Ep. 75: Unlocking the Potential of Your Organization with Heather Haas

Have you ever wondered how to create a culture of transformation within your company? Today, we had an amazing conversation with Heather Haas, president of ADVISA, who shared her experience transitioning from a sixth-grade teacher to leading a leader and culture development firm. She enlightened us with her insights about the difference between training and transformation, the importance of intentional choices, and how understanding the learning process can shape the culture you want in your organization.

Our discussion delved into the rising cultural movement of people-first leadership and how it's changing the way individuals and companies think. We explored how technology is altering the future of work and why it's crucial to equip our people and companies to connect with each other. Heather shared examples of how investing in leader and culture development can lead to tangible outcomes such as employee retention, productivity, engagement, customer loyalty, and customer engagement.

Lastly, we touched on the importance of sharing perspectives, creating boundaries, and the power of stillness in building relationships with co-workers for a healthy workplace and a successful business. Heather shared her mother's advice to always surround yourself with people you can learn from, as well as the importance of taking a pause to be still. Don't miss this inspiring and insightful conversation on creating a culture of transformation and people-first leadership with Heather Haas!

Heather has a course for new leaders called "Emerging Leaders Series." She is offering 50% off the course for anyone who does it because they heard about it here. Go check out this wonderful resource she is offering our listeners!

Heather's passion for fueling others’ success drove her from her beginnings as a teacher and principal to her role as President of ADVISA. Heather leads a team of 38 bright, caring people who help clients create effective teams, leaders, and cultures. Heather loves the mountains, curling up with a book and being active outdoors. Her family and her faith are her greatest sources of strength and joy.

Transcript

Kyla Cofer: 0:10

Welcome to the Leadership School podcast. I'm your host, leadership and self-care coach, Kyla Cofer. Here at the Leadership School, you'll hear leaders from around the world sharing their stories and expertise on how to lead with balance and integrity. Our goal teach you how to be an extraordinary leader. Welcome back leaders. Today I'm introducing you to Heather Haas. She is the president of ADVISA. ADVISA is an organization that leads people to help clients create effective teams, leaders, and cultures. So we actually spend most of our conversation talking about that culture part. We focus in on the difference between training and transformation. So where training comes in, and then how actual truthful transformation takes place within a company or organization. So she walks us through how you actually create that transformation. Why does it matter? What does it look like? And H what are the steps to making that happen within your company? What does it look like to create the culture that you want in your organization? So thanks so much for Heather for joining me. This is a great conversation. I know y'all enjoy it. Heather, I'm really excited to talk with you and maybe you could start by telling us your story and telling us who you're what to this point. We'll just take from there.

Heather Haas: 1:35

Yeah, so story is interesting. One, I had significant career change. I started out in education, so I was a sixth grade teacher for seven years and then got my master's in educational leadership and worked in administration, building level administration, as well as district curriculum and professional development. And so at heart, I'm still a teacher. Teaching and learning is my passion. And so the professional journey that started out, you know, helping sixth graders. Read and write, and all of that has transitioned into, I'm now leading a leader and culture development firm called ADVISA, and our mission is to help our clients build effective teams, leaders, and cultures, because we truly believe everyone deserves the opportunity to thrive at work. So that's really what drives us this, genuine mission to help companies, nonprofits, organizations of all shapes and sizes, really connect with their people in meaningful ways and create work environments where people can be the best version of themselves. So personally, I'm married. I have three kids, and running a consulting business and raising three children, and the traveling and all of it. I think I've learned a lot about how to prioritize and about what's really important and about how to make choices in my own life so that I'm honoring who, who I am, who I wanna be, and both the kind of business leader that I wanna be, as well as the kind of. Wife, mother, friend, person that I wanna be.

Kyla Cofer: 3:29

Yeah, it's a lot of work, right? Sometimes we tend to just kind float through our lives and kind just go by. But when we can take moments and be really intentional about who we and what we're doing it does take some effort. It takes attention and intention. So you went from being a teacher to now the president of ADVISA , and I imagine your skills in education really help with like the workshops and leading that you're doing with companies at ADVISA.

