Barbie: You Can Be Anything Artwork

Pop Culture By Volume

A general, culturally (ir)relevant podcast featuring two know-it-all know-nothings. We drink, we talk, and we're thirsty for more.

Pop Culture By Volume

Barbie: You Can Be Anything

August 09, 2023 • Zach and Daniel • Season 2 • Episode 11

Hello Barbies and Kens,

You guessed it, we watched "Barbie" and now we dish pink.

To get us going we sipped on some "Keep It Chill," a French Beaujolais Gamay.

What's up, party people?

Welcome back kens.

Welcome back to the pop culture by Volume podcast. Your source for pop culture and booze news. Today we will be discussing Barbie, the movie, and yes, we are Ken's that.

A cultural phenomenon.

That do podcast. Cultural phenomenon is sweeping the nation. If you have been anywhere in the past three.

Weeks even more.

You have seen people. Walking around and pink clothing ready to go see this? Yes, we did not do Barbara Heimer, although I've seen.

No, we did not.

But we will only be discussing Barbie we have. Crushed the Rose. In record time, so we've had to have moved on. We we brought the Rose in and to celebrate Barbie it is a pinkish wine.

But we we shouldn't reverse. Yeah, we weren't thinking.

We're not the best with.

No, but we're we're not gonna.

I am coming. But we are drinking a Beaujolais. Keep it chill. Available at grocers nationwide.

I think I've only seen it that.

At Rexall, fresco go to Duane Reade. Perhaps on the East Coast?

Apparently, according to this you get on drizzly.

Drizzly. Your source.

Your source of deliverable alcohol.

Your source for a Barbie adjacent content. Keep it chill. We took a quick sip before we started recording and decided the though all that didn't come out right. Although it's called a Beaujolais and it's made with the gamete grape, it had a little more tannin than we were expecting. A little higher ABV 13.5.

More full body than your traditional think.

Which I feel is is higher than Beaujolais traditionally is, but this is a new time. We were breaking new ground with grape and cinema Barbie, a pro feminist text. That merges with the commerce.

******** ********. It's a.

Two hour commercial 2 hour commercial for metal products.

Let's get into it. Starting right now.

Alright, this guy apparently was vinified four to five months in concrete tanks ready. I thought you already read.

I would assume would be either in concrete or steel. Yeah, I don't think it's.

No, it doesn't have the right.

Supposed to have the freshness. Yeah, not that vanilla, right that you get from buttery Chardonnay.

You're right, no vanilla, toasted, nothing.

We're going straight for the grape on this.

One grape and nothing but the.

Yeah, we're we're recording live. From the Mojo Dojo.

Casa House house, yeah.

Very masculine. Very patriarchy.

Drinking vino brewskis.

Give me those vino wines. Your thoughts on Barbie the movie?

Overall, enjoyed it, huh? Despite myself.

Oh yeah, you came in questioning wondering if you're like.

Well, not necessarily. Crushing big fan of Gerwig, Greta Gerwig, huge fan Gigi, huge fan since back in.

Love this love the jeans.

The day, geez. Yeah, huge fan of Ryan.

Can't go wrong.

Can't go wrong. Yeah, my questions arose more from the corporate marketing prior to the movie with their especially leading up to the movie with how many companies had this crossover stuff, right it was. Everything was ex Barbie, right? There was like cheese X Barbie blanket.

Oh, uh-huh. Yes.

Ex Barbie. Everything was ex Barbie, huh? Which I think, well, we'll go into more, but I think undercut a lot of the message.

In the movie, there's been a lot of there's. Been a space. Of movies based on corporate stories, the Tetris movie.

Right. Well, that one was went way. Off like the Tetris movie was. It was like the Weird AL movie where like it had the seeds of reality and just went bonkers with the story.

Yeah, yeah, there's the. Flaming hot Cheetos, right?

Ohh which is cause apparently a complete lie.

Fleet fabrication.

Right. BlackBerry and research in motion, I think.

Has that been done yet?

I think that came out.

Oh, it did I. Can really miss that one.

So that was uh, air. So a Barbie follows. Sort of. Not that it, not that. It copied it.

Doesn't mean how the story of Barbie and Barbie just exists.

No, but it is the corporate IP turned into film entertainment.

Oh, OK, yeah, yeah.

And as we have alluded to mentioned it, it was written and directed by Greta.

Gerwig and Noah Baumbach.

And well written by Noah Baumbach Cole Co, written by Noah Baumbach.

Not directing, yes.

Yeah, and Greta Gerwig has done a little women. And before that Lady. Lady Bird and Co wrote. Francis Hall with her. So I'll bomb back and started in that and I think she Co directed another movie earlier in her career that I can't remember and she was in. Greenberg, she was in. Somebody takes Hannah, takes the stairs.

