Ep. 74: Eliminating Imposter Syndrome with guest Stacy Brookman

Have you ever felt like you were not good enough to do your job? Have you felt like you just weren't worthy? If so, you are not alone. It is a common experience called Imposter Syndrome.  The good news is that it can be overcome! Our guest, Stacy Brookman, joins us to discuss

• her Remarkable Resilience Routine
• emotional boundaries
• flipping the script
• and so many more amazing concepts!

Women leaders who want to eliminate imposter syndrome leverage Stacy Brookman and her confident leadership coaching to clarify their power skills and confidently command their seat at the table. She’s a women’s leadership coach, a conference speaker, and the founder of Real Life Resilience.

Transcript

Kyla Cofer: 0:05

Welcome to the Leadership School podcast. I'm your host, leadership and self-care coach, Kyla Cofer. Here at the Leadership School, you'll hear leaders from around the world sharing their stories and expertise on how to lead with balance and integrity.

Our goal: 0:20

teach you how to be an extraordinary leader. Welcome back Leaders! Today, I'm really excited to introduce to you Stacy Brookman. Stacy works with women leaders who want to eliminate imposter syndrome, so our conversation today is all about imposter syndrome. You know that feeling of I'm not good enough or I can't do this, I'm not qualified enough, they don't want me there, I can't make enough money, shall I continue? We've all had those thoughts and Stacy's here to tell us how to work through them. You hear a lot of personal stories here and a lot of really great ideas and tools and a system and process to walk us through. How do we find confidence and belief in ourselves when we're used to listening to negative messages? Thanks so much, Stacy, for joining me and welcome to the Leadership School podcast. Stacy, I'm just really excited to talk to you more and I think probably cuz I resonate with your story a lot because it's, it, there's so many similarities in my own story and you just have this, a wide range of experience and I'm really excited to talk with you. So thanks for joining me.

Stacy Brookman: 1:35

Thank you.

Kyla Cofer: 1:36

And coming on Leadership School. Why don't you just start us off by telling us your story. I mean, how you got here and, and what you're doing.

Stacy Brookman: 1:43

Well, so I'll start with what I'm doing. So women leaders who wanna eliminate imposter syndrome and people pleasing and overwork and overwhelm, they leverage my confident leadership coaching so they can clarify their power skills and really confidently command their seat at the table. Which leads me back to my story, which is I spent 30 years climbing the corporate ladder. In the insurance industry and at no point, I don't know if zero point, at very few points in that whole ladder climb did I feel confident, did I feel like I was the most amazing leader and I knew what I was doing and all of that sort of thing. So I actually started in the insurance industry, corporate offices and things like that, regional offices. Lower than a secretary. I had to get a promotion to become a secretary and I worked my way. I slogged my way up that ladder and ultimately I gained momentum and then some rungs I skipped, right? Because I could, and I did. And you know, I was that great, a fabulous of a leader. Now I'm looking back, I can say that, but back then, at no point did I feel like. I was great. I was amazing, and I just wanted to shortcut that for everybody else who's out there feeling like they're not enough.

Kyla Cofer: 3:02

Isn't that amazing? You were getting the promotions.

Stacy Brookman: 3:04

Yes.

Kyla Cofer: 3:04

You were getting the roles and you still felt like you just weren't enough. Where did you get on the corporate ladder ladder? Where did you stop?

Stacy Brookman: 3:12

I got to consultant. Consultant to a bunch of agents and things like that, and then I was, I don't know, I was up and down and then, yeah, I guess probably the highest was consultant.

Kyla Cofer: 3:24

So even at a consultant, did you still have this, like, I'm just not good enough to do this job?

Stacy Brookman: 3:29

Oh, yes. And even though, like my team, my, my group of agents that I was directing, all of the, they won like the highest awards and everything else, and I still, which meant that I won the highest awards and still did not feel like I was enough. When I was in a group of the same, other similar people, other executives like me, and it was just like, they must know more. I need to keep my mouth shut and listen to what they're saying instead of sharing my amazing ideas, and that's tough. What held me back was that imposter syndrome and that imposter syndrome holds so many women back. So many women leaders.

