Mental Health Matters ft. Dr. Kristen McCowan & Alanah Dillard

Welcome to Episode 16 of Grounded Conversations by Black Coffee Northwest, an intergenerational conversation about ourselves, our blackness, our world, and our favorite drinks.

On this week's episode we are sitting down with two amazing guests who are superstars in the mental health field as therapists who are also a part of facilitating some of the amazing programs we have at Grounded, our nonprofit youth development center at Black Coffee Northwest such as our free mental health services and Grounded Girls mentorship program!

Today we talk about the importance of mental health and how we in this generation can model a healthy mindset when it comes to being aware of protecting and honoring your mental space and how it connects to everything else in life, especially with young people and families.

On this podcast episode we will be discussing:

• The true state of being vulnerable 

• The truth about what therapy actually is and what it looks like

• Having someone actively pouring into you while your pouring into others 

• Healthy ways to maintain a healthy relationship with yourself and express your emotions while in this generation 

We would love to hear from you and if any of you have any stories to share feel free to  contact us  with the information below.

Don’t forget to check out our visual recording of this podcast episode on Youtube!

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Transcript

0:43

Welcome to Grounded Conversations by Black Coffee Northwest, an intergenerational conversation about ourselves, our blackness, our world, and our favorite drinks. Grounded Conversations is all about brewing up discussions and topics that matter to the community. With our differing perspectives, our hopes is to share our unique flavors, opinions. And also life experiences to create a greater insight and also understanding. So join us every other Tuesday as we come together and talk all about things that are on and popping all over a nice hot cup of black coffee. Hey guys, it's Diana. Uh, welcome back to the Grounded Conversations Podcast. Today we have some amazing professionals, uh, that are in the mental health field that actually help us out a lot with, um, the youth mental health resources that we have here at Grounded. Um, so I'm gonna say their bios really quickly and then we can get started with the conversation. Uh, so first off, we have a Dr. Kristen, um, McCowen. Okay. Uh, who is a professor of social work, uh, a community-based researcher, facilitator, and youth development scholar. Prior to obtaining her PhD, uh, she worked as a psychiatric social worker and substance use counselor with adult and adolescence. Uh, Dr. K's research focuses on adolescent wellbeing and social political development As a community research consultant, Kristen has, um, worked with many local organizations on program design and ev um, evaluation. Survey development and implementation and community engagement strategy strategies. And Dr. K also provides, uh, facilitative guidance to a variety of organizations in an effort to strengthen and support and maintain healthy interpersonal relations, um, among staff members. All right. And then we have Ms. Elena here, Ms. El Elena Dillard. Um, Who is the owner of Ace Odyssey Counseling Services, P L L C A mental health counseling and consultant group. As a licensed marriage and family therapist and clinical supervisor, Elena considers herself a relational spacemaker. Ooh, I like that. Helping individuals and families make space for healing and new self discoveries. Over the last decade, Elena has worked alongside community forward and youth centered organizations, helping to educate others on mental health matters, build, uh, behavioral health departments, and cultivate a collective commitment to pursue holistic wellness even after life's hardships. She has been awarded the Washington Association. For Marriage and Family Therapy Student Award. Congratulations on that. Um, um, and is two-time a recipient of the Charles D. York and Cheryl l Storm Award Scholarship been featured in Urban Faith and Home Hope Link Magazine. She is also the ed, uh, executed visionary of the 2020 Freedom Room, located in Seattle Central District as tribute and dedication to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Um, Elena also serves on the executive board of her beloved sorority, Zeta Fay Beta Sorority Inc. Incorporated, and um, is an active member of her church. Elena reminds all of us, everywhere you go, you take you with you. Be the best you you can be. I love that. Thank you. Okay, so we always start off with what we're drinking. So what are we guys drinking today? I'm gonna jump in. I'm drinking this peach Italian soda. Thank you. Complimentary Black Coffee Northwest. Um, I was feeling a little tired today, but I didn't wanna drink any energy drinks. So peach Italian soda is my flavor of the hour. Okay, well, I'm kind of an ick because I, I was, I'm almost done with this, but, um, I was drinking on some, um, dragonfruit peach, uh, red Bull slushy, which is really good. Um, one of our barista leads actually put me onto, uh, that flavored combo, so thank you. Nice. Yep. I am drinking on some water. Um, H two on the building. Yeah. Over the age two. A few o's. Yes. I have my water bottle down here too. Yes. Need that too. And we're gonna talk about that later. A little bit of hydration and the importance of water. So, facts, you, you're already had a game sting. Yes. Yes. Okay, so first of all, I, I wanna, um, kind of give the viewers and listeners a brief overview, but over overview of how you guys, um, help us out with the youth around here. Like what are you guys' roles and how, how you guys also like facilitate your work within your own personal jobs as well, Dr. Kk. All right, cool. Um, so let's see. I'll start with a broad overview. My jobs, so I'm a researcher, um, by training and I am, uh, currently the director of research partnerships at a local organization called, uh, the Community Center for Education Results. It's a nonprofit, it's a backbone agency for like collective impact work, um, in education through South Seattle and South King County. Um, Let's see. So that's one. Uh, two. I, uh, am a professor of social work at U-Dub School of Social Work. I teach, um, undergraduates social welfare policy and graduate students. Um, I teach them how to facilitate group dialogue. Hmm. Um, So that's my work, like, yes, for like main day to day. What I do here, um, is I lead, um, youth mental health groups and so young people who, um, are interested, uh, and from shoreline typically, um, come to groups and we mainly talk about yeah, how to sustain our wellness, um, and what that looks like. And with young people it is, it's really much, it's a lot of, uh, just raising awareness. Mm-hmm. You know, um mm-hmm. Oh, did you notice that? Oh, that was crazy. You know, that kind of stuff. And then they're just like kind of waking up to what's happening. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. That's excellent work. I also, um, work in the nonprofit world. I am a program director for a youth engagement program here in the greater Seattle area. We actually. Um, hit from, gosh, from Edmonds all the way down to Black Diamonds. So we cover all King County working with youth 12 to 17 who are at risk or are currently houseless and homeless. Um, truancy issues, emancipation, just other things that, uh, are barriers and that are impacts to our youth trying to, uh, create some stability kind of in the world, especially in this new generation of social media. I mean, we'll get to talking about that later, but, uh, working specific with youth as a program director and a, um, community therapist, hashtag neighborhood therapist. Um, and then also what I do with the Grounded Girls. We are so excited. We're finishing up. I'm the, um, program manager for that here at Grounded and we are finishing up our first cohort yes. Of our Grounded Mentorship girls, and, uh, look forward to, you know, making some modifications and changes and being able to open up applications and interested folks in the future coming this fall. So if you are a youth between. Uh, I think we as young as third grade, second grade, yeah. All the way through high school. If you are a young lady that's looking for some mentorship here in the Shoreline, greater Shoreline area, feel free to reach out to Grounded because we have a mentorship program that is building, developing and growing, uh, as long as, as well as our grant we have with King County Public Libraries. So we also have a partnership with them, which is really exciting, uh, to continue to reinforce scholarship and education as well as mental wellness is what we're talking about today, about holistic care, so your mind matters, um, across the board. So those are some of the exciting things I'm up to these days. Yes, I love that. Um, that was a perfect explanation about what we're gonna be talking about today. So, um, guys, the topic today is of course, mental health awareness, um, especially within youth today, um, in this generations and the importance of doing the work, the importance of, um, The topic itself and you know, actually being able to have access to mental health services mm-hmm. And the benefits for that. Um, so with that, I'm gonna start with our first question. So I would Okay. You guys already told me a little bit about the work that you guys do, but I wanna know, um, within, uh, a little bit of your background in working with youth. Uh, why do you do the work, um, for yourself? Like why did you choose to go into this, um, pathway in career and why is it important? Mm-hmm. I'll jump in. Um, I wanna be the person I didn't have. Mm-hmm. I had an amazing support group. I grew up not too, uh, just south of here. And I had coaches, I had teachers, I had mentors, I had my friends as parents that really contribute to my life, but I didn't have somebody I could really be completely vulnerable and open about and be able to gimme some perspective unbiasedly. Mm-hmm. So, um, I work specifically in this field, uh, and specifically with youth because I wanna be the person that I didn't have. I also had a story, my family and I experienced Hurricane Katrina. Wow. In 2005, um, for our, our, um, listeners. Uh, hurricane Katrina was a d uh, it demolished the southeastern corner of this country. Um, and I had firsthand experience with that. I was on one of the last five planes to leave the city of New Orleans. Wow. And it was so impactful. I was in my pre-teens and I was. Shaken mm-hmm. By what I had saw in the devastation of a whole culture, a community, a city underwater. And, uh, when I got back to Seattle, I went to school and I'm, I remember going around the lunchroom and being like, oh, did you guys hear about it? And, you know, state of emergency and what's going on? And, uh, we need to do something, we need to send like first aid there. And, uh, they looked at me like, what? Like, that's all the way over there, you know, from Seattle to New Orleans. It was like a big world away. And to me, it had just happened. I remember looking out the window of the airplane and seeing people in ruins and, and the taxi driver even said, who took us to the airport was like, oh, we have hurricanes all the time. No big deal. I'm staying here. You know, like it was not the anticipation that this was gonna be a historical, iconic event. And people were, some people were. Just, um, fi like, oh, I'm just gonna shack up, you know, we'll just get some food or whatever. And others were like, no, I think this is gonna be a big one. Mm-hmm. And at the airport people, this little girl was pulling on her dad's coat. I, I, I promise you. And she was like, you know, daddy, we're gonna get to go home. And just to see his face, he was like, hold on, honey. I don't know. And they ended up not getting on the plane. I don't know whatever happened to that family, but I just think about it was a complete devastation. And so, um, initially going into therapy, I wanted to work with national natural disasters. I wanted to work with people who were in Red Cross, American Red Cross, um, areas. Mm-hmm. And then as my career in my education evolved, I, I settled into marriage and family, but mm-hmm. That's my why is I wanted to be the person I didn't have. And teenage years was very impactful for me. Mm-hmm. So I wanted to close the gap on that. And I also went to a primarily white school. I was one of six blacks in my high school class. Mm-hmm. And, um, I. I wanted people to, I wanted to see people that look like me in the field that I like to do. Mm-hmm. So that's, that's my why and that's why I'm here and that's why I work with you is my God. Thanks for the question. Yeah. Um, let's see, I, I work with young people because they keep me alive. Mm-hmm. They keep me young, they keep me, um, excited mm-hmm. About what's to come. Um, I started working with young people when I was in high school, actually even middle school, I was working in the, um, in the youth group at my church, like for the, for the kiddos. Yeah. Um, so it was great cuz I get to like dip out of main sermon and go hang out with the kids. Um, and so that was like, I think what started my passion with working with young people. Mm-hmm. Um, and just the way that young people, uh, theorize or like they, and the way that they understand the world. Mm-hmm. Like anything is possible. Right. Anything is possible. Yes. Like you can do it. Like I can jump off of here and fly all the way over there and it's totally possible. And it's like, and so I love that, uh, level of like imagination and creativity. Um, and then I just, I got into working with young people through a city program that I, uh, was working out in college. Um, worked at KinderCare with like the babies. Yeah. I was like three year olds in preschool. Um, Yeah, I just love kids. Um, and, and so that's really why I do it. I do it just because it keeps me excited. Um, and then I like educating. I like, you know, uh, helping folks make sense of things. Mm-hmm. Um, and when young folks are like, what? That'll make sense. I love like getting on their level and being like, okay, what doesn't make sense? Let's, let's think about it together. Um, and seeing those light bulbs go off is, yeah. What brings me joy. That's good. I love that. So what