Heather Haas: 3:57

Without a doubt, I mean, I think one of the core capabilities, of any organization is learning. So whether it's a hospital setting or it's a manufacturing company or distribution company or a tech firm, organizations that are able to learn quickly and people within those organizations who are able to learn quickly are often more effective and they're able to have more influence. So yes, I think my ability to understand the learning process and be able to build trust and shared purpose with other people so that learning can occur has been really instrumental in my growing the team here at ADVISA and in the way that we go about doing, doing our work with clients.

Kyla Cofer: 4:52

So you said a couple things that I wanna kinda want to go back to. You said the learning process and building trust.

Heather Haas: 4:59

And Shared purpose.

Kyla Cofer: 5:00

Shared purpose . So I kinda want to break those down a little bit we've talked about those at the leadership school podcast in the past , what do you mean when you say the learning process?

Heather Haas: 5:15

Yah, the pedagogy of teaching and learning in an academic setting. There's also adult learning and so we, we know a lot about, there's certainly knowledge, absorption and just knowing things, but there's also a very social process. That's involved in how people learn and how we make memories and how things really stick. There's an element of story and narrative that is very powerful in terms of helping to connect people with ideas and in helping people to come along with change and adopt new things. So yeah, I think as we think about the way we design our approach to consulting and our approach to leadership development, which very much anchored in what we know about adult learning theory. So specifically we know that 10% of behavior change comes from the workshop. Right. The, the formal learning experience, about 20% of behavior change comes through that social piece. It's relationships and connections outside of the formal learning experience, but 70% of adults making change back on the job after a workshop is environmental. And so it's really critical. I, I think especially today where we're, we're facing a, a very real shortage in leaders like demographically speaking. There just simply aren't enough humans in the generations coming up to replace the boomer generation exiting the workforce. And so there this acute need and, and leadership gap is huge. So we're really trying to meet companies where they are and help them very strategically design entire learning experiences, not just workshops, but the relationships, the mentorship, the connections that are so vital to that social piece, as well as all of the environmental pieces, the conditions back on the job if you will to support people in making behavior change.

Kyla Cofer: 7:29

Well, you know, as a workshop presenter, I'm really intrigued by hearing people are only going to change with the 10% from what they hear at the workshops. So I'm like, well, does that mean we need more workshops or we need better workshops or the workshop need s to be more social? Where they more integrated with people beacause that is where that transformation comes from? But what I'm hearing is, yes, the workshops are valuable and they're helpful, but to not leave it at that, to make sure you're following up with that, that social development and that personal transformation, like that culture in the community.

Heather Haas: 8:04

Absolutely. I mean, the workshop is where it starts. There has to be a catalyst or an infusion of new ideas and new information. Even inspiration is what you can get from a really well done workshop, but I think, as you know so well, to follow that up with some coaching. For example, to come alongside someone and say, okay, given what you learned, what's really meaningful to you, and how might you make change? Or what stands out? Whatever the the important things are the coaching that happens after. That's where all the, the practice and where the applying of the new mindsets and behaviors, that's where it either becomes new habits or we tend to slide back. And so we talk a lot at ADVISA about the knowing doing gap. So a workshop, it's great. You're gonna go learn and you're gonna know some new things and even be motivated initially to go try those new things. But the doing over time is what creates transformation. And that's really like where we're trying to help our clients is take individual learning leaders who are learning new things, support them over time, so that actually transforms the culture of the company.

Kyla Cofer: 9:31

Well, you know, I'm really glad you said that, like that you follow up with the actual doing of the work because how many times have all of us been to a workshop or conference and been like, all right, checked off my CLEs, or like, I'm just, I'm done , move on. But like it was almost a waste of a day. I mean, you might meet some people. Yeah, you might like have a few little pieces that you might be able to change on something, but unless you actually are doing some of that follow up work, all that inspiration from that one day is just kind goes away. And I've done that. I mean, I've been to so many, I'm like, oh, that was so nice. I couldn't tell you what I learned. You know, it, it might be like a stair step.

