Cultivating High-Achieving Teams with Guiding Principles for Growth

Discover the transformative power of leadership with the insights of Cheryl, a former hospital president who steered her team to the summit of healthcare excellence. Our conversation peels back the layers of what it truly takes to build and lead a high-achieving organization. We delve into Cheryl's 'B99 guiding questions framework', offering you a practical blueprint to navigate the complexities of leadership and organizational success.

Join Cheryl and me as we move beyond the boardroom and into the realm of personal growth and decision-making. I share a moment from my own life that resonates with the themes from my book "Face to Face," illustrating how confronting fears and opting for growth over comfort can shape us as leaders. We further discuss the intricacies of creating collaborative teams, fostering mutual trust, and why choosing the path of discomfort can sometimes lead to the greatest rewards.

Wrapping up our enriching dialogue, we address professional and personal development, emphasizing the significance of embracing opportunities and taking decisive action in the face of adversity. Cheryl imparts wisdom for both emerging and seasoned leaders, highlighting how success is often a matter of aligning opportunity, accountability, and a firm adherence to one's values. So tune in, take notes, and be ready to make strides in your leadership journey, remembering that the change you seek begins with the steps you're willing to take.

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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey

“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”

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Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to Unpacked Podcasts with your host leadership consultant, ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron's delighted to have you join us as he unpacks and shares his leadership experience, designed to help you in your leadership journey. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, ron Harvey.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Good afternoon. This is Ron Harvey, the VP and COO of Global Core Strategies and Consulting, which is a leadership department, and we're based out of Columbia, south Carolina, and our whole role is really to add value and help create a winning culture in organizations, and we always do that through what we believe is instrumental for organizations. We do it through leadership. Our goal is to work with leaders that want to be the best they can be for the people they lead, the people that count on them. So we come alongside them to help them be what it is that they wish to be or the organization needs to be. We love it, we enjoy it and we always want a partnership to help leaders be the best they can be for the people they serve.

Speaker 2: 1:05

But what I do here today is really pause and take a break away from that work and have leaders from across the globe come in and share some experiences that may be of use to the people that are listening. So, whether you're in a leadership role or not, we want to share with you, and so I'm super happy with the person that's coming on. We've never had this conversation. We know each other, we have known each other for years, but we've never done this, so I want to invite my guests and tell her thank you for saying yes, even though we don't know the questions. So thank you for saying yes. You're going to be impressed, cheryl, I want to bring you. Thank you for saying yes.

Speaker 3: 1:35

Oh well, thank you for asking. Yes was easy, so no worries.

Speaker 2: 1:38

Yes, yes, Cheryl, before we dive into it, I want you to create the opportunity to where people know who you are, what your organization is and what's important to you and we all have plenty of time for the question, but I always want our guests to really make people aware or give people opportunity to know them. How would you introduce yourself?

Speaker 3: 1:54

You know, for purposes of kind of this context, one of the things that I know you believe really strongly, too is who you listen to matters Right, and so you really kind of need to have a sense of you know, should I be eating my lunch and listening to my thing and doing five other things while I'm listening to this? Or maybe these are going to be some value in the conversation. You and I have right. So for me the intro is kind of around that, so kind of a highlight. I ended up most recently. I served as a hospital president for five years, and if anyone says, well, how did you do it? What was your plan, I can say there wasn't one. I did absolutely everything to make it not happen. Okay, so I think we can dive into that if you want, but that was my game.

Speaker 1: 2:31

I was like no, no, no, I don't want to do this.

Speaker 3: 2:32

And then I get asked to do it. So the hospital that I was absolutely gifted to be part of is what we would refer to in the healthcare world as 99th percentile performer, meaning that when you're judged against pretty much every other hospital in the country, are you like, oh please, nobody should ever go through your doors, or?

Speaker 2: 2:53

this is the place you want to be.

Speaker 3: 2:56

And so we consistently held it in 99th percentile performance when we were measured against thousands of other hospitals consistently. And so people would actually always still amaze me. They thought you make it look easy and I'm like, and that's a problem, right. I mean I get that this is not your reality, but you should be like what do you do to make it look?

Speaker 3: 3:15

easy and I still did this day. I'm like I don't understand why you were cranky about that. You should be grateful that somebody's doing it and then go. Well, maybe it doesn't have to be horrible, right? Yes?

Speaker 2: 3:25

yes, maybe just maybe.

Speaker 3: 3:27

So I did that for five years and we just had an amazing team that just did fabulous work. And the thing for me that was so wonderful is not only did we benefit our patients you know our doctors, our therapists, our nurses, all of the people that made this possible because of the work we did, we were able to touch the lives of many people we will never see with the improvements and the things that were done. So to me it just does not get any better than that. So our team was just fabulous, and so I ended up leaving that because I had two of my folks go to outside events and both came back and go. I like our bubble, it's really not good out there, wow, and those things would never happen here, and that was really kind of my nudge to go. You know there are people that want to get to this level and they're not because they don't know how they're trying. You know, but we're all finite resources and you spend too much time trying and you're burning up time that won't come back, you know.

Speaker 3: 4:23

And so for me it's like how can we go out and say, hey, this is how it's done. These are the things you need to pay attention to. So then the fun began and I'm being incredibly sarcastic of creating, kind of my B99 guiding questions framework, because I am a fabulously annoying two year old. With my questions you either love me or hate me. There is no middle ground with my questions. And so I was like well, what did we do? You know, I had to reverse engineer. When I compared us to other leaders who were really awesome leaders, but they weren't getting our results, I'm like what did we do differently? And so that's really how the B99 guiding questions framework was birth. It's like what are the puzzle pieces you need to have in play? And I will shoot anybody down before they even think of this question.

Speaker 1: 5:06

Well, what's the?

Speaker 3: 5:07

one thing I have to do and I'm like oh, please, right, I mean really one one no no, no. And to make it worse, it's not just. You nailed the right question, the right time and you never have to think about it.

