Episode 30: We Are Not Upset for the Reason We Think

SUMMARY:
Mordecai and JD explore week #2 of A Course in Miracles and discuss the reasons why we often think we are upset.

TIMESTAMPS:
0:04 - You can’t lose what you never had
3:19 - Why do we do anything? Why do we feel good?
6:07 - Start with the premise that whatever you’re thinking is not the real thought and see how that unfolds
10:55 - Sometimes I find that frustrating or maddening and other times it gets a bit gentler and in rereading these chapters
15:29 - You have what you get and what you can never lose
21:45 - What is it about experiences that stay with us more than others?
25:49 - How to deal with the slippery slope of expectations
30:38 - You can’t hold on to the present

Transcript

Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:04

JD Here we are for the next episode of perplexity. That's a delight to be here again with you.

JD Stettin: 0:15

Oh, thanks. Likewise, likewise, this is always a very fun, rich time of, of the week for me. Yeah. So we were talking before we hit record. And one of the things that you said, it ties into some of the ideas that we might have maybe we'll talk about in the Course in Miracles this week. So you said that you can't lose what you never had. Right? That, you know, in? Yeah, and you were you were talking about a relationship that you had, and you know, that you've, like, mourn the loss of that relationship. But then you've also thought about, like, well, maybe, like, did I actually have a relationship that that was valuable, or maybe it was, I mean, it was valuable, but it was, maybe what you think you've lost, you'd never actually had, we can in the lesson five enforcing miracles. So there's, so this is kind of the next stage, I also, I like the way that we're doing this, because when you going when I when I've done it in the past, I've done it day by day, it's sometimes you like you missed, build, you know, and here you go chucking it up and talking about this thematically, there are, you can see the built select. So last week, we talked about how the things that we see nothing that we see really means what it is right that we see a think you see a chair, but that's because there's a story that you've experienced in your path. Right now, it talks more about about thoughts, and feelings. And so it says like, I'm never upset for a reason, I think. Or you're upset because you see something that's not there, then idea that we only see our past. But I want to talk about this idea of that our thoughts being illusions, right, and maybe like this idea that that we can't lose, we can't lose that we never had. The other side of it just to float there is you know, you were talking about a couple of concerts that you had been to, right? And if you say like, Alright, when you hear music, you went to you, you had this experience of going to a concert? Do you have anything? Right? Is there anything you actually have? Right, and yet, what I have, like I can't not holding on to the music, there's nothing there, or you don't take anything with you, maybe you got a t shirt or something. And yet, those are the things that feel like most substantial in terms of what you you know, what you take with you. So maybe you can just like, you know, we'll see where the conversation goes. But first, this, this idea of like that, some of the things that we thought that that we that we think we lose, we never had, and the idea that maybe some of the things that we never have, we can't we can't lose Yeah, I really hits and feels so much a part of this work in A Course in Miracles and just kind of playing with that playing with what what our sense or notions of reality are and how maybe immutable or plastic they are in a way and how how they can change and and be changed and how you know the physical things maybe don't mean what they think we do in some of the more ethereal things thoughts, concepts, emotions. May be very powerful, but also not for the reasons we think or expect or, or understand I really love that lesson five, I have never upset for the reason I think and it kind of reminds me of maybe the flip side of of I think it's Aristotle's concept of Eudaimonia of why do we do anything and it's ultimately to feel good and you kind of take any example like okay, why did you work out this morning? Well I you know wanted to look good and get my blood pumping say why do you want to look good? Well because I think this is important and ultimately you want to feel okay inside and and so too I think that I'm never upset for the reason I think I don't know thinking about something that upset me something at work right a deal a deal falling through a lender calling to retrain on a deal let's say and I get upset and I can feel that okay, why am I upset because the Do not retreated, do I actually care? Like, well, I wanted to make money or I wanted to keep my promise to this client or be helpful or be thought of as beneficial and, okay, well, why do I want to be helpful and keep my promise to this client and beneficial? Well, I think that's part of what goes into being a good businessman or a man of my word, or being skilled or being successful. Okay, why is that? You know, and so on and so on. And it's really kind of wild to just keep peeling back that layer of things that upset us. And and is that is like, Is that is that proximal cause? Is that really what upset me is that the driver, you know, Michael singer likes to talk about the driver in front of me who's driving five miles below the speed limit. And I'm really upset because my 15 minute trip is going to take 16 and a half minutes. Yeah, and kind of work. Work from there. And I really love the exercises about going through, I am not worried about, you know, fill in the blank. fifth reason I think I have not, and it doesn't. And I like her structure. She's not telling you why. She's not saying, Oh, you think this is actually that she's saying, just start with the premise that whatever you're thinking is not the real thought. And like, see how that unfolds for you. And then we can each kind of have a choose your own adventure. Right, as we go through this.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 6:28

