Cultivating Consistency and Trust in Modern Management

Join me as I team up with leadership guru Doug Thorpe for a deep dive into the transformative power of leadership, discussing its ripple effects across society. Discover how we can harness this power to bridge leadership gaps in various sectors, honoring the trailblazing women who have defined leadership throughout history. We'll share our own leadership journeys, from my mission at Global Core Strategies and Consulting to cultivate leaders through the development of effective human beings, to Doug's first taste of leadership as a school crossing guard captain. Prepare to be inspired as we unravel the notion that true leadership is not about wielding authority, but about wielding influence and inspiration.

Navigating the nuances of work culture and employee engagement, we tackle the challenges leaders face in creating a purpose-driven environment. Performance evaluations, the magic of recognition, and the intricate dance of expectations versus fundamentals come under our scrutiny, as we underscore the necessity of trust and consistency in leadership. Doug and I also explore the delicate balance of managing a workforce comprised of diverse generations, sharing anecdotes and personal stories that bring to light the universal needs that unite us all.

Wrap up your listening experience with a conversation on the crucial role of collaboration in leadership. We champion the idea that leaders should not face their challenges in isolation, emphasizing the collective wisdom that can elevate their impact. With an open invitation to join our podcast community, we're here to offer practical solutions to your leadership challenges. So, tune in, engage, and let us guide you on your journey to leadership excellence with insights that promise to shape your approach and inspire your practice.

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Disclaimer:

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any organization or entity. The information provided in this podcast is intended for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners should consult with their own professional advisors before implementing any suggestions or recommendations made in this podcast. The speakers and guests are not responsible for any actions taken by listeners based on the information presented in this podcast. The podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice or services. The speakers and guests make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in this ...

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to Unpacked Podcast with your host leadership consultant, Ron Harvey of Global Core Strategies and Consulting. Ron's delighted to have you join us as he unpacks and shares his leadership experience, designed to help you in your leadership journey. Ron believes that leadership is the fundamental driver towards making a difference. So now to find out more of what it means to unpack leadership, here's your host, Ron Harvey.

Speaker 2: 0:28

Good afternoon. This is Ron Harvey. I'm the Vice President and the Chief Operating Officer for Global Core Strategies and Consulting, which is a leadership firm based out of Columbia, south Carolina, and our goal really is to help leaders create a winning culture and be prepared for leading the workforce of the future. We love it. My wife and I are in the business together and we get a chance to really work across all different dynamics of society just to help leaders be more effective, and they work hard to get there. But we don't know if there's a lot of energy put into them being effective as a leader. So we pay close attention to how do we help them be a better human being, which in turn allows them to be a better leader, be a better leader. So we're excited about what we do in our company. But what we've also done in our company is we've established a podcast, and that podcast is Unpacked with Ron Harvey, where we guarantee that we're going to always invite guests from all backgrounds. So if you're listening to us, we are not biased into anything that we're going to talk about. Unless it's unlawful or unethical, then we're probably not going to go there, but we literally allow our guests to come on and unpack the conversations and their experiences and their exposure, and I believe in all the diversity that we've had on this show and we'll continue to do that.

Speaker 2: 1:28

By the way, for all the women that are listening, happy Women's Month. We can't do it without you. Most of us know that already we act like we're in charge. There's two men on here, but we know there's somebody that poured into us and looked out for us. That's a female that helped us become great. So, to all the women that are listening, happy Women's History Month and thank you for all that you continue to do and advocate for in our society. But I have a phenomenal guest with us today, but I'm excited to have him. I'm super patient. He waited for me and we finally got the link to him. Doug, welcome to the show. I'm going to actually introduce yourself and tell us who you are and a little bit about you before we get into the heavy lifting of the podcast.

