Episode 27: Being Vulnerable

JD and Mordecai discuss being vulnerable, connecting and sharing with others.

Timestamps:
0:00 - How much do you feel like this is a period of clarity?

5:01 - We are meant to spend a lot of our time in connection with others.

14:03 - Why we listen to podcasts.

19:56 - Letting go via connection and sharing.

28:01 - Taking an inventory of mental patterns and habits.

32:52 - What’s going on in our heads.

38:55 - Lead with what you want to share.

46:00 - Being vulnerable in the presence of others.

Transcript

Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:00

JD, here. We are still perplexed. We're recording this right after the Jewish New Year, which is, I don't know, I think maybe that's supposed to be days of clarity. But I wonder how much people feel this? I don't know. Did you feel comparing that this Rosh Hoshanah to a year ago, would you say you feel more or less clarity? Perplexity?

JD Stettin: 0:30

It's funny. I was thinking in my head, and maybe this isn't, maybe this isn't right. But there are none of the days of awe right. So when you said days of clarity, I was like, wait a minute, days of awe, but maybe maybe part of the days of awe is like that. There's no clarity. There's just, there's just awe or possibly someone's experience of that. I can't say for me that this is a period of awe. But maybe, maybe not even Well, yeah, no, I'll give it I'll say a little bit, a little bit of clarity, a little bit of insight. Definitely more this year, than last year. Yeah, if I think back to, again, about a year ago, mid late September of last year, that was a period of great, let's say great confusion in my life. And I don't know that I would say this is a period of great clarity. But but there's definitely feels like clarities and emergent, emergent property.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:35

I would imagine that the only, like, animal species that has a desire for clarity, are humans. Yeah, I'm wondering. You know, I'll tell you--

JD Stettin: 1:54

We're the only ones who need it.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 1:55

Or need it. Yeah. Or we think we need it. It's one of the we recently bought a bird feeder. And that's been like, it's become like, my, my wife and my, like, new obsession. And my wife is particularly shocking, because she was like, she's not into, you know, she was not so into it. I said, You know what, let's try it. But it's amazing to see all the different birds like flock to it. Right, and they never know, like, you know, like yesterday went through really fast. It's like four hours made and throughout the whole feeder. But those birds, like they don't know that I'm going to keep on refilling it. They just, they don't have clarity, but they just don't they just kind of go with it. You know, I think one of the things that we do is this, I mean, in a way, like a basis for like, our whole podcast is just because like we get stuck in our heads. Yeah, like just thinking it's it's very it's very solipsistic, and in a way, you know, like, we're, you know, we're just as if, like, the, like, what's going on in our heads is like, so important, you know, or, like, we have to figure that out. You know, one thing that I saw so, you know, before the holiday, we had to make some, like last minute changes to our plans were supposed to go away, and then something came up and we couldn't go away. And so, you know, it's kind of like in a funk about it. And then I said, you know, what, you know, I'd love to see my, you know, I haven't seen my grandparents in a couple of weeks. Yeah, my wife said, oh, just, it was 130 in the afternoon, she's like getting the car down, go, you could be there in half an hour, and spend half an hour there. And then you'd come back, like it'll be back with plenty of time. So she, she had a cake that she had made and she's like your take this cake to them go, right. And so I went and I spent the time with them. I saw my mother also, on the way back, I was able to talk to a friend I hadn't spoken to in a year or so I had a nice short conversation with him and realized that like doing for others does get you out of your own head. You know, when you come back and you when you when you're our natural, our natural reflex when we're upset is to kind of like go inwards. You know until like, figure out why we're upset or maybe it's like even practicing this letting go and trying to feel intuitive Breathe, breathe into it, but in my experience is that if you if you when you're feeling upset if instead you do the opposite, and you kind of just go out and do something for someone else, do some kindness. Maybe it's calling a friend you haven't spoken to for a while calling a loved one. Yet, maybe that's kind of a hack so to soeak to get you out of your head. What do you think about that?

