Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Digital is a demanding and competitive field. And women are still grossly underpaid & underrepresented. But we are not powerless; we have each other. Together Digital Power Lounge is your place to hear authentic conversations from women in digital who have power to share. Listen and learn from our amazing guests along with host Amy Vaughan, Owner and Chief Empowerment Officer of Together Digital. Together Digital is a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital who choose to share their knowledge, power, and connections. To learn more, visit www.togetherindigital.com.
Together Digital Power Lounge, Women in Digital with Power to Share
Powering Performance: Workplace Motivation
Welcome to a new episode of The Power Lounge! I'm Amy Vaughn, Chief Empowerment Officer at Together Digital. Today, we're discussing workplace motivation and mental health with Kelly McCollum, founder of STAY and an expert in employee engagement. We'll cover issues like burnout recognition, building trust with employees, and changes in career expectations due to platforms like LinkedIn. Kelly will share insights on intrinsic motivation, using AI for career growth, and maintaining work-life balance. We'll also explore strategies for leaders to create an engaging culture and effectively motivate their teams. Join us to learn about the psychological aspects of performance in the workplace and how to create an environment where every team member thrives. Let’s power up your performance journey!
Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellymaccallum/
Guest Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kulturekelly
Guest Website: https://www.staytalent.com/
Episode Timestamps:
00:00 – Introduction
00:45 - Transforming Workplaces through Employee Engagement
07:06 - The Importance of Stability in the Workplace for Productivity and Morale
14:23 - Using Data to Understand and Measure Employee Motivation
19:00 - Cultivating an Inclusive Culture to Foster Diverse Leadership
24:57 - Navigating the Workplace: Advice for Job Seekers in Marginalized Spaces
30:52 - Importance of Clear Goals and Communication
32:41 - The Key to Motivating and Providing Feedback to Creative Professionals
39:40 - Aligning Personal and Organizational Values for Satisfying Career Choices
42:53 - The Future of Remote Work and Managing Current Work Stress
47:35 - The Impact of Employee Happiness on Productivity and Health
57:12 - Strategies to Manage Time Effectively and Reduce People-Pleasing
58:36 - Setting Boundaries to Enhance Self-Care and Support Others
01:01:24 - Outro
Quote of the Episode:
"I learned that strong leadership can inspire teams, even without technical skills.”- Kelly McCollum
"Regardless of personal feelings, the key to business success lies in actively investing in and inspiring your team." — Kelly McCollum
All right. Hello everyone, and welcome to our weekly power lounge. This is your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughn and I am the owner and chief empowerment officer of Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women in digital who choose to share their knowledge, power and connections. You can join the movement at togetherindigitalcom and today we are going to dive deep into the heart of what makes our workplace truly thrive. And no, we're not just talking about free snacks and work from home Fridays. We are talking about exploring the powerful forces of intrinsic motivation and the psychology behind optimal performance.
Speaker 1:Our guest today is a true expert on employee engagement, with over three decades of experience and attraction and recognition and our retention and recognition. Kelly McCollum is the founder of Stay and a whiz at cracking the code of workplace culture. Her tell it like it is approach has transformed organizations across North America to employee magnets. So, whether you're a creative director to looking to spark innovation for your design team, a digital marketing manager aiming to boost productivity, and you're always on environment Our tech leaders striving to cultivate a more inclusive and more motivated development team, You're in the right place.
Speaker 1:I know this has been a big topic of conversation. As we're all kind of sitting in this weird world of hybrid remote work as well, I hope you're all ready to challenge your assumptions, gain some actionable insights and walk away with some tools to create a workplace where people don't just show up, but show up excited and ready to excel. Remember, live listeners. We know that you're here with us and we love to have you here with us to be able to make your comments in the chat, ask your questions, share any of your experiences and enthusiasm. So please don't hold back. We love to hear from you Everyone. Please welcome our expert and guest today, Kelly McCollum, and let's dive into the powering, performance and workplace motivation. Welcome, Kelly.
Speaker 2:Hey, thanks Amy for having me. I really appreciate it. I know we've been a long time in the working, so great to finally get together and have the chat.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely, yes, very much agree. This is an important topic. I realize we talk a lot about digital marketing and advertising, but a lot of us within this community are team and group leaders and we have to do a lot to work and motivate the people that are around us. And again, as our work environments have been changing and evolving over the last few years, you know this stuff it kind of just seems to get harder rather than easier. But I want to take a step back for a moment and I want to start at the beginning, specifically your beginning, kelly, and I want to kind of let our listeners know how you first got interested in employee engagement and what was your journey to founding your company.
Speaker 2:Stay, yeah, yeah, we'll get to that in one second. I just want to affirm something you said Management is hard. It is Like management is hard. It's always been hard and it's not getting any easier. The circumstances we see ourself in and the realities of 2024, like it's not getting any easier. Uh, the circumstances we see ourself in and the realities of 2024 like it, it's not getting easier to be a manager. So I think the first thing I want to say to anybody who's in a leadership position is cut yourself some slack right, because it's a it's a demanding job.
Speaker 2:You're being asked to do 50 different things and you have a life outside of that. So you know I'll start with that and about me. So employee engagement. Like I, I never heard of employee engagement until, you know, sometime in the 2000s. So you know, back in the early 90s when I started working, we didn't talk about things like engagement or culture. We just knew if we liked our jobs or hated our jobs. Right, and I do my part.
Speaker 2:Early in my career I'd volunteer on social committees and try and plan great parties and golf tournaments and that was kind of like what culture was at the time, bringing a little bit of fun to work. And so it wasn't until I landed a job as a project manager with an employee engagement survey company that I started to be able to put some pieces around. What is this thing that makes us like our work and hate our work? And they introduced the concept of employee engagement. And probably you all know what an engagement is, but I'll tell you, because I didn't know, and it's basically like the emotional connection that we have to our work. It's different than satisfaction. You can be satisfied with your work, you can be making a lot of money and have a great pension, but absolutely hate the work that you're doing. That satisfaction is different Engagement's like I am inspired to come to work, I love what I'm doing, I'm putting in the extra effort because I want to. And so this organization did surveys and we did hundreds of surveys. We did onboarding surveys, we did exit surveys, we did engagement surveys, we did pulse surveys and I moved through the organization, through different roles and in the end ended up becoming a consultant, because it was really interesting to see how these same factors all had some part to play in whether we enjoy our work or not. And and despite the fact that there's consistencies like leadership and work life balance and all of these things, every culture is very nuanced. So it's it. You can't just say, oh, picture leadership stuff, like there's specific stuff around leadership in a culture that needs to be fit. So it's been interesting, like it was a really interesting time there, and when I left I basically just put that lens on everything I did. I was a leader for a little while and I thought, oh, let's test everything I learned as a leader to see if it works. And sure enough, you know you apply all the principles you learn and you know we had a great turnaround on a digital team. I worked as a software delivery manager and I'm not technical at all, so that's pretty sad, but it showed that I didn't have to be technical, because if you pull out the right leadership skills, you can inspire and motivate your people. So you know. So it's become a part of who I am.
