IW 102: Special Report 2: 30 Years BA (Hons) Interpreting BSL/English Program University of Wolverhampton

Involve the deaf community, obviously! But alcohol to help? hmmm.

The second of 3 in this series of celebratory episodes for the University of Wolverhampton. Their BA (hons) BSL/English program is 30 years old. Today Megan, Sarah, and Becky discuss the overarching principles that helped design the curriculum and mission. We also discuss the influences and impact of the deaf community involvement, technology, collaborations, and much more.

My guests include:

Professor Megan Lawton, Founder
Sarah Bown, Senior Lecturer
Rebecca Fenton-Ree, former Senior Lecturer
(and mentioned: Kristiaan Dekesel, second Head of Department)

Their bios can be seen in the notes of episode 101.

Next week: We get more advice and are told the amazing and fun stories from these key figures and hear from several alumni of this sign language interpreting program at the University of Wolverhampton.

Enjoy.

Transcript

IW 102: Special Report Part 2: 30 Years BA (Hons) BSL-English Interpreting University of Wolverhampton

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go tointerpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quote of the day by Benjamin Franklin, a leading figure, and a founding father of the United States of America.

00:00:45 Tim

“Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember. Involve me and I learn.”

00:00:54 Tim

What a wonderful quote to connect…

00:00:57 Tim

To connect this series of episodes celebrating the 30th anniversary of the BSL English program at the University of Wolverhampton, we continue this series with Megan, Sarah, and Becky.

00:01:13 Tim

Starting out talking about the mission, the principles behind the curriculum and the program itself, giving us a little advice on how to start our own programs now.

00:01:24 Tim

And visiting with Sarah and Becky, we learn how the curriculum evolved, how the staff and the student body changed over time. We see how involving the deaf community early influences our goals in innovative and positive ways.

00:01:45 Tim

And lastly, we look at technology, and how its influence has impacted the learning and teaching process.

00:01:54 Tim

So, let's celebrate some more.

00:01:56 Tim

30 years… hmm… we better get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:02:04 Tim

Let's jump right into the conversation we left off from last episode with the founder of the program, Professor Megan Lawton. She is discussing the philosophy or principle of creating a sign language interpreter from a holistic point of view.

00:02:19 Megan

So that way of working, that being able to be an effective communicator was something that we actually really, really, really wanted to make sure all the students knew what a privileged position they were in. So, things like, you know, ethical considerations when you're going on to a job. [Tim: mhmm] What you can and what you can't say. How you would manage a situation.

00:02:41 Megan

That your client is the one... that actually you're working for that person. So, a lot of the things…

00:02:50 Megan

We wanted people to understand the professionalism behind what they were doing. [Tim: mhmm] Where again, perhaps in the past where mainly people were Children of, of Deaf Adults, that the kind of ethical, the professional, was by osmosis, [Tim chuckles] rather than actually by design. [Tim: yeah] So, that was also part of that design was really important to, to get that professionalism in. [Tim: mhmm]

00:03:14 Megan

So, even simple things like…

00:03:16 Megan

What people wore, how they presented themselves because they were representing that client, or they were representing that deaf person. You know, that was part of our understanding that it's not about you. It is about how you're supporting and enabling that deaf person to reach their potential and to also be clear that you know, if they had questions, how you enabled them to ask those questions rather than you would do it on their behalf. [Tim: mhmm]

00:03:45 Megan

So, without realizing it, I…

00:03:48 Megan

To me it just made sense. It was a language.

00:03:50 Megan

I hadn't realised how revolutionary that notion would be. [Tim chuckling] Because you know, coming from somebody who's a communicator, it just made perfect sense. I didn't have uh, a social work background, the education background, and to be honest, when I found out more about that…

00:04:08 Megan

I was so appalled when talking to, you know, deaf students who's, who'd had their hands cello taped to the desk to stop them signing. Visiting the residential school with children as young as three being sent to a boarding school because they were a deaf.

00:04:24 Tim

Mm-hmm.

00:04:25 Megan

I was just…

00:04:25 Megan

I was appalled, absolutely appalled, and then when we were doing international conferences, because obviously this this raised quite a lot of interest, the approach that we had as a language approach as opposed to a social worker education approach, just hearing how still some other oralism was going on. [Tim: mhmm]

00:04:45 Megan

And you just think, but it makes no sense. There's a rich language here and understanding that rich language and being able to unlock it was something that at the time, we were really concentrating on doing the best job that we could to enable deaf people to be seen as educated and capable of education. And that might sound awful. But in the past a deaf person would be judged on what the interpreter said when they signed. [Tim: mhmm]

00:05:15 Megan

And if that interpreter wasn't signing to the nuanced or level of sophistication of language that they were actually signing in, then it might come over as very uneducated or not, very literate.

