Episode 29 - Intro to a Course in Miracles — Why You Should NOT Believe What You See

SUMMARY:
On this episode, Mordecai and JD begin their journey through A Course in Miracles and discuss why you should not believe everything you see.

TIMESTAMPS: 
0:00 - How would you describe A Course In Miracles?

8:06 - What does “nothing means anything” mean?

12:38 - When you’re in problem solving mode, everything is a way to help or get in our way

19:07 - When you’re communicating with someone who is upset, you don’t have to solve it

25:15 - The importance of label making in the natural world

30:14 - Changing the meaning of our thoughts and feelings

36:42 - We are the meaning makers in our lives

40:34 - Dancing to make life a dance

Transcript

Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:00

I'm JD, my partner in spiritual crime. Here we are again.

JD Stettin: 0:10

Today, we are one book further along our journey we have let go of letting go.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:18

Yeah, yeah, for now, for now. So, so what we what we're going to try to do is we're going to get you and I both been through A Course in Miracles, you're you're going through it and this is, gosh, how would you describe A Course in Miracles? Go?

JD Stettin: 0:49

Well, it's a really good thing we have a, we have a script and we rehearse because I am fully prepared to answer Yeah. Well, I, my experience of it was, I got it based on I think your recommendation and had as these things do somehow, like, once you hear about it somewhere, then you start noticing it in other places, and you had spoken highly of it. And somehow it came up in my life again. And I was like, Okay, perfect. And I grab it. And the first like, 60% of the book, I'm like, what I don't I this is not what I did long. And when and then I was like, oh, okay, the workbook that like skipping to so I don't know what 60% of it is, but the the workbook part that I've on Monday, 70, or something of that we're starting with here, it's sort of a daily meditation or guided thought, and that you're supposed to, you're meant to engage with in different ways in different times throughout the day. And there's one for I think, every day of the year, and it's a you know, a year of going through these changing guided thoughts and meditations. The nature of the meditations are different, sometimes you're instructed to do very short, voluminous practice periods throughout the day, sometimes, you're meant to do one or two, you know, longer 10 to 15 minute kind of contemplations, and then there are review sessions. But that's the bones of it, the structure, the kind of program that that were engaged in. And I'll flip the question back to you in terms of that's the structure, what would you say, you know, what fills out the bones? What's the flesh and the viscera of this program, to you?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 2:40

Well, you know, I had a thought that, you know, that me, there's been all this talk about science over the last few years, like trust the science, like what's the science, right? I realized that science the thing you can't trust, the science, there's no facts. In science, it's all based on, a way of approaching the world. Right? And it's all testing. You have a hypothesis, you test, you look for evidence, you come up with a theory, right? And that's kind of the best way that you have to understand the current situation based on your knowledge at that point. Can the whole thing be turned upside down, the next day? Like, yes, right? If you're a scientist, like you need it's, there's an openness, right? And it's, it just kind of takes you to the, you know, to the next step of testing something else. You know, spirituality I think, also, I realized is like, we treat it as a thing. We we treat it as a destination. For really, it's, it's not. It's also a way of approaching life. If there's no great spiritual teacher that will say, if you say, all right, have you like, have you made it? If you're, I feel like no, if not, there's no point there's no destination to it. If they still say yeah, I'm still very imperfect being it's a lot to work on. And every day, I try to wake up a little more. So spirituality also. It's just to go off on a tangent like, it's like in the story of creation, when when Adam takes from the tree of knowledge, of knowledge of good and bad, right? And God was like, well, oh, shoot, we have the tree of knowledge and, we have the tree of life. And now what's going to prevent man from reaching from the tree of life and then he's going to live forever. So but the language is it says, like, maybe man will now help help stretch out his hand and grab from the fruit and put it to his mouth and take a bite, right, and then he'll, you know, then he will live with forever and who could stop them? So but what is just says just maybe he'll eat from the tree doesn't have to go into the whole steps of maybe he'll extend his hand and take, right. But the point is that there's a problem with with thinking that you can just grab something, and then it's it's yours, right? The way things evolved is, the way the world works is that it's a process, and it's evolution, right? It can take it takes lifetimes to achieve. Sometimes you don't achieve things in that lifetime. So the way I would frame A Course in Miracles is that it's a path. And it's a step by step guide that is gently nudging you to wake up a little by little, and to become more and more aware of the programming in your own head, but also, recognizing the Divinity inside of it. Well, I think, the Course in Miracles is divinely inspired. I mean, the way the author talks is that, these words just started coming to her, I think it was that maybe a couple that wrote it, but it the words just came,and they meant it. Now, it's kind of in some ways, I feel like the Bible of a lot of spiritual practitioners, even though people don't really talk about it so much. When you hear about when you, you'll start to notice it come up in conversation, what we thought that we would do, you know, in the podcast is not to go through the day by day 365 but there are other podcasts that go through that, there's other commentaries, there's different things, but we could talk about conceptually use it as kind of as an anchor, as a jumping point for conversation about these concepts, kind of like we're just letting go is not a book study per se, as much as a jumping point for talking about different emotions. You have the first concept, which which is incorporates, like, the first three days is, has to do with, you know, it talks about that, that nothing I see means anything. That anything that we see, well, we'll get into it, right? That we've given everything, we see all the meaning that it has for us. And we don't understand anything that we see. And their practices about looking at a chair and saying, like, you know, I don't like this chair, it doesn't mean anything, right? Or this computer doesn't mean anything or that person doesn't mean anything. So if it seems to start talking about to become aware of the stories that we tell ourselves about this, but you know, what comes to mind, like when you when you think about this idea that everything that we see, like doesn't have any inherent meaning. I think there's I don't know I mean, coming from a Jewish background, like I feel like kind of taught that like no, everything has meaning everything is special everything is right but what is what does that mean to you this idea that nothing has inherent meaning read everything, we don't really understand anything.