She's like in the in the mumblecore community, in the in the indie scene.

She was originally. Uh-huh. Right.

And then she has moved on to.

Full, full dictation. Yeah, she's.

Like it's kind of like a tour and then. I think using Barbie as a launching pad because she's announced that she's going to do 2.

Narnia, right? Yes, yes. Which is now. What, like the fifth time they've done Narnia because they tried doing that that long ago? I remember correctly.

Well, they did some of the right like the witch and the wardrobe like they had the.

Trilogy like I want to say like 15.

Years ago, right? No, it wasn't that long ago.

Was it 15 years?

It was. I could be mistaken with the other one, that they did around the same time. Or I thought it was.

But anyway, semi recently, right? So it's like I think a a transition of sorts for her. Is in her. Bid and I think, she said in in recent interviews that she wanted to do.

Well, she said she wants to be a studio director, right? She's done with the indie.

World, right? Yeah, and.

She wants to be the next Patty Jenkins. My words, not hers. The next penny Marshall.

Schlemiel schemas. She's going to do Laverne and Shirley the movie with the thick.

Sure, somewhere in New York.

Hope it wasn't jersey people getting. Mad at us if it's.

Somewhere on the East Coast, one of the original colonies. One of the calling is colonialist.

Straight out of New Hampshire, that Penny Marshall. What were your thoughts? Overall, overall, how did you like?

It OK on a technical level and acting level, I loved it. The set design, the sound design perfection. I can't remember the Cinematographer's name very well known. Beautiful movie visually, but.

Not, but necessarily. I enjoyed, I think. I think Margot Robbie did a great job, absolutely playing a plastic. And I mean that is an actual positive and it kind of came off a little sarcastic, but that mean it sarcastically Ryan was again amazing I think he kind of stole the show Gosling, Ryan Gosling baby goose stole the show baby Goose Mama goose all the goose he's a king goose. I think he did. Another amazing job where he just like, fully went. Into the role. And did everything that was asked of him or whatever. I enjoyed the feminist message I enjoyed. Even the storyline was good. I enjoyed some of the jabs and and and whatnot that it even took at itself at Mattel, the corporate world. Even I when I say itself, even the portion was a part of the movie where like oh we it was like a a voiceover where, like, we understand that Margot Robbie is not the best, right? Dude, do this message about not being whatever.

Right. Right. You're attractive. Yeah.

Yes, so that. Was fun little jab that itself and whatnot. So I think all that stuff. I even liked America Ferrera.

Not like her. I generally don't. But I thought she did very good in. Superstar and not a fan. Even though her daughter was good, I don't know her name, but she did a good job being the daughter, right? Like a tween. I'm like, annoyed by you. Blah blah blah. Uh, all of the actors that thought did a magnificent job, all the side Barbies, all the side KENS. Oh, you know what? I. Did that's the other thing that I liked. Because historically, right and this has been documented or written about how Asian men were always not made to be like the leading men, they're always made to be more like the side character or to made fun of. So it was refreshing to see the the the counter can or whatever right the villain can if you. Will see you. As just being. And it wasn't even, like, highlighted, right? It was just the other. Was this an Asian man?

Attractive, right? It it didn't create a hierarchy or.

Right. Yeah, it was either you're attractive or you're not type of.

Deal or whatever.

Just like. Ryan Gosling Ken who does beach? He's like ohh, he's my competition.

Exactly why does. Barbie like you.

More yeah. Why can't you do flips and I? Can't, right? Yeah. So I enjoyed that level of equality, huh? So pretty, that's what I'm saying, like 90%. I enjoyed the movie. The problems that I had were with the the corporate branding of it all. It still came off as a whatever hour and 45 minute commercial. It even gave tinges of a 90s. Special episode. Thing, you know what I mean? Like it with that special episode, but like, I don't remember if you remember back in the 90s, sometimes they have these like after school specials that were like movie length. And they gave those vibes because a lot of the times those were also corporate sponsored because of whatever like rules they had because of the FCC that I think have now been dropped.

Right, like like Ninja Turtles, we had to have something informative for Animaniacs where they had. Like right? The state capitals or something?

Wheel of morality. Ohh.

Yeah, yeah. We live moralities turn, turn, turn. What is the lesson that we must learn?

But that's what I'm saying. So on just a movie technical level. Great direction. Great acting great. Again, set design, cinematography, sound, design. Everything but like it just it couldn't get past. Fully the corporate Ness of it all, this was maybe just a cynic in me. A lot of it was just to sell more Barbie to keep the IP going. And to some degree, I think that. Blunted a lot of it. For me, but I know we live in a world. World where that's fine. You know, the more corporate now that you are, it's like celebrated. Whereas we grew up in an era of like, that's the sellout. You don't do that. Right. So I don't know, I understand we're in a different world. I understand that we're now more like the more money you can make, whatever you do to make it is like a plotted.

