Join us for a special retelling of the Southern Appalachian folklore tale The Harry Toe story as Jackie gives her version of this Southern spooky folklore story!
We'll also cover why ghost stories have always been a part of human culture and unravel the mysterious tapestry of spooky tales, tracing their origins back to ancient civilizations and funeral rituals.
We dive deep into the beliefs around spirits separating from the body upon death and the rituals that evolved to ensure these spirits wouldn't return to haunt the living. We also explore the fascinating tradition of telling ghost stories at Christmas in Victorian England - a tradition born out of necessity for those who couldn't read or write.
Enjoy this special Halloween story for kids and adults for the holiday!
Join us for a special retelling of the Southern Appalachian folklore tale The Harry Toe story as Jackie gives her version of this Southern spooky folklore story!
We'll also cover why ghost stories have always been a part of human culture and unravel the mysterious tapestry of spooky tales, tracing their origins back to ancient civilizations and funeral rituals.
We dive deep into the beliefs around spirits separating from the body upon death and the rituals that evolved to ensure these spirits wouldn't return to haunt the living. We also explore the fascinating tradition of telling ghost stories at Christmas in Victorian England - a tradition born out of necessity for those who couldn't read or write.
Enjoy this special Halloween story for kids and adults for the holiday!
*All resources and references used in researching this podcast episode are found on the corresponding episode post on ParentBusters.com.
Speaker 1:
Hi parents, I just wanted to pop in here and give you a little disclaimer at the beginning. We're going to talk about spooky stories today and we're also going to do a little bit of a spooky story at the end, so if you have little ones listening with you, it's not really bad, but you might want to listen ahead of time.
Speaker 2:
Thanks, hey guys, welcome to Parent Busters, a fun podcast where parents and kids can learn together. I'm Ella, I'm here with my mom, jackie, hey, and today we're doing something a little different Spooky, yes, you could say something a little spooky. Just wanted to talk about some spooky stories.
Speaker 1:
I don't know if my spooky was really that spooky. It was kind of like a questioning spooky.
Speaker 2:
Confused ghosts.
Speaker 1:
It was confused, spooky, right, so let's talk a little bit about the history. Well, we're going to do something different. We're not going to do Two Tricks and a Lie.
Speaker 2:
No.
Speaker 1:
Which is why.
Speaker 2:
Say what I know, is this the first episode we have it.
Speaker 1:
I think maybe it's crazy, but we thought we would talk a little bit about like the history of spooky stories and the folklore, and then at the end I'm going to tell you our own version of a southern spooky folklore story that's passed down.
Speaker 2:
Say what? Should we say? The name of the story, or should we Not yet Okay?
Speaker 1:
Let's just wait. I'm excited, and so be sure that you listen to the end, because you're in for a full on treat.
Speaker 2:
But first we got to hit you with a little you know education, yeah yeah. So spooky stories show up in all types of folklore. I bet you've probably heard some. And well, if you don't think you have. Think of ghosts. Ghosts are actually spooky tales and I don't. I didn't realize. I thought of it as a spooky tale, but it makes a lot of sense and the ghost story is found in almost every culture, with the belief that a spirit separates from the body when it dies.
Speaker 1:
Oh, yeah, right and yeah, I guess. I just never thought about that being the origin of the ghost story.
Speaker 2:
No, and actually many funeral rituals were created to ensure that spirit wouldn't come back to haunt people.
Speaker 1:
Oh, wow. You know one of the things that I found interesting when doing this whole research about spooky folklore and then the story that we're going to tell. I didn't know that ghost stories went all the way back to ancient Rome. Say what it's around like 753 BC Dang, but even back then they have documented stories that included, you know, like quote unquote, the haunted house where we hear like spooky noises and spirits.
Speaker 1:
Oh yeah, they have that documented all the way back to ancient Rome? Oh, that, oh and again. Like you said, a lot of the ghost stories are focused around funeral rituals. The ghost stories back then had a lot to do with people not being properly buried or like being respected the way that you're supposed to be when you're buried.
Speaker 1:
That's already kind of unsettling I know, and you know, when I was doing some reading speaking of unsettling, that was the common theme, under no matter if you were doing like a light spooky story or, like you know, a campfire spooky story or all the way to like horror genres like Stephen King, it was, there was a common theme and it was taking something that we all knew and making it feel unsettling because reality in life is the scariest.