Speaker 2:I did end up in a layoff last June. I was working for a crime corporation who had a layoff, and so it was a bit of a time for self reflection. Like what do I want to do with my life? I'm getting a little bit older. Should I consider this entrepreneur track? I kind of had my foot in two in two piles do I want to get a job, or do I want to do my own company? And so I launched stay, and stay is all about the whole. The whole concept of stay is about retaining your talent. Like what do you have to do to inspire your talent so you can keep them? And it's not just about keeping them, because you don't want to keep uninspired people right you want to keep the right people, and if they're not, inspired?
Speaker 2:why are they not? Inspired is it them or is it the organization like what's like, what's going on there, right? So, um so, stay exists to help organizations basically figure that stuff out, and so I really enjoy helping organizations dig deep to figure out what's going on within their cultures.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. I love that so much. I think it's such an important thing. I think because we throughout, I think the course of the last six or seven years especially, there's just been so much disruption within our own day-to-day lives that workplace cultures, it's like it's where work is where we spend the majority of our time throughout the week Right, and it's sometimes it's like that is where we want and need stability. However, if we're coming to a place that we aren't finding inspiration or we have a ton of turnover all of a sudden, that's just one more factor into disruption, which then leads into a lack of production and a number of other things that I'm sure we'll get into here soon.
Speaker 1:But it's such an important work, um that we're doing right now, or that you're doing, um to what we're seeing out there in the workforce right now. So I'm kind of curious in all of the years of experience that you've had doing this, what is the most significant shift that you've seen in workplace motivation, especially in fast paced industry? So you know, in our community, together Digital, it's a lot of women in tech and advertising which are very kind of high pressured. You know 60, sometimes 70 hours a week jobs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny. It's funny thinking back. She was like in your 30 years. If I go back 30 years, arc wasn't a thing, fang wasn't a thing.
Speaker 2:Stem we didn't talk about that. Like tech wasn't a thing when I started working, like we were there's going to be a lot of when I was growing up. There's a lot of that Because it was. It's just like there's going to be a lot of when I was growing up. It's just like it's. It's a different world. Like it's absolutely insane how much things have changed since I started working in 1992. I was really excited because my first job was with an NHL team and I just thought that was like, like, if Fang was cool back then, that was cool, right. So I love that. It was a great first. It was a great first opportunity. But, like one thing, like there's a few, a lot of things that have changed.
Speaker 2:But I think, when it comes to motivation, the biggest shift I've seen is the flip from focusing on extrinsic motivation. So things like money promotions yeah, like that, those tangible carrots, money promotions like that, those tangible carrots. Dan Pink, if you've read his book Drive, he talks about carrots and sticks like extrinsic motivators. Carrots and sticks, right, and that was the only focus back in in the day, if you will. And over the years, like, and more and more and more, we're hearing a lot more about intrinsic motivation, and intrinsic motivation it all comes from within us. And again, if I can quote Dan Pink, things like autonomy, mastery, purpose, sense of belonging these are the things that really make people connect to their work, and people long to connect to something.
Speaker 2:This is why you see people who play video games for 15 hours a day just want to get better and better at it, right? Or why do you take up an instrument or people who contribute to Wikipedia, like, why are you giving them your free mind share? It's because you want to be part of something bigger. So it's a huge shift. It's completely different than how it was, like when I first started. Working was a very command and control. You do your work, you listen to your manager. Flexibility meant you could start five minutes late, like there was no flexibility, right, it's just so. Seeing this shift and seeing this shift in motivation has been like super inspiring for me. It's really interesting to see how much things have changed. I'm super curious to see how things change in the next 20 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I very much agree, and I think you almost see that dichotomy even playing out within companies, corporations, and then within, like leadership teams and like incoming talent, oftentimes because they think they've got whatever they've got in spades but they don't realize like they're dangling the wrong carrot and I do. David Pink is great, great author.
Speaker 2:Good recommendation. The only exception to intrinsic motivator, I think, are salespeople, so I think salespeople are genuinely driven by it.
Speaker 1:Wired a little different there, but even so, I think. But even so, some of the best salespeople I think out there are the ones that do truly believe in what they're selling. You know, it's not just about like gaming and making the most and winning the most. I mean, that is a, that is a part of it.
Speaker 2:But at the end of the day, the ones that even excel right, yeah, even in sales, even though it's money, money, money, it's not. Is it money or is it better than everybody else? And I'm winning, and I'm you know right more going on there's a little bit something deeper there, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Now, this is. These are all great points and I agree, I think it's it's there's got to be this kind of reckoning or a little bit of a level setting or, you know, companies understanding that, those intrinsic motivators and how important they actually are, but then also realizing it's like it's not just achieved with a happy hour and it's also like understanding like people.
Speaker 2:I hate I hate the word soft skills and eq and all of this talk about that like like as a shrewd business person, even if you don't give a crap about your people like, let's say, you are just a narcissistic individual who only wants their own success you need to care about your people because if you build into your people and you inspire your people, that is when your business is going to be successful. It's you know so. So even for those who aren't like I hate, I hate thinking that way. But you know what 17% of CEOs are narcissists, so I hate thinking that way. But you know what 17% of CEOs are narcissists, so you know. Call it like it is 5% of the population narcissists 17% of CEOs.
Speaker 1:I don't know why I'm laughing. I shouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 2:You got to talk to their business sense and so it does make strong. It's good human thing to do, but it also makes really good business sense to care about inspiring your people. They will drive business results.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I love that. Well, you know again, we. You pulled it out, you started, you started, you started it. So, like the whole data, I loved, loved data and so how. I'm curious. You said 17% of CEOs are narcissists, 5% of the population are. It's like okay, how has your approach to data-driven decision-making evolved over the last 12 years in HR and culture? Like these kinds of insights, I think are actually really important. Right to bringing certain things to light to help people understand. How else would you build upon that?
Speaker 2:Love data. Data is like. I have been interested in data for as long as I can remember. It's factual, it's objective. You can trust it. When I was in my early days, I studied marketing.
Speaker 2:I couldn't do digital marketing now because I don't have a single digital marketing skill, but back in the day it was more about market research and human behavior. So I did a lot of surveying. I mean I remember doing a study with one of the banks about whether people like their cafeteria food. I mean it was early surveying but it exposed me early to like the voice of people and how strong and how important it is to listen to the voice of your people. And so as long as I can remember, that's been an interest and so it evolved over the years. I think I remember I think I talked to you about social committees. So we do little surveys with social committees.