Speaker 3: 5:20

That doesn't work here. So that was really the impetus for me to start recalibrate, which is, how can we share with the people that want to do the work, like the people who listen and engaged with you and your clients, and other people that are like we don't want to stay where we are. It doesn't feel good, and so, because I'm a sick pup, I went on a horseback safari in South Africa, which I didn't even know, and so my goal a friend invited me was to come back alive and basically in the same general orientation.

Speaker 2: 5:49

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 5:52

And so I thought it was just going to be a vacation, that I literally thought I want to have fun and I'd like to come back right, those would be my big, lofty goals. And on the very first encounter with the animals I'm like, oh shoot.

Speaker 2: 6:04

Yeah, yes, I went to your book. Yes, yes, I went to your book.

Speaker 3: 6:10

So many parallels leadership, team dynamics, organizational behavior, organizational outcomes and I went through okay, okay, I'll just do a few posts, oh, that's what I'll do. And then on the next full day I'm like no, it's a book, and so I'm a photographer as well. So all the images in the book are mine. And because I don't think it's hard enough to write a book for the first time, I thought well, I'll have my own images, I'll make it a copy, I'll do all of these things to have a customer illustrator talk to 25 leaders from around the world. Sure, no problem for your first book.

Speaker 1: 6:43

So that's what I did.

Speaker 3: 6:44

And so it's lines up because it's really it's life, and so it's what happens. I live in Texas at the moment. I've lived around the country and I have horses at home that I care for.

Speaker 1: 6:57

And there's a lot of physical work involved in that.

Speaker 3: 6:59

But one of the things that I've really grown to appreciate and this is where a lot of organizations are struggling right now, when you live in a physical space you can't say I am going to bail my hay before the grass grows. Good luck with that Right. Yes, yes, it doesn't work and we know that, but somehow we lose that when we go into organizations, you know, we forget that there's an order, right, yes, and it's not all that, because it's been done and worked before it should be thrown out.

Speaker 3: 7:29

It's horrible, it's like I don't think so. So all of those things come together is why we do what we do. The book is designed to give people actionable tactics and an enjoyable journey to get a chance to feel what it's like to be on a safari on a horse, pretty much nose to nose with a rhino. Oh yeah, I'm really not in control here, right.

Speaker 2: 7:51

Yes.

Speaker 3: 7:53

No way, no way anybody can say Cheryl's got this right or anybody else has this. So it's all of those things together really inform kind of the work that we do, because to me, work should be enjoyable. Does it always fun? No, I'm not a moron, I was a hospital president. Okay, you know, if it's sucking the life out of you all the time, that's a problem for you and your team, and so that's really why we exist is you can do this, you can make it look easy and, yeah, there's some hard work to get there. I think of leadership and organizations a lot like a teeter-totter, you know. It's like you don't want to go wham, right, you know, and in the beginning there's bigger moves and then you get to where you kind of just it's these little nuance changes, and that's really where the guiding questions framework comes in handy, because it's like, what are the things I need to be paying attention to? And, equally important, what are you not paying attention to? Yes, you know. Anyway, long answer to your question, but there you go.

Speaker 2: 8:47

No phenomenal, not even a long answer. I think it's helping us shape and understand who you are, what you're going to share with us and how you come up with some of the lessons learned for you. So thank you, for I want to unpack a little bit of what you said. What's the most valuable thing that you've learned when you're on your South African trip? The vacation that you didn't know you were going to turn into a book. You know that. You thought you were just going to go in and come back as something changed about you. How did it change you? Or what changed the most significant change? And I'm sure there are many. What's the most significant change? By allowing yourself to get out your comfort zone.

Speaker 3: 9:23

I'm going to give you a slightly veiled answer because, for people who read the book, I don't want to tell this particular story and how it actually played out. I would love to say to you that, oh, I just had this epiphany and oh, it's fabulous. Well, I did, but it was something about me I didn't like and so I was like I don't like my response to this. I really don't like it. And nobody else knew, but I knew, and so it was really around, you know, kind of sister, just suck it up and go deal Right. I mean seriously. And so it was really that learning when I faced something on the trip pretty early on, that I didn't like when my brain goes, well, I could do this and I could do that and I could do this and I'm like get over yourself.

Speaker 3: 10:09

No, you're not doing any of those things and it was really that and I'm not proud of it, but I share it in the book because we all do it. You know we all have that. Oh, I could do this instead and I could avoid that, and I could maybe, you know. And so having that come up was not comfortable. I was not impressed with myself. I'm like you're annoying me. I don't like this. The flip side is that I moved past it and I was like no, I don't like that response.

Speaker 1: 10:38

That's an unacceptable response.

Speaker 3: 10:39

No, no, no, I'm going to do this instead. And so we all know that when we face something that we're just going gah and we move through it, we now have more capacity, and most of us want that capacity without the suck Right. Yes, yes, I don't want to hurt, I don't want to be hard, but anything. Any of us know how to do. We had to learn.

Speaker 3: 11:02

Yes, and sometimes we get to learn and it's fun, and sometimes it's not Right. Yes, so for me it was that when that weirded its ugly head and it is detailed in the book. But it was kind of like no, no, no, no. And I think it really comes down to we make choices every day. You can't necessarily control what I call your lovely knee jerk response, but you can absolutely control what you do with it, and sometimes that's an uncomfortable decision in the workplace. Sometimes it's like, yeah, it would be a lot easier just to let this issue slide. But no, no, I'm going to. Ok, I'm going to deal with this. And so it's how it shows up for all of us daily. It's that knee jerk and it's like but what am I actually going to do?

Speaker 3: 11:51

And it's not based on how you feel. A lot of the times, because most of us are like I like to be whatever your comfort is, whether it's sitting on a couch or riding a motorcycle or whatever it is we default I'm going to do that thing, this is not this thing, and that doesn't serve us. It feels good for a short period of time if you're two, maybe up to five, but then you start to go. This isn't well, doesn't feel good anymore. But that's where we get lost sometimes, I think.

