(#65) Creating unapologetic boundaries and say NO more often with The Nope Coach, Suzanne Culberg

Meet Suzanne Culberg,  The Nope Coach.

Suzanne is an author and coach who helps over-givers and people pleasers learn to set boundaries and say 'No' without feeling like a bitch.
She believes M is for mother, not for maid or martyr. And,we should be saying no more often.

We've become a world that's conditioned to being people pleasers, but we aren't pleased at all and only sacrifice ourselves for others. And she is done with that.

This episode will honestly help you create more confidence in yourself to say no and set firm boundaries in business and life and just learn to be more honest, truthful and open as to what you do and don’t want in life and as Suzanne says not be a bitch (or feel bad about it).

You’ll hear me literally breathe a sigh of relief as I relieve a childhood moment in which Suzanne’s explanation clears that burden of guilt and shame I had been carrying around!

If you’ve been struggling to say NO and and often find yourself bending over backwards to please and support others, at the detriment of your own sanity, health and wellbeing., then this episode will help you flip the script.

Give a shout out to Suzanne on the socials and my self with your favourite take away.


Suzanne’s offer for you:

🚧 Building Boundaries Bundle - normally $50AUD use the coupon code ANNA & grab it for free!

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Transcript

0:01

Hello, hello, and welcome to Alchemy Mindset. I'm your host, Anna Hasty, business mindset coach for women and a sound healer. If you are ready to become the most aligned, magnetic, and confident business woman you are worthy and deserving of being, visit Then this show is for you. This is where I share everything from mindset energy and spirituality And how to embody your future self in business and life Sprinkle that with deeply relaxing sound healings and meditations And you have the alchemy mindset podcast Hit subscribe so you always get the latest episode. Now let's begin. Hello, hello, dear listener, and welcome to episode 65, where I interview Suzanne Kohlberg, the NOPE coach. That's right, the NOPE. Coach. Suzanne is an author and coach who helps over givers and people pleasers learn to set boundaries and say no without feeling like a bitch. She believes M is for mother, not for maid or martyr, and we should be saying no more often. We've become a world that's conditioned to being people pleasers, but we aren't pleased at all and only sacrifice ourselves for others, and she's just done with that. This episode will honestly help you create more confidence in yourself to say no and set firm boundaries in business and life, and just learn to be more honest, truthful and open as to what you do and don't want in life. And as Suzanne says, not be a bitch about it. You'll hear me literally breathe a sigh of relief as I relive a childhood moment in which Suzanne's explanation clears that burden of guilt and shame that I've been carrying around for years. So if you've been struggling to say no, and often find yourself bending over backwards to please and support others at the detriment of your own sanity, health and well being, then this episode will help you flip that burden. Give a shout out to Suzanne on the socials and myself with your favorite takeaway. And Suzanne also offers you a really incredible Building Boundaries bundle and all the details are below, and she'll talk about it a little bit more at the end of this episode. So get ready, tune in and let's go. Let's hear what Suzanne, the NOPE coach has to say. Hello, hello, hello, Suzanne, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome to the Alchemy Mindset podcast. It's such a pleasure to have you here and to finally chat to you because as I said before, I feel like we've been set up, we've been set up by podcast editor. We're on a blind date. Yep. This is going to be fun. I know. It's going to be so much fun. A blind date. Yes. So we've been set up by our podcast editor. Libby works for you, is that right? She helps you out as well with your work. Um, she has in the past, she's made some reels for me. I don't edit because I'm inherently lazy, or efficient, whichever way you want to look at it. Yeah, or the above. You like to outsource. That's alright. So yeah, we've been set up, so this is really fun, but I have heard about you through Libby and it's such a pleasure to have you on the show, so welcome! Thank you. I'm glad to be here. I know this is going to be such a fun conversation. I can already tell. We, so let's just start from the beginning. I know you've got so much happening in your business world right now, and I know we'll eventually get to that. And as some of the listeners may know, when I have a guest on my show, I'd love to find out, we love to hear all about you, what your story is, your journey, how you've got to where you are right now, but also to hear some of those mindset challenges that have come up. If there has been. If there hasn't been any, like, Oh my goodness, how did that happen in terms of how you got to where you are right now with your business? So, Suzanne, I'm just going to hand it straight over to you, please. Let's just share who are you? What do you do? Who do you help? How did you get here? Let's go. I love it. There's one caveat. I've listened to a few episodes of your show. If you have one, because I haven't yet come across one, with somebody who hasn't had any mindset issues, like please hook me up or link that one in the show notes for this one, because I've got to catch that. Um, I'm Sue Dank Holberg, I'm the NOPE coach. I help women learn to say no without feeling like a bitch. I know you said I can swear on your show. Go ahead. Set boundaries. I believe M is for mother, not for maid or martyr. And, you know, we should be saying no more often. We've become a world that's conditioned to be people pleasers, but we aren't pleased at all. Like, it's sacrificing ourselves for others. And I just think, you know, I'm done with that. And that's the work that I do. And especially, like, I don't exclusively work with women in business. But for, especially for entrepreneurs, boundaries are so important because often, you know, sessions will go over time or we give out freebies. And I'm not saying don't give anything out, you know, be scrupulous like Mr. Smithers from The Simpsons is coming to mind in his nuclear power plant, like, Oh, not like that. But sometimes, you know, when you're trying to be generous, especially starting out, then later on, as your business picks up, as you get momentum and build. You have to start putting these boundaries in or you will burn out instead of burn bright. And then the people who have supported you as you've grown can sometimes start to feel annoyed. It's like, well, she used to go over time. She used to give me all this stuff. Doesn't she like me anymore? And it's like, oh, I love you fiercely, but I don't have this capacity. So, you know, start as you mean to continue. Yeah, absolutely. I, Think holding boundaries, particularly for people in business, entrepreneurs is really important. You've nailed it straight away that you give so much your time, resources. And I mean, I recently worked with a client who was working with one of her clients and she was kind of on the understanding that, you know, if I help you, she was in the beauty therapy industry and it was like, Sort of offering this lady support and help with her skincare and giving her all this advice and literally like brief products almost. And this lady was just walking all over. It wasn't showing up for appointments. Didn't even give her any testimonials or reviews and wasn't really like sticking to the program that she was being prescribed. So it was kept on saying like, why is my skin not getting any better? And she's like, well, cause you're not actually following my advice. But the whole thing in around that was around boundaries and the fact that she hadn't