Cocktails and Conspiracies
Cocktails and Conspiracies
Epi 3: Ze Confederate Gold - with Guest Speaker, Tracy!
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What happened to the millions of dollars' worth of gold lost after the Civil War?!
WTF Moments:
- There has actually been Confederate Gold (AND real treasure maps - how fun!) found in various parts of the U.S.
- What if a secret society, founded during the Civil War, accumulated a fortune in gold coins, and then hid it in the hopes of someday funding a second war between the states?
Hello, welcome. We're just getting started to where I'm just getting started. We're ready. Today's topic is fun. It is. They build say gold. Yes. Are we starting? We just start. Start with a cheers. Cheers. Get off your phone. Oh yeah. So guys, we are going to hear a little voice. Your research. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 2I don't really need it, but it would be nice.
Speaker 1So if he wants to look at his notes, that's
Skippers start here
Speaker 1fine. So you're all are going to hear another angelic voice today. Our first guest, this is tracy and he's going to help us tell the story because we're both really bad at summarizing the story of the lost confederate goal. That's what today's podcast is about.
Speaker 2[inaudible].
Speaker 1Yeah, take us big long sip. Like I just did guys so far. So it has to do with the civil war, the union against the confederates. And then when Robert e Dot Lee surrendered, he warned Jefferson Davis and basically when they were going to go collect all their money, the gold, the silver, they all of a sudden lost it or couldn't find it. They didn't have as much money. So the conspiracy is that they hit it along the way that night, that they were escaping when they had surrendered. And so it's basically still last to this day and it's a big huge treasure hunt. And the conspiracy about it, the conspiracy part is that we think that it's for. Well, it's theorized that it was buried and hidden for a future confederate appraising. What do we get? A letter I need a lot of it is one other thing, tracy. Spanglish is very good.
Speaker 2That's very good. I think one of the things that's important to this and the part that like I get the most excited about is not necessarily the last confederate gold, but all the things kind of going around this at that point. So I think that you've got to think about like kind of what's going on in the years, like coming proceedings, civil war. So I mean there's a civil war is often, to me it's a moment in time. It's very short. It was something but it's almost taken on a life of its own and American folklore and as it should. But really it was an act to carry out further thing. So what ultimately there was, was there as a huge economic value to having slaves and you can't lose that fact and it wasn't just the confederate states of America, it was actually all through the Caribbean,
Speaker 1but you don't think there's value in having slaves. Let's just edit you real fast
Speaker 2and you to think about the time that they were in like this was not necessarily socially acceptable, but it was definitely business acceptable. I think that there were businesses where you absolutely knew that you had to have a lot of manpower to get something done. And um, you know, cotton, sugar, rice, these are all tobacco. These were huge when you came into the United States and because you came to the United States, you were given thousands of acres as a land grant just because. And so what are you going to do with this land if you don't have the means to do stuff with it? It's not a husband and a wife going to go farm a bunch of land. That's not how this works. And so
Speaker 1the reason back in the day I would never work at all because I've never worked in a sauna, was interesting in the transformed from land grants to slavery to currency because of currency as our current slavery basically.
Speaker 2Yeah. I mean, so anytime that you want to really analyze something, you don't have to dig too deep to find out that there has to be an economic gain in it or people just aren't gonna do it. And to me that's the important piece here is that what ended up happening was there was a verse of group, it wasn't even subversive thinking about if you have people of like minds like today's equivalent to meetup groups. These are people that all enjoy or, or work in the same field. And they all meet up and kind of talk about how to do things. The, um, there was a group called the knights of the Golden Circle and the knights of the golden circle. We're essentially a group that started out as wanting to pull together all of the southern states and they wanted to pull together the southern states plus a all the way to Texas, the Yucatan Peninsula, the Caribbean, southern America, and basically say we're not a part of the United States. We want to form our own country, our own democracy, our own government, because we are all slaveholding states and we all share in the same economic trade and imagine surrounding the Caribbean with these, um, these like minded people that farmed. They were agrarian society and they wanted to pull together these people to be able to do this. They did not like the way the United States was going. They didn't like the fact that northern aggression was saying that they couldn't make a living the way they wanted to make a living. Northern states, you know, if you look at it, um, the south went all the way up to Baltimore because they could farm all of that. Right. And so, but north of that, they weren't farming society. So they didn't understand the need to do this. They were a birthday. So they built stuff right? And so what happened was the knights of the golden circle essentially wanting to pull together all of these states and say, no, United States were not a part of you anymore. We're forming our own government, our own country. Um, when, uh, the north started in coming down and saying, listen, you know, as, as the United States where we, we are going to be a society that doesn't believe in slavery. It doesn't do those things. Um, you start to see the knights of the golden circle really start to push their purse, their agenda. And I think this is very important because when you start to look at the loss goal, you start to look at why is the gold being buried, what are they looking to do over some period of time? Right? And they didn't go out and take two golden, like spinned it, they actually, the belief is, and this is where you could feel the spirits, he is, they wanted to actually start a second civil war, right? And so they wanted to finance the second uprising that would allow them to actually succeed in what they were trying to do.