Speaker 2:What kind of event would you prefer?
Speaker 2:Would you like a boat cruise?
Speaker 2:Would you like a Christmas party? Would you like a golf tournament? You know you do those simple surveys and then I remember evolving a little bit and maturing my surveys a little bit and then when I actually got to the engagement shop I learned like that you could actually use data to measure motivation and it's not something I would have considered, but if you play into the human psychology and what drives human behavior and the research lens, it actually was a really perfect fit that I just didn't see when I was in school, right? So I think, as it's evolved. So in the engagement shop I learned about the surveys and the data and that was important and inspired need to understand just what the different factors are that impact employee experience and employee engagement. But as I've evolved, I've I've probably implemented a lot more qualitative data.
Speaker 2:So, like I think, I still think surveys are amazing. I think you need them. I think you, you, you got to be careful with them. If you don't action them, people get really mad. People talk about survey fatigue, but there's no such thing as survey fatigue. It's a lack of action fatigue. You can ask me every day for my opinion. I'm going to keep giving you my feedback. People are going to stop giving you their feedback if you don't do anything with it.
Speaker 1:Exactly. What's the point if you're not going to listen?
Speaker 2:Right. So from the day to queen, I'm telling you right now, if you're not going to action, whatever it is you're asking, just don't, yes, don't, don't do it. Um, but then you've got like the power of interviews and focus groups and that became really interesting. So I started doing a lot more of that and I think at this point in my life I think I've done probably over 1500 stay interviews, exit interviews, and it's like just so fascinating when you talk to people, people always like how do you get people to talk? I'm like well, just ask some questions.
Speaker 2:It's actually not that hard if you show a genuine interest, like people know, if you're genuine. So if you're, just if you're, you know you've got your paper and you're reading your questions and you're making notes and you're not engaged, like people are not going to give you the real them. So there's got to always be this sort of genuine interest and I'm I am a curious person. I ask why I asked the next, why I asked the next, why? And I find when you do that you don't actually put people on the spot, because if you're engaged, like they actually want to talk, and when people start sharing their lived experiences, it's you know, it's not like like, oh, I never get.
Speaker 2:I know, no one ever pays attention to my work. It's like well, what makes you like? What makes you say that? Well, you know, when I did this project for my boss, um, I didn't get any feedback. Oh, what kind of feedback would you have liked? Right? So you just the deeper you dig, the more you get to know what the real root of these problems are, and then you can sort of theme the qualitative themes, combine them with the data and you've got a really good picture of what you need to do to improve, you know, workplace, make it a good workplace right.
Speaker 1:I love it, I love it. I think that's so important too. You know, I think it's one of those things. You know, surveying feels like such a great, blanketed way to reach so many people, but how many companies don't sit down and talk to until it's exit interview time to people and do what you just said there, which is ask why and then ask why again and ask why again or what, what, what? You just kind of ask the one question and take the answer for what it is and you don't go deeper.
Speaker 1:I love that advice. That's great, that's fantastic. Oh, such a good stuff. And I love that idea of data to measure motivation. That's another rabbit hole I could go down. But for the sake of time and live listening audience, don't forget, you can always ask questions too. But that's definitely got me curious. Let's see, we often hear about the importance of company culture. Obviously, let's see, we often hear about the importance of company culture. Obviously, we know, we know it's important. In your view, what is the relationship between culture and motivation? And I would want to ask this from the lens of particularly for women in male dominated fields, because I think when we're asking this as ladies, deep down we kind of know why we're asking this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think you know culture. Culture means different things to different people. So I talk about culture. It's the way we do things right, it's the way people naturally do things. So, you know, we have cultures within our cities, we have cultures within our homes, we have cultures within our churches and we have cultures within our organizations, and sometimes organizations are very intentional about culture and sometimes homes. We have cultures within our churches and we have cultures within our organizations, and sometimes organizations are very intentional about culture and sometimes they're not. It doesn't mean they don't have a culture, right. So you pick up the way people do things.
Speaker 2:A good example like in culture can change overnight too. Yeah, think about elon musk taken over twitter. Right, like, like, I didn't think it was possible to screw up an organization case study, but guess what you can't right. So culture, like culture is the collective, like what you're seeing going on around you, and it influences you, it can motivate you, it can demoralize you. So why is that important for women or any diverse yes, you know populations? Like, if you think of we have an inclusive culture, if we have an inclusive culture, when you look at senior leadership, you see Black women. So if you're an employee in a company where you see Black women in leadership, you think, huh, maybe I can be a Black woman in leadership and it inspires. On the other hand, if all you see are middle-aged white men across the entire organization and you're a person of color or a woman or a young person or neurodivergent or whatever your difference is, that's going to be demoralizing because you're going to think I don't fit in here, right? So this is where the uh, the concept of inclusive cultures are really important.
Speaker 2:Empower, you know, cultures that can empower, uh, a personal sense of accomplishment are also very powerful. Right, that's for and that's for for anybody, but I think specifically for women. Like in male, like stem, science, tech, engineering. You know like it's hard to find women interested Like I. Just I don't know why it is, but women just don't go into those trades as much. Is it because they see that people aren't in those trades, like as a young kid you don't see a bunch of people Like you're just, is it influence, is it nature? Is it nurture? I don't know what the answer is to that. I feel like if we saw more representation, we might actually see more people, more women, go into like sciences and engineering, right, yeah?
Speaker 1:No, I definitely agree. There is absolutely something to the see it be it factor, but I think what's absolutely key excuse me moment there what is absolutely key to what you just said there, kelly, though, is and I don't know if everybody expected that answer or not, or they were really noticing it as much as maybe I did in the moment, but when I said how would you define culture, you said the way you do things. You didn't say your mission or your talk, the way you talk your voice. You didn't say the words on your walls. You know all that bullshit that they put up to say like this is who we are, this is what we do, what we are and what we do it is it's not the talk, it's the walk, it's it's the systems that you put into place to create a space for inclusion. So, if you say you're inclusive, then you create inclusion by by executing it, not by saying it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. If you need to put it on the walls, it's because you've forgotten what you're supposed to be doing, and that's a problem.
Speaker 1:Agreed, agreed, agreed. I love that so much. I love your definition is spot on. It is absolutely the way you do things and it goes down to all of your processes, from onboarding to people exiting, to just like even your day-to-day stuff, and to people exiting, to just like even your day to day stuff. And it's like how many. How often have you really looked at your, what you think is your culture, and then said, okay, well, this is our desired culture and this is the way we're doing things? How are those things?