Yeah, right. Boomers apparently hated the movie, but. So those are my general thoughts. I enjoyed the feminist message. I did. It was very much, and I don't think anybody hit it. I think Greta or anybody was like hiding it. It's very. Much feminism. One-on-one sure doesn't go into any like deep side angles or whatever. Feminism, the only the portion that I think they did highlight that other times they haven't or other movies or whatever. Is sort of the. The effect that it also has on. Men, which this did bring up right, you know, like how the patriarchy also is negative for men.

Oh yeah. Yeah, they gave Ken quite the spotlight. Yeah, showed. Some problems or issues that? A A man could go through and I think it was fairly generous to him. Instead of Ken has always been the punching bag in the Barbie universe, and they certainly made fun of him, but they also gave him a lot of pathos. And like, where where, where do I fit into this and.

He was surprisingly fair to him and, like, gave him a lot more screen time than I think an average movie would give a female who is there mostly for a plot. Device, right. Right. So I applaud Noah for for doing that.

Yeah, they definitely gave. Yeah, they gave. They did a clever thing. With the Ken, where again maybe the that is another plus, right? If this had been in a movie 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20, whatever. Maybe they wouldn't have done the Kent portion, but I did enjoy that, right? That they not only just talked about the male fragility. But also the the negative effects that this patriarchy has on men itself. Right? We have like whatever Ken saying like, oh, I didn't even really fall into this. I just thought it was about horses or.

Whatever, right?

Those are the best. Of being a can.

But I think to some degree, I think it cut itself in that line. When it then reverted back to like this is.

It the message.

Seeing muddled in terms of the genders or the sexes or whatever when then it just reverted back to like the Barbies have now retaken the land or whatever. And now, like Ken's go figure yourself out, which is fine. That's a great, that's fine. But I think when it turns into like, this is, you're still living Barbie land. You know what I mean? Barbies. The cans are the denizens of Barbie land, but now, Barbie. They're like, OK, we're back in charge. It it seemed to undercut the equality argument that it was going for.

OK. We can we can. Break that that down as we as we go. Through the plot.

Right, right. Yes, yes.

As there is one sure, sure, sure.

Yes, but those were my overall first thoughts.

I didn't mind the the 90s Ness, I think. Greta is around our age. She's a. A little bit about to turn 40, so not older by much and so it's nice to have a director who makes pop culture references that.

Not hugely, but yeah.

Directly toward our age and our demographic like. I mean, these might have been Noah jokes, but like talking about. Ken loving, Stephen Malkmus and giving you a little talk about like pavement and right and that kind of stuff we're talking about like, oh, you haven't seen.

The Godfather and some.

Ohh really quick? Yeah, that was one of my favorite parts of the movie. I had never felt so heard. In the movie. Then when they made fun of those Godfather Bros.

Finally or like.

Let me play guitar at you, right? Right.

Right. Yes, yes.

Yeah, that kind of stuff. And that was obviously attacking. Males yes. Also specific males. Certain certain certain types, but I think the kind of mansplaining, right, right, even if it isn't the like the film bro or the the music guy, the tendency to like. You haven't heard this? Ohh I'm. I'm amazing. Let me tell you and impress you. With my knowledge of this as well like ohh that's. Me like ohh, that's me. And it was like funny, but also cringey like I've never felt more seen. Yeah, but also I think I've, I've I've had that conversation. With with women before you know, like over explained stuff and like. Not specifically the Godfather, but. Like I'm very even fathering.

Right, right. Right. Right, right. Right. That's luckily yes. I would say I was raised in a very matriarchical family, so I feel like luckily I didn't sing.

At people you love terms of endearment. Did love.

Terms of endearment. I love all that stuff. I love the steel magnolias. Sure, that was my jam, not godfather. Working girl. I love the the coming of age stories told from a female perspective much more than the ones coming from the male perspective. Give me my girl traveling pants any day then and now that's my stuff.

But no, it's nice to have. A director and a writer of our generation make jokes that are very specific to our generation, and so if it did have that, like late 80s, early 90s after school, special thing about it, even though maybe. Was, too, like didactic, I don't think.

It was, I think, at the end it.

The last like half an hour got pretty.

Didactic, I still appreciate. That all the references and all the jokes were things that I enjoyed, things that I was into, things that I recognized, and it was the first time. I think that a movie. Referenced and spoke to things that. Were specific to me, like there's other movies that like, oh, in the 2000s. So it's like, I recognize that as being popular in the general culture, but it wasn't necessarily things that I was into. And then this was a very specific into my kind of hipster ish sensibility. And and that. Gave it a lot of goodwill. In my book and like. Whatever I I don't care. I can overlook some of the flaws. This was so specific and seemed so right to the type of person and the type of people that I hang out with and my like social. That I still enjoy the movie and then. The corporate aspect didn't. Bother me as much because it was. It's coming from Barbie made my Mattel look, I think I had enough context and realized this is going to be a corporate fund movie. Obviously it's going to be. You're not gonna make a a movie about Barbie. Given the green light by Mattel and have it be.

