Ep. 28: Tell a Better Story with Laura Lewis-Barr

Leadership is about bringing people into a compelling story. And to do that well, we have to know how to tell a compelling story! That's where Laura Lewis-Barr comes in. In this episode, Laura teaches us

• What exactly makes a compelling story
• How to craft a good story
• How to deliver a good story
• Why story matters

Laura Lewis-Barr has been exploring authenticity and storytelling on theatre stages and corporate boardrooms for 20 years. She offers popular public speaking seminars and specializes in helping executives and staff communicate their ideas with humor, vitality, and presence. An award-winning writer, Laura often coaches job seekers, executives, and managers, on how to perfect their own stories to inspire, motivate, and persuade others.  More information on her company can be found at training4breakthroughs.com

Laura has published fiction and also nonfiction including, Improving Communication at Work – 52 Tips, Techniques, and Tools to Build Emotional Intelligence – A Card Deck for Workers, Managers, and Teams.  This card deck comes from her many years of coaching adults in emotional intelligence and the practical uses of positive psychology. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N28DOJS

Laura continues to coach leaders and job seekers to use storytelling in to advance in their careers.  She has a special interest in helping women be heard.  She also studies storytelling in her work as a stop motion filmmaker.  Laura’s award-winning films have screened in festivals around the world. 

You can find her films here: https://lauralewisbarrfilms.com/
Follow her on Linked In here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurallb/

Transcript

Ep. 28 Laura Lewis-Barr

Kyla Cofer: [00:00:00] Welcome to the leadership school podcast. I'm your host leadership and self care coach Kyla Cofer here at the leadership school. You'll hear leaders from around the world, sharing their stories and expertise on how to lead with balance and integrity. Our goal teach you how to be an extraordinary leader.

Laura is a master storyteller. And she brings us into the craft of storytelling. She's trained people, uh, into telling great stories. So how does this matter to leaders? Because as leaders, what we're doing is we're bringing people into a story and the better we are at telling that story, well, the more we can get people on board.

So I'm not going to get into it too much here in an introduction. I'm going to let the conversation do that, but it's a real. Powerful thing to be able to tell a great story. And Laura's going to walk us through [00:01:00] the house of what that looks like, how to do it, how to be a better storyteller in your leadership.

Thanks Laura, for joining me. Well, Laura, thank you so much for joining me today. I have been, so looking forward to our conversation, I'm really grateful and honored that you're here with me here at the leadership 

Laura Lewis-Barr: school. I'm very excited to. 

Kyla Cofer: Awesome. Well, let's dive right in. And why don't you tell us a little bit about you and then we'll go straight into some 

Laura Lewis-Barr: awesome questions.

Ooh, yay. Ah, I am a woman steeped in story and I spent. Maybe half of my time in nonfiction storytelling and helping other people tell their stories. And I spend the other half doing fiction right now, I make films. And I guess the other piece of me is that I've been an instructor most of my life. And I taught [00:02:00] college and then went into corporate training.

And one year when I was teaching, I had two students. One of them joined the army after my class, and one of them went to walk on hot coals. Because they loved the rigor and I love the rigor of studying story and all things related. So that's a 

Kyla Cofer: little bit and learning about themselves that much and telling their story, led them to making these kind of taking these big action steps.

Laura Lewis-Barr: They really wanted to challenge themselves more. They felt really challenged and that little. 22nd story. I just told you is an example of the briefest kind of story. I try to help other people tell about themselves, that kind of a brand story. That's my brand. I, I love rigor and I love stories. [00:03:00] Yeah. 

Kyla Cofer: So we are going to talk all things storytelling today.

And I can't wait because this is so important to leadership. So we will get into why that is as well. But at first I would love to hear what got you interested in storytelling. What brought you 

Laura Lewis-Barr: here? Oh, man. I remember being 13 years old and doing sleepovers with my friends and we would spend the evening into, you know, 1, 2, 3 in the morning, whatever it was.

And we would do little skits for each other. I remember being 10 years old and doing little skits in my yard, I guess I was always destined. I just always loved the performing arts and telling stories. And so I ended up getting my bachelor's and my master's in theater and writing and directing and just, it's always been.

Central to who I am. 

Kyla Cofer: Awesome. So storytelling is just a part of you, and it goes back to that [00:04:00] emotional connection that you were making with your friends through creating skits, and then you just kind of blossomed it from there and grew into something really, really cool. Where now you're teaching us how to do about it.

It's a fun story. So let's get right into what makes storytelling important to leadership. 