Kyla Cofer: 4:10

So many people. I know so many people who resonate with the story. Of course, myself included, I can't remember if it was like season one, my first year in the podcast here, leadership school. We talked with Chris Kelso and he's written a book on imposter syndrome. So listeners, you can go back and listen to Chris Kelso's episode and he's a man, he's a white man who also struggled with imposter syndrome. Yes. So this crosses everybody. So what do you think is causing this? And, and I'll share my own story too, but actually before I do that, it was so interesting to me to hear you say how you were getting all these awards. Mm-hmm. And you still felt like you weren't enough. And I remember so clearly, very clearly having a conversation with a friend of mine and it was on Zoom and I was looking at behind her and her entire wall. It was not a small wall, it was a whole big office wall. Yes. Was covered in framed certificates of awards. And I said, wow, you have a lot of awards. And she goes, oh, that's not even all of them. And I went, wait. What, and the entire conversation with her was all about her not feeling enough. Mm-hmm. And I just said, at what point will you feel enough? At what point will you be enough? So a lot of us are thinking that we just aren't gonna be there. Right. What's making us think this? Is this just a natural human condition?

Stacy Brookman: 5:17

Well to some extent it is because, first of all, I'll tell you, I had a similar thing at one point. I had more letters after my name from all the designations and degrees and certificate, all of that. I had more letters after my name than in my entire name, first, middle, and last name. And that is unreal. So, but I still never felt like I was enough. So a couple of things are battling against us. We have two major parts of our brain involved in this; the amygdala, which is the thing, part of our brain that's always on alert, like, what's going and go wrong? You know, let's look at everything. Stay in the cave. You don't need to, don't do anything that's gonna get you kicked out of the cave. That is instinctual and it's very, very strong.

Kyla Cofer: 6:04

Keeping us safe, we have to keep our, keep our, keep it safe.

Stacy Brookman: 6:07

Yes, keep us safe. Keep, keep protecting ourselves, right? Right, because back in the, I guess, caveman days, you know, if you got kicked out of the cave, if you rubbed somebody the wrong way or did something wrong, you were kicked out and that meant death. So our primitive brain is always on alert and it's always looking for negative evidence that you've messed up something that's wrong, et cetera. And that is very strong in most a lot of people. But we do have the prefrontal cortex, which is that executive function where we plan for the future and we're like, I wanna go for that job, or I wanna go, you know, I wanna become the C E O. Eventually, all of that. It can plan and it can dream, and then that gets knocked down by. Oh, you're not good enough. That's the amygdala talking again. So it's like you have to balance it and you have to say, okay, with your prefrontal cortex, listen, amygdala, I get it. I know what you're doing. You're trying to keep me safe, but you're going to the back of the bus. I'm driving and here's where we're going and, and so that's big, huge part of it. Another part of it is that we are conditioned, especially women, and as children, we're like, be seen and not heard. You're, you just need to go stand over there. Your thoughts, your, your ideas don't necessarily matter. And we take that into adulthood with us. And if we have experiences in adulthood that compliment that, Let's say you speak up in a meeting and someone said, that's a stupid idea. There you go. There's the evidence, and so your brain is back again looking for evidence, and then you're like, okay, I'm never speaking up again. Right. I remember when I was in corporate and I was in in a conference room at a table and everybody was going around sharing ideas, so I shared an idea. And went to the next person. Next person. Then a couple of people down. A man shared the exact same idea and everybody was like, yay, that's a great idea. Let's do that. So, And that, again, gave me evidence that I was not good enough. And I had a fabulous mentor one time. Her name was Olivia Gamble. And she said, listen, this is something with women who don't speak up. And so whenever you are at a conference table or in a Zoom call, whatever, with another woman, and she shares an idea, you have to speak up and say, Ooh, tell me more about that. Even if you don't think it's a good idea, tell me a little bit more how, how did you come to that conclusion or something like that to amplify the voice of women? Because we tend to downplay it. So there's a couple, there's a lot of things in there.

Kyla Cofer: 8:49

Well, we really do. We, I mean, I literally will never, ever be able to count the number of times that I've downplayed my own thoughts, opinions, ideas. Yes. Because I thought I just. I wasn't good enough. Mm-hmm. I wasn't allowed to have those kinds of ideas. I wasn't the right person. I didn't have the authority. I wasn't smart enough to be in the room. I didn't have the qualifications. I mean, that's stop me. And especially starting a business, I think this is really true for a lot of business owners. Those demons will come for sure. They come out and you're learning new skills and. With every new skill, you're like, well, I'm just not good enough. And it is a journey. Yes. And I personally have come really, really far in my own journey and I mean, I wish I would've met you years ago, maybe. I've been, and Chris Kelso helped me a lot thinking about this, but four or five years ago, even that recent, I was still like, well, I'm not good enough to be a coach, a life coach. Right. It was leadership coach. Yes, I could be a life coach, but I'm not good enough to be a leadership coach. Leadership leadership coach. Leaders aren't going to respect me or. I don't have enough leadership experience. And then I looked, I started looking back and going, wait, this isn't true. I have like a lot of leadership experience.

