Revelation Within On the Go!
The Love of God Transforms Us: Tim King interviews Heidi and Christina
Join Tim King, Heidi, and Christina in this podcast episode as we explore the intimate experience of God's love transforming our lives. We move beyond mere knowledge to embodying God's love, sharing personal stories of overcoming doubt and guilt with the healing power of grace.
Tim, preparing for a new Men's Mind Renewal, Revelation Within class, shares his journey from intellectual understanding to a profound encounter with God's love. Christina and Heidi discuss how these realizations reshape our relationships and empower us to face life's challenges with renewed faith.
We use the metaphor of life as a road trip with Jesus as our constant guide, navigating the highs and lows. So, come along for a soul-stirring journey to embrace God's love fully.
To find out more about our upcoming Mind Renewal Men's class: https://www.revelationwithin.org/MR101-men
Get details about our class starting July 17th at https://www.revelationwithin.org/blueprint
Learn more about our Revelation Within Community: https://www.revelationwithin.org
Join Tim King, Heidi, and Christina in this podcast episode as we explore the intimate experience of God's love transforming our lives. We move beyond mere knowledge to embodying God's love, sharing personal stories of overcoming doubt and guilt with the healing power of grace.
Tim, preparing for a new Men's Mind Renewal, Revelation Within class, shares his journey from intellectual understanding to a profound encounter with God's love. Christina and Heidi discuss how these realizations reshape our relationships and empower us to face life's challenges with renewed faith.
We use the metaphor of life as a road trip with Jesus as our constant guide, navigating the highs and lows. So, come along for a soul-stirring journey to embrace God's love fully.
To find out more about our upcoming Mind Renewal Men's class: https://www.revelationwithin.org/MR101-men
Get details about our class starting July 17th at https://www.revelationwithin.org/blueprint
Learn more about our Revelation Within Community: https://www.revelationwithin.org
Hi and welcome to our podcast Revelation Within On the Go. I'm Heidi Bilesma-Epperson, one of your hosts and the owner and lead coach of the RevelationWithinorg ministry.
Speaker 2:And I'm Christina Motley, your other host, also a Revelation Within coach and Heidi's partner in all things Revelation Within, and I'm so happy to invite you to this episode of Revelation Within On the Go.
Speaker 1:Today we're welcoming Tim with us again. Today, tim King is one of our faithful participants in all things. Revelation.
Speaker 3:Within, really.
Speaker 1:And he's going to be teaching a men's class this coming June. We're so excited to have you back with us, Tim Yay.
Speaker 3:Well, I am extremely glad to be back and I need to get used to introducing myself. So I'm Tim King. I'm the newest member of Revelation Within.
Speaker 2:Oh, we're so glad to have you with us, Tim.
Speaker 3:And I have been talking to Christina and Heidi about a subject that's dear to all of us and that's the love of God. There's two sides to that coin, because you can't understand and feel and be in relationship with God and experience his love without, in turn, having the other side of the coin, which is our response to that love of.
Speaker 2:God.
Speaker 3:Because we feel that it's so critical that people understand and experience the love of God, we wanted to do a podcast on it this morning, and I don't think there's any better place to start than a verse that we're all familiar with, no matter what walk of life we're in, and that's John 3, 16, where God so loved the world. But, as you know, with Revelation Within, we love to use mind renewal tools and one of our favorites is personalizing that because, I think definitely we can look at john 316 in a very vague and general sense.
Speaker 3:But if you put your own name in so, for example, for god so loved tim, for god so loved heidi, or God so loved Christina, it becomes very personal. And then we go on to read that he loved us so much that he gave us his own son. A little bit of history here. That was good and sound it always has been. It's been something that's resonated with me and sound it always has been it's been something that's resonated with me. But just recently that became something that was not just facts, not just knowledge. It became something that was experiential.
Speaker 3:So yay, awesome god's love went from my head to my heart and as I shared previously in another podcast that I did is that that literally shifts your whole world?
Speaker 1:Because, now.
Speaker 3:It's something that makes everything different. At this point, I'm going to ask Christina and Heidi a question related to what their experience with this verse, what their experience with John 3.16 is, where it became relevant in their lives and how it impacts their life now.
Speaker 1:Go for it.
Speaker 2:Great question. It is a great question. I love it, tim, thank you so much for preparing for this time together. It's wonderful to have you lead us. Yeah, how fun.
Speaker 2:You know, I have been a Christian since I was a little girl. Like you, tim, I was raised in church and raised with the Bible and Bible study and Sunday school and being involved in a very tiny, tiny little church that I grew up in. My whole family was very involved in the church. My mom did all the music, my dad did everything else, it seemed, and I thought that I was good to go. You know, I thought this is what this is it. This is what it is.