Laura Lewis-Barr: So I was in the theater and I ended up morphing into corporate training. And when I left teaching college and started teaching professionals, I was studying both emotional intelligence and storytelling. And what I learned is that when the brain here's a story, The whole brain lights up, as opposed to, if I do a PowerPoint and I'm giving you a lot of data, the verbal centers of your brain light up one piece.

We know, intuitively if you listen to a lawyer making an argument or the president making a state of the [00:05:00] union, they tell stories. So we know that stories land in the brain differently and they build empathy, especially if they're well told and well told stories involve. The obstacle of the hero and we are the heroes in our own stories.

So sharing that obstacle brings other people closer to us because they have those obstacles to, 

Kyla Cofer: yes. I just heard two things from you. I heard that there's actually a psychology to storytelling and that there is a method to telling a good story that connects well, can you talk about both of 

Laura Lewis-Barr: those pieces a little bit?

Well, let's start with a method. Storytelling is an art and that's one of the reasons I love it. I'll never, ever finish learning. And when I go to the theater or watch a film, I'm always [00:06:00] analyzing for our in-person storytelling. What we want to make sure is to emphasize the struggle. Like when we go to the theater or watch a movie or read a novel.

We're not reading how everything goes well, reading or feeling the struggle. So we have to learn to share the struggle, even in a brief way. And then. Uh, sort of a, why are we telling the story? What's the purpose and give the listener that, that backstory piece, like the contacts we often don't need a whole lot, and that's where people go wrong with storytelling.

They give you all sorts of backstory and then we lose them. When we do that. And the other thing we do wrong often with storytelling is we don't focus on a particular event. We're trying to talk about in general and our [00:07:00] brains don't work that way. Our brains work with specific events. So when I was 13 and I was with my best friend, also named Laura and we were in her basement, that's the beginning of a story, a specific.

Kyla Cofer: Kind of having a purpose to why I'm telling the story so that I can get clear on some crucial specifics, but we don't have to tell all the elements of the story, but telling the ones that matter to drive the story 

Laura Lewis-Barr: forward. Exactly. Well, Wells. Yeah. 

Kyla Cofer: Awesome. I heard you say storytelling is art. Then I got distracted because I started thinking about how I heard that there are things such as storytelling festivals, where people tell stories and I didn't even know this was a thing.

So this is really cool to me. And I've learned about this whole new world of storytelling, but also how important it is to be able to tell a story well, to get your point across, because if you are adding all of those other elements, [00:08:00] Then your audience is going to lose their attention and not understand what you're really trying to say.

Laura Lewis-Barr: Yes. And story is the water we swim in. So once we start thinking about story, we realize that when I was having dinner with my husband tonight, I was telling him a story that I heard today from a friend. Yeah. I guess what I'm trying to say is these little things that can happen while I'm hiking with my friend in the woods today, Cynthia and I were in the woods today.

There might be a little event that happens. And that's my story. Like they don't have to be these big monumental things that happen. They're the everyday things that teach and motivate and connect us with others. 

Kyla Cofer: Yeah. And so I can see why this is important for leaders as you're trying to bring people along with you, that if you bring them with you with a story they're more likely to [00:09:00] follow because they're more interested in it, more engaged.

They want to be part of that story. That you're telling 

Laura Lewis-Barr: beautifully set again. And I often tell students in my classes that stories are a way to hack into somebody else's brain. There's researchers out of Princeton that are studying story, and they recognize that our brains start to sync together and we're lighting up different portions of our brains.

So a well-told story really hacks in and it's the most persuasive thing we can do. 

Kyla Cofer: And I've known this for some time. And so I've even like read books on storytelling because I have wanting to practice being a better storyteller because I started noticing for myself that if I was at a lecture or speech, or even, you know, it used to be very religious.

And so I'd go to sermons. I wouldn't remember anything except for maybe the one story that someone would tell. And that is what sticks with you. And so. As I'm learning to be a better story teller. What [00:10:00] tips might you have for me in, do you have a formula for telling a good story? I mean, what makes you said the struggle and just finding those one little piece of content, but what are the tips that you have for crafting those good stories that get the message across?

Laura Lewis-Barr: Yeah, really, really well said. And I just want to add on that our brains evolved with stories. So that might be one reason why they really are the thing that sticks as opposed to every other kind of communication. Jesus taught in the stories. I mean, Buddha probably didn't do. Yeah. So one thing is we need to practice our stories, which maybe feels strange because there are stories.

So why should we have to practice them? But we do. And as we practice and it has to be out loud. Because there 

Kyla Cofer: is not a brain. You tell the story in your head of you're like, oh, I'm such a good storyteller. And then you say it out loud. And you're [00:11:00] like, 

Laura Lewis-Barr: I don't understand the psychology of that. But back in the day I worked in a library and I used to walk the stacks where no one was around and talk to myself.