Stacy Brookman: 9:55

And you'll find other people that have less than you that are very successful. Right. And that kind of brings me to another point, which is a lot of women don't apply for jobs like leadership jobs or go hire jobs or in another industry or whatever because they don't have. Nearly 100% of all of the qualifications like listed on Indeed or on the job posting or whatever, and men will, if they hit 50, 60%, hey, that's great. I'm gonna apply for it. And therefore they get them, they get those jobs because when they get there, they're confident. And they're ready to share why they should get that job. And women have a tendency to hold back or downplay their own skills, which does not serve them well.

Kyla Cofer: 10:42

And a lot of our skills, we can learn them. Just because we don't have that now, we can learn them. Oh, yes. And we're capable of. Figuring it out. How many things have we had to figure out? I mean, right. We've had to figure out a lot of things on our own. We're perfectly capable. So I can think through my own journey of how I went from extremely insecure, a lot of self-doubt, really no belief and. I mean, literally just not feeling good enough ever. Mm-hmm. It's the point for, for me, I'm happy to say that that is not me anymore, that I have really overcome most of that. And I started with literally sending a message to myself on my phone. I set it up as a daily reminder to interrupt my day, and it said, I am enough. Yes. And. Every single day I did that. So that's how I started kind of coming out of that. But tell me how, how did you get to this point where you finally realized, I really am enough? Yes. How did you do that? And then let's walk through it. How are we gonna change other people? How are you coaching people on making those transformations?

Stacy Brookman: 11:40

Oh, absolutely. Well, one of the things, as I was going through corporate, I mentioned I had more letters after my name than in my name at some point. And I always wanted to be the person who had the. Corporate, sometimes they like only one person gets the number one, the top, top raise, right? The exceptional raise. And everybody else gets average or low. And if you have two stars on your team, you gotta decide, you know, sorry. So too bad. I always wanted to be that. I had that gold star. I wanted to be the person that was more productive, more competent. And so you're always trying to produce more, overwork yourself, work more hours, prove to other people that you are that stellar leader, right? So it starts right there. It's our thoughts in our head. And again, that's the amygdala saying, this is not good enough. This report, you can't send it out like that. You haven't checked it three times yet, right? And so all of those types of things are just simply sentences. That run through our brain, that's all they are. Or what if so-and-so doesn't like me pushing back on that idea? And so we silence ourselves. So the first thing, there are three things that you have to do. Number one, you have to charge up your resilience. Number two, you have to cultivate your power skills, like really seriously start cultivating those power skills. And third, you have to confidently. Command your seat at the table and all three of those steps involve looking at your thoughts and understand what they do for you or against you. And so it kind of works like this. And this is how I, I coach people. You have to like first do a brain dump. What are you thinking about your job, your role or what is going on in your life? Like, are you getting ready to apply for new jobs? Are you thinking about jumping ship? And you know, you hear those. There's so much opportunity out there and, and then yet you hold back. Why haven't you put your resume out there? Why haven't you updated your res, why haven't you done all of that yet? And or if there's a job open at your, your work and it's another level up or two levels up, you're like, Nope, I'm not gonna do that. So take a look at your thoughts. What are you thinking about that role? Is it that I don't have enough skills? My boss might not promote me. They need me here too, too much. They're never going to let me go. All of those things are not necessarily true. And here's the secret. Sometimes our brains will offer thoughts that aren't. Serving us well and might not be true. So

Kyla Cofer: 14:19

Isn't that crazy? I, it is. I, I tell my kids this all the time. Sometimes your brain is lying to you. Yes, exactly. Sometimes it's just flat out lying to you and you have to learn what actually is true and what exactly. It doesn't make sense that our own mind would do that. We're like, why would I lie to myself? But we do it all the time.