JD Stettin: 5:01

Yeah, that really lands. And we were texting about something along these lines, I think last week, and to me, it reminds me of I know we've brought it up maybe a couple of times in the show or a couple times in our conversation, but polyvagal theory and the idea that we really are meant to spend a lot of our time in connection, and in relationship with with others. And there's a way in which when when I feel or when we do feel kind of lost or trapped in some solipsistic death spiral, whatever it is, thoughts and wishes and hopes that a great way to get out of our own way is to is to connect and reconnect with with others. And that could be you know, like you were saying, with your grandparents or with an old friend. I think also even going back to seeing that the bird feeder, and the birds I know, funny, my mom and stepdad actually just got into that maybe about a year ago, and they are so religious about feeding, making sure that the feeders are full every day, because apparently, the birds do come to rely on them. And so if you like, you know, have the bird feeder up for a few weeks, and it's empty for a couple of weeks or days, it's actually apparently very disruptive, because the birds are going to keep coming back to that place. And it'll take them a while to adjust to the fact that there's no food. So anyway, they're very diligent about it, and also get a lot of joy out of looking and watching and identifying the birds. But even that being a path to connection, and there's a way in which the feelings of I think, so much of what feels hard at times is is some sort of disconnection, disconnection with myself or not feeling tied into the people of the world around me. And so yeah, a great remedy to that is tapping into an existing connection that we're otherwise maybe overlooking in our smallness or closeness, when we're having difficult feelings. But it is it does feel so much like a familiar reflex to me of when things are tough of kind of, like turtling, you know, you just go inwards. Because it feels maybe safer. Like I'm going to protect myself, when in reality, it's actually expanding outwards, that is often a path to connection, and that I think helps us feel better or feel more alive.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 7:53

Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about people's like self care rituals, or even like my morning routine. It's mean, it's gotten pared back, some for better, some not for better, but it's but it's all it was all for the most part, it was all alone activities, for the most part, you know, is journaling alone, prayer, Well, yes, I could, I could pray, but it's still like, you're there, you're there. You're kind of in your own prayer. The cold plunge, if that were a part of my morning routine would be meditation alone, sure. Working out, you know, now me I will go running with my wife a few times a week, but if I'm doing like, resistance training, a lot of the other training that's that's alone, right? And so, and those are kind of the boxes that I want to check. Reading, reading would be a, you know, alone. But I wonder if it probably would make sense as part of someone's like self care regimen is to scheduled times of connection. You know, like, I don't know, if you if people look at their weekly schedule and say, okay, when am I going to get in my conversations with friends or with colleagues, like I find even in a work setting, you know, again, just if I'm just answering emails, I won't feel like things are necessarily moving. But if I can have a conversation with someone that's that feels generative. That might be an interesting thing is to actually like blocking time for connecting and even it's like meal planning, you can map out at the beginning of the week, like who you want to speak to. Right, but I bet that would do maybe more for people's state of mind sometimes then, meditating for meditation is also important but at 30 minute phone call with a friend might be more than like a 30 minute meditation by yourself. Like make your meditation 10 minutes and then call your friend for 20 minutes.

JD Stettin: 10:08

Yeah, I love that. And that totally resonates. And sometimes I noticed that myself I struggled to think like, Well, why I'm doing all these different things to your point like the workout regimen, the the reading, the writing, the meditating, and these are all can be very good and very healing activities, but especially in kind of whatever current life structure and now, I mean, I think we both mostly work remotely, which means from home with, you know, no one else around during the day, there's really something to be said, for that connection. I forget, if I shared this on the podcast before a bit, I played Pickleball for the first time this summer. I never grew up playing racquet sports, it was all new to me. And after the first time, and it's first time playing a sport, kind of like swinging at things and making a you know, a mess of it. But I left the park and I was elated. And thinking about why that was like, you know, worked out every day for the last 18 years. It's not like oh, cardio thing. I've played sports before, but I hadn't played team sports or anything like that since before COVID. It just had, you know, that part of my life hadn't kind of come back yet. And there's something about running around with other people that end even communicating and talking and scoring. And you know, a little bit of like, joke trash talking, because none of us are very good. But there's something about that, that really elevated it from a workout to a very connective experience. I think about it all the time. Actually, as it relates to music, I, I have so little interest in sitting down by myself to like practice guitar, or practice singing or practice, whatever. But get me in a room with like one other even one other friend, neither of us have to be very good. And I am happy to like sing and play until like I go hoarse. And, and they're just there is this different quality to doing things, I think in in connection. And there's a way in which I suppose one can feel in connection even alone, right perhaps connection to oneself connection to if you believe in a God or a greater universe or anything like that. And that feels like an edge that I'd like to keep cultivating. And maybe that's where some of the silent or meditative practices come in. But there's something really nourishing about being with other people doing things other people conversing, communicating with other people. And I think even, you know, why do we do this podcast right to be famous and make a lot of money for those of you listening? So please, yes, spread the word support as materialistic goals. Yeah, but I think for me, the Genesis and what I keep coming back to is A. I just really enjoy it and B. I feel really good. Every time we sign off, and it's not necessarily because I feel like we've expounded on some noble truths or like unearth maybe sometimes we do. I don't know if anyone would say that. But there's something just really good about connecting with a close friend about these things. Even if we're not I'm not saying or learning or hearing anything new. There's just the action, the connecting over the spirituality, in addition to or instead of just doing it by myself in the mornings. Yeah, it feels great.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 14:03