Speaker 2:matching up. It's interesting to say that, like I get, I get really frustrated with values exercises. I think they're really important, important if you actually use them.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like all these organizations that seem to pick from 30 or 40 words and their one word values integrity. It's like really that's your value. Yeah, you've got to tell people that it's like really, that's not like a baseline expectation. You have to promote integrity. A customer is the one that gets me the most right because, like, customer focus is, like, obviously super important. But I worked for an organization that said that they were customer focused but they had, like if you were a customer calling in, there was like 15 different systems that you have throughout what you were doing, like it was just it was not a good customer experience. So calling yourself customer focused was kind of like a load of crap. But then you look at an organization like zappos and I love zappos because they are textbook, that's what you do for culture, like you live your values and for them, customer focus they they called it like delivering wow service and I haven't. It's like they don. They don't sell them to Canada anymore, probably because they can't deliver wow service would be my guess. But when they did, deliver.
Speaker 2:I remember calling them. I ordered a pair of shoes online, came in at the wrong size and I should have known better. I knew I was a six and a half. I bought the six. It was stupid, me, anyway. So I called them and on the first ring somebody answers. They're like okay, all of a sudden, that's weird. Right, I tell them about my little situation and they said well, what size do you need? So they send me the shoes and they say when you get a minute, send the other ones back. Right, like you know, we'll send you, we'll send you a poster thing so you can like, don't have to read those shipping charges.
Speaker 2:I was like, wow, and I did. That's what I said. Wow. And I'm like, oh, I love that and I love the story about how good they are what they do, and I use that when I talk to organizations about their values. I'm like don't make it a value if it's not really value. And then people talk about aspirational values. I hate like it's not if it's not, if you, you're not doing it, it's not part of your culture.
Speaker 2:So like I don't know, it's, it's and I can, I can understand cultures wanting to evolve and change into better things, but I think you kind of can't claim it until you are.
Speaker 1:Right, I agree, I agree. Yeah, you, you've got to be making the strides and doing the things before. Yeah, I agree, I agree, wholeheartedly. So much Hence getting all choked up. I was like, ah, I'm going to get on a soapbox.
Speaker 1:I feel this all so much because I think it is a great, just cautionary tale for those who are on the job seeker market right now, especially for those who are in those marginalized spaces that don't feel always comfortable, seeing hurt and valued and are extra cautious when they're looking, because they want to walk into spaces where they just aren't going to fall into those kinds of traps and they want to work for the kinds of companies that they are aligned to.
Speaker 1:Because, you know, as we're talking about intrinsic motivation, that's what people are wanting. So, yeah, we're talking about not just retention but for recruitment and people can see through that they've got that bs meter on and just because you have those words on the walls, guys, it's not, it's not going to necessarily, it's not going to necessarily pan out if you're not living them out. So if you're going to put them on the walls, you better really actually be living them and better, yet right, like people know when people are being disingenuous like don't prideful your people right and then, honestly, at the end of the day too, it's like I think people are smart enough nowadays too.
Speaker 1:It's like you don't even put them on the walls, like I should just be able to walk in and feel it and see it and look around the room and know ahead of time, like you even said, like I mean, I know zappos kind of puts it out there, but like the fact that you even stated it without even realizing it is so, so funny.
Speaker 2:It's like spot on and I didn't know that about them at the time. Like I read about, like that was like years probably before I even knew much about engagement. And then when I discovered all these things about culture, I'm like, oh, this is cool, I remember these guys, like they did love it yeah, it's all in the execution.
Speaker 1:It sounds silly and I feel like it's something that companies still make that mistake of just thinking it's like this very top of the you know funnel or you know top of the leadership type of exercise and somehow it'll just trickle down. It's like, no, you got to drill all the way down. All right, let's get into this whole aspect of working remote and hybrid, cause I mentioned that earlier in the intro as well. So another thing that we're a lot of us are kind of working through and dealing with as leaders right now how does this new work landscape impact motivation and what strategies have you seen work? Well, cause there are some out there that I hear about, but I'm like, oh God, hallelujah, I don't work. I mean, I work for myself. So obviously I'm not going to be. I'm holding up my mouse. Nobody can see, that's on listening to the podcast, but, like I've heard, there's mouse trackers to track how often you have moved your mouse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's just. There's no trust there, right. Like the remote thing, work is killing me, right? So I thought, like COVID pushed workforce future of work. It pushed it forward like 20 years and in like overnight. It was crazy, right, like nobody was working. Very few people were working remotely pre-COVID, and then we discovered really quickly that we could, and then people started to really like it for lots of different reasons, right, I'm a huge fan of remote work.
Speaker 2:Besides the time savings, my commute used to be 90 minutes each way. That's an hour and a half a day. Like that's a lot of time to get back into your day. It saves you oodles of cash and right now the economy is scary, so every penny you can put back in your pocket, that's important. I think it's an amazing equalizer for parent uh, for working parents, specifically women, because we know, despite the fact that men have started to pick up their socks a little bit, yeah, the caregiving skill primarily falls on the woman. So remote work equalizes, like it really levels the playing field, right? Um, it's great for the environment, it's great for flexibility and I believe flexibility is the future of work and for employers, it gives them their rank of talent. So to me, like remote work is like the second coming right. I love it, um, and I think when you tie it to motivational theory, it really it really comes into that whole flexibility and autonomy, like working my way, me getting to choose how I do my work, my flex hours, like I think it it that builds trust in people and it helps make them feel valued. So I think there's a really positive link between remote work, hybrid work too, I guess, to a certain degree, and like inspiration and motivation, I think they tie together.
Speaker 2:But there's a dark side, there's a shadow side to it as well, and that is, um, work life can become a blur for some people. Uh, you're always on, like you're just, you're just always on it, right, I live in an apartment, so I remote work all the time, and so at the end of the day, my husband was like you need to leave the house. Like you, like you have a week, you need to get out of the house. Like you, like you have a house all week, you need to get out of the house and you get in your. You can get in your own head about that kind of stuff, right? Um, I also think it can impact, sense of belonging, um, and sense of belonging again is is a huge motivator for a lot of people. But I think there's ways to offset these things. I think there's things organizations can do to, you know, fill the gaps. I think being really intentional and again, this is another the drag is it's more pressure on leaders.
Speaker 1:So leaders you're already.
Speaker 2:Your job's already hard Remote work. It's going to make it just a little bit harder now Because you need to be managing with enablement, autonomy and empowerment. You do not want to be tracking mouse clicks. That's not going to be tracking mouse clicks. That's not going to inspire not going to inspire anybody.