00:05:30 Megan

And, and that was to me that was quite shocking. Because being dyslexic, I think I've always been judged by my read and written English. [Tim: mhmm] And so having a little bit of that and going, no actually don't judge me just by one, by one standard. Umm, that has a bit of a resonance to me.

00:05:47 Tim

Yes, that perspective resonates with me as well, not only what I've seen as an interpreter, but also from living in the Czech Republic. Occasionally I will be judged solely on the fact that the level of my fluency is not native.

00:06:05 Megan

Actually, the Czech… was an interesting one. So, the School of languages, we had some visitors from the Czech Republic coming to look at English as a second language. [Tim: mmm]

00:06:14 Megan

And they walked passed some of our teaching and they were like, “What's going on there?” So I explained the degree in English to a British sign language.

00:06:23 Megan

And they invited us to come over and at the time…

00:06:28 Megan

In the Czech Republic, you had to have two languages to do a degree. [Tim: mhmm] I met with the rector of Charles University, which is one of the most prestigious universities in Czech Republic. And he went, “Convince me that, that sign language is a language, and we'll look at our programs.”

00:06:46 Megan

And I ended up on a TV program with an oralist debating sign language. I had no clue I was going to end up do that. [Tim chuckling]

00:06:53 Megan

But the rector said, “OK you, there's a grammatical structure.” I'd explained to him how a visual structure makes sense, where you would have the same in a, in a written language structure.

00:07:07 Megan

And they, they changed it. They allowed Czech sign language as another language. So, we actually saw for the first time, deaf people being able to start degree courses. [Tim: mhmm]

00:07:17 Megan

And that was phenomenal to me. Quite, quite scary because people were prepared to listen, you know, “convince me.” But the schools we visited were all oral schools, and that is changing, and across the world. And you actually think if you could start to recognize the power of a language and start to say that language isn't just a, a jumble of signs…

00:07:41 Tim

Hmm.

00:07:42 Megan

But actually, that language is made-up of hand placement, of facial expression, of body, of placement, and that's part of that structure. I find people are, are far more interested to understand that has a purpose, that there is there isn't just this sort of arbitrary gesture.

00:08:03 Megan

That actually the gestures have meaning within that meaning, where something is placed or, or the facial expression is all part of that.

00:08:12 Megan

And, and we never really got, I don't think we ever got pushed back at Wolverhampton and in fact we had some of the largest student groups in the language department when it first started. And it was literally, yeah, French, German, Spanish, Russian, sign language was just was just that.

00:08:30 Tim

Yeah.

00:08:32 Tim

Those who are listening now in a country or region that does not have an interpreting program, is that where you would recommend they start is focus on the language and developing that aspect of the program first or what would your advice be now?

00:08:49 Megan

I think the first thing is to be open minded and see deaf people as your experts, but experts in their language. And to have the conversations around the language, the, the structures, the meaning and to recognize that the spoken and written language is different to the signed language.

00:09:11 Megan

And so, and I think this is where sometimes problems with things like Makaton come in. [Tim: mhmm] Because they all sort of billed as an international language without understanding that language has a grammar and it's not international; it's contextualized. [Tim: mhmm]

00:09:29 Megan

So, having deaf people as the language experts, but also enabling them to feel valued and wanted, and that they do have that expertise. It was something that was really, really important. I think the hard things sometimes is that gatekeeping between you, we needed a very good interpreter. So, we had Peter Llewellyn Jones who enabled deaf colleagues to fully participate in the course design, [Tim: mmm] and fully participate in the assessments.

00:09:59 Megan

So, getting our students who are signing to be marked by someone who is Deaf to actually say, “OK. This is where your handshake was wrong or you, you misinterpreted this word.” So, it was very much a team of expertise.

00:10:15 Megan

But at the core were deaf people who were respected as a language experts. [Tim: mhmm] So, I would say to anybody who's starting off treat it as a language.

00:10:24 Megan

There were very, very well-established interpreting design programs. So, you know what a, a spoken interpreter would do... You only have to, to put in place the sign language interpreter as another language and treat it as that.  [Tim: mhmm] And the same way we did things like, we created a language lab, but rather than a language lab that was just oral, we had little videos. So, students would have the 20 video recorders with little TVs in them. You know, the old-fashioned ones where you could put a tape in, [Tim chuckling] and they had a little screen at the top. [Tim: yeah]

00:11:03 Megan

You know, we created a, a language lab of those.