Speaker 2: 12:16

You've mentioned the book a couple of times. I want to do a plug really quick. What's the name of the book and where can people purchase it?

Speaker 3: 12:23

So the book is.

Speaker 2: 12:25

And I have a copy at my house, but I want to show it to you, so I have that so.

Speaker 3: 12:29

I never do this well. So this is the book. It's face to face and that's a photo that I took. And everybody says how close were you? And I said close enough to be dinner. I still had a telephoto lens, but I was close enough to be dinner. But it's really around how do you lead when things are uncertain and when things are disruptive? And I started with that book and that title and that premise pre-COVID, and then COVID decided to make it even more like how did you know? And then now I hear people go well, I wonder when it's going to go back. Well, that would be an easy answer it's not. It may be a different disruption, a different uncertainty, but if we're spinning our wheels long and waiting for things to just, oh, it's like, get over it, I mean you're wasting your time. But to answer your question, so this is the copy table book. It is photographic quality paper.

Speaker 3: 13:26

It is not your typical leadership book and the way it's framed is, every chapter is divided into two parts, so the first part of each one is my attempt to give the bulk of the smart world, who will never do, what I did, what is it like to be on a horse and encounter a rhino?

Speaker 1: 13:45

What is it like?

Speaker 3: 13:47

Because you're basically riding in the zoo. There's walls, but you're in them. I mean, there's things that you're inside of and there's not every encounter, obviously, because we rode along for over a little week. But then the second part is I pull a leadership principle from it and this was fascinating to me. So I had a few people that I was bouncing ideas off and helping me and my brain is wired toward what's the positive principle? What do we want to pay attention to? Yes, right, so, for example, it may be. How do you create collaborative teams in a common focus? That might be one of them, or what I call circular trust. How do you establish circular trust? But it was fascinating and there were people that would come up with a negative principle. Oh, you could call it this this has happened to me at work and I'm like, interesting, it's really interesting to me. So the second half of each chapter is a principle that I pulled from that encounter. And then I interviewed leaders from around the world to run and run organizations like EPP and Unilever.

Speaker 3: 14:47

And somebody who runs a business, one of the best chick-fil-a's in the country. I mean complete spectrum, right all over the map, because I wanted everyone to be able to go oh, I can lift that and do that. And so I asked them all to be very, very intentional and I said and I will push back on you, because if you say something like teamwork is really important, I'm going to lose my mind. Ok, we're not doing those kind of answers. We got that far, hopefully, but what do you do in these kind of situations?

Speaker 3: 15:15

And so they were so gracious, so that's the second half of each chapter, and then there's photographs in there, and then I had you and I have a shared colleague, lisa Rothstein, who just she had a blast creating custom illustrations for the book as well. So, it is literally a coffee table book that's only available through me, and so that's it Recalibratetoday and they can go find everything about that, and since we live in an Amazon world, I pay the shipping Right.

Speaker 2: 15:41

Yes.

Speaker 3: 15:42

And then if people are like no, no, I want an e-book. Thank you so much. It's available on Amazon, so either way people want. I wasn't originally planning on doing an e-book, because it's just the photographs, the images, the feel. Everybody I've talked to who's held it is like oh Right, yes, I'm that guy.

Speaker 2: 15:59

I'm like this is really nice when it's showing up. First I got in the post office and it wasn't where it's supposed to be. Then I got in, like this is really nice. I said so good, I mean the paper and the quality. I said I have to put this One of the best gifts I've received From all my podcasts. The best gift I've received.

Speaker 3: 16:20

Well, that's a visit.

Speaker 2: 16:21

You did a really good job with that.

Speaker 3: 16:23

Well, thank you.

Speaker 2: 16:23

So it's really depending on what people want.

Speaker 3: 16:26

I had somebody who says this is too amazing. I want to write in it, but I can't to face it. Yeah. And I said well, there you go, just buy a second one, then you can mark up one.

Speaker 2: 16:35

Yeah, I won't write in it Because it really is. When I say quality, you've invested in it and I love that you invested in what you saw it to be, Because sometimes we take shortcuts and I'll tie that into leadership the fact that you've taken that lift and what you wanted it to be. How do we speak to leaders that think there's a shortcut to achieving what you want to achieve? Are there any shortcuts to that? Are there any shortcuts? Doesn't even exist.

Speaker 3: 16:59

Yeah, it doesn't. I mean, it's the shortcuts, it's the I can do things out of order, I can ignore things. I don't like that's gotten a lot of companies to wear there today and I think again, coming back to a physical world, you reap, you gather what you sow, and too many of us are like I just want to reap the good stuff and I don't want to sow nothing.

Speaker 3: 17:19

It's like well, how old are you? I mean, really, somehow we've gotten this idea, I think because so many people live in a virtual world, because you and I can do this. There are gifts and there's wonderful things that come from this, but I also see people who aren't connected to physical reality, forget that there is one. It's like, yeah, if somebody says to me I mean, I used to teach writing, horseback riding and I had some issues, well, I want to jump like Forfey and I'm like, well, two questions no, you're not. And two, how good is your insurance and do you really like paying? You can't even get on the horse yet. I mean, hello, I applaud your lofty goal, but no, and so we kind of, most of us understand it would be kind of awesome if you could ride and stay on before you try to jump event, maybe it just might be the better way to go.

Speaker 3: 18:13

There's something around kind of organizations and leadership choices and all of this good stuff that somehow we think those rules don't apply and it's getting us in a lot of really bad places. It's getting a lot of leaders exhausted, it's getting a lot of organizations churning people and burning up energy they don't have. And one of the phrases I use with people is you are a finite resource. Yes, you may not like that concept and when you're younger it really offends you, but you still are. Your finite may be longer than mine, but you're still a finite resource and it's what you choose to pay attention to. By default means you're not paying attention to other things. Yes, automatically, right, you have to be really attentive about that and I think with the framework. So that is the B99 Guiding Questions Framework. It is available on my website, no charge, no, nothing. Yes, you know, just go pull it down.