Yeah, it's actually me, is why you feels so good. I get it from anyone. A meaningful amount of time with me.

JD Stettin: 14:14

If you're looking for good Yom Kippur Messiah, this is your guy. Yeah, exactly.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 14:18

Exactly. No, but I agree. I mean, in some ways, like we get like, this is it's like scheduled connection time. You know, I mean, I think in the Genesis was like, what, we should connect more regularly. And we said, oh, why don't we just like when we were recording ourselves, and there'll be a podcast and now look--

JD Stettin: 14:43

How far we've come!

Mordecai Rosenberg: 14:45

How far we've come, how far we've come. Yeah. Interesting thing about podcasts though, is that they last forever. I mean, you're not forever, forever, but like as people find it like this stuff that that's recorded. I mean, this happens to me all the time, right? You find a podcast that you like, and then you like, go back to the beginning two years ago and see what other conversations that they had that you would enjoy. You know, so it's, it's, it is kind of an interesting thing, how you can, it's not like, you know, like you write in, I don't know, an editorial in a newspaper, and if someone didn't see it like that, you know, it's probably never going to be never going to be seen. You know, all this stuff is hopefully kind of survives for like posterity.

JD Stettin: 15:37

It's interesting, just thinking about that. And I wonder if part of the reason we all listen to podcasts is also longing for connection and not being alone, alone in our heads alone in our thoughts. Right. And I don't know, when you do your when do you do your podcast listening? I guess, are you driving? Are you walking? Are you working out? All the above?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 16:00

Yeah, it would be typically definitely driving. And then if I'm walking or jogging by myself, then I might, I might listen as well. But recently, I've been trying to just, you know, not add distraction, just to kind of walk and be there. But a lot would be in the car would be a primary time. But yeah, for for me.

JD Stettin: 16:30

Yeah. And I think I mean, I wonder if part of that is it's a way to not feel alone, or feel alone in our head and with our own thoughts and our experiences and to hear someone else or usually a couple of other people talking. And there's comfort in that. I mean, right. I think the genesis of language, as far as anyone can tell, comes from mothers making sounds to their babies right across the room, you know, think kind of caveman style to let the babies know that even though they weren't in their mothers grasps that they weren't alone. And there's something about that in a different way than reading, I think hearing the human voice or again, on a podcast, often multiple human voices is very reassuring, to our nervous systems.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 17:23

Yeah. Yeah, I find that in general, like, for me, just listening to someone is, it allows my brain to work better. You know, all of a sudden, even like, if I'm in a lecture, you know, or I go to coaching workshop, right? Just when I'm there, when I'm sitting, my only job is to sit there and listen, you know, all of a sudden, like creativity bubbles up. Yeah, that's, that's one of the things that that Hawkins says, you know, in the chapter that we were planning on covering about vocational goals, that, when you're able to let go of these negative emotions, all of a sudden, creativity is like your default, right? It's not like you have to proactively generate creativity, it's when the noise disappears, then creativity bubbles up, and like the harder path to go is this letting go path, right, the letting go path is on your own, just sit there with the emotion. And let it just be and eventually it will lighten and lead you and and I'll be honest, like we've been, I mean, I've probably read this book now three times, we've been going through it in depth for six months, I still can't say that I've ever had the experience of that, letting go like pop, where you're stuck with a negative emotion. And all of a sudden, it's like, releases and you feel yourself like move up. Maybe I haven't like sat with it long, long enough. Like maybe I've had to maybe need to be sitting with it like for like 30 minutes to look for that to happen. But I admit that I haven't actually had that experience. Right. There are other ways that's one way to get out of your head. But there are other ways right and listening, if I'm listening to you talk or listening to a lecture or a podcast that does get me out of that, you know, vortex in my head andpushes my attention outside of myself, you know, so maybe that kind of frees up the plumbing so to speak.