set those parameters in the first place. She felt crap. My client felt crap because of the whole experience. And it really like, tarnished her confidence. A hundred percent. It really degrades your confidence. Cause especially whenever I'm personally doing something new, and this is just, it's not business advice. It's just the way that I do things. I often feel uncomfortable charging for it because I don't know if it's going to be good or not. So when I was very early in business, I would often give it away for free in exchange for a testimonial. But what tended to happen is people wouldn't follow up with that testimonial. So now if I'm going to do something like that, for me, it'll still technically be free. I'll put a nominal charge on it, like 50 or a hundred dollars, which is refundable once I have the testimonial. Because some people don't like that, they're offended or they're affronted or that's fine. And also I choose the number, like I have four or six people, however many I'm going to run through this program or this new offering. And so if they don't give me the testimonial, then I still have, you know, some sort of exchange because there needs to be an exchange, energy, you know, what is money if not, you know, a form of energy. But people really don't, in my opinion, appreciate something. if there isn't some sort of exchange for it. So that exchange could be a testimonial, or it could be money, or it could be, I don't do them anymore, but I used to do a business exchange to say, like, I would coach you and you would give me a sound bath or something like that. But I found over time, it would depend on what your exchange is because often, especially when I was early in business, I only had one to one coaching. I didn't have a program. I didn't have any pre recorded things. So if I was exchanging somebody my one to one time for their checklist or whatever. It didn't feel equal to me because here's something that I've, you know, it's just nothing to me, but this is your time or depending on the boundaries of how long it's going to go for or who is exchanging first, you don't end up feeling resentful or like you're left high and dry. I agree with everything you're saying there. Boundaries are really important and particularly not only for entrepreneurs, but for people in life, right? And particularly women. So how did you get to this point where you've decided I need to be the note coach? Like, what has been your experience? In your life that made you go, I need to coach more women and become able to say no and firmly say it. It's an interesting pivot, how the nope coach name came about. So I was rebranding from weight loss mindset, which was my original business into boundaries, and I hired the amazing. Anna Hetzel, to help me with the copy for my website, but my website, if you're listening to this now, is about to change. Well, whatever, by the time this has come out, because as we're recording this, it's now the, the Suzanne specials. Anyway, all of this to say, yeah, I wrote it myself this time. When Anna and I were going over it, she was like, you're such a yay sayer, like, you know, for people advocating for themselves and all this sort of stuff, and I was like, I said to her, nope, that makes me want to die inside, like, rename the yay sayer, and she's like, oh, how about the nope coach? And I was like. There, you have it. So that's how, like, the title came to be. I love that. What got pivoted to Boundaries is, from my experience and all the women I worked with, we didn't need another diet, another program, another pill, another powder, another potion, another planner, another system, another strategy. I believe so many people are overweight because they overgive. They give to everybody else all day, every day, then they're exhausted and depleted. And we all understand that inhaling and exhaling are paired states. So the way that you match up over giving is over consuming. So if you've spent all day. Helping out everyone else, being a mum's taxi, cooking, cleaning, dropping everything, picking up all this sort of stuff. And then in the evening, you over consume. Netflix, chocolate, staying up late, games on your phone. You don't need a system to make you go to bed earlier. You don't need any of these things. You just need to be able to say no, so that you're not depleted and overdrawn and exhausted. Because what is eating if not a form of receiving? Yeah, absolutely. So, through your first business, which was mindset coaching for women for weight loss. Yes. Was it within that, that you were like, wow, there's a running theme within this? That's what you're saying, like, there's a running theme, like, we don't need any more guidance as to how to lose weight, because we can pick anything, right? Yeah, it all works if you work it. But you found that there was this running theme running through your community that was, Everybody was just overachieving, over giving, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, so there was two things that was happening. One, I never coached people in how to eat or how to exercise. Like people go, I'm going to be this weight loss coach, what do I eat and exercise? I never did that. It was always mindset. Yeah. And so weight loss, never, the title never really sat with me. I never really cared what people weighed. I was the weight loss coach, didn't do weigh ins. I never weighed them in or out or anything like that. Didn't hold them to a diary or a food, a food diary or anything like that. Nope, I never did any of that. Because. Yeah. If you. break a bone, like literally have the bone coming through the skin and you just stick a bandaid on there, it's kind of like, you need to set the bone first. You need to address the underlying thing before you dress it. The other example analogy that really works for this, it's funny. We rent our house in Sydney and we had a hole in the roof and it rained and inside got all wet. And I called the realtor and I reported it. Thankfully it was in our stairwell. So it wasn't affecting our furniture or anything. And anyway, I called it, I reported it as a good tenant should do, and they sent somebody over and they repaired it. So then they painted the walls and replaced the carpet at the bottom of the stairwell and it was supposed to be all good. Then the next time it rained, it was leaking again. So I called them back and they sent the person back and I was on the phone to my dad and he's like, so what'd they think when they got up on the roof? I was like, what do you mean? They didn't get up on the roof. He's like, how did they fix a hole in the roof if they didn't get on the ceiling? relates to weight loss is, if you're changing how you eat and how you exercise, it's literally just you painting the walls and changing the carpet. The mindset of the reign, like if you're not addressing the reason behind your overeating or overexercising or not exercising or whatever, You can repaint the walls and change the carpet, and that's what many of us do for years or decades. Whereas what's driving this behaviour, it's like setting the bone, is actually getting up on the roof and having a look at this. realisation I was coming to, paired with people who were working with me who didn't have weight issues. They were over consuming in some other way. Some people overwork, and that's like one of the society's accepted ways to over consume. Like we're rewarded a badge of honor, you work 20 hours a day, you don't sleep, you never see your children, gold star! And it's just kind of like, no, or they were over drinking, and I'm a teetotaler personally, like I never judge you do you, but. It was funny, I was coaching people on drinking and I've never been drunk in my entire life. Over exercising, people laugh at that one as well. It's another socially accepted one, but anything done to excess, anything done as a way of avoiding or not putting yourself first. And yeah, overworking, just over filling our lives with stuff. Like having, being proud of this calendar