Right. You know, there's great, so let's say your example of someone that you're talking to a bank and they retreated you, right, so like, what will Why are you upset? Well, because you have this idea that, that people should do what they say they're good, but what they what they say they're gonna do. Right. So all right, well, that's something that you learned in your path, right? Someone you know that that was somehow you absorb that as a value that people should do what they say they're going to do. However, what you see is all around you, is people not doing what they say they're gonna do. Right? Like, if you said, Okay, let's say like, just we look at humans, one of the things that that makes humans unique, is that they don't do what they say they're trying to do. Right? Like, it's like a an animal like a dog like the always act predictably. You know, like, when like our dog, every day, when when the mailman comes or anyone comes to the door? There's the you know, the dog is there barking? Yeah. And it just, it will keep on doing it. It sees a dog in the window, it'll bark at it. If your dog isn't so well trained, and maybe dogs. Yeah, or shouldn't be sitting on the couch looking out the window. Right? Well, you know, yeah, but it's like, that's like, that's what keeps it that's what humans do. We say we're gonna do something and then we don't don't write. It's, it's a value, because it's actually like, kind of unique when people are, it's like when you're saying he's a man of his word. It's not saying like, you don't you don't say a eulogy, where you say that suppose a man of their word, that's good. That's it? Wow, that's amazing. If they were a man of their word, or even say, you don't say they like, it was a man who breathed. But this is the narrative that that we tell ourselves. And then we get upset when people can't hear when they're when they're acting. Contrary to how we decided they're, they're supposed to act right, based on everything that we brought in. So So yeah, so what, what, why we're upset. It's not for the reason that we think it's because we believe in an illusion, we have we bring our past to it, our mind is preoccupied with with past thoughts, right? And if you see like, are we seeing, are you seeing this situation as it is now? Or are you seeing this just as some, you know, house of mirrors with some like illusionary perspective from from your past? Right, you're, you're, you're never upset because of the of the reality that that's right in front of you. In fact, like, if you're thinking about it, almost by definition. It's not happening, right. It's thought if you're thinking about it must be something that's either in the past or in the future, because one of the things that they say is that the mind doesn't even operate. The mind doesn't exist in the present. Yeah, so what mean, what do you think about that? Does that mean that was a little bit tougher for me to to wrap my head around, but this idea that the mind only exists in the past or projecting on to the future, but never in the present? Yeah, it feels it feels like

JD Stettin: 10:00

Part of the difficult, or I guess that's my opinion, but the paradox of, of having a prefrontal cortex and being a human on this earth is that, and so much of I think mindfulness and spirituality feels like centered on the present and trying to let go of past and future and be more present. Which is in a lot of ways, like kind of impossible. as certainly as it involves being in, in our mind, you can't be in your mind and be be present, really, to your point, your mind is processing, what just happened and projecting what is going to happen. So, you know, whatever the present the knife edge somewhere between or with those two things. And sometimes I find that really, like frustrating or maddening or confusing, and other times, it gets a bit gentler. And in kind of rereading these chapters thinking about these, I'm upset because I see something's not that is not there, I see only the past.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 11:17

In a way, I don't feel like it's,

JD Stettin: 11:20

again, the gentler understanding that I have is, it's not telling me like, you're doing it all wrong, you can't that's not you have to be in the present. And that somehow is impossible or feels like backed into a corner that I can't access. But more recognizing, or empowering me to notice that

