In May of 2024, Jason and Lauren spoke at an online event with the thriving singles ministry at Life Center Church in New York City about the foundations of relational health! This episode is part two of a two part message about connection as the bedrock of relational health.
This portion is a recording of the Q&A time we shared with Life Center Church at their singles event.
Connect with Lauren:
Instagram
Facebook
Connect with Jason:
Jay’s Instagram
Jay’s Facebook
BraveCo Instagram
www.braveco.org
In May of 2024, Jason and Lauren spoke at an online event with the thriving singles ministry at Life Center Church in New York City about the foundations of relational health! This episode is part two of a two part message about connection as the bedrock of relational health.
This portion is a recording of the Q&A time we shared with Life Center Church at their singles event.
Connect with Lauren:
Instagram
Facebook
Connect with Jason:
Jay’s Instagram
Jay’s Facebook
BraveCo Instagram
www.braveco.org
Welcome back to Dates, mates and Babies with the Valetins. You guys. Today's episode is part two of a conversation we began last week on the foundations of relational health, which folks is connection? Again, this is part two of a conversation we had back in May with Thrive Singles Ministry at Life Center Church in New York City. This is the Q&A component to that session, so enjoy.
Speaker 2:And so you know there's a lot that we talked about tonight. There's a lot that you can unpack and to look through. One of the things that we wanted to do tonight is to answer some questions that you guys may have, because talk is cheap and it's easy. The actual how to um can sometimes be challenging, and so if you guys have a question tonight, we'd love to take some time and unpack it for you in in just uh, really answer the questions that are in your heart.
Speaker 1:One of the one of our favorite things to do actually is to help troubleshoot areas where people feel really stuck, Like we love doing that. So Q and a is is one of our favorite things that we get to do.
Speaker 3:And then it came in from Maria. Uh, she said should couples who break up after taking some time to heal eventually be friends? How should this be handled in a wise way?
Speaker 1:eventually be friends. How should this be handled in a wise way? Okay, let's see. Can I ask a question? Are you going to be reading all the questions or do we need to look at the chat to see the questions we're? Going to sort through the chat Yep.
Speaker 4:Okay, so you'll read the questions to us?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if?
Speaker 4:I could just just a moment of logistics real fast. So Coralie and Mariah are going to help me monitor the chat. If you have a question that you want to be anonymous, that you don't want everyone to see, then you can send it to the life center admin address and that will go to me and we'll make sure that that gets answered as well.
Speaker 1:Cool, okay, great, all right. I think, corley, I think we got you because we see that question there Should couples who break up after taking time to heal eventually be friends? Cause we see that question there Should couples who break up after taking time to heal eventually be friends? Got it.
Speaker 2:Great question. It always just depends on the circumstances you know and I think even the level of relationship that you had before and and how well you've healed from that relationship. And so you know, sometimes, sometimes once you've been in a relationship with somebody, it's never quite the same. You never go back. You don't ever go back to the same friendship that you had before, and that's just the way life is. And so I often think that you have to answer the question is this adding value to my life? Is this relationship?
Speaker 1:helping me in my life Is this relationship helping them?
Speaker 2:Is this adding value to their life? Is this relationship helping me in my life? Is this relationship helping them? Is this adding value to their life? And when somebody else comes into my life, are they going to be happy with the relationships that I do have?
Speaker 2:So one of the things that I had to do when I was dating Lauren, or before I dated Lauren, I knew that some woman was going to come into my life. I didn't want to have to change the other relationships in my life to make room for her. I didn't want to have to change the other relationships in my life to make room for her. I didn't want her to come in and be like oh that's a weird relationship that you have with this other girl, or this is kind of a weird relationship that you have, a working relationship that you have. I didn't want any of that. So I had to have really good, healthy boundaries in my life so that when she came in, I wasn't having to rearrange my whole life. I was just having to make more time for her. That's something that you're going to want to think about.
Speaker 1:I think a great indicator too of is it healthy for us to be friends? You got to be really honest with yourself about what your heart does when you're with that person. Like if there's any ounce of like, well, I'm still actually kind of hoping things work out in the future. Or, oh man, I actually still kind of think he's the one. I wonder what's going to happen down the road. Like I honestly feel like any time wondering if it's going to eventually work out is a waste of time. It either will or it won't. And I say, go the other way, and if it does, it'll be God and I.
Speaker 1:I speaking speaking from experience, having been somebody that waited way too long to completely ditch an old relationship in hopes that it would eventually work out. I did that after college for a couple of years, and I was like one of the worst versions of myself. Like people who pine after someone after a breakup are usually not a great version of themselves. Instead, I would be like no, no, remember what we talked about tonight. Go on and build a life that you love and that you're really proud of. It's going to be a lot more fulfilling than waiting around and hoping. So I think we do have to be sure that we're honest with ourselves about where our heart is at. Don't try to lie to yourself and be like no, no, no, we're just friends, when that's all actually going on inside. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's great.
Speaker 4:Great, thank you. Now we're going to go to Mariah for the next question. Hey guys.
Speaker 5:Thanks so much for this. This is awesome. Good to see you too. So, um, this isn't in the chat, so you're not going to be able to read along with it. It's a little bit more nuanced, but okay. Um, so, knowing that the only person you can control on a good day is yourself, and everyone has their own background and experiences and things like that with life um, how do you, in a romantic relationship, how do you encourage vulnerability and kind of open the door to vulnerability as you're progressing in the relationship, when it seems like it's a little bit harder? I think there's mostly women on here, but I'd love to hear it from a woman's perspective and the man's perspective. Like, how do you encourage vulnerability in your partner? Like, how can you do that without there being, like, this sense of control?