00:11:07 Megan

So, our students weren't just speaking they were… their, their face… because it was important that their facial expressions were there, that the signing was recorded so…

00:11:19 Megan

You know it was using the conventions that existed for spoken language, but just making it visual.

00:11:25 Tim

Mm-hmm.

00:11:26 Megan

When we designed the program we designed…

00:11:29 Megan

The language route.

00:11:31 Megan

The interpreting route.

00:11:34 Megan

…and the professionalism route, those three strands. So, the language of the, the developing both the English and the sign language. Because let's face it, if you're starting degree programs in any format, you'll come here across words that you might never heard of beforehand. [Tim: mhmm]

00:11:55 Megan

And then the interpreting is that…

00:11:58 Megan

…consecutive, simultaneous interpreting. Then that that sort of professionalism route is the ethics, the ways of behaving, also the business acumen and skills that you need. So, we have those three things that together made a whole and that whole experience. [Tim: mhmm]

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:12:18 Tim

A big thank you to everyone who shares this podcast with a colleague and friend. If you want to support the show even more, check out the show notes for links to Buy Me A Coffee because it's very embarrassing to fall asleep during an interview. Thank you. Let’s go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:12:36 Tim

Now, Sarah, Becky, during that time you're talking about where you got the resources, how you worked, burning the midnight oil. If you look back from the start, did the courses change?

00:12:49 Tim

Or how did the curriculum evolve?

00:12:52 Sarah

The courses did change not only by internal university changes, so if there were regulatory or internal changes to program design that would influence us, but also externally with professional bodies as well.

00:13:07 Sarah

And as the interpreting profession evolved over the years and the, and sign language teaching as well, that in turn influenced the curriculum content and any adaptations inclusions we needed to make within how that was going to be delivered. So, if we look back to the early days, our registration body was uh, CACDP as I've already referred to, which is now called the NRCPD, which is the National Registers of Communication Professionals working with Deaf and Deafblind People.

00:13:37 Sarah

And as the standards and requirements evolved together with the professional mapping by CACDP and then now the NRCPD of interpreter education programs, thus we evolved with it and the content of what we did. So, we've gone from looking at, you know, parallel language teaching programs for spoken languages, [Tim: mhmm] and, at, at all levels and TEFL and TESSEL programs and what potential content could be in that and also looking at sign language teaching what was already established within the field and typical content and then moving that forward.

00:14:14 Sarah

You know, we were talking about global warming and climate change in all manner, you know, Becky was a powerhouse with her colleagues have come up with all sorts of ideas [Tim chuckles] with, with Kristiaan. And, and now we have the National Occupational Standards known as NOSI in interpreting and, and you know, I sat on that and, and advised on the 2017 one of those, together with many other people and experts in the field, and they influence the shape, our curriculum and our modular course structure now.

00:14:46 Sarah

So again, it needs to be remembered that interpreter education programs never operate in isolation. Not now. [Tim: mmm] You know, if set in a university context, they're working to regulatory standards, internal quality standards for the programs, and that must be compliant with for HE, you know, teaching, learning design outcomes assessment requirements as relevant to the higher education landscape.

00:15:14 Tim

During these years, how did you incorporate the deaf community in the learning process? Did you have deaf teachers? Deaf students? Did the deaf studies program and the interpreting program collaborate in some way, or how did that look?

00:15:32 Becky

For me, it was, umm, we had regular involvement with the deaf community. We were very close ties to the university because we had the Deaf club on a Thursday night. And…

00:15:42 Becky

What we did was pay for a number of deaf people to come in and talk to our interpreting students about their experiences and their lived experiences and their challenges. [Tim: mmm]

00:15:52 Becky

That was for me incredibly useful because we were able to get the real breadth and range of the language users that our students would be working with when they graduated. Can't remember the what the year the deaf team started joining in and then what we found was a really good balance of working with the deaf and hearing perspective in the language modules. So, we would work very much the team-teaching approach.

00:16:21 Becky

And so we'd say, “Right, I need, I need this being taught, and uh… and can you do X, Y and Z? And then what I'll do is complement that with all these additional things.” and working like that proved to be really successful.

00:16:37 Becky

Because sometimes the students would go, “I don't get it. I don't understand. What? What do you mean by role shift” or whatever? And I’d say, “OK. Can you see what he's doing in the hearing world? This is what we, we would use role shift for an equilvalent.”

00:16:49 Becky

And they'd go, “Ohh. OK, right. OK, we've got it right now. We can move on.” [Tim: mmm] So, having those two different perspectives really push language learning and it was ahead of its, uh… We were ahead of the game really because back then it was…

00:17:05 Becky

You switch off your voice and you don't do any voice at all. And sometimes I found that we needed to, to get OK we're not understanding. Let's talk it through in our first language.