Mordecai Rosenberg: 11:40

when I am upset

JD Stettin: 11:44

that a way of being with that mollifying that is to recognize that it's not what I think it is, it's not as bad as all that. It's, it's and

Mordecai Rosenberg: 12:02

again, it doesn't

JD Stettin: 12:04

necessarily like catapult me into the present magically, somehow, and I'm like, Aha, I see only the past. There we go. Now I'm free. And I'm in this moment. But if I'm feeling upset about something, you know, again, a work example, I'm feeling really upset that this lender after, you know, a month just emailed or called and said, well, actually, we don't really want to do construction right now. And it's kind of like, you knew this a month ago, why it took so long, you've wasted time, you've wasted money, you've burned trust, and thinking, Okay, in this moment, and thinking again, maybe back to like, comparing or contrasting in some way with with animals. In this moment, am I actually in any way physically unsafe? And like asking that question, you're like, No, actually, yeah, I'm totally safe. I'm sitting here in the comfort of my home office. I have my tea. It's climate controlled. Okay. So the kind of...

Mordecai Rosenberg: 13:05

Is your tea climate controled?

JD Stettin: 13:07

I guess to a degree that retains heat I know that's what I said You pointed it out but like even that right? Yeah, everything we have is so safe and well taken care of. And and you know, you're not upset for the reasons you think you are again, I am never upset for the reason I think so much of the reactions are body has come from like reptilian brain, right? fight and flight and freeze. And so feeling these feelings of like, oh, man, I'm let someone let me down. I'm letting someone down. I'm not making money. I'm doing a bad job. Like all these things that come up. This person is reliable. I trusted them. Breach of whatever. Okay, but am I am I safe? Like, oh, yeah, I'm actually safe. Is does this call ends my career? It doesn't end my career. If this call ended my career, would I still be safe? And okay, in this moment, I guess I actually would, and so kind of just peeling that back and being like, okay, so then what am I? What is so bothersome in this moment? And, again, maybe that wasn't a direct response to the question, but I think about that idea of presence or being in the present. Again, it feels like kind of there's doesn't seem like unless maybe some really hardcore devotional practices of like, meditating and maybe sitting in a forest all day, I don't know always being in the present, but just kind of like nudging gently in that direction, almost like kind of picturing like someone nodding off while they're driving late at night and like, as they're about to drive into the guardrail, they snap awake and like kind kind of get back on course. And, and, and it keeps going. And I kind of feel that that's like maybe one of the tensions that we're up against is it's not that we're ever going to be fully in the present every second, I mean, having this conversation with you like, I mean, I'm thinking, I'm talking, right. Sometimes I'm listening to, you know, like, that's, how's that present, but catching myself veering, like, way off from the present, and just kind of correcting the course a little bit being like, okay, okay. And we're back.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 15:31

Yeah, one of the things that that you mentioned in the book is that all these exercises that it's, the exercises are not about getting to understanding that this is in Lesson Nine. But it's it. It says that it's about practice, not about understanding, right? Because that's the goal. If the goal is to get to understanding, then you? Well, it's just I guess, it's just some of these concepts you just, I don't know, I liked that. Because it realized that, okay, this isn't like you have to be able to wrap your head around, it just you have to kind of just, it's kind of like the Karate Kid. Wax on wax off. Right? Just so like your, your point, yes, you notice yourself being upset and just say, all right, like I'm not, you know, I'm not upset for the reason I think I am. So the other part, you know, when we, we started talking about that you can't lose what you never had. But if I said, let's, let's talk about it, but I want to explore the other side of that, which is this idea I'm playing around with, which is that that, like you have what you get, those are like you have what you can never lose, and things that you can never lose. You have.

JD Stettin: 17:01

That's nice.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 17:03

So let's think about like your experience at the game went to a concert last night, right? And that's something right, there's something about that experience, right? That you can never, you can never lose. Maybe you can lose your memory at some point in the future. But like, but but but no one can take like, if if you were if you were robbed, and someone took all of your assets, like you would still have that experience. So so if that idea of that the things that you can never lose? What...anything come to mind? Yeah, maybe it's it could be, you know, inexperience it could be. But I think maybe there's more there. But where would you...anything come to mind to you?

