The Journey to Authentic Leadership and Generational Engagement

Discover the transformative power of leadership that transcends traditional roles and delves into the heart of emotional intelligence with Paul Glover, a former trial lawyer turned leadership coach. Together, we dissect the seismic shift from transactional to relational dynamics in the workplace, a change that has become more pronounced in the wake of the pandemic. As leaders, we're often challenged by the difference between how we see ourselves and how others perceive us—Paul and I tackle this head-on, discussing the uncomfortable yet rewarding journey towards self-improvement and the critical role feedback plays in our professional growth.

Ever wondered what makes a leader truly magnetic? In this episode, I break down the 'three A's' of executive presence—Attractiveness, Attention, and Appreciation—and why these traits, along with authenticity and vulnerability, are key to amplifying your influence. We scrutinize the intricate dance of nonverbal communication, approachability, and the psychological safety necessary for high-performing teams. Through personal anecdotes and professional insights, we convey how adjusting your leadership style to the evolving needs of your team, especially the emerging Gen Z workforce, can make all the difference in retention and engagement.

Join us for a conversation that doesn't just skim the surface but provides actionable strategies for leaders looking to make a lasting impact. As we wrap up, Paul and I extend the invitation to continue exploring these leadership revelations with us every Monday. By sharing our podcast with your team, you're not just tuning in for another episode; you're embarking on a collective journey of growth and learning that promises to reshape your organization's culture from the inside out.

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Just Make A Difference: Leading Under Pressure by Ron Harvey

“If you don’t have something to measure your growth, you won’t be self-aware or intentional about your growth.”

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Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host leadership consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron's delighted to have you join us as he unpacks and shares his leadership experience, designed to help you in your leadership journey. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.

Speaker 2: 0:28

Well, good afternoon. This is Ron Harvey, the Vice President and the Chief Operating Officer of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. We are a leadership firm based out of Columbia, south Carolina. My wife and I have been in business now just over 10 years in business, and it's all around leadership. Our company really focuses on creating a winning culture by helping organizations invest in their leaders. So we do executive coaching, we do team development, we do strategic planning, crucial conversations and building trust All those things that leaders are having a really tough time with us figuring out the new way forward in corporate America or being an entrepreneur, quite honestly, or in the industry.

Speaker 2: 1:03

So we love what we do and we don't have any clients. We have what we call partners. We come in with the organization to spend the long term with them. So we know them, they know us and we're working together towards a common goal versus an invoice. At the end of the day, we love the partnership.

Speaker 2: 1:17

So happy to do that, and what I do every single week is record a podcast with several people from around the world, and I use this podcast for a couple of things to bring some visibility to our organization, and the second part is to really talk about things that we talk about, often behind closed doors, and have our guests share their experiences, their challenges and some of the things they've done or constantly doing to make the world a better place. They showcase their books, their business and who they are as an organization. So love doing it, and so I'm fortunate enough to have Paul Glover with us, who's going to have a really good time with us. Unpack with Ron Harvey. So I want to pause and I want to hand the microphone over to my guest, paul Glover. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3: 2:00

Ron, thank you so much. It's really a privilege to be here. I appreciate the opportunity to have a conversation with you about what you just described the issues that post-pandemic leaders are having with the work environment and how they can solve some of those issues. Post-pandemic leadership coach. I am a recovering lawyer, practiced law for 30 years in the city of Chicago. As my wife says, you can try to stop being a lawyer.

Speaker 2: 2:31

You're always going to be a lawyer.

Speaker 3: 2:33

She actually has another word for that, but I won't use it. So when I stopped being a lawyer and it wasn't voluntary, but when I stopped being a lawyer I decided I was going to do something else with my career. And I took my experience as a trial lawyer and my ability to tell a story and also my experience working with leaders at organizations that I represented, and I decided I would try coaching. I don't have any certifications, I don't have any degrees. I've got a lot of experience. I also have a lot of experience of failing and I've taken that combination. I've put it together and have a coaching program that's now nationally based and I have decided, because of the pandemic, to change how I coach.