Speaker 1:That's a good question. I'm going to say one thing that's maybe like a setup, and then maybe Jay has a couple of thoughts. So we always like to say that in a dating relationship, um, you, you grow in your intimacy like ideally right, the goal would be we grow in our intimacy, which in this way, would be kind of the same thing as vulnerability. We grow in our intimacy at the same rate as we grow in trust with one another, and so I think that one of the best things we can do is through the process of a dating relationship from the beginning. Obviously, you could step a couple, take a couple steps backwards if you didn't start this way, but in the beginning we would talk really openly about where we're at in the relationship and what kind of questions are we looking to answer at this stage of the relationship. If we're just first dating, then we're asking questions like do we have fun together? Do I enjoy his company? Does he feel like a safe person? Those are great questions to ask at the beginning, and then, as you answer yes to those questions, then you're able to ask questions that would require more intimacy in order to answer, and ultimately you know all the way down the ladder you're looking at, you know, is this person somebody that I want to marry? Well, the reason I say that is because when we're looking for vulnerability in a relationship, we want to make sure that our vulnerability isn't surpassing the trust levels that we have or the commitment levels that we have, and, ideally, one of us isn't actually hanging out in an area where we have more commitment and more intimacy than the other person has with us. Does that make sense? So, ideally, you are communicating the whole way and you are aware of where each other are at in that journey. And if you get to a spot where you realize, oh, he actually, or she actually has a uh isn't actually ready to go to the next step on this we call it the, the trust ladder they're not actually able to step up onto the next rung of the trust ladder. We're right here and they don't want to move forward.
Speaker 1:That is a great conversation to have. Tell me what's happening for you at this rung of the ladder. What kind of questions are you asking yourself? Where are you feeling like permission to move forward versus permission not to move forward? What are the kinds of wonderings that you're having? Is permission not to move forward? What are the kinds of wonderings that you're having? These are great questions to ask each other, because it's basically what you don't want is for somebody to be really vulnerable with you if they actually don't have a ton of trust. Trust is the more important commodity in the dating relationship. Trust is the commodity, and so, rather than pushing for vulnerability, I would say work to build trust, and the way that you do that is by communicating a lot about where you're at, what you need, how you feel, and, and you'll get to. You'll gauge. You'll gauge what step in that process you're each at, and then you'll be able to make decisions Should we move forward in vulnerability or should we not?
Speaker 2:Great answer, I mean to me. You have to ask yourself if you are a trustworthy person. Are you breaking your own promises or are you keeping those promises? Are you able to hold the standard that you set in the beginning? Are you clearly communicating your intentions? So, as a man, I set the tone in a relationship to build that trust.
Speaker 2:A woman's three biggest needs especially in a marriage but in a relationship is to feel safe, to feel seen and to feel heard. And so when Lauren and I started dating, the very first thing that I did was communicate very clearly my intentions and what she can expect. So, hey, I would love to pursue you. Are you good with that? She goes, I don't know. What does that mean? I said oh, pursue you means that I would intentionally invite you out on dates and we'd get to know each other and have fun. Yeah, I could do that. And then I told her hey, just so you know like I would never hold your hand without us talking about it first and making sure that that's where you're at. She goes oh, great, what does that do.
Speaker 2:It actually allows her to be more vulnerable than she would have otherwise been, because now she's not afraid, she's not thinking. I'm working in this moment to do what the last guy who dated her did. You know, I'm trying to get a kiss here. I'm not trying to get a kiss here, we're trying to have fun. That's the goal.
Speaker 2:We date a week or two and I go hey, I feel like my heart's at a spot where I'm ready to hold hands and for me, holding hands means that you're my girlfriend. Is that where you're at? She goes, no, and I go oh cool, no worries, let's just keep having fun. And I go oh cool, no worries, let's just keep having fun and I'll circle back. Or you can circle back on this conversation If your heart moves great. A week later we circle back on the conversation. No pressure, just curious. If this is where you're at, she goes yeah, I actually am. I don't hold her hand there.
Speaker 2:There's still some romance in me. I wait till the time's awesome, we hold hands Now. There's still some romance in me. I wait till the time's awesome, we hold hands Now. She's super clear, she's really clear. This guy's not trying to work up to a kiss. We're in the holding hand stage. What does a kiss actually mean? Okay, I'm not going to go through our whole relationship. This is how you build trust in a relationship. And guess what happens? Everyone goes. No, that doesn't feel very organic.
Speaker 1:It doesn't feel very organic. It doesn't feel like You're taking the romance out of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually, what happens is I am creating this incredible place of safety for her heart to open up so much trust. And when we get to the place where we are ready to kiss and ready to open up wow, she trusts me so much and I trust her because she's a great partner in in this journey and uh, and there's tons of clarity. This is the way to drain the relationship of anxiety and to fill it up with the proper amount of trust and intimacy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, vulnerability and intimacy is not the goal of dating. Trust building is the goal of dating, and vulnerability and intimacy is the fruit of high trust.
Speaker 4:And I'm just remembering when you guys say that from the podcast, when you were like, what is love?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:Yes, that story, that was a good one.
Speaker 3:Megan, before we move on, I want to just piggyback on an anonymous question we got when talking to a guy when is it appropriate to ask from the woman's side where's it going, or just wait and see where the guy is taking it?