that's full of things for everybody else, except themselves. Mm. A lot of people I work with, and past me, like how many Susas ago, we would literally give the shirt off your back. You would do anything for anyone else, but you would never ask for help or support or anything because you didn't want to be a burden. And I remember one day, my own coach that I worked with said to me, what does that say about what you think about other people? And I was like, what do you mean? And she's like, well, if you don't want to ask for help, cause you don't want to be a burden, but you're the first to help anyone else, what are you actually thinking about the people that you're helping? And I was just like, oh, I don't like this, like, no, no, no, no, head in the sand kind of thing. And it was like, oh wow, if you actually ask, hey, can you help me with this? And they can't give them the freedom to say no, because you can ask someone else. And, you know, people actually don't see that as a burden. They want to help. Like, people won't know that you need help if you don't ask them. And I just know, like, sometimes if someone says to me, can you help me with this? I love it. Or, if it's not something that I want to do, like, one of my examples I use a lot on podcasts I don't like to bake, and I'm laughing because I was telling you before we recorded this, my husband and my son are making Anzac cookies at this moment. My husband actually bakes, I don't. But when the school has the sales and stuff, and they're like, can you bake this? It's a no from me. That doesn't mean I don't help the school, I'm like, how can I help in another way? Can I, you know, come and prepare it? Can I be the per you know, or can I just make a donation? Because say I make some, like, I made drip cakes before they were cool, and it wasn't part of the design, it's just that I'm not good at icing things. And you'd look at that and it's like, no way anyone would want to buy that. So it's like, instead of giving you some cake that nobody's going to want to buy anyway, Can we just, like, cut the middleman and I give you a donation? Because what's the school wanting? They're wanting money for whatever it is they're raising money for, so, you know, how can you contribute? And if you aren't in a position to make a financial donation, can you volunteer to person the stand and sell? Can you supply ingredients? Can you, there's so many things that you can do. So no doesn't mean not at all. No is like a position to negotiate from. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And that is so true because often we feel like there is only that black and white, like you either say yes and you're committed or no and you're not. And if you say, and I can imagine that this is the whole, like some of the crux of behind what you're helping and supporting your clients with is that you say no. And you don't want to sing like, as you say, a bitch, as you said, like unapologetically, you say no, and you're okay. You're not a bad person for saying no, right? Because we've kind of grown up as kids is knowing that, or you say, yes, it's a good thing. You say no. That's a bad thing. Like, no, yes. But the thing is, it's also looking at it beyond that. Like, my mum, when I was younger, for whatever reason, I don't remember, I bought her this white linen perfume, which was quite expensive and I'd saved up my money. And I gave it to her, it was either Mother's Day or her birthday, and she raved about it and she like depleted the whole bottle and whatever. So I was like, so every birthday, every Christmas, every Mother's Day, you know, I saved up and I bought this for her. When I have my own daughter, like, I'm very sensitive to smells, and my daughter Xanthi, she came home from the Mother's Day school, and she had this perfume thing, it stank, Anna, it was so bad. And I said to her, Xanthi, I love you dearly, thank you so much for the thought you've put into this gift, I really appreciate it. In future, can you not give me anything with a scent or a smell? I'm very sensitive to smells, so things, I'd love a journal, I'd love a crystal, like, I gave her a list of things, a book, but nothing that smells. When Xanthe toddled away, like she was young, she was in kindergarten, my mum was horrified. She absolutely tore into me, she's like, how dare you, you're such a bad mum, like she apologised later, she's like, do you know how many years I've been wearing white linen for and I can't stand it. And I was like, excuse me? And the thing is, this is where we go, we don't say no. We smile, we spray, we go, Oh, I love it. And the thing is, to me, I would much rather someone say, actually, I appreciate you, but I don't like this. And this is what I like instead. So I can spend 20 years buying you what you like, then giving you like, which, which is worse point of view. And it's kind of like, or say a friend says, you're like, Suzanne, let's go see that new, there's some movie out with some kid that's like a vampire. I don't do horror at all. So if you're like, Suzanne, after this podcast, let's go to a movie, if we lived nearby, if we were in person. And you're like, let's go see Annabelle or I don't know, whatever it's called. And I was like, oh, Anna, I'd love to see a movie. I don't really do horror. Is there anything else? And then we could decide, whereas how many times you say, yeah, sure, yeah, sure, yeah, sure. And then you're however long into the friendship and you're like, do you know, I actually can't stand horror movies. And you're like, this has been our thing for five years. Yeah, exactly. Uh, I can definitely remember times when my mom has said, you know, when we receive things, we're all meant to be gracious and accepting and thank you so much, even though you may hate the thing. But yeah, there's been times when ex boyfriends have suddenly assumed. That because I said I liked dolphins, that's something I get dolphin everything. Dolphin t shirts, jewelry, posters. I mean, mind you, I was in high school. It's not like my husband doesn't give me anything dolphins. But you know, it's something like you get over done with things and you're just like, I actually really don't like dolphins. I think they're incredible. And you're too far in. It's how many years in and you've got doilies and placemats and earrings and bracelets and t shirts and towels and it's kind of like, then it gets awkward. So, by saying no, it's kinda like, like my daughter, we just bought her, she's about to turn 11, a Pandora bracelet, and I know that everybody in the family is now gonna want her, buy her charms, which I appreciate. My daughter's also very picky and has been brought up by a mum who has really good boundaries, so she herself has really good boundaries, so what we've done is we've made, we've made a wish list of the charm she actually wants, and then people can choose from that, or they could give her a gift card, because there's nothing worse than when you get your first charm bracelet and everyone buys you something and you're like, I don't want to put that on there. For me, it's hideous, but I don't want to offend the person who's given it to me, but wouldn't you rather give them something they actually wanted? Do you think that, like, if more people, I mean, this is obviously, I feel like a rhetorical question for you really, but do you feel like the world would be a different place, and this is what I'm sure that you're helping create here, if we had developed better boundaries right from the start? Oh, a hundred percent. And the emotions and like, at what line do you get hurt? Like I could see my mum's point about maybe what I said could have been construed as hurtful to my daughter, but she couldn't see how hurt I was. That's something I thought she loved, she didn't like. And like even, you know, leaning further from the boundaries is our ability to receive. When somebody gives you something, and if you struggle to receive, which is often linked with over consuming and everything, and you're almost