JD Stettin: 8:06

It's kind of a cool and just like to help with the overview, this concept maybe for listeners. So, to Marty's point, the first like three, four or five days are all along this theme. So day one is nothing I see means anything day two is I've given what I see all the meaning it has for me, three is I do not understand anything I see for these thoughts do not mean anything. So it really like at first blush, it almost hit me as like destabilizing as like whoa, like what nothing is not what are we what are we saying here? The challenging all of my notions of of reality and like letting that settle or singing into my system? And it's funny, you know, you mentioned kind of the the Orthodox Jewish background we had it almost makes that even clearer the life I lead now looking back at the things I grew up with, I'm like, yeah, those things were meaningful of a lemon doesn't actually cost $130 It's only because you know, you gave this particular lemon the whatever significant meaning that in just one one fun, silly example, but really appreciating that. Oh, yeah, that's right. Like, what does what why is anything what it is and it's because it has some significance to me it has a another way of saying that almost a friend of mine, I don't know if he coined this phrase or uses it but there there are really no concepts without context. And everything is a context. It also reminds me of an exercise my brother's consulting agency does to start some kind of creative dialogue sometimes internally or with clients which is everyone goes around the room and you pick something an everyday object, and you have to ascribe to it a function or a meaning that's totally novel, like, I don't know, that you would look at this, it's a mug, this isn't a mug, this is a very deep swimming pool for adults. And, and the idea is just to really break some of the habitual chains and contexts and ways in which we see the world and really to recognize it and get very similar notion that we're the ones who give whatever it is significance and meaning. That's, culturally, that's family wise, that's individually that species wise, and it feels like a, really deep spiritual cut to kind of notice just how contextual everything is. And it's not to suggest that there isn't a reality we can really not hallucinating and seeing this object, but you're the one who's ascribing the meaning that this is, you know, a clay mug.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 11:12

