Welcome to Episode 15 of Grounded Conversations by Black Coffee Northwest, an intergenerational conversation about ourselves, our blackness, our world, and our favorite drinks.
Join us in this week's episode as we discuss how to create authentic community with amazing women leading in these spaces within the work that they do. In this episode you will get a whole bunch of gems when it comes to being impactful and mindful in your community and hear about the individual journeys these women had to get there.
On this podcast episode we will be discussing:
• How to first stay true and authentic to yourself before your community
• Creating connections within community by listening and asking before just giving
• The difference between equality and equity
We would love to hear from you and if any of you have any stories to share feel free to contact us with the information below.
Don’t forget to check out our first visual recording of our podcast on Youtube!
Email - info@blackcoffeenw.com
• Instagram - Black Coffee NW
• Twitter - Coffee NW
• Facebook - Black Coffee NW
• LinkedIn - Black Coffee NorthWest
• Youtube - Black Coffee NorthWest
Listen and follow the podcast on all major platforms:
• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify
• Stitcher
• Youtube
• and more
Welcome to Episode 15 of Grounded Conversations by Black Coffee Northwest, an intergenerational conversation about ourselves, our blackness, our world, and our favorite drinks.
Join us in this week's episode as we discuss how to create authentic community with amazing women leading in these spaces within the work that they do. In this episode you will get a whole bunch of gems when it comes to being impactful and mindful in your community and hear about the individual journeys these women had to get there.
On this podcast episode we will be discussing:
• How to first stay true and authentic to yourself before your community
• Creating connections within community by listening and asking before just giving
• The difference between equality and equity
We would love to hear from you and if any of you have any stories to share feel free to contact us with the information below.
Don’t forget to check out our first visual recording of our podcast on Youtube!
Email - info@blackcoffeenw.com
• Instagram - Black Coffee NW
• Twitter - Coffee NW
• Facebook - Black Coffee NW
• LinkedIn - Black Coffee NorthWest
• Youtube - Black Coffee NorthWest
Listen and follow the podcast on all major platforms:
• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify
• Stitcher
• Youtube
• and more
Welcome to Grounded Conversations by Black Coffee Northwest, an intergenerational conversation about ourselves, our blackness, our world, and our favorite drinks. Grounded Conversations is all about brewing up discussions and topics that matter to the community. With our differing perspectives, our hopes is to share our unique flavors, opinions. And also life experiences to create a greater insight and also understanding. So join us every other Tuesday as we come together and talk all about things that are on and popping all over a nice hot cup of black coffee. So welcome everyone to Grounded Conversations at Black Coffee Northwest. We're so excited to be here today recording in the studio. We got the ladies in the house today. we are super excited about our topic today, which is creating authentic community. And I know that you're gonna get so much out of this episode and here at Black Coffee. We are very committed to building relationships and authentic community connection. That's something that is placed in our priority list. It's something that is practiced with everything that we do here. And we believe that also like in our lives, it it's shaped by the communities in which we're in. And we wanna be very intentional about doing that work. And I have the had the opportunity and the honor to work with each of the the women in our space today in different ways. But all of it led to. Creating community. And I will say that all of the partnerships and events and things that we've done together have been so easy. And I tell people all the time when you're going into it with the goal of It's bigger than me, it's bigger than you, it's bigger than our program. It's really about elevating our community voice. It's so much easier. Even I was late to one of our events and I was running in, but it was just so easy, right? We're able to like, get things done. And so I'm excited to have us all in this space today. And so what we'll do is we'll go around and introduce each other. We're gonna start with Sunni and go around that way. And if you can introduce yourself and your position and what you are drinking because we are at Black Coffee. And we love coffee in other. Thanks. I will start. This is Anisha everyone. And I am drinking wine today. Actually. I am drinking at some red wine. It is five o'clock. What time is it? It's five 50. I had a long day at. Work today. My husband's father is actually very ill and he's been traveling back and forth, and so it's time for me to have a class of wine and have a meaningful conversation. So that's what I'm drinking today. Oh, I'm sorry about Ro. Oh, thank you. Hi, everyone. I'm SUNY Tolton. I work for the City of Shoreline and I'm the equity and social justice program coordinator, and I have to go pick up my kid from lacrosse practice later, so I'm just drinking water, but in, in my spirit, I'm drinking wine with you. We'll take it. I like it. Well good evening and thank you for the invitation. Wish is going to Irwin and his family and you as well, Darnisha. Melanie Dixon. Glad to be here this evening. I have the great luxury of serving as the Vice President of diversity, equity and inclusion at Shoreline Community College. And what am I drinking this evening? I wish I could see who all the viewers were, but I am drinking a lime margarita and it is very delightful. Cut water if you're interested in the brand, in a canned baby because Look delicious. It's my favorite. My name is Mar La. I'm the Director of Equity and Social Justice at the Vita Agency. And thank you Darnisha for reading me. And getting me a line with some to get us through the evening. I didn't have a hard day at work, but it's always a good time for Quida. Yes, it is. I concur. And I'm Dr. Roxanne Green. I'm a full-time faculty member, newly elected department chair at Edmonds College, and I am also drinking margarita. I don't normally drink, so this should be fun. I could, everybody see, I can have drunk. This is how we're gonna start this podcast. No, I'm just kidding. Thank you so much for introducing yourselves and Yes. And I'm Diana. We will also be hosting and asking these amazing women some questions today. And I am drinking some water. Hello. Hello. I'm Havin also going to be helping with this podcast and I'm also drinking some lovely water until August. They be drinking, it's a thing here. When they turn 21, we take'em out and get out there. I drink. I like it. So we take the rite of passage. Yes. It's a R of passage. I recommend the lime margarita. I'm gonna keep it, I'm gonna keep it in mind. Keep it in your head. Except for my daughter turns 21 next years. How? Not quite sure. How about that? I'm, we gotta draw that. We can do that. Need someone else to do that for her. Somebody? Yes. She's not gonna wanna go with me. Yes. There you go. Oh, yes. Yes. She's offering. We got an auntie now. All right, so we're gonna hop into some questions and hop and Diana, feel free to have conversation with us as well, cuz this is really for you. This is for your generation to hear our stories and hear how we've been intentional about creating community. And just to affirm that you can do it. And to give you examples, and that's really the goal today, is to give you an example. It's something that I did not have. I just started doing it out of my need to want to feel connected and feel seen and heard. I knew there were others that did too. And so, I just did it. But now you can actually do it and do it thoughtfully and be successful at it. And I never saw that. And so I'm real excited. Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. I'm excited too. And just already hearing a little bit about all these lovely women that we have today on the podcast, I'm already like, inspired by all of your guys' stories and what you guys are doing, especially as a young woman who also wants to go into the field of helping people and creating authentic community. So I can't wait to hear more about all your guys' journeys and stories. Yeah, let's get started. All right. Let's do it. All right. So first question, what does authentic community engagement actually look like in practice across your organization or within your sphere of influence? Now I'll start. I will start. So, for me, it just looks like doing it. In doing it scared and not knowing how to do it. And I used to try to find like the right class or course or like, you know, the language cuz all the terminology just kept changing and sometimes I still can't keep up. I'm like, oh my God. Like, and at the end of the day it really is just seeing people for who they are and being honest and transparent and understanding that my perspective is not your perspective and we're all different and we all come from different places. And so I just try to keep that in my head every single day. And even when I don't understand something, I just ask a question and not automatically think it's wrong. Yeah. Because I don't understand it. Now I have had to unlearn that behavior cuz growing up in the nonprofit or building my career nonprofit, I was really taught that if I didn't understand it, then it must be wrong or let's poke holes in it. Right. And so I have learned that if it's wrong or if I don't understand it, I just don't understand it. And sometimes I don't need to. I love that. I'm gonna rift off you if you don't mind. Yeah. Darnisha. I think, you know, I would concur with your experience and then I'd just add something based on my journey, which is seeing people and understanding people, but also being understood. For me, being able to take up space I think has been a part of my authentic journey because it wasn't a part of my upbringing. And so, I think living small for the most, you know, majority of your license. Especially as a female. I think as you become more comfortable with your voice, more, more comfortable taking up