Save Your Company & Career with Leadership Mastery

Hey, welcome to another episode of Making Billions, I'm your host, Ryan Miller and today I have my dear friend Nate Tanner.

Nate is the former head of HR at DoorDash, now a leadership coach for founders and other high powered executives, and the author of his new leadership book called, The Unconquerable Leader. He has served in investment banking roles across Lehman Brothers, Piper Jaffray, and others.

So what this means is, Nate is about to teach you and I the fundamentals of leadership, and how to set yourself up to unlock massive value for you and for your investors.

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[THE GUEST]: Nate is the former head of HR at DoorDash. Now a leadership coach for founders and other high powered executives, and the author of his new leadership book called the unconquerable leader. He has served in investment banking roles across Lehman Brothers, Piper Jaffray, and others.

Transcript

Ryan Miller  

My name is Ryan Miller and for the past 15 years have helped hundreds of people to raise millions of dollars for their funds, and for their startups. If you're serious about raising money, launching your business or taking your life to the next level, this show will give you the answers, so that you too can enjoy your pursuit of Making Billions. Let's get into it. 

Ryan Miller  

Have you ever had a leader that sucked and everyone knew it, has happened to you at times? Well, my next guest is the former head of HR at DoorDash and he is now touring America with his message on how to lead and grow effectively so that you too can enjoy your pursuit of Making Billions. Here we go. 

Ryan Miller  

Hey, welcome to another episode of Making Billions, I'm your host, Ryan Miller and today I have my dear friend Nate Tanner. Nate is the former head of HR at DoorDash, now a leadership coach for founders and other high powered executives, and the author of his new leadership book called, The Unconquerable Leader. He has served in investment banking roles across Lehman Brothers, Piper Jaffray, and others. So what this means is Nate is about to teach you and I the fundamentals of leadership, and how to set yourself up to unlock massive value for you and for your investors. So Nate, welcome to the show, man.

Nate Tanner  

Ryan, thank you so much for having me, I've been a big fan of the show for a long time, and really excited to dig in and share some things with the Making Billions community.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, man, we're certainly lucky to have you, we've been in the top 2% in the world, all because of amazing guests just like you. So you're very kind, it's good to have you. So let's jump right into things, man, you've been doing a lot of things. I mean, HR at DoorDash, head of HR DoorDash, you've done tons of stuff, Piper, Lehmann, we're gonna get into that. But before we do, let's talk to the beginners, beginners in leadership in business and entrepreneurship. In your opinion, Nate, what makes the DNA of a good leader? 

Nate Tanner  

Yeah, so I've had the experience to work in leadership roles at a lot of different companies. In the finance world, in the high growth, technology space, there are some table stakes that I found. I think of tactical leadership skills, such as setting expectations, accountability, delegation, giving difficult feedback, all of these skills that we learn in a leadership development program or a training program are all very, very important. But what I found to be most important, is the ability to tell new stories that are going to serve your growth. And what I mean by that is, you know, there's an internal game that we all play, the things that impact how we lead that other people may not see. This is the self doubt, the emotional regulation, all these things that are going on inside of us, and often these negative stories that we tell ourselves that can often limit the growth that we're going to have and that's it. And that's what I've seen, like the ability to tell stories that are going to serve your growth. 

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, and, you know, growth is kind of what business is, is saying how, how intelligent are we at producing growth? But I think in leadership, it's yes, there's all kinds of growth, but leaders are really that catalyst for growth. At least that's what I believe, I'm curious to get your thoughts on this. So we talked about telling the stories in a growing company, good leaders are seeking growth, what are maybe two or three areas of growth that leaders should seek out growth? 

Nate Tanner  

Yeah, so I think I think about three things. The first is focusing on company growth, that includes growing revenue market share, you're improving margins, so focusing on the growth of the company. The second piece is professional growth, these are the individual skills that you need to have to progress in your role. And then the third is the personal growth, this is the internal side, these are the relationships that you have with a spouse or significant other relationships with family, your health, spirituality, all of these things that impact how you show up on a regular basis. And actually think that piece, that personal growth is arguably the most important piece and we can, you can avoid that for a while. I've seen this myself of like, you can ignore the personal growth or what I call the internal game, and you can lead fairly effectively for a while, but eventually that catches up. And if you're not constantly investing in that personal growth, or in that internal game, then it's really good to catch up to you and it's gonna hurt you in the long run.