Yeah, I think what you start to realize is that everything you see, you're approaching with, with a whole history and narrative in your mind, right, based on how you've experienced it in the past. You know, it could be a particular kind of car, right, that you see and then you're like, 'Oh, well, you know, that, you know, I remember, you know, when I was a kid, I really wanted to have that kind of that kind of a car, like I had a poster on my wall and that kind of car', right? And then you think, wow, like that, you know, how amazing what that car is now, if only I had that car, I would be this kind of, you know, I would feel this kind of way. Right? But really like, what is it? It's there's metal, you know, there's rubber, you know, there's machinery in it. Right? But it's, there's a story, right? Even even color, right? We would say that? Okay, well, that card is red? Is it red? Or is it white? There's no such thing as color. It's just how our brains digest and process, you know, the light rays that are bouncing off of it? Interestingly, your example like the mug of giving the meaning, too it, have you ever had this experience? Like, let's say, your your table is off kilter, right, like there's, you know, it's kind of rocking. I say, I gotta find something to put under one of the legs to even it out, right? And all of a sudden, you're looking around, alright, what can I use? Like, what can I use? Right? And all of a sudden, things have a totally different meaning. Right? So the stack of magazines, is now not, you're not thinking about them as a stack of magazines, you're thinking about them as like, Oh, I could watch that. Or it's, you know, the coasters, you know, for that you have like, oh, maybe I could stack those and bake. But now everything, the meaning that you're looking for his now just based on the function I guess, that's the, your point about there are no concepts without context, right. Now, the context is, how do I how do I stabilize this table? It starts with looking at objects that way, and saying like this, apple doesn't mean anything. You know, that's, I think, a gentle way to start it. Because where you can go from there is, is you're talking about people, right? It's like when you talk about, and notice that when you see someone how quickly your brain comes to a conclusion about that, right? And it tells you a story about maybe what their background is, or it's judging them about something or it's, you know, it could be thinking about your parents, like, when you're not seeing them exactly how they are today, right? You're seeing that whole history, there's the whole the whole narrative that comes with it. And I guess the goal of this is to get to a point where you can be totally present in the world, which means that you're seeing things exactly as they are, which is nothing. Right? There's not you know, you have to get to the point where if I'm looking at the tree and seeing a tree, not, I mean, like I'm not there, so it's hard. So all this stuff is like theoretical, for me. Sure. Right. But you know what even to say, like, wow, what a beautiful tree. It's like, yeah, but now I'm like, intellectualizing it and I'm thinking you know, amazing how the colors that come in the fall and memories that I have in the fall, but just to be to get away from that and just see something as it is. That's more challenging.

JD Stettin: 14:36

Yeah, I it it is interesting, because again, taking kind of literally into its fullest extent, like I said earlier, it almost feels destabilizing, like wait, so it's not it's not a tree like what am I? What is this? This isn't a what what do I make of it? But yeah, it's a reminder I think like you said the magazine and the tilty table feel like such a great a example and reminder that when we're looking for things when we're in problem solving mode or need fulfilling mode, everything is a is a way to, to help or to get in our way. And I think it's such a great mirror to how judgmental and discerning we can be, it's, and I don't I don't remember if I shared this with you, but at one point when I was like, briefly, in my equity side of the commercial real estate business, you know, raising equity, funding deals, something that I initially, very briefly liked about it, and then very quickly didn't like was the way in which almost anybody then can be a client. And like, an extreme version of that, I think isn't like multilevel marketing, if you've ever come across any of those businesses, if you will. And at first I was like, this is amazing. Like, anyone who has any savings like could possibly be an investor. This is so cool. The world is like brimming with investors ,with clients, this is wonderful. And then very, very quickly, a matter of weeks, I realized the tyranny of that, is you stopped seeing people and you just start seeing clients. And, again, that's a very extreme example of like, what particular shape and focus glasses and blinders will do but feels true of our experience in general, like you're saying an apple isn't an apple? Well, sure as heck is an apple when you're hungry and looking rooting around for snacks in your, in your fridge. What is an apple tree during the year where let's say like this year, in parts of the Northeast, there was like a late spring or an early, yeah, I guess it was a early mid spring frost that killed the buds. So they never fruited like, so is it still an apple tree? Well, if you're hungry, no, because it didn't make any apples this year. So effectively, it's not. And just really seeing how in so many ways, in my mind and life, I'm just seeing things based on my perceived like use case for them. And my mind is constantly coming up with use cases that is constantly looking to solve problems, find problems, fix problems, avoid problems, you know, and that mindset really does label and grade things in, in a particular way. I mean, this mug is a mug, but also when we had a dinner party the other week, and didn't realize we didn't have enough, like dishes, plates, etc., this was also a bowl. Again, these are like kind of silly, easy examples. But it really like hanging out with these ideas for a few days in a row and part of this practice is you repeat this to yourself. And then you also spend like a couple of minutes at a time, like looking around your room, noticing things and saying like, this printer is not a printer, you know, this person is not my brother, you know, what are not apart, whatever it is. And, it really does feel like such a deep practice and just a mirror held up to myself and to my mind of like, yeah, you're just labeling things based on what they mean to you in any given moment or situation. And that's such a shallow, thin layer.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 18:47