Heather Haas: 10:07

Without a doubt. And you know, there's a very real thing also, you know, learning theory called the Forgetting Curve. We learned something, but then over time that kind of wanes. So we've gotta just create environments where people have the tools and materials and support back on the job. And that's the other piece that relates to our mission of we believe everyone deserves opportunity to thrive at work. It's really not fair to send, you know, a young leader out to a workshop where they learn all of these amazing skills and mindsets for how to develop their people or lead their team. But then when they come back on the job, like nothing is supporting them, leading in those ways. That's kinda frustrating actually. It's like, well, but I just learned that we should make time for connection. In our team meetings, but around here our norm is to pack meetings back, to back, to back, to back, and in reality, I don't have any time to create social connection for my team. So, those are the kind of disconnects we try to broker with the executive team who's investing in this development to help them understand there may be some organizational, some policy, or some structural changes that need to go along with your investment in leadership development.

Kyla Cofer: 11:34

Yeah, absolutely. And, and if you do, like you said, send one person, two people from the team instead of the whole team. Not everybody's on that same page and people are like, just. Why are you making waves here? Why are you like trying to change things? They're working and you don't really understand that maybe they really aren't working.

Heather Haas: 11:50

Exactly. Can't read the label from inside the jar right outside the jar . And you try to come back and be like, Hey, actually guys, really we, it's sort of like yeah, who do you think you are? Or,

Kyla Cofer: 12:05

and that's, and creates a toxic environment for, for those leaders who are really trying to grow and thrive. And so I think that's what gets to what you said, that third piece of the shared purpose, and that's that vision. Leaders have to carry that vision. And if the vision is we're all going to create a culture with these things and we're gonna listen and learn from each other, then you're creating a shared purpose and you can, and everybody's in on it.

Heather Haas: 12:26

A hundred percent and that shared purpose, the art of doing that is you have to understand what your people care about and who they are. So creating that safety where people can be their authentic selves at work and where an effort is made to understand, you know, what do these people value and care about and what matters to them, then you can link that. With the aims , the vision of the organization. So that shared purpose is really that blend of what are we about and where are we heading, and how is that meaningful for you? And does that you reach your personal aspirations and aim? That's where the magic happens, and today, at this moment, We, we have an entire world of, of workers and employees and talent out there who is saying, yeah, I'm not gonna go back to that office environment that isn't meaningful, that isn't meeting my needs, where I don't feel safe and I don't feel valued. So it's almost like a, a rebellion that's kinda a strong word, but I mean, we work with about 500 companies across all industries. I mean, what we're seeing is that employees are holding the cards. And employers are starting to come around and say, okay, we've gotta flip the script here. And really start to understand, what do these people need and how do we create an environment that's going to attract the best.

Kyla Cofer: 14:09

Yeah , this is really a cultural movement. So we started talking about this here at my podcast, like year one about people first leadership. Yes. That people first, leadership is the new term, right? It's the new way of leading. The new way of doing a company is focusing on your employees and companies who do this really thrive a lot more and then cause you're thriving, people are thriving at work. We've talked all about that. But I've been doing some interesting reading lately and hearing about how this really is this cultural movement and the older generation, the baby boomers, They want this because we want to feel that safety at work and you wanna have the psychological, emotional, physical safety at work to really grow and thrive. But it's a different way of thinking for people who haven't done that before and companies who haven't done that. So that's why it's really important to bring in like the consultant, like ADVISA, and coaches and who can really help support your team doing this because it's the way the world is moving.

Heather Haas: 15:00

It absolutely is. And I think with the rise of technology and AI and all of these other things that are sort of looming out there to really disrupt and change the future of work, the more we can equip our people and our companies to connect people to each other and really raise the bar for, okay, if technology is gonna do so much more of these types of things. How do we really make sure that the human aspect of our business, whether it's serving patients or customers or or solving problem, whatever it is. I think as the technology continues to increase the importance of the human and emotional, relational, empathetic aspects of what people do at work are even more important. To me, these factors are all kinda, it's kinda a perfect storm that's really creating tremendous opportunity for helping companies and organizations become more human.

Kyla Cofer: 16:08

How are you seeing this affect the work that we're doing and the end results of the work? So I'm just curious, at ADVISA, you work with many, many companies and I'm just curious how you've seen when you've worked with these companies and done this transformational work and made an effort to invest in the people of the culture and create things. How is it changing the end result of the companies versus, versus how things were done 20, 30 years ago? You know?