Well beyond green light, they were the ones who were like fishing it for the longest time.

A. A total. Right. Like indictment of the thing. Right. And I think given those parameters, she was still able to show some of the problems that people had with Barbie and given a feminist. Fatigue like with it. Gave with America ferrera's daughter.

Yes, but it gave it such like a.

I thought was too perfunctory like.

Yeah, it was like the daughter said, her rant, her spiel, and then just moved on.

And like we mentioned it. Let's move on, but.

I think also it. It although it is, I think ultimately a positive message for Barbie and Mattel, it's also. A movie about mothers and daughters, and whether Mattel and Barbie is a. Part of that. It talks about the relationships between mothers and daughters, mothers and children, the things that bond them. What it means to be a woman in the world? And they were able to talk about that and I think be very. Honest about that. And be very sincere about that. In corporate sponsored movie. And I think it follows in the the trajectory of like Greta, Garry's career and young women trying to find themselves in Francis.

Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah.

Labor. They definitely.

Ladybird little women.

Little women, and even though it is corporate sponsored. And is within this Barbie world. The theme, the Greta Gerwig themes still remain true and she was able to create.

Very powerful pathos, even within a corporate environment. And I didn't mind. The like. Didacticism of like the final speech at the end because I.

Think it was almost repeated like three times by two different characters was my issue, but I'm fine with one didactic speech.

But how often? Like there is 120 years of male dominated cinema and you have one movie that is written Co written? And directed by a woman. They have a platform. You want to say something about women and mothers and daughters? Take all the time, you.

Want I'm fine with the message and that too. I just think the way it was done was. Too heavy-handed. That's my argument. It could have been done more artfully. Maybe that was a studio thing where they, you know, like, Nah. Keep it dumb for the audience, which it almost felt like versus it came out very much. Tell the audience. Don't show the audience, which I can very much see being more sort of the corporate portion bearing down. On Gerwig, yeah. But 100%?

Should we should go. And yeah, agree.

With most of that, yeah, I just think. It's just. I don't know. But we can.

Yeah, let's treat you, breakdown the plot briefly.

Go. Let's breakdown. Yeah.

Well, even let's give a quick background. Right. OK. So Mattel had been trying to option this movie for a.

While anything, any of their IP, they're like Barbie. Let's see. OK.

They had made a deal with one of the studios that can't remember. Don't quote. Me. It might have been. Sony and they were the ones that were trying to do the Amy Schumer version that kind of fell apart anyway. So I think in Sony, whoever that studio was didn't actually end up doing anything right.

Yeah, that sounds right.

Reverted back to Mattel. I think Mattel reached out to Margo. Margo is like I'm interested, but I want Gerwig. On this. And I think there was even there's like a famous like now quote that she did in one of the early meetings where she said this is going to be. A billion dollar movie.

Yeah, yeah, and she said she just made that number up at the. Right, right. It seems like it's it's. Gonna it's it's.

Hit off this path.

Already 500 million, right?

And then when you consider that's, but that's 500 million just on the movie, if you were to consider all the merchandising and cross merchandising that's happened, who knows what that?

Number really is. Yeah, but yeah, apparently. I guess she wanted Gerwig, Gerwig said. I'll do it, but you got to get Noah on it. Noah agreed. I guess wrote the script and then the rest is history. Now we're to the movie now.

What's the movie? Yeah, but yeah, I think Margot Robbie was, was instrumental in.

Getting ohh for sure if this was a Schumer production I think it would have flopped.

Credit card rating.

And not have been even as nearly as deep as this was.

Margot Robbie as producer, I think was able to shield.

I'll let you. Yeah, yeah.

Gregorian or no Babak and like fought for their vision, so whatever they wanted to do.

She is behind it and like, well, that's what they. Want to do so if? If you're, if you want me to. Star in this, then you have.

To go with their vision. So the idea or the the kind of story behind Barbie movie, you start out with Barbie living in Barbie World.

Some which is you know. What's funny? That was like it brought in a lot. Of like semi philosophical. Concepts right. Because Barbie World is an actual world. Yes, that exist at the same time, there are world exists. So it's almost like the philosophical philosophical concept of. Possible worlds existing physically at the same time as our?

World Barbies do everything. Yes, they they are all things.

All happy all the time.

Yeah, they are scientists. They are presidents.

Presidents, ISA Ray plays the president. Anything that you can imagine? Yeah, it's Barbie.