Yeah, it you know, thinking about the letting go concepts also, you know, where, when talking about interrelationship with others, thinking about the number of ties, you know, I sense that my wife is upset. So, what does that mean? Well, immediately, I start to worry about like, Well, did I do something? Right? That, you know, it's just about me, or is it right? So but there's but there's a story, which is like, you know, is it something that I did, right? And then there's the story of like, well, I need to fix this, make it like not because I don't you know, I don't want her to be upset, right? Makes me like, uncomfortable, right? So like, I have to fix that. Right? And what you learn when you focus on the communication skills is that you don't have when you're communicating with someone who is upset, you don't have to solve they're upset, lots of times you can't solve they're upset. But what you can do is you can just be with them. And it's you can say, you know, what do we what do we know what do we know for sure? This person has a frown on their face. Like, that's what we know, right out there, you know, you can pick it up, they're upset, right? But that's the best response. what feels best on the other side of that is to just be heard just to say like, just to be validated, right? And so like, and acknowledge, like, wow, like you're really upset, you know, and that feels, feels good. It's that that connection, like is possible when you don't tell yourself that whole narrative because otherwise, you know, you're trying to, you know, well, I was upset that, that, you know, this happened then, I thought you were gonna be someplace or whatever, I don't know, makeup, whatever, whatever store you situation you want. Where you go is like, well, I thought this where you could have done that right now becomes like, let me tell you why your story is wrong. Like, let me explain, it's a lot of these conversations now becomes about, well, that's your story. But here's my story. And here's why your story is wrong about it, and what you miss, or there's the ability to just be totally present with that with that other other person without the story. You know, and if you just saw, like, a child, like on the street who was crying, you would just go over and see, like, why you're so upset, like, what's the matter? Right, without the narrative. So, an interpersonal thing is also a bit if that that story, you really just getting away of a genuine connection or presence.

JD Stettin: 21:34

Yeah. Totally, and just seeing like, makes me think of any day for your story. I mean, these thoughts do not mean anything. And I think about that very much. And then the, I am never upset the follow up on for the reason, I think, and that kind of feels like in the emotional interpersonal realm. It's not, you know, there's the kind of fundamental increasing the daily the objects in our day to day life, but then there's the relationships and the people and the relationships we have with ourselves. And we have these complicated thoughts. And like, you were saying, like, oh, no, my wife is upset, something must be wrong. I either need to fix it or need to help her fix it or even need to be there for her. Even that's like a particular thought. And just noticing that all of those things, they're all they're all stories, some of the stories are maybe better or more helpful, or more loving or more present, but they're all stories. Who knows what's actually happening. In How Emotions Are Made, Lisa Feldman Barrett talks about she was on like a date in college. And like, had like, kind of very first date and had like, very strong feelings for this guy and like thought something was like really happening. It turns out, she actually was coming down with the flu later that night. And again, it's like the story. You're like, wow, I'm like, face is flushed, my heart is beating like, I must really like this person. It's like, you're actually sick. So just noticing that even if, like we perceive, see someone's face or hear something they say and perceive it as hurt or hurting or cutting and we're like, oh, no, and we already start going to I did something or things wrong in their day. It could just, who knows, you know, there are so many possibilities and anything that doesn't mean our thoughts are wrong. Sometimes our thoughts line up with the reality in a certain way you bite into something and like lo and behold, it isn't apple like great. I guess it is you know? But even thinking down to the language we use like an apple What the hell does that mean? A p p l e? I don't know. I mean, it's something I eat. Sometimes they're crispy. Sometimes they're mealy. Sometimes they're delicious, to me, sometimes they're not sometimes they're tart. Sometimes they're sweet. Sometimes they're like, you know, as big as a softball, and sometimes they're a golf ball. So what? And is that different from a pear? What, we are just noticing, and that doesn't mean that these distinctions are all miserable and wretched at night if we shouldn't use them, but just recognizing that they're all just, you know, a particular set of of labels that come from a label maker that we label the mind. In a way it reminds just like the Alan Watts talks where he'll be like, reality isn't whatever reality is. Bong. It's a gong right? Oh, right. And you can anytime you say anything, and then the thought is just an internal saying right? It's A thought is talking to ourselves. A part of ourselves talking are their selves. That right there? It's made up in some way. Yeah, an interpretation of a reality.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 25:16