JD Stettin: 17:56

That's, that's a really nice in verse I guess, have that thought of, of some sort of, you know, inalienable part of, of ourselves. And I mean, I think in a way, one thing that that comes up is, is the present moment. And whatever, whatever capacity wherever you are, if you're at a place where you can ask that question, that can be your answer. And I think to your point, you can lose, you can lose your memory, and even, even if you don't lose it, as things change, your perceptions, or your memories can change, or can become tinged and more pleasant or less pleasant. But in a way, the one thing we always have until, you know, as far as we know, until until death is you have whatever right now looks like. And that's something that again, you can own that can only be taken from you, I suppose and death. But you have to have the present moment, always. Which is, which is again, if the past is all, you know, misconception and the future is all projection based on misconception. In some ways, that's like kind of, right. So the thing that's left is, is the present that is ours. And that will always be true in every in every iteration of present.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 19:41

Yeah. Yeah. Another thing that comes to mind is, is love. Yeah, likely if you have let's say you have a I don't know a grandparent you have a family member, you know Who? If you're, you're close with, right? And they love you when you love them, right? If they if you, if you like when they pass or when you pass right like that, you know when you die like that love still you still have you still have that love, right? You still feel their love. Right? And you still feel your love toward towards them. So that's I think that's something else that you can't, you can't lose.

JD Stettin: 20:38

Yeah, I really, I really love that idea that that that kind of love doesn't, you know, doesn't go anywhere.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 20:46

Yeah. Yeah, I think there's also I mean, this gets into maybe part of like the president, but they're all it's so it's like this sense of of like who I am. Right? It's like this idea of like I am. Yeah, like there's, it's I've always thought that I you from the time that you're a kid, right? There is some sense of like, Oh, I'm having this experience. Like, um, the experience of being boarded, right for me is like I have, like, you can't take that away. It's what that feels like, can be different. Right. But that general sense of like? Yeah, that just that feeling of being in your skin, like in your own mind, like, there's some fear. So you know, that that's something that you...You have? Yeah, I'm wondering about the that. The, like, those experiences that do stay with us, right, like, yeah, those moments, where, you know, maybe it is like an amazing concert? Or is, you know, seeing an Olympic performance, we're like, something's things where, what is it about those experiences that do feel like they are sticky, or that they stay with us more than because, like, I would say, like, you know, if I, if I would go downstairs and have a sandwich, like, I'm not, it doesn't feel like oh, yeah, that's gonna like, stay with me for you know, that that experience is gonna stay with me, right, it's gonna, it's something where it touches the sublime that those experiences stay with you more like what was,

JD Stettin: 22:36

as do, I think, also really painful experiences. That's true. And that's an interesting, like, just thinking about the, the intensity of certain experiences, whether they're pleasure or pain in a way that even you know, in a smaller example, for sure, but like, a particularly amazing meal that you once had, like, might stay with you for a bit, I mean, not the same as like meeting the love of your life. But a particularly amazing meal might certainly stay with me, I can remember some over the course of my life in a way that probably what I'm going to eat for lunch today is not going to be gonna be that. So this kind of notion of these peaks or peak experiences and how they really do shape us. And I think that's kind of an interesting going back to, you know, some of the, the text in the way in which we do see it only the past, so much of our present experiences, and things we look to maybe either seek out and avoid, are based on some of those highs and lows, that we that we remember, if a certain person or experience really hurt us, excuse me, I feel like we're prone or liable to try to avoid that going forward. Whereas if a certain kind of experience or person made us, you know, to your point, the sublime, a certain band, right, that really like their tunes, just get you we're liable to like, seek that out and continue to seek that out and go and grow with it. And it's not necessarily a problem. I think that's where I think that these reminders of like, I see only the past my mind is preoccupied with past thoughts. I see nothing as it is now. Again, it feels just like a good like gentle correction or like a check, you know, just like a kind of like sound like like a snap out of it for a second like Oh, right. Of course I remember that being a certain way and that's why I'm looking at it and and if it's a nice thing, you know, you're welcome to hold on to that like, oh, yeah, I always loved maple trees because there