It felt like a safe place or maybe a shower or a car someplace where were uninhibited outlet. And then as we find people in the business, storytelling business might talk about the arc of the story and. They used to say to me as a writer, you want a beginning, a middle and an end that doesn't help a whole lot, but it is what we have.

And so, you know, I'm practicing a brief beginning. I'm diving in to help the listener be there with me during the struggle. So I want to find those details and practice them and then find that ending. [00:12:00] And ideally we have someone we can tell the story to because sometimes it's hard to know. How many more details I might need to make something understandable or when I've gone too far and they got it.

So I think practice is super, super key, knowing why we're telling the story and focusing on the obstacle. Those are all 

Kyla Cofer: obstacles and struggles. Is there like a rule, should we tell an insert the obstacle and the struggle at the beginning at halfway point? Or do you wait? I mean, how do we bring up that piece of the story?

Laura Lewis-Barr: Yeah. So I actually have a little diagram that we can describe. Well, I will describe it. It's four squares and the upper left square is the beginning. So when I was 18, [00:13:00] I was studying voice. That's the context of the story. Okay. And then the second square, the upper right square. What starts the actual event.

So that was the context. Um, my voice teacher asked me if I wanted to sing at a club, I was so excited. I practiced and practiced and invited all my family and friends in Chicago to come to the club I got in front. Uh, they all came, we were starting, my voice teacher started play the piano and I opened my mouth to sing.

Gorgeous tone came out. I was listening to myself and so thrilled, and then we got to the chorus and I couldn't remember a word. And I just stood there with my mouth hanging open and my voice teacher just kept playing [00:14:00] the same chords vamping over and over waiting for me. And it wasn't gonna happen. And I didn't know what to do.

I was 18. So he made a joke. We started over and of course we came to that exact same place and I couldn't get, my brain was now locked. So he sang the lyrics and I got through it and was, I think, traumatized for a very long time. And any kind of public speaking for me was. Excruciating hard and felt impossible, which is of course ironic because now I teach public speaking.

So that is the example I got to the obstacle. And then I kind of gave you what the story was about. So I think the main event is the obstacle, but I didn't even spend that much time with it. And the obstacle can be just internal. How we talk to [00:15:00] ourselves, the struggles we have in. A lot of times it is, isn't it.

And that's what we relate to. 

Kyla Cofer: Yeah, absolutely. I can definitely relate to that. So finding a way to give the context you had your four squares, you said the context then 

Laura Lewis-Barr: how the story begins. Writers. Talk about it. Inciting incident. So how the story begins, the obstacle and then the lower right is the resolution.

And we don't have to. You know, some stories are very complicated and we can just skip forward in time and give a resolution that happened years later. That's fine. 

Kyla Cofer: When is it valuable to lengthen a story? Because I see the value in making a story short and sweet, right? Making sure you get right to the point you're clear, but I imagine that there are times when it's valuable to give more details.

Laura Lewis-Barr: Yeah, that's a really great question. [00:16:00] Something fast while I'm thinking about it. It's one thing that I've noticed is before the pandemic, I was teaching corporate training classes and emotional intelligence, public speaking. And I would tell stories not usually very long, but then I started teaching online and online.

I've noticed that storytelling is much, much, much, much, much harder. And I also know from experience that my clients online, if I'm teaching a group, when I start to tell a story or when I used to, they would go check their email. I could tell on WebEx that they were doing something else. Ah, so I just want to make sure people know that storytelling live seems to be different, a different animal than storytelling online is what I've learned.

So I think longer stories have to be where people are there [00:17:00] for story. Right? So storytelling events, or a course, somebody is telling a story that could last a half an hour or longer. What I know about workplaces, and this is what I'm trying to help people understand is that story is their best way to connect.

But most people in the workplace go, we don't have time for story. They see it as a waste of time. And so I think. Short is what we need in business, but entertainment is all about that embellishment. So when we're in a space where people want to be entertained. Yeah, for sure. Okay. That 

Kyla Cofer: makes sense. You mentioned in business and I'm thinking like, as a leader, if I'm a corporate leader or, I mean a nonprofit leader, or just leading my family or whatever stories, how do they bring us together in stories and how do they help us drive [00:18:00] forward of our mission and our values of who we're wanting to be and help us to accomplish our goals.

Laura Lewis-Barr: That's a great question. And I've taught storytelling to different groups. And I remember one time when we were talking about this question, I recognized that we want to tell clients stories, especially when we're nonprofits and nonprofits sometimes are really good at this, where we help the people that we're trying to reach, understand our mission, not in an abstract way, but by telling the story of the people that we serve.