Speaker 3: 2:01

Thanks, ronald. I really appreciate this opportunity. Yeah folks, my name is Doug Thorpe. I am the founder and owner of a firm called Headway Exec. We do executive coaching and business advisory services. I, too, am a podcast host. My show is called Leadership Powered by Common Sense. My passion, lifelong passion, is leadership, the study of leadership and helping others become better leaders. I have a general opinion that the world is suffering. We have a leadership gap in all parts of our society and I'm not picking on the political guys we got enough trouble over there but just everywhere you turn, there's an opportunity for somebody to stand in the gap and volunteer to be an effective leader for a cause or a purpose or a change that needs to happen. And if I can have a hand in shaping people that are capable and willing to move in and do that for us, the world will be a better place, I'm sure of it.

Speaker 3: 3:06

Oh, yeah, this is going to be good, so hold on put your seatbelt on.

Speaker 2: 3:08

This is going to be good. I love the title of the podcast, oh my goodness. So this is going to be good. So we're going to have some conversation. We're going to talk leadership, and what does it look like. So, doug, how long have you been studying leadership and what drove you to the desire to do it? Because it's not easy to do it how did you get into the space and what are you excited about doing it?

Speaker 3: 3:31

Well, ronald, you know we actually have a joke around my house. I was appointed the captain of the crossing guard in elementary school and back in my day we put straps and badges on kids and sent us out into traffic to stop the cars so others could cross, and I don't know. The school leaders saw that was a bad idea a long time ago and stopped doing that. But when I was there we had a whole organization of student volunteers that did that and I worked my way up to be head of the whole thing by the time I got to fifth grade and loved it. I worked my way up to be head of the whole thing by the time I got to fifth grade and loved it.

Speaker 3: 4:08

Clearly, probably what I would point to is my first leadership opportunity.

Speaker 3: 4:14

Didn't know it at the time, but there was something about it that just made me curious and as I grew up and went on into things, I did think for a time that I might pursue a career as a military officer.

Speaker 3: 4:24

So I went through a lot of training in high school and college ROTC programs to be a leader. I was in fact commissioned and did serve for a time, but because of other life things chose to get out early and go into business, but I've just always been curious and intrigued by the concept of what it means to be a leader and the notion that leadership is its own thing and if you really want to be effective with a team, you have to be able to influence people, you have to be able to inspire and motivate. Without authority really is the way I like to look at it. In most organizations, leaders get appointed, they get moved into a box on the org chart and it's like poof, you're the manager, you're the supervisor. But I think good, effective leadership uses that authority of the position as a last resort. They use everything else in their tool bag to connect with their team, get things done and move the organization forward.

Speaker 2: 5:30

Yeah, doug, we know we've got to unpack a whole lot. You gave a whole lot to put on the table. So what Doug was referring to? That safety patrol with the orange belts. You were proud of that and you were in charge.

Speaker 3: 5:41

You bet I had the blue badge.

Speaker 2: 5:42

I was the captain, yeah, yes, but you said something that I want to unpack for us. You work extremely hard to get to this role and you just said, yeah, once you get there, don't use your authority first. Most of us the ego and the position and the title. You work all this time to get to this place and what you're saying is, once you get there, we want you to not leverage this authority. It comes with the position, but that's the last resort. Can you unpack that? Why is it so important to have that mindset and that approach?

Speaker 3: 6:14

Most anybody that's worked in a formal organization knows that there are positions of authority that are designed and they're delegated, they're appointed. Many organizations actually have a document called delegation of authority. And, like when I got out of the army, I was a banker for a while and we had a delegation of authority document that said you know, if you were an assistant vice president, you had a certain dollar authority up to a certain level. If the transaction was bigger than that, you had to take it up up to a certain level. If the transaction was bigger than that, you had to take it up a level, and so on and so on, and that all is this notion of the legal authority that comes with your position. And we all know it's there. We all understand and get the concept.

Speaker 3: 7:02

But what I'm saying is the person that really becomes an effective, respected and admired leader never uses that authority to influence people. And, to put it real bluntly, the person that is using the authority is going to say something like darn it, I'm your boss, get this done. Well, that is not motivating to much of anybody nowadays. And, again, most people when they take a position in a company, they understand the boss has that authority and you know I hired you. I can fire you, you know, yada, yada, but that is a last resort for being able to inspire and motivate people.