Stacy Brookman: 14:36

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you why. Our brains love to generalize. And again, it's the amygdala, but our brain generalize. It's scary, it's terrible. You might not be, so it tells you you are not qualified for that, right? And then those thoughts roll around in your head, even without you understanding and knowing, which is why I always love to do a brain dump. Put it down on a notebook paper. Google Doc, whatever you want. Just do a five, 10 minute brain dump of all the things you're thinking about, this challenge that you have, whether it's a new job, a, a coworker not making enough money, not making enough money, all of that. Yeah. What are you thinking? About that and so just get it all out cuz it's in there anyway, you might as well start recognizing it and then you can just take one of those sentences and that's all they are is sentences. And take it through a process that I call the remarkable resilience routine. Cuz you can do it daily. Take one sentence and then run it through this process to see if it's serving you well. So, Let's say the circumstance is a new job posting that's and circumstance is completely neutral. It's not good. It's not bad, it's not. It's just a circumstance. And a circumstance is what somebody else says. Maybe a, it's a diagnosis. Sometimes it's just the facts of the case. If you were to go in front of a judge and you just gave the facts, that's what it would be without negative or positive connotation. So circumstances, the fact, what is your thought? About that fact there was a job posting. What are my thoughts about it? And just take one thought. So the thought might be, I'm probably not qualified for it. Right. Maybe something like that, or I probably shouldn't, I'm not gonna get that job anyway. Let's just use that as an example. I'm

Kyla Cofer: 16:24

thinking we have. Tons of them, right? Yes. Because it's, I'm not qualified for it. I'm never gonna get it. It's gonna take too much time. I won't make enough money. They won't pay me what I'm worth all of

Stacy Brookman: 16:33

those. This is easy.

Kyla Cofer: 16:36

Cuz I'm practiced in this, right? Yes. We're good at coming up with these other, we are things that are, are bad. The catastrophizing.

Stacy Brookman: 16:43

Catastrophizing. Exactly. So just take one of those sentences and put that right under the circumstance and then. Take a look and say, what does that sentence evoke in terms of feelings or emotions? So if it's like, they're never gonna hire me, so it'd be a waste of time. Okay. If you had that thought, the feeling or emotion might be despair, discouragement. Something like that. Usually it's a one, one word and it's despair. And from that feeling of despair, this, so it was the circumstance, the thought, the feeling, the next what Feelings drive are actions, and actions are what get you the results, right? So if you had the thought. They're not gonna hire me anyway. And you had the feeling of despair from that thought, your actions might be okay, I'm gonna put it in anyway just because somebody else is telling me I should. Right. And so your cover letter, your resume revamp your, your actions that you. Choose to do towards that is coming from a feeling of of despair.

Kyla Cofer: 17:50

Okay? So you're not gonna put a lot of effort into that cover letter. A lot of effort into that resume. It'll probably sound sad because you feel sad.

Stacy Brookman: 17:58

Yeah. And that's somewhat true. They're all the thoughts that you have are all of the actions that you do around that thought and that feeling are not serving you well. So maybe you had a. A cover letter that you did when you were jazzed up, right? And you used that. So that might be okay, but the process of doing that, you're gonna, number one, you might have actions are a lot of actions. I'm gonna ruminate about it. That's, this is stupid. I shouldn't do it. You're gonna spend time, you're gonna waste time ruminating or dragging your feet around any of those things that you're supposed to be doing. You're not gonna think outside the box. That's one of the things that like despair or some of those other emotions do is. Boxes in your creativity. I'll tell you one of the things that I used to do is like, I'm going to find a gazillion different ways to reach the hiring person, right? So one of those times when I was energized, I'm like, I am the perfect person for this. I was designed for this job, and, and so when you think that sort of thing and you have excitement, you're going to find all kinds of creative ways to connect with that person or to make yourself, put yourself in front of that person or make yourself the best candidate, and it's gonna be a much better experience for you as well. So I'm not saying if you had to spare and you had that thought, they're probably never gonna hire me. I'm not saying that they will never hire you, but your process and your experience of that is not going to feel really good, right? So you might ultimately be successful, but you might not. You might not put all your effort into it. Like, okay. That's good enough. Well, I also

Kyla Cofer: 19:39

like the phrase playing it small. Yes. I mean, I just think about how many times I've played small, because you have all those thoughts. So yeah, you might apply for and get this job, but really what you were qualified for was two rungs up. Yes. And what you really could have done, and if you would've had that energy about it, you might have seen that. And might have been willing to shoot for that and work towards that goal. Well, instead you're like, eh, well, yeah, they got it, but only because they couldn't find anybody else. And Exactly. You know, when you start telling yourself these things, it's, you're not putting that effort and energy into that position and you just keep putting yourself into smaller, you do box.