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, I love that. So driving growth, and often, especially when you're an investor, or you're looking at companies, and you look at the leadership team, and you're like, how are you know, how are you growing revenue? And you always look at that first one that you talked about company growth, and that one can be very obvious that can show up in the financial statements. But arguably, if you're really doing your due diligence as an investor trying to find some of the elements that are adding value, it would be good I would argue you didn't say this, but I'm totally putting words in your mouth but also examined the leaders of what kind of personal and professional growth is not only encouraged as a culture, but also sought after for leaders. And those leaders who are seeking growth not only company growth, but personal and professional growth, those are the leaders, I would argue, would have the most impact on generating value. 

Nate Tanner  

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the challenge. I mean, we go to the COVID 19 pandemic, or other challenges that people, you know, rapid increase in interest rates a couple of years ago, these types of events, create curveballs that you just can't be prepared for. So the ability to be nimble, to be able to handle these challenges, take them in stride, and still operate with confidence and strength. But these are really, really challenging things and so it's, it's not just following a set playbook, and developing a set of skills that you could roll out from company to company, it's about continually investing in yourself, so you're ready for these unique challenges that we're going to face.  

Ryan Miller  

I love that and as I say, to my partners, at our firm, you know, people trust us to be able to look around corners, and which is essentially. I would say is a more of a poetic way of saying leadership is to say, where's the thing going, and you need to see things and in order to see things that others can't, you need a different vantage point. And that, I would argue, is a summary of leadership, but we're not done. So I remember in the early days when I was hired as CFO, and I was like, yes, I did it, I'm, I've done something cool, I'm so proud, I'm now a CFO. And that typically, when leaders come in and love to get your opinion on this, when leaders come into a new role, often we need a first 100 days plan, a plan to say for my first 100 days as a CEO, CFO, whatever you are, or managing director doesn't matter. But if you're over people or profit margins, or whatever it is, you have that responsibility to find a vantage point, there's that 100 day plan. So I'm just curious, from your perspective, Nate, what would you see as some of the key things that you would recommend that leaders should get in place when they start and what should they put in that 100 day plan?

Nate Tanner  

Yeah, it's an excellent question and a quick aside, one of the things I really want to do in this conversation, Ryan, is to provide very specific things that your audience can do to strengthen how they show up as leaders. I found that often, in these conversations, they can be a little bit too generic and so my goal is to provide specific tactical things that can be implemented right away. And so as I think about those first 100 days, which are a very critical moment, and, you know, the leadership journey, and joining a new company, and building trust, and all these things, my favorite activity that I advise all of my clients to do, when new to an organization is to create a leadership manual. And this is a, you know, the number one reason why I do this is first for us to be able to articulate what are the values that we have? What are the expectations that we have of ourselves, as well as the expectations that we may have for our team? How are we going to hold people accountable, the leadership style that we have at being able to just think about that, and articulate that to ourselves is really important. 

Nate Tanner  

And then the second step, the second value add, is communicating that to other people, there's this period of trial and error when you're new to a company, where you know, your direct reports to your team, they want to please you, they want to please the boss. And you'll often they're, they're making mistakes and being able to communicate. Here's what's important to me, here's what I value, here are specific things that I'm working on as a leader that can be really, really valuable. So I've seen this before with several leaders that actually gave me that idea of being able to communicate that and a couple of questions to answer as you create this is, you know, what's your, what's your preferred communication style? How do you like to receive feedback? What are things that people may misunderstand about you? When are you going to be, what are your working hours, the best way to communicate using email or slack or text messages or whatever, pet peeves to look out for. Anyway, putting this leadership operating manual together, I found to be really, really effective and build trust quickly, which is one of the most challenging things you could do a new to a party. 

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, I love that and so in your manual, you know, I wouldn't, I love that you have this business manual or leadership manual, or some might say a manifesto. But if you're really wild like me, but you know, one of the things is, so your communications got style, where do specific outcomes come into play as far as this manual in that context. 

Nate Tanner  

As for, as for outcomes, I would say that is the second step. The first step in creating the leadership operating manual can actually be done before you join a company. So being able to think through to answer all of those questions that I just just discussed, that can be done before you join the company. Then in the first 30-60 days, understanding the company that you're working with, culture, all of those factors value can take the second step, it's okay. What are the metrics that we're going to hold the team accountable for? How are we going to measure that progress? It's I'd say, that's the second phase of creating the leadership operating manual. And that requires, you know, some context and understanding. I've seen people do that too early and when you don't have that trust, that can actually be a challenge and could get people off on the wrong foot. 