There's a Barbie for it. And they can do it. construction workers, everything. And Barbie wakes up has a great day. Doesn't think too much beyond what the day will bring. But then she starts getting some intrusive thoughts.

Right. Second, philosophical concept, existentialism. Right. Do I exist? Am I going to?

Right. It's about dying. It's about death. That's very strange. And then you realize that there is an outside world. And Barbie also realizes that there is an outside world. And she has to travel to that world because she discovers that to mend. Yeah, that.

Whoever played with you.

Yes, was depressed, upset, angry. Not doing well, Barbie travels to the outside world to try to fix this person. She meets America. Well, Ken. Oh, yes.

Uninvitedly he joins the law.

Yeah, yeah. Ken played by Ryan Gosling, is obsessed with stereotypical bar was her was her Barbie type.

Right. Because he exists. She was. Yeah, stereotypical bar.

Yeah, every Barbie has a thing margaroli plays.

She's just a straight up regular, that's.

What's this stereotypical Barbie?

Your that's what she.

Was that this? What's that?

Kept on calling herself.

I don't think that's an official.

Name, but within that that.

The movie in the movie, that's what she.

Was, yeah, there's like a.

Called herself, yes.

Kind of prototypical what you think of Barbie. And they go.

To the real world, which is another philosophical concept right of the of the.

Yeah, like the Aristotelian ideal.

Yeah, I guess America Ferrera and her daughter, who is like a Gen. Z girl who is right and I think was like her and her group of friends were supposed to be.

The Super mean. Ohh yeah. Yeah, OK.

I think Sasha is actually a Pratt.

Well, yeah. Well, the brass walls did have. Movies, but they were not. They were like more like the original Barbie movies like straight to videos, have good deal, yeah.

Right. So America Ferrera and her daughter go back. To Barbie world.

Well, first Ken's in the real world, learns about patriarchy and thinks it's all about horses, and he's loving being in the real world.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

World where everybody loves him in the Barbie world, he's ignored here because he's like a white sis male. People just love him or he interprets it that way, right? He gets really off on the fact that a woman asking what time?

It is asking what time it was because he was largely ignored as Ken is and Barbie Barbie.

The world, yeah, yeah.

And so then Barbie comes back, discovers that Ken has taken over.

Yeah, he's ruined. Barbie land turned it into a bro patriarchy.

Not even like a not even like a regular Texas patriarchy. He's broad it out. Yeah, he's. Casa what the Ken Casa have?

Mojo Dojo, Casa house.

That's right. And then they.

Have to restore balance to the world and learn some important life.

Lessons and not only has Ken turned that into the Mojo Dojo because.

House he's also somehow converted the one strong female Barbies into these very subservient. Sort of. You know, like lacking agency serving men. Yes, they somehow has brainwashed them, right? There was a I don't know if he even is a joke. There's a comment in the movie that I then later read. Some people didn't have a great reaction to, or I think it was America, Ferrera says. Ohh him bringing patriarchy is like when they brought disease to the native lands. There was no natural defenses to it for us to. Come to it. I don't know if it was a joke, but it was a metaphor. There was some little back minor backlash. Yeah, yeah. But it's basically like that patriarchy is introduced to a place where they've never heard of it. And now they've sort of been brainwashed to be. Leave it. And now we have Barbie America Ferrera, her daughter, and weird Barbie trying to restore back.

Kate Mckennon's Kate McKinnon.

And one of the best roles she's had in like the last like 8 years at least.

I don't know if she's done a. Ton of movie work, right, I think.

She tried and it just didn't hit. Yeah, but she did phenomenally.

Staying the same kind of in her, maybe pigeonholed lane as being the oddball.

Yeah, the weird Barbie. Right. But now she had oddball with like. Some some purpose and. Heft to it. It wasn't just oddball. For oddball sake, yeah.

Right. And then they they figure stuff out and there's a portion when Ken and Barbie go into the real world that I think. Slow down a little bit like I appreciated Barbie world with the with the the creation, Greta Gerwig says.

She was very influenced by Gene Kelly musicals.

And so it informed.

Like that first was 1/2 movie. Yeah. Yeah. It's very visually stunning and amazing.

The visuals were there's a lot of practical effects. And you're very aware. There, that's filmed in the studio. And there's artificiality. There's matte painting in the background of of the mountains. Yes, they go into the beach, and it's they have paper mache waves that Ken runs into when they go in between worlds, the transition between the two.

It's like the desert and the like, the the snow and.

All that I would waves at the beach and.

Right, right, right. There's snowmobile.

And so that's when like the production design really comes to the fore. And you you understand that? I don't know just how much thought was.

Brought into the world and the kind of aesthetic that she was trying to create with.

Like how you mentioned the the artificiality of the Barber world, because it definitely obviously was, but it was it didn't come off like cheap.