Yeah, I guess one interesting exercise off of this would be to label make, right? And to notice, like, you know, it's like how in, I think it was in Barry Margaret's book, he talked about meditation to just notice, as things come up, just label them, right. It's like, oh, stress right? Here, right? Like, yeah, just, that's just to kind of label these feelings as they come up. And we could do that with the things that we see, right, we're looking around my office, and I see, like, book, and then notice, like, okay, I just laid like, looking out there, I just labeled that book, you know, handle, chair. Yeah, there's, you know, it's it's just noticing how quickly like your brain just labels things. Right? And you can only label, right? If you didn't not know, if you were a newborn, let's say to, even if you're a 12 or 18 month old, there's probably no difference between an apple and a pear. Right, like, parents just a funny shape apple, pretty much the same. They're the same thing. I mean, they don't taste quite the same, but they're close enough. Right. So what point did you learn that that's an apple, and that's a pear? Well, at some point, you learned that that, there's a difference. They are constructed labels that we've learned. And just to say like, oh, yeah, I've labeled that, you know, labeling that a tree? I don't know if that does anything maybe I shouldn't get in the way of the recommendation from the actual authority?

JD Stettin: 27:20

Well, no, but I think it's interesting to note, because, you know, we can't not I mean, I don't think as a human in culture, with language, you can we can walk through life and not label things, I think we can just notice the ways in which we're doing it maybe the ways we change and I think trees a great example, what's the difference between a tree and a shrub or a tree in a bush? I mean, I don't know, sometimes there's a really tall shrub and a really young, short sapling, everything is at some point, there's an arbitrary line of distinction. And I actually, I did my senior thesis and undergrad on biological taxonomy, so kind of label making for the natural world, in non-literate cultures. There's some really cool anthropological studies, in cultures that, you know, don't have writing, and how, in a lot of ways, their taxonomy of the living world, you know, maps somewhat onto science, but then departs in many others. And one of the kind of major key distinctions is that they're different, they have different goals. And science, at least nominally, and again, depends on the branch and the practitioner and whatever, but it's about sort of trying to under understand things in in their most maybe essential, fundamental, smallest granular possible way. Whereas to these non literate cultures and societies living in the bush, it was much more about practically like navigating the world. And so they would lump you know, say edible things together or toxic poisonous things together in ways that and scientists Oh, no, those are different family are different genera are different, whatever. But to them, it's like, well, this is all poisonous. This is all edible. These things are all useful. It makes sense to group them together and and what a different picture of the world you get. And I think so too, with linguistics. The other thing I spent four years studying and don't use the practically speaking, but the ways in which different grammars and cultures divide up the world, right? I think a lot of people are familiar with the example of the native peoples of the North have, you know, dozens of word for snow? Whereas for us, there's like snow and ice and sleet and slush. That's kind of it. That's all we see. That's all we've been trained to see. But you change the labels change the reason you change the meaning. Again, going back to that day four, these thoughts do not mean anything. These thoughts mean, you know, kind of an inverse of that, in a way or playing with her formulation in the book is, these thoughts mean, what we were taught to make the mean, or what our habits of mind, make them mean. And if we shift our focus, if we shift our context, if we shift our gaze or whatever, things can take on radically different meanings and shapes.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 30:58

Yeah, I think what we, and first of all, at some point, I'm gonna have to dig into your years of linguistics, and I don't even know how to how to repeat the thing that you said about biological taxonomy for non literate.