Speaker 2: 7:49

So, doug, thank you for your service to the country. I'm too a veteran. So thank you for your service. But is that a maturity mindset? Because I can tell you, when I first came in I was on the enlisted side and I got that first strike of being a sergeant Like I was it. I wanted to tell people and direct people and be in control. But I was very young and so I thought the world evolved around me. But then I got to this other place where, okay, they can help you be really really great or they can help you be really really bad, and you're going to have to not leverage that authority. But it came with maturity. I can't tell you where someone really taught me that early on. I learned it through making mistakes and watching people avoid me or sabotage me.

Speaker 3: 8:29

Yeah Well, what you're talking about there, I think it does come from the military. In many ways it's a classic style of management called command and control. I'm the commander, I control things, or I'm the senior enlisted, I control things. And for that system to work, yes, you have to have some element of that going on. But I'm going to speculate, and I know it was my experience.

Speaker 3: 8:59

Even inside that system, there were certain leaders that you would walk through fire for, literally, and did they ever assert it that way? Did they ever use the words I'm your commander, go do this? No, they never did. They always had another way of explaining the importance, explaining the significance, challenging you to be your best self. And because you were being given the opportunity to do that, you created a loyalty and a bond with that leader and there was no doubt in your mind you were going to do pretty much whatever they said, assuming it's not illegal or immoral, right, but anything else they asked you to do. It was like you know, yes, sir, how far and how high. You know yes yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 9:50

So I want to unpack something because I love the conversation Phenomenal what you're sharing right now. From my lens, it seems like there are a couple of things that are issues or concerns when it comes to leadership, and one is that we're at an all time low trust in leaders in all sectors of our society. What do we start doing to regain that? Because once you lose trust, it's hard to get just about anything done, and it seems like we've lost trust in our leaders.

Speaker 3: 10:14

Yeah Well, I've got a book, my latest book, and in fact let's see it's over my shoulder here in the video here. The book is called Trust at Work. It's a collaborative effort I did with a colleague of mine. We've been professional associates for many, many years. What we talk about there is we kind of unpack to use your word the very basic concept of how do we build trust in a relationship. And I'll try to keep it short. What we try to do when we meet somebody and let's take the dating game, for instance. You know you're a young person, you're trying to find a live partner, so you arrange a date with somebody that looks appealing and you say to yourself you go out on that date, what do you do you? You play 20 questions. You know it's. What do you think about this? What kind of food do you like? What are your favorite movies? You know where do you like to go? Where'd you go to school? You know and it's just a friendly dialogue but in fashion, somewhere buried in our psyche, we're checking boxes.

Speaker 3: 11:15

Yes, it's like okay, you know, yeah, okay, this is good, this is good. You agree to go on another date? And that's what I always told my kids when they were growing up. They get hung up on dating. So the only purpose of going out on a date is to decide if you're going to have another date Every day. Am I doing this again? Don't overcomplicate it.

Speaker 3: 11:37

But the process, the questions get a little deeper, a little more significant, a little more gravity to them. And then, finally, when the day comes, when you say to yourself this could be my person. You know, all the boxes are checked, all of the things. We've got good alignment. I think we can work well together and not say you're exactly thinking the same, but the different thought they might have is a good compliment to what you know you need. So you say, yeah, let's do this. Well, guess what?

Speaker 3: 12:05

If you're an employer, the same thing is happening with your people. They show up at work, they got questions and if you can't or won't answer those questions, you're never going to have trust. And the more you can do to build an environment where you entertain the question, you know, ask me whatever you want. You may not like the answer I give you, but I will give you an answer and we'll be able to work through this. So in the book we actually introduced something called the trust model and for business people it is a pattern of six segments of where all the questions you're ever going to be asked are going to land One way or another. Everything an employee can ask you is only going to fall into six buckets and answer and build on that set of questions, the more you're going to have an environment of trust where people will come together and be excited about working for you and with you.

Speaker 2: 13:17

That's phenomenal. Because this is a big topic, I want to unpack a little more here. You hear a lot of organizations say we can't trust our employees, but employees don't feel they can trust the organization. What are some characteristics to determine if we're trustworthy? Because everybody says I want to be able to trust my team or I want people to trust me. I begin to say well, what makes you trustworthy?