You know what I mean? Yeah, it was like a very thoughtful. Artificiality, right? It was like a real artificial at the same time.

Somehow it felt, yeah, it was. I don't know how to describe it where it felt like. Like a movie from the 50s or 60s where they used all practical. And it it felt like they put a lot of time and effort into creating it. But it also. You you understood that it was artificial, but the artificial. Was a part of the aesthetic because it was a fake produced world that kind of like existed in imagination.

Right, yes. Didn't look faith. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Almost like difficult those early.

Thing to create.

What was it like Rudolph the Red nosed reindeer, but to a higher technological degree.

A little bit, right, right, right.

And it and it ate it and. And the goal and the message of of the movie, yeah. A lot of. There's a lot of chatter on the right about how this is a movie about about betas.

It was so ridiculous.

About it is like anti male is like destroying the fabric of society.

Right. I heard it so far that someone said like no. Eve came from Adam. You know the woman is to serve the man. They were so hell bent on the fact that Ken was created to to serve Barbie. Like they took it all the way back to biblical times or whatever. It was so crazy the backlash.

Yeah, the, the, the, the.

Like it's just highlighting what girl was the the fragility.

Yes, it's just. Ridiculous. This is a movie.

Be based on a. Toy and you're treating it as if it's. An attack like premeditated propaganda to destroy the United States.

Right. Yeah, if.

There were people who had like arguments against some of the messaging or the quality of the movie. I might not agree with them. I was like. OK, sure. You have your opinion? I don't agree with it. But then to go into the far like conspiracy, this is meant to destroy the.

Fabric of our society.

Right, it's it's all the destruction of American bringing like. Right messaging.

Which I don't see how, but yeah.

And it it's just like so extreme. I don't know how. Anyone. We want to subscribe to those theories.

I don't understand them, and even worse, none of them saw the ******* movie.

And you can't like even take a joke. Like you can't. Take some light ribbing.

Right. Well, now when it's towards the males, you can rip all you want at women. Yeah, you know. But when it comes back at you. Ohh no, it's the wind of the world.

They're they're flipping ridiculous. Everything we know about the world they're destroying the sanctity of marriage and relationships. It's ridiculous. Sweet. Fancy Moses.

That's one of the issues that I think I have generally with the movie is if it wasn't for those crazy *****, this would just be a whatever movie too. You know what I mean? Like if it wasn't for this world that we live in that this hugely like I had a very vocal anti woman type of world we live in. I think that's another like the movie it's in and of itself, it would have been largely ignored. I think. I think part of the thing that has succeeded it is unfortunately. What is up again? Which is all these crazy people we just talked.

Yeah, well, it's it's stating messages that I.

Think but the the message of the stating aren't revolutionary. They've been talked about for like written about. For what like? Almost the last 100 years.

They aren't accepted.

They're not accepted by certain folk. With a very vocal folk, but. I still think are very on the smaller end.

I think we'd like to think of. Them as the minority.

I still think they are. I just think they're very vocal right now and in the in this degree and or in this this aspect for this topic, for other topics, I think I agree they're they're probably bigger than we. Think, but I think for this topic. But then I think too this is the other thing got me thinking too, which is another plus to the. I don't know how much progress we have made. Even in women's right, and I don't want to speak for women because I'm not a woman, sure, but it I'm just seeing from based on some of the things that I'm seeing being posted or written, a lot of the people who are watching the movie are in it just. For that artificiality. Ohh Barbie. Not so much the message. Right. They're leaving the movie for getting the message because they wore their cute pink outfit. Right. And that's all they want.

I'm I'm hoping that they got incepted a little bit and some of the the feminist messages got through to them in some way, and I think this is going. To end up being. Like a foundational text for a lot of girls like I love the Barbie movie and that the messages will get through to them and then in future generations, the things that people. Are ignoring now will be. Accepted and just a part of society and it won't seem so revolutionary. And although there are. Old messages. There's still, I think, a lot of people being. Exposed to them for the first time and a lot of people. Obviously having strong negative reactions, yeah.

So they never even seen.

Yeah, and it it just kind of reminds me of when I read. Oh geez, I can't remember the name. The boys the souls of.

Anyways, written in 1900. And it was. Arguing for the. The rights of. Black people in the United States and equality and I read it. And it was like the same things that we're arguing now, but it was written in. 1900, right. Yeah. And so I think.

There's going to. Be that.