Speaker 2:Now, it means you have to set very clear expectations, right. What is it that you expect your people to accomplish during the day? What does a smart goal look like? Right, be really specific about the outcomes that you're expecting. And if you're clear about the outcomes and you're coaching people, people through them, and then they win, they feel this tremendous sense of accomplishment which, when validated with rewards and recognition and like, hey, I'm affirming that you did the right thing, it just inspires people exponentially, right. So, very clear, very clear goal setting. Like, people do not do well in ambiguity, they don't, right? And if you, how can you rate anybody's performance if it's subjective? Again, data. You need the data to validate your biases, right, because we're full of the. We're full of bias, right. So, um, you know, clear goal setting takes the subjectivity out of sense of accomplishment and then people can really feel that.
Speaker 2:So I think, um, they also need to prioritize communication, like like, not like weird touchy-feely micromanaging check-ins, but like, hey, let's meet as a team and like, share a meal together. I've had, like I've had an organization the organization I'm I'm supporting right now uh, whenever a new employee starts and we're all remote, they send us each an Uber eats voucher and we all get our little, whatever we want, and we hang out for an hour and welcome the person to the organization while we're eating. It's so different, right. There's different ways to to create a community, right?
Speaker 2:The thing to remember, too, is is some in some, what becomes challenging? If you have a high number of engineers or scientists in your organization, there's like a preference for introversion. So how do you find a way to to engage introverts without doing this to them? Because, right, doing a lot of this can really suck the energy right out of them. So you've got to be so. Maybe then camera off makes more sense. Maybe then you're doing some kind of gamification so that it's not like, uh, draining the person. So you really got to know your people. I think is the other thing that you need to think about. So it's not a one size fits all plan. We're all different and what inspires us is different, so that really falls on the leader to figure out, like, the differences for the people on their team, which is why I recommend that most like hopefully, managers don't manage teams much bigger than eight people, because it's really hard to get teams get bigger, right, agreed, agreed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I always felt that way as well as I was leading teams and I mean luckily I was never more than maybe six or so because it is, I think it is important to get to kind of understand and know, and for me it was always creatives and so it was always for me at least it was really important to understand how they were intrinsically motivated and how they were shaped and either motivated or demotivated by certain types of and ways of receiving feedback, demotivated by certain types of and ways of receiving feedback, because creatives like they're so sometimes precious about their work and if they could shut you down, you know, or be very resistant about, like what they're receiving in the way of feedback, and it's like you really want them to be buying in and moving the work along based on what they're being given in the way of feedback.
Speaker 1:And sometimes it's just in the delivery that can make the difference. And I don't think people quite understand that little bit of extra time to get to know the individual and how they work and how they prefer, what their communication preferences are, how they like to receive feedback. It doesn't mean that you change the feedback, it's just the delivery.
Speaker 2:You know, at the end of the day, that's where leadership has changed so much. Like when I was younger, your leader didn't give two crops about what inspired you or how you wanted to get recognition, or they would not even give you recognition. Right, it's all crap. What is all this stuff you're talking about? It's ridiculous. Like just come to work to your job and get, yeah, that's, that's what work is all about. Um, so it's. It is funny that now it's almost like we need leaders to become psychologists. Right, yeah, they're coaches. Coaches, I would agree with coaches.
Speaker 1:We're like, honestly, like it's a it's almost like we need leaders to become psychologists, right yeah? Or coaches.
Speaker 2:Coaches I would agree with coaches. We're like, honestly, like it's a it's, we're putting a lot, we're putting a lot on leaders.
Speaker 1:We are, and I honestly would love to see that I had that epiphany a while back of like gosh. It would be so cool to do that, like to just go and talk and tour around different companies and just talk about that and help coach middle managers to just become that coaches like really understand, like you've done the job, you know the role and you're not the one doing and executing anymore. You are the one leading and coaching them to that next phase. And it's like if you're not a good coach, then you don't really belong in the leadership role. You should just still be doing the doing and there's absolutely nothing wrong with staying in your craft and doing the doing, and not everybody should be a people leader I'll tell you it happens especially in tech like, yes, brilliance, right, people promote brilliance.
Speaker 2:And so these brilliant people who have always been individual contributors and rewarded for their brilliance and their hard work, now they're like hey, do you want to be work? Now they're like hey, do you want to be a leader? And they're like I guess it's the next step on the career ladder. I guess I should say yes, and then you throw them in this. It's like all, and now it's not about you at all, it's about everybody else. Yeah, so I always think, like in any organization, you should do like a precursor before you put anybody into leadership thing. So you think you can lead and then, being very like, you know you're gonna, your focus is going to shift from you to others. These are all the expectations we're going to have in you as a leader. Are you sure you want to sign up for this?
Speaker 1:because, like, it's not for everybody right, it's not, and I think too, the ways you're talking about motivation, and I realize it's not like one of the intrinsic and it's more of the like external factors, but I think part of it is, like you said, people who have these gifts and talents, as like, say, a developer. This is a great example. My brother-in-law falls exactly into this and I think I've shared this example before. Great, you know, developer.
Speaker 1:He actually collaborates well with a lot of others too, which is I can see why they thought maybe they should, you know, give him a full team but at the end of the day, like, he deals with a lot of other stress and anxiety in and outside of work and he's just not a people leader. But it's like, okay, but they dangle a title and a salary in front of you and but then when you stay in your craft, oftentimes companies don't build what that extended, extended career looks like. So then it looks like okay, the only way to move up or ahead is to stay, is to kind of go into this place where I go outside of myself and my natural skills, talents and abilities and get this other job that isn't me. So he actually took, he took the job in the role, took the salary, took the pay rate or the promotion. Didn't even make it six months and just basically was like take the money back, take the title back.
Speaker 2:I don't want any of it, right it's a weird mind shift too, like and and there's so much pressure like I think, like LinkedIn. I have a lot of hate relationship with LinkedIn, yeah, but because what happens on LinkedIn is it's like all this positioning right I'm making a million dollars as an entrepreneur. Everybody quit your jobs and become an entrepreneur. Not every entrepreneur is going to make a million dollars. And the promotions oh, I got a new title, I got a new title, I left this job and I got an extra $65,000.
Speaker 2:And everybody just thinks that everybody's just careers are flying and massive salaries and these big titles and like five minutes, right, it's a really great. It's not like that. That's just not how it works. Not that nobody's getting promoted, but nobody gets promoted that fast with those big, those big salary increases. So I think there's so much pressure on the this generation to, yes, fall into that framework that they want to know what's my next, what's my next step, what's my next step? Where it's like, okay, like if you really wanted to make a lot of money, you know, maybe you should have decided to be an investment banker.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's other ways to make money.
Speaker 2:Your personality better than leadership. Right. Like, maybe this wasn't the track you should have gone in at all and maybe the next step in career progression is a completely different career? Right, because if it's not leadership and you don't want that right. Like you got to check yourself a little bit too. Like, and I think people got to own their own careers and stop expecting organizations to have these perfect little career paths. Yes, at some point you're gonna. You're gonna hit a wall. Right, I'm in a wall. Like I do this really weird niche stuff. I'm an employee engagement culture expert. Like, where do I get promoted?
