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Pop Culture By Volume

Oppenheimer: A Movie for All Seasons

October 09, 2023 • Zach and Daniel • Season 2 • Episode 14

On this episode we discuss Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer.
But before that we discuss the passing of Michael Gambon and our trip to Hollywood to see Oppenheimer in IMAX 70mm at the TCL Chinese Theater.

And to get us started we enjoyed a bottle of De Fermo's "Concrete" Rosato. This was a surprising wine - a biodynamic Rosato of 100% Montepulciano. The wine if from the Abruzzo region in Italy. Visit your local wine shop and see if they have it, or ask if they can order it.

Enjoy!

Hello and welcome to popular by volume. Your source for pop culture. And alcohol related news. Thank you for joining us. We are unofficially sponsored this week by a lovely Italian wine. De fermo.

You have to say, like the Italians.

Oh God, they're fair. Well, it's. What is it multiple piano?

That's what we figured out from the yes, their.

Website. It's an organic wine made with. Native and spontaneous, spontaneous.

Yeast. Yeah, in a concrete cells.

Yeah, it's engine concrete, unfined, unfiltered, juicy.

Just like this.

Just that's why we picked it. We like that juicy goodness. Yeah. Get a good, get a good slip on Mike for the people. Ohh. Beautiful. What a beautiful song.

That's good stuff, yeah. Look at Sweet Grape slapped on a rock stuck in your mouth.

Gorgeous poetry. So top of the show, of course, we always have to go over our. Orbits as one does, unless there's any other.

You know has been.

Slow news and unofficial news and just some just some jibber jabber to lighten the mood before we go straight dive.

Straight into death.

Ohh what was that?

I am become death.

Destroyer of worlds.

Right. I guess the.

Hint hint. We're gonna be talking about Oppenheimer. Buddhist Sanskrit, right?

Sanskrit. Yeah. Get in. Didn't didn't do English. Well, they're English. Not so good.

They don't talk time. They don't talk, talk good Jack. No, I think they meant to be like that, right? Or the translation was like that for for a reason. Yeah, they know. There's other ancient poets.

Yeah, I'm sure.

I bet it sounded different. Back in those times, maybe more lyrical than the.

English. Oh sure. Well, we'll get into that. It's going to be a heavy Sanskrit episode just. For all you.

Listening love languages, yeah.

So I think only one person.

Well, one person of big importance. Yeah, especially in the last 20 years. Sure. Yeah. When the when those movies.

Came out Dumbledore himself, Michael Gambon, Dumbledore 2.

Oh, that's right. The first one died as the curse of Dumbledore. Don't play dumbledore. If you want to die, if you don't.

Want to die? Poor Jude Law.

Well, the first one was.

They always happen in threes, they say, right?

3 double doors.

Michael Gambon, 82.

Ohh a young 82. Huh. He was pretty spry.

Well, yeah, because he was a wizard.

That he's gonna come back to life even stronger.

Maybe. Maybe. Well, he didn't in the books or the movie.

Hi, Devin. And I'm thinking of Gandalf, yeah. He came back white.

Bearded Wizards, easy to be confused.

Yeah, I think their faces look the same too.

Yeah, we can't tell him to the beer, but they like that old British man, yeah.

Shaggy phrase and big nose. Right. What's his name? The other guy? Ian McKellen.

You have to be to be a. Wizard. That's power.

I guess you gotta have a booming voice.

Proboscis. That's the secret to the Wizard's power. That's how we stopped them from passing. Walked in with his nose it. Wasn't his staff at all?

The nose nose that's really popped out right when you needed him in the. Right spot. Followed his nose.

Too, can't see him.

And nothing on.

Dumbledore. Nope. Yeah, I did. You like the Harry Potter movies. Did you watch them? All. Did you read the books I.

Read like one or two of the books. Did you draw on a?

Did you draw on a a lightning bolt scar on your forehead? No.

Never. I was way late to the series books and movies, right? Didn't care for the whole phenomenon. What a great I'm glad you do it. No, not him, but the whole series or whatever. But anyway, I eventually read I want to say like two of the first books that I got. It was too much, was boring and dumb, and then I didn't watch. No. Then I watched the movies later. They were OK. The later ones were better than the first ones.

Yeah, only the kids could really act in. The first few.

No, but yeah, I was OK. I mean, I just find the correct kind of stories so dumb. It's one of those. Like, if anybody just like, talk to each other, the whole thing would be wrapped up and done pretty quickly. Yeah. It's just like done decision after.

Dumb decision to. Keep it going and it's like it's not realistic.

Oh, there's a fantasy novel, right? That's. That true?

Part of it I've seen other fantasy novels that weren't so like eye rolling eye roll inducing.

Is it because they're kids?

I don't know. No, cause the adults are just as dumb. Have you read or seen the book or read?

The movies haven't read any of the books I've seen. All the movies. Umm yeah, another professor seemed to have known that dark magic and whatnot were.

Even though I had just gone through it. Like not that long ago.

Oh, so you know the chronology.

Well, it ended when Harry Potter was born and then Harry Potter at the start of the series was like like 12 years old or something. So 12 years and they had mass like, no, I don't remember. Yeah, exactly.

Have any of the Potter kids like memorialize him in a tweet or X or whatever? They're. Called these days.

I think so. I didn't. I didn't look into it. Listen, the stars. Remember Michael Gambon. I'm sure they said something.

Do we know the? Cause of death?

The age 82 could be anything.

Yeah. Did Voldemort come back and?

I'm sure Ray fines was.

You know, expel your on me or whatever.

Expel a salami. Expected us.

Well, they was the ones were the ones that killed people they weren't supposed to say that the Death Eaters. Were always going around, right? Abracadabra. That's that was the one of the ones that you were never supposed to do. That was bad magic. Dark magic. Sorry.

And I worked at Debra.

Ask the ban. Yeah, Arkham Asylum, which I wonder. She just stole that, huh? What are the chances that the prison for the worst of the worst?

Also starts with.

I think she's OK. Ask about.

Ask a ban Arkham. Ask a. Ban. That's pretty close. Is, I think she stole it. But they're.

It's not a, it's not an asylum.

Mostly parties. Pottery stolen anyway, right. Like the Jesus story turned into Wizards.

It's it's not like Stephanie Meyer, where she had a weird dream about vampires.

No, it's not to. Like to that level. But I mean like the story is your general, like kind of Jesus story.

Is some kind of savior? Yeah. Kind of time.

That started with Jesus.

Maybe you ripped it off?

There was no one before him.

It's gotta be someone else who wanted to save the.

Not anymore. I don't want to save the earth. He was saving souls or whatever.

Blue background. Flew backwards around the earth to turn back.

That was the flash.

I love those Superman.

They may have both done it. Ohh that was Superman, yeah.

To prevent Lois from.

Flash in the comic books. Anyway, has also run back.

Have to turn back. Time. Yeah, man. Ezra Miller could what you could.

Do though, right, I wonder.

From the reals.

I guess not. I don't wonder. But that doesn't even make sense scientifically how running backwards would turn back time, it would all it would do would turn the Earth off its axis. If I just. **** everything up. It wouldn't turn back time. You're. Not running on time.

Goes so fast, uh? It would actually do.