embarrassed, you're like, oh, you shouldn't have, or you're pushed away, or you say not right now, I don't know about you, but if I put a lot of effort or money or time into making, buying, saving, creating something, and I give it to the person, and I can't wait. To see their reaction and they just push it to the side or tell me I shouldn't have. It's kind of really disappointing. So when I get things now, my clients often send me things, I'll take selfies with it or I'll post it on Facebook or I'll share and my mum has passed now, but she was always saying to me right to the end, it's so braggy. And I was like, yeah, that's one way to look at it. But when somebody is a really good receiver. People love to share with them because it's like you get such a pleasure from the way that they respond to it. And my son, he's the world's biggest receiver. He wakes up in the morning and he's like, I wonder what I'm going to get today. But not from a skeezy, nefarious way, like one time we went to a florist and he's wandering around and he's admiring the flowers, doesn't touch, he's just like, and she starts making him a posy. And I'm like, Oh, how much is this going to cost me? Like, and at the end, she just. Hands it to him. He just always gets stuff. One time we were walking down the street, someone gave him an electric toothbrush. Brand new, in a box. But like the most bizarrest, like, people literally just give him things. And like, you know how Coles and Woolworths, I know you're Australian, they always have those plastic stupid promo things. And I'm always like, no, we are not collecting those. I'm not having a house full of whatever it is. So I've literally just said no to the checkout person. And then as we're packing up the car or pushing the cart out, somebody will go, Oh, here you go. And like another chopper will just hand him, you know, it's, it's incredible. Cause you just, That is, wow. That literally is the best mindset and the way to manifest things ever. How divine, like I've just gone, that kid knows how to manifest shit really easily. Like, I wonder what I'm going to get today. This is so exciting. When people give him things, he's like, well, I shouldn't take things from strangers and stuff. So there's a whole other, there's layers to this. Like I remember once my daughter was dressed in this beautiful princess outfit and someone said to her, I love your dress. It looks beautiful. And she's like, I don't talk to strangers. And I was like, well, that's true, but do you know what I mean? So there is navigating things. And also I don't want him to learn to eat or drink or like, there's, there's a lot But it's just like the mindset of, and, and the way, like, you could give that kid a piece of string and he'd be enamored with it. One Christmas, my sister, as a joke, gave him a kite, but had the kite separately and just gave him the string that attaches to the kite, like wrapped it up and handed it to him, just, just to test his reaction. And he was like, Oh my goodness, this is amazing. No idea what he was going to do with it or whatever, but it was just like really excited. And then she gives him the kite and it was even better. But like people who are just really. Gracious and accepting and receiving, uh, happy to receive, and then if he got something that wasn't his taste or whatever, like, I don't know, he's not a dinosaur's kid. He could say, like, thank you so much for this, but you know, next time I like space or whatever, but it wouldn't ever come across, you know, because the thing is people, when they're giving you something, I think that the day of you should be grateful and just say thank you and then later hide it away or, or only get it out when they come to visit. Like, it's like, oh, hang on, I can't get rid of that fast. Reprogrammed with that, right? Reprogrammed with that. I remember that 100%. Actually, you know what? You've just eased my mind, Suzanne, 100%. Because I remember clearly when I was a kid, I actually felt bad about this recently. The memory popped up. Don't ask me why, but I specifically remember I was in primary school, my birthday was coming up and I'd just been to another little friend's birthday in the same class. And she received from one particular friend that we all were friends with at her party, this really awesome basket. It was plastic, but I loved it. And these really cute bangles. And in my mind, I'm like, I want that. So I intentionally invited the other girl. And I suddenly said, can I please have that basket and bangles? I really liked it. And I got it. Now I, now as an adult, I've actually thought about that going, God, that was so rude of me just to invite this girl. So, I mean, I liked this girl. She was lovely. We used to play together. We were friends. It wasn't that I was just like, Hey, I just want that basket and I don't know you. But in my mind, I was like, well, I felt really rude for doing that. Saying to her up, up front, I really want that basket and bangles, but I really did. And I've never grown, I guess I've grown up. under the conditioning, you know, the upbringing of, it's rude to ask outright for those things. You know, you should be polite and just accept what you get, blah, blah, blah. But I asked for it and I got it and I was so excited and I loved it and I had the basket and the bangles. But even today, like, as an adult, I've been like, oh, that's so rude of me. I can't believe I did that as a kid. Thank you, Suzanne. You just cleared that. I think that's awesome. Asking for what you want, like. Oh my God. And I got it. And I was so happy. I was so happy that I got it, even though I felt. You know, now, like, when I've had been reflecting on it, like, I guess a bit shamed, guilty or whatever for actually, you know, sneakily putting in there, can you just get your mum to get me the bells? No, I think that's amazing. Like, it's funny, when my kids get invited to birthday parties, I always message the mum or the parent and say, what do they like? And nine times out of ten, whatever you get them is fine. And I don't take that as an answer. What does your child like? Because the thing is You know, gifts is my love language, if you haven't guessed that as well, but anyway, but you know, what's more exciting than getting something that you truly want? Now, sometimes, you know, there will be a budgetary constraint or anything, like Casimir, thankfully he likes art. So if people ask me, I'm like, art supplies, like paint, brushes, canvas, whatever, you know, but like with Xanthi now with her Pandora bracelet, I'm not expecting people to buy her a charm. Those things are like 70 or 80. But, you know, a gift card towards a charm or something like that, but get people what they actually want, you know, and in our family, like my husband and kids, what we often do now is experiences, like, because we don't want any more stuff. So like, it was my 40th birthday earlier this year and my husband's birthday and our wedding anniversary. So we went on a family trip. We took the kids out of school, any teachers listening, I apologize, I'm that mom. No, it's good. And we went on a trip. I think they told us to be a bit more relaxed about parenting. Yeah, but you know, it's kind of like getting people something they want or asking for what you want, but also sometimes it's learning to hold the disappointment if you don't get it and depending and choosing who you ask, because if they say no, not making it mean anything about them or your relationship or whatever. I have people who ask me things sometimes and I'll be like, I'll be clear, like, so okay, I'll give you an example. I wrote a book, which you and I talked about before we hit record. A few of my colleagues, friends, business buddies wrote books. The first one said, do you mind reading it, like as a pre reader? And I was like, sure. And I didn't particularly enjoy the book. Like, you know, but it's the thing, it's like, well, how, you know, am I the right fit? Am I the audience? And, you know, but what I learned from this is