Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:00

JD Welcome to our next episode Guide from the Perplexed. As we're saying this will be about 30 minutes or so. So call this "A Shortly with Morty"

JD Stettin: 0:13

"A Shorty with Morty" .That's #shortywithMorty for those of you who use hashtags and follow things.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:18

Before we get into this week's discussion about thoughts, I noticed something in last week's Torah portion that connected the conversation we had with Trav the other week. It's in Genesis 18. The scene is Abraham has just circumcised himself. I wonder if he actually circumcised himself.

JD Stettin: 0:38

He must have, right? Who else? Or maybe it was the servant, Eliezer?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:42

Eliezer. So to set the stage, right, Abraham and just circumcise himself and so and you know, that the three days afterwards are like, very painful. And so he's sitting in his tent and says, God appeared to him by the terrapins of Momray, he was sitting at the entrance of the tent, as a day grew hot, God actually came to visit him. And then what happens Abraham looked up and he saw three figures standing near him, perceiving this, he ran from the entrance of the tent to greet them, and bowing to the ground. He said, my lords, if it please you, do not go on past your servant for so hesees these three men that are nearby. And he's like, we're like how long God, let me go. They just hold that thought. And he runs to meet them. And he says, Let me give you a little water, let me wash your feet, can used to make this whole meal for that them here we learn it's preferable to serve right? Other people to kind of sit with God, right? Or something like that. What did we dream up right on the spiritual path? Like what more is there than to actually sit with God right in your tent to be like, Alright, that's it. I have achieved this. Nothing else matters, right? But Abraham is at that point, but when he sees a need, he sees three people that you think could use help some foods and water, he runs out and does that. Yeah. So you know, when we we spoke to trap you, we were talking about the idea of self help or self development that is better to kind of get the self out of it. And just to see how you can help others do more help and less self. They're really

JD Stettin: 2:16

like that. And I think it's also really funny, that thing that you connected with Travis was like your weekly Torah portion, I think that I connected was a Seinfeld episode making fun of them. Were for those of you Seinfeld fans, it's the old man episode. And you know, George, Jerry and Elaine are sitting at the diner as they do. And Elaine talks about having signed up to volunteer to spend time with old people. And how she feels better already. She hasn't even done it. She just signed up for it. She already feels good. And George goes home like he's he's just his mind's been like helping other people. Of course, of course. Like, why didn't I think of this? And it's like, Yes, that's correct that Seinfeld's one of the major premises are there these incredibly selfish entitled 30 Something year olds in New York who are really living only oven for themselves, and this season, the series finale addresses that, but yeah, just such a great reminder of like, getting lost, how easy just to get lost, in that. And this notion of self and self cultivation, and, and maybe sort of serving others being with others being present being in our lives is is maybe more more what it's about, or at the very least, I don't know, more or less, but as ever, depending on where anyone is coming from, just a way to check in and yeah, excuse me temper things. And I think so too, you could you could be lost and trying to serve others and lose maybe any sense of self and that can be unhealthy and harmful to so as ever. A nice, a nice balance. But yeah, I really I like that idea. It makes me think to in the Buddhist sense of I think like the the Bodhisattva, right, like someone who is in you know, enlightened or whatever, spiritually advanced, but doesn't go live in a forest or in a monastery, but like, comes back and hangs out among people. Because that's, you know, that's what it's about. So being a human form is to be with be in human form with others and