JD Stettin: 19:43

Well, I wonder also, if, if it's possible to rather I'm gonna say it is to do the letting go process with someone else. And maybe that as as a way as a connect could weigh in to be with someone who, you know, obviously is aware of this and wants to do this work with you. But I find, I've experienced that kind of pop and release, I would say, in, in therapy doing doing just that not like problem solving around a feeling or an emotion or problem. But sitting there and really kind of playing out in words with someone who is there witnessing and holding kind of space for me, and what I feel is like a loving and genuine way. And just recognizing, oh, I've been holding on to this thing or this tension. And it's amazing how, as soon as I put it out there, and my therapist doesn't just say anything. And we're mostly doing this via zoom. Also, it's not even in person. And just that act of kind of seeing it, naming it and opening up to it, it just it, it releases, it's like it's almost like a, like a chiropractic adjustment, you know, when you get that, like neck crack, and then all of a sudden, it's just like, Ha, where did that neck pain go? Just yeah, it evaporates. And, and there. And so I wonder and maybe I needed it this way, or it's an easier pathway in but letting go via connection. And to your point, maybe some of these kind of solo isolated morning rituals in this way of being on this lone path and et cetera. Maybe that's not such a helpful model for some of us, or many of us. And maybe there's a way to really do this. In, in connection, whether it's going to a workshop or working with a coach or a guide, or a guru or just a or just a friend. To to let go of something. And I wonder just to put this out while we're recording. But if maybe I know we've been talking about as we're finishing the book, what what comes next in our podcast. And if you're listening to this, and you have suggestions, please let us know. We're open to it. But I wonder maybe this would be weird. And we could certainly try it before we release it. But if we actually tried to do it with each other, or while we're recording and to your point, instead of intellectually solipsistic Lee talking around, like, what is letting go? How does one do it? Like? Let's do it. Right. Okay. I'm having like, you know, the stories he tells he's driving down the highway, and he's having all these negative feelings about this young gun at work, who's a real jerk and doesn't appreciate anything. And then he lets it go and shows up at work. And the problem is solved. Like, yeah, show up. We have problems, or at least we manufacture problems in our heads. We both good at that. Let's, let's maybe I don't know, bring it, you know?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 22:57

That's interesting. Yeah.

JD Stettin: 23:00

A little vulnerable.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 23:04

It is interesting, because sometimes like the other person, their...Sometimes it takes someone else to help you see the folly in what you're doing. There is another idea that I want to share with you that was brought to mind by one of the rabbi sermons over the holiday. But he was mentioning Marie Kondo. You know, in the life changing, famous minimalist name is minimalist read, like the life changing Magic of Tidying Up or something like that, right? So, so she says, so her method of cleaning up is, you take all of your, we're starting with clothes, take all your clothes, throw them in the middle of your room, then pick up each one, right and feel it and ask yourself like, does this spark joy? If it does spark joy, keep it. If it doesn't spark joy, then get then get rid of it, you can donate it, you can throw it out. But just because it's the t shirt that you got from your college, spring fling or whatever, like doesn't mean you have to keep it. So I was thinking about that with regards to our actions and behaviors, you know, and there are certain things that we do, just because we think it'll bring us happiness, but it's no longer serving us. You know, so you'll maybe like I think that if I have a bowl of ice cream before bed, that would be you know that that'll be like an indulgence little cheat, you know that I'm getting it Anyway, so to speak, But is that still like serving me? Is it? Is it actually going to feel like, well, I actually feel good afterwards? How I feel about myself how I feel physically, You know, and emotional reactions, right. So I think with our families in particular, you have certain, like, emotional reactions that are just become hardwired. And the question is like, alright, is that still serving you? Is that is that idea still serving you? So I remember, you know, usually don't get into like, personal life like things, but you know, this, I'm married the second time, thank God. And there's all kinds of like scheduling difficulties that can come up, because you have, you have a schedule, but then sometimes, you know, a child wants to, maybe they want to stay because they want to their friends are having something or schedules can be thrown out of whack. And I always get very upset when like our schedules gonna be thrown out of whack as we're working with a guest a relationship coach one time, and it's like, well, Where's that coming from? And I said, Well, you know, I never got to choose where, where I was going, like, I had a schedule, and I followed the schedule. And no one like asked me, if I was if I want to go to my father and my mother, or there was any, like, there was no room for that. So in the hard wiring was to say, well, if I didn't get to choose, then why should like, you know, my kids or my stepdaughter, I get to choose their schedule. But then, but then she said, Well, how did that make you feel that you didn't get get to choose? And I said, well, not like it's not so great. Like that. Okay, well, how do you remember that that time? Not not particularly fondly? Okay, well, how do you want your kids and your stepdaughter to remember this time? And all of a sudden, it's like, Ah, I see what you I see what you did there. They're like, okay, okay, I see. You're right. Like, I do want them to feel like they had a voice, you know, in their life. Right. And so, yes, it is true that I have like this baggage, so to speak. But no, I don't actually want my kids to feel that way. And so there was like, it was kind of a lightbulb moment. And I could feel the resistance in like, lletting that go. Right. It's like no, I want to be able to be strict and I feel like I'm on a moral high ground by demanding like, rigidity to the schedule. But that was something that was like no longer serving the cause that I thought it was serving. So that was that was a lot you can respond to pick up.