Speaker 2:
Tell you, don't have to tell me seriously, um, and we actually talked about this going on with ghost stories. We actually talked about this on another episode. Uh, but did you know that in Victorian England around 1820, 18 or not 1819, 14. They told ghost stories at Christmas.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I thought this was when we talk. I forget what episode we talked about it on.
Speaker 2:
Uh.
Speaker 1:
I'll have to go back and look.
Speaker 2:
I feel like it was the campfire.
Speaker 1:
Oh, yeah, yeah. Um, I thought it was really. I'd never heard that they told ghost stories at Christmas. That was a common tradition.
Speaker 2:
And now that I think of it, it didn't occur to me before that makes a lot of sense with, like the what is it? The Scrooge? Yeah, three ghosts, yeah, yeah. Of Christmas, past, present, future. Like that makes a lot more sense for being a Christmas story now, because that's such oh yeah. It just hit me and I don't know how I didn't make that connection before.
Speaker 2:
Wow, but getting back on track, we were off track. What? Um, if you haven't listened to this before, it's a normal thing Because it was an oral tradition. They're not a lot of written records. We have to kind of go off of what we believe, why they told these around the end of the year.
Speaker 1:
Right Like around Christmas time.
Speaker 2:
Exactly so we usually think like around winter, solstice, solstice, things dying, getting cold, things dying like plants.
Speaker 1:
I mean maybe people we don't know.
Speaker 2:
Okay, I wasn't going there, but fine Crops dying it, getting cold, it getting spooky and darker out earlier and they had to huddle around the fire and it, you know, it was just a spooky time. What else are you going to do?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it wasn't like back then. They could all go to their separate rooms and one person watch TV and one person play video games.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, one person's playing their Animal Crossing Right. Exactly, you didn't have much to do.
Speaker 1:
And then also think about it, then many people couldn't read.
Speaker 2:
Yes, it wasn't a common thing to be able to read or write.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, if you had information it had to be passed down orally. And doing that telling kind of campfire stories around your own fire at home at Christmas was part of entertainment.
Speaker 2:
Exactly. But once that industrial revolution came, the printing press came and oral stories were now more written, allowed ghost stories to be widely shared and kind of just started replacing yeah, and then we don't tell ghost stories at Christmas, although you do have a good point.
Speaker 1:
Christmas story is a ghost story.
Speaker 2:
No, what is it I forget? Is it a Christmas story? Yeah, sorry, I was like I thought that was the one with the you'll shoot your eye out, kid. Yeah, is it Christmas story, mommy? Yes classic Charles Dickens book is a Christmas Carol. Christmas story is where you'll shoot your eye out. Kid, you want to get a football for Christmas, merry Christmas. He pushes them down the slide.
Speaker 1:
You're totally right.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, okay, to make you feel better. It just hit me. I was like that doesn't sound right, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1:
a Christmas Carol is a ghost story. Although when Ralphie had to put his pink bunny suit on in a Christmas story, that might be kind of a Christmas ghost story because he was channeling his aunt was dead inside. So anyway, back to the folklore. So the industrial revolution, like Ella said, had a huge impact on oral traditions like passing down stories, because once the printing press came into play, like you said you could, you could read any story right and read all those stories and the literacy rates went up and people started to read more.
Speaker 2:
Before we move on to something else. Yeah, let's talk a little. Let's just finish off our little ghosty talks. Okay, have you heard of a poltergeist? Of course. Do you know if there's a difference between a ghost and a poltergeist? Are they the same thing? Are they different, do you?
Speaker 1:
know, oh, um, I don't know if I ever thought about it, to be honest. Well, I just remember. You don't know this, but there's a really scary. I think it was in the 80s, it was when I was growing up. Oh, there's a movie called poltergeist and today, yeah, my parents probably took me to see it at the drive-in.
Speaker 2:
So you probably peeked over.
Speaker 1:
Not supposed to be watching, but? But I never thought about the difference between, I just thought they were synonyms.