Ryan Miller  

You know, I'm gonna take a sideroad, but it does talk about that is one thing that I've learned. So I've worked for organizations and it's been a while since I've had a job who has been just consulting and working with folks. But I remember back in the day, and probably one of my most recent ones is you would see these people, it was a young organization with young leaders that hit it big. And one of the things that I noticed is I saw a lot we would call it nepotism sort of, but I would see how some friends would get promoted and they would do certain things, while other people were achieving those outcomes. And then the friends of the CEO would, or whomever would get promoted and so these, these expected outcomes are happening, but it's by other people who weren't getting promoted. And so often, and then people who are not necessarily ready, I'm doing air quotes, for those of you that are listening, those weren't ready for this executive style role. There was one particular leader who had a very challenging, very brash communication style, you mentioned communication style, right? I'm not, I'm not saying they're good or bad leaders, just different values. And one thing that I noticed he's very direct, he's a little brash, and just young in, in, in his leadership journey and I noticed that there's people who got promoted, were not the ones doing the results, but the ones who were favored. And unfortunately, that leadership might have inadvertently, I don't think they meant to do this. But it created a culture this, that says, actually, outcomes don't matter, just getting to know the boss and being friends with the boss and being liked matters more than producing results in this business. And unfortunately, that really put some downward pressure on the company, on the margins and on the growth of the team and the morale. 

Ryan Miller  

And so I adopted a saying, from my own experience, you and I were talking offline, and we would say, hey, the good leaders and the maybe not so good leaders, in your opinion, allow you to triangulate your own leadership style, because you've had some experience on really working well. Here's what I've noticed, and I'd love to get your opinion on this, but influence matters a lot and as a leader, I think. And the ability to influence people and there's a funny saying that says, you know, the ability to influence means you tell someone to go to hell, and they look forward to the trip. And so to do that, is a skill that is built over time, hopefully. And one thing I've noticed is that the, the leaders because we're talking about hiring a leader and kind of the things that should be in place at that time, when a leader struggles to influence often the default is to promote others and build those around them that have the ability to be obedient. And sometimes take it from the misfit himself, Ryan Miller, but sometimes obedience is great. Usually it is, sometimes it's not, it's if you overly sanitized process, then you might scare away innovation, trying new things, because you're like, but what if I screw up and the boss doesn't like me, and if I'm not liked, I don't get promoted. And so you can see that the leadership style, the ability to influence tends to help drive things forward, and it helps more teams to support you coming up. So I'm curious of your opinion, how important or what have you seen as far as hiring new teams and adding morale to like, what is the requirement that you'd like to see when new leaders come in back in your HR days?

Nate Tanner  

I would say, culture is defined by who you hire, who you fire, and who you promote. And those three things, there's a lot of different definitions for culture, some of them can be a little a little touchy feely, that's my favorite definition. Because the decisions that we make around hiring, firing, who gets promoted are ultimately going to show you what you value as a leader. In an ideal world, everything is objective, the top performers get promoted, the underperformers get pushed out, or get invested in and get additional training, whatever it may be. I have found though, the leadership world and the way most companies work can actually be fairly subjective, and is so critical, as uncomfortable as this is to say what I've observed, it is critical to be liked. And I feel like childish, like we're going back to the teenage years or something, but if your boss likes you, you can get away with a lot. And if your boss doesn't like you, you can be an incredible performer and you're going to be limited in how you grow. And so being able to build trust with people, being able to influence them, to get them to see your point of view while listening to that, that's a really important step that's ultimately going to drive. And I say, when a leader comes to new, a new organization, the most important thing is going on a listening tour. I did this when I joined DoorDash, I saw other leaders do this, like, just listen to people and learn, because eventually you're going to have to roll out a bunch of different initiatives. And if the people who you're working with feel heard and understood and listened to their far more likely to get on board, but you have to make some uncomfortable decisions? And so that, I think is a key piece that leaders really struggle when they come in with a very strong opinion of what they want to do and what they want to accomplish. And, you know, other people don't feel hurt or don't, don't listen, don't feel listened to say those are, those are some thoughts on that one.