JD Stettin: 28:01

Um, hmm. There was something earlier in in that story. Oh, about the spark the sparking joy and kind of taking that inventory. And I think you were saying this to some degree I just maybe this is repetition. But the idea of trying to take some inventory of not just obviously the physical possessions, although I think that's an interesting and important idea in its own right, but mental patterns and ideas like what habits of mind have sparked and continued to create moments of, of openness and centeredness and calm and connection and what maybe ideas and thought patterns don't and that doesn't mean necessarily okay, right away into the dustbin, but they're just noticed that like, Ha, like, I think I think it's a Byron Katie question where she she says, right, who am I when I believe X and what is that do and so thinking again, kind of this thread, maybe today of connection? Who am I when I believe that I am alone, on a path or alone in the world or alone on a spiritual quest?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 29:30

Yeah, right.

JD Stettin: 29:32

And, you know, and again, just just play with it, test it if it's truly a useful idea, and it sparks a lot of joy and creativity and connection. Okay, great. If it doesn't, then maybe, maybe it's something to let go of or to reshape or, or fine tune in some way to bring us more because I guess like, why why do we even care? We want to think about I don't know if your big Seinfeld guy--

Mordecai Rosenberg: 30:06

--a little bit.

JD Stettin: 30:07

--seen some. There's there's that episode where Kramer goes into the bar and they're trying to figure out if their accountant sniffing accountant I think it's episode is he's doing cocaine or not and Kramer tries to show up as like a party guy at the bar and he gets a glass of pint of beer and he goes to feeling good all the time. Just sit and that idea is like to feelin good all the time. Like is that? I mean? Is that what we're after? Is it? Is that the goal? Is it cessation of suffering for us for others? Big question, I guess I don't know. But just noticing again, what ideas what habits what patterns or practices make me feel connected? Because I think that's so much and even the language of, of God, I think there's a lot of right like feeling connected to God or one with God or part of God and feeling distant from him is like, the worst thing in I'm thinking in a Jewish spiritual Jewish framework. That somehow being cut off from God is just awful. And so just thinking about really connection as a frame, or as a point of reference does this does this spark connection, and whether that's with me and myself with me in you know, greater being me and my fellow creatures? And really using that as a guidepost or a signpost for some of these ideas or practices.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 31:45