Speaker 3: 3:22

Before the pandemic it was very much a transactional relationship that leaders were engaged in with their employees, and I know that doesn't work anymore. If you're going to survive and excel as a leader, you need to understand that the relationship with your team has now got to be relationship based. If you can't do that, if you can't make that connection to your team on a personal level, it's not going to go well for you. So that's how I changed my coaching program when I started coaching. If you'd said the words emotional intelligence, you would have lost your client.

Speaker 3: 4:05

Yes, you would have said I'm not letting you. What are you? A tree hugger? You know we can't be doing that kind of stuff. Hr tells us not to get personal, so we're not doing any of that. Well, to me that has now become an essential obligation for every leader of a team. You better have the elements of emotional intelligence so that you can start to interact and form that relationship. So that's what I've based my new coaching practice.

Speaker 3: 4:34

I had the pre-pandemic and I have the post-pandemic and, by the way, I like the post-pandemic a lot more. It's much more enjoyable. But it also is starting to have impact as the new workforce starts to emerge. You know, employees before the pandemic really didn't have a lot of expectations of leaders because it was transactional. Once they discovered, because of the pandemic, that they could die going to work, they really had a mind shift change, yes, and when we look at the great resignation all of the terms that suddenly popped up, it has happened because employees no longer are willing to accept command and control industrial style leadership. Yes, and if you don't change with them, they're going to leave, they'll go someplace else. They would rather leave the job and be unemployed than work for a command and control team leader. I love that. I love the fact that they suddenly have a different perspective and Generation Z are change makers in the workplace.

Speaker 2: 5:43

Yeah, which is interesting, paul, as you shared that You've changed several times. You've changed from being a lawyer and you've been to a coaching practice and you've changed your coaching practice. How important is it for leaders to embrace change, which is the most difficult thing to do but necessary to do? How do you help leaders that are listening to us and, from your own experience, what are some real practical steps to help leaders that are listening to us and, from your own experience, what are some real practical steps to help leaders embrace change so they don't become irrelevant?

Speaker 3: 6:08

By the way, I have actually, just like you do, you're an experienced coach. The most difficult people to coach are people who are successful, but when they come to you, they have an itch that they need to scratch. Nobody comes to coaching and says I'm only here because I heard you, we'll have a good conversation. They expect me to be able to help them transform in some fashion. But, by the way and I'll give you my coaching philosophy, based on a testimonial that I got from one of my clients I asked for it and this is the testimonial he gave me he said Paul is like a Sherpa he will help you get to the mountaintop, but he will not carry your pack. That's the basis for my coaching. If you tell me that you want to accomplish something that you realize this itch needs to be scratched, first we'll discover what the itch is and then we'll talk about how you can scratch it. And the first thing that I do is we do a 360 degree review for a leader, because they may not know how they're perceived. In fact, most leaders don't know how they're perceived because the psychological safety is not there and they operate in an echo chamber. Whatever they say is just echoed back and forth, because people know that's what they want to hear. When we get that 360, we now have some objective information for us to start to have a conversation about what needs to change, and I always love to start off with communication. Yes, my communication is absolutely paramount for any relationship. You can't communicate, you can't have one.

Speaker 3: 7:50

Most leaders believe they're fantastic communicators and what we find out when we do the 360 and communication is the segment of the 360. We find out that leaders believe that they're communicating by telepathy, believe that they're communicating by telepathy. Yes, yeah, they're never clear. All right, so that's how they're perceived. Their team is guessing about what they want them to do, but anyway, so that's how I start. The process is that we take a look at this and we go here's an area that first is important, imperative that you get better at if you want to be a better leader. Now let's put together that action plan that's going to actually give you the tools necessary so that you can practice and get better. So that's pretty much it. I'm not going to tell anyone what they have to do to get better First. I don't know you right, we have that interaction, but your team knows you.