Speaker 1:yeah, so that would back to what we were just talking about. I understand the piggyback. So what we were just talking about is, at the beginning of a relationship, the key to building trust is communicating quite a bit. When we have to guess about where somebody is at, it actually creates a lot of anxiety. The interesting thing, or the hard thing, is that at the beginning of a dating relationship, if you're interested in somebody and you don't actually know where they're at, that anxiety feels like excitement. Anxiety feels like excitement.
Speaker 1:At the beginning of a dating relationship, when you don't know where each other are at, it feels like this adventure you're about to go on and you all know that feeling. I know that feeling and it's been a long time. It's a fun feeling. Right, you're interested in somebody and you don't really quite know where they're at, but you're thinking you're picking up on the flirt vibes but he's really not saying anything about it. Okay, that's going to feel exciting for like two weeks max. Then you're going to start feeling stressed out because you're wondering when's he going to say something to me? Am I reading this wrong? Why is he flirting with me? Wait, is he also flirting with her? Hold on a second and then all of a sudden you're worked up into this knot over it. Right, that is definitely a good time to either bravely ask a question or just back out altogether.
Speaker 1:Because the thing is is, that guy is not actually building any trust with you. He is creating a whole bunch of anxiety by behaving a certain way with you without communicating about intentions. Now I would be brave and have the conversation, because the thing is is, he might just not quite be aware of what he's doing and you could give him a really awesome invitation to come with some clarity and explain where he's at. And you could give him a really awesome invitation to come with some clarity and explain where he's at, and that might be exactly what he needs. And then you could kind of lay this out and go, hey, building trust is important to me, thanks for sharing with me where you're at. Let's be clear, moving forward, what our intentions are. And he gets to rise to the occasion and go, yeah, I can do that, or you'll find out that he just doesn't have a clue how to do that. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:So I think if you're at all past that moment of feeling the wondering and excitement and it's turned into anxiety. You're almost on the brink of too late. I'd go ahead and ask the question. You don't want to spend much time in that arena. It makes things feel really complicated, and that's how people actually can't be friends afterwards. Do you know what I mean? Once you get too far into that territory, where shoot? We let this go ambiguous for too long. Now we actually can't be friends. When I find out that you weren't actually interested in me, I'm too hurt by it. So I'd have that conversation sooner than later.
Speaker 2:Great answer.
Speaker 4:Great Thanks. Um, okay, I'm going back to Mariah to grab one from the chat, or I can grab one, okay. So here's one about how do you build connection when you've already had a number of experiences with distrust, so you have this history of people not being trustworthy. How do you build connection in that space?
Speaker 2:So several, several ways. For starters, I think that we have to do some work personally, right, what were the lies that came from the last relationships that I was in? What was the lens that was created from there? And really start to work with God and yourself to begin to break those and begin to heal from that stuff. You know I I was in a marriage that ended in a divorce because of an affair that happened, and so you know, my biggest fear coming out of that was oh gosh, what if the next woman does that? Well, I can't bring that into this relationship, because then I'm going to superimpose my last relationship onto her.
Speaker 2:And so I had to do a lot of work. I had to actually process my pain. I had to process my pain. I got five steps for processing pain. I go through and I process. For months, the pain got it all out, got in um, some truth and some life and some healing, and then I slowly started into the next relationship where I felt powerful to communicate. I felt powerful to set healthy boundaries, I felt powerful to have needs, and so, to me, part of where people don't trust other people is they actually don't trust themselves. I don't trust that I have the right tools?
Speaker 2:I don't trust other people is they actually don't trust themselves. I don't trust that I have the right tools. I don't trust that I can do something different. I don't trust that I can lead myself well. I don't trust that I can find out.
Speaker 1:I don't trust that I pick the right people.
Speaker 2:And so it's getting. It's getting tools to help you. It's healing from the past. And then very clearly communicating. As you're in a relationship, you know your boundaries and your needs. Those things boundaries aren't to keep people out there, to do there, to protect your love there there, to keep people in and to have a health inside of relationship. So that's a large part of it and, yeah, it's a, it's a honestly it's a it's a really great starting point.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm great, thanks.
Speaker 3:Okay, now I'll turn to corley, next question I'm going to read one of the questions from ali. Uh, she loves what you guys are saying about loving who you are right now. What are some practical ways that we can love who we are now while still chasing dreams? And then the second portion is how to have a healthy balance of those two.
Speaker 1:Well, what comes to mind first is that you know, we should always be growing, like people are. We're wired to be learners. We're wired to grow. So I can be absolutely really happy with myself and proud of myself, while still growing in a lot of areas, and that has to do with the story I'm telling myself about me. So, you know, let's, for example, listen I have been working at for a while at getting more consistent with exercising, right, like that's just been a goal of mine. I'm at, like, on a good week. I work out with a friend of mine two days a week, and what I like for that to increase. And do I have goals? Yes, I do.
Speaker 1:Um, the story I'm telling myself isn't uh, lauren gosh, you just can't get it together. Like this week, you only made it to one workout. What's your problem? How can you not handle working out twice a week? Some people work out seven days a week, like I don't have. I'm not telling myself a story that's full of shame or guilt. I'm going no, no, no, I. I'm actually really good at a lot of things, tons of things. This area, though, I'm actually not awesome at, and I'm working at it, and so I'm chasing that dream, while being really good at loving myself where I'm at, and so I think I mean it's a bit of a silly example, but I think I'm actually most proud of myself and it's easier for me to love myself when I'm growing in some area. I think that that's because we're wired to so I think they go hand in hand. Is there something else you want to say about that?