Speaker 3: 13:39

Well, I think it goes back to the model I alluded to, and let me, if I may, just run through the six areas real quick to give you the roadmap and the idea. The very first set of questions is what we call the people questions Somebody's new to your organization. They show up and you would think their answer is yes, I want to be here. They accepted the job right. Okay, that's probably true. But as soon as they start meeting folks, getting to know the real story of how the organization operates, they may be asking the question do I even want to work here? Yes, and there's just some really fundamental basics that they are exposed to that make them feel like no, this probably really is not a fit for me after all. So that's a very fundamental almost on. If you're talking maslow's hierarchy, it's that very baseline level. I'm not sure I'm safe here, I'm not sure I'm wanted here. You know all of those. Well then, if you can get past that, you move into the question of purpose why do we exist? What are we supposed to be doing here? And give me the big picture story. Why does this team exist? Why is this company here? Let me understand that purpose and let me ask all the questions about the purpose. Then, if you mature past that, you go to the plan. Okay, I get the purpose, now what's the plan? How are we going to go do it? And some companies are not good at planning. They have a great statement of mission, vision and purpose and it's easy for everybody to get really excited. But when you go to work you realize they don't seem to have a plan. There are no process, there's no procedures. This not work.

Speaker 3: 15:26

And then number four is the practice. And that's actually going out doing the work. That's boots on the ground, getting the work done. And you might have a great purpose and a great plan, but immediately you realize there's a resource problem here. We don't have the right computer, we don't have the right materials, there's a lot of roadblocks that aren't going to get us there. So the practice is not good.

Speaker 3: 15:50

And if you can get through that, you move on to the notion of performance. And that's the question of okay, if I commit, I work hard, am I going to be judged fairly? Am I going to be recognized for my work? Am I going to be acknowledged and do I get an opportunity to advance, et cetera. And then, final section, number six is what I like to call the payoff, and payoff is not about the paycheck, although that's a small element of it, but it's more that sense of pride and esprit de corps or team morale. You know, I love being a member here, I'm glad I contribute to this team and the payoff's an important part because you put in all the hard work for the other five you got to have the payoff factor.

Speaker 3: 16:40

And on that note I tell a quick story the bank I went to work for after the Army. We were a very well-run bank and we ran off 64 consecutive quarters of earnings growth. That's 16 years of earnings climb. We went through two major economic cycles, bad cycles, oil boom, a bus or real estate bus but yet we kept growing our earnings. Well, after six or eight of those result cycles, the pride in being part of that organization started to grow. It started to take root and all of a sudden it was like, hey, we got something here. Maybe let's don't be the one to break the chain here, but there was a positive pride to it. Now there was pressure, for sure, people worked very hard there, but they liked it. The payoff that we were getting from it, just the pride of being.

Speaker 2: 17:38

You know, when we went to banking conferences and we had our lapel pin on, it meant something I want to unpack something you said, because in organizations, when you build something that people are very prideful of, they're happy to be a part of it, there's pressure that comes with that. Oh yeah, how do you help your team stay grounded and and not become self-destructive, because there's a lot of pressure. When you get that good, there's a lot of pressure associated with it. What can leaders do to make sure they keep their team calm, collective, even though there's a high level of excellence expected across the board? How does a leader continue to operate in that environment and keep their people not walking on eggshells?

Speaker 3: 18:16

A lot of it was back to the basics of keeping your eye on the ball, and you and I are old enough. We know the stories of Vince Lombardi, you know his whole famous locker room. So, the guys, this is a football, you know. Let's don't forget what we're doing here. And we did a lot of revisiting very core fundamentals just to be sure nobody got out ahead of themselves and it was the fundamentals that gave us the success, and we knew that and we basically doubled down on the fundamentals rather than getting real exotic or real creative in the way we were going to go tackle the market.