Speaker 2: 8:47

You're doing the 360. So they're getting feedback from all levels, which is important for all leaders that listen to this podcast. Feedback is essential for your growth. How do you help leaders when they get it? The feedback doesn't feel real good sometimes and, if people are being honest, you got things that you need to improve on. How do you help leaders get over themselves and embrace the feedback, versus worrying about the things that don't feel good?

Speaker 3: 9:10

Well, I'm pretty direct about this, Once I've got some objective. Remember you're talking to a recovering lawyer.

Speaker 2: 9:16

Yes, yes.

Speaker 3: 9:16

I collect evidence. I collect evidence, and once I have evidence that I make my case. I don't have any evidence Like my personal opinion doesn't matter. But first you've got to convince me that you want to change. And once we have this conversation about, here's the evidence we will then talk through if you, by the way, you can legitimately say I don't believe that. But you've got to do something more than give me your opinion Right? So they're suddenly faced with irrefutable evidence, and they're also faced with someone who's saying it is essential that you listen to this feedback, but also that you do something about it, because if you don't, you will never get feedback again. And so suddenly they're put on the spot. First they ask for it, now they've got it, and they have someone who has become their accountability buddy. I'm that person that's going to say well, you asked for it, you got it. Oh, I'm sorry, it hurt your feelings, by the way. Man up or woman up, and let's get about making you what you say. You want to be a more effective leader, but I can't tell you. I'll give you the most recent example.

Speaker 3: 10:28

A month ago I went through this process with a referral and we got the results, and he did not like it. He was really upset and he said I need a week to think about this, absolutely. A week later he contacted me and he said I want to do the 360 again with my team. I was like look, the deal is after a year. You know what's going to happen here after a year. We're going to do it because we're going to measure progress. He said no, no, I want to do it now. I said all right, convince me, we should do this, tell me why. He said well, I got my team together and I said we're going to do this until we get it right. And I said we're going to do this until we get it right. Needless to say, it was my last conversation with him so by the way that could happen.

Speaker 3: 11:12

And also I'm very frank about this 80% of all the referrals I get I don't work with because they won't commit to the hard work or they won't accept the reality.

Speaker 2: 11:23

So unpack that for a second. People that don't listen to us. If you're going to be effective, it's going to require some hard work and some tough looks in the mirror. So if I'm a young leader coming up and I've been here before where my ego came before my title how do you allow yourself to really move that out of the way so you can really become more effective at being a leader and I think every leader at some point you work hard to get to a certain level. If someone tells you their ego never got in the way, I'm like, yeah, sure, I know mine did. How do you help younger leaders that are listening, not make it about themselves and receive the feedback?

Speaker 3: 11:54

Well, I'm big on blind spots. Okay, I really think that. First, I know we all have them and I also I'm big on triggers. So one of the initial conversation I have is talking to leaders about their blind spots. Once we get the objective third party 360, that's a follow-up conversation where they say, well, I don't believe that or that feels it doesn't feel right. And we talk about the blind spots and connect their triggers to those blind spots and also connect that to their successes and their failures.

Speaker 3: 12:25

What I find so interesting is leaders always want to tell me how successful they are. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in how and why you failed when I forced them into that conversation. There's a realization that they do need to change or this is going to reoccur. And failure is tough for most leaders to accept. So once they are faced with it, then they will normally, if they are serious, they don't want to do it again. And we have a conversation about let's talk about what you have to do so you don't repeat that failure. About let's talk about what you have to do so you don't repeat that failure.