Speaker 2:But as I got older and even really as a teenager, I began to struggle with a stronghold and you know people have heard me talk about this before in the podcast and that that stronghold for me was food and eating and there's a lot of reasons that that came about and it kind of grew and it was kind of my big secret and I really didn't know or didn't get or didn't understand how to connect scripture with my experience, with what was going on with me. I thought, well, I know what the Bible says, I have read the Bible. I've read so much of this. I've studied, I've been in all kinds of groups and, you know, shared around the circle with you know, legs crossed, you know lots and lots of times and I thought I don't know how this connects to this stronghold. It felt like it was separate, like I couldn't bring it together, and I thought maybe it doesn't go together. You know, maybe my job is to take care of this somehow and fix it, and then I'll come back over to God and say, ok, let's continue on. I did not understand that God's truth was what would set me free, that his love for me would set me free, right in the middle of the stronghold that I was struggling with. And so years and years went by and I had a wonderful life, full of blessing, you know, a wonderful marriage to my high school sweetheart, and three kids came along. I loved being a teacher, that was my career.
Speaker 2:We moved to Colorado and still I had this struggle going on inside of me and really inside of my mind, you know, with my thoughts, and I thought, boy, it's just getting worse and worse. It was getting worse and worse, but I didn't know what to do with it. I didn't know how to talk about it. Nobody else was talking about that kind of thing that I knew. So I continued to go to church and do my life and then have kind of the secret struggle and it was pretty, pretty severe, I mean it was. I was feeling really, really hopeless with it.
Speaker 2:Anyway, finally, after many, many years, I took it to God and I just put it all before him and I said, lord, I don't know what to do with this. I am at such a loss. I've tried to fix it myself and I'm so sorry that I haven't been able to. I did that again and again. I filled journals with those words again and again and in the midst of all that, he was trying to tell me Christina, I love you, and that's it. Period, period, that's it. You know not here's 10 steps that you need to do before you come to me and I love you, or here's the way you should act, or here's what you need to do you come to me and I love you, or here's the way you should act, or here's what you need to do. There was none of that. It was like he was trying to break through. I see that now and just say to me, christina, I love you, as is the way you are, with the stronghold, with everything else that you're struggling with. I love you. Those words, you know, and he was trying to break through.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't until Heidi and I got together and started coaching and this whole idea of the renewing of the mind. I had read Romans 12 many, many, many times before, but it was all in my head, like you said, tim, it wasn't in my heart. I just didn't have any idea what that really meant and I thought, well, maybe it's kind of for everybody else, maybe it's not really for me, I don't know. But when I started working with Heidi and started renewing my mind I mean like a lot, like several times a day I realized that God was just saying to me so simply but so powerfully Christina, I love you, and not only that, but I have everything. You need Everything, everything, and not only that, but I have everything. You need Everything, everything. I'm your portion, I'm enough for you, I'm the exact thing that you need, christina, for anything and everything. That's challenging you. And that's really when scripture came to life for me in a whole new way, and I'm just so, so grateful, yay.
Speaker 3:Now I want to hear from Heidi as well, but just a question for you, christina do you think that there are other people out there that are dealing with the same questions you had?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, in fact, I'm not really sure that there is anyone that isn't yeah. I kind of feel like oh my gosh, this is the human condition. You know, we are all struggling with something and we are all feeling like we don't measure up and we're all feeling like we can't fix it.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Well, we can't. Yes, and we can't. You're right, heidi. It's not our job to fix it, because we are loved by the God. Who can?
Speaker 3:And it's interesting what you heard, because those were the three words that changed my life.
Speaker 2:I love you Yay.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful, tim. Well, thanks Tim for asking this question. And I think for me, the turning point was when I was experiencing failure upon failure upon failure, beating myself up. I couldn't hate myself into positive change and I would read God's word, and I think it really clicked when I was reading Romans 5.8 at one point. But God, I love that. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this. While we were yet sinners, christ died for us.
Speaker 3:What, oh my goodness, okay, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:You're saying to me that before I ever had a Godward thought, lord, you sent Jesus to die for me and that goes back to um, to John 3, 16, of course, that God sent his son into the world and not to condemn the world that's verse 17, but that the world might be saved through him. So how was I perceiving God in all those times when I was struggling with failure and beating myself up and trying to hate myself? In the positive change, he was waiting to show me compassion. It says in Isaiah. He was wanting to be my solution. He was wanting to be my. I am and that's who he is. But when you think about it, he demonstrated his love. I mean, there's another one in Romans that says God who gave his son for us. How will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
Speaker 2:I mean hello. Heidi Hello.
Speaker 1:Hello, I'm on my head here, yeah. And that's when it began to really gel and I began to look at my failures differently, by taking them to him and saying differently. By taking them to him and saying, okay, here it is, this is me. You died you. You sent your son to die for me. You demonstrated your love for me before I ever had a Godward thought, before I ever was, before I had it together, before I ever. And I don't have it together. And so I'm going to bring it to you and say what do we do now, Lord? What do we do with this?