Speaker 2: 18:57

Yes, leaders, listening to get back to the fundamentals, because that's what helps you win consistently. You know the game of football. They always say get back to the fundamentals. Blocking, tackling, running plays, holding your position. It's not that extravagant. I mean, you got that many teams in the league, but it's still the team that can stick with the fundamentals and get less penalties, which means violate policy and procedure. They end up winning bigger games. What you're beginning to see is the audio not matching the video for leaders. They'll say one thing here but do something different. How destructive is that for organizations or for leaders to say one thing? Back in the day, my parents they do as I say, not as I do. I heard that growing up. That was the language that was used and it kind of was embraced. It was okay to say it as a parent, not today embrace.

Speaker 3: 19:44

It was okay to say it as a parent, not today. It's a total destruction of any trust and any willingness to follow. Because, for one thing, one of the phenomenon we experienced coming out of the pandemic is, you know, we had the so-called great resignation, and by all studies that was because people literally dealt with their mortality during COVID. Nobody knew if we were going to survive this thing, or some went so far as to say it could be the end of the planet. I mean, it was the real thing that everybody had to deal with. And when you face that challenge, you change your thinking, you change your priorities and many people got really centered on what it means to be a member of a family, and if you're a parent, you had kids. You rethink all of that and people were more willing to show up to work and reduce the level of suffering they were willing to endure at the hands of a bad boss. And they voted with their feet. They said you know you're going to keep doing this. I'm out the door, I know there'll be something better I can do, and if there's not, I'm still alive. I still I'm breathing. I'll figure it out.

Speaker 3: 20:58

Prior to the pandemic we really didn't have that. I mean there were a few people that were bold and willing that way, but in general the workforce was still fairly compliant, yes, well, now not so much. So it really puts pressure on company and business leadership and any organizational leadership. I know of churches that are suffering because the leadership has not changed their approach and people are voting with their feet. They're saying I used to tolerate this, I'm not going to tolerate it anymore, I'm gone. So it really is on the leader to walk the talk. If you make a statement of value and principle that you want to live by, you absolutely cannot walk out the door and go violate that in the next move you make.

Speaker 2: 21:48

Yeah, it is amazing. It's something that came to mind as you were sharing Doug about people tolerating things. Have you seen across the board where, if people don't feel appreciated, they're just not tolerating what they're used to?

Speaker 3: 22:00

Right, right, yeah, there's a whole lot that's been written about the notion of emotional intelligence among leaders, but I think it's also among the workforce. You know, people's sensitivity and attitude about things has definitely shifted and a lot of it has to do with that fundamental hey boss, if you can't recognize me as a fellow human being, we don't have a future.

Speaker 2: 22:29

Yes, that is so solid and when you're talking and everybody is listening, people want to be seen as a human being and equal, regardless of position or title. They want you to say I see you as an equal, I see you as a human being, equal to and I know we got different roles and responsibilities, but see me as a human being first, and I already looked up your book. It's on Amazon For those of you that are looking. Trust at Work is something that I did, the research, as Doug is sharing. What do you share with that leader with five generations in the workforce? The great divide across the entire world today. There's a great division for everybody churches, schools, communities, families, sports, athletics, whatever you want to name it. There's a divide somewhere, in every industry, every space of our society. What do you tell the leader that doesn't want to change and says I'm just going to do it my way, and those people do exist.

Speaker 3: 23:17

Yeah, well, two things on that One, when I get asked about how to manage the generational difference, I'm a contrary and I don't go off in these programs and say, oh, let's study each group separately and let's learn all the attributes and let's balance all that out. I'm not arguing that it couldn't be good work, but I'm an old school guy and I'm back to what I said a moment ago these people are human, it's just that you know they've made a few more trips around the sun and you have to meet them where they are if you're the leader. And I point to, there's a text that I often share with my clients and when you read it, it looks like the millennial manifesto. Yes, and what it's basically saying is everybody above me is an idiot, I don't respect what they think, say, or do? I know what I need to do and I'm well-educated, I'm smart, I can figure this out and I don't need to pay much attention. Well, guess what? That text was written by Henry David Thoreau in 1863. Wow.

Speaker 2: 24:29

I got to write that down. Who was that again?