Speaker 2: 13:07

Connecting it to that reality, that very uncomfortable reality, and forcing them to face it. I think that's a coach's job. Yes, yes. So when you're thinking about the shift you've made and the transactional relationship versus transformational relationship, the connection in today's society, technology is leading the way. Everybody's with AI or cell phones or some type of technology Love technology. Totally agree, we need it as a way forward, but somewhere in there I feel, paul, we're so connected that we're disconnected. It's almost as though we're connected. The people that are farther away from us are closer to us because of technology and the people that are closest to us are farther away because of technology. Like we can't have a conversation in a room, but we could talk to someone across the ocean. How do you help us make sure that we build stronger relationships with the people that are counting on us? What are you helping people do in your coaching practice to make sure that it's a transformational, connected relationship?

Speaker 3: 13:56

I like to define executive presence. It's a lip service word, but there's really some good traits. One of them, I believe you have to be present. And being present requires that I've got a little formula I use. I call it the three A's. To be effective and to do this connection.

Speaker 3: 14:16

There are three A's. The first one is you have to be attractive. When I talk about attractive, it has nothing to do with being a good looking bald guy. It has to do with that positivity and that attitude that makes people want to work with you, not for you, and that requires that you have that EQ, that you are engaged, that you're committed, that you make eye contact. So I start off with attraction. The second one is attention. You cannot be a good leader, a great leader, unless you are willing to pay attention. And attention requires connection. You cannot pay attention to someone unless you've connected. And the final thing is appreciation. It's extraordinary to me how often we don't say thank you. I take those three elements and my last, by the way, is the fourth A.

Speaker 3: 15:11

The fourth A is application. I love the fact that everybody knows what to do, but they don't do it. But when I look at those three I go look, this is how you make a human connection. This is how you take transaction and turn it into relationship. These three very simple things that you practice on a daily basis with everyone you interact with, bar none. If you care about the relationship, this is how you grow the relationship, this is how you show respect, it's how you show trust and it's how you show caring. Three things so simple. I truly believe I've got a formula here that I wish I could make a million bucks off of, but it is so simple and you see, we try to complicate leadership.

Speaker 2: 16:00

Yes, we make that simple, very complicated and I told you I love your formula. So everybody that's listening. There are three A's and he gave us a bonus A as well. So attractive is important attention, appreciation and an application. So everything that Paul is sharing, he's given us answers. If you're listening. As a leader, unpack is about you getting better. It's not about you going and fix somebody else and make them better, Like start with you and help you get better and then you can extend outwardly. So can you go through again? So attractive, can you give them a really quick overview of how does someone become more attractive as a leader? And then I'll go to your other two A's and you can close. We can do the application. So what do I do? I'm a leader, I'm new in position. What do I do? I've worked hard, I have the degrees, Office is great and all these other things that make me physically look great. That's not what you're talking about.

Speaker 3: 16:51

What are you talking about, Good God? Vulnerability. That's where these come in. This is connected to attraction. They crave authenticity, which means you have to reveal yourself. For leaders, this is extraordinarily hard because they've been taught not to be vulnerable.

Speaker 2: 17:18

Yes.

Speaker 3: 17:19

We've been taught that for years. Of course, they have been told you must be infallible. Yes, because you're like the king. Believe me, nobody wants to be the king anymore. It's a terrible thing. I saw some statistics that shocked me. There have been more CEOs leave their position in 2023 than in the last five years 1,900 of them. 190 CEOs have died while being CEOs. This is a killer job that requires you suddenly change how you do it. If you want to carry the load, it will crush you. Say that again. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:02

Yeah, Because I think oftentimes we do too much and want to do everything. If you want to carry the load hashtag, it will crush you.

Speaker 3: 18:11

There is no way that it can't Think about the level of stress. I truly believe that an aspect of a great leader is dissipation of stress. Whenever you interact with an employee, a team member I even hate the word employee anymore team member whenever you interact with them, I guarantee you they are carrying stress, either personal or work related. A part of your job, if you care about this person, is to help dissipate their stress. What I found is leaders in this process take some of that stress on.

Speaker 2: 18:45

Yes.