Ryan Miller  

I like it. So it's a bimodal thing to say, yes, you need to produce results, but yes, you also need to be liked not be, you know, you didn't say this, but perhaps not overly obsessed with being liked. But it's important and what I found, and I totally agree, Nate, what I found is being liked, does allow you to roll it those initiatives in often the missing piece that I've seen people, great leaders, super competent, well educated, but where they fall flat, is they're unable to win hearts and minds. And so this is something in the business world is learn the art of leadership, which can include in a very big part is how do you win hearts and minds of people? Now, you mentioned earlier, Nate telling stories. And so a leader tells stories that are relevant, I'm wondering if you could unpack that a little bit more. What do you mean by a leader telling stories that are relevant? 

Nate Tanner  

Yeah. So maybe I'll actually start with my story, or a story that I've had. So I was a 2008 undergrad, I joined Lehman Brothers, right after graduation, I entered without the New York incredible experience. And I joined Lehman Brothers and one month later, Lehman goes on largest bankruptcy in US history, that triggers the financial crisis, eventually another bank, Barclays acquires the US operations, and I'm excited. I still have a job, even though Lehman's gone under a few more months go by, I get let go and this is January 2009. Really, really challenging job market and it takes me a very, very long time to find a job really, really long time. It was actually about four months, but I've been out of college for maybe four or five months when this took place and so it's basically half of my career I'm out of work. And despite this economic environment, I told myself, I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, investment banking isn't for me. And I struggled to find work, eventually, I found a job at a company called Gymboree, which is a children's clothing retailer. It's kind of funny because I didn't have kids, I'm colorblind. So I could, no, I'm not really into fashion at all and the job is not a good fit, but I'm desperate for work, desperate to have a job. 

Nate Tanner  

The financial markets eventually open up, banks start hiring again and I decided, okay, I think I can face my demons, I think I can go after it. And I interview for all of these jobs and I get rejected by every single one. And a couple of weeks later, one of these banks, Piper Jaffray comes back and they tell me, the person that we hired, no showed, they just didn't show up. And so we're going to invite a few people to come in for a final round interview, and we wanted you to be one of them. And I told them, no, my self confidence was so low at that point, that I just couldn't do it, I couldn't do it. My wife and I had moved into a smaller apartment. I just accepted this mediocre life, because I didn't have the confidence. I wasn't smart enough, I wasn't good enough, all of the stories that I've been telling myself for well over a year at this point. And I had this really powerful experience the next day, as I'm walking into the office, just this powerful impression. And it said like, hey, you've got to do this, you've got to do it, you can't keep living the same old story of not smart, you're not good. That story is garbage. It's time to set that aside and tell a new story. 

Nate Tanner  

And that's one of the challenges that I've had to have that I've experienced several times throughout my career, just basic negative stories. And the first step is asking the question, what is the story I'm telling myself that no longer serves me? What is it limb, what is the limiting story that is holding you back? And then the second step is what is a new story that I can tell, and as you start creating this new story, we then need to find evidence that is going to back that up. And so I told myself when I joined Piper, I got the job, I was really excited, really scared because I've already failed once. I may not have been successful before, but I can be a successful individual. And as I started to find success and do good work that then created the confirmation, it's not just telling yourself positive things and hoping for the best that we need to then create evidence that confirms that story that we've been telling ourselves.

Ryan Miller  

Man that's brilliant in, in often that those stories become anchored and they go from kind of a story based on hope and faith into one that's built on evidence is you got to do something to provide that evidence. And I always think about that in my case, and I had a similar one. So as we've exchanged our wounds, all kings have scar tissue man. So you know, is similar thing when I started at Merrill and started as an intern and got the offer, accepted the offer and then, kaboom, the whole thing fell apart and there's a reason why it's Bank of America, Merrill Lynch, now, they got their lifeline sent. But me being not American, I had to leave the country and the same thing right, left, all my friends literally had to start over and move right back to the hood, where I vowed I'd never moved back to and it was all the stuff. And I joke, and I say, you know, don't worry, it wasn't a total travesty, at least I had $100,000 of student loans to pay off. So it wasn't a total nightmare, right? And so during that time, and I applied, I think, if I remember, it was over 1000 jobs, because I kept track of everything. 

Nate Tanner  

Wow. 