Mordecai Rosenberg: 4:17

right. So we'll use that as a segue to get into so I think we're, we are going to dig into lesson 10 in in Course in Miracles. And just like, Yeah, I think we're this is a new model that we're using a new text. And so we'll figure out I mean, the listeners are probably intuited, or that we're figuring this out as we as we go, and we'll see what works and sometimes we'll dig in to get to one lesson sometimes look for Thea, but less than 10 is, my thoughts do not mean anything. Yeah, we have thoughts on what we should do, what we shouldn't do, what's going well, what's not going well, and of course, America Will says that all thoughts do not mean anything. And he's very specific that it's about all thoughts. It's your bad thoughts and your good thoughts and the practices to search your mind you spend a minute or so and just let the thoughts come into like, my thoughts about whatever do not mean anything. So my thoughts about the meeting that's coming up to me mean anything my thoughts about issues I'm having with my child doesn't mean anything that stress about planning a trip with my family doesn't mean anything like all you know, just whatever thoughts come up, just say your they don't mean anything. What does that what does that mean? Right? But you don't mean anything? What comes to mind for you like as far as it means? So like, what are what are thoughts? Even?

JD Stettin: 5:44

Yeah, and something for my fellow like, I say this with love, but like, pain in the ass logicians are like, Well, if your thoughts don't mean it, like then the thought about the thoughts not meaning anything also doesn't mean, you know, there's a sort of sort of like, circular thing happening here that I, every time I go back to this chapter that comes up for me a little bit of like, it's almost paralyzing, because any thought you're about to have any words, she writes in anything by that logic would have, you know, quote, unquote, does not does not mean anything. So it's an interesting kind of pickle, to be in, to recognize that or try to work on noticing or playing with this notion that my thoughts don't mean anything, including that thought, and every thought and so much of our life is in thought, and any idea or notion or sense of anything is a thought any, any attempt to put anything in words, if you're describing a feeling or a pain you have it becomes a thought. I think it's a it's a tricky one. And it almost feels a bit like a Zen koan of some kind, just by saying it, it's already contradicted itself. And yet, there's a beautiful truth nugget there that we can hold, even as it's hard to hold. Again, that was my kind of initial take when hitting this chapter, the first time of like, what do I do? All my thoughts are thoughts, they all mean nothing, but then kind of actually trying it on for size and playing with it. And noticing like, okay, let's pick a thought my thought, you know, as each one crosses your mind, you say, my thought about blank does not mean anything. And this idea will help to release me from all that I now believe. I think that's the follow up phrase to the exercise. And it just whatever it does, or doesn't mean in a literal sense. It's a really cool exercise. And I encourage those of you who, especially if you're feeling tough feelings about it, as you hear us talking about it, and it sounds like you're gaslighting yourself, right? That you're saying, Oh, my thoughts don't mean anything like what? Try not try it on for size. It's, it's kind of interesting to see that any thought is just feels very much house of like a house of cards, you realize that this thought are I realized in here, let's let's take a thought not speak in the abstract. I'm having a particular concern about as we often choose work, work examples, a deal we're working on that the borrower now changed last minute, and instead of a master tenant, they're going to be three different tenants. And now the lender has to somehow get okay with this. And I find myself feeling like, Oh, why did the borrower have to complicate things last last minute? Okay, that's my thought. So my thought about this deal does not mean anything. Well, okay, that thought about a borrower complicating something there. Just look at all the assumptions that are baked into that there's somewhere else that we should be that things should somehow be different or easier or simpler than, then they are that people's business plans and needs should fit smoothly into what I've built in. And really just like picking it apart, piece by piece, like even like Jenga tower and you just remove like blocks and Jenga so it's not to topple the tower. So kind of picking up these thoughts. It's almost like take whatever comes easiest, the things that are easiest to see that okay, clearly, that's doesn't mean anything, or that's based on something and you keep going, keep going, keep going. And eventually, the whole tower does kind of crumble and like going through this exercise about anything, whether it's a work problem of quote unquote, problem or personal problem. As you pick it apart, you get back to I think, for me, the present moment where there actually there isn't a problem. Like if I can keep pulling away the Jenga blocks of this work thing, and then the lender might not approve it, then the client will be upset that I've wasted all this time. We won't make the money we won't close the clients won't use us again. The lenders will be annoyed because we wasted their time. Great. Now, I'm still sitting here in a room talking to my friend. Is there a problem? It's like, oh, no, not really. I'm alive. If I'm healthy, I'm in a safe space. I'm in connection. Yeah, all of my thoughts about that. That's all that they were