Speaker 1:And that's when he showed me that he wants to redeem. If he can redeem a Roman cross, he can redeem my silly little failures Absolutely. And more than that, he, through that process, he builds with me an intimacy between the two of us that just is beyond. I never could have dreamed that I would experience intimacy with the God of the universe through my failures. I mean that's what he used to draw me in. I mean that's amazing, that's just amazing. So free it absolutely is. Yeah, absolutely it is. So that's kind of the short version. And then there's all kinds of ways that that then caused me to look back over my life and see where he was wooing me all along the way, and it's so cool to start looking at that.
Speaker 3:Yes for sure, and the interesting thing, like that's an amazing verse. But then you consider a verse that where it says that he planned to redeem us before the creation of the world, before the foundation of the world, like so, when he created man, he knew already what it would cost him. And to me, how how can I even perceive or comprehend what that?
Speaker 3:means exactly and when we start to look at verses like that and verses that say that, uh, that he, he chose us before the foundation of the world ephesians, chapter one, that he adopted us as sons. But it wasn't even a chore for him, because that verse ends with that. It was according to his pleasure.
Speaker 3:Pleasure yes, and to me that just I don't even know where to go with that because it's so far beyond the way that I look at things. On the way that I look at things, I'd like to shift the direction a little bit here because of that, because I think that we can look at the love of God every day, but unless we consider how it impacts us and what should happen because of that love, it's kind of becomes a mute subject and after a while it almost becomes a second subject and after a while it almost becomes second half.
Speaker 1:Like a Hallmark greeting card. Yes, god loves you and so do I. No, no, no.
Speaker 3:But sometimes that almost seems and forget the second part. God loves me and we can get lost in that. But one of the things that I've realized since coming and joining Revelation Within is that the more we understand the love of God and the more it impacts our lives and our experience, the more it calls for an answer from us.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love that.
Speaker 3:I feel like a newbie here and I feel like a learner, because both of you have so much experience and you've been rehearsing these things. So, christina, a question for you in relationship to your sin how does understanding the love of God impact the way you treat your sin?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a good question, tim. Wow, I'm impressed with your questions. That's so good because that was that's where I was at. That's exactly where I was at, asking that question and not having any idea where to go with my sin, because it just continued. It was consuming me and, like I was saying, basically I was using food as a counterfeit comfort.
Speaker 2:I was going to it for my needs rather than to the Lord, and I I felt so horrible about that, I felt so ashamed and so, you know, hopeless about it, and I just couldn't seem to get out of the cycle of guilt and shame and guilt and shame. I did it again and here I go and I'm still, and I was in this pattern again and again. And so of course there was other sin in my life, but that was the one that was bringing me down and the enemy was definitely using it to kind of pound me slowly into the ground. And I don't know where I got this from, I don't know, but my belief was that if I was guilty enough, if I felt bad enough, you know, if I was mean enough to God's word that's not what it says, but somehow that's where I was and somehow that's what I believe that's where I was stuck and so, as I mentioned before, I filled journal after journal after journal with these long, long sessions of I'm sorry, god, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'll do better, I'll do better, I'll fix this, I'll do better, I'll fix this. You know that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:And so I was stuck in a place where I couldn't find freedom, and I did have thoughts like this doesn't feel right, it doesn't line up with who God is. You know, when I look to see who God is in the Bible, this, it doesn't make sense. God talks about freedom. He talks about abiding joy and abundant life. And I thought what's wrong with this picture? How am I approaching my sin in a way that doesn't line up with God and his character? But, like I said, I really couldn't get anywhere with it until I began renewing my mind with scripture, personalizing it, pulling the truth, the everlasting truth, out of his own words, and then washing my mind with it, wallpapering my mind with it, getting the old lies out.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And what was the truth? I mean, what was the truth? And it took me a while to believe it because I thought, wait a minute, I've really been off base here for a long, long time. The truth was God loves me right now and my sin, you know, he's covered it. The cross took care of that. I am washed clean in his sight, I am redeemed, I am radiant. You know I was walking around thinking, oh, you know I'm so basically dirty. You know I'm so blemished I've let God down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm so messed up and on the outside, you know, I pretended that wasn't how I felt, but when I was alone, late at night, that's when it came out, that's how I felt and that's you know. The truth of that God has for us is that we are already set free. He has already done the work. He knew, you know, that this would all come to be, and he designed a way for us to be in relationship with him that would be full of life, full of joy, full of abundance, even in this crazy, messy, upside down world messy upside down world.
Speaker 2:So my whole view of sin and how I deal with it with the Lord has changed. Now, when I mess up which I do all the time in all different ways, not just with food and eating, but my marriage, parenting, everything I take it to the Lord and I say okay, god, here's another one, let's deal with it together. And I'm not afraid to bring that to him. In fact, I want to run there, I want to run to him so that we can work it out together.
Speaker 2:And then he redeems again, and again, and again. And it's beautiful, it is.