Speaker 2:Celebrate your victories, because if you don't celebrate your victories, then you think that you have that at some point you're going to arrive at someplace where you're going to celebrate. And the truth is is that I mean, where are we going to arrive at? No one makes it out of this life alive, so I'm literally like waiting to celebrate until I get to this spot where I feel really proud of myself and it's like, well, I'm at the place that I was hoping I'd be at five years ago and it still doesn't feel enough. And in five years from now, I'm going to be at a place where I really hope that I, you know, I found a great wife, I've got great kids. I I'm. I'm working in a, in a, in a business that I really love, and I still can't celebrate it because I don't have enough money. Are we've got things at the house that need to be fixed.
Speaker 2:It's like, well, eventually you just won't celebrate anything. So to me it's like or you'll lower the bar so much that you don't aim for anything else. That's the other problem. Is like when people say, just be happy with who you are. Well, that has its limitations too, because then you have to lie to yourself. It's like, oh no, I'm happy that I don't work out, I'm happy that I'm out of shape, I'm happy that it's like you don't have to shame yourself to get yourself to a better spot physically or monetarily or spiritually. But you also don't have to lower the bar so much that you just are okay with your poor behavior and your poor lifestyle, because then you're not actually really proud of yourself either. You're just lying to yourself. So there are things that we can and can't change. I can't change the fact that I don't have hair.
Speaker 1:I mean you could, but it would be not much, not really take a lot of money.
Speaker 2:It would and I'm not going to. I've accepted that and I've gone. This is this is my best. My best effort produces this. It does, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Try harder, Um, but I absolutely can change, uh, you know, my physical fitness. That's something that I'm responsible for that I get a real big return from. I don't get much return from wishing my head was wasn't bald, but I can get a real big return from my effort and my investment. Now, I'm not going to compare myself to my 24-year-old son, who has a completely different metabolism, but I'm also not going to lower the bar for myself just because I'm 44 years old and say, you know, one workout a week is perfect. I'm going to go. Hey, what does stewardship, what does healthy stewardship look like in this area? What does healthy stewardship look like for Lauren, who has two young kids and works full time taking care of them and me and our schedule? Well, two days a week is great. That's her capacity, that's what she can do. So you know, we have to love ourselves where we're at, while also having some goals and aiming and being realistic about where we want to go.
Speaker 1:I think too, and I cause I know what you're saying. Right, but we do have to be careful that we don't love ourselves to the degree that we are accomplishing our goals, like we're lovable and worthy of love because Jesus says we are. That's actually an identity thing. It doesn't have to do with what you are or aren't doing, what you are or aren't dreaming, or what you are or aren't accomplishing Can.
Speaker 1:I we can love ourselves yeah, but one sec. We can love ourselves because we are lovable. But it is true that in order to feel really proud of yourself, you got to be doing something, because he's God has actually entrusted us with stewardship. He has given us whether I mean for starters, he's he's given us all a body. We have to steward what he's given us. He's given us all an amount of resources we have to steward that. He's given us all a measure of responsibility that's ours to steward. We're naturally not going to feel proud of ourselves if we are not stewarding what he's given us to steward. It's like the thing that's wired inside of us we're his kids and it's wired in us to know that stewardship is our job, and so sometimes we feel guilty when we're not doing what we know we really should be doing to steward it. But we do have to figure out how to love ourselves and believe that we are worthy of love, regardless. That's great.
Speaker 5:So we had a question about just resources like books or things like that that you would recommend um, if we could like drop them in the chat or if you have like a few that you would, either from you guys personally or just from experience that you've read or you know know, would be super beneficial, like on these topics, um, and you have the podcast, but there's Um, so maybe we could get that. Is there any just off the top of your head that you yeah, with the come when it comes to these topics.
Speaker 1:We have covered all of these topics in our podcast and the titles aren't like pithy or you know, abstract. You'll be able to tell just by looking at the list of episodes. There's like 73 of them. Um, you'll be able to tell what by looking at the list of episodes. There's like 73 of them. You'll be able to tell what topics are what, and that is a really great resource. Honestly, that's probably our best collection of resource, but Jason does have. I would like to recommend Jason's book, because one of the things I was actually thinking about he's got a book called Winning the War Within and there's a lot, you know, when it comes to actually rewiring ourselves for connection, whether it's because we were raised in a way that wired us for disconnection, or we have walked through betrayals or mistrust, or we have certain pains that we actually have to work through, you know, processing pain or working through forgiveness that is a really helpful resource that is relevant to everyone in some area or another, and it is another very foundational element in rewiring us for connection.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we always recommend the boundaries book. It's such a great book by Dr Henry Cloud in Townsend.
Speaker 3:So those are some great resources okay, cool, I want to go to the next. Mariah, you're done.
Speaker 5:I was gonna ask a question, but go for it.