Speaker 3: 24:31

Henry David Thoreau. It's the preface to his famous book Walden Pond.

Speaker 2: 24:37

In 1863?

Speaker 3: 24:38

1863, he wrote that text.

Speaker 2: 24:41

What in the world?

Speaker 3: 24:44

And the first time I read it, I did just that. 1863, he wrote that text what in the world? And the first time I read it, I did just that. I said this sounds like the current day millennial manifesto. You know, this is what we think about the world and that's what all the studies tell us millennials think. Well, my point is guess what. Every generation has thought some version of that.

Speaker 2: 25:00

Yes.

Speaker 3: 25:01

It's the human existence. It's the human existence, it's the human process. So if you're a leader in a workplace that has the multi-generation number one, you got to start with giving trust and showing respect. Wow, and let people do what they're going to do to either continue the positive side of that or, for whatever reason, demonstrate that they're not worthy of that respect and that trust.

Speaker 2: 25:35

And that's a different discussion. Well, as I'm listening, doug, I tell you this is going to be good because I mean I'm like, okay, he has a lot. And so you can tell we're both into the leadership space, the giving trust and showing respect. And in uniform, someone told me a long time ago and I got my first leadership position done they said, hey, welcome to leadership. You're going to give away trust and you're going to earn every ounce of it that they give you. So you have to trust your team. They'll decide if they trust you later.

Speaker 3: 25:59

I'm like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 2: 26:01

This is insane. I struggled with that initial. I'm like, well, if I got to trust them now to give it back to me, say nope, you're going to earn it and I need you to understand that. And I think leaders struggle with the fact that you trust your team but you're going to have to walk the talk, display, show up every single day, and then they'll slowly feed you like the level of trust that you'll need to be able to lead them. I struggled with that initially. How do you help leaders that don't get that concept of give trust, show respect?

Speaker 3: 26:25

Well, I'll tell a quick Army story. So as a young lieutenant I got stationed on my first home base and I was the executive officer of a big training company. We had about 450 troops in our command. But one of the quick duties I got assigned I was supposed to be the mess officer. I had the dining hall report to me. Well, coincidentally there was a rotation and a whole new mess sergeant was getting assigned and so he showed up for duty and I had his file and this was a master sergeant with close to 30 years of service already. He had been through two rotations in Vietnam and all kinds of other things, and in his file he had won every award that was given to army mess sergeants. He had always done a great job, top of ranking of everything.

Speaker 3: 27:17

Well, he came in to report to me and he had a scowl on his face, he had a sour attitude toward me and I tried to just do a basic onboarding discussion, you know, meet and greet and everything. And finally I said I'll never forget his name, leonard Culliver was his name, turned out a great guy and I'll get to that. But I said, sergeant Culliver, since we got an attitude here, what's going on? Tell me what's up. And he said well, sir, I don't like officers in my mess hall. I said, okay. I said, well, I'll tell you what. We're going to make a deal. I said by regulation. And obviously, looking at your file, you know the regs. You've won all the awards, but by regulation I have to sign your requisitions all the awards. But by regulation, I have to sign your requisitions. So here's my proposal you get your paperwork ready, you call me, I will come in your mess hall. I'm going to sign the paperwork, but I promise you I'll turn around and walk out. And he got this big smile on his face and stood up and stuck out his hand to shake you know, not a salute, which I didn't make issue of. I shook his hand and I said we got a deal.

Speaker 3: 28:25

So very next morning, phone rang hey, lieutenant got my paperwork. You want to come over? Yes, I'll be right there. So I walk over there. Paperwork is all laid out. I signed it, not many words. I just turned around, walked off. Next day phone rings hey, lt got my paperwork. You want to come over? Yeah, I'll be right there. So sign the paperwork, walked out. Third day, same drill get the phone call Now, when I walk in there, the paperwork's all laid out, but in front of it is all these pastries and these flavored coffees.