00:17:15 Becky

What's happening? What can we identify? What are the, what are the struggles?

00:17:19 Becky

Right now, we've, we've, we've worked together. We've discussed it. Now let's go back and have a look. And that's when the deaf lecturer would then be able to demonstrate or to explain that sometimes… Having that two pronged approach really helped push that language acquisition faster for our, um, for our students.

00:17:38 Becky

That wasn't the, the “done thing” back then, but we got, we found the system where it worked so well.

00:17:44 Sarah

Yeah. It, it really did and it was really innovative and it also helped, I think, language learners to be confident and feel safe in the process because they had the perspectives of both hearing people and deaf people and explanation could be given from different perspectives.

00:18:05 Sarah

And it it worked, didn't it? They flourished… [Becky: Yes.]

00:18:07 Sarah

…within that environment.

00:18:08 Sarah

And I think also we also had as the side to that you know we, we had Deaf Centers around us. And we were, you know, socialising, engaging with the deaf community, we've also, you know, a requirement of being within an HE (Higher Education) context is that you'll go out and promote your program on, you know admissions event.

00:18:30 Sarah

And we were well known. Quite often there'll be only maybe one or two members of staff that will go out at, to different fairs and with their leaflets and sell their courses. And we were well known within the university and outside for going on mass as a team. [Tim chuckling] So, any, you know, relevant events around the country, you know, to promote what we were doing in our program.

00:18:50 Sarah

And not only did we have good fun, I think probably that...

00:18:55 Sarah

…that was seen, you know, by, by people in the environment. And we used to get a lot of inquiries by having a mass approach... [chuckles]

00:19:03 Sarah

Didn't we? [Tim chuckles] …to, to recruitment. Umm, we also had in the university in one of the buildings in those days we don't have it any longer, but we had a bar.

00:19:13 Sarah

And it was a staff and student bar and it was tucked away and it was lovely. It was this old wooden bar and the member of staff that ran it had travelled extensively. So, there were beer mats from every country that they'd been to [Tim lightly chuckling] pinned up around the inside of the bar behind the counter.

00:19:29 Sarah

And one evening a week, all the deaf community would turn up. So, you'd then have the deaf community mixing [Tim: mmm] with university staff, our subject staff with students. It was the most fantastic atmosphere, and that was a really good way of engaging with the deaf community, getting them into the university, understanding what we were doing, starting to work with us more as well.

00:19:53 Sarah

And that way we could, you know, develop and get more and more people from the community involved in assessments, exams, role plays, material creation, help them to develop, to become visiting lecturers as well, contribute to modules. So, you know it was a very holistic approach from the bar… [Tim and Becky lightly laughing]

00:20:12 Sarah

…as well as all of our external events.

00:20:15 Sarah

You know, engaging with the community and obviously, you know, major deaf organisations, local deaf organisations, we were pushing out in every way [Tim: mhmm] for people to understand what we were doing and to bring the outside in and work with us.

00:20:31 Tim

Yeah.

00:20:31 Tim

So, I hope everyone listening is taking note that “evolve your curriculum with alcohol”. [Sarah burst out laughing] OK, that sounds great.

00:20:39 Tim

That's wonderful. [Sarah: Only as advisable.] [Tim laughing]

00:20:41 Sarah

But no, it was. It was a good time, yeah. [Tim: Yeah, mmm]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:20:53 Tim

Throughout this time, did you see how the staff, or the student body evolved in some ways, you're like, “Wow, this group is different and you can see that.” Did you recognize that?

00:21:05 Sarah

Yeah, well, so if I look at it from a student perspective with, if I look from the early days onwards, I think now with increased visibility of sign language and media channels, [Tim: mmm] more and more people are seeing this as a viable career opportunity. And often early in life from sort of post A-level. So, they're planning for it, you know, quite early on.

00:21:29 Sarah

So, the cohorts, particularly at undergraduate levels, still comprise across a range of ages, but we're increasingly seeing a shift to more younger people choosing this as a career option, and that's an example, I think, of an evolving shift over time.

00:21:47 Sarah

And when we started teaching there is a requirement for in terms of staffing, you know, mastery of your subject, and a teaching qualification, or in the absence of to acquire one very quickly alongside, you know the other positive attributes that you could bring to the program. So, for example, your networks, your specific expertise and so on. [Tim: mhmm] And this still remains, but now with an addition and increasingly more recently the requirement to have a PhD or promote the individual's opportunity to acquire one.

00:22:23 Sarah

Now this was not the case, then. Remember, we've moved from Polytechnic status [Tim: mhmm] into university status only very recently.