JD Stettin: 31:17

that's a mouthful. It takes four years just to say it and then yeah,

Mordecai Rosenberg: 31:20

exactly, exactly. So we see one of the traps, we think, that we fall in to on the spiritual path is that we, we try to label things spiritually. Right. And, we try to intellectualize ourselves into into spiritual labels. So let's say instead of just seeing an orange and saying, Oh, that's a snack, right? Maybe I'll like look at it and be like, Wow, look at this peel, you know, how it's like, just like that beautiful orange and underneath how, like, skins there to protect each piece. And, you know, and how amazing like God is or the universe that like, created this thing, right? But now, it's good that like, yes, on the one hand, better than being mindless about it, and recognizing the miraculous nature of things, but you've also just told yourself a story. Right? Like, now you fit it into that box of like, oh, this is a evidence of something or it's like, it's, you know, now you're back in your brain, you're not just sensing it. You know, if I, like if I'm on a roller coaster, right? And then you say afterwards, like, oh, how, like, how was that? Right? Are you gonna say, Well, yeah, I noticed that in that second turn and the second flip, the track twisted just in a certain way, and therefore like, yeah, and that made for a very interesting sensations, like, No, you just feel like, wow, that was amazing, right? There's nowhere else you can be but just experiencing that moment. And maybe that's why people like doing things like that, right? Because you're just, you're not in your your head, except for maybe thinking like, is there a camera somewhere that's going to take a picture of me? Making sure that you know, not looking too dumb? But yeah, but just being totally in the moment without getting into our heads. Like, it's, you know, me having a nature, you know, in my head, right, and you're thinking of like things like what I do, you know, and analyze and find and I also find deeper meanings in things and right so, to me the idea of saying, right, I'm just gonna look at this without any other experience of it other than just being present with this orange to me feels like sacrilege a little. It's like don't deprive me of telling my meaningful story right? And by the way, I can find meaning in anything like I'm good you know, if you if I have to like speak in public, right? It's just like Alright, give me five minutes and I'll find some way to inspire this group because because I'll find something right can you give me any section of the Bible and I'll find something to draw out from it. I definitely feel the pole of inertia from in my brain like when I'm to say that I cannot understand anything I see in this room or to say that nothing is see in this room means anything. You know, that's I guess it's like a little scary, right? Because it's like what you're saying is like if if nothing means anything, then you're kind of like unmoored. So it's, these are the first three steps. And I feel like, I don't know. I feel like it's the whole Course of Miracles. I think you can kind of go through it multiple times. I kind of thought that oh, by in 365, that I'm like, reached the up and I'll be enlightened. That'll be it. Sure. Yeah, but I reached, I did all 365. And at the end, yeah, I'm still Morty. Right, but you have to come back around to these concepts. Like you realize, like, whoa, that's actually terrifying. That for to say that, like nothing has any meaning to it. Yeah, it can be.

JD Stettin: 36:05

Yeah, totally. It definitely. And then the third one, I do not understand anything I see. Wow, like to really internalize that it feels really deep. And it does feel again, like something to keep coming back to in different ways on different days, because it can be a little overwhelming, I think, to again, have this sort of reality check of like, Oh, yeah. Then what? What does anything mean? And you know, if and if nothing means anything, then what do we all do and run around doing our crazy, crazy dances that we're doing? And, and I think it's, you know, nothing I see means anything, I think it's just such a good reminder that we are the meaning makers in our lives. You know, right, Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, I mean, he and some others were able to find, like deep meaning and fulfillment in the Nazi concentration camps. Yeah. So, you know, again, I don't think he or anyone else would have ever chosen that, if they were given a list doesn't sound like would have would have opted to go there on vacation for five years. But at the same time, you know, this kind of scary and empowering reminder that we make meaning because then again, I think maybe one of the ways in which this concept is sometimes tricky for me is, you know, contrasting it with Viktor Frankl found meaning in a concentration camp, I find suffering in the wonderful life that I have. So it's not like oh, man, a you got lucky, I'm lucky. It's like, well, I'm, there's something wrong with me. I'm ruining my perfectly good life. So. And I don't think that's the intent, or necessarily a healthier, helpful interpretation. But I do think it gets to an interesting intersection of sort of responsibility and acceptance, because, if I have given what I see all the meaning it has for me, then am I responsible for all of my suffering? Probably. And then so am I the schmuck you know, who like, needs to do something about that, and again, in a way that's really empowering, like, Oh, I did the suffering, I can fix it, I can change it. On the other hand, it also feels a little damning of like, but this is how my mean, but this is how my mind works. This is how I see that this is a mug that is an apple that is a tree that's like, how can I undo and unsee? And I think but that that is an interesting, like, tension and paradox to hold of like, oh, yeah, all these mental concepts that I have are doing this and at the same time, I don't know and kind of listening to a lot of Michael Singer over the last couple of months and a lot of the talk of like, some scars and these traumas, and triggers that we carry. Yes, they're ours, and yes, in a way our systems formed up and made them for us, but also we didn't like do that quite consciously or on purpose, right? Like I don't know when I feel comfortable sharing this because I think you've shared it on the podcast before but like with misophonia, for you, like, I mean, yeah, technically that's your problem, right? It's your mind that creates suffering for you when other people eat or chew in a particular way around you. But like, you didn't choose that you didn't wake up as a kid, and you're like, today, I want to have misophonia. And so, yes, you're sort of the author of your own suffering, but you're also not completely consciously at the helm.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 40:27

Right? Yeah, no, I think that's right. Look, I guess it's a balance and you can't go any faster than then then you go. So you know, we're trying to take this accelerated course. You know, I finished college in two and a half years, like, I had to really get, you know, I, I really start. Yeah, but I started late, like, 21 When I started, because I had to, you know, I thought that if I stayed in Israel and learn Judaic Studies for three and half years, then the story I told was that would be like, really different.