Speaker 3:No condemnation. Exactly, and that is the neat part of it? Because the interesting part is that when we confessed Jesus as Lord, our sins past, present and future were wiped off the table. We were given a clean slate, because otherwise we couldn't go into the Father's presence If he didn't see us, through Jesus, as righteous, there would be no way, because he's without sin, right.
Speaker 1:He who knew no sin, jesus became sin for us so that in him we might become what the righteousness of God. That's just incredible.
Speaker 2:It is incredible. I mean, it's a love that we can't even imagine. It's so big. It's so so big and so so powerful, right.
Speaker 3:And in our weaknesses he's strong. Yeah, his strength is made perfect in our weakness weakness, and why I bring that verse up, heidi, is it helps me in asking you the same question that I just asked, christine, because I've come into revelation within. You've been doing this for years and years and years, and a lot of times I'm inclined to put you on a pedestal.
Speaker 1:Oh, dear, don't do that. I'm inclined to put you on a pedestal, oh dear.
Speaker 3:Don't do that, but it helps when I can relate to you this way, where I hear you saying well, this is the issue that I struggled with, but for you the same question how does your comprehension of God's love influence you in the area of sin?
Speaker 1:Thank you, tim, for your thoughtfulness in bringing these questions to us. Really, the nutshell is in the past, before God kind of shed the light on what I was up to and doing and what he wanted me to do. Instead, I would run. I would run, okay, I knew God was gracious and so, since he wasn't going to nail me to the wall for my sin, he'd already taken care of that. I was going to punish myself, and I punished myself by separating myself from God, and it felt lonely, it felt awful, it didn't feel like there was any chance for change, it was an awful place to be. And then it was like, almost like I had this built-in sense of okay. Step one is, you know, remove myself from God's presence because I don't deserve his grace, which is ridiculous, of course. But step two would be okay, as soon as enough days have gone by, then come back moping and putting my tail between my legs and see if he still wants to have anything to do with me. This is all from the enemy.
Speaker 1:It really is. And so for me, yes, it did. It played on the shame I already had that came with me from my history, and then it added to it. It's like can't you do anything? The voice of the enemy is just. You know God's holding out on you. You're no good, you can't do this. Why do you even try? No, that's how I was before God got a hold of me with his truth, the truth of all the scriptures that speak of his love and many of which we've spoken of already. Now I run, like Christina said, I go to him with it and say what will we do with this?
Speaker 2:This is an us problem, not just a Heidi, oh, I love that this is an us problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he wants to be in it with me, and he is Even when I am going in. You know whether it's the fridge I'm going to when I'm not hungry, or saying a word to somebody I love that's sharp and embittered, or a lack of forgiveness. God is right there with me in that, saying let's deal with this together. Let's deal with this together. I have a solution for this. I want to be your balm of Gilead. I want to tender your heart.
Speaker 1:I want to give you a way of thinking that keeps you out of bitterness or brings you to a place of comfort that is true comfort. He calls himself the God of all compassion, the God of all comfort, and his Holy Spirit is our comforter. So I mean, what does that tell us about his character? I mean, I can't think of anything and he's our protector. I don't know about you guys, but you know you, tim and Christina but for me those were two things that really were lacking in my upbringing comfort and protection and the fact that God wants to be those. Yes, yeah, I want to come to him. I want to come to him and let him do whatever it is he wants to do with me, and so very often he totally surprises me. And then, on top of that, when I realized that his cross him on it because he chose to be on it and he gave up his life. And not only that, but he came. I'm starting to preach.
Speaker 3:Oh well.
Speaker 1:He came from heaven. He existed in triune, bliss with the father and the spirit. I own bliss with the father and the spirit. He stepped down out of heaven, took on the flesh of a man and then became obedient to the cross death on a cross, I mean, he was obedient, didn't consider his status, if you will, as God something to cling to, because he knew for the joy set before him he could have us. What that is so crazy, you know. I mean I've combined verses from Philippians and.
Speaker 1:Hebrews there. But I mean, it's just astonishing to me that he would do that, and so I can see my life now as against the backdrop of the cross which is so powerful. Against the backdrop of the cross which is so powerful that he not only did he come from being God, very God, and take on the flesh of man and go to the cross, but he did that because of the joy set before him, which was us, which was me. Anyway, I don't know if that answers your question.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and, and I just love it because, as other people listen to this podcast, the struggles that you've faced, a lot of people are still in and they haven't found the relief, they haven't found the answer. I so willingly and joyfully joined Revelation Within is that with coming to a new understanding of the Word of God and how we can renew our minds with it, how we can personalize it, how we can bring it home, because that's really what we're doing and that's where, as a Christian, I was missing it, because the other side of shame and guilt and I'll just share before I have another question but is that from a knowledge base and being in my mind, having learned all these disciplines of reading my Bible, having my quiet time doing it?
Speaker 1:I was an okay, guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, more than okay, more than okay.