Speaker 3:You have a question too yes, and this is specifically for Jason. It came in anonymously and non-anonymously. So in a dating, when a guy is struggling with lust, how should he handle it and how to make sure he doesn't put a strain on the relationship or create insecurities in the girlfriend?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So we really have to define struggling with lust, because every human being is tempted in some way or another, and temptation is not the same as indulgence. Now, if you actually are talking about lust, where I'm looking at a woman and visualizing her, you know, naked or whatever, um and and and that's a, that's a process that that I am active in, then I have to figure out what's driving that. What's actually driving not just my temptation, what is driving me to violate my conscience. So temptation is part of what creates nobility I'm tempted to. I mean, jesus was tempted in every way and I know that a lot of people don't like this conversation, but he was. Jesus was tempted in homosexuality. Jesus was tempted to sleep with someone else's wife. Jesus was tempted. It literally says Jesus was tempted in every way. I was tempted to sleep with someone else's wife. Jesus was tempted. It literally says Jesus was tempted in every way.
Speaker 1:I think people like to imagine that he was only tempted in, like maybe I should just eat that one more cookie or something. It says he was tempted in every way and that he was acquainted with all of our suffering.
Speaker 2:So he knows what it's. My appetite is what defines a man of character. I have an appetite. The same thing that turns me on for Lauren turns me on for everyone, every other one. Yeah, I'm not the one that designed that, I'm not the one that created that. I didn't decide hey, I'm going to like a five foot nine woman.
Speaker 2:So you know, I think the reason why I'm going into this so in depth is most people don't understand their sex drive. They don't understand it. Therefore, they fear it and they shame themselves trying to because they don't understand it. So my sex drive is something. It's a gift. It was a gift given to me from God that I manage. It was a gift given to me from God that I manage, I steward, and so when I'm tempted, I ask myself a few questions. Why Is this just my sex drive? Great, I have testosterone in my body that my body produces. That also creates this incredible pull towards Lauren and affects how driven I am for sex. Um, but what also drives my sex drive is loneliness, insecurity, being tired, right, feeling powerless. So I mean, how many, how many times do I feel lonely and start to feel tempted? Oh, wow, this I really want. My body doesn't care how I, how I meet that need. My spirit does and my soul does, but my body doesn't care. It just wants to fill this need. And the same way that when you guys walk through the grocery store and you're really hungry, well, you look at good food and you look at bad food, right, and you make a powerful choice Not the Snickers bar today. Your body's just trying to get calories. Your body says calories, give me calories Now. You make a wise choice with that.
Speaker 2:So, okay, what should a guy do or a girl do if they're struggling? One, if this is a habitual problem, you probably shouldn't be in a relationship. And here's why because the currency in relationship is trust. That's the currency that we pass back and forth is if you trust me, then we have capacity, we have the ability to move further. If you don't trust me, well then why be in a relationship with me? And if you don't trust you to be able to manage yourself, well then you're going to have a very hard time building trust and depth and intimacy in the relationship. Therefore, you're going to build a relationship that continually has mistrust and fails and you're going to feel a lot of rejection and a lot of shame and a lot of fear in that type of relationship. So I'm like hey, hold on pause and work on the actual underlying issues that are driving you to violate your conscience. Anytime you violate your conscience, it's a need that wants to be met. So to me, you probably need to push pause and work through some of this.
Speaker 2:Now, once in a while, we make mistakes and we do things that we really wish we wouldn't have done. Okay, I have to disclose that I have to be honest with my wife, or my girlfriend, and give her a chance to ask lots of questions so that I can clean up my mess and rebuild trust. Trust is not built by the absence of mistakes, but by how I clean up a mess, and so I need the opportunity to build more trust and to clean up my mess in here and to really troubleshoot. Am I? Why did that happen? Did I clean that up? Am I making good decisions? And she needs the ability to go. Do I really trust you? Do I want to be with you? And you know I don't want her to marry me and then go and me disclose to her all the stuff that I was going through and her go. I never even knew you. I wouldn't have married you if I had known all this. We're back to mistrust.
Speaker 3:So you got to take ownership and you have to solve this problem.
Speaker 2:Sorry, that was a long answer too.
Speaker 5:That was really good. No, that was really good. I don't think we actually talked about that enough, and you're like one of the best. You guys are like, yeah, some of the some of the best on this um. So had a question, uh, and it escaped my mind. But I did have another question. That's like practical um. So we're talking about, um, emotional health and emotional healing and and all of that stuff on a practical level. If someone feels like, hey, I'm doing everything I can, like Lauren, you talked about your friend Okay, I'm doing everything that I possibly can, I'm, I'm going after my goals, I'm chasing all of this stuff, now, how do I meet someone? Actually, like, where can I go? What's this? Where are safe places? We know like church, but TBH, sometimes that ain't it Like it's just, sometimes it's harder because you have a small pool. So, but like, practically, what are some things that maybe you guys have seen or you know? But where can someone meet somebody?
Speaker 1:I mean, that is the that's. That's the question, right, and here's the thing is I don't know a lot of people who were like, like I'll say this my friend who I was talking about earlier, she lived in Nashville for about a decade and while being in Nashville she actually switched churches multiple times because, even as her, her mentors would say, like, hey girl, maybe you should try a new church. Like, you've gone on some dates, you've been in this community for a long time, you have some deep and rich friendships, but one of your greatest desires in life is to be married and have a family. So if that's one of your greatest desires, you might have to get outside of your comfort zone and go and try something new. So she did that a couple of different times. Um, you know, never regrettable. She just made more awesome friends and yet she never found her guy. So, um, more often than not and we don't like this answer because there's not a lot we can do about it but there's so many stories where I'm like that person just came out of absolute left field Like more story, more people. That I know. That's the story Now. The power in it is what we talked about earlier building the life that you really love and that you're proud of. And so I think when we do that, you know, when we are focusing on having rich friendships and deep community, when we are making sure that our life is full of purpose and passion, when we are growing in our ability to respond to the demands of life, and when we've absolutely shored up all that connection stuff we talked about at the beginning, it automatically puts you into a lot of different pools. Where it's possible, it's possible to meet someone.