00:22:30 Sarah

And in the early days of the course, you know, teaching was the required focus for staff. Research was undertaken then, but we were very heavily engaged… as I've said, you know, I've referred to the numbers we were dealing with of modules and students, and we were very heavily engaged as well with externally funded projects which Kristiaan Dekesel bought a lot of the funding, um, for us to do a lot of innovation.

00:22:56 Sarah

And these projects in turn, generated materials and content and fed back into the teaching and learning experience. So, our focus was very much sort of in those two areas in the early days, Becky.

00:23:09 Sarah

Do you have anything else you'll see?

00:23:10 Becky

Yeah. In the mid two hundreds, I have to put 2000s rather not 200 [Tim chuckles] in the mid… 2004 or 2005, we introduced a foundation course and for that it we meant that students who had no sign language experience but wanted to train as interpreters. [Tim: mmm] That gave them a language year immersion.

00:23:31 Becky

And we could fast track them. So, this was great because it meant that previously students had to do level one at night classes and that would take a year. Then they'd have to do level 2, and that would take another year. [Tim: mmm] So, in theory, this shaved off a year. And so, they could join the university, do, uh, with no sign language.

00:23:52 Becky

Have a full on year of language immersion and we would get them from knowing nothing up to the level 3 in a year.

00:24:01 Tim

Hmm.

00:24:01 Becky

And, and that proved to be incredibly successful. We used to run that class two or three times. I think for one year we actually ran it three times because we had such a huge number of students that wanted that fast track approach and that immersive language. And we had an incredible deaf and hearing team…

00:24:22 Becky

Who, um, who gave the, the students the language they needed to accelerate their learning process.

00:24:29 Becky

But we also gave them the receptive skills and we developed their beginning early writing skills in essay writing skills. [Tim: mhmm] So, we developed a really strong, holistically sound students when they joined the interpreting program at year one, they were confident they knew what was to be expected.

00:24:48 Becky

They knew the language rules because we had drilled it [Tim chuckling] into them, they knew exactly what we were saying with like I want this the grammar feature and they were confident, and it was a really popular course.

00:25:00 Becky

And we certainly found a mix bag of students who did that, especially mature students who's like, “I don't wanna do 2 years at night classes. I wanna get in, learn now” and we're developing a GCSE for sign language, which is a, a qualification that students will do around the age of 16 in the UK.

00:25:22 Becky

And that will, I think, will change again [Tim: mmm] what the university will see arriving or applying because they'll develop some language skills, they'll develop knowledge of the deaf community, some historical understanding of the deaf community, and then they'll apply for the university to further on develop their language skills. So, I can only imagine that will have some impact on the type of students that and the cohort that we'll see in a couple of years time.

00:25:52 Tim

You said BSL Level 3, where does that fall in the full registered interpreter level? As far as language.

00:26:01 Becky

And we have 6 levels and you've got your language, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6.

00:26:06 Becky

And then you do your interpreting.

00:26:09 Becky

I would say they were on their very strong, a good Level 3, would you say. Sarah? Would that be a good description?

00:26:15 Sarah

Yeah. And I think in those early days we didn’t have a level 6 as a description [Becky: No.] for interpreting and language skills.

00:26:23 Sarah

So yes, yes, I would agree with you Becky and it was hugely successful program. It ran for a very long time, and it was interesting because that cohort who went up directly into the first year of interpreter training would then mix with external applicants that who had studied at night school and come in and I think for quite a few of the external applicant, applicants… Obviously it could be quite a rapid time of change and learning for them because they've got this cohort that's already come up through the system.

00:26:51 Sarah

But useful, and sometimes we'd have applicants who were above that level and maybe wishing to join in the second semester of the first year, but decided to join with the first semester of that year to just recap, really. [Tim: mmm] Recap a bit, but also to get used to the methods and teaching structures that that cohort that had come up had already acquired.

00:27:14 Tim

And that gives a cohesive group. If they've gone through that foundation, I can see that as a blending into the interpreting program. [Sarah: Yeah, yeah] Is that still going, the foundation?

00:27:25 Sarah

No, it isn't. We made some changes because obviously the program evolves over time through internal and external requirements and professional body requirements as well.

00:27:36 Sarah

And we've just in the last sort of couple of years revalidated the program and what we have now is we have most of our language teaching very intensively in the first year instead and the start of the second year. And then after that, they can decide whether they're going to pursue the deaf studies program in full with other subjects, or whether they’re continuing on their interpreting path.

00:28:00 Sarah

So, umm, the program, you know, we've been there in the early days and the program had many, many shifts and changes over the years.