Stacy Brookman: 20:14

That is so true. And even then, let's say you get the job, and I coach a lot of women who just got a job. I have a C o o and I've got a, a director of. A large hotel and they came to me and they're like, I just got this job and I'm afraid to do X, Y, Z. Like, I'm afraid to push back on some of the policies, or I'm afraid that my communication skill isn't gonna be, I'm afraid that they made a mistake, and that's not a great way to start a job, is it? Right. Not even believing in yourself right after they hire you. Like out of all the hundreds of applications that people are getting, they hired you and you're not even believing that. But it's totally normal, totally normal for, for people to feel like that. So that's why there's a remarkable resilience routine. I mentioned that, and it takes you through that circumstance, thought feeling, or emotion, actions and result.

Kyla Cofer: 21:10

So I started this podcast because I wanted to learn and grow in my leadership journey, and I have been so incredibly inspired by the guests and the conversations. So once the interview ends, I actually keep the conversation going because I have found that sometimes the richest part of the conversation is when we feel like the interview's over and we can just kind of have a relaxed, more casual conversation. Also, if you've noticed, if you've been following this podcast for some time, I used to ask every guest two questions. What does integrity mean to them and what does balance look like to them? Well, I haven't stopped asking those questions. We're just putting those over on our Patreon page, so go check it out at patreon.com/leadership school, and for $6 and 50 cents a month, you can support this podcast. It takes a lot to produce every single episode and. Honestly, I could use a little bit of support. So anything that you're able to contribute would really mean a lot to me and would able to help me to continue to bring these high caliber guests in to have conversations on what does it look like to be an extraordinary leader, and how do we practically. Do that. So those conversations are continuing over at patreon.com/leadership school where I'm asking guests some extra questions, some bonus questions, and you'll get some bonus content over there. So be sure to go check it out. Thanks so much for your support and thanks for so much for subscribing, listening and sharing this podcast. It really does mean a lot, and I'm so honored to show up here in your podcast feed. Make sure I understand it. Think about the circumstance, do a brain dump. What are all the thoughts that you have around that circumstance? What are the facts around the circumstance? Yes. So start with that facts around the circumstance. Yeah. What are the thoughts that you have about it? What are the feelings that you have that associate with picking a few those thoughts?

Stacy Brookman: 22:56

Yeah. Just pick one.

Kyla Cofer: 22:57

Mm-hmm. Just pick one and what are the feelings you have associated with that? And then what actions are you gonna take then?

Stacy Brookman: 23:02

Yeah. Actions you can spend. 30 minutes on, like what? What do you do? You ruminate. You don't tell other people maybe that you're going to apply. You don't ask other people their opinions on what you can do to make yourself a better candidate. You don't do all of those things. So things that you do and don't do are the actions. And then the last part is the result. And the result is you either have a. Terrible experience and you're beating yourself up, right? Or you don't get the job because you haven't thought out of the box, or you haven't made yourself the best candidate possible.

Kyla Cofer: 23:37

So say we do this for this, this particular job, or this one circumstance, this situation that we're in, are we cured? Like, no, this I know, right? So I have found that. Me personally, I will have this moment of like, I've figured it out. I have turned the corner, I've closed that door behind me or whatever. I now believe in myself and I'm confident, and then two weeks later I'm like, I just can't do this. Nobody likes me. I'm not good enough. Yes. What is that? It's kind of like this spiral, but we can grow and come out of it. It's just, I think in my mind, I always hope that it would be like getting on a plane to another country, right? So I have this moment, this idea, this new insight I get on the plane, I fly to another country, I'm dropped off, leave everything behind me, and the whole world is just different and better, and I never think that way about myself again. But it has never once worked like this.

Stacy Brookman: 24:35

No, it just does not get on a plane and be dropped off in that country multiple times before you start to feel comfortable. But. Yes. So you are so used to thinking the same way. You've have grooves in your brain and it's like, this is the thought. This is the thought, and that's what your brain is always gonna go to until you start recognizing, that's my go-to. I get it when I'm in a situation where I feel uncomfortable, where I feel unsure of myself. Then you start recognizing it sooner and sooner and sooner and say, and pretty soon. After it. It just depends. Everybody is totally different. You're gonna be like, oh, I recognize what you're doing. Yes. That's the little mean girl in my head. Right? Okay. Nope. I'm not gonna let you drive this time. I'm in charge, so I see. I get it. Anxiety, I get it. You're gonna come along for the ride. That's okay. However, I am moving forward. I'm going to do this. And the other thing that I always like to do is that remarkable resilience routine can be done on the other side. I like sitting in this for a while that what we just went through, and by the way, that's at real life resilience.com/remarkable resilience. You can go get that framework and it walks you through this. But once you do that, I like sitting there to just recognize this is what my brain is doing and feel the feelings. One of my mentors said, if there is no feeling that you are scared about right, if you can feel all the feelings and let. That sit there, you're not gonna push those away anymore. And it's when you push those away, it's kinda like a each ball and you try to put it under the lake, you know, or the pool under the water and it keeps popping back up. The more you try to push it away, the stronger it's going to come up. So just like, okay, I get it. I'm worried. I get it. I am discouraged that I might not be qualified. Let me just sit with that for a while. What does that feel like in my body? And just really connect your mind and your body and understand what your brain is doing. Because it's doing it for a reason, right? It's doing it for a reason. Maybe you've had bad experiences before. Maybe people drug you down, all kinds of things. And just recognize that and sit there and be able to feel it. Once you process that, then you can go through the whole thing. Circumstances the same. There's a job posting at work, and I always ask my clients, what do you want to feel? What would you like to feel when you look at that job posting? Right? So give me an example. What would you feel if there was a posting at work or something? What feeling or emotion?