Speaker 3: 18:47

I don't know how you don't do it. It's an energy interchange, right? That's exchange. So now, what do you do with the stress? You better be able to dissipate your stress before it kills you. I mean, that's truly where we're at with this. When we talk about self-care for leaders, it's one of those mean that's, that's truly where we're at with this. When we talk about self-care for leaders, it's one of those things again you've experienced, like I have Pre-pandemic. If I talked to a leader about self-care, they'd look at me like I don't have time for that.

Speaker 2: 19:13

I don't have time for that, Ron, I need to. I gotta make the bottom line. Got to take care.

Speaker 3: 19:18

That's exactly right. They would say oh, work-life balance? Ha, there's no work, there's only work. So guess what? Now you better accept the fact that the world has changed. It's moving so much faster and it is so much more stressful that you better be able to dissipate stress. Self-care is another issue. But back to this concept of attraction. So if I'm authentic and I am vulnerable and I am willing to share that I am not infallible and make mistakes, people are drawn to that, are drawn to that. People want to hear that you failed but survived. And sharing failure to me is something so alien to leaders that they're shocked when I tell them they have to. Yes, but if you do, you suddenly have opened up a completely different conversation with the person that you're interacting with. They suddenly realize it's okay for them to share their issues and failure. And once you've got the dialogue, it's reciprocity.

Speaker 2: 20:27

Yes, it creates a safe space. At the end of the day, it creates a space where it feels safe to say, oh, I didn't know, ron did this. You know, been in business 10 years. I traveled the world and I tell people. I said, yeah, the first three years we were not profitable, we didn't know. We figured it out, we had a lot of people that looked out for us and a lot of prayers, but we did not make a profit that we can speak about in the first three years and so we broke. Even I tell people I loved it and I kept doing it. So, yeah, how do you make sure you're attractive and I love what you're sharing, paul is all these things that help you being vulnerable, being transparent, being a human being, not having all the answers you know, being followed. How do you make sure, as a leader, that people see you as a human being? Because if you're so perfect, it's intimidating.

Speaker 3: 21:08

Perpetual curiosity. I am perpetually curious. I know that you've got something that you want to tell me or I need to hear. All I have to do is be curious about it and curious about you, right? So I want to know about you, and I want to know about you not only as a professional. I want to know about your personal life. I don't want intimate details. I'm not trying to be a psychologist, but if you want me to help you, I can no longer divide your personal life from your professional life, absolutely so if you're listening.

Speaker 2: 21:46

check what Paul said, which is a huge nugget. If you're in this space and you're in a leadership role, separating your personal from your professional is unrealistic. Going forward, you are one human being.

Speaker 2: 21:57

holistically, you bring you to work All the stuff that's happening at work, all the stuff that's happening at home, all the stuff that's happening in your life. It shows up and you may want to try to put it in a box and put it in the corner of your nice little secret compartment in your CEO office. It's unrealistic. I love that you share it, paul. Some things, as a leader, you're going to be able to help people with, and some things you're not. Don't fake it till you make it, because you can fake it until you break it. You do not have to solve every problem. You can refer out, you can ask for assistance. Leaders, stop feeling like you got to fix everything for everybody. There's no, I have not met a person that good yet. So be okay with saying, hey, I wish I could help, but I can't. Here's how I would refer you to that's still helping them.

Speaker 2: 22:38

You don't have to do it.

Speaker 3: 22:39

Yeah, let me give you a resource. Yes, that by itself is. As a leader. You know so much more about what's available that can be used as a resource than the person you're talking to. They don't know it exists. Don't believe they do. See, often we believe that everybody knows what we know. They don't know. We have a broader vision, we have a bigger spectrum of information, and once we realize what the issue is, I'm immediately thinking if I can't do something, here's someone who can. Yes, here's something you need to look at. Here's an article I want you to read.

Speaker 2: 23:21

Then we'll discuss it. That, to me, is all about generating attention. Yes, yes. So the third A a lot of leaders say they do it because they love it so much and they forget to appreciate. Can you speak to the appreciation?