It I don't know. Because that would then you're saying that time only exists on Earth, but nowhere else. Because he's not turning the universe back.

I don't care about the rest.

Of you now everybody on a sink. When the aliens come back, they're like, wait. A minute. Something's changed.

We're 5 minutes.

Late for the invasion? Exactly.

We must be at the wrong spot. We're not even. Maybe they're coming to save us. We're like, ohh. Maybe.

I'll be the place to protect us, like, oh, man. We're too late. For the battle, let's just go home.

There's a backwards running man's. Got it.

Well, for our main feature, so you know. Time is is relative. As we all know, yes, flat circle. As Einstein first proposed.

Are you on his train and you're looking out the window? Right the the how time is.

Relative, I thought it was like the spaceship and the like twins or something. And then one travels at light speed and then he comes back.

That was an Einstein. I thought that was someone else's. Yeah. Einstein was the one about being on a train.

I forgot the rest. Of it, I just remember you. On a train for some reason.

Like the bands you, you're going to.

Meet. Yeah. Oh, that one. Yeah. Yeah. Not not the.

Virginia's the one and only. Yeah. Ohh yeah mid.

The one to Georgia midnight train.

With Gladys Knight? Yep, and her. Pips her pip cousins well because time is relative. Are we? Are we late to reviewing this movie? Are we early to reviewing this movie? Who's to say right? I think we're right on time.

It's a chain reaction of time.

We're we're talking about Oppenheimer, the movie that. Came out. Robbie Jane. Three months ago. Roughly. Maybe, maybe. Who's who's to know time is. That was relative. We established that I did my due diligence, saw the movie twice for you, dear listener.

One regular one in the format as intended. We did a field trip.

As intended. Yeah. We went. Yeah, we can talk about our beautiful.

Yeah. Our, our.

Beautiful visit to beautiful Hollywood.

Downtown Hollywood, Hollywood and Highland, home of Wahlburgers the exclusive West Coast location. Found in no other area.

West of the Mississippi.

Uh yeah. Hollywood's just a weird part of town.

It always has been. Yeah. It's not that they. Make it out to.

Be maybe in the 50s it was.

Yeah. Ohh. When it was first made.

Yeah, it was like decent.

I could see you then.

And then maybe in the 60s it was OK, I think the.

Well, it was a bit more OK, but I think yeah, maybe. But it was still had the you got the Madison crowd hanging around.

Late, yeah, yeah. But they weren't. On the Boulevard, they were dressed up like Iron Man.

Ohh that no no no they. Not doing that.

Were but no they. They were up in the in the valley, right? They were in the the caves in the spawn ranch.

Yeah, well, they, yeah. They they would come down right to like recruit, sure and then they go off to. Yeah, their rural, whatever. My rural. Yeah.

Yeah, I was. I was chilling at the mall. For a little.

Ohh yeah, you walked for some reason and 90 degree heat.

For a little bit, yeah, that was close enough. It was under 2 miles. Could do this.

Right in the mid afternoon. Fun. No, it was the movie was at.

Too late morning wasn't.

It I think so, yeah, late morning.

There was the marine layer hadn't burned off.

Yeah. Yeah, right.

You had to have left by like the peak heat at 1:00.

Well, I need some time to cool off so.

I went to the mall. Ohh yeah. You checked out the new? What's it? Called the exposition or. What's it called position.

Ovation, ovation. Yeah, it used to be. Hollywood highland. Yeah. Which is just the corner that it's on.

Right. They got rid of all the elephants. And Siberian what? What was Babylon? Babylon. Yes. Yeah, Samaria.

It was. Supposed to be modeled after the DW Griffith set that was built on sunset and. Western. Yeah, I thought it was a lot.

Of the set pieces got just moved and. Turned into decor I don't have.

Those things survives. Ohh yeah.

Oh, OK, it would just uh.

They got rid of all that nonsense.

Yes, nothing. Now it's even worse than before than to throwing an arc. There's an arch, I mean and.

Then arch and arch. Ohh no, that was always there. But they got rid of all.

Carvings are that we supposed to be in it, so that thing's there and it's just this.

Right, yeah. Now is his dumb lit arch Dumber? Ovation doesn't ovate about well. I would not stand.

I think they got rid of a lot of the stores and they transferred that over into office space.

Oh, I didn't know.

That some of them. Yeah, I think on the upper levels, so there's.

Are people actually renting it?

There's less mall, I don't know.

Huh. The CBK still there?

No, I. Oh, I think so. The CPK, the the fancy bowling place. Lucky star.

There's a. Shoe palace.

For a minute, there was a.

Victoria's Secret that's still there.

Oh, I don't know about. That one it. Was a very famous sushi man. Like from Japan, who set up in like the corner of that joint. And like like.

A lucky strike.

No. Of the we used to be the Hollywood Highland. Ohh. I don't know if he remained there during the ovation or period, but it was like the he was like a renowned sushi chef for whatever reason, opened up shop in.

There. And he wasn't in LA before it. Wasn't like matsuhisa.

No, I don't think so. And it was like one of those like they were like. I've see type. Of deals and it was hard to get a ticket.

Right, right. Like there's zero type.

Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. But I'm not sure if. He's still there or not, OK. Did you happen upon him?

Didn't look like.

I did not. I did not see any sushi a a man pressing rice.

Did you happen to master? Delicately hidden.

Yeah, yeah. You're seeing that that zero dreams.

Of sushi have not. Yeah, I heard. It's almost like a horror documentary, though, right? Because of how hard he is. On his kids. Yeah. The son does most.

It seems like the sun is really there's two of them. One he likes more than the. Right, right. And then he's just like, yes, Father. And he's, like, pressing the rice every morning. Yeah. Going to the fish market. Hmm.

As he's miserable.

It's just like faster.

So even though Jiro dreams of it, the kids are is there nightmare? His dreams are nightmare.

And yeah, I sat there a while, caught my breath, cooled down. Took in some tourists, see.

Tons of tourist.

Still see what they were all about. Yeah, they were all going toward. The view of the Hollywood. Sign and taking photos of that.

But then if you go up there and then you look down, it's just at that like bus drop off point or where you get picked up for the Hollywood Bowl, right. So that's not going to look at but off Yonder mount Mount Lee beckons. I think it's a an anniversary of someone the 100th anniversary of the.

Right. Of the sign. Yeah, 100 years already. Huh. Of hollywoodland?

Yeah, Hollywood, 100 years of.

Hollywood land, the first major realtor push to advertisement. Yeah.

Turned cultural icon.

You would have thought. How much? That was his success, it would have done it to other places, like every time they made a development, you know, like Temecula land, come out here to Beaumont land. If I become a. ****** land developer. Uh-huh. I'm just gonna do that to everywhere I go. Ohh, something land.

Well, Caruso kind of got that with his. He has a street, at least a little little. One thing, one of the little streets that go into.

The Groove or Americana? Maybe both. Ohh I would have doubted that narcissistic *******. And we'll buy the mayorship.

Good guy, good guy, misunderstood.

Yeah, right, misunderstood. No way misunderstood genius. Guy ruins everywhere he goes. Sameness galore. Love those fountains. Yeah. Of their.

Michael Bublé of the place. They need a little more bubble in.

Hollywood, like bass blasting through this.

Yeah, clean it up.