Mordecai Rosenberg: 10:06

right. And where do they even come from? Right? I think that's one thing that we have gained from meditation where we have this idea of like, Oh, I'm, you know, who was a Descartes? I think, therefore I am. How do you know that? What does that mean? I think I think that we thinking it means that I'm creating that thought, and that somehow I'm generating that thought, is that really our experience? You know, when you sit and you just watch first thing, and when you start with meditation, the first thing that comes to mind is I'm not going to do this not be able to this chair is uncomfortable. Am I doing this? Right? It's like that straight? What's that noise? Like, oh, man, now my focus is disrupted because I heard car horn outside, right? Your mind just starts going through it. It's almost like the the ticker, you know, at the bottom of the like a news channel, where it's just all these thoughts. Just come, right. And I used to play this game when I was a kid sometimes where like, I'd start by thinking about one thing, then all of a sudden, I'd catch myself like, a few minutes later, and I'm thinking about something totally different than I tried to like piece back with. We hadn't get to that thought like, Oh, right. I was thinking about my test tomorrow, then that made me think about the teacher, and their name rhymes with tenor. And then it made me think of pens, and then the sauce just keep on flowing. Right. But what we want to do, what we naturally do is we identify with them, we think, if I'm having that thought it must be real. The reality is that, like you said, right, most of those thoughts are Is it real? Or is it just like, an idea and opinion? Yeah, reminds me in some ways that like a social media feed now, or like if you if you look at Twitter, right, you could look at Twitter and sounds like the world is gonna blow up. It's gonna like self destruct because of this, but but I woke up this morning, sun still rose Sal to get my kids on the bus. We still had our podcast, yes, still have my health like, and not to minimize the issues that are in the world. But is that really true that social media makes you feel like those ideas? All these thoughts that people are having have a lot more reality to them, then is actually the

JD Stettin: 12:10

case? Yeah. And and I think something occurs to me in this chapter, it's interesting with the social media is just the profusion of media over the last say, 100 years and thinking about the human experience 100, maybe 250, I don't know exactly like when say newspapers became super common more than 150 Give or take years ago, that doesn't mean people didn't have thoughts and sayings floating around their heads. And there's obviously something wonderful about our time and being able to be exposed to so many different thoughts and ideas and ways of connecting like on this podcast, who would not be possible otherwise, if we lived in different you know, states living living in a world where so much is written word or digital word or spoken word just there's so much thought so many ideas so much. They're all of which is being presented as if it's reality. And and that's maybe initially felt like saying something isn't real, or it does not mean anything like, what do we mean by that doesn't mean anything. I mean, it mean something that I think are on some level like that mean, something to me, to you. And what I think she might be getting at with it doesn't mean anything is it's not that it's nothing so much as recognizing, like you said that it's just one part of one thought of one experience that's changing. And that may come from who knows where to begin with? And how does it compare, like you're saying to the reality that you're actually experiencing interesting, too, I think she talks about how this is different from the earlier exercises. And for those of you who remember from previous weeks that you kind of look around the room and say, you know, this table, I don't see this or it doesn't and this is a little more inner focused, it's not so much looking at external objects, as it is noticing the currents of thought in our own heads as they they flashed by our own little news, channels of mind that are constantly saying these things. And she says, this aspect of the correction process began with the idea that the thoughts of which you're aware, are meaningless outside rather than within and then stress their past rather than the present status. Now we are emphasizing that the presence of these thoughts and quotes means that you are not thinking this is merely another way of repeating an earlier statement that your mind is really a blank. And that's kind of an interesting like concept to write like our mind really being a blank. How does that strike you?