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, keep in mind, these are very archaic, so I tracked everything, because I needed to remember my login for all the job applications. And there was 1000 applications, like literally, that was my full time job, I applied to everything. And, and after a while, man, like, and I know, I'm not the only one, after a while this wears on you. And often I'm asked about raising capital and hiring people, it's kind of what I'm known for. And I would say, you know, anybody that has laid paving stones, the final step that you do, when I ask people, what some people say to you, you drink and forget all about it. But that's not the right answer, the right answer is you fill in the cracks and you got to be very mindful. And I just want to complement what you're saying is you have to fill in the cracks in your psychology with the right kind of relevant stories that's gonna fill in with a story or not. And so adding into the right story can really make the difference or it can break you and I also had those same things, it was really hard and that imposter syndrome comes. 

Ryan Miller  

But one thing I've learned, Nate is that that imposter syndrome where you're like, maybe I'm not good enough, maybe I failed, maybe this, maybe that. But one thing I've realized is it'll always flare up and feel free to agree or disagree, but it will always flare up often, when you're right on the edge of a massive breakthrough. So you're standing on the edge of this cliff, staring down the abyss and you're like, I've been told I have to jump and build my wings on the way down, I'm kind of freaking out. And so often, it's right before you make that leap into something you don't understand, but you know, it's progress, you just don't know how imposter fills in. You've never done this before, remember what happened last time, you were never raised this way, blah, blah, blah, yeah and it just goes bananas. 

Ryan Miller  

And so I'm reminded of a quote from Morpheus from The Matrix, he said something along the lines, he was talking, he was addressing people. And he said, I remember that I'm here, not because of the path that lies before me, but because of the path that lies behind me. And so to me that what that reminds me of is saying, I am at that edge where I we're about to make a leap, and I get it, you're freaked out, I'm freaked out talking about a leader, even though it's Morpheus, and totally not real, but the principles are the same, is to say we're not here, we are not looking at this with fear because of what lies in front of us. In fact, we should stand here tell ourselves a different story, because we know what we've been through. And so Nate, I just want to give you a compliment, man, because I, we were all that graduating class got smoked, especially finance. And we were all able, now we are at this place where we can stand on the edge of the cliff and not freak out like, maybe we used to, I can't speak for you but me. And it's not because we're we don't realize that there's unknowns or there's risks or all these things that lie in front of us. Look, we got kids, man, like baby's gotta eat. But we stand there with confidence about to take the leap, because we know the path that we've walked to get here, that we've overcome the imposter syndrome over and over and over. And now it's just one more Cliff here. It flares up and we're like, I know what's going on. I'm not going to freak out because of what's in front of me. I'm going to stand strong and make a move because of the path that lies behind me. I'd love to get your thoughts on that. 

Nate Tanner  

Yeah. First of all, incredible that you would apply for 1000 different jobs, like 1000 jobs, that's more, that's more than I applied for. And you are at this point where you could have taken a path that was you know why, maybe this isn't for me, maybe I should, you know, take this easier path and you kept going. And it takes a level of mental strength to be able to pound your head against the wall, waiting for different results. One thing that I did come to mind as you were sharing that I remember, I think it was maybe three and a half months in, so a couple of weeks from finding a new job at this point. And my wife, we didn't have kids but it was just the two of us, lived in a small apartment, and she would go to work in the morning and I remember at night she came back and I was sitting in the exact same spot on the couch. I have not left the couch, I'm still in my pajamas, haven't gotten ready for the day and she's like, what are you, what are you doing? And I mumble something back and she looks at me, she's like, so are you just going to give up. And my initial reaction was just anger, I wanted to be like, you don't understand how hard this is, you know, I had my dream job coming out of college, everything was lined up perfectly, and it's gone. And with this, like a flash of anger came, and then it hit me as like, She's exactly right and I'm really grateful that I had someone in my quarter, who had been very, very supportive to that point, but kicked me in the butt and got made to get back up. But I think we need those people in our lives.