Speaker 3:And I heard somebody talking about guilt and shame. I'm thinking, oh, I can't relate. But what happened to me last October, when I experienced the love of God from my head to my heart, is that all the sudden, the guilt and the shame was there and what I looked at as being okay before was not okay anymore, because we've all sinned and fallen very short of the glory of God and in experiencing his love, the things that I just glossed over before and made excuses for all of the sudden became just right in your face.
Speaker 3:And the question is, how can you, now that you understand God's love it's kind of that verse where, because of God's grace and the abundance of it, should we carry on sinning so that his grace may abound? And when you understand God's love, the answer is no, no, no, please.
Speaker 2:May it never be.
Speaker 3:And the neat part for me was that just in a matter of days, weeks, I cleaned my life up. I cleaned my thought life up, because how could I not, when God loves me so much, like he gave everything to me? So how could I carry on with the thoughts that didn't please him, how could I carry on watching things that didn't please him Like? So? It brought a whole new understanding.
Speaker 1:Now, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:Another challenging question for us. You're first. We should let Heidi go first this time, I think, in relationship to the love of God again, how do you come to understand, how do you relate to the guilt and the shame that you still feel?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think for me, when I get stuck in a place of guilt and shame and I do I have lots of practice for 60 years practicing feeling guilt, feeling shame. First of all, I know, you know, I want to invite God in.
Speaker 1:But number one is is there sin in my life to confess? Because if we will confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. We know that from 1 John 1.9. And so I do want to take care of that right away. Is there something I know is sin? I want to ask him that because even if my conscience doesn't tell me there's sin there, I know God's going to tell me the truth.
Speaker 3:Can I interrupt for a second. Because on the other side of that. I think sometimes by going to him he'll show us that really there is no sin there. You're living on rehearsed guilt and shame.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's powerful. That is powerful. And who is the accuser? Who stands before God's throne night and day accusing us? It's the enemy of our souls who, if he can get us to believe that we're guilty when we're not, or that we're guilty and can't be forgiven, he can get us to a point where we won't stand up, we will hide, we will keep our tail tucked between our legs and hide under the bed or hide in the closet and not speak forth. We'll be impotent for the Lord. And so you are exactly right.
Speaker 1:Whether it's false guilt or true guilt of sin, I want to bring that to the Lord too. I want to bring that false guilt Okay, hallelujah, there isn't any true guilt, absolutely. That false guilt Okay, hallelujah, there isn't any true guilt, absolutely. And then, as far as shame goes, to me, shame is something that it's very different than conviction. Conviction is very specific. It comes from the Lord and the Holy Spirit convicts me of sin specifically. But shame is I am bad or I am that sin, and that is not from God. Sometimes I need to take that shame and confess it as a sin.
Speaker 3:You know like.
Speaker 1:Lord, I'm not believing you. You have freed me from this. I don't need to own that shame anymore. And again, if I didn't know him to be loving, if I had continued in the way that I live much of my life, attributing to God attributes of a fallible human authority figure like my own human, earthly dad, I couldn't do this. I couldn't do this. I wouldn't believe for a minute that he would have anything to do with me.
Speaker 1:But because he is who he is and he reveals that to us in his word, because he is who he is, I can come to him and know that he is delighting that I'm bringing it to him. He has waited to show me compassion. I don't want to keep him waiting any longer, and so I just think that it's his character that enables me to bring him the shame, to bring him true guilt if I have it, false guilt if it's there, and invite him to bring his solutions to bear in my life. So it doesn't mean I'm all free from all the shame I've ever experienced, but it means I am a lot. I mean I know he has paid the price for me to be free, because when Jesus died on the cross, he died for the sin and the shame as well.
Speaker 1:I really believe that with all my heart, and so it's a matter of practicing believing what a shame-free person is going to think, and I really believe he gives me this. He gives us everything we need for life and godliness, so he will definitely. How will he not also, along with Jesus, not give us everything we need? So I don't know if that answered your question, tim.
Speaker 3:Yes, and adding to that, I don't think that any of us is short of eternity with Jesus will be ever totally free of shame, guilt, because that's probably the most basic sin or area of weakness that we can fall into, and it's the one that Satan probably uses the most.
Speaker 1:Oh, I think you're right, because I think at the heart of shame is where do I get my sense of identity? Yes, am I getting my sense of identity from my shame? I mean, I have just, even as I'm saying these words, I'm thinking of the areas of my life where I still struggle with shame and that God is working on me. But will I instead get my sense of identity from what God says is true? He says I'm more than a conqueror. He says I'm his beloved. I mean, we can go on, as you very well can, because I know you, but I need to choose to get my sense of identity from what God says. Will I believe God and what he says is true, and will I practice thinking his thoughts about who I am?
Speaker 3:And Christina, I want to come back to you with that question, but before I do, I want to put a plug in here Because, as you've listened to us talk, you've probably we've referred to many of the mind renewal tools who God is, who we are in Christ, who God is, who we are in Christ.