Speaker 2: 19:05

Yes.

Speaker 3: 19:06

But it helps you frame on. I am a minor resource. What do I need to be paying attention to? Yes, and by default, what do I need to ignore? Because right now, this is not the time of place and we seem to have lost that, you know, and so it's that sense with this. The framework at the center of it all is congruence, because I can't be amazing with my clarity. We all know exactly what we're doing, we got it, and then nobody has the right level of control and authority and autonomy they need. Yes, well, I'm thrilled for you on the clarity. Good job you go, but it's not going to carry everything, and so I think we get back to your question. We all have things that come easy for us, right?

Speaker 1: 19:44

There are things that are so effortless for you.

Speaker 3: 19:46

You're like well, I didn't even think I need to say that, because I just like do it right. And then there's different things that are easy for me, right? I laugh, my husband and I. I'm like, between the two of us, well, one really cool person because there's virtually no overlap right, I mean virtually not, because the things that are easy for him I'm like don't even Don't even ask me to do it.

Speaker 3: 20:06

It ain't going to happen, and likewise, things that are easy for me is like you go handle that because, no, I'm not doing it, and that's what we've kind of lost. I think that respect, that we need to all be good at different things Because we have ourselves.

Speaker 2: 20:21

You give me so much to unpack. I mean, you give me so much to unpack. Yeah, I would love to go back a little bit more. You said something that we've gotten to the place. You were successful as a CEO of a hospital. You did a phenomenal job. You're running a phenomenal company. But you said something I think we have lost the art of you reap what you sow. What did you have?

Speaker 2: 20:40

to plant for it to be that, Because people come up and you said doing the question, but you make it look easy. Ok, yeah, let's get past that statement. But what did you really have to sow?

Speaker 3: 20:52

Oh, that's a killer question. That wasn't intended. It's a different kind of sow. There's a phrase that I did not create, but I have used it relentlessly ever since I heard it and I don't think we've had a climate that I've not said this to at least once what you permit, you promote and we promote.

Speaker 2: 21:11

So I've got to write that down too. That's fabulous.

Speaker 3: 21:13

So what you permit, you promote. Now, this is true whether it's your own self personally. It's true whether it's a leader. It's true whether you're a parent. It's true whether you're a team member or the leader in an organization. It doesn't matter, because we tend to think that silence can mean approval. It's like so. If you don't pay attention to it, it must be OK. And what we don't often recognize is that everyone, when you're a leader, everyone, whether you know them or not, everyone is watching you.

Speaker 2: 21:46

Yes, and Cheryl said that several times. So if you're listening, she's absolutely right, whether you're their leader or not. If you're in a leadership role, oftentimes we think, well, I'm Maya's dad, but the other kids are not watching. Every kid is watching you when you show up as a parent. Every parent is watching when you show up as a parent. Every other person on everybody else's department or division is watching you if you're in a leadership role. So please don't think it just applies to where the people you are directly responsible for Everyone, like she said, everyone is watching you.

Speaker 3: 22:17

And the reason that becomes important is if people see you not stopping a behavior, then they go oh, I guess it's OK, and we don't have the congruence between what we say is important and what we hold ourselves to. I'm going to believe what you hold yourselves to and not what you tell me, and so then you're cheating trust right there. Because, you're saying one thing and doing another, and a smart person learns. I just ignore what you say because you don't read it anyway.

Speaker 2: 22:49

Yes. This is a quote I use in my book. For that too, Cheryl, the first book, there's a quote I use. I say if you're in a leadership role, your audio has to match your video. That's beautiful, absolutely, I say because your video becomes a lot louder than your words. I promise you, what you do is louder than what you say.

Speaker 3: 23:06

Absolutely, and if there's not congruence between it. Really it's not cool, so I think for me, it's that you, as a team of people, have to be focused on something that's bigger than you, because, again, one of the problems I see right now is we are elevating whining, we are elevating it's all about me and we're treating people and allowing them to behave as if we're running a kindergarten, where it's sort of OK, but still we're trying to get people to understand, even though there's more people. This is the whole world is not a whole around you.

Speaker 3: 23:38

So when you don't have an organizational vision and I don't necessarily use the word the same way everybody else does, but when you don't have.

Speaker 3: 23:44

This is who we are, this is how we behave to get there. This is how we behave outward. This is why we exist. We don't deliver on this, we don't disperse to exist.

Speaker 3: 23:57

And so if everyone gets that and then if they don't get that, then there's the door. Then it's a whole lot more possible to create kind of an environment where everybody's like OK, this isn't just about me, but when I'm going to scream because I saw you get something that I didn't get or I think I'm not treated right, and then that makes somebody else scream, who makes somebody else scream? It's like, excuse me. And so if you don't stop it really quickly and I'm not talking being hateful, but it's a workplace, it is a place to accomplish something. That is not about you, and when we make it about us individually, that's a problem. So I was a hospital president, one of many At the time, I want to say there's probably 15 of us, but there was also a lot of leaders of outpatient facilities and free standing surgery centers and the other Big organizations. So 23, 25,000 people give or take. So I reported to the second in command of that whole thing.

Speaker 3: 24:52

And he said to me he goes, Cheryl, your transition to the president was kind of a non-event. He goes, you just did it right. And he's like, and thank you for understanding, Because he told me he says if y'all don't perform, I'm going to close you down, Not because we weren't performing, but because other people really rooted our space right. And I'm like, and I did that. I'm not having a hissy over it, that's reality and so it's like, but here's what we're going to do and here's how we're going to do it.