Heather Haas: 16:34

Mm-hmm. One of the most tangible outcomes that we see for organizations who really invest in leader and culture development over time is two very important metrics. Employee retention, so less turnover, more productivity, more engagement, and those things can be measured. You know, there are million ways to measure employee engagement and obviously employee retention. Very straightforward to measure that, but also customer loyalty and customer engagement. There's a very real correlation between employee engagement and customer loyalty. If I'm doing business with a company and I'm the customer and interacting with an employee who feels seen, heard, and valued, and who is challenged and encouraged at work, that's gonna be a good interaction. And the multiplier effect of that gauge employees going above and beyond giving their discretionary effort to deliver value for customers. That's what really then starts to drive business results and profit and productivity measures.

Kyla Cofer: 17:44

And it's measurable. Like we're seeing the changes and we're seeing the differences and it's just so fun to see how movements like this, like kinda do go worldwide, especially with technology, but how culture shifts and is shaped by what we do at work.

Heather Haas: 17:59

Absolutely. Well, and most of us spend a significant amount of time at work. And even today, while at work anymore doesn't necessarily mean physically. In an office building at work. It may mean in my basement, but it's where our hearts and minds are, and if our hearts and minds are doing the work, et cetera, wow. The impact on the world. If we are doing that work in an environment with other people, for leaders who truly care about us. And our wellbeing. The ripple effect of that, I think is really inspiring to think about. That's why what we do and what we're, the movement we're trying to create at ADVISA to create healthier, more connected, more engaged work cultures is it's important work.

Kyla Cofer: 18:52

So I started this podcast because I wanted to learn and grow in my leadership journey, and I have been so incredibly inspired by the guests and the conversations. So once the interview ends, I actually keep the conversation going because I have found that sometimes the richest part of the conversation is when we feel like the interview's over and we can just kind of have a relaxed, more casual conversation. Also, if you've noticed, if you've been following this podcast for some time, I used to ask every guest two questions. What does integrity mean to them and what does balance look like to them? Well, I haven't stopped asking those questions. We're just putting those over on our Patreon page, so go check it out at patreon.com/leadership school, and for $6 and 50 cents a month, you can support this podcast. It takes a lot to produce every single episode and honestly, I could use a little bit of support. So anything that you're able to contribute would really mean a lot to me and would able to help me to continue to bring these high caliber guests in to have conversations on what does it look like to be an extraordinary leader, and how do we practically do that. So those conversations are continuing over at patreon.com/leadership school where I'm asking guests some extra questions, some bonus questions, and you'll get some bonus content over there. So be sure to go check it out. Thanks so much for your support and thanks for so much for subscribing, listening and sharing this podcast. It really does mean a lot, and I'm so honored to show up here in your podcast feed. So you touched on it a little bit, but walk us through like what your process is when you start working with someone new a new company. What's your process and do you continue working on that or is there a point when you can, you say, well, our work here is done, like you are where you are at. Walk us through what you're actually doing and how that change is actually happening.

Heather Haas: 20:45

yeah, we have a, a very strategic process actually that's really kinda three phases and we start with the executive team and the first thing we do is we try to diagnose what's not working on the people side of the business or, you know, what are the opportunities for leadership and culture improvement. So we collect some data. There's a variety of different ways we can do that. And we have a proprietary leadership and culture assessment that we often use, but even employee engagement data can be a starting line. The reason we start with data is because there's a real tendency, or not so much anymore, but there used to be a real tendency for executive teams to say, oh, this is the touchy feel stuff I deal with, you know, bottom line. And I'm dealing with strategy. And when we start with data, it's hard to argue. This is the information that we've gathered from your people. This is what they said. What do you make of it? So that diagnosing organizational dysfunction and opportunity for improvement is a really important level set.

Kyla Cofer: 21:50

Are you doing interviews with people or you like having them fill out surveys?

Heather Haas: 21:54

Yeah, great question. Both. In many cases, you've got people filling out anonymous surveys where they're asked to rate. How effective are our leaders? Or to what extent do I feel psychologically safe at work? How much development have I have I gotten? So yeah, there are some of those kinds of measurements as well as. We may do some focus groups or we may collect some behavioral assessment data, so all of that starts to fill in the mosaic of what's going on here.