if somebody says to me in future, like, will you read my book? I'll say, I'll read a chapter. Like, which chapter do you want me to have a look at? Then if I love the chapter and I have space and capacity, I'll ask for more, but then I'm not stuck in, you know, potentially a ten hour read for something that isn't up my alley. And also, who are you choosing to ask? Like, this was quite a technical book, it was very dense and detailed. My husband actually probably would have been a better reader for that than me, but you know, who are you asking for feedback, are they your audience? When my book came and I got the proof copy, I remember being so excited, I handed it to my husband. I was like, here you go! Big mistake. He sat down, he read it from cover to cover, sat for two hours, I was so proud, and he got to the end and I was like, what did you think? And he's like, well, there was no spelling mistakes. Not the kind of feedback I wanted, but, you know, choose your audience. So it's kind of like, who are you asking for feedback for anywhere in your business? Like when I'm on my, what I call my business period, happens about once a month, I tell myself I'm going to quit and look at SEEK for jobs, you know. If I go to my traditionally employed husband with that, he'll be like, Oh, okay, I'll help you dust up your CV. I was like, no, no, you got to go to a fellow biz buddy. And they're like, don't worry, you know, you'll get through this. You did an episode, 10 things to do when you're having a bad patch in your business or something that I listened to recently. Yeah, I think I like reminders. Yeah. Reminders when you're hitting that low point, when you're literally about to scroll seek or a job website. These are the reminders to remind you that it's going to be okay. You're good. You're doing well, babe. You're doing well. And it's kind of like, and also too, for anyone listening to this who's still a little bit unsure about saying no, if someone comes to you, say they, they, it's like, Oh, Anna, I'm moving house. I need you to come over at 6am tomorrow. Help me pack boxes. Like, if you say no, or if you say, look, I'm not free tomorrow, but I can come over on the weekend or too late, Lynn, the move is coming tomorrow. It frees them up to ask someone else, whereas if you begrudgingly do it, it doesn't actually help the friendship at all. And if it really is that urgent, like people will say to me something, I'll be like, I'll circle back to me next week. It doesn't stress the friendship because it's that urgent, they would have found someone else by then. Yeah, exactly. You know what? I can relate to that as well, because years ago, so I think. back earlier when you were trying to remember the word. It's like that reciprocity. Contra deal is what I was after. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Was it a contrary exchange? Is that what you did? Yeah. Contrary exchange or a contra deal or something like that. Yeah. We used to call it like in the massage days, it was just a massage swap or something like that. You know, you do this for me, I'll do that for you type thing. And I actually found it very hard to say no to another massage therapist. We were doing swaps on Mondays. And I worked at that time pretty much full time as a massage therapist and Mondays and maybe I think it was Tuesday or whatever, I only had like, you know, a weekend. It was whenever it fell in the week, that was my weekend. Monday was one of them. I think I did these every second Monday. I actually found it really hard to get out of these massage swaps because he worked full time in another job and the massage for him was his sort of like, Part time business thing that he was wanting to roll more into and he really enjoyed it and he just wanted to get more experience and stuff like that. And not to say I didn't enjoy receiving a massage. God knows I probably needed one, but I felt like at the end, it was sometimes like, this is my day off and I'm massaging again. Even though I'm getting a massage, I still have to do a massage for an hour. This isn't really fun anymore. Like I'm not really enjoying this. So in the end, the only way I was able to break it was I think I moved states. I'm laughing with you, not at you. I've had situations, not I'm not a massage therapist, but where I've done something. And a really good way for anyone listening out of that, because sometimes somebody does propose something. So say you meet a person in a networking session, or you do a course and the course is finished and somebody will invariably say, let's keep meeting on our own or something like that. Give it a deadline. Say, okay, we'll do this massage swap or we'll do this meetup or whatever for three months or six months or however long and reassess. Because then you give yourself an out, otherwise, if one of you wants to leave and the other one doesn't, or the other one might want to leave as well, but also doesn't want to speak up, so then you're in this awkward dance where you just keep going and going and going. Because I remember there was a client I worked with once and her parents lived nearby. And she had a child and they said, anytime you need us to babysit, like call us, we'll do it. And she thought that the parents were excited and happy, like she was happy to hire someone, but the parents are always like, you know, we'll do it. And one day the mum made some offhand comment, you know, how we all do when we're short on tempo or whatever. And she was like, you know, and then she realized, she's like, if you'd said anything earlier, like I would have been happy to hire someone. And like, say you are doing a contra dealer exchange and one of you doesn't want to massage anymore or one of you doesn't need the thing anymore. Sometimes I've had things like that that have turned into them paying, continuing to pay me for my service because I don't want their service anymore. Doesn't mean I don't like, love, respect them as a person, but I'm just trying to think, say you had somebody who was doing. Oh, I know. Livvy we're talking about. If she's doing your podcast and you're exchanging her for something, but then you wrapped up your podcast, you wouldn't need her service anymore, but she might still want you to do sound healings or something for her. So it's kind of like, well then it changes to a paid thing. So how often do people keep going? It's like, well, I have to keep this going because, Yeah. This person's doing this thing for me. I can remember I had a blog once and I had an exchange with someone and she would edit my blogs and whatever. And I didn't want to write a blog anymore. And then I was like, I kept the blog going because I couldn't say no, it's another reason I teach boundaries. Now you teach what you mostly do. Yeah. I think you've just shed a lot of light for a lot of listeners here and particularly I like how you've just said, you know, for me in that case with the massage therapist, like you said, Yeah. Let's do this for so many weeks or months and then see where we are from that. Do we still want to keep going? Do you enjoy it? Oh, I actually feel like I've got something else to do. Make up a reason why you want to get out of it. You've actually just highlighted a really good way of managing that kind of exchange situation so that there is a way out if it doesn't feel right anymore, or if you're done, you know, like, or. You know, maybe if you still want to continue and the relationship is going well, but I understand like there's so many times I've done courses and everybody's like, let's continue. And you're just like, Oh, I don't really feel like continuing. Like, you know, but you sort of get dragged into it somehow. And then there's, I think I was, it fizzles and it fades. And I think sometimes too, the part you said about, Oh, this is makeup and excuse or whatever. One of my pet passions, like life journey would feel fulfilled. If people were honest, like, I am so honest, some people say I'm direct, some people say I'm blunt, depends, I