Speaker 3: 25:19

On the flip side, then, I don't mean being a roller. So, for example, our hospital, when I took over as president, because I had been there doing quality risk in operation was just unbelievable with care. But our physical environment was a time capsule, right. And when people are walking going, well, I want to go to this hospital or that one. When I have a choice, well, I'm going to go to that one because it looks newer, Because they assume that, well, if it looks newer, it should be better. And so, because we were so good, we always had, shall we say, optimistic financial targets, right.

Speaker 2: 25:58

Yes.

Speaker 3: 25:59

Anybody else would just be like that's not possible in a hospital setting. But we always hit it. So, of course, then they got more optimistic than last year. But what I said to him as soon as I became president? I said, okay, here's the deal. I said we are going to do our best, we always will.

Speaker 1: 26:15

And if we hit our target in.

Speaker 3: 26:16

April, we're still going to bust our jobs all the way to December. That's just who we are. That being said, you're tying my hands when you won't give us the dollars to upgrade this facility, Because people go and they're walking around and our competition is all new and they're not able to see past that. Nor should we expect them to Right.

Speaker 1: 26:38

Yes, yeah, like a time capsule.

Speaker 3: 26:40

That's not their problem. So we will still do the best. We can just say it. And we got our money and we got our hospital redone so that the physical appearance matched.

Speaker 3: 26:52

Now I didn't have a history but I'm like here's the gig, right? You know you're making a decision. I'm telling you how I'm going to deal with this. I'm not going to lose sleep over not making targets, because if you can't give us what we need to make them and too few leaders are willing to have that conversation without hysteria, you know, and it's like, just be rational, think of all the perspectives.

Speaker 3: 27:18

Again, it's not just about me, because I didn't frame it about us really at all. You know, our care is still going to be amazing. We're just going to not be able to provide it to some people who are going to choose somewhere else, all right. So it's having that ability as a leader, because then your people see that right and the people that you report to feel that because you're not making their lives miserable, because there are leaders who will make their lives miserable, and so then that leader is responsible for what you permit. You permit, right, I mean. So it kind of goes all the way around, but it's really to me it's having that clarity and sticking with it.

Speaker 3: 27:59

And when we first had people come in like anybody who came into our hospital was interviewed not only by the manager, but once they passed the manager, they would then go and meet with the people they would be working with, and those people they would be working with had the go-no-go decision, because they're gonna be the ones working with them. They're gonna be the one who needs help immediately with a patient who's crashing right or who they can trust to do something while they do something else right. So they had that decision.

Speaker 3: 28:30

And so that changes a lot when you make the decision, because they would say to us when we would need people, and they would turn everybody down and they would be like I'd rather work short than work with them, wow. So I think we've gotten to the point sometimes where a body is better. No, no, no, no. The wrong body is like way worse than nobody.

Speaker 2: 28:50

It will cost you more.

Speaker 3: 28:52

Good, and this in so many ways. But then, at the same time, I would meet with people when they would come in and I would say to them too, saying you have been invited into an amazing organization. We're so glad you're here. And from day one like today, I really, really want to hear from you we all do when you see things, you're like why are you doing it that way? I did it, did it, did it somewhere else, it was fabulous. Because when it's fresh is when you're gonna have most of the kind of like this. So, please, because we want to learn, we want to get better At the same time, you have been invited into an amazing place. We don't tolerate breaking that down. So if you don't want to work the way we work here, then you won't be able to stay.

Speaker 2: 29:32

I find a little time to show that people will rise to the occasion. If you provide the resources and make sure you manage expectations, they'll rise to the occasion and you want to set it. A couple of things I want to unpack that. You said it's enjoyable and you show up as though it's enjoyable, but your career in being the CEO of the hospital you mentioned earlier that you really didn't pick it. It picked you. Yes, Well, stated yes. So how do you as a leader when you don't pick it? Because sometimes you got your aspirations, your dreams and your goals and where you're gonna be at, and then you find yourself somewhere totally not what you would have chosen, but it chose you.

Speaker 2: 30:07

How do you help leaders embrace that? Show up, hold hard and lean all the way in and do a phenomenal job, because once you embraced it, you showed up to make sure that you can make a difference. How do you embrace it?

Speaker 3: 30:18

You're just asking awesome questions. So for me it's a personal decision about how I'm gonna move through life. Okay, so if I'm going to do something, I'm gonna do the best I can, and the reason in my based on things that I know that I was asked to be president was because of what I did in roles, when I didn't know if anybody was looking, but I saw something needed to be dealt with and so I fixed it. And so I think too often people have this idea well, when I'm in a really big spot, they don't really show up and it's like well, you have no right to a big spot.

Speaker 2: 30:54

Then If it's all about that, if it's all about the recognition, so Say that again, because I mean you didn't hear that, because, yeah, everybody doesn't listen, because that was one of those speed bumps that you need to hear.

Speaker 3: 31:04

Yeah, I mean so. For me it's like if I am saying yes to something, then I am obligated to do the best I can, right, I don't care what it is, I don't care if I'm deciding I'm gonna sweep the floor or if I'm gonna pitch in because our electronic health record burped and our staff need help and so I can stay through the night to help them with my fit-a-ful clinical non-self right. So it's a decision you make, it's a choice. This goes back to a couple of what we were talking about before.

Speaker 3: 31:34

It's bigger than you and when you reduce it to you, then it's never gonna feel good because you're always jockeying for position because somebody else got something that should have been yours, right? I don't wanna go through life that way. Now I also have a different perspective and I feel like God's put me here to do certain things and those are the things I'm here to do, and far be it from eating. I'm like I'm eating. You know that's not a conversation I really wanna have, okay, so that certainly drives and informs kind of who I am and how I approach things. But even if that's not your comfort, you can still make a choice that says, if myself has said yes. Whether I'm saying yes because I'm taking a paycheck, you know, or I've physically said yes, I will do this. It's on you to not be high maintenance.