Speaker 3: 28:55

And I'm thinking to myself, okay. And so I sat down, I reviewed the paper. I didn't touch anything other than the paperwork, did my job, signed the paperwork, got up to leave and he goes, lieutenant, where are you going? I said, sergeant Culver, you don't like officers in your mess hall. And he got again this big grin. He said oh, sit down, try some of these pastries I'm thinking about. I'm doing something here. I want to get your opinion. What do you think about this? And I was there probably about 45 minutes that morning. And then, in time, you know, we got to be good friends and more and more you know. And all of a sudden it was like I'm welcome anytime. And about two years later he got transferred to another unit and there was an event in his facility and I walked in as a guest and he yells to the whole crew that was working for him. He said there's my favorite Lieutenant, he's the best guy I've ever worked for, wow.

Speaker 2: 29:56

Wow.

Speaker 3: 29:57

Yes.

Speaker 2: 29:59

Thank you for the story.

Speaker 3: 30:00

That's earned Doug because, at the end of the day, how do you get past your ego or your pride, or even when it's not done right, that you're willing to make a a lieutenant in command over his facility? I could have said BS to that sergeant I'm going to be there whenever I want to be there. Yes, you know, and I've known leaders that would have taken that approach. But I knew that if I gave him the respect he was due cause he was good and he had earned every one of those awards I just had to show him that respect and I was banking on the idea that he would warm up to me being able to be in the command position I was supposed to be in.

Speaker 2: 30:53

Yes, yes.

Speaker 3: 30:54

I mean I love it.

Speaker 2: 30:54

Thank you for the conversation and I hear an acronym with leaders all the time. If you're really going to you know, think that contributes to me being successful all the time. If you're really going to you know thing that contributes to me being successful, they'll use the acronym for people called PEP. Don't let your pride get in the way. Check your ego and there's more than one perspective.

Speaker 3: 31:11

That's right.

Speaker 2: 31:12

Because pride does get in the way. If you work hard and you think you deserve something, you think you're entitled. It's easy for that to surface really fast and it begins for you not to meet people where they are because you think they owe you something. And then you let your ego get in the way and then you don't want to see things from. So you saw it from a different lens. You say, okay, I get it, I see it.

Speaker 2: 31:29

This guy's well decorated, has done a great job. How do I become an effective leader with him, for him, and what's that journey like? So, if you're listening to this, don't ever allow yourself to get in a position to feel like you can't close the gap. Always be willing to compromise, which is what I'll close with. How do you help across all sectors? You're probably seeing as well as I see it, doug, people have become very, very against or not effective at compromise. It's almost just like it don't exist anymore. Like you and I can't sit to the table and figure out. How do we like leaders like us? I don't look at the higher levels in leadership to help us fix the problems that we have now. How do you and I come to the table and be a good model to show people how to compromise.

Speaker 3: 32:11

Well, I agree. I think we as a society, we've generally lost that art. You're either totally right or totally wrong on whatever the topic may be, and I always try to encourage people to think about the picture of two islands and there's a bridge. Yes, and to your point of the compromise, I think the leader's journey is to make it clear you're willing to walk out to the middle of the bridge, yes, and you're inviting them to come their way from their island to the middle of the bridge, and that's where you get things done is, right there, in that middle. And I had a mentor boss in my early banking days who taught me the phrase the truth is in the middle. Yes, we all get spun up about what we think our truth is, and we go out in the world. We run into other people that have their own version of truth. Well, guess what? The real truth of the matter is in the middle, somewhere.

Speaker 2: 33:07

Yes, and most of us don't want to go to the middle. We want to stay in our little territory, our space, our zip code, our community, and expect to fix the world, and that's just not the way it works. So, doug, phenomenal conversation. As you said, trust at Work. The book is out there. It's on Amazon. Feel free to go out there and support what Doug is doing. Him and a colleague of his, or I, have the book out there. What would you leave all of our listeners and viewers with? What are three things that if you were to give them three nuggets to say, hey, if you can employ these three things or try one of these three things, what would you leave?