Speaker 3: 23:32

Yeah, first, I don't think anybody ever appreciates enough. I just wrote an article about how many thank yous are enough thank yous. And the reality is we will say thank you in a restaurant to a stranger when they pass us the salt. Yes, now I have a relationship with you 40 hours a week or more. How many times have I said thank you? You know it was interesting During the pandemic, I would be talking to a leader on Friday and I would go out.

Speaker 3: 24:06

So you made it through the week because that was the deal right. Employees knew that they could die when no one knew what was going to happen. So people showed up, the essential workers. People showed up and they did the job. And so at the end of the week, my conversation with the leader would be so what did you say to your guys? And the classic answer was I'll see you on Monday. Wow, I said. You know that's an invitation back to hell. They had a terrible week and you know what you said come back and let's do some more. Welcome back next week. Don't do that. Are you kidding? No wonder everybody goes home and drinks trying to get ready for Monday.

Speaker 3: 24:46

I said how about saying thank you so much for being here with me, working as a team to get this job done in the face of all of these issues. We're all facing right. We're all facing right. I'm facing, you're facing, thank you. I said give them a hug. How about that? Don't send them home without the hug because you want them to realize how much you do appreciate the fact they showed up right. So many people weren't. So I've carried that over since then and as I talk to leaders throughout the week, I tell them what are you doing to show appreciation Not just for the employee, by the way, not just for the team member. I believe that the family is a part of that person, obviously their life. How about, every once in a while, you recognize the sacrifices that the family makes so that you get this person who does all of this work maybe travels, does overtime, whatever it may be, goes home stressed because of the day, and you know what that family is there waiting and supporting him. Are you supporting their family?

Speaker 2: 25:58

yes, how about on?

Speaker 3: 25:59

valentine's day, you send flowers to the wife on behalf of the employee or the spouse not the wife, the spouse. But think about this how about if you send a gift card home that says take your family out to dinner on me? Just think of the little things that you can do, not just for this person that is there in front of you, but for the support system this person depends on so they can be in front of you yes, yes, that to me is where we start to move beyond the normal boundaries and include the family.

Speaker 3: 26:33

By the way, if I'm a leader and that family thinks I'm a good guy, they will make sure that the guy that goes to work keeps coming to work.

Speaker 2: 26:43

Yes, yes, yes, I will tell you.

Speaker 3: 26:45

Why don't you go someplace else when you've got this guy as your leader?

Speaker 2: 26:49

Yeah, if you're going to create a great working environment, a culture that's sustainable, scalable and it's longevity. You know the military does a phenomenal job. 21 years of service is that. They know that. They always, every promotion, every award, every accolade, they invite the family to be a part of it. So it's not just hey, ron, show up.

Speaker 2: 27:08

And I think it taught us over time that behind this soldier is a person in a family and children. That even when you're having your worst day and you want to treat this person not so good, that's someone's hero or shero, that's someone's father, brother, sister, mother, that someone loves unconditionally. And so we got to do a really good job of taking care of those people that someone else is watching, that's supporting them and getting them back into your workforce. So appreciating their family dynamics is really, really big. You said something that I want to unpack a little bit. What do you say to the leader? And they exist, whether right or wrong.

Speaker 2: 27:44

There are some leaders that are not this. I'm not a fan of patting everybody on the back and everybody gets a trophy and all the accolades, and I've ran into leaders like why do I have to do all that? I say lovable, giving up kudos, pats on the back and recognizing. I wish they would just come to work and do their job. There are still some of those leaders that do exist. I wish they would just do their job. I give them a check. They come to work, they do their hours. I give them their check with even.

Speaker 3: 28:15

Well, by the way, that is pre-pandemic industrial age command and control. And I keep telling them you know, the dinosaurs died when the asteroid hit. The pandemic is the killer event for command and control industrial age, and you can accept it or not. And you're right. I have some leaders that absolutely hate the concept. I'll give you one. I always love the examples.