Speaker 2: 32:24

Oftentimes people think the organization owes them everything and become very high maintenance. And you put a different spin. You said it's up to me to not be high maintenance. That's a different mindset because, in today's world. They owe me everything. They're supposed to do this, the organization does this. The organization does this. My training, my promotion, my counseling, my coaching, my pay Like the list just gets written.

Speaker 3: 32:50

I hope for all of you. Yeah, I hope for life.

Speaker 2: 32:53

But you said something I think is super important for us to understand in the professional industry and even in our personal lives it's up to us not to be high maintenance. Where did you come up with that? Because I don't know if I've ever heard that in leadership, and I do a lot of leadership. Where did you come up with that concept so we can do better?

Speaker 3: 33:10

I think it's just a product of my strange mind. I mean, to me work is an exchange. So, yes, it's your job not to be high maintenance because nobody owes you anything, despite what everybody would like to tell you. And if you think everybody owes you something, then go do your own gig and make your own roles and see how well that works for you. When it's all about you, because other people don't care, because it's all about them, I mean it just doesn't hold up. But if that's your bent, then you go for it. I mean, back to kind of the safari. One of the things that was so clear on the first day is we are all in this together. I can't say I didn't know my name would be here and then leave and live right.

Speaker 3: 33:47

Not how it's gonna work, and so that was one of the things that I'm like oh this is so about organization, but when you choose to be high maintenance, you're really saying it's all about me and so to me it is an exchange. You get a paycheck in exchange for creating an outcome, and part of that outcome that you're responsible to own is how you show up and what you choose to do. And is it about you and is it not about you and newsflash? It is not Our hospital, it was not about our staff, and I said to them I said our goal, the phrase that I came up with for us, all of our decisions are going to be driven by us being the absolute best place in the world to give and receive care period, and if we're looking at making a decision that doesn't support that, then we don't even need to entertain a decision. Why are we wasting our time? Will it do that? No, then get out of here. I mean, what are you thinking?

Speaker 3: 34:41

And the flip side is like if we don't give amazing care, we don't deserve to exist. Now do we have to take exceptional care of our staff? Absolutely, did I take them to raise?

Speaker 3: 34:53

No, and we've allowed organizations to become and for some reason some have taken on that responsibility as if you've taken this person to raise. No, you haven't. I mean, you're showing up to do something and contribute, not to have all of your life needs met. I mean, come on, so we've just dumped all this crap pardon my French on to organizations and they've accepted it, and enough, have accepted it that people have come to believe well, yeah, I did it. And I'm like and what are you all achieving for other people beyond yourself, if you can be completely inward focused and that's cool? I didn't. I don't know how to do that Right.

Speaker 2: 35:32

Yes, Not what we're here for. Yes, and I love it because I believe in the exact same thing that I'm not inwardly focused. I want to take a different spin for you, because there are a lot of women that follow and we're working in the space of women elevating women, sponsoring, advocating for and I'm 100% behind. I think there's some phenomenal women that I've learned from, that supported me, that's been advocates, that's been partners and champions. I get to coach a lot of women leaders and they like, hey, we're on my voice, it's not heard in the room. They're frustrated, they irritate and they walk away from the challenge of staying in the course until they get enough. What advice do you give to a young female leader that's coming up that wants to be in an executive role? What are some of the best things that you can share with our female leaders that are listening? Or some of this coaching one how to prep yourself without chasing the position.

Speaker 3: 36:18

So I think, first, it does come back to recognizing that every organization does have a culture. Yes, they just do. And is it always fair? No, of course not. I mean, does that organization really go? Ooh, we like people that come from this university and we did lose right? I mean, or is it like well, I know you and this, that and this thing, but what people need to understand is yes, that's true.

Speaker 3: 36:38

Okay, so I have no magic fairy does to sprinkle and make that culture At the same time, when you're come from, is to make things better for the organization and the people as a whole. You will stand out, because that's not really common anymore, right, wow, and so when your suggestions and your energy is around, what are we here to do? It puts you in a really different place. And so I would say and when I first started reporting to my first really senior boss was president, and I got a different boss later when my person moved even higher and I said to them I said my job is to make you look good and not cause you any work at all. That's my job. I don't want you to have to worry about.

Speaker 3: 37:22

Is there gonna be something going on there that I'm gonna hear about in the hallway? And it could be my job or something going on I haven't heard about. And he said my job is to make you look good and be pretty much an awareness, and it was like, oh, thank you. And so then I earned the right to have the kind of what could be challenging conversations, because it wasn't about me, and so too often it's hard. When you really want something and you feel like it's just outside of your grasp, it's hard to not fight for it. And then it becomes your fighting for you. And I would say again back to again being congruent with our earlier conversation make it about what the organization means. That's what I did in my earlier roles. My job at the time was I was responsible for art, quality and risk management.

Speaker 3: 38:06

Pretty narrow lane, hugely important lane, but pretty narrow lane, yes Well it turns out because of our age, of our facility, we had an asbestos issue and so it didn't fall in my job description, it didn't really fall cleanly in anybody's, and so I'm like, okay, I'm going to learn about asbestos, I'm going to learn what we need to do, I'm going to learn how we keep everybody safe. I'm going to do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. And I made it happen. And you can't convince me that it's things like that that didn't put me on people's radar. When there was a different role, they added, ultimately, operations to my role. They created for those of you in HR.

Speaker 3: 38:45

Yes, yes, that's right, they created a position just for me. Okay, because it's like okay, we need to let Cheryl kind of keep growing, because she's always finding stuff to do right, you know.

Speaker 3: 38:58

And then it was like, okay, an easier step to president. But it's that hard task, of all of those things, and I will say pay attention, because I had the same thing happen to me and pay attention to what gets listened to. It may be because it's their favorite person and there's nothing you're going to do, right, they only listen to their favorite person. If that's the case, recognize it, don't beat your head flat against a wall. Okay, yes, but if you have such amazing ideas that can't be ignored, that's going to help. But the other piece is just to go. Am I communicating in a way that's honored here? Do we honor clarity? Do we honor brevity? Do we honor say it once, repeat it 10 times? I mean, what is it that really seems to get across? Because what I found for me, one of my strengths is clarity and brevity. It's like look at it, find it, two words to describe it, move on. And what I found was somebody else would say the same thing but add about a hundred more words, and they would be like oh that's fabulous.