Speaker 1:But I'll tell you this, my friend actually, I told you she's a nurse, she's got like a master's in nursing and blah blah blah, she's specifically a pediatric nurse. And so she made a really powerful decision two years ago to leave Nashville and become a travel nurse. And she has been traveling for two years and she took two different assignments. One of them was in Denver. She she actually showed like three assignments in Denver in one year. She stayed there for a year and she dated a couple of guys and the the um, the risk was real and the pain of the ending of those two relationships was real. But you don't get what you're looking for without taking risks, right. And so she did Denver for a year and then she just took a job in DC. Well, this guy is, he is a friend of a friend that happens to be in Atlanta. He's not even in DC. But I'll tell you what I know that if she hadn't gone to DC, this wouldn't have happened, like it was literally how she okay. So pause on that story, because I know it's different for everybody.
Speaker 1:My point is I think we can rarely plan these things out. If we could, we would have controlled it, you know. But when we are building a life we love and we're proud of, I think it puts us in pools and inside of opportunities where we are going to meet people that are crossing paths with us in the right areas. I think that's true. People that are crossing paths with us in the right areas. I think that's true.
Speaker 1:I also think that, um, the one of the greatest keys is that we are really connected to the voice of God in our life. Like our friendship with the Holy spirit has to be so strong. Like he is our. He is. He is the best friend to anyone. He is the best friend to somebody in the season of life that wants to be married at some point, and my friend has, over the last 25 years, cultivated the deepest, most rich relationship with the Holy spirit.
Speaker 1:She specifically made certain decisions in this last year purely because she was obeying his voice. It did not have to do with a relationship, but I can see now, even in hindsight, that it set her up for where she's at right now. And it's wild, when we are tuned into the voice of the Lord, I mean we just don't know how to write the story right, like we don't actually know and we don't have control over how the story is written. But if we believe that he has our dreams in his heart and he's carrying them, and if we believe he has our best interest in mind and that he's writing a beautiful story, then the risk is trusting him. And so I think the voice of God and building a life that you really love and that you're proud of, and trusting that that you're going the right direction.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I mean that's yeah, that is an isn't answering the question. The other things we could. I mean, I know a lot of, I actually know a lot of people who online dating has been amazing for them, because they're you know, they kind of have exhausted their pool, they can't actually move Um, and and I know a couple of people they're happily married having online dated. But I would be I wouldn't be speaking from experience to talk about much more than that, you know. Thank you.
Speaker 4:Um. So next question how do you manage competing needs within relationship? So, for example, if you both have different communication or connection needs on a particular day, how do you work through that?
Speaker 2:I mean, there's almost always enough to go around when it comes to, unless it's like water, right, it's like we've got a one cup of water left and we're both thirsty who's going to drink that? But when it comes to like, um, lauren needs a break, you know, she needs some time alone and I need some time on. That was our whole last season. Right, I need a break, she needs a break and we start prioritizing each other. So, hey, what's a way that I can help give you that space? I'll take the kids, and then you take the kids. And what's a way that, um, you can uh, even like, even in an argument, you can only solve one person's problem at a time in a conflict. So there's a lot of places where it's like, hey, why don't you go first and talk and I'll, I'll listen and and then we'll start to. You know, talk through my stuff once her stuff gets solved. And it's very rare that I see in a relationship the challenges that you both have this need and that there's no way to fill it.
Speaker 2:I was working with a couple yesterday. They they're married and they're both exhausted, so exhausted in their marriage, and to me it's. I mean, they were like on empty. I'm like great Quit talking about things that are draining you, quit trying to solve conflict and all you're going to do from here for the next week is say things that you're thankful for and proud of with one. Another week is say things that you're thankful for and proud of with one another. Hey, thanks so much for cooking dinner tonight. I really appreciate it. Hey, the way that you're playing with the kids tonight, just I really, I really love that. There's no criticism. There's no, no conflict.
Speaker 2:Now they have still have a bunch of things to talk through in the marriage, but you got to fill up that emotional bank account. So often it's less about what need you're meeting first and more about do you have the emotional bandwidth to tackle these issues that you have? So you know, when you go to bed at night and you wake up in the morning just as exhausted as you went to bed at night, you don't have a physical problem, you have an emotional problem and you need to recharge. So a lot of the challenges that are in relationships are an emotional exhaustion. People are tired on a soul level, not on a body level.
Speaker 2:Then you have to learn how to recharge from that so that you actually can meet each other's needs.
Speaker 1:I do think that I do. I will say, too, though, that, like needs, I can think of one specifically Jason and I, we are really different, and the chances that you're going to find yourself in a relationship with somebody that's very different to you is super high, very highly likely. You're going to be in a relationship with somebody that's not like you and you'll have to figure out how to bridge those gaps and that's part of being in a relationship out how to bridge those gaps, and that's part of being in a relationship. Part of what makes our marriage a happy place for both of us to be is that we're both really free to be ourselves in this marriage, which means we're really free to bring our differences, and so Jason's the limit that he has for how many words he can hear me say in a day like he has a limit, and and I actually don't have any limit to the amount of words that I want to say in a day most days and so our needs are different.