Speaker 1So I, um, I have information to add a question. So they actually, and we talked about this, um, our, our sim, I'm related or somewhat similar to Mason's. There's. So does that mean that they were. So were the knights of the Golden Circle, the start in Europe, was it Europe included in this? Are they all in southern?
Speaker 2No. So they were, um, there were similar to the masons in that they're the, uh, the founder of the Knights of the golden circle is actually a mason. And so he leveraged a lot of their traditions. But by no means do I want to say that the masons and the kg see where like the same group, they were not the same group.
Speaker 1They start the confederate army or were they completely separate?
Speaker 2No, but the belief is. So think about this. If you are the confederate states of America and you are going to basically succeed from the nation, where do you get your treasury? Where do you get the money back? This huge initiative that as an entire country has, and now you're separating, you've got to be able to finance not only in government but a war. And so the belief is, is that the knights of the golden circle plus many other conspiracies. Oh, actually many other facts and conspiracies that kind of blew them out from here. Um, the, um, the southern states major export was cotton. So if you look at it, you look at the textile industry across the world, textile people, people in the textile business are gonna want to help the confederate states, so because they want to keep their money coming in. Yeah, exactly right. And so, uh, the United States, um, pleaded to France to help with with that and France actually Napoleon said, no, we're not going to help with it, but they did go. They got about $15,000,000 in that time of major investors from, uh, France to actually invest because they were in the textile trade and they needed that cotton to keep coming. Another backing of it was the AGC. AGC had a huge vested interest in. It was a major business. People within the south, within the north and within Canada that actually wanted to fund and see that the south succeed and there were businessmen in, in the north that wanted to see the south succeeding. So the idea here is, is that when Jefferson Davis Flint, right, um, he fled knowing that the government, that the war had been lost and he was leaving. So there were essentially two trains that left out of Richmond. There was his train with all of his cabinet and the government officials. And then there was the actual train that, that had, um, what's considered a, the law school. And they both laughed and they went on a journey and they were heading down to Georgia ultimately and then west from there. Um, over time what ended up happening is, is that, um, it all left like it was supposed to and it was always very well recorded. So like they knew, they said any given time how much they knew that they had along the way. And um, at some point is loss of where it went.
Speaker 1So I'm going to say I did learn that. Okay. Richmond, Virginia, since that was like the confederate headquarters, that first flight when he scrambled and once it felt they got the fuck out of there so fast and they just gathered everything that I could. There was no ledger until that next stop and they think like it was buried. I always say you can get away with that, like if, if it's a real war and you actually surrender will think about the, the technology. There was no, there was nothing like you can get away with murder.
Speaker 2Yeah, and you've got to understand that from a background standpoint that the reason why from a conspiracy standpoint, like why is the conspiracy, they're like, so the background is, is that there was a much bigger hand at play than just what we talk about. And the reason why you hide the gold is because you want to rise up again. The south will rise again like you want that. They want that second civil war. They want to be able to go back. So that's the reason why it's believed that they hid the gold and it really supposedly did not get taken over time. Like they hit it, that's the conspiracy and that they were going to use that gold again. And there's now there's gold hidden all over the United States, like a dozen states all live in California to Atlanta, to California. There was just something in Pennsylvania. I mean, there's just all,
Speaker 1you said that supposedly there's some buried at his mama's house and Mississippi. Sure.