And not just what goes well, but the struggle again is generally what's going to pull us in. So there are lots of different types of stories. I know when I work with companies and they say there are no stories, we just have data points about what we're selling. Well, how about a story about how. [00:19:00] You created what you're selling, the problem that you solved, that you engaged in solving this problem and you created this great product.

So there's always story, always. It just, again, it's the water we swim in. We don't see it. Yeah. 

Kyla Cofer: How do we find it? So thinking about, you know, your organization, or, I mean, most of the listeners here at the podcast are individuals who are thinking about their own personal leadership. How do you find that? If, if someone's thinking right now, yeah.

Those stories are really great, but I don't have a story or you and I could say, well, that's not true. And I can even say that by myself, but that's not true, but okay. But what is my story? If I want to tell it to you? I mean, it's not just the, well, I grew up in Nebraska and now I run a podcast, you know, there's things in between.

And how do you draw that out? How do you piece it together and find it in a way that's compelling? 

Laura Lewis-Barr: Well, one thing I know from working with thousands of people over [00:20:00] the years is that storytelling gets easier. As any kind of art with practice, we'll start to see them and we'll get better and better and better at it.

I know with job seekers, the easiest thing to do is to look at the job description and find stories that way. But I think for other leaders, maybe one suggestion I would have is to look at the struggles they're facing. Because I think our culture has us hide that stuff. And that's where the UCS stories are.

So. Any struggle that we're facing personally or professionally can be part of a story that connects us with other people. And when we share them, I think it makes the world a safer, better place because we're all expecting, [00:21:00] unfortunately, in our world today, the airbrushed version of our lives. And that's boring as heck actually perfection is boring.

And so. Just to veer off to a related subject of public speaking and storytelling, you know, as like this, for me, as I teach public speaking, we spend a full half day on storytelling because it's the basis. We have to make friends with imperfection. Imperfection is it's what makes us compelling. And perfection makes us morning and uptight.

And 

you 

Kyla Cofer: don't have an opinion about this at all. 

Laura Lewis-Barr: If I had a nickel for every person, especially women, but every person who. We're struggling with speech anxiety, which was related to being a perfectionist. I would not have to work anymore. It's just an epidemic. And once I help people [00:22:00] remember that perfection is not the goal.

They're all this energy that's been kind of held captive, comes out and they are dynamic and powerful and amazing. 

Kyla Cofer: Wow. Yeah. There's some vulnerability that comes with that. Having to be vulnerable and willing, you know, thinking about, for example, today, if we want to be telling about messy things and obstacles today, I finally.

A basket of laundry that I have been trying to fold for three days, three days, this pile of clean laundry, it's been sitting wrinkling in my laundry basket and I haven't folded half of it yesterday. And didn't finish because I didn't want to do it. So finding ways to tell that as a story and relating to people, something, even as simple as a basket of laundry, people can relate to that.

Everybody has laundry and we all have to get it done somehow, but we might not want to admit that it took us three days or more [00:23:00] to fold a whole basket of laundry. So I'm seeing how the value and even just the little things of weaving that into a story. 

Laura Lewis-Barr: Well, as you were telling it, I felt very compelled and I could relate and I love that connection with oh, yes, I'm there too.

So yeah, you told that beautifully. So then the question is what, what is the story about, you know, is the story about. Procrastination, or as there are many things the story could be about, and you can use that story in multiple ways. And maybe you would add a piece to it about your kids or about your podcast work, or I don't know.

That's the. 

Kyla Cofer: Yeah. Yes. So for me, I would add into, I focus in wellbeing and I talk about wellbeing, life balance self-care. So when I wasn't folding laundry, I was doing the resting that needs to do. Or when I wasn't folding the laundry, [00:24:00] I was spending the time with my kids, or there were other things that were happening.

It wasn't all about getting the laundry done. 

Laura Lewis-Barr: That is beautiful. That is beautiful. I know when I am teaching my house is a chaotic mess because my focus is on getting that lesson totally planned. So yeah, what is our priority, you know, and that could be, and you could do a whole Ted talk or other kind of presentation on what is our priority in our lives.

How does that show up? You're giving me ideas. 

Kyla Cofer: Hey, I'm really grateful that you're listening to the leadership school podcast. Since you've listened this far in, it tells me that you're really enjoying it. It would mean the world to me. If you could think of one person right now who might really benefit from this content, take a second and share the podcast with them.