I'm hearing is you guys kind of came into your career because you're passionate about youth and you're passionate about creating, um, a feeling for the gap that you saw of, oh, like, I wanna be a person that I didn't have growing up, right? Mm-hmm. So that's amazing. So for our next question, um, what type of representation do you provide to the people you work with, um, that may not have seen growing up? Cuz we talked a little bit about this. Mm-hmm. Um, or in other mental health services. Yeah. I'll start. Mm-hmm. Um, with that one. So for me, um, we didn't, when I was growing up, mental health wasn't a thing. Mm-hmm. Like going to see a therapist wasn't really a thing. Um, yeah. So, so, um, so a, I think for me it's like providing awareness to a thing that like maybe your family doesn't even believe exists. Yeah. But like is something that's really important to me. It's like, oh yeah, no, your mental health matters. Um, and like we should talk about that. Um, and then just being a black queer woman I think is important. Um, especially, yeah. Being black and queer because. You know, sometimes black culture is really homophobic. Mm-hmm. And so showing up in, um, as my authentic self in space with young people being sometimes confused about like, what's happening? Oh, who are you? You know? Mm-hmm. Like, I, I don't understand. Um, I had a four year old one time be like, Kristen, are, are you a boy or a girl? And it's, it was really cute and genuine. It was just like, oh, I'm a girl. And like, yeah, I expressed myself kind of androgynously what's androgynous? Mm-hmm. It's always just start talking about that. Um, so yeah, I, I hope to show up and represent, uh, for black folks and for queer folks in the mental health field. Yeah. It goes to my point earlier about being the person that I didn't see, that I didn't experience until I went off to college. My first, uh, black teacher is my senior issues teacher. Shout out to Mr. Badly. Um, and my track coach, he was also my, our track coach too. But, um, that was my first. Experience with a black educator. Mm-hmm. And so I chose specifically to go to school in the south in Atlanta because I wanted to see more brilliant, beautiful, black and bold, educated people. And coming back to the Pacific Northwest, the diversity has changed and evolved certainly over the last like 15 years. But, um, I had an opportunity to go back and work in the same school district that I grew up in. Oh, nice. And unfortunately, there are some things that have changed and there's some things that have stayed the same and representation of being a black woman now being an educated black woman, not a student, but a professional. Uh, Was also something and is something that I take a lot of pride in. And also being mindful of that, like my graduate program, I mentioned earlier, I was one of six and my high school class was 732. I was then one of 20 in my graduate class of the only black in my graduated, my graduate school class. And I was like, oh man, this is gonna be high school all over again. And um, there are different ebbs and flows and experiences to that. But again, um, I am comfortable in many spaces and, uh, I wanna continue to, uh, be representative of, of black women and of faith women. And uh, again, kind of the Christian's point that, uh, empower in activating their curiosity in what is possible. It is possible for you to be a ceo, which I am, it is possible, yes, to have well over six figures, which I am, it is possible to, you know, all these things that, um, as a youth I didn't necessarily, um, see, let me, yeah, I just need to add that cuz. For sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because I wanna be a CEO one day too, so Yes. Well, on your way. Yes. My mentor would say, you are the, um, chief creative officer of your, already of your life. So you get to create the experiences that you want. So yeah. You are a CEO already. Wow. I love that. Thank you. Okay, so with our next question, um, it is how do you approach someone who's struggling to open up and be vulnerable, um, but wants help? Mm-hmm. I'll jump in. I love this one, and I'll give credit to, um, my mentor, Sabrina Jackson Gandy, who, uh, told us in its root form what vulner is the root word of vulnerability or vulnerable. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it means wounded. And wound bowl and open to attack. Mm-hmm. So by design we are all vulnerable because if you were to cut your skin, no matter what color it is, you're gonna bleed. Yeah. You have an impact. You have a rupture on your skin and it's bleeding. There's no one that can stop blood from bleeding if you're cutting it punctures the skin. Mm-hmm. Um, so now we get to vulner and vulnerable. You're vulnerable. That's both emotionally, physically, spiritually, sexually, all the things. So, um, vulnerability to me goes hand in hand with relationship and trust. And if you are, um, not comfortable in your own skin or that's what you go to therapy for, is to become more comfortable in falling in love with yourself. Mm-hmm. Then it makes sense why you aren't able to maybe connect to other people cuz you're not intimate with yourself. And actually for those viewers who aren't in the studio right now, my shirt says, actually, Kristen, will you um, read my shirt? Yes. It says, Every positive thing you do in your relationship is foreplay. John Gottman. That's, that's quoted by, yes, Dr. Uh, John Gottman. So yes, this comes from his, uh, research with couples and, um, sexual intimacy and closeness. But I wore the shirt today to represent, um, the intimacy and the positive relationship you build with yourself. Mm-hmm. And that creates, uh, environment and soil for you to be open to other people and other experiences, particularly if you've had more experiences that were in violation to you and the relationship with yourself, um, from, uh, sexual violations to other abuses that happen, unfortunately with, uh, many of us in around the world. So, uh, vulnerability, uh, goes hand in hand again with trust and with the relationship, intimacy with yourself into me, you see intimacy into me. Yeah. I see. And from there, you're then able to connect with a trusted person, such as a therapist or a counselor or a mentor, somebody, um, to help pull that. Out with you so that you can be the best version of yourself. Yeah. I love how you mentioned, um, about vulnerability and how, like we're already vulnerable. Mm-hmm. We're already built to be vulnerable, but because of the walls that we put up within ourselves and like the perpetuation of society, that's starts to not cry and to not do this. Right. Yeah. Right. That's when we have like these guards up and it gets all built up and that's when you have to like start chipping away at that. Mm-hmm. To get to your already your, your natural, authentic like being, you know, expressive of how you're feeling and you know what's going on with you internally. So I love how you kind of broke that down. Yeah. Yeah. That's really dope. Yeah. I think, I think about how, um, when, like when somebody is struggling to open up, I think about my young self. Mm-hmm. Um, and how. Yeah. Like I struggled a lot to open up and even like