Speaker 3: 39:59

I'm like okay, note to self, I need to expand more, because to me it's self-evident. I took all of those leaks, but I understood from observation that other people weren't taking that journey with me. I needed to lay the bevels out for it yes.

Speaker 3: 40:15

And that doesn't make me better or worse, it's just different, right? So it's a matter too, and women often have a style that is different than them. Different cultures have different styles, volumes, ways of expressing themselves, so it's not unique to gender. But at the same time, observe, is there a certain thing that seems to keep working? Now, if it's a favorite person, you're not gonna battle that. You can still be amazing, and then they may have to pay attention just because they can't afford to do anything. But it's also about if I'm not getting heard. Is there a difference in the way I'm communicating it? Is there a difference in the way I'm preparing people to hear it Is?

Speaker 3: 40:53

there a different way that other people are raising the issue. So take it as a moment to go. Is there something in there that I could learn from and tweak about how I show up? Because all of us have ways we can tweak and improve how we show up. You know, the thing is I was so impressed with when I was reaching out to the leaders for the book Some of them I knew personally, some of them I did not Without. I think almost I can say there's 100% of the time I go well, I don't really know that I have much to offer, I'm still learning, whereas you talk to other people who are like I don't need no stinkin' book, I know everything I need to know. Right, it's like well, that's why they're in the book and you're not.

Speaker 1: 41:33

Yes, yes.

Speaker 3: 41:35

So that was an ongoing theme, right? The constant learning. I need to know more before I can add value and it's like, no, no, no, no, we can just get. Come on, you can share, it's good, you know. So it's all of those pieces. I mean, that's a long answer to your question, but that would be what I would offer. How do you?

Speaker 2: 41:51

help individuals in general get past the imposter syndrome. Most people, by comparison, have imposter syndrome at some time in their career.

Speaker 3: 42:01

How do you?

Speaker 2: 42:02

help navigate that.

Speaker 3: 42:04

I think part of it is we all have a very short memory and we have a very short attention span. It was short before, I think all the social media stuff and what do you mean?

Speaker 1: 42:13

it take 30 seconds for the page to load.

Speaker 3: 42:15

I'm not waitin' for that. You know, it's a really good idea to just kind of keep track, however you keep track digitally your paper or whatever of the things that you've done, the things that you've learned, and to recognize that every single person you meet has had to learn to be able to do what they do now. Now, I will never be an engineer. My husband is an engineer. His brain is a strange and wonderful thing in my world, right? So you've got to be realistic. If I'm going to try and spin my wheels going, I'm gonna be an engineer. It's like, oh honey, give it up. I mean, now there are fabulous female engineers. There's nothing to do with sex, they're just not the way the brain is put together. So it's like know where you know and ask other people what seems easy for me, because people outside of you, because the same things aren't easy for them they're like oh yeah, you're really good at it.

Speaker 3: 43:09

You're like oh, I am, oh, everybody's not, my guests are not, but I didn't really think about it. I mean, so those are some things and just accept that it is what it is. And, honestly, if you have an imposter syndrome, to me, that says that you care enough to want to do a good job, because if you didn't care about the outcome you'd be like whatever.

Speaker 3: 43:32

And there are gender-related disorders? Right. I mean some of the studies I just found fascinating. You take a job description. The woman says oh, I don't meet all the criteria, I'm not applying. And guys says I mean one and a quarter, I'm applying, right.

Speaker 2: 43:44

Yes, that's true. I tell people that. Yes, you know I mean.

Speaker 3: 43:48

so there are certainly things we need to recognize and go well maybe I don't have to meet all of them, because the worst thing will happen is I'll say no. But again, think about what you offer that someone else might not.

Speaker 2: 44:00

Yeah, phenomenal insight. I mean, be mindful of the self-illumination beliefs. I think sometimes we hold ourselves back simply because we've never done it. And I love that you shared, because I say that statement like guys will apply for a job now and only know one quarter of it, yes, and think they're the best at it. I mean, I know we do. And I'm like, look like. You know, I'll apply for a job if I know 25% of the job description.

Speaker 2: 44:20

And you also covered, cheryl, which was really, really important. Sometimes your job description doesn't actually particularly everything you may have to do or things that may show up that's not in your job description and you can't throw a hissy fit about it. You gotta lean in like as fast as it was for you, but you say, okay, if it's about the organization, what can I do? And I think sometimes we get so caught up in, well, my job description. Even as a consultant, you know, I work with clients. We've said, well, I got to do an amendment because the scope of work. I say time out, time out. Let's not do this to our client, let's look at can we do this? What does it cost us, austin? But every little thing that changes I don't want to go to my client's cell, by the way, that wasn't in there. I got to change that. And I think we do get caught up in the language that's in contracts or job descriptions and we don't show up as our best.

Speaker 3: 45:06

Mm-hmm, I agree. I mean our job descriptions had another line and other duties as assigned.

Speaker 2: 45:12

Yes, they charge you.

Speaker 3: 45:14

They charge you. Now I would encourage people to do and again, I'm not talking if you're so overrun there you don't even have a brain cell to think about how to walk to your car safely, you know. But if you have the capacity in the bandwidth and something needs doing and it doesn't belong to anybody, then hey and you learn. I can tell you more about asbestos than you ever want to know right, yes, yes Was it something I was really eager to learn, but no, it's OK it is transferable knowledge for other things as well.

Speaker 3: 45:43

So those would be some things I would strongly encourage people to just be willing to do.

Speaker 2: 45:48

What is the greatest lesson that you feel like you've learned when you were CEO of the hospital? That actually made you a better person.