Ryan Miller  

You know, one thing that and I've talked about this on the show before, is there's a difference between trying to be invincible and trying to be unstoppable. And so often, we confuse ourselves with being invincible and when we find out, we're not what happens. Often, I don't know about you, and I'm not going to project that on you, Nate, but often, and for the folks that are listening, the thing that I found, that really flares up that triggers an angry response. But for me back in that time, because I had similar experiences as well, I didn't realize it then like I do now. But one of your greatest enemies, in your mind is believing you're a victim, in that moment taught me that I was miserable in the beginning, because you didn't know what to do and you're confused and you didn't really have a lot of experience to go off of to get another job and there was all this stuff. And often you get caught up in this story back to our original context, the story that something was done to me, even if it's true. I'm not saying people aren't victimized, they are and it's not okay. Right, things happen to people that did not deserve it. But one of the things in, especially in leadership, which your wife led you in that moment, is they call you out when you're sitting there feeling sorry for yourself for things that were done to you and I've been there to Nate. Your, thank you for being vulnerable, I'm going to join you right there is when you learn in an I adopted the saying as Ray Dalio says pain plus reflection equals progress. Okay, a lot of pain, lot of reflection, right? You don't have a job, what else you gonna do? Yeah, let's might as well reflect, and I would reflect in I adopted two things, because money's tight at that time and I felt like crap. And I just needed to wake up and continue to apply even though over 1000 jobs. And guys, this isn't an AI, I literally filled out every application 1000 times and I adopted two promises, typically pain plus reflection equals progress. But what it also equals is a lot of promises you make to yourself is on your way out of that moment. 

Ryan Miller  

One was, I'm an investor, not a consumer, I would never waste anything, because you couldn't at that time and number two, I refuse to be a victim and what I'm referring to is the mindset. And even to this day, the most miserable people, even myself, if you ever have a bad day, often, you're thinking about things that are not in your control. And so my challenge to you is, as you're not you Nate, but you listeners is as you step up leadership, start with yourself, start with refusing to accept that you're a victim of your circumstance. Now, that might sound harsh, but let me explain. Is that refusing to accept that you're a victim of your circumstances, puts the power back in your hands. Is to say, you know what, I refuse to be a victim, I can do something about this. I don't care, whatever it takes, if it's 1000, jobs, whatever it takes, and little by little, you become happier and those cracks begin to fill in, and you start telling yourself different stories to say, I can do something. And when you believe you're a victim, you believe there's really no point taking action, it's almost like learned helplessness. But if you believe you are not a victim, and I mean, the thinking of one you accept the possibility that you may, with a little effort, be able to change your fate. I'm curious of your thoughts on that?

Nate Tanner  

I completely agree and this insight was a big reason why I wrote the book, The Unconquerable Leader, I became a coach several years ago. And when I left the corporate world to become a coach, my plan was okay, I'm an executive coach. I'm here to teach leadership skills and delegate and help people be productive and give tough feedback and all of these important skills and as I started working with people, yes, I did do that. But what I've found the bigger challenge that they faced was the same challenges that I had been going through on my own. This victim mindset, the stories that I told myself that were garbage that I needed to set aside self doubt, the ego, emotional resilience, all of these things going on inside of me that impacted how I showed up. It was the same thing for everybody and I found as I as a coach now, I'd say two thirds of the time I spend working with leaders, and these are just people managers at small companies. These are executives at Fortune 500 companies, CEOs of leading startups. We spend maybe a third on these leadership skills, but the other two thirds are, is how do you have the right mindset to show up every day? How do you avoid that? That victim mindset that you just talked about Ryan? These are the challenges, the real challenges that leaders are facing in today's environment.

Ryan Miller  

Brilliant. Now, I've noticed Nate, in your book, you have some counterintuitive advice in it. So there's a chapter in there and I'd love to get your opinion on this. There's a chapter in your book, I believe it's called Decide where you'll intentionally underperform. What's that about? 

Nate Tanner  

Well, one of the quotes that I just cannot stand Ryan, and we hear all the time, especially in the business world, how you do anything, it's how you do everything. And I just think that it's garbage out, I think that is that mindset of okay, I have to do everything, with the most amount of effort that I have, is one of the things that can really lead to burnout, we all have a to do list. And each day we go through the day and try to get as many of the most important things done that we can. And if your listeners are anything like me, that to-do lists just seems to get longer and longer every single day. We chip away at it, but we never really get to all the things that we need to do or want to do. And I found a lot of power in having people and myself included intentionally underperform in certain areas and this is one of the things that I've done with clients like okay, let's, let's identify where you have stress. And let's just carve out a handful of things that you're going to intentionally underperform it. Some of that, for this CEO I was working with it was networking events, just during the period that they were at, everything was internal and growing the company. So setting aside networking events, setting aside time spent fundraising, this is a woman who was pregnant, so like, intentionally underperforming and cooking like we're just going to focus on takeout food and that I feel like is a very powerful thing, because otherwise, we just carry this burden on our shoulders. Like, oh, I gotta do this, I gotta do that, I gotta, and if we're like, no, I'm going to intentionally not do well at these things, or intentionally set it aside, it becomes very freeing, and gives us the space to do those things that are most important. 