Mordecai Rosenberg: 24:57

Yeah. It's so slippery, though. You know, was one out so I'd have my grandmother's house. And that's probably why I'm drawn to this one. Lovely. On the other hand, if you're like, I always hated maple trees, because my, you know, the bully who picked on me in third grade had a maple tree in his house. And maybe you catch them go, oh, but and is that happening now? And am I feeling and that's an opportunity to maybe give ourselves some care and realize, Oh, I'm suffering from a past wound, and sit with that in some compassion. And the experience isn't that there's something wrong with the maple tree. It's Oh, the, you know, eight year old me was was hurt by someone or felt unloved or unworthy. And it just, it creates an opportunity to, to practice some degree of maybe compassion or love or, or presence in that. it's like that is the one. Like, when you when you come across something where it's like, oh, yeah, like, there I really messed up like this is, you know, it could be whatever, like, just, you know, it's your now Yeah, so my, my son Asher is like, he's 16. And so he can theoretically, take his driver's test like soon. And I'm not ready. Like, I'm not really ready for that yet. I feel like I don't I don't feel like he's necessarily ready yet. So, but the idea of like, setting, you know, I worried about, like, impacting his confidence and like, you know, like for me to say like, yeah, like, I don't think you're ready yet. Right. So then, but then in my head is so starts, I start going to, like, maybe I haven't been setting like, appropriate limits for my kids. Like, it was I was like, Okay, I've done like the left part. But have I not since I have it, like, am I totally screwed up? Like, yeah, but just setting more limits on that. And they're like, expectations that are that. I don't know, where restrictions. So and then I come. So then it's like, oh, shoot, like, I just like, did I blow it? Like, you know, did that really blow the last 16 years? Like if I, if I could start that over again? And, you know, set more like expectations, like earlier on? Yeah. So, but it's like, that's what, but then my head is like, very comfortable staying there. Right? And thinking about that, right, then, but those moments of where you feel totally present. Right. And I have this, like, I have this like in meditation. Rarely, but on occasion where you get to this point where you feel like, well, like you're like, in your, like, skating on that present. And you're like, like, Please Like don't like don't go I don't go I like just can't relax. Like don't, don't let it go. Right. And it just it slipped right through your you know, it's, it's it's like holding sand in your in your hand and it just like, it just slips. Right. So it's like, it's funny how those things? Yeah, they're, they're they're illusory, right? And then it's based on our past and it's based on on imaginary thoughts. And yet, like, those are so sticky. Yeah. And how,

JD Stettin: 28:30

in ways like unique they are, to each of us. You know, the particularly sticky ones like there's just, it's just so based on Yeah, personal history and time. And, and place, you know, Proust preusse MADELINE means nothing to anyone else, you know, he bit into it and like, took him right back to his childhood, but like, I don't know, go get one from a French bakery. I guarantee you nothing like that will happen.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 29:03

Right.

JD Stettin: 29:04

It doesn't. It doesn't go that way. It makes me think of something you were saying how elute like slick, slick and slippery that present is it reminds me of something. I think his name is Dr. Sigfried. Maybe I might be making this up. But did you have him at MTA taught calc?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 29:21

No.

JD Stettin: 29:23

He, he. Again, this is significant. To me. It's the first time I heard this when I was 16. But you said this about infinity. He's like, infinity isn't a thing. It's not a Buick. It's a direction. It's not a number. It's a direction. And you know, when you look at these graphs, and like early calculus, and this is where by the way for listeners, this is where my knowledge of calculus starts and stops. But these these graphs are you know, whatever the answer is, and it's like an asymptote to infinity and it just kind of like rides that that lie And it never gets anywhere. There's no, again, infinity isn't an endpoint. It's not a number. It's not a thing. It's a direction and I kind of talking about it today it made me think about that with with presence or present. It's not if it isn't actually, you can't ever pinpoint it. It's, it's a direction, it's, are we closer to present? Are we further from present like to really be present? The second you say it or think it or notice it? It's by definition over. Right, just by labeling it or by catching? It's like I'm pressing up? Really, you just said that, you know, like, you just reflected on it like you can't. And so this, yeah, it's this funny, slippery fish that, you know, you're like kind of grabbing. And every time you grab it just like slides through your hands, so you can just keep trying to be in contact with it maybe

Mordecai Rosenberg: 30:58

Right. But maybe that behavior, right, like maybe the point is that when you feel that flipper, Enos, that itself is an indication that it's like that. Yeah, you are just in the present. Right. And that's why you can't hold on to it. Right? Yeah, I think I remember. I have to go back and look at what Spaceballs the movie, but there is there's some part where like, they're able to like, watch the movie. Yeah. And he's like watching the movie as they're performing it. It's like, well, when did that happen? Well, now what do you mean, that just happened? Yeah, it happened now, and again now.