Speaker 3: 45:57

I would say, be willing to step in the discomfort. I never, ever liked people issues and I avoided some things that I shouldn't have avoided. And it bit us all later. The permit you promote, and just understanding that just and we've seen the same thing with our clients, right, something, they tried something, it didn't work. So now they're just like I'm not ever dealing with that anymore, you'll never. I don't care, I don't care if it's going to eat us for lunch, I don't care, I'm not doing it. No, you can't make me. And then I'm like well, here's a problem that should have been dealt with five years ago and it's got to be done. Like now.

Speaker 3: 46:31

And I will help you, right. So it's that willingness to go sometimes the stuff that you just want to run screaming from is what you have to deal with, because the drag of it is way worse than just doing it. Just deal with it. No, I'm not saying, be cavalier, be callous, do it the right way, but go. Yeah, running screaming into the night is not a viable option here, and so I think really for me.

Speaker 3: 46:55

And then you generally survive the other side of it and you're kind of like, oh, so next time something I feel like then just deal with it and then it goes away really quick. It doesn't dog me for a year, right. So I think that to me and it's all the more critical if you're a leader, but it's vital if you're just leading you, because I don't know if anybody else has ever felt this way, but the situation I described in the book, or if I'm physically sick, it's like I just want to leave me somewhere until I feel better because I'm getting on my nerves yes, yes, deal with it and move on. Don't drag it out, don't make it way worse than it needs to be, because that's generally what avoidance does for us, is it drags. And if you leave, make no mistake, it's dragging on your people.

Speaker 2: 47:45

Yeah, so, cheryl, for a long little conversation, a lot of insight. Is there anything you want to leave the audience with that? I didn't ask you about that. You want to share?

Speaker 3: 47:52

You ask such amazing questions. I think if people take action on just one of the things that was relevant to them. That can be amazing and it's like what's the next thing I need to do? And then just do it. Don't overwhelm yourself with well and the other stuff will fall into place, but deal with it, the big thing right in front of your nose, and deal with it and move on and then, trust me, the next thing will pop itself right up.

Speaker 2: 48:16

Yes, yes it will. You don't have to look for it, it will show up. Yes, you do not have to go looking for it. It will be waiting for you in your open eyes.

Speaker 3: 48:25

Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2: 48:27

Yes, how do people reach you? Thank you for sharing such phenomenal information. So how do people reach you and the best way to contact you?

Speaker 3: 48:35

So I'm more than happy just to share my direct email. It's Cherylcagrwhile at recalibratetoday. It is notcom which you docom. You get someone else, you don't get me.

Speaker 2: 48:45

Yes.

Speaker 3: 48:46

And so you can certainly reach me that way. You can reach me on LinkedIn. Under recalibrate Again, I show up as Cheryl Lynn-Mowley, because I discovered when I went to make a personal website that somebody else already has Cheryl Mowley. I'm like wow, because Mowley's not a common name.

Speaker 2: 48:59

I'm like no, it's not.

Speaker 3: 49:01

So you can find me there. Obviously, you can just say you can find the ebook on Amazon. You can get the coffee table book through my website, recalibratetoday. We go for something really racy. There's a tab that says Cheryl's book. It's just really confusing. The other thing that I want to offer your listeners, so we talked about on the website, there's a tab as well for the B99, the frame. If people want to do it, I have created a couple of quizzes that we're opening up to your folks, and so the first quiz is what are the three puzzle pieces of the framework that you're currently rocking right along on their strengths are doing an amazing kudos, good job, which takes you to the second quiz of me what are the things that you just not? They ain't happening.

Speaker 1: 49:48

Or they're not happening.

Speaker 3: 49:49

well, right, and they're biting you. They're a drag, and so I'm inviting anybody who would like to take both of those quizzes.

Speaker 3: 49:56

And then they can reach out to me via email and said hey, heard you're here, and then I'm happy to spend about half an hour with them, just kind of going over what can you personally do deeper? The quizzes, the results give them already some things, but if they're at that point where they're like this is important to me, then reach out and do that. So we should have sent you the links for that, so somebody can certainly find that in the description. But those would really be the website, me personally, linkedin, any of those Fuller.

Speaker 2: 50:24

Yes, yes, thank you, and I was going to say please take advantage of everything that she's offering to our community Phenomenal. I've been knowing her for years. I've always followed her and watched the work that she does, and I personally always try to be around people that I see as really good at what they do, because that's my measuring stick, and so kudos to someone that I use to measure for me to get better and hold me accountable, especially in our community. We say iron shop is iron and you want somebody around you that's going to make you better, and what I do know is you cannot, at any given time, always sharpen your own knife. You're going to need someone else to help you.

Speaker 1: 50:56

So I think that's too, important, it's a lot faster.

Speaker 3: 50:58

It's a lot faster. Yes, it's a lot faster. It may hurt more, but it's a lot faster. And at this point, who wants to waste time?

Speaker 2: 51:06

Yeah, phenomenal guests. For those of you that are following us, we release a podcast every single Monday. Again, ron Harvey, with Global Core Strategies and Consulting Leadership Firm out of Columbia, so happy that you joined us, happy that you listened to what we share today. Hope we added value for you. To be a better leader that's the ultimate goal. It's better person, better leader, better organization, better world, and everybody knows we need better leaders across the entire world. Today. It's a real challenge that we're concerned about, and so Cheryl and I are on this adventure together to help make leaders better, to take care of the people that we're responsible to. So we will release this every Monday for you. So thank you all for joining us, thank you all for hanging in there with us and feel free to reach either one of us at any time, and if I can put you in touch with Cheryl, I'd be more than happy to make sure you get access to her so you can leverage her services. So thank you all for joining us.

Speaker 1: 51:54

Well, we hope you enjoy this edition of Unpacked Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron Unpacked's sound advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are or the people you serve, because people always matter. Thank you.