There's a lot of stuff that. Even though they're like feminist arguments that have been made for a hundred 150 years, right, our culture is such that it's still new and novel to people, and there's still a lot of people that are pushing against it. And I think there still needs to be direct arguments, even though it might seem. Too obvious or or too in your face. For for some people, I think it still needs to be said, and at the end of the movie. Barbie has this realization and it takes place in a void which is talking to real Perman who plays the greater of Barbie with IRS problems and. While artistically I think I would have liked a more subtle way of bringing up those topics. I think the direct address is needed. And I think it was still done in. A movie like it, it followed the the arc of the character and she's coming to this realization where she realized that there is more than. What she has lived in, and she is capable of so much more, and that there is more out there and complexity to the world and that she can succeed in that world. And I still think it was. And emotionally powerful moment in the movie, even if it. Might seem. On the nose, I think that it needs to be two on the nose and this time because it isn't. Something that's readily accepted.

Yeah, I'll agree. With you, with the on the nose, I just think. In terms of even I'm. Glad you brought that up. The root the, the the Perlman portion. Because when we first see her and it's not explicitly stated, I think contextually. You already knew who that was. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, that almost felt like another. Studio thing like. Highlight who that is. And make her say a speech. Because I think if they had kind of merged the two times that she popped from the movie, the almost the mysterious portion. And it, given her like a little. Speech there. Before she sent off Robbie to the how to get out. Of the building, yeah. That would have been, I think, stronger and better. The fact that they show her if you're a thinking person, you already know who that is, right? But then they bring her back. Even though they've already sort of explained a whole bunch of stuff that she's about to. Re explain, yeah. And then they have like that God scene moment, right where? Everything's like. Pitch white and she says a speech like usually.

That's where the God character right in other movies or whatever.

Right, right, right, right.

It just keeps on, it keeps on repeating and repeating. I do see your point and I agree with your point that we do unfortunately live in an age where that kind of maybe to some degree has to happen where people are just, I don't know, ignoring or not listening. But even then, like if they're not hearing it the first time, what's going to make it they're going to hear it. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th time.

Maybe it's not made for those.

People like, but I think it's made even for the people who are fans of the movie, not necessarily the the detractors or like the, you know, the neck beard, Neanderthals. But I think to the point that I was kind of saying like how many people are actually even leaving with the message versus just like, oh, I saw the Barbie movie. Did you see it as great Barbie, Barbie, Barbie. I'm wearing pink. You love Barbie, right? And I just think mixed in with the current time that we live in and not to be like. A person who's, like trying to argue for the control of bodies or being like some kind of like out of time, boomer or whatever, cause I'm not even a boomer. But we live in a time where, like, especially with social media. Everything is based on how many likes you're getting. What is your influence? Blah blah blah. So I think that even if you love Barbie. And even maybe even if you agree with the message of Barbie, what does it mean when you're in the real world and you're a tween or a young adult? Who's just doing? Hyper sexualized things for those likes. You know what I mean? What is the point then? Of you fighting or saying oh, Barbie and the women this and women, that or even men, this are men that. And then you're going into the real world. And it's all like out. The window you.

Have you have a little more knowledge? You have a little more empowerment. You have a little more idea of what you're capable of and that you aren't are not dependent upon anyone's.

I think that's the undercut, though, and this is not a a even a criticism of the movie or girl work. I think the criticism of the real world, you undercut your yourself because that is the message and you should believe that, right? But then you go straight to the post. You go straight to TikTok, you go straight to Instagram stories or whatever. And you show me. You know. Oh, I saw Barbie in my pink bikini.

Which has happened. I so it's like I. Don't know we're we're in a losing.

But you can't. You can't. You can't be all things to all to all people.

I guess it's a cynic in me, right? But I I guess right? But I'm just I guess that's argument like you're you're hammering the message, but for what reason? Those who are going to listen are either already in agreement. But we'll get it the.

First time you're like it's a preaching to to the choir situation. But because Barbie is so popular that there's it's going to touch everybody, right? Everyone's going to see it. And hopefully in that process, people who might not be hip to the message.

Oh, so like one of. Those like if you change one mind, you change the world type of deals.

Maybe or just the people who love Barbie. And maybe aren't down with, like, feminist. Thought and theory. We'll see it and we will get something. A little bit out of it. I mean, ultimately I think the movie. And all movies are. Entertainment 1st and I.

Yeah, they're trying to entertain people, keep them captivated.

OK, sure. And then maybe some OK. Yeah, I agree that some of the audiences might be. Different, but OK, yeah.

And then there is there is a message there. And it'll always be there cause it's in.

The movie, I agree, but some of it. Is more subtle, sure.

Hopefully some of the the the message for people who came in just purely because I love Barbie growing up. We'll get a a little a little trace of that, but I don't, I don't know. If Greta gerwig. Created and wrote the movie with the idea of.

Ohh I agree, I don't think.

Right. I don't think she's trying to Trojan horse.

You could. I don't think.

She could no right, but that was my argument about the corporate that movie would never be made, if that's what she was trying to do.

They had enough. From what I've read, with the way she portrayed the Mattel right?