Speaker 3: 28:39

I did a 360 for a leader and it came back that he never smiled, he always had a stone face right and, of course, I told him. I said you know, when you walk in and people see you, they immediately decide not to tell you something you need to hear. Yes, you know, and one of my actions is, as a good leader, you're always looking for trouble because it's out there. You just haven't seen it yet. You know who sees it. It the guy on the front line or the woman on the front line? They see the trouble. Do you want them to tell you that or do you want to be caught by surprise because they'll go either way? Right, they'll either tell you, but they will only tell you if they believe that you've got a relationship and they have psychological safety to share.

Speaker 3: 29:26

When you walk in with that stone face on. You've told everybody it's going to be a bad day, stay away from me, and you know what? They're not stupid, they stay away. And when this crap storm that's coming hits you and you're caught by surprise, you've got nobody to blame but yourself. So if you want things to go easier, you better be guess what. And so, and we had this conversation, and he says even my mother tells me. I have to smile more. I said, well, good for her, she's right. And I said, but by the way tell me something.

Speaker 3: 30:02

You go out, you interact with customers, don't you? He said yeah, I said so. Tell me what your face looks like when you're sitting there with a customer? Are you telling jokes and smiling, or you got that stone face on and he's you know how you catch someone. Yes, he's like well, yeah, I'm kind of jo. I see, it's not that you can't do it, it's you don't want to Guess what. You better start wanting to. And it shocked the guy. He was like you're right, I always like to reframe the situation, the argument, the question, so it suddenly applies to that person in a way. They didn't think about it. Yes, I will tell you, paul it does work.

Speaker 2: 30:54

I mean, 21 years in military service and the military teaches. You know, for veterans that may be listening that they teach us not to smile and it still would look like nobody really knows what's going on with you. I mean, you really get trained for that and I think it has a purpose. It serves a purpose at the right time. And when I came out of uniform, paul, I had to literally flip that Me. Personally said okay, I had to learn how to smile again, because I always want every military photo I've ever taken. You better smile, you're not messing up our Christmas picture.

Speaker 3: 31:24

I don't know if we're of similar ages, but I grew up where, again, things were a lot rougher on everybody right. I mean, the concept when you went to work was oh, you want me to tell you how you're doing? Did you get your check this week? That's how you're doing.

Speaker 2: 31:39

That was it.

Speaker 3: 31:39

But again during that time I'm not saying it was right, but it was acceptable. No longer is so. Leaders who have that mindset have got to make some decisions. If you're going to continue to lead a high performing work team, you need to change your style. If you don't care about that and you're either going to run them off or kill them, care about that and you're either going to run them off or kill them. Yes, eventually it will catch up with you, right?

Speaker 3: 32:08

We look at retention and engagement are directly connected to the team leader. Absolutely, they are held. It should be. If they're not, they should be held accountable for that because they have. You know, gallop I'm a research geek. Gallup surveys show that team leaders have a 70% influence over team members. So if team members are engaged and committed and doing the job and staying, that's connected to them. If they're not doing any of those, that's also connected to them. And at some point the person above you says I can't afford to have you there anymore. I know you're confident, I know you love the company, but you're not capable of leading by the way it's okay to say step out of the spot, I've got someplace else for you.

Speaker 3: 32:57

So I'm looking at it. And again, gen Z is coming. This year, gen Z will outnumber baby boomers in the workplace. 2025, they will be 30% of the workplace. Now, this is a generation that came of age during the pandemic and they are a lot just not willing to accept the crap that we tried to put on them when we say, yes, you could do your job at home for five years, but now I need you in the office. It's not happening. No, it's not happening. The resistance is back. They're like who are you BS in here? The only reason you want me in the office so you can watch me.