Speaker 1:Right, Like my next step.
Speaker 2:There's not one right Like. So if I don't like what I'm doing or what I'm earning at this date of my career, then I have to think about what kind of shift I want to make right. And as leaders, I think you also have to manage the expectations of your people. So sometimes your expectations are real and you can help them achieve their goals and you can coach them up, and sometimes it's like, yeah, well, I want to be a VP in two weeks, like okay, not gonna happen.
Speaker 2:Let's just have a chat about that. Like you know, you can, you can, you know, run a 5k that doesn't make you a marathon runner the next day, right, and then that doesn't make you a professional athlete. You need to understand the steps to get to where you need to go.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, go ahead. Sorry, you made so many good points there, so many good points, kelly. I think it's such a good moment for those who are listening to really reflect, as they kind of are looking to and moving into and through the leadership space. It's like I had somebody ask me this, like I've been, that I've been that girl for since I was a kid, like natural born sort of leader, always kind of creating little groups and clubs. And you know, when we ever there's ever like an occasion for somebody to just be kind of voluntold to do something as the leader, it's always me. And so she was like Amy, do you even want to lead? And I was like, ah, nobody's ever even asked me that, you know. And so it's one of those things like I think it is always good to be asking yourself and being curious, because at the end of the day, I think understanding where your values lie and where you want to move ahead and move forward will help you make better, smarter choices, so that you don't end up in a place where you get to what you think you thought was what was going to make you happy, only to learn that you're not. So for me it's like, yeah, an entrepreneurship, wonderful thing, amazingly fulfilling.
Speaker 1:I gave myself my title of its CEO, but it's chief empowerment officer. And yeah, I'm not. I'm no longer focused on climbing any particular ladder, because the ladder is mine. I am building it as I go and, yeah, I'm not like making the six figure salary. I was as a creative director in advertising, but I'm serving a higher purpose. I'm leaving a legacy because, for me, those are bigger parts of my values and I'm leveraging all my gifts. But that's you know, it's different for everybody and I agree with you, kelly don't go down that rabbit hole of comparing yourself to everyone on LinkedIn or Instagram. Take some time and space for yourself and figure that out it absolutely is, and then this will help you, I think, as well.
Speaker 1:Right as you understand this as an individual and you've done this work for yourself, maybe look to your team if you are a leader and then help them work through that process, because when you do have a new coming in two weeks and say I want to be VP of whatever you can be, why, what is it about this role? So then you're helping guide them in a more authentic, value-aligned way, so they're not kind of blindly going into this whole thing and sacrificing 14 years of their career, chasing down maybe the wrong title and opportunity.
Speaker 2:For the wrong reasons, right yeah.
Speaker 1:For the wrong reasons, which leads to things like burnout, right. So it's a significant issue obviously within many industry, including ours, and we know it obviously manifests very differently for everyone. So I'm kind of curious, outside of, maybe, these kinds of conversations, how could leaders become more attuned to various signs of burnout within their teams and what strategies do you recommend for addressing them in all the various forms that we see them?
Speaker 2:I mean burnouts. Like the burnout is real, right, like people are. They're still tired from covid, right? Uh, some people have some pretty big mental health fallout from from the pandemic. Um, I think we've got like the stress of some a lot.
Speaker 2:Like a lot of companies are mandating their people back to the office. It's like we go right, that is to me like taking away something that is so coveted and privileged, like to me it's like saying to an employee well, the market's really bad right now, so if you tried to leave, you'd get a lot less money, so I'm going to cut your salary. You know how inspiring would that be? How unmotivating is that. You're taking away something that's really valuable to me, right, like that means the reality is there's not that many remote companies, like fully remote companies. I think I read there's like 15 percent, so it's not a lot. There was a lot more before. But people are calling back. The problem with that is they're going to pay for that decision. They are Because in 10 years from now, everybody who can be remote will be remote because the workforce will demand it, but for now, people are burned out because their bosses are asking a lot more of them.
Speaker 2:There's all these layoffs, right, so people are laid off. So those people are stressed. And the people who are left behind are also stressed because, a they have survival skills and, b now they have a lot more work to do because there's less people to do the same amount of work. People are stressed there. There's the infinite amount of whatever is happening at home issues, you know, children, caregivers, grief, cancer, divorce, like whatever your life is throwing at you like it is really stressful out there. I think, like most people at one point in their life are going to need some kind of short term disability leave for their mental health. I think that's stress leave is real, like it's happening. And as a leader like you can't do much about what's happening in someone's personal life, right, but you can be aware.
Speaker 2:So I think like a big thing for me is recognizing the signs of burnout means paying attention, and sometimes it's really obvious. It's like if you have an employee who was always really gung ho and now they're not gung ho, like oh, that's interesting. I wonder what's going on with that, right? Or you know they're getting increasingly negative or cynical. Or you know, all of a sudden they're taking more time off because they're getting, you know headaches or whatever.
Speaker 2:I think paying attention to those cues should be the first indicator that something's going on with your employee. What can you do about it? You got to be careful about it Because, like again, you're not the therapist, right, you're not there to solve their home problems or whatever. But at work there are things, very, very real things, that you can do. So if you have established a relationship of trust with this employee and hopefully all leaders have prioritized that, and building trust is like three podcasts of chats, right, but I mean, building trust is fundamental for a strong, inspiring relationship. So if you've got the trust, then you'd be able to have those open conversations Like hey, I've noticed you've been blah, right, is everything okay? And then hopefully the employee feels like, oh, you know, I've just got so much going on. And then you can work with the employee.
Speaker 2:Everyone's an individual, everyone's going to need something different. So it's like, okay, like would you benefit from a couple of mental health days with that? Like, would that help? You know, maybe we can flex your hours so that you know you have time to go to your son's baseball game or whatever, right? I think it's a matter of meeting the employee where they're at figuring out what it is that can help them and seeing if you can enable that as much as you possibly can. Some things are going to be out of your control, but that might be the time where you do recommend a stress leave. Hey, like we have short-term disability benefits, go talk to your doctor, take care of yourself. Your job will be here, you know when you get back. Your job will be here, you know when you get back. And it's prioritizing their mental health over your needs as a leader, right.
Speaker 1:That can be hard to do yeah, we got to call it that term for our US listeners because you're in Canada, right, Kelly? So, like that term here is not as common as you would think, it's much more common in the UK and Canada. Stress leave is essentially yes, folks, you can apply, talk to your therapist and get short term disability leave for mental health. I first heard this it wasn't until like probably 2010. I was, and it was because we had been living in the UK and a friend of ours- very different employment standards.