Boardroom, who are all male and idiots, right.

Right. They only agreed with it because it was so broad.

So I think given the constraints of what she was working with within this extremely corporate. Environment, right? Which?

Is why make a movie outside of this? So then you.

Could do that and like I don't.

Think if Greta gerwig. Wanted to make. A feminist message movie. Out of Mattel like I have this idea for this story, whatever it would like. Either it would not get made or barely get made, and maybe a tiny portion. The population would see it, but because. It's attached to Barbie. Millions of people are going to see it. And I think the reach is greater than if she did her own pure vision without Mattel, yeah.

For sure, the reach is greater, but then what is the reach you're reaching? You're now not greater.

You're Jack reaching. I completely agree with that, but I guess you're also then by expanding the reach, it is a balance, right? You're also bringing in. Like, hey, it's. Cool that this is corporate feminism. You know what I mean? It's like, who are your bedfellows? I guess type of argument.

Well, I mean, I'm yeah, I mean, ultimately, I think Mattel's the big winner here.

Ohh for sure. Yeah, it's not feminism. It's not the left or the right, it's capitalism.

But it's it's, you know, the the art versus commerce. Like, OK, the Medicis.

I guess I'll. Yeah, yeah.

Right, like they all trading family.

They did, right, but they funded all these arts.

And blah, right?

So yeah, how does it? It no least.

True, they always the the rich are always the patrons, right? But they don't always control the message as a thing, they just happen to ohh. I like that. Give that ****** some money. Now this now we're getting to the world now. Which that's a very good point. I even think about this until right now. They are now controlling also the message. Not only are they giving money to the arts. They're controlling them. Yeah, because it's the first time. Or it seemed like they had this much influence. On the making of a major motion picture. Not just like a a straight to DVD or a straight to streaming or something where it was, you know, like bad CGI Barbie, you know, stop. Fake, stop. Motion, whatever it was, whatever it is, this is like. Top stars, top directors, top writers, top staff, top everything.

But it's all stemming from this corporate overlord.

But I think as a. And 1st foray into. Major foray into a corporate sponsored. I think there's still a lot of positive. Messaging in it. And it sets the bar very high, so you're. Not going to get hopefully. Some D level purely corporate weird animated thing like previous Barbie movies, where where it's just like I'm in Playland.

Like in in the future surely.

Right. Right. And so. Whether the rest of the movies will live up to. That like Lena. Dunham's Poly pocket, right. There's at least a precedent that shows like this is what you can do, even within a corporate environment. It might not be ideal, but you can do. You can make an extraordinary movie that lots of people love. Critics and the audience and still get, well, a personal message. That's true to your your vision. And hopefully the movies. We'll get to shoot some ladders movie.

Through a feminist. Right. They can or Marcus land.

And maybe, like marked Marxist lens.

Good luck. UM, yeah, I mean again, right? Overall, I like the movie. There's not much I can say negative. About it, right. I wish Mattel wasn't as involved or hadn't made, or he's gonna make so much money off of. But I guess that's that's part of the the fear of the future. How much more now are other companies or IP's going to be like, oh, I can control this. This can come from us, not just the. Studio or whatever. And now they're going to think like, oh, yeah, dumb Mattel. They gave them too much. Leeway, let me get a lesser person.

I'm sure that that'll be the that will happen as well, like the Crossfire movie.

Who knows what will happen.

Don't get caught in it, yeah. Well, I guess they kind of already tried with some of that stuff, right? They didn't have specifically rock EM sock or they did, right? It was like a rock. Em sock em robot.

Right. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, that that didn't have any like philosophical themes over it. What I thought was funny too. Overall, not just the movie, but maybe even just society. Guys is like how back and forth Barbie goes. And its stature in society, because I remember, like, almost every year they released an article about how the measurements of Barbie in real life don't exist. And that would be impossible.

And she'd have breasts the size of, like Texas or something. But now we're living in. It's almost like Bizarro world, whereas now is the revision. Barbie is now a feminist icon, and now the people who previously defended Barbie are now anti Barbie and the. People who were. Like maybe not even anti, but critical of Barbie are now. Go, Barbie. Oh. Yeah, it's it's a strange world we live in and I don't know. I mean, Barbie as a toy, learning about his history since his movies come out is interesting, especially in terms of how they said, like, there was the first space Barbie before the actual astronaut Barbie.

The first Barbie Playhouse. Didn't even have a kitchen, stuff like that. Right, that was technically. Ahead of its time? Yeah, but it was still. Like, again with the movie in the vein. Watch Barbie. Good show good. Great acting. Overall, at the very least, it spurns conversation, which I think is it's been gripping as itself, right just about is itself a reason why this movie is so good.

Check it out. Yeah, ignore my.

Give him a tell some bucks.

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