space, more comfortable not having the answer or understanding sometimes the context around you, right? But understanding the sheer emotion and understanding your passion and those things I think are important to guide us as women. But I think also as leaders, right? That, that we understand that we don't have to have all of the nuance to a discussion. But understanding how it may be impactful to us or people that look like us or live in the same places we live, I think is really important. So for me, that taking up space becomes a critical element of my journey and has evolved over time for sure. So my authentic self would be showing up, taking space unapologetically, and also being willing to share that space in order to co-create and understand. The world together and through a shared lens in most instances. Yeah. I have to agree. And I think the way that we voice it is we say we speak human because we are so used to with government and projects. It's like, let's go to community and let's tell'em about this project, and they need to tell us what they think. For us, it's about stopping and thinking about the person we're approaching and how do we make this less extractive? What do they need to engage with us? How do I need to provide the experience? What's going through their community? What is the immediate need that doesn't allow them to pay attention to whatever it is we're trying to help them with or bring to their community and not assume that everything is important to community. From the government perspective, cuz that's who we work with, correct. It's institutions, governments, and teaching our clients, teaching our teams that to understand that not everything, because you as an engineer or you as a communications person understand it's important. It may not be to community, and every community is different and we need to take time to even say hello and build relationships before you do the engagement. Who are you talking to? How do you go talk to somebody if you don't know them? I don't talk to strangers. I don't think anybody hears talk to strangers. Somebody has introduced you we're like, maybe sometimes. Yeah, I know sometimes too. I know just my daughters are always like, mom, can we just go now? But I mean, generally speaking, we need to build relationships. We don't do that anymore because we don't live immediately to our communities anymore. And we miss that part. The building, the relationships with community members. And that's just everything I'm always pushing for is build the relationship first and then we can talk about your project. You have to give us time to build the relationships. For me, it's still being my authentic self. When I walk into a room, I introduce myself as Dr. Roxanne Greene. Not because as you should, as right. You should not. Cause I am trying to be something. It's because growing up a woman, growing up a woman of color, I was taught and raised that you need to be demure. And demure means being quiet, being unseen and in the back. And I am now living my life. I'm. I'm living my life in a way that's authentic, and that means bursting into the door and proclaiming I am here. Whether that be when you see me or whether that be introducing myself as doctor the PhD, I'm earned because my male counterparts always introduced and they're never ashamed of their accomplishments. And for me, every time I introduce myself as who I am, that is a step towards being my authentic self and the work that I do. I'm now looking for the voices in the back so that I can bring them up with me. What is your name? Who are you? What are your accomplishments? Let's celebrate you. Because growing up in the South, you are taught as a woman, and again, as a woman of color, you don't celebrate those things. That's boasting, but it's really not. It's you celebrating yourself and I am pushing that. We do not, we are not gonna be ashamed of that anymore. It's not a bad thing to celebrate who you are. So that's me being my authentic self, and that is part of the work that I'm doing. Put some respect on that. I'm saying, I was like, they talk about like having your personal, like board of directors or your people, like y'all are my people. Cause each one of you're saying something I can relate to. Like, I need to work on that. Right. So I need to be around that so I can see like, it's okay to show up and be like, I am, I barely introduce myself as the owner of Black Coffee. I'm like, oh, I'm Darnisha. You know? And they're like, oh, because I was taught to be humble. If you're not humble, then it's gonna be taken away from you, or you're not gonna get it. And so I'm always just like, oh, but yes, like put some respect on your name, but that's your accomplishment. You earned that. Yes. And I have to just practice that and put myself around that. And I would just say that to everyone that's listening. If you notice something in yourself that, you know, put yourself around that, you know, so you can see it in action and then. Practice it, but you have to see it. So I love that. Thank you for sharing that. I'm like, yes. Shoot. I love so many things that everyone said. And there's like all these like ping, you know, resonating. Someone was telling me recently, not in particular more on a personal level, but how we treat ourselves and how we respect ourselves. So like, introducing yourself as Dr. Roxanne or the owner of Black Coffee and not diminishing ourselves is the way that we are showing respect to ourselves and how how we treat ourselves is also, you know, connected to how we treat others. And so in our government work Marcello, when you're talking about. You know, all the government departments have their master plans and they, you know, quote unquote want to hear from community. But how have we made it really resonate with community members? Like if you're talking in your, you know, in your industry speak, and you're not able to convey why this is meaningful to, you know, someone who just is our neighbor. Like they don't know all the you know, technical jargon that you're using you're not making a real connection making it meaningful for both people in the interaction. And so you're missing the opportunity. So that's how, like all these things around. Making a meaningful connection on a personal level, but also when you're working together, how are your how are your goals intersecting? And so is it meaningful for them as a community member? Like if this road comes through your neighborhood, how's it gonna impact your neighbors on a day-to-day basis? Or, and then how, as a city, how can we best represent our community? I like how you mentioned about like, respect to yourself. A couple you guys mentioned how in the past, like you've kept yourself small and now you're just putting yourself out there, taking up space. How was that transition to you and what kind of advice would you give to anyone that's currently maybe like in that position where you were, that's keeping theirselves small, but wants to go out there and wants to take up that space and wants to show them. This is who I am, this is what I can bring. Like putting that, that their title and not feeling guilty. Like, this is who I am, this is what I can bring. What kind of advice would you give? How was that transition from just being small and then just taking up the space? Well, I'll jump in. This is Melanie. I, I think for me, just to kind of encapsulate a story fairly quickly, I grew up in a small neighborhood, right? So most of my life was a 30 mile radius concentrated with black people or other people of color in poverty. And so when you think about that world and then going into a place like academia, right? Which for me, I was like, dang, what is that? Some kind of nut, you know, I didn't know what they was being referenced, right when that terminology was being used. When I first started college at the community college level. And you know, you get exposed to things and your world opens up a little bit. And so education was the way that my world opened up. And through that, I learned to take up space. It was challenging my peers and that space around. How they were applying certain theory or applying certain, you know, definitions that were very much derogatory towards people of color or in particularly poor people. And so for me, I acquired voice by pushing up against those instances of oppression, right? And marginalization. And I got good at it, right? You get good at debate and you know, when you're good at debate people are in the room like, Hey, yeah, I agree, ra, right? They're cheering you on. And so for me, I began to feel a sense of satisfaction from being able to help somebody understand maybe the shortcomings of their perspective, right? Because that's what college was about, is how do you kind of challenge your belief systems, right? And so for me, I took that with a lot of liberty and I felt like I'm never gonna see these people again. And so that's true. I can say whatever I want to, so I'll never see you again. I'm gonna go back to my neighborhood and you're gonna go to whatever world you're from. So I would say the evolution for me to try to encapsulate it is coming from a very small world with certain expectations that were very traditional very much out of a church, quite frankly. And then exploring this world where those weren't necessarily the rules, right? People came from everywhere. Not everybody was religious, not everybody was poor. And so you get exposure to that and it allows you to maybe look at yourself in a different way and not be limited by your conditions. And so what I would say is whether you're a doctor, which cis I mean tutu, right? I'm saying. I'm saying that's good stuff. So, so whether you're a doctor or whether you're somebody who's ascended through education and arrived as a presidency like I did with A G E D. Right? No matter what that journey looks like for you, it's about how do you navigate it with a sense of pride about. Who you are, right? And wherever you came from, there's gifts that you have to give. And so share those gifts. Don't deny the world to gifts. So that gives you voice, I think, a lot of times in empowerment. And that was my, you know, snapshot of an evolution of how I went from being very small and living small to being very vocal and taking up space and feeling good about it, and certainly unapologetic about it. And my evolution, I was a counselor back in Texas and