guess, whether you like me or not, but, you know, say you invited me to something, and I was like, yeah, sure, I'll be there, and then on the day, I'm a really hardcore introvert, I was like, I'm having an introvert day, I can't come. I would literally say that to you, I wouldn't say, oh, I've got a headache, or, I've got a cough, I'd just say, I've, like, It's funny, we're recording this, I nearly messaged you, we don't know each other yet, as we said, we're on a blind date. My neighbours decided to have a rager last night, like on a Tuesday night, they're up to 3am, so I'm running on very little sleep. So, have we known each other well? I might have said, could we postpone? But, you know, it depends your rapport with the person. Also, too, it depends on the event. If it was your wedding, I wouldn't say, sorry, I'm having an introvert day. I would just Deal with my introvertness and come, but like to have like my friends that I have, I love that, you know, they're at the level to say like, I just can't today. And I don't make that mean that they suddenly don't like me or they have an issue. I love the fact that they can just be like, I can't deal today. And it's not, I can't deal with you cause you're too much or whatever. It's just like, whatever's happening in my world. I just need to take a moment to like sort myself out, be in my own space. And then when I'm ready, I'll be there. Yeah. Gosh, Suzanne, you're really like shedding some big light around these boundaries and ways to like. I'm not even going to say the word politely, but just be honest with yourself and the world and who you're exchanging these conversations or relationships with, like where your boundaries are and being able to say no. I know that it's okay to say no. Yeah, because sometimes you do, you like, you're really excited. Oh, there's been things I've been really excited about. And then on the day something's happened, you've had some bad news or you're tired or you've fallen over or you're feeling, whatever it is, and you just don't want to, you just It doesn't mean you don't ever want to see that person again, or whatever. We do this in other areas of our life. How often do we plan to do something for dinner, and then we're like, Uh, I'm just gonna get takeaway. Or, I don't feel like chicken tonight, I'm gonna have steak. Or, you know, whatever it is. We don't suddenly have to go and apologize to our fridge. No, exactly. Or the supermarket. Sorry, I went and saw you yesterday and bought all that food, but yeah. Yeah, but if we were just like more honest with people and it's just like, I'm not feeling it today. How different would our lives be as opposed to when we think, because the thing is, if you do make up an excuse, sometimes later when somebody will see you, Oh, I hope you're feeling better. What? Oh yeah, the coughs, or my biggest pet peeve, say you're running Tupperware party or one of these home selling things and you invite everyone and everyone says yes, most of them have no intention of coming, so on the day the ping ping ping ping ping text will start with the 15 different reasons, my car's broken down, my kid's sick, my neighbor's dog's, you know, and it's like I have catered for you. I have cooked something and I don't normally bake, and now I have this person here and I feel obligated to buy stuff, or I didn't even want to have the party in the first place. So it's hilarious when my friends have these parties now, if I do attend, which is rare. And there's some things I like, like Lorraine Lee linen, I'm a sucker for that. Oh yeah? And if I need it and I go to one of those, I'll often spend big, and the person will be like, have your own party. I'm like, no. I don't have these parties, and here's why, like, I just, I will pay full price to avoid this. Yeah. This is amazing to hear that, that, hey, first of all, there's somebody out there who can actually support people in being stronger and being able to say no, as well as hearing that it's, yeah, what you're suggesting and saying that, you know, if we're not into it, if we're not feeling right within ourselves, it's okay to say that, we don't have to pretend, we don't have to make the excuses, just be honest, and people will probably be so much more accepting, won't they? And times out of ten, people are, because I don't know how many times, like my husband and I, one night of Fortnite, every two weeks, for people, if you're listening to this outside Australia, I realise they didn't, they only thought Fortnite was the game. But anyway, once every two weeks we have movie night, the kids go to bed and then we watch something at home. Like we don't leave them home alone, please don't panic, don't need to call child services, like on Netflix or something. And then there's that new ish Batman movie. And we were like, we're going to watch this. So we sit down and I'm starting, I'm like, this is dreadful. It's about 10, well, I thought it was, if you loved it, I apologize. But about 10 minutes in, I said to him, I'm not digging this. He's like, oh, thank goodness. I can't stand it. And it was like, we both would have sat through the movie because we'd been like, this is our time and all this sort of stuff. I was like, let's see what else is on. Because if the heart of the activity is you wanting to spend time together. You can find something else, another movie, another show, you know, whereas sometimes we are both in a situation where we're like, you know, the massage example too, that guy may have felt similar, or the groups that extend beyond the end of the program. Everyone's kind of feeling it. I've got a shirt that says everyone was thinking that I just said it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. I love it so much. So I just want to circle back around to something that I was just curious about was why did you feel like mindset was the key thing back, you know, when you first started coaching people for weight loss or whatever it was, why mindset? Why did that really tweak and like, you know, be your, like, I love the mindset aspect of supporting people. so much. Well, I wrote an entire book about it, that's not a shameless plug, that's just it. If you want to read like 20 chapters of that, there's a detailed answer, but in short, from my personal experience, I tried every diet I come across, and many I wished I hadn't, and then I got into exercise, I actually left medical school and trained to become a personal trainer because I thought exercise is the answer, and then it wasn't. When I came across my first mindset coach myself, as a client, googling how do you lose weight and still eat chocolate, it's funny, the very first coach I hired did NLP, Neuro Linguistic Programming, and I was such a people pleaser, like when she was like, close your eyes and imagine the dots, do you see the dots? I was like, I didn't see shit. And then I thought, what a waste of time this coaching is. So it was so funny because I was like, this, this is dumb. And then for whatever reason, I was introduced to somebody else who was also a coach, and like, when you're desperate, you're like, okay, I'll try anything. And then she got me to close my eyes and whatever, I'm like, is this NLP? And she's like, yeah. I'm like, I don't do NLP. And she's like, why? I'm like, because I don't see shit. Like, it's just like me for the first time being really honest. And she's like, great. And I was like, really taken aback. I was like, what? She's like, you don't need to see, like, what happens for you. And it turns out I'm kinesthetic. I'm more of a feeler. When you are really honest, and the thing is, don't people please your coach if you find someone? Like, don't be an asshole. Like, I was probably bordering on asshole there, but, you know, if you're hiring them to help you and you're not feeling helped, you're going, uh huh. Yeah. And, you know, so we had this rapport and relationship like I hadn't had before. And I was like, Oh, and I actually started to have experiences that just didn't make sense to