Ryan Miller  

That's really good, Nate, and what other tools have you used to help leaders and what advice from those tools can you encourage our listeners to follow? 

Nate Tanner  

Yeah, one of the one of my favorite tools that I work on with clients is character creation and I share the story of Beyonce. So Beyonce, apparently, is someone who is a little bit shy and she created a character or this alter ego, which she calls Sasha Fierce, in which she goes on stage, there's this strong, aggressive, sensual individual that she steps into, which gives her the confidence to go on stage and perform. And so I've taken this idea of character creation and when I work with people, I invite them to think about your audience to think about this as well as like, what, what characters or what personas might you create in order to show up and thrive in all aspects of your life. 

Nate Tanner  

And so the first step in character creation, number one is to identify the roles or characters that you currently play in your life. So for me, it could be executive coach, husband, and father could be our next. Let's stay with those three, then the next step is to define what success looks like, serve each one of these characters. Whom do you want to be in each role and what do you need in each role to be effective, like, write this down, the more details about it. And then finally, let's establish the time period for when you need to become this character. This can be certain hours of the day, you know, morning, afternoon, evening, or this can be certain times at work or outside of work or when we get home. So an example of this I had this this client, Tyler, and he was excellent at just executing, getting work done, he'd put his head down, headphones on and just crank. But unfortunately, he was a CEO, and he was less good at setting the vision for his team and, you know, delegation and and all of these other leadership skills that are important, and he wasn't showing up for his significant other. So we intentionally created these three characters, the first the unicorn CEO, this is a people first energetic listens more than they talks, focused on people development. The second character was the loving partner and this was the Tyler who showed up for her parents, significant other, was fun and present. And then this third person, this was the character he was already good at was the relentless machine, obsessed with progress and self improvement, innovative have creative. And so we specifically identified times he was going to be the unicorn CEO from 9am to 5pm, when he was going to show up with his team and lead, he was going to be the loving partner from 5pm to 9pm, when he was going to show up with his loved ones, and then finally the relentless machine, we're going to save that from 9pm to midnight. And by identifying how he wanted to show up in each of these roles, he was able to flip the switch. So that's the challenge in our lives is there's so much context switching that takes place and what's required to be successful with one rule may be different from terminology. So that's, that's one of my favorite tools that I work on with clients is helping them not just thrive in their key role as a leader or investor, whatever it may be, but like, what are all the aspects that they want to be successful?

Ryan Miller  

Yeah, I love that. So building your character, your own Sasha Fierce or unicorn CEO, or whatever it might be. And I've heard of this strategy before and a lot of times I've done something similar is to say, think about people you admire, and almost allow their spirit to possess you. I know, that may not be the right term, but just say like, let's say you admire Tony Robbins, for example, very, he's a dynamo, right and so what would you, how would you act right? So maybe you're giving speeches, and you do that a lot as a leader, and you're often on stage like Tim Cook, or Steve Jobs, or someone you're presenting new products or so on, it doesn't matter. And you need to summon this, this character and so often, I would create a lot of those characters to use your vernacular, but to use a lot of those and just allow the Spirit of someone who you wildly admire in this area, like you're like, oh my gosh, like they're that I've never seen anyone like that. Like, it's almost like they're the way they are in a particular area, say investing or public speaking or raising their children or being an extraordinary husband or wife, whatever it is, and you're just like, oh my gosh, like, no wonder their marriage is so good. No wonder they're a billionaire. No wonder they have tons of people that admire their advice, or the way they speak. And so you can allow the Spirit of these people, whether it's real, or fiction, or whatever it is real or imaginary, you can allow those to come in and you start to act different. I promise you as crazy as it sounds, what Nate is telling you, it works, man, it really works is having that and obviously Beyonce would know as well, Sasha Fierce. And so being able to step into that and have a physical ritual that unlocks this person. And especially when you're a coach, you got to transfer that energy. So very often in my good friend, Oren Klaff, who wrote Pitch Anything, it flipped the script. He's done a lot of stuff and when you see him perform, it's like a different guy. Like, he's a dynamo. And then when you just get him, just him, it's like the nicest dude you ever met. Totally different, right? So he steps into this and it's like, it's a switch, and you can see it in. So I would also just echo what Nate has encouraged you is figure out those characters who do you need to be a father, a spouse, a lover, a growth seeking leader, whatever that is in step into that. I absolutely love that. And so, you know, as we come close to the end of our discussion, this is fun, man, you and I could talk a lot more, but maybe we will offline. But what are some of those unfair advantages? Because we've covered a lot. I'm just wondering if you had maybe two or three other unfair advantages that you can share with our audience, just to help them level up because of our conversation today.