I was predominantly working with, within the addictions counseling, and I would do a lot of work with different probation departments. And I started to see the disparity and the difference with how people of color were treated and the sentences that were dispensed to them. And in counseling with them, I saw a need and. It became bigger than me that I had to speak up. I have to have a voice. I have to have a say in what's going on. And also I have I remember when I was in graduate school I was divorced and I had three young daughters, and sometimes I would have to have a night class and I would bring them with me and they would watch me and they would ask questions, and I realized that they're seeing me doing this. And again, it was bigger than me. So even now, In academia, people come up to me, people of color, they come up to me and I can tell by the questions they ask me and the conversations that we're having, that they're also looking at me. So for me, it's bigger than me. I have people who are looking up to me, they're looking at me. Not to say that I am infallible, because I certainly am fallible, but I do realize that I have a responsibility. And I don't take that lightly, so I try to do the best I can. And that kind of fuels me every day I wake up because there are moments where I wanna kind of crawl back in because there are other people who have more experience, who have more education, and they're always gonna be people who have more of whatever. But I look at myself in the mirror and I give myself a pep talk and I tell myself, you got this. You can do this. You're a bad bitch. And you know, whatever I have to say to get myself pumped up because I have daughters, I have other people that are looking at me and also saying, Maybe I can do this too. So for me, it's more than me. And I think that is what really gets me in the door, and to really be my authentic self and really show who I am, because I know that there are lots of people who are coming behind me. So I'm opening that door and I'm opening that door for my daughters, for people who are former clients who are battling addictions students, everybody who didn't have someone in their arena in their sphere. I am there, I am that person that that they can say, okay, well she can do it. I can do it too. And so for them, for me, But for them also, I must be my authentic self. That's, I love that. Amazing. I do love the fact that you guys, all of you are just honest and transparent, and I think that's a part of, you know, we are, we're the elders, you know, we are those in that space. I know. I have to think about that. But someone called me, they're like, you're like the auntie. And I was like, wait a minute. Okay. Don't get, but it's true, like we are the elders. We have built careers, we have gone through things and if we're not transparent and say I was a single mom, I had to bring, you know, that's not to be looked down upon. Mm-hmm. I know back in the day it was. You know, you had to show up a certain type of way. You could not talk about what it took for you to get here, but I think that strips us away of being able to build these authentic relationships. Like it takes it away. Yeah. But still, I wanna honor you both for the learning, cuz I'm still always learning, I feel, and I am fully in transition of being my authentic self. Up until not too long ago. My safe space, my comfortable space is serving community and speaking for community rights, but not speaking up for myself. Right. So, Ooh, say that again. I'm still in that transition. That's real talk right there. So, yeah, and I think that's why that's important is there's no age, there's no timeline. Everybody's on a different timeline and we are ready when we're ready. And I'm really good at speaking for a community and uplifting them and breaking doors down for them and opening roads for them. And I'm not always the greatest at doing that for myself. And it's generational thing, it's religion thing, it's where I came from. It's been a first a first generation immigrant, it's not having a degree up until a couple of years ago, learning everything on the streets and having the right people around me to say, I didn't know that about you. Why don't you talk about that? Why does nobody know that you went back to college and you were doing this at night and still raising kids and still going to work? And because we're not used to Right. Uplifting ourselves. So I'm still in transition of being, yes, I know how to do this. Yes, I can show up like this for myself and for community. So I still feel very much there and it definitely has been having the right people, like, my team. At T v a community members, family members who look at, look to me for answers, and then I have to remind myself, yes, I know this. Yes, I learned this. Yes, I, we would say in Mexico like I burned my eyelashes during like learning this after hours because that's when I did it. Right. It wasn't that I went to college, it's that I would go to work and then I would stay up and I would audit university classes and I would learn it on my own because I wanted to know what was happening with the people that had the degree, even though I knew I wasn't gonna have a degree. Right? So it's how do I show up for myself in that effort? Even though I don't have the paper, but I know had I had the paper, like I could have a paper test me. Right? But I have to show up in that same confidence for myself and it's been that sense of also I have to show up for myself so I can show up for a community. So I'm very much still in that transition of saying, yes, this is me. Yes, I can do this. Because now I'm seen as my kids are growing up and as the shifts in community needs are ha are happening where we need to be in more positions of power, I can no longer stand back. Mm-hmm. I have to say, yes, I know how to do this. Yes, I can lead this. Yes, I can do this for community and for myself. So it's, I'm still in transition. That's beautiful. And that's a reality. You know, I'm a grandma. I'm still in transition because this is my time. And it's okay. And it's hard every single day. It takes you having to say yes every single day. Like, I know how to do that and I can do that. And I think for me it was just like it, then it became a responsibility, right? And then it became, then in my mind I'm like, oh, then it has to be actionable. Then it has to be all these things. Like there has to be outcomes, there have to be. And I'm like, girl, it is not that serious. How about just be right? Just be, just show up. Just show up and do it. Yeah. I love that. Oh, I love it so much. Makes me happy. And even without the paper, your opinion is valid. And you know, you were saying something about About being, an example for all those that are around you. And then for young professionals who are starting out, I know I was in spaces where I felt intimidated by other people and you know, it's like, well, I'm just, maybe I'm new in the position or I don't have the degrees that other people have. But to really trust that your opinion does matter and your perspective does matter, and it doesn't mean that any one person has the right answer, but as a colleague that. So, you know, they should feel hopefully supported in speaking out and that they may be saying something that other people are thinking and it's like, you know, of one of those dampers wearing no clothes situations. Like if they have confidence in their opinion and hopefully they, you know, have that, that wherewithal to be like, no, my opinion does matter and share it because it is for people of color, for women of color in a lot of settings. I'm in a lot of meetings where I'm the only person of color and so, you know, we're talking about. How certain things will impact community and people can only see, and hear about things, but if they haven't lived it or haven't, had a conversation about it, it's, it doesn't make it real. And so just having that opportunity to just really listen, like you're saying too about, from other people's perspective, give them voice to have that confidence. Go for it. And it's a misnomer that people that have paper are somehow smart. So this sister's journey, seriously, this sister's journey isn't the same journey as everyone else that's getting that paper. And so that has an impact on the intellect that you come out with them the other side. Exactly. Because that's woman of color. It's so true. I knew I was going, it was gonna be demanded of me that I know it. Yes. And I've got to show it. So that's right. I work hard, I work harder. Yep. Because more is expected of me. So you are right. Thats why when a sister walks in with PhD, thus fire For real. I'm saying that's a respect. We're gonna burn something down. Yes. That's it. Yeah. And it's a reality. I mean, I've been in meetings where I say something and then I'll. You know, a man or a white man says the same thing. I was waiting for someone to say, explain. I was waiting. I thought you were gonna ask a question about his. No. Well, you know that, and you're like didn't I just say that? And then everyone's like, oh, great idea. So I hate them all. I'll say also like working, I've worked with Sunni in multiple capacities where like she knew, you know, you just have to know who you are and know what you, just be comfortable with who you are because it, in governance spaces, like I had never been to city council meetings. I had never, so I, we always have those ongoing texts and I'm like, what are they talking about? Or what is that word? Or, who is that? And she's able to tell me like, that's so and so, and that's what that word means. And that's what I'm like, oh, okay. So just be confident in what you know and what you don't know. And that brings your, like, I, I always tell that story all the time. Like, see, they're like, oh, you know, the city manager? I'm like, yeah. Like I know how it works. Like, what do you mean? But like she was able to like teach me and feed me the information and we can all do that. And you were able to use her as a network Yes. For that information, which I think is absolutely important for women of color. Exactly. And like, the like little known secret is that there are people working in government for 20 years that don't know things that were like, oh, that's what that was like. We had no idea, blah, blah, blah. You know, meant this. So, and my grandma has the saying, everybody can't