Speaker 3:The power tools, the mind renewal power tools are vital in relationship to changing the way we view ourselves. And when we take our God list and start to list out all of the things that God is and who he is, and then when we take the who I am list who I am in Christ, I'm redeemed, I'm a child of the living God, I'm loved, I'm beloved the more we take those mind renewal tools and use them, the more we can bring them into every moment of our lives, let alone once or twice a day, the more we'll be able to immediately like if a thought of shame or guilt comes into our mind. Immediately we can say no, that's not me, I'm not there, right, I'm God's beloved, I'm righteous. So a lot of the things that we're talking about can be brought into focus by using mind renewal tools.
Speaker 1:Yes, and Tim is teaching a man-only class starting June 26th 2024. So if you have a man in your life who may be blessed by learning how to renew his mind in a whole new way, or if you are a man, then consider joining Tim and find out more at revelationwithinorg.
Speaker 3:Just to put another plug in for that. I firmly believe that if you'll register for that class in six to eight weeks your life will be changed and you will not go back to living the way you were. Because the material that Heidi and Christina have put together for us in that mind renewal it helps you to take scripture in, it teaches you what really the Holy Spirit is there for, it shows you hindrances to renewing your mind. It's just a life course in eight weeks.
Speaker 2:So yay, it is. It absolutely. It's an amazing class and I got to give Heidi credit for writing it. I come alongside and teach it with her.
Speaker 3:And to bring us back into our conversation, christina, the same question to you and because we all relate to it differently, in terms of the shame, the condemnation, the guilt, how do you put that into perspective in relationship to how you now understand? God loves you.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, you're probably going to laugh at my illustration, but I'm a person that is, I don't know, I'm very visual. I need to like grab a hold of something and kind of see it in my mind. I need to like grab a hold of something and kind of see it in my mind. So I'm going to share with you how I do that, and maybe it will help somebody who's listening who has struggled with this, because I didn't know, I couldn't see it Like, I couldn't figure this thing out. You know, it's like, well, I'm not perfect, I can't be perfect. So how in the world do we do this thing, lord? How does it work? You know, until I get to heaven, and then it'll all be taken care of.
Speaker 2:And so he gave me a picture, basically, of the two of us on a journey together in my VW bug. Okay, so bear with me. I have this little convertible VW bug and it's a totally imperfect car. It's falling apart pretty much every day, but I love it. I feel so comfortable and full of joy in it, and so I think of myself as inviting God to join me on the journey.
Speaker 2:And some people might say I'm going to have God drive. I'm going to have Jesus, you know, take the wheel. And I think, no, that doesn't really work, because he's given me free will, he's given me the choice to do whatever I want to do, basically. And so I imagine him in the passenger seat and I'm driving and I have the choice to go slow or fast, turn left or right, do whatever. Whatever I want to do, the first thing that is so, so, so, so important is saying God, come on in the car, jesus, come here. This is your spot. I want you to drive this journey with me, and I'm excited.
Speaker 2:And so, then, what helps me so much is to think of Jesus as my very best friend, and I think of my best friends in my life, and one of them is sitting right here, my very best friend, and I think what would it be like to take a driving trip, to journey with that person? What is that like? Well, I know what that's like. In many ways, it's wonderful when I'm with my best friend. I feel totally accepted, I feel totally loved, I feel like I'm cared for, I'm good and we share the journey together. I'm not alone. That's really big for me. Okay, so the first thing that I might do when Jesus gets in the car is. I might say okay, lord, can you just make my path straight? And then we're going to have this wonderful, easy journey. Can you just fix everything and make it straight? And he says no. And I say, well, why not? You can, you can do anything. And he says, because that would be so much less than it would be. That would be taking the richness out of our journey.
Speaker 2:The journey is going to be rich because I'm going to teach you, christina. I'm going to teach you on this journey and we're going to teach you, christina, I'm going to teach you on this journey and we're going to have some hard times and we're going to go up and down some hills and there's going to be storms and valleys. And I'm telling you, some of these potholes are going to throw you and you know there's going to be some stuff here coming up, but I will be with you, trust me, and let's go. You know, let's go, trust me, it's going to be so good when you get to the other side of these things. There's gifts that are there. I mean, you're just going to love it.
Speaker 2:And so I'm like okay, lord, when I first started I was a little nervous, hesitant, because, of course, the potholes, that can be shame, that can be guilt, that can be sin, turning left instead of right, when I knew absolutely that God just told me to turn right and I went left with you know, intentionality, I mean, that happens right. One of the things that I struggled with for so long, with guilt and shame, is being a failure and quitting.
Speaker 2:So I thought this is me. I am owned by my failure, this is who I am. I would say things to myself like well, that's, I guess, that's how I am, that's the thorn in my side, that's how God made me. You know, this is just what I struggle with, rather than looking to God to see what he might do, and so I was very much owned by it, and I would quit again and again.