Random speakers that are hidden. Well, if you want to clean someone up, yeah. Or place a blast bubble. Everybody would just run bubble.

We got into that that man's Chinese. Yes. And beautiful theater snack. Bar kind of.

Average. Yeah, needs some juice. Some juice to this and don't hide. The bar. Up in the corner.

Orthostatic in theme with the rest of. It it's just like.

It was very drab.

Yeah. And then the bar should be central feature.

I happened upon it by accident.

It's practically like a downstairs with the bathrooms.

And yeah, no, it's not even. It's not even nice. It's like a makeshift bar where it had maybe a couple bottles and a beer.

A lot of. A lot of a lot of movies. Was just like. Yeah. Clear jugs with different colored liquids and yeah.

That's an excuse on it. But we had to watch it here and there because it was, uh, nearest place and one of only two that was showing it in 70 millimeter. IMAX. Yeah, as Mr. Third Christopher Nolan.

I don't think it's as Sir is not united.

As future Sir Christian.

Would be noted or I don't even know what. The knight. Is the graduation. Right. Oh, that's.

Why he could be a commander of something or other.

Ohh yeah, Master and Commander of cinema. Scorsese not, said he.

Fighting the pirates.

Nolan and the the safety.

Brothers, I was. Oh, yeah. Really quick. So for some reason, I don't know if he was interviewed, but he was saying that they need to save cinema from the the comic book. Movies. Yeah. Yeah. And he specifically named himself Nolan, which was funny, given Batman and.

The Saffie brothers. I didn't even know they made movies. So that one of them is in movies.

Uncut gems, right? And then? Good boy.

The the, the, the. The karate movie.

With Robert Pattinson.

Right. That one, yes.

And I think another one. But then Benny's like moving into acting like I don't know. If I. Wanted to act right, it's. Like you're a little late on. That one, Marty, you gotta you.

Got people who are.

So actively. Yeah, he's too busy.

Shining literally in movies. Weird Hungarian. Yeah, I had. No. Yeah, I I didn't read the full interview, but I saw the headline and I was like, wait, what? How are the Saffy Brothers saving cinema?

Right, yeah. Why not? Why not, Greta?

Right, someone like that. At least mix up the genders too, right? Yeah. I don't know where the the brothers Saffy came from.

Just been hanging out with you on.

One or two months? Yeah, exactly where his mastermind. Yeah, but that's so that's her story of how we ended up in yield Hollywood, watching the movie as intended for this very moment. Geniuses of cinema.

Tinseltown. Yeah, we we honor. Sir Nolan's wish.

Yeah, we can't just review it and not as intended format. Yeah, gotta be. Right. It's accurate.

The first time I saw it was a bootleg DVD. Watch it on my laptop. Yeah. And I thought, you know, maybe it deserves a little more. Maybe this would be better. On the big screen.

Yeah, it's enticed me.

So so I. So I've heard, yeah.

But the first time you saw it twice. So the first time you saw it, where was it? Was it in the IMAX? Was it?

A regular theater. It was an IMAX, but it wasn't 70 millimeter and.

It was oh Del Amo mall.

Ohh that's far.

It at the time it was, it was hard to get tickets oftentimes.

Yes, it was. When it first came out, yeah.

And so that was.

To Del Amo, we go, yeah.

The place where so the.

South Bay, right. It's almost like those.

Yes. Well, Alamitos, he's down there in long.

Beach. That's right.

Yeah, it's the small version of small desert town and. Right next to Long Beach, part of Long Beach. Yeah.

It's also California. But the reason we bring it up is because this movie got released in like 20 different formats. They literally all these websites were making the guide. Yeah, different ways to watch it, right.

It was over. Yeah. Like how how to see it. Where to see it? What?

It was ridiculous. No other movie that I can remember came out in so many formats.

Wasn't right. Tenant probably did.

Two, everything he's doing now is like shots in IMAX.

Right. The whole movie, not just like a a sequence or a. Scene or whatever, yeah.

Right, right. Big cells, I wish maybe they.

Did maybe the one day release behind the scenes. I want to see these big old cameras being just hoisted.

Around. Oh, they're gigantic. Yeah, yeah.

Editing must be a hassle.

Yeah, we have to.

Especially this film, right? You do the whole thing. We had to.

Have and. Wait a couple of days and ohh to develop, yeah.

To do the the I forgot. They call them the. Dailies or whatever, right? Make sure you're on track.

Yeah, Ivan folk in focus.

I mean, seems like the guy who'd be shooting on film anyway.

Whether it's necessary for him, I don't.

Know he he believes.

This one? Sure. I'll give them that. I don't know some of. The other ones.

Like Britney Spears, Christopher Nolan, he still believes.

He's not a girl. Not yet a woman.

Not a boy? Not yet.

At night, that's true. Oh, yeah, he's on the the cusp of a Dark Knight. He's not the knight we want, but the.

Something like that.

Yeah. OK. Movie stars.

Down to the. My God. For like hour 2. Movie is great. We're going to talk about it. Stars. Ohh no. Let's rattle off that cast.

Well, I just got some of the big names. You got Cillian Murphy. I was trying to read. Off my OK Matt Damon.

In the titular role.

Yes, as Robbie J Matt Damon as that Colonel Guy, I forgot his name. Colonel Klink. He had Emily Blunt. As the forgotten. Wife, yeah. And Robert junior junior.

As straws, straws and Florence Pugh.

Yes, I guess sure why.

Not and then. Cavalcade of of guest stars.

I like literally everybody who's still alive.

Michael Gambon. He was. In it.

Yeah, I wouldn't be sitting in the back somewhere. You got a safe.

Very safe. The dude that didn't know was him.

Jeff and Josh and Drake.

Well, him. Yeah, Josh Peck. Uh, But the his the other scientist guy who I didn't know was.

Ohh. Josh Hartnett? Yeah.

Josh Hartnett. I had no idea that.

Was him. Yeah. Livermore. No.

Lawrence Lawrence Lawrence. Yeah. I had no idea that was him. He looked nothing like. His younger self. As I commented after the movie you revealed that fact to me was that I didn't believe it was him because his eyes were open because normally Josh Harding, all his squinty eyed or not even squinty, is just like I don't know how to describe it like his eyes. Like he was born with his eyes closed. And the doctor cut him open. That's what his eyes look like for life. Thin eye all of a sudden, though. He's like he's white eyed and bushy tail.

Oh yeah, you look good.

It looked amazing. I did not think that was. I didn't realize it was him.

Who else is in it? I guess those are the the main ones we.

Yeah, every pretty much, yeah. Tons of other cameos or whatever.

Get get to them as as they Jason Clark.

He was in them. Ohh yeah, yeah, yeah, I forgot who he played. But. He was in there. No one of no played Einstein though, right? They didn't. They didn't go with Walter Matthau.

It's a it's a known. Guy, I think it's like a. He's dead, so that would be difficult.

They should use. Footage from that movie he made with Meg Ryan, where you played Einstein.

We end up burning them.

Ohh yeah, relativity some of that. And what's his name within it's.

Tim Robbins. Ohh.

They also could have used Paul Giamatti, given his recent Verizon commercial work.

Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, that would have.

Worked, missed opportunity.

Alright, maybe at least Ian McKellen? He could have been a good any.