know everything that men's very true. So it's very true. You go, but man's society tries to teach you opposite. That this person knows everything you should learn from them and we should mentor you. But I'm like, you know, not everyone knows everything and we need to actually mentor and be okay with helping each other. And what, you know, I don't want to know. Facts and then what was valid before may not be valid today. That's right. Covid changed a lot. Indeed. Covid changed a lot. And as we're coming out of it, like if you really don't understand that what you don't know or that you don't know everything, like, whew, it's gonna be a hard road. That having humility is important. Like being open to learning and, you know, oh, it worked before, but maybe it doesn't work now, so let's work together and make it work for everyone. Because Gen Z ain't having it, not having, I'm just, listen, I had a beeper, now I have a smartphone. And I know my smartphone is old. Yeah. And I'm just like, I'm gonna hold onto it till it really doesn't work. Yeah. They're not. And then I'll learn the new one. They're, that's inspiring. Yeah. It's inspiring. Super inspiring. Because they're honest and they can fact check you. I'll be talking about something and they'll pull it up in Gmail and be like, or Google, I said, Gmail, see look. And they were like, oh yeah, I already Googled it and such. Like you can't lie to them. You have to be honest with them. You have to tell'em, I don't know. Yeah. And like they're not having it and some people are like, I can't work with them. I'm like, I just look at them and like, what is it about you though? You can't work with them, but you'll likely be working for them. You will be. And that's facts. That's it. That is facts. Yes. And I just love the fact that we're just having like this conversation and I'm getting to learn so much from you guys. And I will say that. Y the work that you guys are doing is very much so impacting us as like the next generation going forward. Mm-hmm. Because now when I'm going into certain spaces and I'm getting to be on the council meetings and I'm getting to be you know, associated with all these. older people that, have these like titles and Okay. All good. Yes. All the beds and you know, all the people that have come before me. And I'm getting to, you know, hear the language and I'm in the space. Like I have the ability to put myself my best self forward because I'm getting to have the. Opportunity to do that within the work that I do now. And to ask the questions, to not be afraid to ask the questions. Oh, like same with Darnisha, I'll like be in a meeting. Like, what does that word mean? What is this? I'm like, okay, now I know what that means and I can use it the next time I'm in a meeting cuz now I'm getting the opportunity to learn. And then when they use it, I'm like, yes. She smart. She all the language, you can't come for her. Woohoo. Yeah. So actually like getting the opportunity to be in those spaces and to learn from you guys. So like now I know like, oh, like I don't have to string myself. Like I don't have to do that because now I'm learning and I can, okay. Like now I know I can come as who I am and be confident within the knowledge that I have and be able to, make the change and really make the difference and yeah. I love it. Yeah. Basically just like learning from your guys' experiences. Like what should we do? What shouldn't we do? What to look out for Yeah, just learning from like just learning from you guys', experiences, what you guys went through and just basically like mentors. So it's just very like beneficial. I know it's definitely gonna be like an amazing episode to share out, cuz this is like a very important conversation to have and just like the information that we're talking about is very beneficial and very important and we don't have this type of conversation enough and so, very thankful to have this. Okay, so the next question is, what are your most important engagement values and how do you make sure these values are reflected in the engagement process? So while you're engaging in community, what are the most important values that you uphold within those situations? I would just start for me, like, it's just being transparent, honest, right? Like that's my biggest value right now. I have learned that when I over promise I be stressed. Right? And you guys have witnessed that. I'll be like, I can don't be nodding your head, throw neck out. I see it. I can do this, I can do that, I can do that. And then I'm stressed. I'm running around. We forgetting stuff. It's not. Good. It's not good for me. It's not good for anyone else. And to have learned to just, my biggest value is just to be transparent with how I'm feeling right now. And to not to react to everything, but take three seconds to respond and sit and be like, can I actually do this? And if I do, I want to. And that's a new one for me. And if I don't want to, I don't have to make him an excuse. I don't have to justify it if I don't want to. That's it. It's final. I don't want to, and I don't have to. So I'm learning that transparency and just being honest with where I'm at in, in the process of engagement. And maybe I don't wanna engage with this community, or maybe I don't wanna talk to this person, or maybe I do. And it keeps changing every single day. But if I'm not transparent and I'm not true to who I am as a person, I'm gonna get lost and burnt out. And I've already done that. I've already done that. And I don't wanna model that behavior for my staff. I don't wanna bother people for my daughter, you know, we've named her the present of this company in ho and Diana. We just talked about like, what's next for them. Like, what's the title you want, what do you want for yourself? What's the pay you want? And then how do we write the grants to get it? Cause you are owed this. What does that look like for you? So if I'm out here just being reckless, like all of you said, like they're looking, they're watching. I, this generation doesn't just listen to your words. They watch. Yeah. Everything you do they watch you. How you show up, how you navigate, how you do it. And if I'm like, oh, duh da, and I do it differently, then they're gonna automatically distrust you and it's gonna cause contention. We've already done that. We've already been there. We've already had these instances, and I just don't wanna repeat that. And so, showing up in my true, authentic self, no, no matter what that is, it's just what it is. And it's not forever. It's not every day, it's just today. And I'm okay with that Now. It's beautiful. I'm gonna say listening. You know, I, engagement to me is not what it was when I was younger, right. When I was younger, engagement was, hear me right. Let me take up this little piece of space while I got it. Right. Now, engagement to me is really in the context of my. Work. It's how do we collectively identify what's a solution that's gonna work best for the masses? Right. Specifically those that are underserved. And, you know, that's black and brown communities. If, you know, we're being honest in this space. And so for me, listening is important because what might serve me well isn't necessarily gonna serve the other black person. Well, it isn't necessarily gonna serve somebody from a Latino a Latino or a Latino community or indigenous community. It might not, might serve them our a p I community. Right. So I think for me it's about listening and understanding what's Sunni's experience. How do I reconcile that against my experience? And then how do we come up with some magic together that actually may mean your people win and my people win, and how do we see each other's people as kind of the same thing, right? That I could fight for your community. At the same time, recognizing that fight benefits my community and kind of sharing that work and responsibility to community. So for me, listening is really critical and it's not something we're taught. We hear we're not taught to be really good listeners in Western culture. We're taught to listen to how we wanna respond. Ooh, say that again. Right? I put that on repeat like a dj. That is so, and it's been my experience when I reflect back. So for me, it's not about listening to respond or think about what my rebuttals gonna be, it's about listening to understand where might we be having synergies or where might we have incongruencies, right. And how do we get on the same page and find some magic together. So, so for me, listening be what I'd highlight as a really important ingredient for me in engagement. You dropped a whole lot of gems, bro. Yes. I said, bro, look, I'm like, you dropped a whole lot of gems. I go that she, her, hers, and bro. Woo. Yes. Sure. That was a lot of gems. That was good. I think for me it's so listening as part of circle. Right. It's listening and learning. Learning to shut the fuck up. Facts. That's the reality. But what, where does that get us? So for me, it's not just the listening and learning, but it's building bridges. I have this thought, and I call it a thought because I'm not a scholar and I haven't written a book or nothing, but you're definitely a scholar. You're scholar. My experience and with the communities that I have a shared space with, for me, what's important is that we're, all of our peoples are okay. My people cannot be okay unless everybody's people are okay. So for me, it's really about listening and learning to build those bridges. And like Darnisha has heard me speak is what is our commonality that we can come together and fight for? And put together efforts and say, here's where we can work together and here's where. Girl, I will support you from afar because I got this other thing happening with my peoples. That's okay. But I know that you got it. I got it. And here's where we can meet in the middle and build together. Because I can't fight for indigenous people. I can't fight. And for those of you who don't know, Mexicans are predominantly indigenous people of the Americas. If we wanted to go there, we could do a tired, like series of podcasts about how that happens. But write that down cuz I think we should, you know, like Latinx, all that stuff, that's all census budgets, government. But what we're talking about is how are my people gonna be okay if your peoples are not okay? That can't happen because we are all put in one little bucket, given one little tiny