Kyla Cofer: 27:12

Having gone through this process before and being at a point where you're feeling a little bit more confident in yourself. Mm-hmm. I think there's more excitement with it. Excitement, yes.

Stacy Brookman: 27:21

Yeah. Some people choose confidence.

Kyla Cofer: 27:22

You see, you're like, there's hope. There's hope there.

Stacy Brookman: 27:24

Yes. Yeah. So that excitement is in the feeling line right there. And from that feeling of excitement, you're gonna do all kinds of actions and you're gonna get a better result even if you don't get the job. Okay. So that's one thing I, I wanna. Share a caveat with it's, you're not making other people hire you. You're not in charge of that. You're in charge of your own mind. So, but you're having a better experience. So from that feeling of excitement, then you do those actions and you get the result of a much better experience. Now, what drives that feeling of excitement? It's a sentence. That runs through your brain, right? So that's where you come up with a sentence that runs through your brain. What do you want to think that will drive that excitement and, and I take people through this, what would cause you to feel excitement? Right. And instead of saying, A lot of people will go straight to, this is another little rabbit trail we can go down. Instead of saying, I'm the best leader ever, I'm the most qualified person that will come to the table. In this interview, right? Our minds do not necessarily believe that unless you really do and then go for it, right? But you can't say that and put it on a sticky note and remind yourself of that if you don't actually 100% believe it. So what I always tell people to do is like go through some thought ladders. I'm probably not gonna get this. What's 10% better than that? I have some of the qualifications, right? So maybe that's what you can think, or, I love this one. It's possible that I am the best candidate they have. It's possible that I'm the best person for the job. It's possible that I might get this job. And then that drives the feeling of excitement. So I love the opening up your mind to possibilities, and when you say that it's possible and you actually believe it, then that drives the amazing actions, the excitement, which drives the actions and the results. Does that make sense?

Kyla Cofer: 29:27

It absolutely does. Maybe adding like a yet to it. Yes. I don't know everything about this job yet. Mm-hmm. Right. I don't, I can't do this job perfectly yet. Right. And knowing that there's effort involved, you've got to learn something and put that effort right into it. Yes. And the thing too is since we're talk, thinking about jobs, if you are thinking about a specific job and you've looked at it and you don't feel like you match all the qualifications to not make that decision for the hiring person. Yes. Like you, you have to own your own self and your own decisions, but you can't make someone else's decisions. All you can do is give them all the best information about who you are and let them decide whether or not you're qualified. Don't try and. Beat them to the punch.

Stacy Brookman: 30:07

Right, exactly. And that's where that positive one comes. Where the thought I'm going to think is it's possible I'm the most amazing person that will come to the table and have, drive that excitement, drives those actions that will make you an amazing. Candidate for this job, right? Or if you're just starting a job, we'll hope you have a much better experience. Now, I, I do wanna talk a little bit more about those other people, right? So all of us go around and we're, as human beings, we're human beings, we say. If you will hire me, I'll be happy, or to our spouse, if you will get me flowers for Mother's Day or my birthday, I will be happy. Or if my kids would just behave or if my colleague would just shut up and stop talking so much, I would be happy. What you're doing there is you're giving your power away. And so we work on that in, in my coaching sessions, we work on how are you giving your power away? Where in the world are you giving your power away? And that is blaming other people or making sure that other, in your own brain, telling other people that, Hey, it's their fault I didn't finish this, et cetera. And those are big, thick manuals that we have for other people. We just need to. Give them out. If they would just read the manual that I created that you would need to do to be a good human, then I would be happy. Right? Guess what? They have manuals for you too, and you're not minding their manuals. So we just all have to drop. Our manuals, drop them and have no expectations of other people. Now, can we guide other people by like making ourselves a great candidate by doing all that we can absolutely. But just know that your emotions, your feelings should not be based on what other people do or don't do. It should be based on yourself.