Speaker 2So, I mean, that's, that's kind of the folklore and that's the, that's the belief behind it and that it will be done. And then over time they've had people actually watching over the gold coast, sentinels in the social work for the KGB or not work for members of the federation. And then over time, if you want to believe it, they've essentially, they've, it's faded away, right? Like it would have happened by now. Like it's, it's gone. Um, there's a belief is where you want to go. So there is a belief that I'm Jessie James, Jesse James actually was the controller of the money for the AGC. Um, and there wasn't just one, Jesse James, there were multiple Jesse James and it was a moniker called Jesse James and they were stealing federal government money off trains in these things and from the banks to actually fund the AGC to have the second. And that's actually a very, very, that's another conspiracy that you could go into, like we can speak to you for hours though. Jesse, Jesse James was a bank robber. He stole more money than anyone in the history of the United States. And what they were saying is that Jesse James was actually multiple people and since Jesse James became so known for being this villain is bank robbery, they, anytime you showed up and you said, I'm Jessie James, people at hand, the money over. So they had multiple Jesse James running around the country doing this. And the belief is Jesse James Stole millions and millions of dollars even in our own, our own a monetary value. And he did. He lived the life of a cowboy and a pulper. He didn't like have a lot of money. He didn't flaunt his money at all. And the belief is that he was stealing a lot of this federal money in bank money for tobacco to this, this back up. And that's another huge conspiracy within the KDC, within the hidden gold. That's it. Just kind of keeps going and going and blossoming relate all these conspiracies that kind of go with it.
Speaker 1Great. Okay. So about the knights of the Golden Circle, are they believed to still be around today?
Speaker 2No, they're not still bleeding out today actually. So what ended up happening is after the civil war they believed to became. They were a. So the knights of the golden circle is not a conspiracy. It was a real organization that really existed with the stated purpose.
Speaker 1You think of the KKK,
Speaker 2it's not the KKK, so it's not associated with the KKK at all. In my head, I just think about pointed. They probably have the same beliefs. So actually the Klu Klux is Greek for circle, but it's the circle of clan of members. And so there might be a loose connection there because there were people in the knights of the golden circle that actually eventually were in the KKK too, but it's not believed that they were really connected other than their belief around slavery and things like that. But the KTC was 18, very well funded organization by very poor people, very wealthy people. And the KKK was never really
Speaker 1thought to grow. That's a separate. KKK is more like evil demonic, like
Speaker 2Katie k is more of I think. Okay, okay. It's more of a hey, white supremacy, white a white, this, that, and the other. The AGC was an organization who definitely back slavery for big financial gain,
Speaker 1but there was no racial component to it really. They just wanted the economy to stay the same and to prosper because at that time that was the number one. Well, they don't know anything else. Oh my gosh. Has they're used to their environment and their culture. Well, not like these people were still fucking rich with these plantations like thousands and thousands of acres.
Speaker 2You're not going to come in and tell me how to do my business, right, like I know how to do my business and if and in my bend is by business, hinges on the use of slaves to get it done and does evaporates and then what it was. And then what are we gonna do next? Right. The whole society is gone. That was based on this belief and that's what the KDC is, you know?
Speaker 1Yeah. It's like the end of the world for them. What the fuck are they going to do? So, hey, so when I was doing a little, you know, I was going to rely on tracy to really give us the background and the macro view, but. So I dunno if you can speak to this, but I have something here. It says that when the union troops were on the verge of invading New Orleans, confederates quickly removed millions of dollars of gold to a safer location to the city of Columbus, Georgia.
Speaker 2Yep. So there was a, there was a mint in New Orleans. And so they assess. New Orleans was in the south. They removed all of the. Anything of value within the mint and that also was a part of the um, the treasury for.
Speaker 1Okay. Better states. So it said that they, they stored it. Okay. That makes sense. They sort it temporarily at the arm bank and then we buy and it was by William h young. Then in 18, 62 general pgt beauregard was ordered to take the gold from Young's bank in Columbus and he refused and then he was forced and he's compelled to do so by force. And then according to voter board, both regards biography, what became of that coin is a mystery. So is that the same treasury from Richmond or is that completely different you think?