piece of the pie and we all have to split it amongst each other. That's how, that's how the system works. Yep. So how do we fight for each other and how do we fight our own causes at the same time? That's what it is for me, is what is that bridge where when you need me, call me. If my peoples are not like dying somewhere where I need to jump into the river or whatever, and you know, drag'em out, I'm gonna be there for you. But having that level of respect to say, I'm fighting for all peoples, not just one peoples. Yeah, that's right. That's essential for me. Yeah. It's like, it just, it's not gonna change. It's not gonna change. So it's like, I always say like, we have to unlearn that it's an either or. Yes. It's an and So I can fight for my people and your people Exactly. At the same time. That's right. Society tries to tell you if you say, I fight for my people, like, well, what about everyone? Well, you ain't fighting. No, I'm not. I'm saying to you, I'm running for mine. And yours. Exactly. That's why you have like the whole Blue Lives Matter thing and like, it's like no, it's like Black Lives Matter. It is like, I had a lot of people in my community be like, why are you out there? Like, black Lives Matter. And I'm like, because it's true. Right? That's it. It doesn't mean that your is less important. It's, I'm not exactly. I'm not putting anybody aside. I'm saying this, brothers and sisters of mine are saying Black Lives matter and in this moment Black Lives Matter and I'm gonna stand with them. Right. And then they come up with all these other things and I'm like, Sit down. Thank you. Sit down. And that is fundamental course supremacy is what plagues all of our communities. So if you think about what we have in common, Right. That becomes the common thread. So anyway, it's not, and they play us against each other. Yeah. It's loss of power. Yes. It's an old trick. It is. It's very effective because it's that pie. So it's like, what are we doing collectively? Yes. Communities as peoples. It's like, let's not continue to split the pie. Let's ask for a bigger piece, like individual pieces of the pie, kick in the door and get the cake. There you go. Which is what Gen Z and these younger generations are doing. And I was at SPU last week with Diana. She actually presented Woo, like Okay with the bcu over there. It was amazing. I tried not to talk too much. I was like, tell me if I'm talking too much. I was excited, but we learned about the African immigrants that come to this country and not they're the highest educated group is like with degrees that come to this country. I learned so much listening to one of the professors talk about their experience and, you know, I never knew. I just never knew. And I'm like, oh, like we are played to play against each other and we've had these conversations here. Like we've, we talked about it. Like we, we are getting played by the system. And if we literally just helped each other, like if an African immigrant is coming here with a PhD and then they can't get a job, like if we have access to do that, we need to make sure that happens. We need to make sure that they are able to get in the door and do what they, you know, and do what they're. Educated or they have the experience to do, and I'm like, why are we never having this conversation? But these kids are doing it. They're having these conversations. And I was like publicly and out loud in a way. I was like, oh, we're talking about this. Like, okay, me and Irwin was taking notes. I was like, say it again. But I love that. And if we don't fall in line with that, like we're just gonna keep, we're gonna be the ones that are upholding white supremacy without us even owning it. That's it. Culpable. And that's crazy. But I see it every day. Yep. I see it every day. Especially with black and brown communities, and I'm just like, oh my God. Like, we're doing it and we don't even know it. So. Yeah. Well, one thing you're asking, what's the principal and with your, your what you're saying, Melanie, about listening. One thing I say a lot at work or I've said a few times, is The quote that I appreciate is the question that you ask is the question that you'll answer. And so, who wait a minute. I just wanna argue with my husband. I was like, who, Lord, that hit me. Sometimes we have the false dichotomy or the false we have a presumption about what. Is actually needs to be addressed. Like, is it how we divide the pie or is the fact that, you know, the whole kitchen has been closed off? So, you know, the, there's a, how we approach solving an issue is really important and why we need more perspectives and community perspective. Because as government entities, we're only looking at it from one view. And so, like I said, if we're asking the wrong question and we're posing that to community, then we're never gonna have the right conversation. And so being open to really thinking about what's our purpose and what's our meaning so that we are, we're creating the space for the right conversation to listen. Yeah. And to, you know, To be open. And that's what we call strategic right there. Strategic. I call that why is you here? Yes. Why? And it's, and that's how it gets done. That's right. And when you know that and you're working with people who are around you that know that it's so much easier and you get the job done, that's like, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Well, for me, it's prioritizing me, my access, my time. I'm not engaging with nonsense. If you're having, if you're asking questions just to continue an argument, I'm not doing that. I need to be a t-shirt. I am not engaging. I, you know, I, that's a T-shirt. That's how I engage with the community. If you're asking a question because you don't legitimately want to have an understanding, then that's different. But if you're just, you're asking questions over something I just said and explained, and now you're just stirring the pot with me, okay. I'm shutting it down. I'm not engaging I'm not defending myself anymore. I'm not going to defend my position. You know why this is, should be, you know, why we should be doing this, don't play. And I don't, and I. That's how I adopt some of my grace. I know. I'm like, I need to come and sit and watch you listen. I'm a little scrappy. That's some grace right here. You'all told us everything you're doing before the show and I'm, my mind is always going, don't start talking cuz my mind makes up stories. I play videos, I make plans and I'm thinking, we got a fundraiser right here. I don't engage Dr. Full name. Serious. T-shirts, fundraisers. I'm here if we get your buy. But your buy-in. I'm t-shirt number one. Me too. I don't engage a nonsense. Like literally. No, like literally. Cuz I deal with it every single day and I could either, and I did engage in it, I'm not gonna lie. Like, I would go on the internet and be like, can't hear me. You know, like I can't. And it, but it started harming. My staff, it started harming my family and it started harming me because then I put myself always trying to like defend and then it was just too much. I don't have to engage with you. Especially if it's nonsense. I need that t-shirt asap. Yeah. Because I feel like I'm wearing it. And their education isn't your responsibilities. Yes. It's not. It's good stuff. Sy, google is free. Yes. Yeah. And they would, and I, that's why I love being around this next generation. I will never stop saying, cuz they'll be like, why are you even talking to them? I'm like, oh no. Cause I got something to say. They're just like, okay. Like that's okay. You realize that it was harming you. And I think that's really another part for for us as women to like really hear ourselves and know that know when we are. Disrespecting ourselves by putting ourselves in situations or engaging in things that we know are not right for us. Oh, sun. Yeah, that was that. I was like, where are you spending your energy? Yeah, exactly. Very true. And it's really worth it. Is it worth it? Because I feel like now, like the tactic is like confuse and entire confuse and exhaust. Like there's just literally people that just wanna cause confusion, unnecessary confusion. It's true. And I'm like, I can get in a space with all of y'all. We could plan an event, we could plan that t-shirt right now in five minutes and just get it done. But I feel like we're in spaces where they just cause confusion. And you're like in meeting, after meeting and everyone's confused and trying to figure out what's going on. It's like an old tactic that's like resurfacing. And I agree. If we're just like, I'm not gonna engage in this, then it would slowly go away in Facebook fights a lot. Ooh. And then it got to the point well, It got to the point where it's like, okay I missed, you know, making dinner. I missed pulling out for this nonsense. And then I was like, this isn't worth it. And so I just stopped. But yeah, I used to, you know, I would see something that was very disrespectful to someone else and I would jump in, not even particularly my specific fight, but I would jump in. But that they weren't the person that was being attacked, wasn't engaging where, why was I Right. Who was I jumping in? It's the mom's groups for me. That's where I would come in and be like, Oh, what is that? Tell me for what? See, I'm about to use that. That's true though, cuz it's harming yourself. Mm-hmm. And then like, then we're just perpetuating like we're not healing and fixing and helping this next community. We're just doing what the others did before us, which was just, Perpetuate this bad behavior. I don't wanna do that no more. And no solution. And no solution. We're just tired now. We're just tired. Yeah. Yep. Okay, so how does decision making help create equitable policies and budgets that support those furthest away from justice? Oh, Lord. Who wrote these questions? It's me who I didn't even like write them to think, I'm gonna have to answer this. Ooh, wait, say it again cuz My Spanish brain song with How does decision making help create equitable policies and budgets that support those furthest away from justice? Maybe I'll say like, how does like, an inclusive decision making, like why is it important to have more than one thought around the table when you're having decisions? Cause like you said, like, what's harmony? You know, what's helping my community? I might not help the next community. That's right. But