Let's spread the word and grow leaders with integrity and balance. Yeah, well, and I'm thinking, I mean, how do we [00:25:00] really craft that good story about ourselves? You know, the story that we want people to hear it in. Like I'm hearing you say that really does incorporate vulnerability to not try and tell people the story of my perfect life, but to tell the people, the struggles and fill in the, how the struggles led me through or how I got through them.

The hero in there, you mentioned the hero's journey. What is the hero? 

Laura Lewis-Barr: Yeah. So Joseph Campbell, the mythologist years ago with studying all the mythology of the world and he noticed there was this pattern that would always emerge that had to do with the hero of the story struggling sometimes. You know, there's death and resurrection stories, or just struggle and everything feels lost.

And any movie, any blockbuster movie, there's always a point in the movie where the hero is like all is lost and that's the hero's [00:26:00] journey story. That is a wonderful template when you're wanting to cook into. Sort of the way our brains were. I really think these templates in our brains, you can call them archetypes.

They're really, really deep in us. So when we hear a hero's journey story about struggle, struggle, struggle, oh my God, I'm never going to make it. And then the breakthrough, there's a power in that. That is really very compelling. I think part of what's happening not to get political, but I'm watching what's happening in Ukraine.

And I see storytelling and I see why the west is so hooked into this. Some people are saying, you know, there, these things have happened before. Why? Why are we so hopeful? There's some amazing stories. That are hooking us, whether it's the [00:27:00] Lynskey's way he is, or just the whole underdog versus the big guy, the David and Goliath story is being played out.

And we're all being a pacted by it stories really go deep into us. 

Kyla Cofer: For generations before even we had written word, people were sharing. You mean the story of creation? The story of culture and history were told orally, and that's how we've passed down. So many things about who we are. We're passing down the family stories.

Crazy things that have happened in your family or how we share our family's culture, our family history. And we don't always write things down as we share these things orally, but there are differences between the oral storytelling and the written storytelling, but we have both of those in there. Yo you're plotting.

So go into that a little bit. 

Laura Lewis-Barr: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So I'm glad you brought that up. Because one group that has a really hard time with [00:28:00] storytelling are writers because writers love that turn of phrase. They love the perfect phrase. And so they get caught up in trying to memorize, which is deadly for oral storytelling.

Oral storytelling is about authenticity, vulnerability and flubbing up sometimes. But it is that. Uh, liveliness that makes it so powerful. So compelling. I taught speech for years at colleges and the students that flubbed up. We often enjoyed their presentations a lot more. Cause there was just something really real as opposed to that.

Perfect memorize things, more conversational, 

Kyla Cofer: like bringing somebody else in it with you. I always noticed this at the beginning of even just doing this podcast, that there's a different tone of conversation versus interview. If I'm reading a question versus just engaging and asking a question that there's this [00:29:00] difference in the way I'm approaching the conversation just here in this podcast, but.

Just as I am interacting with my clients, when I'm doing presentations, that there is a difference in when I'm here in the moment and I'm recalling information, but I'm bringing it in this unique way. That's relevant to the people in front of me. It brings them into it and makes it a conversation as opposed to when I'm just sharing facts and figures and people are like, yeah, yeah.

And distracted and write notes. And they don't even care because you're just reciting information. So there is that difference. 

Laura Lewis-Barr: For sure. And when people are reading a PowerPoint at work, it is the deadliest thing you can do because we aren't engaging. We're often going way too fast. The listener tunes us out.

There's so many ways we can touch each other. I remember when my husband's father died and Rick. Shy we're [00:30:00] opposites, right? I'm the extrovert. He's the introvert, but he wanted to do a eulogy. And so I coached him. We found some stories about his dad and, oh my gosh. It was amazing where he showed up with his heart and he just told these stories and then his brother-in-law who, you know, great guy and he's much more extroverted he read.

And that is what we tend to do because we don't want to make a mistake, but yeah, let's show up and speak from the heart and people don't forget. It's funny. They don't remember the 

Kyla Cofer: mistakes. They don't remember the word or whatever. Cause they're remembering the 

Laura Lewis-Barr: moment. Right. And you know, we are wired to be terrified of public speaking.

I mean, it is part of how we're wired. I think it's because a millennia ago, when you had to step in front of a group, you didn't know what was going to happen, where you going to be charged with witchcraft and stoned. I mean, what was going to happen to you? It [00:31:00] is hard, but with practice, we can get more comfortable with it and recognize that those feelings aren't really relevant anymore.

We can be in front of others. 

Kyla Cofer: What are some tips that you have for practicing your storytelling? You said thinking out loud, but 

Laura Lewis-Barr: what are some other tips that you right. Speaking out loud, hopefully for having a kind audience, person, anybody in your life who can give you a little bit of feedback? I'm not sure I would recommend videotaping.