Yeah, I told you about this little meditation retreat that I did last week, right with three other friends. One of the things that just was so striking is that deep like existential angst that I feel, or the sense of responsibility for keeping it all together, that you have to hold the entire world on my shoulders, and it's like, and it's just me. And then you talk to like, my, you know, the three friends that were there, and like, each of them mirrors pretty much like the exact same feeling. And on the one hand, it's like, oh, okay, so really, what I'm feeling is, like, kind of trite. It's like, it's just, it's pretty, like every, you know, it's like everyone, yes, like, you're, you're a male with living in a community with kids and a spouse, and you're brought up a certain way. And like, yeah, and this is just like the what's going on in your, in our heads. But there's something that's like reassuring about that, which is like, Oh, it's just that thing that we do. You know, it's like, you can imagine, I don't know, let's say, there's a Buddhist belief, I think it's Jewish also about the soul, before it comes down to earth, like, is given the choice, right to come. And even potentially, if they decide, you know, who their parents are going to be right, based on the learning that they have to do. So you could say the soul is like, up there like negotiating with God, like, Okay, I'll go down. But I don't want any of this. Like, I just want spiritual, like clarity, and enlightenment, I don't want any of this, like, frustration, existential like, you know, questions, depression, fear, and I don't want any of that stuff. It's like, okay, well, then, like, go down and--

JD Stettin: 33:56

--and don't be human!

Mordecai Rosenberg: 33:58

Yeah. Like, that's all you want to do. That's fine. But be a cloud, you know, like the be that. It's, if you want to be human, it means having all of this stuff. And he might come in coming back to to this idea that there's no, there's no destination. It's not like when you when you finally get there, it's like, we're just you can just talk around and around the hole and walk around and eventually, maybe you just slip in and fall And you realize that you've just there was no yours nowhere to run. Yeah, but how do you get that connect? You know, one thing that's been nice about this podcast is that people start you know, however many people listen to it, like you do get a deal of people who will come up to me at I don't know, at an event or a synagogue when we're around town and it was just like, Oh, I like you know, listen to your podcast. This is so interesting. Like I and all of a sudden it's spiritual seekers kind of come to the surface, And, like, bear their heads. But how do you like if you're, if you're someone who's listening and and these are things that you worry about and think about, but it's not so comfortable to just like, Hey, bring that up with friends, like, how do you find people that you can have a shared experience like that with?

JD Stettin: 35:30

Oh, I start a podcast clearly that's the answer. Huh. That's interesting, I suppose Well, I was thinking about this, because for the first time, since my since my breakup, I decided to go back on the dating apps. Watch out. I'm out there. Yeah. And it's been it's been funny. It's just been, you know, a day or so. And just thinking about what, how, how do I position myself? And yeah, and I think the more I think it's been good, it's been about two years since I've been on on the apps. But I think some of that time and space and growth and this really last relationship in particular, like really leaning into some more of my, my edge as who I am and going with, like, a very kind of vulnerable, open, honest, not like the coolest portrayal of myself. Because for that reason, I think in terms of because trying to attract the kind of people who, among other things, are gonna want to have these kinds of conversations.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 37:05

Yeah.

JD Stettin: 37:06

And the extreme example from movies that struck me when I was a kid was have you seen American History X with Edward Norton?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 37:17

Probably.

JD Stettin: 37:17

Yeah. Powerful movie about I think racism and society and personal growth. It's set in LA and maybe the 90s or the early aughts. And this, this kind of white supremacist gang leader is thrown into prison. And there's this scene where he's entering the prison workout yard and the camera pans and it's like a sea of black and Hispanic faces. And then Edward Norton does something crazy, he takes off his shirt, and you know that that's crazy, because you've seen him shirtless before. And he has an enormous swastika tattoo on his chest. And I remember the experiences moviegoer of thinking, Oh my God, he's gonna the guard, like, they're gonna let him out in the yard and he's gonna get destroyed by all these. And and that's exactly what we think's gonna happen. And then sure enough, after that, like, two second pause, just enough. You see from the corner of the prison workout yard, this Aryan Nation gang, waved him over, and gives them safe passage like their corner of the yard. Now, again, very extreme example. But the point of it or what it signaled to me at an early age was the as the saying goes, like, let your Let your freak flag fly. Like, if you're someone who really feels passionate about whatever we want to call this, finding your place, feeling connected spirituality, philosophy, whatever lead with that. A lot of people might not be into it, you might walk into a room or a party and like, yeah, most people or many people at a party aren't gonna want to talk about that. And that's okay. Doesn't make them bad or shallow, or in any objective way. They just might not be your people are not in the mood for that kind of thing. But if that's where you want to be and how you like to find meaning, or what you're looking to engage in, just lead with that.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 39:21