that's why, to me, it's so important to have diversity of thought around the table. And especially the community you're trying to help. I mean, I just didn't understand that when I was in the nonprofit sector. Like, the further I got it was white, social, like donors in front of and I'm just like, how are y'all telling us? Yeah. I'm like, what? What? Yeah, I did not understand that. So I think that's the question is like how does like inclusive decision making and why is it important to have diversity of thought around the table when creating policies and budgets that support, because we're in a new time now, we're post covid ish, things have changed and shifted. And it's time for us to make new and we can, like, we actually can now. And so that really is the heart of that question is why is it important? I think for me, saying what you're sharing right now, because there is a problem that's multi-dimensional and humans are mul multi-dimensional. You can't have a linear solution. That's my train of thought. You have to have a multi-dimensional solution. So it means options. One may work for you, may not work for the other community, but you still want to reach all of these communities, right? So it's, I know like, here's the perfect example. All of the quote unquote, for those of you who are just listening to this is the Latinx community is heavy still on Facebook, right? But then you have the Gen Z community who is Latino, who are on Insta. See, so you can't just advertise or you can't just bring information on Facebook. You have to go to Insta if you wanna reach the entire community, and let's not get into like the other communities, right? Everybody has their platform. The WhatsApp. I call it WhatsApp. I know. It's like, I'm supposed to say it better. I'm not apologetic, but it's WhatsApp. And then you have those who just text and you have those who like to read stuff on online and you have those who wanna see it on print, right? So it's, it comes down to can my grandma, who's 95, who can only re read and print, get to the information and can the complete opposite the Gen Z get to the information? That's where it needs to be. It can't be in one place, and for one people's. That's a good example. So like the solution must have options. Options. And the solution is not just one thing. You know, we think of like what's the solution? The solution has to have options because you can't talk about diversity of people and not diversity of solutions. You can't tshirt, we have a whole line, you can't do that. And then I think the Quetta, whatever you said before she went on the back, you go down the line, right? Yeah. And it's not just solutions, but languages. Yeah. And then transcreation and then short, long dialects. I mean, you can go down a rabbit hole, but until we go down the rabbit hole, you're not really creating solutions. You're creating a solution, not solutions. Yeah. Well, and you're talking about policy. So for me, policy and everything, if I talk about the context of policy within education, and we think about the history of education higher education was designed for white males. Period. Right? And so when we think about unpacking that and creating space for first white women as well, and then people of color and then, you know, pre-college students, and then, you know, you think about all these other groups that you've added on, these definitions and language that you created as you referenced before. I think the reality of it is if you don't have those different perspectives, right, this diversity of thought if you don't have that around the table, then what you're doing is creating a policy that is going to create inequitable outcomes. And I think that's what we see in education. And so I don't care if you look at a two year, a four year, a K through 12, a pre-K, if you look at the data and the outcomes that is collected on students, black and brown students are always behind. It doesn't speak to our intellect, right? So it's not a representation of our intellect that we are less than intellectually. It's that the design of that system and what is valued as quote unquote intellect in that system and experience isn't about ours, right? And so when you think about policies, if there is a policy written with one community in mind, one identity in mind that's quite problematic for. Others that don't subscribe to that, right? Or don't represent that. And so for me, in education, if the mission in most educational institutions is to represent the communities by which they serve, right? And to be able to address the workforce, at least in the two year system, that's what our missions are, address the workforce in the actual region, right? That is diversified in representative of the people that live in that region. So one community making a policy that works for them disadvantages everybody else. So I think the value is who is your consumer, whether it's a consumer of education, whether it's your consumer as a taxpayer, whatever that consumption is, I think that's who you need to be talking to around what the policy is that helps make all of our lives better versus some better, and then keeps reinforcing. I think the have and the have not structure that we've seen decade after decade. So, yeah, because a lot of the times um, you see like all these big corporations putting, putting a bandaid over the issue or having like a blanket over everything. Like, oh, let's just throw some money at it, right? But they're never like really, truly going to the underlying problems and issues within the communities that we're trying to support, right? That's right. So, And I appreciate that generation. They will boycott a brand very quickly. Listen, you know, I'm on shut it down ins, and I'm on TikTok now. There's like this big tart beauty controversy that's going on right now on, on TikTok. And it's about like these influencers, you know, they fly'em out for these trips, right? And like, they flew out all these influences for this trip, this beautiful trip that was happening. And the black influencers were not treated the same. So they went to TikTok and they said, we're not being treated the same. And like all the white girls just came after them. And then there was another black influencer that came in and said, oh, I was treated fine. You should just be happy you were invited. Wow. And so, but that's another, that's a thought, right? Like I see that in the workplace. I see that all the time. And then there was a gay white man that went on whose influencer that said the same thing. You should just be happy you were there, cuz I would sleep on the couch and wouldn't matter. You should be happy they even invited you. So I'm seeing like this conversation happen on TikTok about a, a makeup brand and an influencer, but we've all experienced that in the workplace. Yes. And I'm in all their comments like, yeah girl, that happened in the workplace to me. Like you are right. Tell them they are wrong. Yes sir. That woman is wrong. She doesn't represent all black people who are not monolithic people. That's right. We have diversity of thought as well, and you can't just take hers. And then all the white girls were on hers, like, yeah, they're, you're right. Like, you have to work hard. And she's like, no, I just wanted the same treatment as everyone else. That's all I was saying. And this poor girl has been like, she had to shut her TikTok down. She's like, I'm taking mental health days. Like, you know, they're coming after her. And I'm just like, but the people who are getting riled up about it, I'm like, yes, you should be riled up about that because it's going to keep happening to you for the rest of your life in this country. And I wanna affirm their voices. I don't care what platform it is, or if it's about a makeup brand that has happened to me at work. Where I was in space, where I was like, I'm not, this doesn't feel right. I'm not being treated right. Everyone else is having a great time and I'm not having a great time right now. I got anxiety, I got things going on. But everyone else having a great time. And I never had anyone be like, you're right, you should say something. Because that means you're not being treated right and you deserve to be in this space. Instead, I was made to feel like you should be happy. You're even here. That's wild. And even if you don't say anything, it's affirming that you're not tripping. Yes. Yes. Right. So even if you aren't the type of person to address it in words or whatever it is that stops you from doing that. I think it's just the acknowledging somebody, acknowledging that I'm not making this up. Yes. This feeling that I'm feeling is real. And it's not something wild with me cuz I have imposter syndrome and I mean, I've climbed all the ranks and I still got it. So climbing the ranks doesn't change it, but those messages stick with you. If somebody doesn't affirm that. Yeah. You're not tripping. They actually are treating you different. That's right. And that's not okay. Yes. If I see you, that's it. Yes. That's it. Yes. I see you. And that's the piece that we're missing. That's why we are always talking about bring humanity back. It's the icu. I see your experience. I've seen your struggle. I saw how you got here and I see how you're being treated. And I care. And I care, and I'm here for you. That's right. It's you have to show up for each other. Yeah. You can't have that and you can't, we can't have more of these young folks settling for crumbs. Yes. It's not the time for Crunchs anymore. We're not under the master's table anymore. Say it. We all are getting educated. We all are getting experience and it's time for ours. That's right. Right now. Say it again, Diana. Period. Period. It's with the tea, by the way. Period. Yes. I'll just say it. Yes. That's it. I don't know what that means. What does that mean? Period. Period. Oh, okay. Look, I'm Period. Yes. Oh yes. Love it. One thing that I think people get confused about is equality and equity. Oh, Lord. Equality is making everything equal, but equity is providing the resources so that pe everybody can take advantage of those opportunities. It's successful um, right. So people tend to, you know, with the example that you were saying, Darnisha Yeah. Everybody was taken out there, but they were not afforded those special different opportunities. And that's not equitable. So for me, with decision making I'm on the