Speaker 2:
They are not. Hmm Well, they're kind of similar in a way, but you know, yeah, they're all spirits. Ghost is a spirit that comes back to haunt people and the poltergeist is a ghost that causes physical things happen, like throwing things off bookshelves. Oh light flickering, all this pushing you, pushing you. Yeah, like you see, that's probably the type of thing you'll see on like ghost hunter or horror movies. Exactly, yeah, so they should probably call it poltergeist hunter, to be honest.
Speaker 1:
So poltergeists are mean ghosts. Yes, what if I just like the party? What, what are nice ghosts called? This is not a joke, okay right, but like they're, they're chill.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:
No, I did not know the difference between a ghost. I guess I just never thought about the difference between a ghost and a poltergeist.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I know there are different, more types of ghosts, but not ghosts, spirits, but I don't have them right now.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, this all brought us to talking about how stories get passed down and like folklore being passed down, and it brings us to the folklore and scary stories that are passed down through generations. Every single culture on every continent has some spooky folklore that is passed down.
Speaker 2:
And again.
Speaker 1:
part of it is because people couldn't read and so they had to share information orally that way. But also they share information not just spooky stories, but they had to share history that way. They had to share information about family that way, or family history. It was a way that they shared important traditions for their culture.
Speaker 2:
It still kind of lives on the day when you like ask your family members or friends like what were you like before I met you Right, or before I was?
Speaker 1:
born. How did you? You just asked me, when we were doing pumpkins Like, did you carve pumpkins?
Speaker 1:
for your little what was carving pumpkins like for you, and that's kind of an oral tradition. Yeah, so one of the ways that information got passed along orally was about local legends, and this is what we're going to focus on today. Uh-oh, because there was a and it seems to be mostly southern, because we did a little research about this story. There is a story called and I'm just going to refer to it generally as the Harry Toe story.
Speaker 2:
Say what and at first like listen hearing that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I understand the confusion, okay Well let's first talk about how we came about the Harry Toe story. We found a book at a book sale called who Took my Harry Toe by Shed A Crumb and I just thought I love children's books and I still buy children's books.
Speaker 2:
That's the only thing she checks out at the library.
Speaker 1:
That's true. I only ever check out children's books at the library. I just love the storytelling of it and the illustrations. They're so enjoyable. But I really love weird kids books. Yes, so a kids book called who Took my Harry Toe caught my eye because that's an unusual topic for a kids book, yeah. And so we brought it home and I read it to you and you thought it was terrifying.
Speaker 2:
The story itself was fine. The voice you did was so unsettling and loud to me that I disliked. And then my friend came over. We had been talking about it.
Speaker 1:
Let's just talk about this. This is not when Ella was like seven, this is like three years ago. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Probably not even Two years ago, yeah, but yeah, my friend came over and then she.
Speaker 1:
I made them listen to the story.
Speaker 2:
Yep and I was just dying inside After we.
Speaker 1:
You're welcome for that, by the way.
Speaker 2:
My friends are used to it, it's so true.
Speaker 1:
Seriously, they know what they're getting into when they come over.
Speaker 2:
If they're friends with me. They have to know you because we are so similar and are human.
Speaker 1:
Yes, One of your friends told me when I was doing carpool one day I really like being with you because it's like being with two Ellas. It really is. I don't know if that was a compliment, Wow.
Speaker 2:
I'm going to hope it was.
Speaker 1:
Or two or two tackies, I don't know. So anyway, back to my hairy toe. So not my personal.
Speaker 2:
No, we shouldn't talk about that on the general internet.
Speaker 1:
Let's do the hairy toe story. At the end of Shuddacrum's book who took my hairy toe? She talks about how this is a traditional, especially like Southern Appalachian kind of spooky story which led me to want to do more research about it. So I started doing more research and apparently it's a plan. I don't know, since my parents are both from Appalachia and I have tons of family there so much family.
Speaker 1:
I don't know how this harry toe story escaped me knowing about it, because when I started doing research there are lots of versions of it yes, that and lots of documented versions. So I ended up buying an old book called like southern folk tale and I read it in there. It was very different from Shed of Crumbs book. I think there's another children's book and I'll link to it if I can, if I find it about the harry toe. And then it was pretty different. Once we we learned about the harry toe it's we started seeing it everywhere. I just sent Ella an email, like two weeks ago, that someone included a link to the harry toe story and I was like what is go? So I don't know why all of a sudden, or if we just have been living under we saw that Harry A harry list to rock Gross for all this time, and everyone knows about the harry toe story except us.