Yeah. And you'd be surprised, I guess, not everyone, but the more I've leaned in to those parts of myself, the more I found that oh, yeah, there actually are other people who genuinely really get excited about this. Yeah. I'd say just to be clear, we're not encouraging people that put swastikas

JD Stettin: 39:43

Yes, nothing.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 39:44

Yeah, no, nothing about that. Yeah. So don't let that freak fly. That one can go on. Yeah, that's, yeah. You know, I've heard the saying that it's something to the extent of like, sshow me a person's calendar, and I'll tell you their priorities, or also like, show me someone's budget, you know, or their expense or their credit card bill, you know, or your bank statement? And I'll tell you their should tell you their priorities. I think you could also say, like, show me someone's conversations, right at a let's say, at a party or friends. Right. And I'll and I'll tell you their priorities, you know, it's, it's there are more people who are, look, first of all, it would be arrogant to say that, like, people who are interested in this sort of thing are like, there's their superior. Like, it's, frankly, like, there's lots of people who can be very happy without without it. And that's that, that's great, right. But if it is something that's, that's interesting to you, and if you're listening to this podcast, probably is, it's okay to just kind of start bringing up certain things, right. It's like, it's like, you know, and maybe just the parts for a minute vulnerability, but it's like, you know, when I find that, whenever you're willing to share, are you willing to share like, gosh, you know, I'm really just been struggling with my like, temper lately, you know, it's like, then all of a sudden, it gives them permission. Some of the others have permission to share all sorts like, oh, my gosh, I totally get what you're, you're saying? Yeah, but just Yes, it does start by opening up just sharing something. I don't know what's on your mind. What's actually on your mind? You know?

JD Stettin: 41:48

Yeah, I have a beautiful phrase that I think heard attributed to Simone, while the author and intellectual from I don't, I guess, the 30s, maybe in Europe, she said, the kindest thing to ask a friend or another is, is what are you going through? And I learned that I read this novel, whose name I forget that it's called, What are you? What are you going through? And that's where I learned about this quote. And the idea is that, I don't know at least in I think our culture, when we say like, Hey, how are you? It's usually not, how are you feels like a question. With the built in response of good, great, fine, how were you rather than actually kind of exploratory? And giving a negative response to how are you feels usually not really available. But asking someone what their what they're going through, or I think, to your point, even stronger, leading, excuse me with what you're going through, is a really great way to get there. And as we were saying earlier, so much of the time when we're going through something difficult. One of the most healing things is connection. And so to be able to offer that to someone else, or to ourselves. And I feel like there's a way every time well, not every time because I suppose sometimes it's true. But often when someone says how are you? I'm like, Oh, good, how are you? I'm like I'm perpetrating this, this thing, instead of actually saying, Well, you know, actually, at the moment, I'm kind of feeling a little crappy. I've just been had this anxious energy all morning. And there's nothing really wrong, but I'm just everything feels a little off today. Yeah. What a refreshing thing to hear in a way that I think it feels permissive. Because if I asked you that, and that's the answer you give me then I'd be like, Oh, wow, shit. That sounds tough. And I'm actually also it's been a weird couple of days. You're struggling with whatever.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 43:57

Yeah, but I guess it's context, right? Because I can also hear someone saying, like, like, I didn't actually care.

JD Stettin: 44:02

I wasn't actually asking.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 44:05

Asking, I'm just being polite, yeah.

JD Stettin: 44:07

Which is fair. And if that's true, then like, good to know. And also, maybe don't ask, you know, if you're not if you're not asking, don't ask.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 44:17

Right. Right. But I feel like you can when as you start to have these kinds of conversations, to me, I start like, you start to get a sense. There might be some kind of a word that someone uses. And you know, they'll they'll talk about, I don't know some language about like, I don't know being present or just connection or I don't know what it is but you like you'll pick up on on these like, keywords. And I'll say like, wait a second, like what you said, if I can ask you like, do you have like, like, what's your spritual practice if you have like a meditation practice, practice and like, and sometimes like from a call that's just about, I don't know, commercial real estate, it'd be like, oh, yeah, like you're like, you know, I mean, I have a good friend who's become a good friend because I like, started asking him, he's like, Yeah, been 20 years sober, and it's gonna become through AAA and, and now it's very, very active and healthy, like other alcoholics. And it's like, you just start to pick up on things. And I feel like when you when you do, if you don't just, you can, I guess probably would be the wrong word, but just tap gently, you know, you've got something to get to, if there's anything there.