Kyla Cofer: 32:04

This is boundaries 1 0 1, right? This is boundaries and life ownership.

Stacy Brookman: 32:07

Yes. Part of Boundaries.

Kyla Cofer: 32:08

Yes. I love this quote, Xavier Dagba. He's on Instagram. You should all follow him. He's great. But he says that Boundaries is not telling people what they need to do in your presence or telling them how they need to act. What it is, is it's how you show up when you are now in a place that no longer with your own like integrity when like your, your own integrity has been disrupted. It's the way that you show up and how you respond. Yes. So it's not telling someone else what to do, it's what you do instead. So,

Stacy Brookman: 32:36

correct. I always say boundaries are for you, not against other people. Yes. So people can't trample your boundaries. Only you can,

Kyla Cofer: 32:44

and you can have boundaries with yourself in the way that you speak to

Stacy Brookman: 32:46

yourself too. Yes. Oh, absolutely. I highly recommend that. Highly recommend because we, we do, we have that broken record that mean girl in our heads it says, don't do that, you're, that's dangerous. This is a stupid idea. Don't even speak up.

Kyla Cofer: 32:59

And just owning that too. And honestly, if we really, really think about it and we're really honest with ourselves, this is gonna sound kind of crazy, but I really do think it's a form of self-harm. If we speaking to ourselves that negatively and saying, yes, I'm not good enough, I'm terrible, I stink, and all these things, it's a form of self-harm that people just can't see. I agree. Yeah. And it's not okay to treat ourselves that way because I can look at you and if you. Ever. I, I barely know you, Stacy. I'm gonna get to know you. I'm like getting to know you and I love this. But yes, we've only met a few times and if you ever spoke to yourself that way and I heard it, I would be so sad. Oh yes. And I would not be okay with that, and I would never want you to do that. And I'd speak right up and I'd say, that's not okay. You cannot talk to yourself. That is not true. Yes. And you would do the same for me. Exactly. And I would do that for anybody I met. It's just not okay to speak to ourselves that way, ever.

Stacy Brookman: 33:50

Yes. I totally agree, but just keep in mind too, we don't wanna beat ourselves up about that. Yes. You know? Cause that could be a vicious circle, but Cause it is totally very common. It's very common and very normal. It's just not serving us well. So it's like, okay, I recognize that is not serving me well. What can I do? And you're like doing that. Prefrontal cortex, what can I do to stop beating myself up? What can I do to recognize my achievement, small, medium, and large? What can I do to become more completely genuinely confident? That's one of the things that I, I lacked that when I walked into a room, my brain automatically told me I was the least person there. No matter what. No matter what. And it just is something that we get into a rut of, of just acting that way. And so now that you have that comprehension, like everybody listening to this, you have two choices. Do I choose to understand and recognize this and do something about it? Or do I go back in my cave and not do anything about it? Just keep on living my life. Right now that you have that awareness and find

Kyla Cofer: 35:05

some new sentences, find the new things, find new sentences to replace those. Exactly. I I love how you said, you know, do I, I have the qualifications. What small, medium and large achievements do I have already? Yes. When have I been successful? Right. And instead of finding all the reasons when you weren't, find all the reasons that you were and all the opportunities that things did go well.

Stacy Brookman: 35:24

I am so glad you brought that up because like I said, the, the amygdala is always looking for negative evidence. Evidence, and you, you could find some, yeah, you did mess up on that one big project that everybody knew about, right? It's okay, right? Your brain's gonna find those, that evidence, but you also, it hides the evidence that's positive, so you always have to look for that. Let me spend at least an equal amount of time looking for the evidence that I am qualified. That I can do this, that I am an amazing leader. Right. At least spend equal amount of time on that.

Kyla Cofer: 35:58

Yes. At least choose and ch you get the choice over it. Yes. Choosing where we're gonna put that energy and, and allowing ourselves the, the opportunity to. See ourselves the way other people do see us. Mm-hmm. In a positive light. Most people see us that way. Yes, there are gonna be the jerks who don't. Right. And, but we keep them on the outer circle and push them away. Right. Because they don't get to say, I love Brene Brown when she says, you know, I put a list in my pocket of people whose opinions really actually matter. Mm-hmm. And, and the list is very short. Right. Think about who you're there to serve and who you're there to help. Right. Because those people do see you in a positive light. And people send also will see us. The way that we are portraying ourselves. Exactly. So when we portray ourselves with that confident and that that self-love and that self-compassion, people are drawn to that.