Kyla Cofer: 22:32

Do you feel like people are a little bit more open and honest because you're a third party? Like they might tell you, but they won't tell their boss what they really think?

Heather Haas: 22:38

Yes. The anonymity of those efforts is a really important part of this. Because then we can sit down with the senior leadership of the company and say, it's what it is. Like this is a starting line and you're brave to even care enough to ask and to spend the time to wanna dig in. And then once we've sort of aligned around, wow, we, we do have some opportunities to improve, then we lead the executive team through a process where we help them define, What is the intentional culture? What are the core values that represent the kind of environment, but like, who do we wanna be? What is our corporate character? Let's define that. And we, we get really precise in, you know, naming those values and the behaviors that roll up into those. And then we define what are the leader capabilities that will activate that culture. So in other words, we start with the executive team and we say, in other words, what do leaders need to say and do around here to be effective? And that will lead, we lead through process where we get aligned around three to five leader capabilities. So now we have core values, the pillars of your intentional culture, your corporate character, and now we know what leaders need to say and do to activate that culture. The next phase of our work is we design learning experiences for leaders at all levels that will give them the training, the tools, the space to grow their skills, and the ability to carry that intentional culture or activate it. And then once we design that, and those are pretty customized learning experiences cause we're trying to back righ into who are you trying to become then the third phase of our work is deploying our team facilitators to deliver those experiences, that coaching, over time.

Kyla Cofer: 24:45

yeah. Over time. That's, that's the key word right there, because like you said right in the beginning, the workshops are just the 10%. That's right. It's, it's the, that social, that interaction and working together and, and doing this over time. Ithink it's so funny how we come in to anything, I think we innately understand that things take time, but then when it comes down to it, we expect things to happen quickly, especially as Americans. So we are like, well, I'm gonna lose 20 pounds, so I'm gonna go to the gym and by next week I'll be good to go. You know, I'm gonna, I wanna completely change the way our company works. We're not gonna have violent rhetoric. We're not gonna, we're gonna be diverse and next week we'll be good to go. And then you start getting into it and realize like, this takes effort and this takes, this does take time and. We can't be who we say we are unless we actually do the work to be to, to get there and do that.

Heather Haas: 25:38

Very well said. And just the acknowledgement of the reality that it takes time is really hard. I think for some organizations, they want results so quickly and I, we have to remind them like, Hey, have you ever tried to lose 10 pounds? Have you ever tried to stop drinking Diet Coke? It's super hard to change behavior, and that's what we're asking all your leaders to do. We've just given them sort of a whole new playbook and they're motivated to do it, but we've gotta give them the time and support to make those changes. We've gotta coach them and encourage them and give them the just in feedback. All of those things.

Kyla Cofer: 26:24

I Actually wanna also talk about, we kinda said something a minute ago, but the value of having a third party come in. Because when we're running our business, we're so focused on the work that we're doing. And unless you bring somebody in, whether you're hire, even if you hire an employee full-time to come on board and say, I'm gonna make those changes, that person has a big mountain to climb.

Heather Haas: 26:44

Yes.

Kyla Cofer: 26:44

And I talked about this just recently in another episode. I'm not sure when it's gonna air, but with Wayne Beringer, who. Literally climbed Mount Kilmanjaro and had this big mountain to climb of having to change company culture and how hard it was doing that from the inside. And it's really, I think, helpful because when you're inside the company, you're doing the work of the company. You're having to get your products out, do client interactions, but to actually focus on that company culture, unless you're getting the whole team together every day and every week and making that intention, you can get really lost in that.

Heather Haas: 27:21

It is. And the other thing I find is not everybody is an expert on how to do this, right? The, the companies we work with, they're experts on what they make and what they sell and the, and the brilliant technology that they've brought into being, that's their expertise. And I think sometimes there's this, CEOs are sort of, they think I'm the culture and I should be able, we should be able to do this and it really can help to have someone come in who says "Come along with us. There's a process. And we can get you there." it can be very helpful. But then once we've gotten clear on the important things and we've equipped leaders with the skills and tools, then it really does go from the executive team to, it's really trickles down and it's about what are leaders saying and doing on the daily, and are they living out those core values and are they. Treating people in a way that's consistent with those values. And that's why we always say leaders are culture carriers. You can't do strategic planning and come up with your values and hang them on the wall and stop there. That doesn't do anything. And in fact, it can do more harm than good if you name, this is who we are and this is what we wanna be. And then none of your leaders live that out. That's really where employees start to not trust or start to feel the disconnect.