Mordecai Rosenberg: 14:51

And the other part that I'll just your add on to that is, then I'll address it but sure, they say that when you're doing this exercise, you should also be stopped aren't going to end with saying that this idea will help to release me from all that I now believe that's also what challenging, it's like that we have to let go of everything we believe. What does that mean that we're not thinking? Right that our mind is really blank? I guess what it means is that if he go to a movie theater, right, and you look at the screen, well, there's a picture on the screen. Does that mean the screen is the picture? No, it is actually a projector coming from the back of the theater that's projecting this image onto a blank screen, the screen is actually blank. So there is somehow there is that idea that some that the thoughts are coming from somewhere, but the thoughts are actually coming from some external projector and they're being projected onto your mind, but your mind itself is not the thought your mind is blank, this idea of releasing all I now believe, you know, it also made me think of story from actually the think to our person last week, which is the binding of Isaac, which is like, the craziest story where you see you have Abraham, he's, you know, at the age of, I don't know, 99 is promised that he's gonna have like a son, Sarah is barren, and miraculously, like, now has this child all of a sudden, you know, it seems like promises that God made are going to come true. And then one day, God says, Are you Abraham, actually that son that I gave you that I told you was going to be like your future and your legacy? sacrificer to me, so bring go bring him up time down and slit his throat? What does that mean? Abraham is like, we think God like just isn't God kind like, isn't this all about love? At the very least isn't God honest? Doesn't he like not like you said, your this is going to my legacy is going to come through Isaac, now you're telling me to kill him. So now you're a liar. Also, at the end of the story is that Abraham does. He's he has the basically the knife to Isaac's throat, and it's about to slaughter him. And then an angel comes and says, Alright, now I know, you really love me. You don't have to do it. Don't take them off the altar, just like, right? It's like, gotcha. It's it's the mean, the whole thing sounds. I mean, it's the most cruel task you can imagine. Like, if you don't say, Oh, that's a loving God, maybe what we have to deal with, or what Abraham was being tasked with was this idea of like, No, you do not understand anything. And just because in your mind, you think that God, it should be kind, you've created this projection of what kindness means. This, you know, nothing, you understand nothing, the eternal question of like, why bad things happen to good people? It's like, how can we understand that? You know, there are wars, and they're people killing and they're always like, well, so you think humans shouldn't kill each other? Okay, except that that's what they've done. Like, literally since like the beginning of creation, the first Adam and Eve in this in the Bible, Adam and Eve own children, one kills the other and enable it. So society progresses and humanity moves, moves, like through that messiness. But it's me, it's a threatening idea that we're supposed to release everything we believe, because like, how do I know that up is up and down is down? I guess it's a no, that one's like a real challenging one. For me, there's a lot there,

JD Stettin: 18:01

I'm still taking that in I, that's a really interesting read of the binding of the mirror, the near murder of Isaac, it makes me think of something that I think, again, as I often do, heard, or learned from Michael singer, which is, in a way, this notion that like we actually do know, there is, maybe I shouldn't attribute this to him, I'm just gonna say it. And I don't know if you'd want me to say his name. But there's a deeper, maybe knowing awareness, presence, whatever different ways of understanding this behind, like you said, that kind of screen of the mind onto which these thoughts are being projected. And this exercise that we're doing about all your thoughts mean nothing, which is not saying that all of our maybe inclinations or feelings or knowings mean nothing so much as some of the thinking mind that heart that like hyper rational monkey mind, chattering mind, whatever you want to call it, but there's a way in which and this is the Michael singer concept, he talks about when we've had a certain trauma our mind and body and often the response is to try and protect us against any future similar trauma. And so anytime anything that reminds us of this thing, or gets close to it, we have adopt all sorts of defensive or offensive sometimes postures and ways of being. And something that he he said is like, our body already, once a thing has happened, our systems already have learned and like, no, excuse me, ah, that's a dangerous thing, you know, might want to try to avoid that. And it's actually our thinking mind, the way we respond with whatever. And all these different behaviors are feeling triggered. That if we could just let the thinking mind go and say The system already knows. And we don't need these extra thoughts and precautionary measures, you know, belt and suspenders as the saying goes. And so too there's this way that maybe this chapter in this this lesson, the saying is inviting us to let go of those very particular like intellectual thought, concepts and constructs because underneath it, we have a knowing and a wisdom of just thinking about like, what look at what good all the things our system knows how to do that never make it up onto that, you know, projector screen of the mind breathing and creating blood cell I mean, all the things that from the time you're, you know, fetus and figuring out how to build yourself before you have consciousness for the years before you. I mean, for what two years of our lives, we don't even have conscious minds. And yet, we know how to do everything. We know how to you know suckle for milk, we know we smile, we receive love, we want love, we can give love, we can express dissatisfied, like, we don't have a conscious mind and look at look at, you know, obviously animals and plants and mushrooms and they they all know how to live in the world. And to your point, some of it seems strikes us as violent, right, like a bird of prey or a shark or animals and any predator that subsists on eating other animals like is that somehow bad or wrong? I don't know, that feels like a strange take on it. It's not that we have no true inclinations, or thoughts or feelings so much as recognizing that the stuff that's playing in the movie theater up here, that is all constructed by ourselves, our culture's our families, or whatever is and underneath that are a movie that's playing at the same time, but we're just somehow not able to watch in that same theater is happening anyway. And there's like a deep knowing and reality that comes with that.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 22:04