Speaker 2:Well, now, being in the car and my little VW bug with the top down, with the Lord, I'm not quitting, we're not stopping, we just go and go and go, there's no stopping. And he's in the car with me, he's not getting out, I'm not getting out, we are continuing on. There's no more quitting, no more stops and starts. And for me, oh, my gosh, that's so freeing, it feels so good. And so, when something comes up, when there is a valley, when there's a pothole, when there's a big storm, when I intentionally turn the wrong way and the Lord has, you know, already given me wisdom about going a different way, that kind of thing All I have to do is turn. He's right there. I mean, he knows, he knows before I even turn. He's right there, he's in the car with me, he's not far away, he's not like, oh, I've pushed God away. That, nope, that's a lie. I cannot push him away. He's in the car with me and he will never leave. Before I sneeze, he's handing me a tissue, you know, before I need anything.
Speaker 2:He knows he knows my needs. This is fun too for me. I have to share this because the way that I've come to know the Lord is so personal. So, for example, he knows what makes me laugh. You know we're journeying together and he knows, he knows what's going to make me laugh and he knows what makes me laugh. You know we're journeying together and he knows, he knows what's going to make me laugh and he knows what makes me cry and he knows he sees it coming. He sees the whole journey in front of me, he knows all of it and he knows what's going to be just devastating to me when we get there. And he's ready and he's preparing me and he's giving me experiences that will prepare me, but he'll never, ever leave, never get out of the car.
Speaker 2:You know a lot of people and myself, um, I'll hear people say God feels so distant. I feel like our relationship, like you know he's distant. Where is he? Why don't I hear him? But the truth from the word of God is he's right there in the passenger seat. He has not moved. Sometimes, yeah, we drive along kind of quietly. Sometimes we don't talk, but it's a quiet that is peaceful. It's okay, you know when you're with your best friend.
Speaker 2:You don't talk constantly.
Speaker 3:No, some of us don't.
Speaker 2:But you know, sometimes we're just singing, sometimes we're singing, sometimes, you know, we're sharing a meal, sometimes we're. I mean, everything is with him. He's right there and there's no condemnation, like you said, tim. So he's never condemning me. He never shakes his finger at me, I turn left instead of right and he doesn't say oh my gosh, christina, seriously, you did that again. He doesn't do that.
Speaker 1:And he doesn't say anything like you let me down again. I'm not talking to you anymore. No, he doesn't say anything like you let me down again. I'm not talking to you anymore. No, he doesn't do that, no.
Speaker 3:And I love that you bring that up and use that example because I hope it's ironed onto people's minds, because that is literally he is always with us, yes, and in the same way that his love like I shared how my life was just cleaned up. In the same way, if we understand his presence, in the same way we understand his love like I shared how my life was just cleaned up in the same way, if we understand his presence, in the same way we understand his love, if we know he's always there and not condemning us, not looking at us sideways, not rolling his eyes as we often do with each other, I'm just absolutely amazed at the love of God and how he puts up with us, and I know he doesn't view it that way.
Speaker 1:No, it says, he gets pleasure doing so.
Speaker 2:It delights his heart Celebrating us. Yeah, it's amazing, it's beautiful.
Speaker 3:It was interesting this morning, as I was praying and preparing for this, god gave me a picture that he encouraged me to share, because I think sometimes, if we have a visual that we can look at, all of the time, it brings reality into what we think about. And the picture that he gave me was to imagine a big, happy face and imagine that that's your father. He's smiling at you, he's looking at you, he's delighted at you, he's looking at you, he's delighted with you, he's thrilled with you. But to take that one step further, what I would recommend in fact I'm going to do it I'm going to go to one of these poster stores and find the biggest happy face that I can find and I'm going to put it on the wall along with some of those sayings that he delights in me, he's smiling at me, he's happy with me, he's not angry with me, he's not dismayed with me or disappointed with me.
Speaker 3:But then, underneath it, I'm going to put no shame, no condemnation, because I think for me, if I can look at that and I can see that and I'm constantly reminded of it, a picture is worth a thousand words. So I'm not very crafty and I'm not one that tends to go after that, but to me that's a perfect, that's a reminder. You look up at that smiling face and I know it doesn't represent my father at all, but on the other hand it reminds me that he's smiling at me, he is pleased with me.
Speaker 3:And those are the things that his love represents to us and just kind of making one last shift and we can wrap the podcast up with this. But now, in relationship to understanding what God's love for us is and again I'm going to put Heidi on the spot first here how do we treat other people when we understand how God has loved us?
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, that's a great question, and this has come up a lot for me in recent months and that really, when I understand the way God loves me, then I understand that I'm not special in that way. He loves my husband, he loves my kids, he loves the stranger who cut me off in traffic, he loves the mean church lady all of the people that I interact with that I might have an edginess to. He loves them every bit as much as he loves me, and he has demonstrated his love for them by giving Christ. He has lavished his love on them in the same way. He does not condemn them in the same way, and so when I get this edginess in my attitude towards another person, I need to bring that to him again. I mean, that's a sin. That is a sin.