still to this day, I'm like, mm, I don't know. You know, there is a certain level of trust. Yeah. You have to have with somebody, as you were saying Elena, like trust and vulnerability go hand in hand. And so for me, um, when I'm trying to connect with somebody who is struggling to open up, it's about staying, staying. Um, and like building trust and like letting the person know that you're not gonna leave like everybody else has or Right. Um, that you're not gonna break the little bit of trust that they have in you to just be present in their life. Right. Maybe they're not gonna open up today, maybe not mm-hmm. In the next six months, but if you stay present Right. Um, enough to build trust cuz it takes time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Especially for folks who are deeply wounded. Um, all of us. Right. Um, it takes time. Yeah, and we're kind of like witnessing that too within our ground and Girls mentorship program. Mm-hmm. Like we, how we structure it, um, we have like the first couple, like month, two months or so, just like get acquainted with each other just to do like little small activities to know, get to know each other, you know, more intimately, deeper, like talk about family and like always like check in with each other when we, um, start our sessions. Uh, just like, hey, like how was, how was school today? Like, what was some highs that you had this week? And like, you know, kind of breaking through that, like, you know, oh, like should I trust this person? And like really like, you know, getting to that, oh, like I can like actually come to this person, like actually let them know how my day's going. Mm-hmm. I just don't have to say good. I can just say actually, yeah, I had a crappy day and this happened at school and yeah. So I love that. So. Mm-hmm. That reminds me of, um, a couple years ago I was managing a clinical case management program where my. Case managers had, uh, 10 clients on their caseload. And these clients were the ages between, uh, 16 and 21. And they had a host of personal issues and barriers and insecurities with food and housing and mental health and things. Mm-hmm. And, um, there's a one young lady that we were working with and I ended up being more involved in the case than typically a supervisor would be. Mm-hmm. But because to Dr. Kay's point, there's so many systems, there's so many things that she was dealing with and so many wounds that she had that it was hard for my case manager to connect with her. And I remember she called me one day and she said, the case manager said, um, I keep showing up to the park and she's not showing up. Right. Her phone's off. She's, she's, you know, ghosting me. She's not here. I said, every Tuesday you guys have agreed to meet at that park. Rain, snow, maybe not snow, but you know, rain, sun, whatever. Show up at that park every Tuesday at two o'clock cuz that's what you agreed. She was a houseless young lady. Um, she had a child and some other things going on. And, uh, It, you know, it was about 50% of the time she would show up. Mm-hmm. But after the program ended and we graduated her, we got her to a more stable place, she called me and said she really thanks the case marriage, she thanks us and the program for showing up. Mm-hmm. So it's really about showing up even when the youth doesn't to just show that consistency. Cuz the 50% of the time that she would show up, my case manager's ready to work with her with no judgment. Mm-hmm. So it's really about showing up even if the other person doesn't and in therapy that's a great place to be cuz sometimes you just don't have it. Yeah. And, uh, to have that, that trust and safety that they're gonna show up no matter what is Yeah. Is priceless, really. Mm-hmm. For sure. So for our next question, what are some steps that you take or factors that you consider to prevent re-victimization when a client is talking about their trauma? Mm-hmm. Will you open up with that one? We talked about that earlier. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so one thing that I do, what's helpful for me is to, um, is to really be aware, like of my body of where I am is to stay in my body, to be aware of my breath. Mm-hmm. Um, to know that like I am here right. And my spirit lives here. Um, and to like stay there. Right? Um, and for me that brings like a. A grounding sort of presence, um, into the room. So when folks are sharing, um, their stories of trauma, um, and hardship with me, um, that groundedness I think serves as like, you know, kind of like a hand on the back, right? Like, you, you can share this. Like, it's good we're here, we're both here. Right. Um, and it, and it also can conserve to model. Mm-hmm. Right? Um, and sometimes I visibly like put my hand on my stomach. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that like, I know where my breath is, right? And folks are like, what are you doing? Does your stomach hurt? I'm like, no, I'm actually just like trying to stay away of my breath. Because often, you know, you get caught up and you're like, oh, either you're talking about something or you're hype about something. Mm-hmm. And you're like, oh, when was the last time I took a deep breath? Yeah. Um, and so that really helps me, and I think in many ways, It shows up for me as a, like, as a way to walk with the client through whatever it is that they're experiencing, so that we can come out on the other side together. Right. So they can talk about that. They're not alone. I'm here. They're there. And then we're just gonna walk through it. Mm-hmm. We were talking about this earlier and that's, so I wanted you to kick that off. Cause I think it's a beautiful representation of breadth and the importance of, um, being centered with yourself. Mm-hmm. And I say you can't give away something that you don't have, so you can't model something that you haven't experienced. And that looks like you, again, being grounded in yourself and, uh, keeping yourself well. Especially as a social service provider, as a professional, as a clinician, therapist, practitioner, we, uh, hear so many stories. We, uh, hold so much space and hold things for clients. Mm-hmm. And if we are restless or unsettled in ourselves, then certainly our clients are looking to us to be an anchor. And if we aren't anchored or well in ourselves and it's hard for them to. Also, um, you know, trust us, trust the process that they're gonna be okay. Like, um, Dr. K said, having the hand on the back is another visible, um, that you, you physically you can do in session, but certainly in the telehealth world, you'll have to kind of model that differently. Um, What I'll add is this idea, or not even the idea, but the truth that being a therapist is you don't just come to us and like tell you all, all of your problems, nor do we tell you what to do. Mm-hmm. We don't save clients, we serve them. And sometimes that looks like Kristen said, walking hand to hand, arm to arm to say, I'm in this with you. Sometimes it's walking a little ahead the client and pulling the client through something that they're not sure that they can get through or they're un unsure about it. And then other times it's what we call one downing or like