tenure track at my college and I have a tenure committee. So what does that mean? Yes. So with tenure, you, it really means job safety. You cannot be um, fired for, oh, frivolous reasons. It's really job safety. Can I do a A what? A public service announcement right here? Sure. Yes. So for faculty at. Educational institutions, once they acquire tenure, they're there for life. So when you have a complaint about your teacher and they say, we, there's nothing we can do, these are the things that they're talking about. They can't move. Contract. Sorry. No. That, that, that's, it's real and real tenure. It's honor. It's an honor to get that. It's hard to get. It's very hard to get. And I am I am on the tenure track, so I have a tenure, I have a committee of people who are there to help me reach my tenure. And so I was having my tenure committee with my committee, and they were showing concern that I was involved in a lot of committees. And they're mostly d e I committees. And I told them, I explained, I said, well, I'm very intentional with my committee work and I need to be in on these meetings because, I am d E I I am diversity and I need to, and you cannot be in on the conversation unless you're on the committee. If you're not on the committee, you're told what the decision was, or sometimes you'll be offered an opportunity to voice your opinion. But to really make a difference, you have to be in on these committees and I need to have a say on what is going to affect me, so I need to be on the committee. And so they were like, okay, well that makes sense. And so they were fine with it. But I do encourage people, if you can be involved in any committee work, be involved with anything that is going to have an impact on you. It's important to be in on and have a say in those spaces. That is so, so, sure. I'm so glad you said that. I would pass that advice on. I took every opportunity to be in every space. When the kids were in school, I sat on the site committee, I was on the PTA committee that was on all the committees. I was like, I'll do it. A because I wanted to know where the decision making was happening and I wanted to learn a language, but I also wanted to disrupt those spaces. And I knew that was the end goal, so I just put myself there. Yes. Even if it was volunteering, it wasn't volunteering for me, it was education. It was me learning how to get my toolbox full and full. So, and I always encourage ha and Diana and all of us have to take every opportunity. They're like, we want you to come here. I'm like, just go do it. Like, I don't know, we'll go figure it out together, but like, take every opportunity to put yourself in those spaces. And I appreciate, you know, people like Sunni again, who's like this committee or this thing is coming up, you should be a part of it. Or come see or. Forwarding on information to everyone and saying, this is what's coming up. And be a part of these conversations. This is important so you can start to put yourself in those spaces. So I would encourage everyone, especially women, yes. Yes. To put yourself in those spaces. And sometimes I have to shut the fuck up and listen and learn so I can learn how to be dangerous. Yes. If you're not at the table, you're on the menu. Right. That's it all right. One more question. Go ahead. Okay. These are so good. Yeah. Okay. So, I know we talked a little about this before but what are some of the gaps within this community building work that you all are a part of? Who is left out of experiencing the authentic community, and how do we fill those gaps? Lord Jesus today. It's a long-winded question, but you know, how do we at least start to fill the gaps? I'm gonna say out loud for me, who's being left out intentionally is Gen Z. I feel like the younger generation is being ex excluded intentionally because they will not sit back and let you just say and do whatever you want anymore. They will call you out. I'm in so many committees and spaces where I'm like, where's the representation? Where's the young voice at? Because if they're not interested, they will tell you, but that means you're gonna have to go back and fix things. Or that means that your program may not fly anymore, it doesn't work. And so I feel like they're being intentionally excluded out with language. Having them in those spaces and talking above them and using all these acronyms and making them confused when you can just ask them, if we do this program, would you come? Would you invite your friends to come? Would it be helpful for you? And if they say no, then. It's No, and let that be the fact. But I feel like they're being intentionally excluded from those spaces because we really don't wanna hear their voice, and there's just this longing to be the same and not change. Black people are intentionally excluded out of those spaces as well because they're made to feel like we don't belong there and that we are the exception to the rule. And I used to hate walking around, like, so I'm like, I belong in any space I want to be in, but I have to tell myself that every single day I belong in this space, even if I'm the only one here. Even if I come in and my nails are painted and my hair is big and I know people are gonna look at me, or white men are gonna make me feel uncomfortable. I've had many of those spaces where I feel like I'm being. Looked at in an inappropriate way or fetish, you know, I'm just like, mm-hmm you know, I just tent up. I don't like those. Or, you know, white women are automatically gonna dis discount me then I'm not smart enough and have to overly prove everything I say. I stop, I graduate with my master's degree. I stop using my letter. I stop using everything on my, I took all of my education off for a long time because I was like, when I go in with that, then I have to like over, I have to work 20 times harder. And I'm like, do I just stopped using it and I put it back on my LinkedIn and my resume often, like depending on where I was going to work. Cuz it meant either I was gonna have to work to death harder to prove that I belong there, or if they just saw me as entry level, I could just go in and navigate. No one with care. And so I have to like figure that, you know, figure that out. So I've, I know how we're left out of spaces. And it's just my life's mission to make sure that that gap is filled. I don't know how or what it looks like, but anytime I get an opportunity to fill that gap and be like, we can do it. They can do it. Let's go. We're gonna do it. Even if we don't know what we're doing, because baby, lemme tell you about chat, G B T. Okay. You can write a novel in a book, in a training. And people have been like, can you come? And they're like, why are you writing all that? And I can put it in. And now that I talk about it like real estate, everyone's like, oh yeah, we use that all the time. We use AI all the time to be more productive. I don't have to sit and think about it. I can say what should be in a sales training about learning, about teaching someone who's white about race? And we'll be like, say this. And I'm like, Ooh. Cut and paste away. And so there is new ways to do things and we can fill that gap. And it's our responsibility as the elders to make sure that they have access to do it. So when their resume shows up and they show up, we say, we're gonna put you in this position and train you because I've seen many white men and women, but put in positions. I was like, how did you get here? And why are you here trying to tell me what to do? And you can even formulate a sentence per spell. Okay, that's my ran. It's good stuff. I would answer that question, sort of the opposite. Like cuz coming from government working in in, in that area for so long, everything is sort of set up for privilege educated folks who have a lot of you know, flexibility within their schedules to access government. Like, like, oh, they got open houses or go to council meetings or, you know, people who can network and have the flexibility within their day to attend, you know, such and such workshop. And so the more that your life does not allow you to do those things. Like if you're a mom and you have kids at home, like that's one thing that the Pan Pandemic has. Has has created more access to is because now all these Zoom meetings and things that people, even my neighbors were like, oh I just, you know, clicked on it. Now I can watch it from home and, you know, be with my kids. And same for me, like all the g all the community meetings that I would have to, you know, try to juggle with my kids. It's like, oh, I can now just have my kids at home and log on. And so part of that That exclusion is also, again, like what are we as entities, organizations, who are we trying to reach? And then how are we coming up with the right engagement opportunity that suits that community? So, you know, it's not just about having food and childcare at a meeting, but it's also about is this something that, that, is this a question or an issue that is really gonna impact these you know, the community that we're trying to reach in a really positive, meaningful way? Or is it something that's like, so out of their, you know, their minds that why would they spend the precious time that they have to take care of their family to be in some, you know, random Conference room. So that's the flip side I guess of that. And how are we doing that intentionally? And then also who are our staff. So it's not just the external community, but our internal community. Mm-hmm. How are we building space where I think we've probably all been in maybe witnessed this where you go to different organizations in an entire department will all look the same. They all talk the same and yet, you know, they really value diversity in anti-racism. Yeah. Look at themselves, they got a policy. Yeah, they do. And they know all the language. Language, all of it. That's for sure. And one thing I'll say about like how we practice that here is we will Google you and your board and your senior executive team and we will look at that TV and be like, you Googled me. Yes. But we will Google, like senior leadership, we will brands that approach us and we're like, oh, we wanna work with you. We loved every, we wanna amplify the black voice and your whole staff and your home senior leadership team, and your part doesn't have a person that looks like us on it. Then we have questions because if because if you cannot do