Some real synergy. He's too tall.

The magic of movies. Angles right made the.

Angles force perspective. Yeah, exactly. Apple boxes.

Just what's his name? Murphy would have just been five feet closer to the camp, but they're facing each other.

Christopher Nolan has all the facts. Exactly. We did it all in camera. We made them. Look the same size.

They could have dug a hole in. The ground, yeah, yeah. Put him on.

The hill probably needed to do that with RDJ. Yeah, he would be on the ground and everyone else would be in the hole, right? They just. Be have trenches around him.

To make him look even, yeah. But yeah, so that's the main cast. From what I understand, this was based on that very very very. I guess like based on like some pieces were even apparently ripped out of the book of the biography. American Prometheus. Yeah, about Robbie J Oppenheimer.

Mr. Jay Robert.

Who soon some call the father of the atomic bomb.

That that they do.

But if you think about it, and we're going to this, he's one of many fathers, really. There was like a whole team of fathers.

Yeah, three men and a.

Three men in a bomb. Because it was at least Teller who was just as seemingly as instrumental.

Who went on to create his hydrogen bomb Saffy.

Ohh OK yeah, yeah, yeah. You're talking Penn and Teller. I don't think Darren.

They really took. Their magic in a different direction looks destructive path.

Even Heisenberg was a bit of a fate.

Yeah, I. Right. Well, global efforts, sure, they all.

All the the shared sciences. With an origin of fatherhood.

Gave their contribution right, sometimes secretively to this.

Love child, love childhood destruction as scientists do.

OK, so the movie starts.

With young Oppenheimer studying in England.

Well, he got sent off to England right when they're like, hey, you should go to England to follow, to study under this fool.

Because he was interested in theory.

Right now, so much the practical.

Right. No one in the United States was involved in theory or there wasn't a place to study it, right? Went to England, went to Switzerland. In the 20s.

Yes, it was twice, yeah.

And then there's some time jumping. There's three main storylines. Yeah, there is. Well, so you have the the back story that leads up to the.

Became a genius.

Well, here's the way that I here are my notes.

OK, that I wrote down.

So I I thought it very much followed like the maybe because it was Nolan, it almost felt like the comic. Theme of a superhero, right? You had the origin story. Uh-huh. Which was the 20s of him going to England cause even the way that part of the movie is shot is very quick. And just I thought that was the most cliched part of the movie. Right, goes off to this. He's he's fumbling with the beakers. They're like, oh, maybe you're more into theory. He shows up. At that lecture and he asked one question. And then the guy. 'S like oh, you're the only.

One who asked the.

Question and all of a sudden he's like. Highly regarded and that's.

A guy. It was a guy I.

Can't remember who ran off? Ohh yeah, Heisenberg was. Brian. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then. So that that's the origin story. And if you remember in the movie, it even latches or it it it had that one. I think the first part was called Fusion. Even though I agree with you, there's like 3 parts to the movie. The first part is called Fusion and then the second or I guess what? What I think we deemed the third part is like the the the hearing portion is the part that it was labeled fusion. But I think it was kind of lazy because it didn't. He didn't seem to follow that as like he. Put the title card real quick. And it kind of got lost in the rest of the movie. But, but yes, there are like 3 timelines happening, which is of course like a Nolan thing right there always must be more than one timeline the the the leading up to the the the well the creation of open higher then you had like the Los Alamos portion and then you have like the third portion where it's the the hearing where the. The the the small hearing where they're removing his security clearance. Yeah, kind of juxtaposed with the larger hearing of the the straws confirmation.

Yeah. So there's the stuff in the 40s where they're leading up to the up to, yeah, the the tests, the test.

Up to the bomb.

Trinity, then there is.

Seven years later, eight years later.

I think it just it's roughly less than 10 I think yeah, or 10 because it was like from 45 to 54.

OK remember thing in my head. Ohh just like the.

Flip numbers. OK where Oppenheimer is. And being interrogated and it is to to see if he yeah, to see if he gets his security clearance renewed, renewed and then the third timeline.

Basically, yeah. For a routine routine clearance, really.

Is a confirmation hearing for Strauss, played by Robert Downey Junior, who is instrumental in getting Oppenheimer. On to the Manhattan Project and he's up for Secretary of Commerce, right. And then he's being questioned about his involvement in the Manhattan Project, why he chose Oppenheimer. And at this point in the late 40s and, well, but Strauss's thing is I think, early 60s. Yeah.

A lot of anti Communist House of unamerican activities type stuff. So they're questioning Oppenheimer's politics, which were communist leaning in the.

He well, he was like. Four things. He was always like all over the place.

And then his security clearance. Hearing interrogation type thing was also.

Can this person be trusted? Was he a communist? Is he anti American? And so in having the different timelines, you kind of see him, Oppenheimer hailed as a hero, creating the bomb, the aftermath of him. Being cast out of. The scientific community and cast out of being an American hero figure that he was, yeah.

And having a say in atomic policy really.

Yeah. And in the 60s, he's redeemed a little bit.

A little bit, yeah, he gave. Him a. Well, they were like well.

Yeah, because because you understand. More of the politics and what? Was going on and how Strauss was. Wheeling and dealing and not such an upright. Citizen. No. So you get all of those kind of happening? Almost simultaneously, cause they they.

The cut between it so it gives you a.

Yeah. Back and forth, yeah.

Differing perspectives all throughout. The movie, and I think it worked better to do it that way than that if it were completely linear.

A straight linear I agree. I think linear would have been too boring, right? And they would have really had to. Have compacted a lot. Of things, because I I felt like this one and kind of like you mentioned. The way I had it was like. Again like it. It just reminded me a lot of, like, a superhero comic book story, Origin story, the hero turn creating the bomb. We should talk about later too, but then the backlash and then the return, right. It just followed the those beats of of those type of movies, which I guess is not really.

That far out from like a tragedy type of story, except for maybe not the tragedy. Push at. The end, yeah. But the the the arc right? Yeah, the, the, the rise and fall and rise. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know if they did it linear. Like, I don't know. Yeah. Would have to have been like a five day. And even with the movie coming in. And with like just about 3 hours. Yeah, it felt very quick. Yeah, especially for like a Nolan movie. Like it rushed through a lot.

Yeah, and even. Though you said the beginning was a little. Predictable or just in the kind of the beach that it hit. It was. It was. Quick, very fast. Like you had to get it went through his origin story and I think set up a good pace and got people excited like, OK, we're getting through this. I know when I saw it I was like alright well.

Let's get to the. Bomb part like that. Let's see some we. Want the bomb? Like, alright, he's he's young. He, like, meets his first wife. Florence Pugh.

Well, yeah. Wife, was it ever. Wife. I always forget because he had all these affairs and.

Was it or just right, right.

Stuff like that, it's hard to.

Keep track of those women or in love with the genius.

Apparently cause that was one of the charges, they said of him, right, womanizer.

Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then once he got on to the Manhattan projects, that's when I got excited. I was like, OK, here we go. Now we're really doing something. They're out. In New Mexico. Right and. They're they're developing something. They're in a race against the Germans. And it was just moved, I think, a propulsive rate. Yeah. And I got excited. And then it's. Yeah, it went. And then there are a. Lot of characters. To keep track of that was a lot of.

Two. Yeah. Tons.