Nate Tanner  

Yeah, this has been a blast, I'm glad we were glad we're able to do it. I have a very simple exercise that I invite everyone to do. So pause right now, don't hit, don't hit pause on the I'm watching this, you may not be able to do this if you're driving or out. But it is a simple exercise, I'm going to identify 10 areas of your life and invite you to rate yourself on a scale of one to 10 how satisfied you are in each one of these areas. Got it, so find a piece of paper if you can, or your phone or whatever, these 10 areas of your life scale of one to 10, how satisfied are you in each area? The first is your career, how do you feel about your job and career? 1 to 10, 10 extremely satisfied, 1 you're extremely dissatisfied. Two your family, how do you feel about your family? Three friends, how do you feel about your social life and friendships? Four your significant other and romance, how do you feel about love and intimacy? Five your health, how does your body feel, how does your mind feel? Six money, how do you feel about money and finances? Number seven spirituality, how do you feel about your connection to something bigger? Eight fun and recreation, how do you feel about your level of leisure and play? Nine is your personal growth, how do you feel about your personal growth and development? Then finally, number ten your physical environment, how do you feel about your surroundings at work home and play? 

Nate Tanner  

So you've jotted down these 10 areas, I call this taking a life snapshot. This is the exercise that we're doing to get a quick snapshot of where you're at in each of these areas and then I invite you to identify two areas that we just touched on. They don't have to be the lowest rated areas, but they might but identify the two areas that you want to make improvement on and for those two areas answer, what would it take for me to get to a 9 or a 10. That's it and once you've identified that, commit to taking action. I've learned when I work with people, we can spend a lot of time talking and learning and listening and like, ah, that was interesting, Ryan brought up this excellent point, or his guests made this point. That's not where real growth happens, real growth happens from taking action, and so the unfair advantage I invite you to do, which a lot of people are not doing, don't just listen, take action. Commit to two areas, two things you're going to do to become a 9 or a 10.

Ryan Miller  

I absolutely love that, Nate, we get paid to get things done, not to put things in motion, to echo your point. Taking action is the key. You know, as we wrap things up, is there anything else final thoughts, anything else that you would like to say to our audience?

Nate Tanner  

Yeah, I'll finish with this quote and this is one of the most impactful quotes that I've read. I stumbled on it four or five years ago and I have a sticky note that I keep up right here on my monitor. So I'll read it and this is from Kwame Anthony Appiah and he says, in life, the challenge is not so much to figure out how best to play the game, the challenge is to figure out what game you're planning. That's the invitation that I will leave, like, life can be very, very competitive. When you flip the game upside down, and you're focused, not how do I play these other games? How do I get good at whatever job or paths may be cool? Like, how do I really play to my unique strengths? How do I play my game? It changes everything. So I'll leave that I'll leave with that and yeah, I think that covers it. 

Ryan Miller  

Awesome. So just to summarize everything, build a plan where you intentionally seek company, professional and personal growth. The other thing Nate and I talked about, is build those characters that you need to step into to get things done in the right way at the right time with the right energy. And finally, explore those 10 areas and pick the top two that you will lead yourself toward mastery. You do these things and you too will be well on your way in your pursuit of Making Billions.

Ryan Miller  

Wow, what a show, I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. Now, if you haven't done so already, be sure to leave a comment and review on new ideas and guests you want me to bring on for future episodes. Plus, why don't you head over to YouTube and see extra takes while you get to know our guest even better. And make sure to come back for our next episode where we dive even deeper into the people, the process and the perspectives of both investors and founders. Until then, my friends, stay hungry, focus on your goals and keep grinding towards your dream of Making Billions.