Speaker 2:
I don't yeah.
Speaker 1:
I don't know.
Speaker 2:
I don't know. So I think my friend said she knew about it too and I was like what's going on? How did I not know this?
Speaker 1:
Maybe it's a common campfire story and I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. So anyway, after we read, we read a ton of different versions. So we read some from books, we read some from children's books, we watched some readings. We watched some readings, we looked up some online and read those, and out of all those, we came up with our own version that we're going to pass down in our family.
Speaker 1:
You're welcome of the harry toe story and I thought I would tell it here today. What do you think about that? So this is our harry toe story and I'm going, since it seems to be a southern folklore story. Oh yeah, guess what I'm going to do.
Speaker 2:
You're going to be southern, aren't you?
Speaker 1:
I'm going to read it to you in my best southern voice.
Speaker 2:
Wait, what are we calling this? This is our harry toe story. Okay, can I? I need to do an audio book thing. Okay, well, our harry toe story, read by Jackie Wilson, sound effects by Ella Wilson, created by a lot of people and compiled by Jackie and Ella Wilson. That's right.
Speaker 1:
Okay, so this is our version of Harry, the Harry Toast story and, like the narrative narrator said, I'll be doing sound effects remember, there are lots of different versions out there and we recommend that you you could even do that as a cool project to compare and contrast collect a bunch of Harry to know Harry toast stories Okay here are very important things, say okay you ready?
Speaker 1:
yes, our Harry toast story. Once upon a time there was a woman who liked to garden. She lived alone deep in the mountains of Appalachia. One fall day she was cleaning out the last of her garden and picking beans when she pricked her finger on something sharp. Oh oh, she didn't have it. She said what the heck was that? Oh no, she dug down just beneath her bean plant and by golly she pulled out a big old Harry toast. Say what, just like anyone would do in that situation, she stuck it in her apron pocket and forgot about it.
Speaker 1:
That night, after being sued, she took off her apron, hung it by the fire and she went right to bed. After a bit she heard the wind and off in the distance she sure found the faint rumblings that she swore was saying when is my Harry toast? Who stole my Harry toast? She test and shook her head, just knowing she was hearing things in that nasty wind. I'm just hearing things in that nasty wind. Not long after she fell asleep she woke with a start and she heard who stole my Harry toast Getting closer. She pulled the covers up over her head, hoping she was just hearing things until right at her door. Who stole my Harry toast. Who stole my Harry toast?
Speaker 1:
Right then the door whipped open and a great Harry beast stood in the woman's cabin. It was then that she remembered that nasty Harry toe in her apron pocket. I have your Harry toe in my apron pocket. She jumped up and pointed to the apron hanging by the fire. As the scary Harry beast watched, she reached into the apron pocket and a look of fear crossed her face when she realized that toe was gone. It must have fallen out Out when I was gardening. She stuttered you stole my Harry toe. The beast exclaimed and grabbed the woman as she screamed. That was the last time anyone saw the woman. The next day the only thing left was an apron on the floor and footprints outside her cabin, and one foot was missing a toe.
Speaker 1:
It's said that on a windy night right around Halloween, you can still hear the beast looking for his toe, shouting who stole my Harry toe? And if you listen real close, you can hear a woman screaming too. Happy Halloween, everyone. Keep an eye on your trick-or-treat bag to make sure you don't get that Harry toe. We'll see you next time. Have a great day, guys. Hey, thanks for listening. If you like what we're doing here. We'd love your five star review to help us reach more families and also to let Ellen know that her homeschool research isn't going to waste.
Speaker 2:
Seriously, it takes forever. But hey, if you want to check out more of our stuff, we're going to have a new episode every Tuesday and if you want to see some of the older episodes, they'll always be there. You'll just have to scroll down a little bit.
Speaker 1:
Also, you might not know this, but we have a free Buster deduction sheet over on our website, parentbusterscom, and actually it's an entire downloadable fun pack and it's all free and you can download it. And on the Buster deduction sheet you can follow along with every episode, write down your facts and there's a place to do two truths and a lie on it. And we also have a companion learning post called learning after listening, for every single podcast episode we do. You can continue your learning over on parentbusterscom.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so just head over there and check it out. Okay, bye Thanks.