Speaker 2Um, I think it's all a little bit different and it depends on what it was held. So you don't think of. There was one treasury and the Treasury was just in Richmond. It was a big amount in richmond. And I think this is where the, the conspiracy kind of takes a bunch of different, different paths. So don't think of it as. So there was the train and the train that left from Richmond had all this gold and silver and blue bonds and bonds and stuff on it and it went in and lost. But at the same time,
Speaker 1official story, the official story, like the report that it was, quote unquote lost.
Speaker 2There's times where they actually, along the way, they gave money out and said, here's you, you've go got $2,000 you've got in that time. It was a lot of money. Right? So when they left Richmond, the ultimate goal was to get to South Carolina along the way they had their, there's documents, there's records of the fact that I'm, their treasurer had given money to different people along the way to go carry out, do whatever to go escape to run. Um, but when they got to, by the time they got a deep into the south and it's, I think it's pretty vague on where the ultimate place was. Um, the last record of, at that point when they found a Jefferson Davis, he was actually on a wagon train. Right? So he had, he had now, and this is um, he had gotten off the train and actually wagon train going west, he had the story is he had no money on him at that point and so the, the, wherever the money went or the gold went, it went at that point. Maybe, you know before that at some point I think ultimately what happened is that just like anything, one, you had robberies. So there's, there's actually just talks about those robberies. I think you had people taking the money. I think that there were probably people who took the money that shouldn't have taken it. I think there's people who took the money that we're supposed to take it. And I think that ultimately there is money had not there. The conspiracy is essentially is, you know, are there a large stashes of money out there that were hidden in various states to fund. It's something of a south rises again, a second civil war. And I think that's really the heart of the conspiracy is, is does that happen?
Speaker 1I think that was the intent. I don't know, but hey, quick fat, $2,000 in 18, 62,000, $45 into these currency. We have like a 3000 percent inflation from that crazy right? It okay if we want right now. So I can talk about a little bit of the, uh, kind of the path that it took, but what people are still doing today, like 150 years later, people are still. People spend their entire lives still looking for this shit. Evidence that people have found recently in the past decade or so that have found this last confederate gold right. There are some people that have basically six Virginia banks had their assets trouble on that train as well as Jefferson Davis, his cabinets and their money. So here's what total now there was $500,000 of confederate treasury on the train that they cobbled that they scrambled together to get the fuck out of Richmond. And that comes out to be about $10,000,000 in today's money. The Virginia Bank had in today's money, about $9,000,000 on that train going out of Richmond with Jefferson Davis. So they had $19,000,000, which was way enough to start another army. So that was, they got to their next stop. Then they took the ledger and they found that $200,000 of Mexican silver coin was missing from that original $19,000,000 in today's money, but $200,000 of Mexican gold coin was missing. And that was about 39 kegs full of Mexican silver but silver. So that's why Danville's hot because they think that that's buried in Danville because it didn't make it to the next stop.
Speaker 2When you gotta think too, like this train is heading south with Jefferson Davis. The salvage just rendered their soldiers that are in chaos and they know that this train is heading south with all this loot and joking. Do you think that like people aren't going to try to rob the train? Yeah, exactly right. Like you think people aren't going to steal it. I mean there's, there's no government at this point at that time and there's no protection. There's no protection. And so, you know, I mean, like I said, I think all on the way, I think that there's probably plan dispersals of the, of that money and I think if there's unplanned dispersals of that money and another point I think in, you know, I think in rounding out, kind of like why is when you are human, you're basically at this point in a rogue state, you can't put this money in, banks know they're going to be seized, right? So you have to do what you can, which is to hide the money any way that you can. And you know, in my way of thinking is, I bet it's in, it's in a cellar somewhere, you know, it's been taken and traded in it.
Speaker 1This is like so far beyond banks, right?
Speaker 2The whole system is gone.