JD Stettin: 41:14

Just like if you finished all 365 days of this book?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 41:18

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Where I'm looking at, like, 42 volumes of the Talmud that I went through over the course of four and a half years, because I thought I did that. So like, I think those feelings. Yeah, I mean, but what is it the fact that even with misophonia, right, so I would get, you know, I mean, rage was like the feeling that would come up, like when, you know, when I was a kid and and eating at the table, but the story that came up for me was that oh, therefore an an a$$hole because like, what normal person gets, you know, gets enraged at their family, because they're eating cereal and milk. I mean, cereal and milk, probably not a lot of people get upset.

JD Stettin: 42:11

Yeah, pancakes, please. Yeah,

Mordecai Rosenberg: 42:17

We put that but that's that story. Right. So we can still, you know, our anger and our feelings via death. Yeah, that gets back to the letting go, which is just alright. I'm feeling upset. Okay, can you just feel upset? Do you have to tell a story about that? You know, so, it's, the balance. It's a balance. One thing that I would say doesn't have any thinking about what are the some of the some things that like, really don't have any meaning? Maybe we'll close with this to plan. But I would say like, dancing. Right? Like dancing, like what's the meat you know, if you're, you know, go to a club or you're dancing, right, like, here's the answer, you just hear your gift music like there's no meaning to that. Right? You're not you know, it's it's just we're the other one would be like play you know, especially with the watch kids like play you know, they're you know, with whatever they're doing maybe they're building a fort and they're building right but there's no meaning to it. They're just totally present you know, and maybe like part of like, what the goal is like, I think probably the goal is to kind of like your dance to make life a dance because a song in Wicked dancing. If you're can just be a dance that feels like that'd be a nice place to be but we you know, but like dancing we just take it you know we take it step by step. Closing thoughts.

JD Stettin: 43:57

Try to be open to enjoying the process the the dance the steps the the whatever and I think yeah, this idea of, okay close closing thought about thoughts that don't mean anything is something I've just caught myself catching lately, is that felt very familiar related and you talked about you know, your extra time in Israel and going through the Talmud and reading this book and like doing all these things, and constantly hoping to be somewhere else that apparently just not at yet. That too, is a thought; the thought that you're somehow not where you're supposed to be or that there's something somehow lesser or wrong with you or something that could be better or you somehow should be and I say this to myself as much as I'm saying it, you know, response to you but reminding myself like, oh, that too is a thought. The thought that like can you talk about the noise so hopefully you and our listeners don't hear but my table is shakeing from the jackhammer, outside my window that starts at 7am, every weekday and this has been going on for more or less two months. And, you know, I catch myself sometimes like waking up and being, like, just really frustrated or angry or annoyed, and I'm a noise sensitive person. And this like, feels deeply unpleasant in a way. And then of course, like, Well, why am I annoyed? And what's so shitty and shallow and petty of me and no one's doing it to me, and and then just being like, okay, and like, so yeah, so what if I do get annoyed some days? What if I do get frustrated? Why is that a problem? Why is that bad? Why is that something to be changed or, or overcome any of it. So, just, again, trying to really apply these teachings from the early part of the book evenly to spread these teachings evenly over the course of my experience in apple isn't an apple and the thought that I somehow need to be a better quote unquote, person. That's also not a real thought.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 46:06

Yeah. How could you be?

JD Stettin: 46:08

Right? Yeah. And, and truly like, Michael Singer likes to remind us, it took the world 13 and a half billion years to get to exactly where it is. So like, I don't know, the fact that I just tripped down some stairs or did something silly or again, I'm looking at myself going, Oh, why am I this way? It's like, man, the answer to that is 13 and a half billion years law. Right. So right, my, my sweet little mind isn't about to like, unwind all that.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 46:37

Yeah. All right. Well, we'll take out our label makers this week and label everything we see and be aware of it.

JD Stettin: 46:45

That's right.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 46:48

We'll, continue on the course.

JD Stettin: 46:52

Indeed. Yeah. Just remember, you don't understand anything you see a you've made it all up and nothing means anything. So have fun with that.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 47:05

All right. Until next time,

JD Stettin: 47:07

thanks. Until next time, bye.