00:28:08 Sarah

And you know it's a requirement every few years to (within a university) to look at your program. It's an opportunity to refresh your program to make any changes. Look at cohorts coming in and their learning and teaching requirements. Look at external requirements and that's a good time to sort of revalidate any changes and bring in new content and fresh content. So that's what we did. Just a couple of years ago.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:28:35 Tim

Thank you to all the hundreds of people following this podcast. If you want to hear from interpreters around the world and get the latest episodes, follow the podcast in your app. Just check out some of the links in the show notes to help you with that. Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:28:52 Tim

What collaborations or relationships have been formed with the university, with the program that have influenced the development over the years?

00:29:00 Sarah

Well, there are so many stakeholders really who influence or guide what we do and I've already obviously referred to some of them such as for example, you know what we're CACDP now known as the NRCPD for the BA and the MA programs, but also you know looking at the national and international opportunities invitations, and presence of our staff and our alumni in organizations such as ASLI, the Association of Sign Language Interpreters, WASLI, the World Association of Sign Language Interpreters, efsli, the European Forum of Sign Language Interpreters.

00:29:36 Sarah

So, you know, there's a presence there that there's a working within a range of different ways, projects, initiatives. Obviously our employers, you know we wouldn't be running a work placement program. We wouldn't be able to promote opportunities for our students without working so closely, all these people, our stakeholders in what we do. Along with statutory organisations such as the public sector or, you know, allied services that work there in staff research, so the collaborative work we do, you know in the UK and abroad, all of these influence the program too.

00:30:10 Sarah

And then lots of opportunities as well for situated learning experiences that we're able to provide for our students via internal university resources, whether it may be, for example, our, our courtrooms, our conference facilities, [Tim: mmm] our medical learning labs, you know any of those facilities that we use, as well as all the external employers and agencies that we use that come in and bring and share their expertise about the services that they're delivering.

00:30:41 Sarah

So really, all of these people are stakeholders who influence, you know, the design on the content of our program and the direction and what we do alongside obviously our, us, our teaching team.

00:30:52 Tim

Hmm.

00:30:53 Becky

Despite leaving university 13 years ago and thought well, I'll, I'll never. I'll never get back in there. It's… never mind. And you know, my life moved on. I had, I had a child. We, we lived in the States for 6 1/2 years.

00:31:05 Becky

I had a wonderful time. And I, I didn't think I would be back in with the university, and it's been great because…

00:31:13 Becky

Since coming back, I retrained as a teacher of the Deaf.

00:31:16 Becky

And I updated my interpreting qualification, and I went back and did the postgrad route because I've been out of interpreting for a very long time. [Tim: mmm] So now I take on work placement students, so that's great. And because I'm based in a school in London, it's a school for the Deaf.

00:31:34 Becky

I have workplace with students who will come and work in the school and they'll see deaf education. [Tim: mhmm]

00:31:42 Becky

They'll see the interpreters at work. They see me at work modulating and modifying the language when needed for my deaf teenagers.

00:31:51 Becky

And then they'll come and work and shadow me when I work as an interpreter in the community. So, they've got a really good breadth and range of experience, whether it's education, working with teenagers. I mean, who doesn't love a teenager? [Tim laughing with Becky]

00:32:06 Becky

…and challenging and the challenges that they bring and then working with the deaf community and working with the older deaf community.

00:32:14 Becky

We've also myself and my line manager, Katherine O'Grady-Bray. We were asked to deliver the Deaf Education module last year to the undergrad students and we delivered all of that remotely because we're in London. The university is obviously in Wolverhampton, and we delivered a whole module of deaf education, and so it's been great to still be able to contribute.

00:32:36 Becky

But I'm contributing in a completely different way as either workplace and supervisor or with my experience now as a teacher of the deaf. [Tim: mmm]

00:32:44 Becky

And it's great to see the workplace and students who arrive here. And they say, “Oh, I get it. I can see, you know what you're trying to do in education and then how that impacts as an interpreter in the community” and what, what strategies we use to teach language. I’m a communications teacher.

00:33:04 Becky

So, I’ll teach communication. I teach English.

00:33:06 Becky

And they go, “Ohh…”. I said, “So actually watching me teach English is a really useful skill for when you're looking and working in the deaf community and doing trans- sight-translations or understanding where their, where their struggles are with the English language. [Tim: mmm]

00:33:22 Becky

So, it’s been great to be able to develop and, uh, utilize all my years of teaching, [Tim: hmm] and my knowledge of the field and to then pass on to the work placement students. And I do love it because they come up all the theory I go, “Gosh, I've forgotten that one” cause my head is in the completely different space [Tim chuckling] at the moment. It's in, you know, how do you teach fronted adverbials or how do you, you know, explain, you know, irregular verbs or whatever. It's not in the theory of, of the interpreting which is very much being pushed to the back of my mind at times.