Right? Like what's evolution? You know, it's your one thing that I don't know, if we've talked about, but a lot about is that the whole idea of like, like Darwinian evolution is like, what's the key to that the key is mutation, right? We think that you want to be like, optimal, or you want to be like, you're the optimal thing, right. But all of a sudden, there's a mutation rate, the first like, fish that started sprouting, like little legs was probably like, really made fun of in class for having his little legs, you know, so to speak. Yeah. That was the beginning of humanity. So it's that somehow there is a wisdom in the universe, that things kind of play out and develop, you know, looking back, it's like, you know, it's very easy to see evolution, you know, we can we can look back and to our evolution from primates, and from primates, ultimately, to fish and single celled organisms right. Now, it makes a lot of sense, but it seemed very chaotic and destructive, and probably hopeless in every step of that. But somehow, there's a knowledge underneath so yeah, so maybe having that confidence stay with it. But this idea that like, no, like, your thoughts, that you don't know what you're supposed to do, it's like, no, you will, you will end up doing what you're supposed to do, right somehow, even though it every day, it's like, well, what should I do first? What should I do? Second, like how, how I can do that. When you look back? With some how you handled everything that came to you. I'm always worried about financial, how am I gonna pay for, you know, what happens? It's like, you know, the market goes in the toilet, and how am I gonna pay for my house? And how am I gonna pay for my kids tuition and this and that, right. But some I've had those thoughts every year for the last 17 years. And somehow, it always somehow it always ends up working, works out

JD Stettin: 23:48

and remembering that yeah, part of part of working out is sickness and death, too, right? Like, right, there's this way. And you know, we're all oriented in a lot of ways to to be alive, to stay alive to maybe create more life, maintain life, and yet, everyone who has ever been born dies as far as we, as far as we know. Yeah. And there's no amount of thinking and planning and science. I don't think I mean, I suppose maybe Ray Kurzweil and Some futurists might might disagree, but every one we know and love and knew and loved will end up dead. And we're so busy, worried, like it's gonna work out as my perfect little plan is whatever, it's like, something's gonna happen. And eventually, whether it's tomorrow or in 10 years, it's going to end for someone I know. We have to wrap on on that note. So dark, disturbed thoughts, perhaps, but all meaningless anyway. Well enjoy your meaningless day and meaningless week and

Mordecai Rosenberg: 24:47

yeah, yeah, we'll talk about that some more. Because, because I definitely have a natural negative reaction to the idea of meaninglessness so we can maybe Fun, fun talking about that and play with that. Alright. JD That concludes our story with Marty

JD Stettin: 25:02

Marty over and out

Mordecai Rosenberg: 25:04

all right bye

JD Stettin: 25:05

Thanks bye