Speaker 1:He loves them every bit as much, and so it totally impacts me, and one of the mind renewal tools that I have used to help me with this in certain instances has to do with what would it be like and imagining being in that person's shoes and what I know of them, what would it be like to have these different things have happened in my life and the empathy wow, it's from God. It totally gives me a different perspective on why they might say a harsh word or why they might be hard to get along with, or why they might be hypercritical. And so, by using that mind renewal tool of God, what would it be like to have had experiences in life that they've had when they didn't have God to help them? I mean, they didn't think they had God to help them? Through it, it just has opened up a whole new ability in me to love them more compassionately and more genuinely, just genuinely.
Speaker 3:Same question to you, Christina.
Speaker 1:She loves everybody anyway.
Speaker 2:No, this is such a good question. I love what you shared, heidi. I love that. But just another perspective on it.
Speaker 2:So I feel like in several relationships in my life, for a really long time I was looking to someone else to fill me and to take care of all my needs, whether it was a friend, whether it was my husband, whether it was my pastor or you know and I thought, okay, you know, I'm going to hang on tight to this person and get what I need from them. And that's that's not the way friendships, relationships, were designed by God. And I thought, you know, this is this is, this is what it is, this is how we we kind of get what we need, our emotional needs and that kind of thing. And so part of my growth, part of my journey with the Lord in the car, has been you know, lord, how do you view the relationships in my life and how, how do you think, what's your design for getting my needs met? And the answer is so simple it's just me, me me, I'm here, God, I'm right here, I'm the one.
Speaker 2:And so what has happened then is, over time, turning to the Lord again and again, and again. And, by the way, not only is he the most amazing travel companion, I mean, he knows everything about everything, he's so smart. And so when I turn to him, he gives me so much wisdom and he says, christina, just think how rich your relationships on earth will be if you're already filled by me.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's like you know I was honestly I was looking to my husband for way too much things that you know it's just too much. There's no way he could provide for all that I needed in so many ways. But when I um approached my marriage as a person who's already full in Christ, I can be so generous, I can be so grateful, I can be so gracious too. Like it changes the way I respond to my husband and in turn, it changes the way he responds to me. And our marriage has really changed and shifted and continues to, because of the wisdom that God gives me and he says I'm the one, christina, I'm going to fill you up emotionally, spiritually, physically. I have your needs covered. Now go and, you know, be with your husband, enjoy your husband. And it's like, oh, wow, this really really changes things and it's I love that design.
Speaker 2:I was not doing that before. God's design is so beautiful, but I've missed it in so many ways for so long and I'm always being taught. And that's again why I love that idea of being on a road trip with the Lord, because there's always new scenery, there's a new situation, there's new things. And I just turn and say, okay, what are you going to teach me now? And some of the lessons are hard. They are. Some of them are hard, but there's always joy on the other side and growth, and I do want that. I do.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's amazing the perspectives that each of us as individuals have, and they are different and our understanding is different and that's why we need each other. Our perspectives are limited. And I look at myself now and I find myself asking the question why did it take until I was 70 years old to understand the love of God? And you begin to put shame on yourself. But then the Holy Spirit immediately comes in and says listen, you're only 70. Exactly, you've got years ahead of you to now take and share that love and bring it into other people's lives. And while you look at moses, he was 80 years old when god called him to deliver the islites.
Speaker 3:Just in kind of summarizing and wrapping up things, there was a couple of verses that the Holy Spirit really highlighted for me this morning as being central to God's love but to our response to that love. John 15, 13 says Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God. Whoever has been born of God and knows God, whoever loves, has been born of God and knows God. And the other verse that it just really encourages me when it comes into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. If it was up to me to act out of love for others and for God. Even I would fail, but this verse tells us where our source, where our power is it's the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes. Thank you so much, tim. We sure appreciate you leading us in this time together. Wow, thank you.
Speaker 2:All right, I'll go ahead and pray. Lord Jesus, thank you for this wonderful, wonderful time that we've had together, heidi and I and Tim, and of course, you have been here every step of the way. Lord, we're so grateful for you. We thank you, God, most of all for your love for us that is bigger and wider and deeper than anything we can ever, ever imagine. We are so grateful, lord, that you are our travel companion in this journey, in this life, and that we can turn to you for all that we need. I pray that whoever's listening, lord, that you would just bring so much encouragement and hope to their hearts and minds as they listen and as they hopefully go to you and talk with you after this podcast. I pray, lord, that you would do what you do best Bring hope and whatever feels impossible to us, lord, we know that all things are possible with you.
Speaker 2:We love you so much, lord, and we're so grateful to be yours, and I pray in Jesus name Amen, amen. So we are so glad that you've been here with us. So glad so we are so glad that you've been here with us today so glad, so glad, and we would love to invite you to our next podcast episode here at Revelation Within on the go, go Bye.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining us, bye-bye.