JD Stettin: 45:43

Yeah, yeah. And also to, you know, take take the risk sometimes, of putting it out there, yourself. And again, not everyone's to your point, not everyone's going to take you up. And and some people might say, I wasn't really asking, you are just like, Oh, okay. And that, you know, that's okay. That's okay. But, but being vulnerable in that way and being open. And, and making that kind of connection possible. Yeah, for people and I sometimes thinking about and sometimes that at parties or whatever, I wonder like, why isn't the conversation, you know, deeper, more meaningful or going in there? And then I wonder, like, well, that I really take any risks, was I really vulnerable? Did I open up about something that's sitting or was I waiting to see if someone else would do it so that I would know it was safe, so that I could then and it's mostly the ladder, that and it's kind of, I have this friend who I've mentioned, Joey, who he's so wonderful, you bring this guy anywhere, any context, any anything, and it turns into some kind of, and it's not necessarily spiritual, but if it turns into an authentic, emotionally, real conversation gathering get together, because he's someone who I think really like leads fearlessly from his own foibles, and troubles and heartaches. And he's so ready to show up with that and bring it to company. And again, not everyone wants to hear it. It's not always the thing. And it does, you know, conversations move in different ways. But I have been surprised at how many otherwise what I would consider maybe somewhat boring or surface level or small talky events get really deep really quickly, because one person shows up and is really willing to lead with that vulnerability. And that is such an amazing platform for connection, I think, I think it lets us know that in a way, we're in the presence of someone who was probably not going to judge us if they're offering up their own. And not at not a humble brag, not a Oh, that time that I failed opening my first company. So then I opened my second company, which is, which I really like is very common in our culture. I went to a dinner party, pre COVID. Some friends and I and Austin, were trying to arrange these monthly kind of connected dinners and topics and themes. And this one, the theme was failure. And people were encouraged to kind of share story of a failure on the table in the first few stories that went around really worthies kind of like, well, I failed at this, but then I really found someone better to date or again, I failed at work, I got kicked out, you know, I got fired for taking this risk, but then started a firm and I was sort of like, this doesn't feel this doesn't feel right, this isn't this isn't failure. I'm like, let's, and I volunteered a story that to me, was really deep and intimate and personal and felt like a failure. And in the interest of time, I won't tell the whole thing. But long story short, my brother and I have had a very close relationship since he was probably I don't know, 11,12,13 or something. And you know, at some point, we worked together at Greystone, and we moved together to Chicago and then to Dallas, and we traveled together and we did all this shit. And at some point, that ended up causing a rift and a split in the relationship. And there's no like sugarcoating it or ahh and then we learned and we're really different people. I mean, that's all true. And also, there's a part of it really feels like Man, we tried to do too much too fast together. And that was just really sad and painful for this relationship that for, you know, 10, 12 years had been so Close to all of a sudden,just not not be there. And yeah, no happy ending. That's and that sharing that story story, excuse me completely changed the nature of the next hour and a half of that dinner and of that party and it became much less about tumble brags and much more people opening up. And like people crying, which again, I think in this context was a good thing. And sort of in the spirit of it, but anyway, yeah, I think leading, leading with that with the vulnerability with that heart is such a powerful way to connect with others and to foster that connection back.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 50:43

Yeah. I love that. So yes, I have the courage to to tap right just to knock to share of ourselves. Yeah, in an open way. Not in a woe is me. It doesn't have to be a woe is me kind of thing. But it's just like, yeah, just go to the sink when we give us like to give advice. So I, I like it. Well, you once again, JD, I'm appreciative of having our weekly like to connect with podcast againhope and hope, hope that that allows others to get to do the same to connect either through this podcast through talking to others and to, you know, to open up more genuine relationships between friends families...

JD Stettin: 51:30

Yeah, amen to that. And if all else fails, you know, go out, go out and feed the birds. There's there's a there's a connection and a relationship to be had there too.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 51:38

Yeah. Watch out for the woodpeckers.

JD Stettin: 51:43

Yeah, the woodpeckers and the Blue Jays those are some serious birds.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 51:47

Yeah, there's an alpha. Alright, JD.

JD Stettin: 51:55

Until next time, take care.