Speaker 2: 33:41

That's the only reason Lack of trust. Yeah, lack of trust.

Speaker 3: 33:45

So guess what? This generation is a game changer because their mindset is already formed. They came out of that pandemic with a mindset that said and, by the way, a lot of them said I saw how you treated my parents and I didn't like it. You're not going to treat me that way and they're willing to quit. They don't have that loyalty because you don't have the loyalty to them. If you want them to stay you want that talent base you better change your leadership style, and the four A's are the way to do it.

Speaker 2: 34:18

Yes, the application. So, Paul, I know, as we were in the green room we were talking about. You know you're shifting careers and what you're doing now. You also have a book and can you share? I mean, you've written a book and I would love for you to share and promote it on the show.

Speaker 3: 34:31

First I will. I'm going to actually show the cover. It's called Warquake. I wrote this book 12 years ago and when I finished writing it I told my editor. I said nobody's going to buy this book and he said what do you mean? It's a good book.

Speaker 3: 34:44

I said the things that I say in here no one wants to hear. No leader wants to hear. I was prescient. Everything that I say in this book is now applicable to post-pandemic work environment. My book is now selling, of all things, 12 years later. When I first did it, my wife said well, how many books have you sold? I said three. She said biggest ego thing you ever did right, a book. Now, every once in a while I go yeah, I got a check for about 150 bucks here. You know you get coffee this week, so I would encourage anyone who has heard what I say and wants the written evidence that says here's what you have to do if you want to do these things. It's in the book, so it's available on Amazon. Of course, and I have six grandchildren. We're trying to put them through college because apparently that's my obligation, so so bye, bye, bye.

Speaker 2: 35:41

Yeah, thank you. Yes, paul, yeah, and I tell you, every time someone comes on, they're down to earth. We're having real conversations, and that's what we do promise you is that we're going to let you behind the curtain. Some of these conversations we wouldn't have had in boardroom 15, 20 years ago. It just wouldn't have been safe enough. If so, we'd have got marginalized or minimized.

Speaker 2: 35:58

I will tell you that our goal is to help you be better than we are, and that's our promise and commitment to you is anything we can share, anything that we can provide that's going to help you be effective as a leader, because it's super important. Entire world is counted on the next generation of leaders. You will be the politician, or you will be leading the community, or you will be leading some organization, or you become a parent, or you become a CEO of an organization Somewhere. We're going to count on you to get it right, and our goal and commitment to you is how do we help you be ready for what you're going to be dealing with? So thank you for joining what Paul and I've done here. So, paul, before we close out, how do people reach you and what's the best approach? So we know how to get the book? How do people reach you?

Speaker 3: 36:39

Very simple, paul at paulglovercoachingcom Not original but rememberable. So, yeah, I've got a website, paulgloverspeakscom, and also paulglovercoachingcom, and also on LinkedIn, paulglovercoaching. By the way, I enjoy the heck out of this conversation so I can tell your listeners, your audience, that if they do contact me, I will respond.

Speaker 2: 37:02

Yes, yes, he does. Yes, yeah, which is important for leaders. I love the thing when you talk about the three A's is we just look at being attractive, making sure you have the attention and then the appreciation. We got to be accessible to people and as leaders. If you rise to the top and you're no longer accessible, you're not a benefit to the people that are watching or that you're leading. So please make sure you're accessible. So if you ever sneak another A in there, paul, somewhere in there accessible, you know leaders make sure you're accessible. So, ron Harvey, with Global Course Strategies and Consulting, you can find us on the website, our company, we do a lot of things that we enjoy doing. Most importantly, we love pouring into our leaders that are leading, going to take the charge, going forward. So thank y'all for joining us, and we release a podcast every single Monday. Tell your friends, tell your crew, share it with your team. We'd love to have your support and until next time, paul and I are signing off with you today.

Speaker 1: 37:54

Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron unpacks sound advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are, for the people you serve, because people always matter.