I wouldn't recommend being in front of a mirror. I think both of those for me anyway. There's way too much. Self-consciousness that might come through. I think you want to practice all the way through. I think become comfortable with, for me, the feeling was always, I feel like an idiot. I don't know what I'm talking about.

And so there's this compulsion to want to quit practicing my [00:32:00] students at college. I could always tell where they quit. They'd be on. Great, great, great, great. And then, you know, they stopped practicing and it sort of fell apart, which for me is. Trying to hit a tennis ball and you're practicing and you miss the ball, you go, I'm not going to practice anymore.

You know, we have to deal with that uncomfortable feeling of, oh, I'm not yet sure. What I'm saying. Embracing failure a little bit. Yeah. Just struggle through it. And the kind of weird feeling of talking to oneself. But really it gets better. And this is a super power skill. If we can get good at telling stories, we can motivate, inspire and persuade people for the rest of our lives for good things for good.

I hope 

Kyla Cofer: I hope so too. Yeah, no, I that's just sounds really beautiful and exciting. Sounds so much fun. And you know, the more you practice telling a story, even if you're [00:33:00] telling it in groups of people, the more confident you are in that story and in the details of it. And you might tell it exactly the same way over and over, because you've told it so many times and it's fine.

And I just had this like glimpse of the grandpa, who's told the same story 27 times. And you're like, yeah, grandpa, we know that story. We know that story, but yet it's still funny because. He's so good at telling. 

Laura Lewis-Barr: Yeah. 

Kyla Cofer: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't micro actually never told stories. It just says picture image I have in my mind.

Yeah. Well, we've talked a little bit too about the rapport that storytelling brings. I feel like it brings on. Empathy to for us, like, you know, I have the empathy for my grandfather or your grandfather telling this story. I feel empathy for your husband. As you're just talking about him doing that eulogy.

I was even feeling it, my body of him and his nervousness about being up there, telling the story and the story wasn't even about you. So I just see how clearly it connects us 

Laura Lewis-Barr: to each other. [00:34:00] Yeah, right. And you're reminding me that we don't have to tell our own stories. We can tell other people's stories too.

Kyla Cofer: How do we do that appropriately with integrity? Because there are times when I thought that that is that person's story to tell. So I shouldn't be the one to tell it, like, for an example. And I don't mind telling this because this particular one, I will say that people I have close to me. Yeah. In recovery, recovering addicts.

And I'm cautious about that because they don't always want people to know that they're in recovery. And so I'm cautious about that's their story to tell. And I don't want to share it with the world that they're in recovery, but at times it's appropriate. Like sometimes I speak to groups of recovering addicts.

And so when I'm speaking to them, I'll say, oh, these people who are close to me and that. Build that rapport. They go, oh, you understand me a little bit. Since I personally don't have a history of addiction, so it helps bring that in, but I might not name the person just like I'm not doing right now, you know, because it's their story to tell [00:35:00] I'm going on way too long for this.

But I want to just say, what are some, maybe guidelines and rules that there might be about telling other people's story with integrity. 

Laura Lewis-Barr: Yeah, I think you've named it in terms of, if there are details or names that would be inappropriate for me to share. In general storytelling names and numbers are helpful.

So if I'm telling a story like you're describing, I might say there's a person in my world. Let's call her Jamie, and then just tell the story and really hide so that nobody could trace back and find. And I'm only going to do that if there's a really important purpose in it. Right. But I think in the workplace, this comes up a lot for me because people are afraid to tell certain stories that involve coworkers.

And I think there are ways to hide the identity of someone, but still get the gist of the story that's [00:36:00] going to really help somebody. That's the point is these stories can either be entertaining or helpful. Yeah, I do want to mention one other thing about storytelling that is very therapeutic in my world that I noticed is working with job seekers.

I have worked with a lot, especially during the pandemic, and there are so many people with Shane. Around their work history. Most of us are hard on ourselves, so really helping them to see the goodness in their stories. And I mean, honestly, I am not blowing smoke. That's not going to help anybody, but to really help them see the struggle that they were in and if they failed, what did they learn?

And so. That's a whole other area of storytelling you wanted to make sure to mention actually, I'm 

Kyla Cofer: really glad you did. And you brought that back up and we kind of touched on it a little bit ago. Like how do we bring out our own stories? And you had [00:37:00] the four squares and telling a story, but in the case that you just mentioned somebody who is looking for a new job and has some shame around their own stories, What are questions that you start asking either when you're reading your own story, you ask yourself, or if you're helping someone with their story, what questions help you draw those things out?

