler: 1:02:57

So the truth is, she didn't have tools. She believed, as I said, that you just put a fire under the pot, and all the impurities come to the surface. So you've become self aware. So now you're aware of your jealousy, you're aware of this, you are so jealous of this other person in the community? How do you deal with it? She didn't give us a way to deal with it. IDM awareness leads to, to somehow purification. But I again, I don't force in Judaism, we, we have all these commandments. So I'm jealous. I've said there's a commandment. I'll talk mode, law, that mode. Don't be don't envy somebody else. So how do you do what you do by recognizing that this person has what God gave them? The talents, the house, the car, the spouse, the clothes that God gave them? And God didn't give to me, and then God's in control. And God gives each person what they need, because God loves us. So you see how Judaism that has very specific things behind the commandments that work? I don't think it didn't work. It didn't work. It didn't work there. As you have just tried to be a better person, you know that jealousy is not a good thing. You're recognizing that you're feeling jealous? Work on it, but how to work with her. She didn't tell us there. Were there. I don't use any. I don't think there's any Hindu of handbook that tells you how to work on jealousy.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:04:23

I love that. Sorry. I want to I want to be respectful of your time. JD, any other questions you want to ask before we--?

JD Stettin: 1:04:30

Many more but I don't think we have have time. So I don't know. Sara, if there's anything you want to share with us or--

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:04:36

How can people find you?

Sara Rigler: 1:04:39

People could go on my website, which is sararigler.com. All my books are there. I'm a writer. So I mean, like I've spent a lot of my life writing down the ideas we've been talking about. I have a are two books that that are really life changers. I all my books, I hope our life changers I I don't consider myself a writer I consider myself a polemicist. I never write anything, except to try to convince someone to do something that will lead them forward in their spiritual growth, my, my mission in life and that's one of the there's a chapter in my book, God winked his chapter on ascertaining your mission, everybody has a God given mission in life. My mission is to inspire people to move forward in their personal and spiritual development and relationship with Hashem. So everything I write, is with that goal in mind. So but there are two biographies of robots and highest are Kramer called Holly woman, and represent Henny Marsalis, who is a contemporary woman modern, born modern Orthodox in Brooklyn, who's the host 300 people on a per shot is in her very modest Jerusalem apartment with her husband and her 14 children and an extraordinary person who worked on herself to become a Jerusalem legend. And so so both those books are how to get there not just, you know, you have to see that it's possible for human beings to get there and get to these high spiritual state. And then I have a book called battle plans how to fight the Sahara, the ribs and Heller that has 56 battle plans on how to fight, depression, jealousy, anger, desire, and all the gates or Hara things and comes with a quick quick rescue plan. The cards you just whatever you're feeling, like what's the battle plan, all based on Jewish sources. And so I hope that the listeners, if you're interested, will, will read some of my books and my latest book, I guess maybe I do want to tell you a little bit about my latest book. I've been here before when souls of the Holocaust returned, return. So I interviewed I, I have subjects I had 550 people who were my research sample. In this book, people who 450 people filled in my online survey survey and 100 people wrote me emails, the point of the book is whether or not you are reincarnated soul of the Holocaust, and many people today are. But we've all been here before the resolve the great mystic greatness of the Jewish mystics. They are resolved, lived in the 16th century and sat and spots happened. He said in the 16th century, there are no new souls coming into the world. We are all old souls. And I think that's a really important the point of the book. It's not just to talk about Holocaust, reincarnation. And I talked about how it's a Jewish concept. And I give the very, very fascinating stories of how people including non Jews, many non Jews, have, you know, these dreams and, and experiences even as young children before they ever read anything about the Holocaust, or saw Holocaust movie. But the point is, we all have a past, we've all been here before. And we tend to be very judgmental of ourselves and other people. And I like to say that there are no irrational behaviors, every behavior, every fear, every attraction, every desire, every every aversion has has a reason, usually rooted you rooted either in childhood, or in a past life. So when you recognize that you stop judging yourself and other people for why you're lacking like that, you know, why you act like you're acting like this other person's acting like that? Because they had an experience either in this lifetime, where a previous lifetime that makes them act like, you know, and I think that it's a really important consciousness for people to develop. And I hope people will read that book I've been here before. Because it gives you a sense of two things. One that you everybody has a past that accounts for why we are the way we are, why your spouse or your children or your friends or your enemies are the way they are. And also the last third of the book is about Tikkun we all come into this world for the purpose of tikkun which means rectification that is really the purpose of the nonagon going over here, particular meters, which means rectify our character traits. So if we have a tendency to anger we have to fix it. We have a tendency towards selfishness and greediness, we have to fix it. We have a tendency to tell the tale self protective lies, we have to fix it. So the book has examples of people doing who are souls of the Holocaust, doing TiECon on their fears and their In some case cowardice or whatever that whatever their thing was. So I think that's an orientation that everybody has to develop, which is, what is my TiECon. And that will determine, you know, the direction in which my spiritual life needs to go.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:10:17

That sounds really interesting. So definitely encourage all the listeners to check that out. Yes, it certainly well. Yeah, sorry. Yes. I really appreciate your time. This was it was just wonderful. And great. So many more questions. So maybe maybe one day we'll we'll do a second episode. But But thank you, again, so much, so much for your time. And thank you for everything you do for the Jewish people for humanity, and you know, everyone who's around you.

Sara Rigler: 1:10:45

You're very welcome and very happy to talk to you and you're invited to come to my house in the Old City of Jerusalem, to carry on nation, and you should be inscribed and sealed you and all of your listeners should be inscribed and sealed for a new year that takes you closer to your own highest self.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:11:03

I mean, and to you as well.

Sara Rigler: 1:11:06

Through joy, not through suffering through joy.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:11:09

I love it. I love it. All right. Thank you so much.

JD Stettin: 1:11:13

Thanks so much. All right.