me, to my logical brain, which was calories in and calories out. And, you know, looking at, you know, why do I reach for food when I'm not hungry? What am I really hungry for? So I had a great personal experience. Then she was actually running a coach training and she said to me, do you want to train as a coach? And I was like, hell hell no. Anyway, then circumstances conspired and the job I was in, I actually ended up being fired. And literally, I kid you not, like 15 minutes after I got fired, I got a text message from this lady saying, are you sure? Cause I have a coach training starting next week. So I kind of fell into it serendipitously. Yeah. I love that. Wow. And then, so now you use mindset coaching as the core behind like whatever, whatever you've studied or trained in, you use that to help support people establishing boundaries and being able to say no confidently. Yeah, so I've done NLP, I've done so many coach trainings. I've got more pieces of paper than you know what to do with. Like you talked about being an early entrepreneur. I was what I lovingly referred to as a wannapreneur, and it wasn't until one day that my husband said to me, kindly, but firmly, that I didn't have a business, I had an expensive hobby, that I was like, oh. Yeah. Cause it's a whole different thing about learning modalities and having your own experience and your own inner transformation and outer transformation and then actually having to ask people to pay you. Yes. Yes. So yes, I was a bit of a certificate hunter for, you know, three or four years in the middle there. Yeah. But the things that you've learned is obviously, you know, had that big impact on your life. A hundred percent. Literally. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not a magic bullet or magic pill or, like, sometimes I think, as much as I love coaching and mindset and whatever, some people don't market it ethically. It's like, do one hypnotherapy, I'm also a hypnotherapist, that's another one of my feathers in my cap, but I'll do one hypnotherapy session and you'll never touch chocolate again or you'll never. Smoke again. And there can be some preying on people's insecurities. And I really don't like that. Like it is a process and it is work and it's not just a magic coach. That's like, you know, if you're saying you're a massage therapist, if I go for a massage, from my point of view, I lie on the table and then they massage me. That's the kind of massage I like. And I remember I started seeing like, I don't know if the word's right, but like a functional massage therapist. And they'd like give me stretches and stuff. And then I wouldn't do them. And then I'd try and lie and tell them, like, ah, stretch, stretch, stretch, stretch, They knew what I was like, but it was kind of like, and then I realized that's not the kind of massage I wanted. I lie on the table and, you know, it's not the best for my body. But coaching isn't like that. You don't come and then Suze hypnotizes you and then you go off and, you know, the work, much like personal training, which I used to do, you do between sessions is more important than the hour you spend a week with your coach. And then being honest with them. Which was a struggle for me, but now not so much, about what you are or aren't doing. If people come to me and they haven't done anything between sessions, I can see the shame and the guilt and the way they're tripping over their words. And I'm like, oh, this is amazing. And they're like, but we'd made a plan and I was going to do this. And I was like, yeah, let's unpack why you didn't. Like, let's get to the real stuff, as opposed to the school days indoctrination of, if I haven't done my homework, the teacher's going to yell at me. Yeah. If you made a plan and you haven't followed through on it, I'm just as excited as if you had, because then we can unpack something that's really meaningful. And how many areas of your life are you doing the same thing? Yeah. Long winded way of saying, have my own personal experience and then, you know, transitioned into business, but then it was a whole other learning curve in terms of sales and marketing and being honest about what's involved in working together rather than making magic promises. Yep. And then what has been your mindset then? What has been your experience about starting your business? Like how did that look for you when you first started charging money for what you do? For me it was such a hard slog because I was asking people for money because I was always such a condition never to ask people for things. And then, you know, it was almost like if they turned up late or then the session, I'd let the session go over or if, even though I had. T's and C's. I never stuck to them. If they canceled at the last minute, it's fine. You can do it again tomorrow. You can do it again next week. I've come a long way since there, but you know, what you allow will continue. And now, you know, this is what I teach. It's funny. People don't try and push the envelope like they used to when I just did, you know, just pure mindset or weight loss mindset, but it's challenging because. For me, like my personal opinion, if I go to the shop to buy a sandwich, like I physically have a sandwich or I have a Bristol or I have, you know, I have a physical product for a coaching or for a service business, something that's intangible, especially if you're feeling kind of lousy and we work together and you feel better. You'll feel better about the thing you initially came to me for, but chances are you may feel lousy about something else. It's just human nature. So it's kind of like learning ways to document people's journeys and their progress so we can say, you know, look how far you've come because how often do we set a goal? Like I'm. I'm segwaying a long way here, but I'm just wrapping up 365 days of daily podcasts. I'm not where I thought I would be in terms of audience size and all this sort of stuff. And sometimes we can be like, well, what was the point? There's a whole year wasted. This sucks. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Coach myself the way I coach my people. What have I learned about, you know, how to run a podcast. Like you could literally give me a topic and I could riff for 15 minutes with no worries now. Whereas that used to make me panic. Like what else have you learned along this process? Not just, I didn't reach X number of kilos on the scale or this size or this amount of dollars. So I'm immediately equals a failure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's really awesome reminders as well as. Beautiful insights in your own experience that I know will help and support other people in their journey, whatever it is that they're starting to do within their business as well. Do you still have mindset wobbles these days or are you fairly like, pretty good in your business? I think a coach without a coach is like a doctor without a doctor. It shouldn't happen. We all have stuff. It's like fish can't see the water because they're in it. So having that person external to you to point out, like, look how far you've come, or look how amazing this is. And to, you know, remind yourself because having wobbles is human. It's normal. I think we should be normalizing resistance and we should be normalizing. I'm back where I began and all this stuff. It happens to everybody. Rather than people put on a pedestal and a pillar and this never happens to me. And it kind of reminds me of like the influencer lifestyle that later on, you find out that they rented the home or they're standing in front of the gold lounge because they don't actually have a first class ticket, but they have something to maintain. It's like stuff happens, life happens and who we are throughout it. It doesn't mean that we haven't got anywhere, like dips and troughs and seasons and personal winters happen. But it's like, yeah, I've got the tools and the things to come into a fresh spring and start again. And you're not starting over, you're just