Speaker 3: 33:36

us with. I think probably the first, and then very important for anyone who finds himself being in a role of leadership, responsibility or even aspiring to do that get a lock on your own definition of the leader you want to be. There's thousands and thousands of books about leadership that have great lists and frameworks and ideas to think about, but you got to grab your own, you got to define your own framework. And to be a leader, you need to be grounded in whatever that sense of principle and purpose is, so that you have a foundation. And when you have that foundation, number two is think about responding, not reacting.

Speaker 3: 34:24

When the world comes at you, you can either respond or react. That's your choice. And I use the analogy there when you go to the doctor and they give you medicine, if you react to that medicine, you're getting sicker, you got more problems, but if you respond to it, you're on your way to health again. And same thing is true with our roles as leaders. We need to really focus and work hard on being able to respond, not react. But you can only respond if you know where you're coming from. Yes, if you've got that launchpad, that foundation of principle and belief. And then, third, I guess what I would say is what we've talked about here is be willing to meet people where they are and you can have an opportunity to explain the mission and vision you think you're on. But the only way you're going to get people to pay attention is to convince them that you're willing to recognize them as a fellow human being. Yes, Awesome.

Speaker 2: 35:27

We spoke about the one book Trust at Work. Is there anything that you want to share for people that are interested in what you do? Can you promote your business and your organization?

Speaker 3: 35:36

The fastest, easiest way to get ahold of me is on my website, and it is simply dougthorpecom. That's T-H-O-R-P-E. Hop over there. There's links. I do offer a free consultation If you just want to talk about your situation, where you're going, what you want to do, and we'll explore whether or not I can help you. And if I can, I probably, with all of my years of experience. I have a resource or someone who would be able to help and I'm happy to share that if you give me a call. I'm all over social media and I did mention my own podcast, leadership Powered by Common Sense. It's on all the streaming channels, as well as a video version on YouTube.

Speaker 2: 36:19

Yes, thank you. So Leadership Powered by Common Sense. If you're listening and you want to reach out to Doug, he's giving you all of the ways to reach out. Please support him in his book and what he's doing. So when you think of your potential client or someone that may need your services, are there some things that they may be experiencing that says they ought to pick up the phone and call you If I mean that because I know you're at executive level, you're doing coaching in that space what are some things that I may be experiencing as an executive leader that says, hey, I may need to have a conversation with you?

Speaker 3: 36:45

Well, my classic client is inevitably somebody that has maybe been promoted up to a new role and they're feeling a little bit out of bounds or out of their comfort zone, or the person who has been at it for a long time and they know and believe there's more, but they just feel kind of stuck. They think they've tried a number of things and they can't seem to move the team or the organization to another level. Those are the two primary areas where I think I can provide the most help.

Speaker 2: 37:17

Absolutely. Thank you, doug. And so if you're listening and you're in that position and you've gotten promoted, everybody I will tell you, for a coach is if you really want to see instant results and quick results, coaching is the one mechanism I know that deals individuals results really really fast. So I will tell you to reach out to. So thank you, doug. So much for the insight. Thank you for the information. Thank you for sharing all the stuff you shared with us and look forward to, at some point, being able to invite you back over time to be able to continue the conversation or even come on your podcast For everyone that's listening.

Speaker 2: 37:45

Again, this is Ron Harvey, vice President, global Course Strategies and Consulting, super excited about the work that we get to do to help add value and make a difference in organizations at all levels. We love it. It's what our passion is and we feel like it's what our purpose is as well. So well. So, as you listen to this podcast we release every Monday, and feel free to reach out to Doug or I about anything that you're trying to do on your journey. Don't do it by yourself. Bring someone along to help you figure out how to be as effective as you can. We're counting on you. If you're in a leadership role, we need you more now than ever to be an effective leader. Let someone help you become that person. Again, ron Harvey, doug and I are going to sign off and we hope that you share this and you come join us on the podcast, or you join on Doug's podcast as well. So thank you for that.

Speaker 1: 38:28

Well, we hope you enjoyed this edition of Unpacked Podcast with leadership consultant Ron Harvey. Remember to join us every Monday as Ron unpacks sound advice, providing real answers for real leadership challenges. Until next time, remember to add value and make a difference where you are, for the people you serve, because people always matter.