Speaker 2:I'm learning how fortunate we are here.
Speaker 1:Like like correct the leads, oh God. Yeah, yeah, we're lucky to get six weeks. If that ridiculous, it's sad, it's pathetic that could be a whole, nother crazy down there. Come on up yeah.
Speaker 2:A whole nother conversation. I know Right.
Speaker 1:A whole nother conversation. Depending on how things go in November, it might be Kelly Um but yeah, seriously it is.
Speaker 1:It's, it's. It was mind boggling to me, right, because he had been going through, he had like a history of some mental health issues and they were kind of creeping up on him again. And I was talking to his wife my friend at the time and she's like, oh, yeah, yeah, so, and so he's on stress leave. I was like Wait, wait, wait, what, what's this In six weeks? I'm like wait, I didn't get that much time to go to have my baby. Stress leave, tell me more. And she's like, well, he just got a note from his doctor and he's taking time paid time off. So they don't get full paid time off.
Speaker 2:I shouldn't overplay it Like short term disability is usually like half your pay or whatever, but I mean it's usually a short term period for you to sort of get your head together.
Speaker 1:To take care of yourself.
Speaker 2:What a lot of people end up doing when they do their short-term disability is they're looking for other work, right? Because often they realize the source of their stress is actually their job Right?
Speaker 1:Their job Exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean yeah, Doesn't mean you want what's best for your people, and if what's best for your people is for them to leave, then that's not a bad thing.
Speaker 1:Right, because they're not living, they're not probably being you know, they're not being as productive or contributing to their maximum, because they aren't happy. And it's like if you can't help that, control that or change that, then yeah, let them go and find somebody who's going to be the right fit. And then also, yeah, I loved your note about how that stress can manifest physically Sick days, headaches, migraines, other kind of undefined pain and things like that. You know, just being aware of how it shows up in your body is also important. All right, folks keep an eye on the chat, so if you have questions, let us know. Kelly, could you share an example of a counterintuitive insight about motivation that often surprises you with your clients? That they're like this is how we motivate people and you're like facepalm.
Speaker 2:I think the first thing is that you can't motivate someone Right. You can't inject motivation into someone. Motivation comes from within.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It's personal, it's deeply, deeply personal, um, and you can't like, think about your kids, do your homework? Yeah, good luck. Is that your? You think you're really inspiring them, right, like, like you know, like it's got to come, it's got to come from within. That said, as a leader and organizations, you can set the conditions that enable motivation, as we talked about, autonomy, mastery, purpose, all of those things. But you know it'll empower people to tap into their own drive, but it doesn't guarantee that it will, because not like I have, I know people purpose, autonomy, mastery, don't care. I go to work, I get a paycheck, I get a job, yeah, I work to live. I don't live to work. And some people, just like you, can't assume everyone's passionate and motivated and has dreams and desire, percent right, and we have to respect that. So you can't, you can't make it happen is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's great advice, that's a fantastic answer. I love it. Technology, obviously, I mean I could throw in the word ai, because it's like you can't not say the word AI in any conversation right now. But that's one concern, obviously, as people are kind of working through technology changes within a multitude of industries, but outside of just that, other technological changes, how can leaders keep their teams motivated and engaged when skills become outdated so quickly? I mean, in our industry in particular, it feels like every other day there's a new tool out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's hard to stay on top of it. I think it's tough if you there are a lot of employers out there who haven't kept up with their tech stacks, and so, as long as you're there, and if they're not investing in growth, development and they're not changing their technology, your skills are going to become dead very quickly. So I think that's something to be mindful of. Like sometimes you don't think about it, right, like, oh, wait, a minute. I've spent 10 years with this organization. Now I'm completely and totally outskilled, right. So I think, um, you know, watch for that. I think the other thing is, you know organizations should be investing in people's growth and development. So, having career conversations with people like where do you want to grow? What do you? Like you know here's some skills you might need to develop to get into that next role. Let's work on an idp or an individual development plan. So you set some goals, you set some objectives and then you help people like grow those skills.
Speaker 2:I personally AI. Like I love AI. Like it has helped me write business plans. Like it is so smart. Like if you know how to use a good prompt, ai can change your life. Like I cannot believe the amount of hours it saves me. It's wild and I think we can't imagine how it's going to change things for us in the next 20 years, any more than when I was working at a record store in the 80s could I imagine that my music on my phone right and be free. Like what cds were 35 at the time and people were still buying vinyl singles for you know three bucks. You can't imagine what the future is going to hold, so I think you need to like, do your best to embrace it and not be afraid of it. Right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Oh, that I do I. I jotted down to when you were talking about personal and professional development. I love that job seekers ask that question. If you first of all, I'm just going to get on my like mini soapbox here and say when you're interviewing and you don't ask questions and return them there at the end of the interview and say do you have any questions, you're like Nope, you've answered everything. For me that's like a sorry, not hiring. I know that's really kind of harsh, but to me it's like you you didn't do homework on the company and you weren't. And if you did and we somehow answered everything.
Speaker 2:You weren't actively listening to anything to dig into a culture. There's just so many things like so many things so many things. The first thing you should be doing is checking out glass door and seeing what the world has to say about this brand and then you can use that to guide your interview. Hey, I read about blah blah blah Glassdoor. What do you think about? Are you accurate? What are you doing to combat Blah blah blah? I like it.
Speaker 1:Get them.
Speaker 2:No, you don't want to be an asshole, right?
Speaker 1:No, but I get to it, you're fine If you're like an antagonist in these things, and they're. I've done that where it's like I knew the company culture was not totally in alignment with some of my like beliefs, let's say. And so I was like, okay, listen, I know this is kind of really where a lot of you all sit in your leadership, but how much does this actually trickle down into how you do the work and who you do the work with? And I learned that that wasn't really the case and I said, well, that's fine, because I think from a moral standpoint we're all still aligned, so it's good.
Speaker 1:But I also think like there's a freebie question. If you don't have a question, just one you can ask is like do you have a budget for personal and professional development for your employees? You know it's such an important thing because I talked to so many women that come into together digital, that are investing in themselves for networking, personal professional development, which is fantastic, because they have a safe space where they can kind of ask those questions and not feel like any shame or guilt and they're not going to be judged for asking whatever they ask and they can learn what they want to learn and not worry about somebody watching what they're learning, judging what they're learning.