Like where would you start if someone says, well, I don't have a story. I don't know where to start. 

Laura Lewis-Barr: So, as I said before, that that job description can help us think about skills that we have. And then hopefully find times that we've used that skill. But one of my favorite storytelling prompts is tell me about something you learned the hard way, because that storytelling prompt, invites vulnerability.

It invites the struggle and it preps us for telling stories about failure, which we might have. It's a wonderful prompt in general. 

Kyla Cofer: I'm [00:38:00] actually almost tearing up a little bit because I started to answer it as you asked it, I'm thinking about my personal answer for that and what I've personally been struggling with the last couple of days and the conversations I've been having.

It's so funny how, once you start, like talking about something, you might talk about it with one person in one group and then go to a. Completely different group and the same exact topic comes up, you know? So I was having this with my confidence and it's a part of my story that I have been working through for a long time.

1520 years. And it was really funny because my husband said, well, you're such a confident person. And I said, what do you mean? It didn't make any sense to me. So when you said, tell me something that you learned the hard way is I'm thinking about. My own confidence and how I have struggled. And with that love for myself and belief in myself.

And I'm not going to share all of that right now because of time and all that. But I'm formulating that in my head [00:39:00] and seeing how it's made such a difference in who I am and in what I've chosen to do my chosen profession of coaching people and why. I specifically coach people on self worth and why I relate that to self care and life balance and wellbeing.

So I want you to repeat that question just because it was so powerful to me. So let's repeat it. And then 

Laura Lewis-Barr: yeah, the story of what is something we learned, what is something you learned the hard way? And if I were coaching you about this story, another question I might ask is. What memories do you have of aha moments that aha moment, when you caught yourself grasping more confidence, or you recognize your skills in a way that was a new recognition or, you know, those moments of, I highs you move toward more and more self love and [00:40:00] confidence.

Oh yeah. That's because, yeah, because I think art is not life and storytelling. Isn't life. Like you're saying you can't tell at all. So we have to find kind of the dramatic moments to share and then craft around those. And I think my advantage being a writer and being involved in fiction has helped me recognize that we can craft our stories.

We can make them well. The analogy I use is polished them like little jewels, or we can make them into a meal that people can digest. There are a lot of analogies we can use, but when we craft a story, we give somebody. Piece of cake. We don't throw an egg and flour and milk at them. We do the work and give them something they can digest.

Kyla Cofer: Yes. Oh, sorry. I was thinking, because my son today, you mentioned cake and he he's in this thing where he [00:41:00] likes to make potions and he'll just start mixing different ingredients together. And usually it's like dirt and water and something. And today he was actually using baking ingredients will then my husband comes home.

He says he wants to bake it. So then my husband's like, okay, we'll just add eggs and some more flour and all this stuff. And they ended up making a loaf of bread and my husband tasted and he went,

that was totally not related, but it made me think of it. It just really funny. 

Laura Lewis-Barr: You should. You have an endless supply of stories with your kids. 

Kyla Cofer: Kids do provide an endless supply of stories. They're are wonderful. You got to take into habit of writing them down and that's something I'm learning too, is when a moment happens, that could be a story to write it down, record it somewhere.

I have notebooks like all over the house and I can never find what I need, but so I've been trying to do it on my phone. Just writing down. These moments, and I might never return to it, but when I need a story or I'm writing something or [00:42:00] preparing a talk, then that's the place that I can go to is, is, are those lists and you've already got some stories ready to go.

You don't have to try and draw them from somewhere beautiful. Well, so we mentioned it earlier about storytelling and integrity, but what does integrity specifically mean to you when you hear the word integrity? 

Laura Lewis-Barr: I think about integrity as being whole. So my whole self, so the spiritual self, the emotional self, the intellectual self, and showing up kind of with all of it.

So that's one thing that comes up to me. I, I think when I do emotional intelligence work, I remind people that we can be human beings that were. Keeping our humanity emotions are key to that. 

Kyla Cofer: Yeah. I think that to have a storytelling, just allowing the emotions to be in the storytelling, like if there's a moment that you need to cry, [00:43:00] crying, and don't feel like you have to hide that, or if there's a moment when you get to be excited, don't try and tone it down.

Or I feel like there's probably some integrity into the, how you're telling the story, not just the story itself. 

Laura Lewis-Barr: Yeah, that honesty piece of the storytelling and not spinning things in a way, you know, there's a lot of spin in the world. And I think for me, this is also emotional intelligence work is recognizing, you know, we all kind of put on a persona, you know, that's just part of.