Historical figures, yeah. That some names I recognized the first time I saw, like Heisenberg, right. OK no him.

Lawrence. Yeah. Josh hartness. Lawrence Livermore Labs at least knew like I didn't know. About him. Oh, OK, right.

And so the first time I saw it was a little confusing because there's so many people and then they start like mentioning people. In conversations. Right. It's like, who is that? Ah, it wasn't even.

Yeah. Who is again? Yeah.

Like, who was he in history like? Who was he?

In the movie, yeah.

Like, Oh my God. And the second time I saw, I could relax because I knew it so I could focus on other things beyond. I wasn't trying.

Of the names and story, the plot.

Yeah, yeah, but I if he had gone any slower. To give these people more like it would have been too long, it would have dragged it, drag it down. So you just got to got.

Oh, it definitely would be long, yeah. To, but I do kind of wish maybe he hadn't done this one in a two-part series. Ohh like a Harry Potter. And the deathly atomic bombs. Because it was a lot, I don't know. I wish it would spend a little bit more time in the Los Alamos period. Umm, because seeing them sort of the the his managing all these different personalities. But also sort of like. Maybe some of the ego stuff he had with some. Of them like teller. Yeah, would have been like like a movie. Just right there. Yeah. To the degree of of of the detail and technical expertise of this movie on that period. You know that I think would have been just amazing. And it could have even ended with the, the, the Trinity testing. And that could have been a great movie. In of itself. But yeah, there was a lot of stuff and he was able to even the the pace of just the storytelling of the first portion. I think he was able to retain that even the last portion was was literally just all talking.

Right. But yeah, the. Way. Yeah, the way he was able to keep. I'm mostly talking movie at such a brisk pace, and people, you know, drawn in and paying attention. I think it was a feat.

Pretty good feat. Yeah, I don't think I ever felt like a a board.

Portion during the movie. No, I think the slowest portion, which is what most people say is the slowest portion is the last.

3rd which I don't get, but maybe that's just a different. Pacer thing. You know what I mean cause.

Oh, you're you're into it.

Those those, those like? Yeah, those. Political talking things sometimes can be like they're like super gripping cause like real life stuff. And yeah, it's words, but it's like words that have actual effects. Yeah. So yeah, if you're just like, oh, yeah, they're just people talking. But if you also factor.

In that it. There's like consequences to. People talking, it's like a lot more gripping when you consider it in a totality.

Yeah, he's not Sorkin, so. It's not right, like it's political and I think for historical import and just seeing.

I was gonna. Bring that up, yeah.

Straws and his imaginations. Yeah, and him kind of not dissolve, but breaks down. Yeah. The sure win that he was thought he was gonna have like, his a or kept saying it's for malady. Don't worry about it. They love you. You're gonna pass it and then him melting right and then his kind of true character coming out as they prod more and more.

To his involvement with Oppenheimer, which is why a lot of people are thinking. Robert Downey junior is gonna get a an. Oscar nomination so for supporting.

Yeah. Well, it's apparently between him and Gosling.

Yeah, that seems to be. The the early down. Talk talk of the town. Talk of the Tinseltown. So yeah, this I watched the movie and the first time. Without hearing anything about it, really just wanted to go in and then I. Write reviews, listen to podcasts, and then like the the last third kind of drags. And then I went into the second viewing, thinking, alright, well, it's going to be a little slower. I almost feel like because I was. Prepared for it. I had an expectation where OK. I know that a lot of stuff has already happened. This is going to be we're going to. Shift gears. And I still found it compelling. Yeah, I was. I was OK with it. I was because I was expecting it. I I was able to watch it for the political aspects of it and it it worked. I don't think it could ever match the 1st 2/3. But I did enjoy watching it. But it didn't. It doesn't have the.

The the Red tag tag, yeah.

Of the Sorkin, so it it lost a little steam on that.

Well, I'm glad you brought up working because I thought they were like, I remember when we came out of the movie, there was two things that popped in my head as I sort of like references. One of them was JFK, especially those hearing. When it turns to black and white, uh, that's the first thing. When I popped in my hand watching the movie was like, oh, this is like JFK. Hmm. And then I was thinking, too, Sorkin, for two reasons. One. The House circuit is obsessed with the, quote UN quote great Man story, right. And then also that portion where was just talking.

Right. Yeah, yeah.

Where it was just more his bread and butter than cause. I'm trying to think back in Nolan's movies. Most of them are not like that. So they're very so. They're like heavy. Yeah, they're more like plot driven and sort of like narrative complexity and technically driven. Yeah, that seems like more his thing.

Dialogue heavy, yeah. Idea cerebral.

Yes, not the talk, right. So here we have a change I think for Nolan. And I think part of for the better. We're. Yeah, it's more dialogue driven and then sort of these flashbacks to like JFK and the turning to black and white. And the the gripping hearing and political. Ness, of of the of what's his? Oliver. Stone, at least in that movie, yeah. But yeah, so it was interesting to see Nolan branched into those areas where I don't think he's ever gone before. And do a pretty good.

Job at it, yeah. We'll see what he does next and whether he'll continue with his historical yeah interests or if he'll come back into contemporary.

Go back to. Sci-fi or comic?

Books life, yeah. I don't think it's. He's going to do IP again, I don't know.

And maybe it made him super famous.

Yeah, but maybe just like got him to be the biggest director and then it's like, OK, cool.

Can do what what I want now.

I do want to talk about. Sort of. His team, his crack team. OK, I have a dumb note here. Yeah, it's almost he, like, put together his own. Manhattan Project. Ohh OK. Cause like the cinematographer, the cinematography in this movie was freaking amazing. Especially some of those scenes in the in New Mexico. Yes, they were. Just like the.

The vistas, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, the vistas and the horses, and they're like, whoa, what movie? Is this Hoyt van Hoytema? Uh, he's worked with him. I guess a lot, pretty much in all of his movies. The Dutch cinematographer, also famous for uh, he did let the let the right one in that vampire movie, also cinematographer and her. Oh yeah, but he's apparently. I think I looked up his his filmography. He's worked, I think.

Pretty much at. Almost all the Nolan movies interesting. Score Ludwig goransson.

Swedish composer also, I think he worked with him the first time on tenant, but he's also famous for doing all the Black Panther. I'm sorry he won an Academy Award for the Black Panther score. He's done all the creed movies and he did the Mandalorian. Oh, but all those things like, I don't know. Because the cinematography and the the the score and sound design like did a whole bunch. To make the movie what it.

Was yes. Yeah. And there's there's so much.

It was in Nolan just being like this is the Nolan show.

Yeah. I mean cinematography is is so important, especially because Nolan is so visual based and so precise.

Right. And the details. Yeah. And you have to have the top of the top guy you're shooting. The whole movie in.

IMAX, where every details will. Be found, yeah.

You can't just have any Tom, **** or.

Harry, I saw some people criticizing the black and white portions and. That it was a little. Muddy and it wasn't. Crisp and I saw the I I read that in between viewings didn't really notice it in the first one, and then I was looking for it in the second so it could be biased.

I mean, I can see what they saying. I thought they were going for that. That's why I'm. Saying like if. You go back to watch JFK. It was like that. It wasn't like super crisp. It was almost like had a graininess. To it, it all seemed like it was like very contrasty, but grainy at the same time.