Kyla Cofer: 29:03

It's like the leader who says we need a crm, so go pick out a CRM and start using it. The leader won't use it.

Heather Haas: 29:09

Exactly.

Kyla Cofer: 29:09

It's so frustrating cause you're like, why did I do all this work if it doesn't affect you? Like you're just making me do busy work so it doesn't follow, it doesn't compute. And oh, I lost my train of thought. I was gonna. I, I got distracted. I'm thinking about my own situation.

Heather Haas: 29:25

Yeah. Well, as soon as you said crm, I was like, oh, I bet she's had to do that whole CRM dance before.

Kyla Cofer: 29:31

Yeah. Oh yeah. Many times. Many times. It's really frustrating when you're like, I'm the one who does all this work and does all this details, and then no one follows it. Cause the leaders don't follow it. It's, it's really frustrating. Oh, I was gonna say, was, When you do this work, I notice how we have this more pride in our work and more pride in who we've become as people because we've, we've taken that time to be intentional about how we're going forward and making those transformations. I don't think there's any, well, there should be no shame in needing a transformation. No, there, there's not in that cause. I think sometimes the work transformation means that things are bad. Mm-hmm. And that we we're trying to change our lives like an addict becoming clean, you know, like we're trying to change things, but I, I don't want that word to bring that connotation with it, because what it just means is that, We're becoming better and stepping more into who we and who we wanna be. And it doesn't mean that we're starting from a bad place. We might starting from amazing place. We might be a, that's got it together. But we want to keep going forward.

Heather Haas: 30:37

I love how you said becoming more of who we are . No question about it. Transformation is kind of back to what I was talking about earlier with my background in learning. We transform when we learn something new and when we confront a new construct and now we have a new lens that we can see everything out. And that's just that another lens. Another lens, another lens of seeing ourselves and others. And I think that's that evolving. Is is really such a healthy process and it's, I think as humans, I believe that's really what we're here to do, is just to continue to evolve and access our own purpose and value on this earth. That's, you know, really what it's all about.

Kyla Cofer: 31:27

Right. And that's actually what we were kinda talking to a little bit before we even started this interview. Like we were talking about kids. Cause we had mm-hmm. Both have kids and we were talking about some things going on with them and just kinda look back to who we were as kids and who we are now. Like we weren't bad children, but we had a lot to learn. Yeah. And where we're at now for where we're at 90 years old, we're gonna have a lot to learn And look at the 90 year olds, a hundred year olds who are just like, lemme teach you it. And even at that age, you're like, I still have more. There's more, there's whole universe of things to learn. So it's, and each season in our life brings something different. So each season of a company is gonna something different difference.

Heather Haas: 32:05

Absolutely. And the more we can normalize the making mistakes is okay, as long as we learn from it . And I may not have mastered this yet, and I know that's even another thing. You know, back when I was in education, you know, growth mindset, Carol Dweck's work around having a growth mindset and the power of that for children that like, Hey, it's okay you don't have it yet. We're gonna keep working on it. You'd be shocked how often I have to remind adults. It's okay to say, I don't know. I don't know how to do this and, but I'm gonna get some support or I'm gonna get some help. Asking for help is a very important competency for leaders cause it's impossible for one person to have their finger on everything and be able to do it all.

Kyla Cofer: 32:56

Oh yeah, absolutely. So I was watching this documentary, this mini documentary yesterday on Van U2. He Was talking about song he had written , one of his songs. And then recently it was like a song from the 70s or 80s and recently he kinda rewrote some lyrics, then there was another song hee wrote that he was like, "I couldn't write this song, then."