00:33:51 Becky

Because I'm all… I'm in a very different headspace, so it's great to have those links with the university still. [Tim: mmm, hmm]

00:33:59 Sarah

And we're delighted that you still do as well. I mean, just from my perspective. Really we, as I've already said, you know, students and alumni are stakeholders of the program along with our external partners, employers and the communities we serve. And I would say I and my colleagues have worked consistently to maintain and develop these relationships for the benefit of all.

00:34:22 Sarah

An example of this being in 2011, I secured funding to establish IRIS, which is our International Research Interpreting Seminars [Tim: mhmm] and that's for students and alumni and it's an opportunity for all of them, employers, work placement hosts, external professionals...

00:34:43 Sarah

…to come in, share in the event, present on an area of skill, expertise, knowledge that they've researched on, you know, so we have a range of topics everything from broadcast media to sexual health interpreting. And our final year students interpret the event. So, it's an opportunity for them to work with the live speaker as well. And the same with our annual Deaf Studies and interpreting conferences too.

00:35:11 Sarah

And we look for opportunities to author with alumni.

00:35:15 Sarah

So, an example being, we had two alumni who went off to… one interpreting the area of sexual health interpreting, the other one is a sexual health educator. [Tim: hmm]

00:35:25 Sarah

So, knowing they were both doing this, I brought both of them together and from that said, how about doing an IRIS? They did the most fantastic IRIS, a two-parter. And they're now going around the country delivering this online. It's very, very successful and we authored a piece together.

00:35:43 Sarah

So, another example being you know working with workplace and supervisors and students, and we've authored like on as a triad between us on the, the scaffolded approach of the work placement experience from the supervisors perspective. My perspective, you know, obviously based within university and authoring the module and supporting and scaffolding them through critical reflective practice and from the students’ experience.

00:36:11 Sarah

And we also have experienced alumni who maybe are working in interpreting agencies, running agencies who will come in and share expertise. An example of this being on sight translation where in their agency they are delivering a sight translation service. So, they can give perspective from…

00:36:33 Sarah

You know, from running it and managing it as a service as well as actually delivering sight translation services. And we bring freelancers in who have got skills in those areas as well. So, they complement what we're doing in the classroom.

00:36:45 Sarah

And I think for students, once an external person comes in the light bulb goes on. The- these are people who have graduated. [Tim: hmm] They're using these skills, you know, we see the relevance as well, not only by what we're being taught, but the fact this is somebody who's actually going and using these skills outside in practice. So, there are so many ways we are constantly keeping in contact with our alumni.

00:37:11 Sarah

Helping them to further develop but also utilizing their expertise back in the programme for current students.

00:37:18 Tim

So, Becky, how did technology influence the program?

[4 seconds of silence]

00:37:24 Sarah

I can't lip read that well.

00:37:26 Tim

Yeah, it's really hard.

00:37:28 Becky

Sorry, sorry. [Tim chuckles] Technology. Yeah, I can't even unmute myself. That's not helpful is it? [Tim and Becky laugh]

00:37:35 Tim

You teach communications? Hmm. [laughter]

00:37:36 Becky

I know it's great, isn't it? Don't tell my head teacher. Umm… Technology, umm. As soon as I could see that, that technology was moving. I was like, “OK, I want the training. I want to see what we can do.” because the stress of teaching with VHS, it was just too much. [burst out laughing, Tim laughs too]

00:37:55 Becky

Students would overwrite their work. [Tim: hmm] They wouldn't have their VHS in the right spot when they turned up. You'd spend the first 10 minutes of the lecture getting it all, you know, and somebody invariably would never hit record when you've got your video. So, when we were able to use WOLF, which was the Wolverhampton Online Learning Framework…

00:38:16 Becky

I converted everything to a digital format, and it was amazing because a lot of our students did travel a fair way to get to our lectures. And so if the train was late or the child was home and it, they were sick, and they couldn't attend the, the lectures we could put so much stuff on an online learning framework. And you know, canvas hadn't really been developed at that time or Moodle. [Tim: mhmm] So, we had our programs were all on there with homework, forums, activities for students to do.

00:38:51 Becky

And you know, it enabled that the three-hour lecture, but seven hours of student directed learning to be really well structured and you could see who was engaging and who weren't. And, and then, you know, a new bit of software would come out and I'd go, “OK. I can see how I'm going to utilise this.” And I would be, “Sarah, look at this piece of technology.”