I think they were saying that some of the stuff just wasn't very contrasty and it was.

Oh oh, like 2 white.

Just a little too. Too law, like all the the tones. If you had together, there's some shots that I thought were well done, huh? And then others were like Oh yeah.

OK, maybe and upon.

2nd viewing. Yeah, your second, my third.

You're third. We have to watch it.

Again, please Sir.

Get half another. But yeah, so alright, let's go into some of the. The meat of the movie.

The meat of the matter.

What did you think about the way Nolan, like presented Oppenheimer as a person, a historical and real and? Character to some degree.

Yeah, I think he. I don't know a ton about him. Oppenheimer outside of the movie, but. He seemed to be. I think who was it? Was it? Teller, who called him a. Sphinx, yes.

And we don't know where you stand. You don't even.

Know where you stand and that. Kind of shadowy or mercurial, hmm. Obviously a very intelligent person. Ego high amount of self-confidence. But also kind of shifty, not in a. A negative way, but just kind of always moving around, not wanting to be pinned down right personally seemed to be a person to hold everyone at arm's length. And so it's hard to understand who he was as a person. Which I found interesting. Despite like a three hour. Running time like what? What drove this guy? Yeah, you kind of get into his regrets. And seeing that he.

With him as the focus.

And wanted to have sound nuclear policy going forward and have this global thing because he wasn't. Have looked back at what he did with a. Kind of regret, right? So I think it it created a a complicated portrait of him. And I don't think he necessarily came down hard one side or the other about whether he was a good man. For doing the atomic bomb or a bad man or. Who he was personally to the people around him, whether it. Was good or bad, so I appreciated. That, but I think ultimately. I think like a lot of people in Noah's movies is like the misunderstood genius type thing, like ultimately he's. He did great things and somehow that.

Which is a question mark.

He did great things.

Maybe not great in terms of value. Important things I. Guess, yeah. Not great as. In like this is the best thing that's ever happened in the world. This is.

Yeah, we're all going to die.

The like on. That kind of scale. Yeah. Just in terms of the size of the ambition and being able to accomplish that. Kind of great. So while he, I don't think it really makes a judgment on him, I think ultimately it is. The positive ish? Yeah. Was it this? Is still an important person that's worthy of a of a movie.

That was basically my my thoughts. This is what I have in my. Notes too? Yeah, he. Showed like every angle of him. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The, the, the vein part, the selfish part, the genius part, the aloof part. And ultimately, I do think the movie doesn't judge him one way or the other. Clearly, but I feel like at the end, like you said, like neutral positive or whatever, I feel like, no. Very much does love. Oppenheimer because I and I think that because there's a like in the movie, the parts I kind of feel like the most interesting are when people the some of the characters are. Directly facing Oppenheimer and telling him, like, you know what you did or you know, like, you know, you're trying to claim this like ohh. I didn't know this was gonna happen or I thought this was gonna be good. But they're like, you know what you were doing, you know. You know? But then. Like, I feel like no one. Then let's go. He pushes a little bit, but then let's go. Yeah. And then let's kind of Oppenheimer off the hook a little too easily, which I wish he had just kept on pushing a little bit more in the movie on those more interesting facets than just kind of like.

MMM. Because I feel.

Like, that's like Nolan does a lot. He does have a lot of interesting ideas in his movies, but he just kind of prances around them. Yeah, and then lets it go. Whereas I just wish he kept on pushing a little bit more on those because ultimately like, one of the the pictures that they show. And I think he talked about this in one of the interviews I've read, I didn't read much about the movie. I read one interview, though. The New York Times interview with Nolan. And some of the things like they talk about is sort of like. Oppenheimer's like. If he's really naive or not, because that's what's and portion of the movie, he's almost depicted that way, right? Especially during the security clearance. Little room hearing. Yeah. Fake trial. Yeah. Where he. Even the wife. Emily Blunt. Right. He's like you're just offering yourself for, you know, you you you have to be. You have to know better. Than this and he just doesn't say anything. Yeah, and he comes off, like, naive until, like, there's a portion I think this is almost. Emily blunt's. Best performance in the movie where she's like. Pushing them like you, you're not naive. This you're do you know what you're doing? Yeah. So I think it's one of those things, like in history. Where I don't. Know I think he let him off too much, allowing him the night activitate that I don't think he actually possessed. I think it was all an act and he was much more of a strategist tactician than he let on. But I think it was one of the things that made him a strong person, but also maybe not. There's that thing where they always say, right? If you think you're the smartest person in the room. You kind of act like it, but you don't know. You're not necessarily always. Taking into account how other people may react to what your imaginations, I think that's exactly what happened with the straws thing. I think he thought he knew what he was doing. Didn't exactly, but then, maybe because this draws as a more of a selfish jerk or whatever, he was able to like, come out at the end on top. Mm-hmm. But what did it cost to get there? Yeah, you know, especially through all his everything. His whole life was put on display for security clearance. Yeah.

Well, that was one of the things that he that was said during the movie. Emily Blunt. Kitty. Mm-hmm. Was like, are you just letting them tar and feather you? Right to get rid of your your guilt, right. Is this what? How you're going to redeem yourself to the world?

Right. But even in that right, she's almost like accusing, asking at the same time, because even she doesn't really necessarily know. Hmm. And that's ultimately though Oppenheimer, right? He's never going to let you know exactly. What he's thinking or doing? And you can only. Kind of figure it out by what happens afterwards.

I think all those, all the prodding of Oppenheimer by the various characters and his unwillingness to answer them. I think it helps show his conflicted feelings. He can never come bring himself to say this was a bad idea or I shouldn't have done this.

And it leaves him a little squirmy and a little. Yes, evasive.

But now I'm curious, like when you mentioned that because.

But he also felt guilt because otherwise it did seem like he was. Doing you know.

The watching the movie and thing about him talking about it now, it was like a guilt, but it was like a guilt with like, an internal smile. You know what I mean?

Like when it when the ego of doing it.

Yeah, right. Right. Exactly. The ego of doing it. But what he unleashed. Yes. So that's what I mean, like I guess he was conflicted, but it was almost like he was conflicted because he wasn't able to celebrate. What he did to the level he wanted to because it led to the death of many, many, many, many, many lives, yeah.

He's the genius.

And potentially more, given the way there were things went. And we're going, yeah. But yeah, I don't. Know. I mean, that's what made this movie good. And that's one of the things too that I was wondering too, was it just the fact that it was such as complicated character person that made the movie good? Like, what if someone? Else directed it. Would have been a bad movie, like outside of someone like a. McGee. Or you know? What I mean, like anybody, anybody with some? Sense had directed this movie would have been much different, I think so outside of maybe that that that some of the technical prowess. Which I guess makes the.

Well, yeah, there's a lot of visual styling and then if you think of.

Movie hot, too? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right.

An average biopic there is. Even though if it followed some of the the beats of that like you said, like the the hero journey type thing or the creation of a superhero, I think.

Yeah, sure. This is not your average. Yeah.

It could be. Very generic the that's the BIOS are always like. OK well this is. A standard biopic that's actually.

A good point. OK. And and yeah, especially with all his affairs, it could cause a lot of those biopics just turned into, you know, the salaciousness of this genius or whatever. So I guess that's true.