starting a new cycle. Yes, absolutely. I really like that, the way that you've said that, that we do all experience The ups and downs, the peaks and troughs within business. Doesn't mean you're broken. Doesn't mean you have to rip it all apart and start it again. And it's part of the experience, isn't it? And the learning and the growth. So we need to remind how we support ourselves in those moments and not tear us apart. But like you said, have someone that can support you along the way, or, you know, Just that you can lean on in that moment, you know, a biz bestie and just be like, I'm just having the shittest month ever or year or day or hour. How are you going? Just give me some insight. It can turn so fast. Like you can have a moment where you're like in the depths of the despair and then, you know, also too in business. And this, I think is important, something I remind myself of often and something for listeners. We don't work a nine to five. Like my husband has a traditionally employed job. He has a salary. I think I listened on your podcast. Your husband's a teacher. So like they get paid either in a salary or for the number of hours that they work. They, my husband's an engineer. When you're an entrepreneur, you can put a lot of effort in for a long period of time. And then suddenly it's, you hear it all the time, they came out of nowhere, and then there's guilt and shame associated with, well, I got all this money, I didn't do anything. And it's kind of like, well, really, seriously? Well, if you spread it along the times where you weren't really doing anything, inverted commas, but you were, you'd probably find that you've. made money, it's just all hit you at once and now you have to work. But also you never know, like you, you're a podcaster, I'm a podcaster. Somebody could be listening to your show for months or years and then decide today's the day, I'm ready. And then they book. And if two or three or four people did that in a week, like when I'm in my depths of despair, mindset wobbles, everything sucks and I'm going to quit my business, I sit down with my numbers as much as my brain doesn't want to. And I'm like, how many people would I need to turn this tide? And the number is actually usually really quite low. Like, it feels like terrible, but it's not really, so A, that's one thing. B, that could happen in a day or a week, like, it's possible, I'm open to this. And then C, the other thing I remind myself of is, am I in this moment okay, or am I in a painful past? Like, when I was growing up, my parents did have a bankruptcy, so I grew up with a family where things got repossessed, and it was very challenging, so it's often that part of it, like, how old am I when I'm freaking out, and it's like, oh, it's teenage me. I don't know. And or am I in a fearful future? Like, do I have enough for today? Yeah, I've got plenty, I've got enough food, I've got all my business things covered. Like sometimes I'll be like, oh, I've only got enough for six months. And it's like, hello, there are people who don't have food on the table who don't have things now. So it's kind of like noticing all these thoughts. I've got a card here on my desk. I know you said I can score on the show. Today's what I drew, it says, don't let your thoughts fuck you over. And it's like, yeah, cause they do, I have enough for today. And then that just calms me down. And I believe like, it's a bit woo, but energetically when I'm open and like, oh yeah, it could happen. It's more likely to attract people who are also like that, whereas if I'm like, I don't have enough, then I attract people who also don't have enough, then they don't want to pay me, they just want to like, scrimp me for all the free stuff, and then it just kind of feeds on each other, whereas if I'm like, you know, I'm taking care of today, then amazingly, it's like, oh my god, this is a miracle, and it's like, no, no, I was just open to it. Yeah, exactly. Oh, I definitely feel like that's a whole nother conversation I think you and I could have about energy, working along the mindset aspect, but just being open to receive as opposed to closing yourself off. And when you close yourself off, you're constricting the energy flow, you know, you're holding too tightly. So then you can't allow things to breathe or move or be tense. Like when you hold too tightly to something, it gets crushed or like, you know, that open palm is the receiving one, but it was all clamped. Then you, you know, You're closing your energy down. Yeah. And then you're only inviting in. Other, you're attracting like, like attracts like, like magnetically. So then people coming in who, you know, oh, I can't afford that. And it's funny if something really irritates me in my business, like I used to get really annoyed. I'm sure you get them too, by all those messages. I could fix your YouTube. I could fix your Instagram. Like seriously, is that even work for anyone? It's the worst kind of marketing ever. And one day I was like, Do I get angry at the spam in my actual mailbox, like the catalogues and whatever? No, I just chuck them in the recycling. So it's like, if I don't give any thought or energy to this, if I don't think there's, the chances are they're just bots anyway, you know what I mean? But I just tended to get less of it. Whereas when I'm really focusing on it, I get lots of it. Yeah, I agree. 100%. I think Suzanne, this is a really awesome moment just to wrap up our episode, cause I feel like we could chat so much more for so much longer and I know poor Livy will have to edit this. Shout out to Livy. Oh my God, hello. Thanks Livy, thank you for editing. But I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the show and. Sharing some really key, valuable insights that I know, actually, I've got one listener in mind. I hope she hears this episode and really hones in on the boundaries and having that inner strength to say no and say it with confidence and unapologetically, and also just sharing those insights about business and what it is that we do. Like on the inside of being an entrepreneur in literally a service based world where we're offering a service as opposed to, you know, a tangible product, but yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm so glad we went on this blind date. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And for anyone who's listening, I did have a, like a little course thing that I have and you've got a code to people. It's normally 50. People can get it for free. Building boundaries will take time. Like it's like any muscle. So sometimes, I don't know if you're anything like me, I listen to a show and I'm feeling bored and I'm like, this is going to be amazing. Like the workbook has got me pumped, but then I'm in the wild and the real life and someone asked me something and I'm breathing into a paper bag while saying yes, while screaming no. Like it's going to be a process. So if you want to work through that course, that should help with some of that. Yeah. Thank you so much for that beautiful offer as well. So that's in the show notes below, which I like to point. Everybody's singing and pointing down. And also, I've also included all of Suzanne's details so you can go stalk her, stalk her new website, fresh and ready for viewing, which is pretty fun. And then you can just go check out all her amazing offers, including the book that I did read the first two pages on, your memoir, which, so thank you so much. You're welcome. But yeah, thank you so much for coming to the show. I would gladly go on another date with you, Suzanne, anytime. Yes, let's do it. Thanks for having me. Thank you everyone for listening in. You're welcome. Thank you so much for tuning in and listening to today's episode. Please rate and review this podcast so that it can continue to thrive and reach more listeners. I love to know who my listeners are. So please screenshot this episode and tag me on Instagram at Anna F. Hastie. And I look forward to connecting with you in the next episode.