Speaker 2:You want to be careful with the assumptions about companies too. Like I have a friend, like I think they changed it recently, but in Ontario there was like anybody who was working for any kind of Ontario government institution they were capped at a 1% pay raise for three years. So if you walk in there and they give you whatever salary and your expectation is every year you're going to get some kind of increase, and then you find out you're only ever going to get one percent. About that, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1:research, research, research that's a great point, that's a definitely that's, that's definitely worth a watch out. But yeah, I think just that having that opportunity because when women come to us, oftentimes the thing I hear when I'm interviewing women coming to us and like why they found us and why they joined, is like I feel stuck. I feel stuck in my current job, I'm not moving ahead and, like you said, they don't have, you know, any type of growth plan or, you know, relationship with a boss or manager that's giving them that next step within their career. You know they feel like they're spinning their wheels or they don't feel like they have a sense of direction or purpose, you know, or they want to pivot into something different and they're not being given that guidance or support. And so, yeah, I think finding that is important because I think it seems to be a big part of job satisfaction and motivation.
Speaker 2:I think there's something to be said, though, about like when it comes to motivation. Like I said you, you can't motivate people. People have to be motivated by themselves. So people who just kind of expect that their leader is going to like, yes we're just going to do this career path like you've got to take ownership right of your own career.
Speaker 2:You own your own career and if you can't do what you want to do in your organization, it's okay to say I'm gonna cut my losses and take it. You know, go on my own. I think this is why you got so many entrepreneurs right and frustrated with, like, the politics of work.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, no, thank you for bringing it back to that, kelly, I 100%, wholeheartedly agree, you have to own it. I think we've got an episode a ways back that we talked about being the me of your career and really looking at your career as, like you are the ceo, like you are the company you are the ceo and you own your career path and trajectory.
Speaker 1:Don't leave it in the hands of some company that you're going to work for for three to five years, or maybe even less. In most cases nowadays, you have to take ownership. I agree, I love that good point.
Speaker 2:I'll be using that me-eo. I love it yeah isn't it great I loved loved it.
Speaker 1:All right, we okay, we still got a few more minutes. I'm going to go through these two questions real quick and then we'll see if we can get to our power on questions If we don't have any questions from our audience. You know, at this point we kind of all know that work-life balance is unattainable myth, especially for women. We talked about the stats there, obviously about work and home life. Could you share a little bit about how we could shift the conversation towards, maybe work life integration and if there's any strategies that you've seen others use to navigate those blurred lines between personal and professional life while trying to stay motivated?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and again, I think it's about ownership, I think this is about growth mindset, I think this is about us owning our lives and making the decisions that are smart for us, and so the first thing I would say is you need to set your priorities and you need to put in some boundaries to protect those priorities. So that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Like for me, making like I taught you earlier. I'm an empty nester. I have time now, but if I, like you know, like when I want to prioritize something, I always put it in my calendar yes.
Speaker 2:I want to work out and I want to make an hour a day to get a workout. I put it in my calendar and I protect it and everybody who knows me knows do not book a meeting over these workouts. She'll say no, right. So, like it's about you know, knowing what's important to you, prioritizing it and cutting out the noise right. And like people pleasers really have a hard time with that.
Speaker 2:But like, like people pleasers need like, if I was going to be developing something as a people pleaser, be learning not to please people so much, right it creates more pressure and on, yes, in an already very crazy, chaotic existence, it just creates that much more Right, yeah, and I also think like I can't reinforce the concept of movement enough.
Speaker 2:Like you don't need to go to the gym, you don't need to lift heavy weights, but move. Like if you sit behind your computer for eight hours a day and then you go and you hang out with your kids and you haven't like taken a break or gone for a walk, like it's going to impact everything. Like, yeah, a little bit of investment in yourself. Even if you're like doing a talking conference call I've seen more people do that among calls and people are walking. That's weird. Oh yeah, well, I guess we can. We're just having a chat, we're not like it's not a like a training session or something right? So, yeah, don't be afraid to do things that are a little bit out of the box. Take care of yourself.
Speaker 1:Change it up. No, and I wholeheartedly again agree with you about boundaries. And for those of you who do struggle with people, pleasing, just understand that there's a flip side. Boundaries for you benefits everybody. When you create boundaries for yourself, you can actually show up better for others because you've taken time for yourself to relax. And so if you're worried about letting other people down, keep saying yes and then watch yourself fizzle and burn out and then let everybody down because you are so burnt out and unable to deliver and honor your commitments because you've overcommitted yourself. And also, I've learned that by creating my boundaries and also like saying no to certain things forces some people within my family to have to show up and be competent and learn that they are competent and they don't need me for everything. So there's like a win, win for everyone when you hold your boundaries.
Speaker 1:Friends, all right, we're at the last minute. I'm going to go ahead and just jump into our power round questions. So, kelly, in one word, what is the biggest motivator for most employees? Winning, winning. I like it. Fill in the blank. The thing that every leader should do daily to motivate their team is Make them feel valued. I love it. I would agree. What is the most overrated perk that companies think motivates employees but actually doesn't?
Speaker 2:I know you're gonna think I say ping pong table, but I'm gonna say unlimited vacation.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, I talked to a guy a while back who told me that he did unlimited vacation and then they started just offering to pay people to go on vacation because it was that bad they wouldn't even take it then. So bad.
Speaker 2:Now there's a million reasons on the wall Like done well, it can be great, but very few companies do it well and it's become it. Yeah, it's interesting, maybe a challenge. It seems like it's not cool yeah.
Speaker 1:Last one, then if you could magically instill one habit in every leader to improve motivation, what would it be? Active listening leader to improve motivation. What would it be? Active listening Love it. This was great, kelly. Thank you so much. I hope everybody else walks away with some great new inspiration and ways in which they can start to work with and hopefully understand the intrinsic motivators of their team members so that they can start to find motivations within themselves right To start to work better and harder and find that sense of purpose and satisfaction in the work that they do. Thank you, kelly, so much for all of your work and for joining us for the hour.
Speaker 2:Yeah you're welcome.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely Thank you to all of our live listeners. We love having you here with us. We hope to see you all again next week.
Speaker 1:As we are talking to, who are we talking to next week? Let's see, I'm looking at my schedule and I'm not seeing on my notes. I think we just scheduled somebody last minute, so I will. Oh, we're talking to Pam. We're talking to Pam. We're going to be talking about um. I get it from him.
Speaker 1:She is a marketer who has just written some really great short, quick, easy, digestive books on AI for marketers that you could like kind of be like multitasking and looking at her books and testing out some of these prompts and tools for marketers. So we will members will share out the links to those books for so you can check them out if you want to take a look at them before we talk to her on Friday. But Pam will be with us next week in the Power Lounge, so I hope to see you all then. Everyone, until then, keep asking, keep giving and keep growing. We'll be with this next week in the Power Lounge, so I hope to see you all then. Everyone, until then, keep asking, keep giving and keep growing. We'll see you then. Bye, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la la la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la la, Produced by Heartcast Media.