Speaker 1:He actually needs quiet time. He needs his. Some of his recharge time is like quiet time. He's got his headphones in or he's in the garage by himself, and I have a real need to connect through having a conversation, and so over the course of our marriage we've had to find ways to make sure each other are getting our needs met, and that's what communicates. I love you, I know you and I see you. That that's what creates a good relationship. So I think rarely are they competing in a way where you can't actually both get what you need relationship.
Speaker 2:So I think rarely are they competing in a way where you can't actually both get what you need.
Speaker 3:So helpful Win-win. You're looking for win-wins?
Speaker 2:Marriage is one giant compromise after another, healthy compromise to meet each other where we're at. It's 100% serving. It's not 50%, it's not 50-50. It's 100-100. I'm giving my all to better you and you're giving your all to better me and the kids.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's good. Speaking of the emotional bank account, since you brought it up, can you talk a little bit about that principle of five to one that you shared on the podcast? I thought that was really helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Gottman's call it the bids for connection, and basically they talk about you have to input five healthy touches in a relationship in a day in order to mitigate the one you know. Um, you can probably explain it a little bit.
Speaker 1:Well, pause, cause you're combining two, two ideas, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, so when we talk about the emotional bank account, we talk about how, in our relationship, so in our marriage, we we share one bank account, and how connected are we at any given moment has to do with how much at any given moment, has to do with how much money emotional money we have in the bank account.
Speaker 1:Well, studies have shown that when it comes to positive and negative experiences. So, for example, jay and I got into an argument this morning and I snapped at him that is a withdrawal from our emotional bank account. It costs us something. That disconnection moment cost us something. Where he texted me this afternoon and he said, hey, I'm thinking about you, you're an amazing mom and you're an amazing wife and I'm thankful for you, that's a deposit into our emotional bank account. Well, studies have shown that you have to have, when it comes to those deposits and withdrawals, you have to make five deposits to equal out or replace the one withdrawal that you've made. So the point is, when we go through really disconnecting situations, or we have a really hard conversation, or life is really challenging and our connection is suffering, you have to intentionally deposit five times the amount that you're withdrawing in order to not be in the red of your emotional bank account, and so our goal in our relationship is to.
Speaker 1:In a marriage, your ultimate goal is to protect your connection at all costs.
Speaker 1:That is the name of the game in marriage is protect your connection, and we teach couples that one of the ways that you can make sure you have bandwidth for disconnection because disconnection happens right, conflict happens. Life is hard, tough things happen. Our goal is that we'd have so much emotional money in the bank account that when something hard happens, or when he hurts my feelings or if I don't you know, if I don't value his need that night for sex or whatever it might be anything that would be a withdrawal we have so much money in the bank account. It doesn't actually tank us, it's just something that happened and we move right along and that's something that I can say by experience. Like we have so much more emotional money in our bank account than when we first got married. Hard conversations, hard moments. You'll hear a couple say things like you know, we used to get in an argument and we wouldn't speak to each other for two days and now we just kind of it's like a bump in the road and you just kind of get over it.
Speaker 4:That's proof that you've got emotional bank in the account. Thank you, so we probably only have time for a few more. I know there's a couple more in the chat and an anonymous one just got sent in Corley. Do you want to handle the next one in the chat? You're on mute.
Speaker 3:If you want, I can jump in. Okay, perfect, I am megan. Sorry, can you continue?
Speaker 4:yeah. So we had one come in that was about in family or friend relationships, so non-romantic relationships. If somebody cuts you off and they haven't processed the conflict, um so it's kind of abrupt. What's the best way to respond? So there it seems like the other person is kind of establishing their boundary by cutting you off, but you're kind of left in this place where it feels incomplete I.
Speaker 2:I guess in a communication is that what they saying, Like we're in the middle of a of a conflict, of a conflict.
Speaker 4:I don't know, Lisa, can you wait? Are they cutting off relationship altogether or just cutting you off? In that, in the conflict is the can you sorry At the relationship? So if a relationship is severed, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's different. Um can I, can I like? Okay, what I'm hearing is. The question is when somebody in relationship cuts ties in relationship rather than resolves conflict, what do you do?
Speaker 4:Yep.
Speaker 2:Great, um, what do you do? Yep, great.
Speaker 1:Well, for starters, you might be thankful and recognize that they probably don't have the tools to resolve that conflict Well, and remember, the context is family, not dating. Yeah, so that's tough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think sometimes you have to communicate in a way that people can hear you, and if they're having a very hard time hearing you in person and if you have a hard time communicating well in person, then I would write a letter, and how you start a conversation decides how it ends, with 80% accuracy. So if you want a conversation to go really well, all you have to do is nail the start, and to nail the start, you have to decide how do you want this to end. So, with Lauren, I always want it to end connected and loving and caring. So that's the piece that I grab and put it in the beginning. Hey, babe, I know that yesterday was really tough and I really want you to feel cared for and loved, and I also realized that I walked away feeling hurt too, and I know that we both don't want to start here. Okay, that's my startup. That's my. It's called a soft startup. That's my soft startup.
Speaker 2:I'm. I am talking about myself. I'm talking about how I want us to feel connected. I'm talking about, um, the desire for relationship, and then I'm going to go in and I'm going to talk about again myself, not her, because if you start talking, if I start talking about you always. You always control people when you get really angry and people don't like that. That's a judgment. Now she has to defend herself against me.