standing behind the client and allowing them to lead. So these are three different postures. Walking right in front of a client, I'm talking metaphorically, walking alongside a client in the midst of something or walking behind them, giving them the agency and the authority and the encouragement and the kind of cheerleader for them to lead it. Um, and it's a dance certainly in our work. And so when it comes to, uh, re-victimization and uh, experiencing trauma, you. You will learn not only just your client, but you know, protocol and things say around our work is, you know, are you in front? Are you alongside, are you behind? And there's the benefit and their strategy and their strategic art to how we're doing therapy. We're not just hearing it and allowing it to dump, like we do something with it, which is why therapy is so effective. So mm-hmm. We, we hope that, um, our listeners are encouraged to seek counseling or seek somebody, um, a professional to be able to walk through the hard things of life. Mm-hmm. Cuz we all experience them. Mm-hmm. Okay. I love that. Yeah. So, oh, sorry. Is there anything that you wanted to add to that? Um, no. Well, kind of Okay. Just, just Well, you saw my face. Yeah. Um, well, and just to book in this, it's like about, um, like both parties doing the work. Mm-hmm. Right? And so as Elena was saying, like, you know, you just don't come in and dump. Like Right. Sometimes you do need to like mm-hmm. Vent, let it out. Like Please. And you come to therapy to work, you come to work. Right. You come to work on yourself. Right. Right. And it is, it's not easy. It's not a walk in the park. You don't just like drop off your problems and then you would better at the end of the 50 minute session. Yeah. She's like, no, it's hard. You might leave crying, upset. You might leave heartbroken. You might leave. Like realizing things about yourself that you didn't know before. Exactly. We were talking about that earlier. Yep. We were looking at the mirror. Yeah, exactly. And so like, it's work. Um, and I just don't want folks to get the wrong impression, like it's hard work. Yeah. Today's my therapy day. I went to my therapy at three o'clock today, my next week girl. And I'm like, who Today was a good day, LA last week. I was like, oh my god. Therapist need therapy too. So it's absolutely, yeah. Okay. So, uh, you work with helping people, um, solve and overcome their problems and struggles, right? So, in what ways do you show up and do things for yourself? And kind of just talked about it. Um, you guys also go to therapy as therapists. Mm-hmm. Um, but what, how, like, how do you avoid, um, secondary trauma and burnout from your clients as well? Mm-hmm. Mm. I told myself that I, um, and I actively do this. I don't do anything that I haven't done or aren't willing to do that my client has given that I have given my client to do. So there's not an invention. There's not a strategy. There's not anything I ask my client to do that I'm not willing to do myself or haven't already done. And so, um, I very much have an insulated tribe of people that I call on between my therapists, my mentor, I have girls groups, accountability groups, I have spiritual advisors, I have life coaches, business partners. I have a very supporter. I'm grateful to have a very supportive family, extended family. So I, I very much have. Intentionally created a circle that can keep me upright or keep me my square, is what I call it. Mm-hmm. Um, and uh, that's what's been helpful to avoid burnout or just to experience, um, to, to maintain and sustain the fervor and the excitement and that passion that we talked about and remembering my why. I actually have a sign in my office that says Bourbon Street. If anybody knows anything about Louisiana, bourbon Street is the main street that you have social gatherings on. Um, but it's a, it's a physical reminder of like, why am I here? Especially when I'm questioning. Either the role that I'm in, the setting that I'm in, I know we had a question about workplace. Mm-hmm. And I've definitely crossed that bridge and had to pivot from a work setting cuz it wasn't fitting to my therapeutic alignment and who I saw myself to be inside of the work. Yep. Um, so yeah, keeping, keeping an insulated trap. I journal, I meditate, yoga, stretch, walk. I'm an athlete, so physical exercise is excellent. I definitely believe in nap therapy, sleep therapy, hygiene, all that. Sleep hygiene. That is, um, my go-tos for sure. Okay. Yeah. Um, many similar ways I show up for my, when I wake up in the morning, it's me time, like every day. Um, I can't sleep on me first, you know, so before I even go to work or before I can allow myself to be available to anybody else. I gotta show up for me. So I spend a considerable amount of time every morning meditating. Um, and then I work out and then I like do my shower and get my act together, and then I go to work. Mm-hmm. Now y'all can have me right? For the next however many hours. Um, And so yeah. Showing up for me and then building my community. Right. Um, always making sure that I've got time to spend with folks who, who gas me up. Yeah. Um, who fill me up. Right. Um, and then frequenting places, cuz this is in my hometown. Right. So frequenting places that really feel like home to me. Um, and that bring that energy. And so one of those places, um, is, uh, the station coffee house on Beacon Hill. Mm-hmm. Cause I live, I live that spot. Yeah. Um, and so shout out to the station, right. Beacon Hill. I love it. Right. And so I go in there and I'm like, what up? And they're, you know, it's just a, a vibe. Right. Um, and that fills me up. Then I can go about my day and I'm like, okay, cool. I got my dose of community. Um, so yeah. Showing up for me, um, is how I do it. And I have very, very strong boundaries. Mm-hmm. Um, around like when I must leave a place, how long I can stay at a place. Mm-hmm. Um, That's what helps me prevent burnout. Mm-hmm. It's like, oh, I gotta go. I'm tired. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that, that goes, that circles back to like, um, being in your body mm-hmm. And having that self-awareness and that value with the, taking the inventory, taking the time to in, have inventory over yourself, have agency, have honoring of yourself. Right. And we'll talk about self-care if, if we have time to talk about self-care, but that's exactly what that means. Mm-hmm. Is like the honoring of myself, of like, okay, I'm feeling exhausted or tapped. I'm very much an extrovert like all day. Mm-hmm. But when I'm ready to get siloed and be by myself and all of that, then I definitely honor that. I don't just push through things. And that's the thing particular as black women, we have done more often and we just push through like, okay, one more email. Okay. One more thing. Okay. One more thing for my kid or my spouse or, mm-hmm. And that really is a burning us out and, um, It's really not healthy, and that's not the state of joy that we were designed to create. That I believe we are designed to create it to be in. So yes, honoring ourselves and say that, I mean, Dr. K over, you were talking about the B-word, talking about boundaries. Say that Yeah. Energy