Life is, but being able to recognize the difference between the public persona and the inner me, and being able to be fluid about that and where we don't necessarily show everything all the time and that it's exhausting. We don't want our [00:44:00] audience to worry about us. So, you know, we might hide a little bit, but in general, that honesty is key people sense that they know.

Yeah. Awesome. Well, what about 

Kyla Cofer: balance for you? Do you have clients, you teach students, you have a home that you take care of. You have understood the laundry stories. You have that going on and you have a lot of things going on. But I think since we're talking about storytelling, again, this could be a twofold answer.

So what does it look like? Do you have balance in your leadership as a storytelling coach and instructor, but also. Maybe balance in your stories? Like, what do you balance with how many stories you tell are in don't tell or balancing the story out? So it's not just all details and no point. Yeah. 

Laura Lewis-Barr: Wow. What a rich subject.

This is. I'm just so lucky in my life. These days that I'm [00:45:00] self-employed with everything that I love. So I think for me, balance is about. Not doing one thing only, like I worked on the film today. I took a walk in the woods today. I'm going to spend some time watching top chef with Rick. That's our guilty pleasure or that show just started again.

So I think eating well, of course sleeping, but I'm sorry, again, to float back to emotional intelligence, I really do find that central is to be able to track. You know, what's working and what isn't working by, the emotions I'm feeling. So I think it's been a long struggle for me to find what works best. I used to produce theater and I was miserable and I don't produce theater anymore.

I make [00:46:00] films in my basement alone and I'm much happier. But so our emotions are a constant GPS for us. It's not always accurate. The GPS has some funky things in it. We have to figure that out, but in general, tracking the emotion and recognizing, Hey, this feels good. I'm going to keep doing this. I've been dedicated to that for many, a long, long time.

And I think I'm reaping the benefits of that now. To say yes to this and no to this or note of this person that every time I'm with them, it just feels bad boundaries. 

Yeah. 

Kyla Cofer: Uh, yeah. Well, what about storytelling? What about finding balance and rhythm in your storytelling? You know, making sure that you're not, I mean, I don't know.

I, I can think of dozens of ways that the word balance would apply to how we're telling stories. But what about you? The expert 

Laura Lewis-Barr: storyteller? Yeah, I've, I've really been training myself to try to tell brief [00:47:00] stories. So I think. That has been feeling good to me, but I'll tell you a story. I was teaching an emotional intelligence class recently.

I've had some really bad experiences on zoom. I'll be on zoom. I'm the teacher with a group and suddenly the toolbars will disappear and then I'll feel awful. Like an idiot. I'll feel like I can't make this work. So I started doing things on WebEx. And I'm more familiar with WebEx and I taught a class this past week and.

I could feel that because I was on WebEx and I had arranged things the way I liked them, that I wasn't rushing through my stories, that I was enjoying the stories and that I was trusting that this group of people that I couldn't see was enjoying my stories too. So we have to find a way to feel good [00:48:00] about them and set things up.

So we feel good about. Whether it's the number of people we're talking to, or the venue that we're in, or the number of stories of length of stories. It has to work for us. 

Kyla Cofer: Finding ways to eliminate some of those obstacles that might be hindering us. Yeah. Awesome. Well, this has just been a delightful conversation and I really have learned a lot and I feel like I kind of want to talk to you for another seven hours, but for the sake of time in our listeners time, is there anything else that you feel like you really want to make sure people hear about storytelling?

Laura Lewis-Barr: Well, I guess I'm really hoping that if somebody is looking for coaching, they might check me out. Especially one-on-one coaching for jobs is something I adore doing and yeah. Check out my films and write to me and connect with me. I'd love to hear from some of your 

Kyla Cofer: listeners. Yeah, absolutely. How do we connect with you?

Where do we 

Laura Lewis-Barr: find you? So my business website is training the number [00:49:00] four and breakthroughs training for breakthroughs. And my film website is Laura Lewis, BARR films, 

Kyla Cofer: dash O 

Laura Lewis-Barr: dash. Very good. No dash. And they're all going to be in your show notes 

Kyla Cofer: to her. Yes, they will be in the show notes. So please go find Laura and follow her, have her coach you on telling amazing stories, because I really do believe this.

And I'm so glad we talked because you're affirming this, that storytelling. So transformative, it can really change everything about the way we lead about the way we interact in our lives. So, Laura, thank you so much for sharing your expertise and your wisdom. I'm just really grateful and honored to have 

Laura Lewis-Barr: you here.

Thank you. Thank you. It's been awesome. Thank 

Kyla Cofer: you for joining me on this journey to grow in our leadership. If you enjoyed this episode, you've got to check out the leadership and self care coaching programs on my website@kylacofer.com. Let's change the world together.