00:39:10 Becky

Sarah’s like, “Whatever you say, Becky.” [laughs out loud, Tim too] “You choose right. Whatever. Yes, it, it does look very good. But don't ask me to do it.” I'm like, “No, it does this. Push this button and then you do this and you change this.” Umm, and it was great because it really pushed the language teaching in my, in my perspective. [Tim: hmm]

00:39:26 Becky

It, it pushed uh, what I could do in the language teaching, and we could get a richer language learning experience because we would set up like an anonymous forum where they could do back translations of each other's work but not know who had done that back translation. Because obviously sign language is very visible who signed it, but not very evident who had written back translations.

00:39:48 Becky

And still today, you know, I'm, I'm looking at software and going, “Ohh, how can I use this to improve my teaching for my deaf kids? [Tim: hmm] Because technology is the way forward and my kids love technology. They would rather see something on screen than me standing in front of them sometimes. So, you've gotta find the sort of apps and software that we can utilise to develop teaching.

00:40:09 Sarah

Yeah. And that was, that was our WOLF system, which was called the Wolverhampton Online Learning Framework, and it was ahead of its time. You look back now, and you might say, well, some bits of it, the interface, it wasn't terribly intuitive, were a bit, were a bit clunky. But it was really ahead of the time now. So, we could throw out the VHS tapes.

00:40:29 Sarah

And suddenly put videos online, which was tremendous.

00:40:32 Sarah

And also, you know, we were ahead of our time in terms of… obviously COVID changed a lot with online interpreting, but we were teaching it quite a way before COVID hit. And I think you know one of the things with technology, you know, particularly younger students coming onto the program, they're, they're already well geared with technology. They're comfortable with it. But I think you know, driving technology forward from the early 2000s on the program if you look at core skills that employers are looking for in terms of employability of a graduate, that was a very key element about helping them to be more employer-ready in a technological sense, which was great.

00:41:13 Sarah

And the creativity and ease, I mean in the old days we had a teaching classroom that had a Space Deck, a bit like something out of Star Trek for managing. It was for us then, you know, [Tim chuckling] for managing, I don't know what was it 30 or 40 televisions with VHS recorders?

00:41:31 Sarah

And you'd say to everybody, right, I'm gonna press the button now. Everybody get your finger on record. So, we've all got the master recording that's gonna play now and always someone went, “Ohh. I slipped on the button.” “Ohh, I forgot to record.” “Did I need to record?” So right, “Everybody stop. Rewind the VHS tape. Right. Hands up in the air. Are we ready to hit record?” [Tim chuckles] Do you remember it?

00:41:54 Becky

And your first 10 minutes of your lecture was wasted just for technology. I mean, Tim, you're laughing. Do you remember? Did you have the same experience with the VHS tapes? [laughter]

00:42:02 Tim

Yes, we did have those. Yeah. [Becky: OK] And it was like I just spent 30 minutes doing that and I forgot to press  record.

00:42:08 Becky

Yeah. [laughing]

00:42:11 Becky

Or you'd have people walk behind you.

00:42:13 Becky

And then go, “Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.” [Tim laughing] And then try and walk past without interrupting your signing. Ohh yes. Yeah.

00:42:20 Becky

The, the, the funny moments. I remember one student submitted their assignments on a VHS tape and they were sat on a rock in a beautiful background. They've been obviously back home and they've got by the sea.

00:42:32 Becky

And I just thought that's a great bit of signing, but not what I kind of expected to submit your assignment on. [Tim chuckling] But with the beauty of phones now and the quality on, on mobile phones, you know, some of the filming I do for my students is on my mobile phone.

00:42:45 Becky

I would never have thought that. In fact, when we looked at technology and how technology, how the sign’s changed.

00:42:52 Becky

I remember saying to the students, “Oh, well, this is how the sign has changed. We've got a flip phone, you know, and maybe one day we might have something where you could sign in front of the phone” and the students would go, “Nah, that will never happen.” And it's like, and now we've got… We've actually got that. Gosh, it's amazing. Just to see how far the technology has come and how, you know, the thought of signing on your phone was just a pipe dream back then. [Tim: yeah] It is incredible how far and fast it's developed.

00:43:20 Tim

Yeah.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:43:26 Tim

What more can I say than what history is teaching us? I hope you're learning how to tweak and influence your programs. Your education as an individual or as a teacher or administrator. Next week, in the last of this series, we'll hear some of the amazing and fun moments from these key figures.

00:43:46 Tim

From Megan, Sarah, Becky and from several alumni of this program. Until then, keep calm, keep historically interpreting. I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:44:38]