management as my, as my mentor would say energy management, behavioral economics. Come on. No, but that's real. I think that we are like socialized to ignore our mm-hmm. Our like clocks, our internal clocks that say, take your ass to bed. Right? Like, go to bed. And we're like, no, just, just one more thing, one more. You know? And so like that honoring is like key. Like, you know, you're tired, right? Listen. Um, and yeah, we're social. We live in a world that says, don't listen to yourself. Mm-hmm. Listen to everybody else. Listen to this like meme or whatever. Listen to all these things, um, to keep you going because. It's designed to keep you on. Right. But just like, take a nap. It's okay. It's okay. Yeah. We were talking about the power. You said you have 20 minutes. I'm gonna tell you right now on, on live right now, I am the queen of eight minute naps. I can do eight minute naps and feel fully rested. So whatever your nap timeframe is, make sure you honor that and, uh, put that in your schedule. I lock it in eight minutes. Nice. And I wake up like a brand new woman. So really sleep eight minutes. Eight. I, I've got, it's eight minutes in college. It was, 12. Oh God. But now it's, it's a solid eight. Well, because I worked at a job, I had school during the day and then I had work at night, so we only had 15 minute breaks. Yeah. So three minutes to bio break. Yeah. Then I got 12 minutes before I gotta get back on the floor. And that was 12 minutes. Got me through the rest of that shift cuz I was the closing, one of the closing, uh, cashiers. So, yeah. That's real. Yeah, I love that cuz you can't really like show up for the people that you're serving and the people that you love if you can't show up for yourself first, right? Mm-hmm. You have to acknowledge that, oh, like I can't show up as my best self if I'm tired, if I'm grumpy, I'm, it's, I don't wanna, you know, project that onto somebody else, right? Mm-hmm. So always like going back and be like, Hmm, like maybe I do like, need to like dip out and, you know, call it a night and mm-hmm. I actually started practicing that too, like noticing, like in college especially, like when I was working and I was officer for my BSU club and I was going to school full-time, like, I was like, I'm going to bed when I'm like tired. I'm not gonna like force myself to stay up to like complete an assignment. Yes. Like, I will, I'll be the first one to email my professors and say, Hey, like, gimme an extension. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I, yeah. And sh un shamelessly like, mm-hmm. So, mm-hmm. I had to like, but you know, that came with like, you know, learning more about like, Protecting like my mental health and like listening to my body. Cuz it didn't start off that way. You know, I'd be up all night trying to finish something, but then I was like, you know what, I'm gonna bed. Yes. Like, y'all can get it the next day. Yes. Y'all will be fine. The world, yes. You'll be okay. You'll be okay. That can't even grade all in at one time anyway. Right. You said from a professor, my professor from a professor. That's If you need an extension, that's fine. I'm not even gonna get to it until next week. So arbitrate. Ok. I'll these arbitrary deadline. So now we, that, that reminds me two things that reminds me of my mom got me a sign, uh, that I have on my desk that says, one day this girl woke up one day, this girl said one day this girl woke up and said no. And the world still turned. Oh, right. That's powerful. Just that. Mm-hmm. I that like this overworking over efforting, overdoing over functioning. Like, I gotta, I, if I don't do it, nobody else is gonna do it. And that's that, you know, we can have a whole nother segment to podcast on that. But, um, it's okay to say, no, not right now. I'll pass next time. Mm-hmm. That doesn't work for me. It's okay to say those things. In addition to, uh, something my pastor has said, um, he would say, um, Dr. Leslie d Braxton, he said, everything that God wants you to do, everything that other people want you to do, your spouse, your children, your friends, your coworkers, you have to do in this body. Hmm. And if this body is not well, you only get one body. Mm-hmm. So you gotta take care of this body. And I, I take that seriously because all the things our teachers, our jobs are employed, you know, all the, all the people that rely on us depend on us. If we are broken down, it goes back to that airplane. Mm-hmm. You gotta take care of yourself before the, um, oxygen mass to your passenger mate. Mm-hmm. Your passenger mate. Oh, yep. Yeah, that's true. I just wanna plug, cuz this seems so appropriate. Um, right now I'm finishing Tricia Hershey's book. Mm-hmm. Rest. Mm-hmm. Is resistance, A manifesto and like, just the way that she theorizes and frames like rest as liberation, right? Mm-hmm. As a practice. Mm-hmm. Uh, like it's a practice. It's not a thing that we just get to and then we're liberated. It's like, no, it's a, it's a practice. Mm-hmm. Um, but in this book, she, she encourages us to reclaim. As black people and specifically black women. Right. To reclaim the rest that was stolen from us. Mm. Right. Um, all the laboring. Yeah. The working. Right. Strong black women stereotype. Yes. Yeah. Like sbw in the fields all day long. Get, get your ancestors rest back, you rest for them. And I was just like, dang, I'm gonna take a nap and now that and put a bookmark in this and I'm sleep put on my nightstand. That's fair. Yeah. Rest as resistance. Mm-hmm. A manifesto. It's good. A manifesto. It's beautiful. So for our last question, how do we in this generation model a healthy mindset when it comes to being aware of protecting and honoring your mental space and how it connects to everything else in life, especially when with young people and families? Oh, um, let's see. Modeling, I think was in the question. Yes. So for me, I think, uh, there's a couple things. One, sharing, being open and vulnerable and sharing how, what's going on mm-hmm. With you as an adult person, two young people in your life. Mm. Like being truly like, Hey, if you're a little sibling or little brother or whoever right? Comes to you and it's like, Hey, do you wanna do this thing? And it's like, actually, I'm not feeling really good today. I don't think that I can like do that. Um, I think showing up as your authentic self and like being open to sharing your emotions is useful for young people, right? Because I think we are socialized as adults to like, put everything away and like, just do your adulting thing, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and nothing, let nothing get to you. Mm-hmm. Um, but that's not real. That's not who we are. And we're actually perpetuating, uh, a cycle of like, violence to ourselves when we don't like, like honor that, um, and listen to ourselves. And so, um, I try to be open and with all young people in my life, uh, as a way of like modeling how to create mental space for themselves. Um, Yeah. And then just like raising awareness about what are boundaries, um, and like what self-reflection looks like also. Um mm-hmm. Yeah, just like stay aware of how you're showing up in spaces, um, is key. So yeah, I like