It could have gone a.

Whole different or walk the line or array or. You know, there's music biopics.

Right, right. What the line was good. Ray was a pet, like a caricature. Yeah. Could have been a walk hard. That's what he should have done. He should have done. Like. Yeah, like a walk hard. Almost like, oh, what's the movie? I'm thinking of the Kubrick.

Could have been been a Dewey costume.

Doctor Strangelove could have gone that.

Route I'm cutting back. I'm cutting down pretty bad, dude.

You don't want to. Tell her. Tell her. Tell him.

I want none of this zombie.

Alright, yeah. What do you think of the the performances?

I think everyone did phenomenally. Yeah, I think. As usual, because for for Nolan movies, although they acted well, like Emily Blunt and Florence Pugh, because they're.

It looks pretty good casting.

Women didn't get a lot of screen time, and in that aspect of Oppenheimer's life. Wasn't really explored too much. As usual, there had to be a woman who died that deeply affected.

Well, that was in truth, that was history. He just killed her in the mine. But.

Sure, sure. But like.

Alive. Right, like interstellar. There was the the his daughter and the Prestige.

Hugh Jackman was haunted by the death of.

Forgot who? The Scarlett.

Scarlett Johansson. Because you drowned, right? A lot of people drowning, huh? Marion Courtyard in the Batman movies? Femme fatale.

In the inception, she was like the the Crazy, the mentally disturbed Cobbs wife, who was like her psyche, was stuck in the.

I don't remember though.

Like haunted. His psyche. It was his wife who committed suicide.

Who was that? Ohh, that's right. Yeah, yeah.

Memento Trinity. Well, she was in it. She just. Was around but like the whole reason he was.

And or getting.

John G raped and murdered my wife.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

So there's always. A woman at the center of a man's.

Tortured soul, right? But doesn't get screen time. But that's an interesting point that you brought up. Yeah. You had these two big names. I think the one that did the most with what they had was blunt. Yes, because I think like a lot of the movies have been in recently, especially I want to say since like the Devil Wears Prada. She's playing kind of these. I wanna say, like, boring ish characters. At least this one gave her something to do. Not a ton. A screen time. Uh, but when she was on there, like she did everything she could with it. Yeah. Especially those scenes in the. At the security clearance. Yeah. I was like, whoa, where this? Emily Blunt been? Yeah. Like she's been hiding way.

Too long, he's just. Drunk most of the movie, just angry. And that's another thing. We were just like antagonists. Yeah, bringing down. Slowing down. Yeah, the man it's.

Like, Oh my God. Have to take her of my child.

Ohh yes, which was a fun portion right? Especially for that time when most the time when everybody was and it was kind of represent the movie where there like a gasp when she said that.

Alright, so you take care.

Yeah, but yeah, because she was not your your typical. A stay at home wife.

She was a a biologist.

Right. She was also of note herself, yes.

And Florence Pugh is a psychiatrist.

It's like it's like probably a psychoanalyst at that time, yeah.

So they both had professional degrees, and then each one of them.

But it still fell under his spell. Steely eyed spell.

There's like there's like.

One line for each of them about what they. Did outside of.

Which I think if again I don't. Yeah, the same with you. I didn't know a ton of his before the movie. And you some stuff like I knew some of the stuff, like, and that's what I say in the movie. They touch too much. I think like. Like his Buddhism thing. Ohh. Hmm. Like they kind of. They showed that part where reading the Sanskrit book. Yeah, but apparently his real.

Life while he's having sex with Florence.

It was a. Right. It was maybe a little bit more. They make him seem like his. Sort of. Little flirtations with communism, but I think in real life it was a. Bit more than that and maybe even went further than they made it seem in the movie. So there's all this little stuff that they I think the movie just kind of touches on, which I think may have been bigger stepping stones in his real life. But who?

OK. Yeah. Knows that's tough 800 page.

Right, that's true.

And to be, at least according to the biographer, the most faithful adaptation of a biography. Yes, only my work could be adapted to such high prestigious degree.

They should do a battle of the biographies was the.

Other big one was was it?

Oh, the the teddy Roosevelt the three parter.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd like to. See her go. Up against that three books, lady. Yeah.

Or the power broker the is it Robert Carroll? The geography of Robert Moses?

Ohh yeah yeah yeah yeah. I had another good one. Yeah, but uh, yeah, what else we got?

11 That's what I got. Whoever that wrap.

Her up? Ohh, just about some of the. Side stuff. What did you think of?

It. Yeah, the fact that they didn't show. The actual Japanese bombings.

I enjoyed that. I don't. Enjoy it I I thought.

See millions of people or thousands of people die.

That was the the right choice.

I think it was an interesting choice and I think maybe in.

Yeah, 3 explosions.

Well, get right. You had the the the test and then you would have two more. I think in this movie The way it was made. Like it worked. Not having the bombing, but I think it muddles some of the what I feel like Nolan's ultimate, because this is again, I was about like Nolan, is muddled sort of themes and ideas in this movie, like in this one, right. It kind of like walks the line of like was this good? Was this not good? But then by the end when you have that scene of all the bombs flying by. And and oppenheimers in the airplane or whatever, it gets pretty clear no one is now like criticizing the nuclear proliferation that's happened, yes.

So I think that I don't know how that contrasts with the fact that. To show that or to have that idea and not have the actual what happened to the actual people who died, which is what you're kind of like criticizing. Yeah. It kind of muddles I feel.

His ultimate. Whatever holding of nuclear bombs.

But then how do you how do you how do you film that? How do you like you can't just show them drop in and exploding.

Right would do it.

Because then you have to like, show the whole like you have to give I. Think enough. Right to humanize it. Yeah. And to show people on the ground and then making that into entertainment.

And then. But that's the thing, right? I don't know. There's Nolan. I think his. Does he do you think he holds his movies as entertainment?

Have a flexible.

Or does he hold his? Movies as art because you can do it in art, maybe not entertainment. Both Batman, definitely.

But this was his pure. Art movie, you know.

What I mean. Ohh right? Yeah, I think he wants to entertain people. He wants to get people into the cinema. I think he realizes it's ultimately. Entertainment. But he's done at a very high level. And yeah, I just don't think part of it is like. Trivializing it by putting it into the movie and because it would probably have such a short amount of time to show it, like just having the bomb drop, could be a movie into itself.

That's true too. And then you already have the pivotal Trinity Trinity. And then to have two more explosions. Loses lose impact and that's the thing that you wanna have the most impact.

Right with the bomb. Yeah. Yeah, I yeah, that's. What I I had mixed feelings the whole time. I can see why it wasn't included. It's just like with the ultimate. Ending of the movie? I don't.

Know well they have those awkward scenes where people's that woman's face was.

Right when Oppenheimer's like having his whatever. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Delusions or what? It was like. That's yeah. Yeah.

A representation. OK, I almost feel like I could do without. That part too, yeah. I think that portion and then the portion too that gets ignored. And again because there is such focus on sort of the fallout of everything the Los Alamos area when they asked him what's out here, he says nothing, which is apparently not, which was not true historically. It was native peoples and and some Mexican Mexican American people that live there.

Yeah, even grave sites.