Speaker 1So yeah, that's what they think that some is buried in on plantations. There's some hidden in walls. And that's another point today. So this is an interesting story. During the decoded episode, there's this, I mean just quintessential like this little guy called Bob Breaker. So he has been searching for this treasure for his whole life. And very actively for the last 30 years in this guy, he looks like a nut, but he's actually found about $200,000 in today's currency of just like coins. Like oh, he's actually found it. But the way that he's found it is what is so interesting. So he thinks that his grandfather and his uncle were kg senate. I cannot say this. Sentinels. And he grew up kind of hearing about it and he thought that they were going to and they seemed like they. Okay. Another one. I'm sorry. Let me back up. So one thing that's kind of interesting about the AGC and their ties to stone masons are their use of symbolism and coats. So he expected that his grandfather and his uncle would share. He seemed to think that they have the keys to understanding these codes and these codes to put in symbols are supposed to lead you to where the treasure is buried along the route. But they never told him. So he has. He grew up in Arkansas city, a solid, like weird symbols carved onto trees and stuff like that. And he seemed to think that his family understood it and that they were central falls and the, he never got that. So he spent his whole life trying to decode all this stuff and so on and so forth. And when they ask them, how long were you, how long have you been searching for this? He's like about 12 pair of boots. So his ascendant law approach is basically like each signed suggests a distance or heading that leads to the next side. I'm basically what he'll do, if he finds a symbol or something, he'll draw a line from there to the next one he finds and if they cross he thinks that that intersection point has another clue or another direction to the next one because it is literally a huge treasure hunt it a hundred percent is. And what the AGC we're known for. We're misleading clues and directions because they wanted to tire out treasure hunters. So they would give up but he never did his whole life. So that's what he's actually. And he looked like a nut but he's actually felt sad. So n one interesting aspect of this is something called the Bible tree, which is really, really well known, um, and it is a tree that is literally carved up with numbers, letters, symbols. So one part of the Bible tree refers to a Bible passage. First Thessalonians, chapter two, verse three, for our exportation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile. So basically what that, what's that saying like? It was for a good cause. They're not sorry. It's okay. It's all right. And so just because they said that the will, that's part of the clues of that Bible tree. So it's covered. So there's 60 carvings that they believe are a part of a code for something they've, oh,
Speaker 2they have lead them back to. It was the May Sonic Code and became the AGC code. And so now they believe that these trees are in these trees and everything. Our directions do you, how do you get to the law school?
Speaker 1So another Bible verse was Matthew Six, Nineteen through 21 where your treasure is, your heart will be also, and there's a heart on the tree. So, but here's the, here's interesting facts, like back then you know, everyone read their Bible and they had it memorized so you wouldn't like I had to look this stuff up, but like everyone knew inherently because they read their bibles everyday, like they had all this stuff. I have the passage now. It's all assembled. There's like they didn't carve it out, like knew the Bible verse from the simple. Yeah, exactly. So only so during this time, only a really small part of the treasure was actually found by the federal government in 150 years, like just a very tiny bit. But the whereabouts of the two big caches remaining question. So there's the 39 kegs of Spanish reallist where something like $16,000,000 a day and there's about, let's see, yeah, a $179,000 in stolen private date funds. And then there's a missing of donated
Speaker 2jewelry that disappeared while in federal team.
Speaker 1Oh hmm. Alright. Well, okay. Should we, um. Okay. So what do you think, I, I totally think that that is out there. Do you think the union, do you think the north stole it back and hit it or do you think the confederates. Everything. Ha. Yeah, I do too. I think a little bit of everything. So is this in the history books? This is not what she learned in school. No, and that's. Yeah. So that's like, hi. I don't know why.
Speaker 2Well, I mean, like I said, I think that the whole idea of, you know, the knights of the golden circle, it's not been until recently in the last 10 years that people I think have
Speaker 1no
Speaker 2actually talked about it and I think that you study America, American history, it's American history. It's about America, which I didn't pay attention to what the knights of the golden circle talking about is not America. It's an time Marika who was in the KTC. Yeah. You can look at it. They have notable people that are in there.
Speaker 1Okay. This was a good one. Was it? Yeah. One hundred percent. That's a lot more factual than all of our others have ever been. Yeah. Thanks to our sponsor. I want to take a jolene video. Okay. Where Julian Jochen Hashtag? Yes. Solid gold. Solid gold. Hidden gold. Yeah. This podcast, this episode gold. Well, um, okay. So I think we should let our special guest speaker or sign off. Oh, and I do want to say, because I know that we mentioned this in a previous episode that we're probably going to Redo and not air, but our sign off. It's nothing to do with religion. It's an honor of my beautiful and sweet mama because she ends every phone call with I love you. God bless you and trust no one. So that's why we sign off like that. And Tracy,
Speaker 2I love you. God bless you and trust no one.
Speaker 1NPR Lexi. Nice.