that, what that can look like. I totally agree with you. Um, Kristen and what that can look like. I was, um, babysitting my nieces the other day. I, I actually, it was my niece and my nieces and my nephews. I have over 15 of them. So then there's that. But I had three of them with me at my house over the weekend. And you know, kids usually get up early at like six or seven o'clock and I'm an adult and I wanna sleep in on a Saturday. Yes. Kids don't wanna sleep in. But one thing I've created in the space when they're with me is the first. Well, I, they have to stay in bed till at least nine o'clock to just stay there. Uh, I don't care if you're awake or sleep, you just stay in your bed. And then I'll start breakfast and things. But when they get up the first, I'll say you take five and take five means they choose an activity, which can be, um, you know, they can do yoga. They can like sit there and like look outside. My nephew chose to put eye patches on his eyes, so he's just relaxing on my couch with a little cool eye patches. And I was finishing up breakfast. And then after that five minutes and they can come to the table, you know, wash their hands and everything and get ready to eat. Mm-hmm. So, um, that was not a punishment. Mm-hmm. It was a, this is how you wake up in the morning to greet the day is like being with yourself for a second before you jump into cartoons and they wanna get the iPad and watch TV and YouTube. And I said, Nope, take five and take five. It's just, just be with yourself for a second. And interestingly, later that day we were running around going to the park, doing all these fun things and I needed to take five because I was agitated. Something had happened and they're old enough to kind of. Step, you know, do their thing for a second while I just walked away from the car. Mm-hmm. And just, I had to take five outta had to breathe. I had to like, get myself grounded again. And I came back and I was ready to go and ready to show up for them again. So it's certainly that modeling. Mm-hmm. And it's setting the precedent, uh, that everybody needs to take five sometimes. And again, it's not a punishment, it's an honoring mm-hmm. That I, I'm not doing, I, I want to get re-centered, realigned, uh, and re-present with myself so I can show up the best way that I can for the people that I love. So yeah, I would just agree that the, the modeling is really important. And also da tag teaming that is dovetailing is, uh, acknowledgement. You know, Chris and I, I don't wanna get too off tangent. Mm-hmm. But, um, Dr. K and I were talking earlier about just acknowledging, um, like I messed up and I made a mistake in you and I, Diana, and we were talking about that too. And it's okay to just say, You know, I should have took five. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I yelled at you when you came into the house and you dropped your backpack off. Mm-hmm. Or, you know, you heard me and your dad, or you know, me and your sister talk yelling at each other or whatever. Like, I, I acknowledge that I, I made a mistake and I should've took, took five or took a break. So, um, especially youth. Yeah. Youth want to, you know, they don't want to hear do as I say, not as I do. They don't want to hear the, because I said so. Right. And they shouldn't have to. They shouldn't have to. We shouldn't have to. That's, nah. Yeah. That ain't, that ain't gonna work no more. Not no more. The, the youth ain't having it. Right. Like they ain't having it. Um, yeah. I love that. I love that. Um, one other thing that I wanted to add is just like also, um, Modeling healthy relationship with your phone mm-hmm. Is like so good for young people. Mm-hmm. Um, yes. I, a couple years ago my brother was like, oh, I've got this test. He's in college, or whatever. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm like, you know what I do sometimes I just like put my phone in the other room because if it's not here, I can't be distracted by it. Yeah. Like, I can pretend that like, I don't have one for at least this time that I'm working on this thing. Um, and with like the digital age that we're in mm-hmm. Yeah. We need, we need healthy relationships with our phones. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And there's like even cool things that you can do on your phone to like make that easier, right? Mm-hmm. You can put time limits on your socials. You can even change your color inverts so that you're like, the blue light doesn't like, Grab your eye the way it's intended to. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Um, your phone can, you can put your phone like in d and d at a certain time, like Yeah. It's like they make, I mean, yeah. Yeah. It's like a blessing and a curse, so. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I have to actively be conscious about that because if I have my phone, like facing up, like I'm gonna look at it, so. Mm-hmm. I have to be actively like, okay, like, let, let me turn it over so I can't look at what's all popping off on the screen, but I usually have my phone on like silent anyways. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's always good. So, Yeah, I love that. Thank you guys so much for this amazing conversation and just dropping so many gems. Like this is definitely like a conversation where you can really take up some like active like tools to like actually implement in your own life and being mental, mentally aware of your surroundings and what's going on inside of you and how to operate within the world as well. Um, within. What's going on with you in your mental space. Um, but with that being said, we have our closing segment. Uh, so it's called in Shambles. Uh, yes. It's coined by, uh, the president of Black Coffee, Mikayla. Mm-hmm. Uh, cuz she always loves to say that, but basically it just means like, what are you, like, you know, in shambles about, like, currently, like there's some things that are like, you know, maybe you're like, not so into in life or like some growing moments that like you were in shambles about, but like now you've like grown through it so it's not so shambling. I don't know how you'd say that, but Yeah. So what is like, you know, maybe like kind of irritating you or like, you know, is not so favorable in this season or, or something that you have like grown through mm-hmm. Or are go growing through. Hmm. Are you ready? Yeah, go ahead. Gas prices. Oh, don't get me started. Don't get only a couple more minutes in the podcast, ladies and gentlemen. So we might have to, um, pause and take episode two that has for that, just on that piece. I'm in shambles. It's outrageous. Outrageous, outrageous. If you, if you go to Safeway and you don't go to Safeway Fuel to fuel up, send us your number so that we can get your 10 cent roars. Mm-hmm. Because ev we need those. Okay. I need every single, no, every single time. Every single time. Like I'm, if I'm not going to a Safeway, I'm going to like a 76. Like, because I, you can't just go to any gas station nowadays cuz you're gonna get scammed. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No, because especially with like this hour drive with work. Yeah. Yeah, bro. It's terrible. So that's what's got me in shambles. I like pass out every time I gotta pay for gas and no, I'm good. Well, I got the money, but it's still the point. It's like, no, like you should have to, oh yeah, that might have to be mine too. What's, that's mine for a minute, I think. Okay. Now you have me thinking at first I'm like, no, I don't really have, everything's cool. Um, speaking of, uh, money, right? Like we can have a whole nother segment about money psychology and wealth and abundant mindset and all these things, right? Cuz certainly money's just a resource, not the source. But in any case, um, I love it. I love it. I, um, just talked to my agent actually earlier and my real estate agent and he's a good friend of mine and so we've certainly still kept in touch since I, uh, became a homeowner. Super exciting and thank you. Thank you. You have to top that up and, um, I got a notice from my homeowner's association, my hoa, that said, I, I have a balance. And I'm like, you know, I'm hoa, I'm physically responsible. So I'm like, what do you mean I have a balance on my account? Long story short, um, the ledgers aren't talking to the different systems long, whatever. But the point is they wanted me to enroll in their program to do automatic payments for my HOA dues, but it is a$3 service fee. Mm-hmm.$3 every month. Mm-hmm. Times 12. Oh no, I'm gonna just mail a physical check. I'm not, I'm, you can't get these$3. Yes. You cannot get these$3. So, um, those$3 add up though, I'm just, you know, facts, honestly, they add up, honestly. So, um, you know, I'm just, I'm cool with that, but I'm re-strategizing my, uh, payment exchange with my homeless association so that I can continue to be, uh, money conscious and physically responsible. Okay. I love that. I like that. Yeah. Every$3 counts. Three$3. Yeah. Yes. I mean, back in the day, you can go to McDonald's and get a bunch of cheeseburgers for a dollar ice cream cones. Now$3 will not even get you a four for four at Wendy's. What's up? Yeah, like that. That's not gonna even, you can't do nothing. Really. You're gonna have to say that for a couple months,$6 you can do something. Maybe, so maybe at the end of December I'll, I'll take myself out for a couple, four for fours, 12 times three. You can do the math real quick, but yeah. Okay. I love that. Okay, so, um, we actually wanted to close with, um, just giving guys a little information, some street news. Um, so if you guys didn't know, it is a sexual assault awareness month. Um, and we have like a couple of, um, websites that you can go to to kind of educate yourself a little bit more on that. So if you go to www dot uh, nsv r c.org, you can find some more. And that's National Sexual Violence Resource Center. Uh, that's their website. So if you go on there, you can find, um, just some healthy ways to, you know, know more about it and like maybe, you know, get involved. Right. And then we also have, um, ww dot i n i dot um, wa.gov. Um, and so you could also go there, um, to, uh, apply for like crime victim benefits and stuff like that. Um, and then shop updates. Um, so of course we want you guys to register for our free, uh, mental health sessions, uh, with Dr. K. Um, if you are in between the age range of you do middle school, high school. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So middle school high schoolers. If you guys are wanting some free, um, mental health group sessions, we have those available, um, here at Grounding. Which is at Black, uh, black Coffee Northwest, uh, which is just our location at the shop. So please come in, um, register, or you could just do a walk-in as well. So yeah, that's also available. Um, you're here every other Tuesday, correct? That's correct. Every other Tuesday. Okay. At 6:00 PM mm-hmm. All right. 6:00 PM Be here. And, uh, we also have our Grounded Girls Mentorship as well. So we're just ending, uh, this cohort, but we will be starting again in the fall. So please, uh, check out our social media, um, for when we're gonna start that back up. Is there any, anything you guys wanna plug for? Yeah, I'll, um, plug Reclaiming Wellness of Black Mental Health Seminar is coming in Black Mental Health Month, which is July. So, uh, shout out to the colleague and expert in the field. Ashley McGirt Adair, she's heading that up. Reclaiming Wellness. So if you are, um, a participant in a community member and certainly a black provider and professional in the. World and field of mental health, mental wellness, holistic health. That's gonna be July 21st at Green River College in Auburn. Okay. Um, there is a registration. Registration is open now, but she has a lot of publicity. So therapy with Ash, also, Ashley McGirt, you can just Google her and she has a lot of social media. So that's my girl. She's been, uh, doing this work for a really long time and I can appreciate her commitment to, uh, the black experience in the world of mental health and really being, um, a trauma expert. Mm-hmm. And helping us as professionals, as well as community folk, uh, again, attuned to our wellness and, um, educate each other. So I shout that out. Reclaiming wellness happening in July. Okay. I love it. What about you, Dr. K? Anything? Um, Nope. Okay. Shout out to everybody Black. Hey, I like that. All right. And Juneteenth is coming up. So anything happening in June, be on your socials, I'm sure. Mm-hmm. Black Coffee Northwest has something up their sleeve. Yes, we are working on some, some events, of course. Um, but last thing, I also wanna shout out our internship event. Uh, they're doing a spring carnival. Ooh. So our internship program here at Black Coffee Northwest, um, we have the interns actually come up and coordinate, um, and plan their own community event. And they chose a Spring carnival. So there's gonna be a whole bunch of vendors. Uh, so food, we're gonna have a bouncy house. They're gonna have like a whole bunch of prizes to win games, activities, all the good stuff. So bring your family, um, that will gonna, that's gonna be May 27th from four to 7:00 PM here at Black Coffee Northwest. You don't wanna miss it. And, yeah. All right. Pull up. Awesome. Yeah. So thank you guys for watching. Thank you for having us. Yeah. And listening. And oh, and for those of you who are listening on audio, you guys have to come to our YouTube and check out our visual. Uh, we just got some visual. Uh, thank you, Jesse. He's our a videographer for today. Thanks, Jesse. Thank you, Jesse. Yes, thank you. So yeah, you can catch us on, um, our social media platforms at Black Coffee n w, and yeah, until next time. Thank you guys. Thank you. All right. See you later. Have a good one. Thank you for tuning in to Grounded Conversations by Black Coffee Northwest. We hope you enjoyed and connected with the conversation. Now we wanna keep this going, so if you're in the area, join us in person at Black Coffee Northwest in Shoreline, Washington, just a few minutes outside of Seattle. Otherwise, connect with us on Instagram, Twitter, and on your favorite social media pod. Form we're at Black Coffee NW on everything. You can also shop our beans and March on our website@www.black coffee nw.com. Until next time, stay connected and stay grounded.