Oppenheimer says no one's here. Yeah. Clear it out. Yeah, but apparently, according to history. Yeah, right. Those people got kicked out. But not only were they kicked out of their homes and land, they were. Then hired to work on the actual building of the bomb. Yeah, without any safety equipment. All the white scientists got protection. The people of color and indigenous people all got cancer and died. Yeah. And then I I just feel like it's a throw away cause there's one line in the movie when they say, what should we do with the land? And Oppenheimer just give it back to the Indians, right? Just like it was just like a throw away, almost like a very ****** line.

Right, right. Yeah, exactly.

I respect this land so much, right? Came here as a child.

Child. And then I bummed the **** out of it with nuclear bomb.

I will give. It back right to.

The in the much worse condition.

The good people of the southwest.

Yeah, that really grounded my gears.

You weren't really grinds my gears.

Either like mention it, yeah, or don't throw away that line to make again. That's what I mean. When he when it's like he tries to have almost a a non judgmental view of Oppenheimer. But there's these little things that's like. Nah. You're clearly in. Love with this? Guy, which I can see there's maybe a factor of art, right? Even they always people are always saying like even people play villains. You have to find something to like about this person. But I feel like he felt into fell into maybe I don't know if you want to call it trap or the same thing as like a even a Scorsese where he's almost seemingly just as much as in love with the thing he's almost criticizing.

Like, I think the clearest example might be. Wolf of wall. St. whereas like he clearly I think holds the DiCaprio character in contempt. But he's also like having fun. Seeing all his hijinks. Ohh hmm and I feel like he does that even. With all his movies you want. To talk about like. The the, the, the, the gangster movies. Right. Uh. Goodfellas. Yeah. Good fellas. Horrible. People. Uh, but there's like. A warmth. To them that I think he has.

I don't know. I mean I. Think there's enough in those movies to show them as terrible people? Yes, that ultimately comes out on the negative. Or at least shows them as. Full complicated characters, yeah. I think it comes out as a complicated.

Oh, he definitely comes off complicated. Yeah, yeah. Yes, but I'm just carefully curious, like and then maybe that's the ultimate Oppenheimer. No one ever knew. Yeah, how conflicted he really was. Was it an act? Because that again, I got to go back to like the the, the Nativity or whatever. Like they keep on. There were people in a circle who were against the bomb before the bomb even was created. But after the bomb, when he acts so surprised. That they're still continuing and then he has his meeting with the Truman when he calls him a crybaby, which actually after thinking after the movie was like, I gotta see why I call him a crybaby like you did this man, right. And now you're. Like don't. Do it. It's like I can see why Truman. Would call him a crybaby. You know whether that's the right word or not. I can I I see. Where he was the creator of destruction. And now he kind of want to walk. He wants to walk him back.

Yeah, I think some of he was. Drawn by ego and. Seemed at the beginning of the movie, like when. He's talking to krumholtz.

Ohh yeah, I forgot.

Crumbles within the movie.

Hitler, you know, advancing and working on the bomb. Yeah. And being Jewish like this. If the Germans get to it first.

Jews especially are going to get annihilated. Right off the bat, right. And then the entire world will get. Taken over by a A totalitarian.

Right. It probably would. Have happened. Yeah. So I see the rush to. Create. I just don't think. He was as dumb as he let on to be. Of what? Could have been the fallout. Because even again the. His communist buddies around him, who were against it. Uh, I think that by that point, even right out, Einstein had already written the letter to don't do it, even though he was an early proponent or whatever, and use some of his science to further, but I think he was anti the bomb. So that I I just like there was enough around him to know what were the potentials of. What was happening?

Yeah, I think he decided it was. He didn't want the bomb, but if anyone was going to have it, it was better for the Americans to have it than the Germans and it. Was like the lesser of two evils, right?

Then everybody got it. But it was an interesting part in the New York Times article or the interview with Nolan, where he was like saying he was talking to his kids and the kids were like because he was saying he grew up. There was, like, different periods of sort of this atomic scare. Right this period. When it was created and then again in. The 60s. Right. Yeah. So he's kind of the top of these generations, including his with the 60s.

Grew up with at least this fear of nuclear annihilation, and he was talking to like one of his kids, like a teenager or whatever they're like. Oh, yeah, Dad, we haven't thought about it. That's not something we worry about, right? Nuclear bombs or nuclear or. Destruction right. Which was, I think, an interesting. Because, I mean, technically kind of is true. I mean it comes up every now and again, but it never seems very serious. Like when they like. North Korea or? Something, right? Right. But yeah, no one lives under that fear. No one has. Goes under their desk, desk and stuff.

Right. It's not part of now. Now it's in active shooters.

Yeah, there's that. Exactly right. Yeah, it doesn't it. It doesn't permeate everything like it seemingly did. There's a global fear.

Right, right. Right, we're going to.

Destroy each other. Yeah, but that. That's still technically is an existential threat, yeah. Man, I wonder if she would have. Had Oppenheimer not gotten the? Job. Uh, I feel like. It still would have happened.

Maybe. I mean, would we have made it first?

Hmm, I don't know.

Would we have like tested it and something would have gone wrong and we wouldn't have had a working bomb? I don't know.

We'll never know, but I was just thinking that out loud because I like maybe. It gets too. Much credit. Oh, like how much you know. What I mean cause yeah, it was a. Team effort. Sure, someone had.

Delete him though.

Right. That was gonna say that was maybe his strongest strength is like the only scientist who could manage personalities. Yeah. But yes, I guess. Ultimately, we are left with the. As to what this man believed, as was repeated in the movie, especially through Teller, and that pie was the strongest part.

Yeah, most explicitly stated.

I don't know where you stand, do you? Even know where you stand there? Huh. Anyway, way he's dead. So even the the one who becomes death dies. Any final thoughts?

Not sure what Rami Malik was doing in the movie, but.

That was just great.

Yeah, that was. You know what? I'm glad you. Brought that up, yeah. I don't know if we need it. I don't know if we needed so many little cameos. Yeah, I think it almost distracted from the movie. I would have been fine if they were just.

Another 20 minutes on this.

Like no name people.

Yeah, I don't know. Like, everyone's just clamoring to be in the movie, so we have to find parts for people or he is goes after them or offers. Or they're truly the best people for the job.

Yeah, I was the only ones I really enjoyed was almost the unexpected ones. The Josh Harnett and the.

Krumholtz krumholtz. Yeah, yeah.

Because doing something completely different. Yeah, I liked him. He was good. He almost stole the show. I couldn't, but yeah. He done without Rami could have done without a Josh Peck. Probably over the thousand other.

Kenneth Bannon.

People that popped up. Yeah, I could. I like Brianna, but. Then, without him as Eisenberg. Yeah, yeah. I bet I bet he was ****** ***. He was like this movie should be mine.

You thought he should have been Oppenheimer? No.

What director, probably. But no, you're right actually. He always does put himself as a star. I bet, yeah. Kenneth Branner probably. Would have cast himself and directed it, and probably was like the whole time was like. This should have. Been mine. Like hamlet. Yeah, let's say he's another one of those great man type of movie people. But on that note. That is Oppenheimer, in an atomic second.

Everything you you wanted to know about the topic bomb, but we're so sorry to ask.

The the Saffy brothers have explained it. Yeah. Alrighty till next.

Time till next time, folks.