it internally, then you're going to harm us. Yes. Period. Exactly. Because you're not gonna be the training. Right? Exactly. Oh my God. That's another T-shirt. That's another one. It's like, what are you really asking for? Yes. Is it a review or is a strategy or is it A training? A training? What are you really asking for? Right. Because right now everything is like D E I R s J I, blah, blah, blah, and all these acronyms, and it's like, what are you really asking for? For me, that's what's missing. Yeah. Is I don't know that they're asking for something. They want you to know that I've memorized the language. Yeah. But I'm a d EI expert. I'm not a mind reader, baby. Yeah. But I've memorized the language. So don't ask me what byproduct means. Cause I, and answer one of the questions that I always ask. They do know first time clients is like, what does that mean to you? What are you really asking me for? Because until you tell me exactly what you need. I don't know what to put together for you. I can't tell you, oops, sorry. How long this is gonna take, or what does your team need? So we always start with a discovery process is what we call it, A T V A. Right. It's like I get to ask all the questions I feel in my heart and in my mind, and in my spirit that I need to ask. To figure out what is it that you're really asking me for? Because until I do that, I don't know what you're missing. I don't know what's missing in the room. What have you done? What haven't you done? What does your team look like? How are you talking about it? What materials have you produced? What have you translated it to? I, there's some murad of questions that I need to ask to say, this is the strategy I recommend. Recommend. And after you say Yes, then I'm still gonna go out to the community. I'm gonna ask, does this make sense? Because I don't know everything and I don't need to know everything. I need to have an idea and I need to have principles to drive my ideas and my strategies. But. Man, just tell me exactly what you need. If you don't know anything about it, tell me. My team needs training. We need to understand what this word means. So that we can understand what we're asking for. And that's what, that's not what they're doing. Nope. Right. That's good. They're the buzzwords. Mm-hmm. I learned the verbiage. So I must know what I'm talking about. It's like, You have no clue what you're talking about. Yeah. You hell asleep. Not hella away. No. We got a T-shirt line. I see. Oh my gosh. Yes, we do. We're getting ready to wrap up our conversation. And I'm so thankful for all the, I'm like the nuggets, like I need everyone to replay this episode over and over because you're going to learn so many things every time you listen to it. I truly believe that. Absolutely. And as we all continue to build community, the number one thing I'm hear hearing is just be honest and be authentic with yourself first. If you can't be authentic with yourself first, then how are you gonna engage and be authentic with anyone else? It starts with you first, and I've heard also just being. Honest at where you're at. You know, do you want to, do you wanna be the trainee? Do you wanna provide the service? Every opportunity doesn't need to be taken. And just because you're good at something doesn't need to. Doesn't mean you need to always do it. Yeah. Just because you're good at something, you can also say no to that. And I've also heard just show up with you, which I love so much, especially us as, you know, the mentors. Thank you for correcting that from being old. Yes. As the mentors, your life is gonna be full of ups and downs, all arounds and changes and I didn't know I was gonna have kids and still be in school. I didn't know, you know, there's gonna be so many things that you can still show up as you and know that you're qualified to be there cuz you're there. That's right. And if you weren't qualified to be there, you wouldn't be there. But you're there of a simple fact. You're there. And so you can operate that and never make yourself small. And never make yourself small. And so we, as leaders in the, and I know this, these ladies like we will be there. Like you can reach out, you can follow us on our social media. You can. Tap in and check in and show up and see if there's events that are going on or if there's speaks or talks or lectures or things that you can show up to. Like you wanna see it and you wanna learn, like you have the opportunity to now watch and see and show up and be in space. And just sometimes you don't have to even talk, just be in the space and learn. Like, I, watched Marcella's training for the first time, how she navigated the space, and I was like, okay, like I'm feeling it, like the things she was saying the way she did it. And I was like, oh, that's great. Like, I loved, I love learning. So just be in ever pursuit of learning and that you don't know everything and you never will know everything. And you never should want to know everything. And every day is an opportunity for, to learn something new and gain something new. And that is the only way I truly will be able to be authentic in your communities building if if you're authentic with yourself. Yes. First. Hey. Sorry. Yes. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate y'all. We thank you. Do you have anything to close out and see closing segments? We have our internship that's going on right now. That's gonna be they'll be graduating this month, Hobb and down to have done a phenomenal job. This is our largest internship class that we've had. I gave them the goal of being, of creating our space more for boys, for young boys. And, you know, I was like, I don't know how to do it. I had ideas like, maybe it's sports, and they were like, girl, have a seat. When I walked in the majority of this internship class, are all young men? I'm like, y'all, you did it. Yes. Like, I'm so proud of them. It took some time, but we're finally here. And some exciting news about the internship. They are hosting their own fundraiser and carnival night. So their fundraiser is a movie night and a silent auction. On May 13th, Saturday. So we'll have snacks. Tickets are$5. You can get a package deal for eight 50. It'll come with a ticket, snacks drink, and also pizza. Do I get a discount? I'm just saying all that for five bucks, get a Happy meal for five bucks. I know, I'm was just talking about buying four tickets to give away. I'm just kidding. Watch the intern. Yes. No, I'm okay side now. I'm always looking for a discount. It don't matter where we go at a restaurant, I'm like called business. I'm like, can I get a group pod? Yes. I'm always looking for a discount Look. Yes. But we have amazing items that we're gonna be auctioning off, and then the actual carnival night is going to be on May 27th from 40 7:00 PM the movie night's gonna be from six to nine. The door is open at six o'clock for the auction, and then the movie starts at seven. So please be there. We have flyers around the shop. It's on our link tree, on our Instagram, black coffee, n w, and yeah. Don't wanna miss it. Great. And our shop hours just expanded from 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM so you're welcome to come in. We used to close at two o'clock, so we're excited to add two hours. And as a bus owner, we give our staff, you know, the tasks, we looked at budget, we looked at scenarios, we looked at ordering, like how that's gonna shift. And now we're just watching like every sale, every hour. Cuz we have reporting based on everything. But I love the fact that we made a conscious decision to do that in considering everything so we can be sustainable and successful of that. So just a small shout out to the team. You made an intentional Yes. Decision. Very to do that. Intentional. Cause everyone was like, you should be open later. I'm like, do you know about the budget? Yes. What this is, we gotta figure this out. So shout out to Caitlin, I'm the operations manager for. Whew. For that task. And Hoen is now a barista. Congratulations. I finished my training last week. Yay. Had my first Saturday. Oh my gosh. Bless the baristas. Yes. So stressful. So stressful. But it's different. Yes. Yeah. It was fun though. I enjoyed it. Yes. And so that was a part of just like, we needed more hours, we meet our people, and so ho's up, you know, getting them tips now. Yay. But yeah, just shout out to our barista team for doing that. And then this summer we'll be back with our movie nights and all of our other events. So check our website, check our social media. And then Grounded has its own website now, which is grounded bcw.org. And they're gonna be hosting a fundraiser soon as well, the very first one for Grounded which will be a concert and a marketplace. And so we're in the process of doing that right now, so we can expand their hours because they got goals and they got salaries that they need to make, like we got things to do. So it's gonna take all of your dollars. So thank you so much for listening to our episode today. You can follow us on all social media networks and then anywhere that you play your podcast, we're on all those platforms and like, subscribe and follow and then Grounded Conversations. Our next couple episodes are gonna be, Fire. We got a therapy episode coming up with our therapist that we have partnered with here, but does our Grounded Girls program. And we have another one with who's the next one? With Nere. Td Yes. And the Lavender Rights Project as well. We've got some really nice, very nice episodes coming up, so stay tuned. Yep. So stay tuned and make sure you follow us. And again, we got bills to pay, so go ahead and like, and subscribe and download And buy coffee. And buy coffee. Yes. Lots of coffee. Lots of coffee. And with that, thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next time. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to Grounded Conversations by Black Coffee Northwest. We hope you enjoyed and connected with the conversation. Now we wanna keep this going, so if you're in the area, join us in person at Black Coffee Northwest in Shoreline, Washington, just a few minutes outside of Seattle. Otherwise, connect with us on Instagram, Twitter, and on your favorite social media pod. Form we're at Black Coffee NW on everything. You can also shop our beans and March on our website@www.black coffee nw.com. Until next time, stay connected and stay grounded.