JD Stettin: 31:35

And now and now and now.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 31:38

It's so that's the thing, right? Is that you can't hold that you can't hold on to it. Like you have to just kind of like, let go. And that's what but that's what we try to do. Right. It's like the old the old m&ms commercial. Also where the with the sun, the sunset, where? Maybe before your time, but maybe M&Ms or Lifesavers?

JD Stettin: 32:02

We're very limited TV time. Yeah.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 32:05

Yeah. Yeah. The father and daughter are watching a sunset, right? And it goes and it goes down. And then the daughter says, like, do it again, daddy, like if they wish. It's like, you're like, Can we repeat it? But you can't, right. And if you try to hold on to that sunset, you lose the experience of sunset. The whole point is that it's setting. Yeah, so that's yeah, so maybe, so that that's actually very, very interesting. And maybe what you have to get comfortable with is that feeling of constant slipperiness. Yeah. That's, that's, there's something there's something there to things. It's like, if it's if it's sticky, right, that's a sign that it's not the present. Because if you can't stick to it, it's not happening. Now. There's no now to hold on to.

JD Stettin: 33:09

Totally if you're resting, and if but by definition, if it's not dynamic, if it's static, then it's past or future. And yeah, you can't hold on, like, you're holding onto a moving vehicle. Kind of like that's not a Yeah. And then you're moving with it. So.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 33:26

Yeah, I was thinking about this mindfulness, right, this term, right? And, and it's like, the least mindful thing you can do is to keep your mind full. Right? It's like weird that mind full?

JD Stettin: 33:45

Full right. Full of mind.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 33:46

Full of mind.

JD Stettin: 33:47

Right.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 33:47

Like, right, it's like, if it's full of mind, then you're not...

JD Stettin: 33:53

Right, like mindless you know.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 33:55

Mindless, right!?

JD Stettin: 33:57

Yeah.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 33:58

And what is mindless, right? That's actually kind of firing mindless means that you're like, doing something. You know...

JD Stettin: 34:06

...while watching Netflix. Yeah,

Mordecai Rosenberg: 34:07

Watching Netflix, right?

JD Stettin: 34:08

Yeah.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 34:09

But actually like mindless is is where you can get to write in that in that in a state of presence. That's kind of the goal. So maybe we should do that we should do. We can change our name to your Road to Mindlessness.

JD Stettin: 34:31

Yeah, Our Personal Mindlessness Practices List

Mordecai Rosenberg: 34:34

Exactly yeah, my Yeah. Mindlessness.

JD Stettin: 34:37

Really good. Ooh, that's a fun one.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 34:39

Yeah!

JD Stettin: 34:40

That's a really that feels like a very and I haven't heard him say it, but that feels like a very Alan Watts. You know, word play topsy turvy kind of joke.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 34:51

Yeah,

JD Stettin: 34:51

I really? I really I liked that. That's gonna be I'm gonna play with that this week.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 34:55

Yeah. Well, my mindfulness is is like how It is before the time of my of the mindfulness movement. I feel like that. I mean, obviously mindfulness was something

JD Stettin: 35:09

Sure, but the buzz, the buzz vibe, right. It being used in so many ways.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 35:15

Yeah.

JD Stettin: 35:16

All right. Well, let's, let's, let's get a timeline. Let's see. Yeah, let's be a little mindless this week. See how that goes.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 35:23

Awesome. All right. JD

JD Stettin: 35:26

All right Mordy!. Until next time, stay perplexed everyone. And mindless and mindlessness, that's the goal!

Mordecai Rosenberg: 35:33

okay. Talk to you later.