Stacy Brookman: 36:44

Yeah, exactly. I, I love it. It's, I don't know, a lot of people will probably recognize this. I spent a lot of time with something between me and everybody else, and that was a persona of I'm competent and confident leader. So I had to project that, that. Fake it till you make it, and that simply doesn't work because I never felt like I was competent or confident or qualified or had the best ideas, even if I did. And so I was always trying to keep this persona up of being a great person, of being the best person. Did it serve me sometimes? Yes, it did serve me sometimes, but a lot of times it did not. And it was a slog. I mean, I slogged my way up the ladder and I spent decades doing that. So that's why I wanna get, help everybody to understand that it's a choice. You don't have to, you can be. People are not born with confidence. People are not born like with char charisma and all of that. People are not born leaders. They get it. They start practicing it incompetently until they actually are competent. At it.

Kyla Cofer: 37:57

Well, I'd love that you said people aren't born that way. You're not born an Olympic champion. Correct. You're not born the president of the United States. Right. You're not born into the highest, the c e o levels. You grow into those and you learn, develop the skills for those things as you go. I mean, think about how hard Olympic athletes train. I mean, come on. Right. My son is starting a TaeKwonDo and we got this little sheet and it was so fun to kind of get him, get him started and everything. You know, he is gonna start at the very level. Beginner level white belt, and he's very, very young. And at the bottom it says, remember, a black belt is a white belt. Who didn't give up?

Stacy Brookman: 38:33

Oh, I love that. Yes, love that.

Kyla Cofer: 38:36

You didn't come out the gate being a black belt. You grew into it and learned, and you don't come out of the gate being. This person who doesn't have any negative thoughts about yourself, especially if you've spent 20, 30 years believing that you weren't good enough and that you weren't qualified enough, you've yes. That, that is the skill you've practiced. So if you want a new skill, you turn that. You flip the script, start practicing the new skill of loving who you are and being confident who you are and, and going, I am the leader who's qualified for this. I. Am a good leader. I am a leader who works hard at this. Yes. Who shows up for people who is people first, who brings diversity, who is emotionally intelligent, and you start calling yourself those things and you start building that into your life. Exactly. Yes. Awesome. I love it. Stacy, this has been so, so good. I wanna talk to you for another seven hours. Yes, we could.

Stacy Brookman: 39:22

We could have great conversations.

Kyla Cofer: 39:25

We're gonna do this again, I'm sure. I'm sure. But is there anything else you wanna make sure that we have heard before we head out here?

Stacy Brookman: 39:31

You know, I think there are five things that a lot of women leaders that trip us up, or even any leader, actually. Number one, it's the, it's the need to be perfect. I feel like I have to be perfect. So everybody, it's again, that's that persona that you're trying to project that everybody else can see. Right. The need to do everything myself because nobody else can do it as well, and it reflects on me. So I have to do everything myself. The need to be tough. A lot of leaders think, okay, now that I'm the leader, I have to be tough. I have to like completely change my persona around the belief that you have to be a lone wolf. I can't collaborate, I can't bring people in and and connect and say, Hey, I don't know this. Do you know that? Right? And share. And then the belief that you have to sacrifice your personal life. It is totally not required to be a great leader. So if any of those resonate with you, let me know. I do have a quiz, real life resilience.com/quiz, and that will help you identify which one of those. You might resonate with, but actually go to that remarkable resilience routine that's gonna help you think through those thoughts, both the positive and the negative, and understand what your brain is doing. And is that, and ask yourself, is that serving me well? So I think that's the most amazing thing. When you start recognizing what your brain is doing and you're up to it. You're like, oh, I see what you're doing. I get it. No problem.

Kyla Cofer: 40:57

Well, I've been practicing these things for quite a while now, but I'm heading over to your website right now because I need a refresher and it's time for me to do that. So yes, I'm really thankful This has been such a good conversation. This has been fun and I appreciate you letting me kind of interrupt quite a bit with my own stories today. That's alright.

Stacy Brookman: 41:12

Everybody's got a story. Everybody does.

Kyla Cofer: 41:15

So yeah, this is great. Thank you so much, Stacy. Thank you. Hey, thank you so much for listening. If you've liked what you heard and you want some more tools and resources to help you on your journey, go check out kyla cofer.com/free stuff.