Speaker 2:So if you were going to write a letter, you need to write a letter about you. Hey, I really value our friendship and our relationship and I felt so sad knowing that feeling like you walked away from our relationship. I would love to be able to talk through where you're at and where I'm at so that we can resolve this. And then you got to go in and start talking about yourself. So with Lauren, I'm going to come in and go.
Speaker 2:I felt really lonely or I felt really sad when you raised your voice yesterday and told me that I'm a terrible dad. That actually feels really painful. I'm not going to tell her about her, I'm going to tell her about me. So that's going to at least going to give you an opportunity for them to hear you see where you're at and take some ownership if they want to. You can't make somebody clean up a mess, and family's the place where it often is the hardest. So if they don't want to rebuild a relationship with you, then you're gonna have to figure out how to set up some healthy boundaries so that you're not going over there in pain all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you know family is tricky and I like Jason's recommendation about writing a letter because you can communicate without them even there. I love you, I value our relationship. I believe that we can resolve this conflict. Let me know if you're interested in communicating, Then you have to actually go on the journey of processing the pain that comes from having a family member that doesn't know how to have conflict with you in a way that protects your relationship and that's painful and worth processing, even if it resolves in the future, because you want to be really current with yourself about what's happening.
Speaker 1:And in that space I think we get to actually invite the voice of God to help clarify for us what our responsibilities are in that relationship. And and Jason's right Like we can't actually and Jason's right, Like we can't actually control the other person into choosing you know, connection and so there's probably some grief there. But I do love the idea of sending the invitation to rebuild connection. The rest is up to them and if it's somebody that you have to see on a regular basis, even though they're handling your dynamic this way, then Jay's right, Then there's going to be, there's a need for real boundaries, and then I would send you back to that boundaries book we talked about.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:That's great. Thank you. So we have an anonymous question that just came in. Can you speak to the balance between being someone's friend and knowing them in that context before asking them out, but also not getting too emotionally close in a way that's not appropriate for where?
Speaker 3:you're at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, ideally we would all start from a place of being friends, right, and really getting to know each other and enjoying doing what friends do you know? And so I think that there's no harm in really enjoying each other. When you start to single someone out, that's when you have to start communicating.
Speaker 2:So, when I wanted to do something with Lauren that I'm not doing with any other girl in my life. I need to start communicating because I'm sending a message. I if I'm not doing with any other girl in my life, I need to start communicating because I'm sending a message. If I'm going to send a message, I want to be intentional about what that message is, and so I've seen it a lot. You know, being a pastor and a school of ministry pastor for a long time where a guy is now cooking dinner for a girl and he's only does that with this one girl and, but they're just friends.
Speaker 2:And the mistake that she makes is not going hey, I actually don't let guys cook dinner for me unless it's a date, and that's you know it's. It might be something that you do all the time, but I actually don't. It just gets really confusing. Let's just hang out the way that we normally hang out, or please let me know if this is a date to you, because that's what it means to me, and so you know. I think being able to clearly communicate in those areas, but hanging out as friends needs to just be what you would do with every other girl or guy that is in your life, like that Jason said something earlier.
Speaker 1:He was giving an example that kind of speaks to this, but I'll say it again Like when we were first dating, he made sure that there were no other people in his life that he would have to move around in order to accommodate a girlfriend. So when I came into the picture and he was interested in me, he didn't have to have some conversation where he let some other girl down. He didn't have to stop hanging out so much with so-and-so because now he had a girlfriend. He didn't have to tell his friends hey, sorry, we can't actually do that anymore, because now I'm dating Lauren he didn't have to have any of those conversations and so are we just friends. Well, how you know if you can answer that with a yes is do you need to move her or him around in order to accommodate a girlfriend at some point? If the answer is yes, then no, you're not just friends, you are singling that person out at some to some degree, or you are doing with them something that you wouldn't be able to do if you had a girlfriend. So the reason I say that is because I think some people actually whatever there maybe there's just a dating culture that's different than what we would say is helpful or healthy, where it's like they're doing that with multiple girls and I'm kind of like yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Ultimately, if you have to move people around to date somebody else, then you've got to. You've got chaos at hand now. But what I also like to say we say this all the time is like is we say this to our big kids, right? Like you can find a lot out about somebody in friendship. Spend as much time in friendship as you need to in order to answer some of those first and basic questions. You don't have to go complicate stuff with somebody because you're wondering if they're a safe person, if you enjoy being with them, if you have anything in common. Those are all really important questions and you don't have to date somebody to find out the answer. Right, so that's just going to save you a whole heck of a lot of trouble. And so learning how to be a great friend Now, usually, usually the way to do great guy girl friendships is in groups.
Speaker 1:It is not one-on-one way to do great guy-girl friendships is in groups. It is not one-on-one, and so that's also. I mean, that's a huge, that's a real filter for us Like in our environment, in our culture, like show me one guy-girl relationship that stays really friends and they do a lot of one-on-one. It just doesn't happen, honestly it doesn't, and so you know that's a key to success too. But I like learning how to be friends because you really can save yourself a lot of trouble. You don't have to date somebody if you find out the answer to some of those questions in friendship. You know.
Speaker 4:Great. Thank you, Unfortunately, everyone. I think we're at the end of the time that we planned this for. I know there's still just a few other questions that we haven't gotten to, but we got to the majority of them, so I want to thank you both, Lauren and Jason, so much for joining us tonight for your time. I know I learned a lot. I'm sure everybody else did as well. I'm definitely going to be listening to the recording and taking away more of those pearls.