Heather Haas: 33:29

yeah,

Kyla Cofer: 33:29

It didn't make sense to write that then Uhhuh, but this is what I had changed the lyrics. Cause now the song made more sense to do it differently. Mm-hmm. And so I think that's kinda what we, you know, there's, there's this ebb and flow of what we're doing in our companies and what we're doing in our lives. And the season of one thing might be now and we, we grow and we're intentional about that until it becomes something else and we're ready for it then.

Heather Haas: 33:52

Well, what you mentioned there about Bono is as we. Go through our seasons of our life, we gain perspective and with different perspective. There's such an opportunity to share that with other people so that they get the benefit. Just like he said, I couldn't have written that then, cause I only see it this way now. But the magic is like sharing that with other people and I think that's so huge. You know, there's like, The surgeon General recently came out with saying that we're suffering from an epidemic of loneliness in this country. So the ability to keep people connected in an authentic enough way to be able to share perspective and to be able to say, I know you don't see it now, but I've been there and it's okay. It's gonna be okay. Or, you know, just hang in there, whatever it is. When you start to contemplate the reality of, you know, eight, 10 people, for example, in the workplace, according to an Ernst Young Belonging Survey they did recently report being lonely, report not feeling like anyone really knows them at work. That's tragic . It's, and it's not just tragic for individuals. I mean, that costs companies money in terms of engagement and turnover and, and absenteeism and all the things . Sharing the perspective and being able to build relationships with people at work so that we can truly connect is more than just good for the bottom line really, I think addressing like I said, what the surgeon general said is, is like a health crisis. Kyla Cofer: Yeah. It, it's a health crisis. Mm-hmm. We're experiencing that much loneliness and, and you know, there's something we said for boundaries at work, boundaries at work matter, and having personal work boundaries. They're important, but to be spending so much time with a group of people and not feel known by them, that can really do number on our mental health and mental wellbeing. Absolutely. Heather, I'm curious if there's a piece of advice that you've ever received or that something that maybe the best piece of advice you've ever received or maybe something that you wish you would've known when you were younger. It's kinda two seperate things. Heather Haas: Yeah, I think the best And she taught me as a very young girl, always surround yourself with people you can learn from. So I guess back to that theme of learning, right, that we talked about at the very beginning, that was such great advice because realizing that expertise and the wisdom in other people and just, just always trying to. Put myself in settings and in situations where there were role models, where there were people who had different perspectives, different backgrounds than I do. And to have this openness to that has really, I think, helped me navigate my career journey and help me evolve and make very positive change. So I've loved that advice. And then, I think you said something you, I, I wish I would've known younger. What I wish I would've known younger is probably the importance of being still. For people who are high acheiving and capable, and that's horrible., But you have to pause. There's power and a pause, and being still is so it's just so restorative for your mind, for your heart, for your spirit. And I think I had to learn that the hard way , and I think lot of people do.

Kyla Cofer: 38:00

Well, I think we're seeing this shift in our culture where we're starting to understand and be grateful for that power of stillness, or maybe that's just my age. In United States, we do emphasis on accomplishment, high achievement, forward motion and constantly moving forward, planning ahead Uhhuh. And so it's hard cause we've created that culture of that rest is for the week kind of thing, but Right. But it's not, it's never been that way. It's always been for strong. That's right. And so it's really good advice. Well, Heather is, this has been a great conversation. Is there anything you wanna make sure that our audience hears before we wrap up?

Heather Haas: 38:39

I, I would love, you know, for any of your listeners who maybe. There's a little spark of wow, I, I'd love to learn, grow, develop myself. We would be glad to offer a 50% tuition discount to any of your listeners who make their way to our website, www dot ADVISA advisa usa com and find their way to our emerging leader series. We have a wonderful learning experience for people who are, you know, more early career and exploring what it means to be a leader. So lots of good self-awareness. And some, some influence and connection skill building. So yeah, I would love any of your leaders who are, feel motivated to take a next step. We would be happy to offer them a really exclusive opportunity to do so at a, at a low cost with high value.

Kyla Cofer: 39:36

Well, that's awesome. That's really generous. Thank you Heather. And all that information will be available in the show notes. So thank you so much. This has been really great, and it's been great to get to know you and hear all about what you do. Thank you. Hey, thank you so much for listening. If you've liked what you heard and you want some more tools and resources to help you on your journey, go check out kyla cofer.com/free stuff.