Harnessing the Power of Energetic Herbalism & Vitalism with Kat Maier
Nov 09, 2023
Field Dynamics
A transformative conversation that takes you to the heart of energetic herbalism with our remarkable guest, Kat Maier. Author of the celebrated “Energetic Herbalism: A Guide to Sacred Plant Traditions”, Kat shares her compelling personal narrative and wisdom spanning across cultures, continents, and consciousness. Offering insight into her connection with the natural world and how her time with the Peace Corps in Chile shaped her understanding of herbalism, Kat shares how plants have guided her connection to the sacred. Diving into the rich tapestry of energetic herbalism, Kat uncovers the significant contributions of native populations and healers, and how their intimate relationship with plants deeply impacted her own practice, emphasizing the power of 'one remedy at a time'. We learn how she incorporates energetic readings as a 'medical intuitive', and the way in which she approaches treating acute conditions versus constitutional imbalance. Kat also shares how she runs her clinical practice - walking us through the process of working with a master herbalist. Tune in to embark on this journey of discovery and learn how you can harness the healing power of herbalism in your daily life.
In clinical practice for over 30 years, Kat teaches internationally at universities, conferences, and herbal schools. She is a founding member of Botanica Mobile Clinic, a nonprofit dedicated to providing accessible herbal medicine to local communities. She began her study of plants as a Peace Corps volunteer, and her training as a Physician’s Assistant allows her to weave the language of biomedicine into her practice of traditional energetic herbalism. “Energetic Herbalism: A Guide to Sacred Plant Traditions" (Chelsea Green, 2021) brings alive the traditional healing practices of Vitalism, Ayurveda, Chinese Medicine, and ecological stewardship and essential plant medicines. Kat is founder and director of Sacred Plant Traditions, a center for herbal studies in Charlottesville, Virginia. One of her greatest accomplishments has been to train many clinical herbalists who have gone on to begin other schools, apothecaries, or open practices. She is also coauthor of "Bush Medicine of the Bahamas" (2011). As a passionate steward of the plants, Kat also served as president of United Plant Savers and was the recipient of the organization’s first Medicinal Plant Conservation Award.
A transformative conversation that takes you to the heart of energetic herbalism with our remarkable guest, Kat Maier. Author of the celebrated “Energetic Herbalism: A Guide to Sacred Plant Traditions”, Kat shares her compelling personal narrative and wisdom spanning across cultures, continents, and consciousness. Offering insight into her connection with the natural world and how her time with the Peace Corps in Chile shaped her understanding of herbalism, Kat shares how plants have guided her connection to the sacred. Diving into the rich tapestry of energetic herbalism, Kat uncovers the significant contributions of native populations and healers, and how their intimate relationship with plants deeply impacted her own practice, emphasizing the power of 'one remedy at a time'. We learn how she incorporates energetic readings as a 'medical intuitive', and the way in which she approaches treating acute conditions versus constitutional imbalance. Kat also shares how she runs her clinical practice - walking us through the process of working with a master herbalist. Tune in to embark on this journey of discovery and learn how you can harness the healing power of herbalism in your daily life.
In clinical practice for over 30 years, Kat teaches internationally at universities, conferences, and herbal schools. She is a founding member of Botanica Mobile Clinic, a nonprofit dedicated to providing accessible herbal medicine to local communities. She began her study of plants as a Peace Corps volunteer, and her training as a Physician’s Assistant allows her to weave the language of biomedicine into her practice of traditional energetic herbalism. “Energetic Herbalism: A Guide to Sacred Plant Traditions" (Chelsea Green, 2021) brings alive the traditional healing practices of Vitalism, Ayurveda, Chinese Medicine, and ecological stewardship and essential plant medicines. Kat is founder and director of Sacred Plant Traditions, a center for herbal studies in Charlottesville, Virginia. One of her greatest accomplishments has been to train many clinical herbalists who have gone on to begin other schools, apothecaries, or open practices. She is also coauthor of "Bush Medicine of the Bahamas" (2011). As a passionate steward of the plants, Kat also served as president of United Plant Savers and was the recipient of the organization’s first Medicinal Plant Conservation Award.
Welcome to the Field Dynamics podcast. We're here to facilitate inspiring dialogues about the nature of consciousness across disciplines, communities and practitioners, all with a holistic perspective.
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From energy healing to somatic therapies, from neuroscience to meditation. We believe the most interesting things happen at the boundaries of disciplines.
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I'm Cristobal.
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And I'm Keith.
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Thanks for joining us today and enjoy the episode.
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Hello and welcome to the Field Dynamics podcast. In this episode we are joined by Kat Meyer, author of the celebrated book Energetic Herbalism a guide to sacred plant traditions, which brings alive the traditional healing practices of vitalism, ayurveda, chinese medicine and ecological stewardship and essential plant medicines. She is founder and director of sacred plant traditions, a center for herbal studies in Charlottesville, Virginia. One of her greatest accomplishments has been to train many clinical herbalists who have gone on to begin other schools, apothecaries or open practices In clinical practice for over 30 years, kat teaches internationally at universities, conferences and at herbal schools.
Speaker 2:
She is a founding member of Botanica Mobile Clinic, a nonprofit dedicated to providing accessible herbal medicine to local communities. She began her study of plants as a Peace Corps volunteer and her training as a physician's assistant allowed her to weave the language of biomedicine into a practice of traditional energetic herbalism. She is also co-author of Bush Medicine in the Bahamas. As a passionate steward of the plants, kat also served as president of United Plant Savers and was the recipient of the organization's first medicinal plant conservation award. Kat, it's a pleasure to have you here with us today.
Speaker 3:
Thank you very much. I'm looking forward to this.
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What brought you on this journey of getting involved in the world of herbs and what you're calling energetic herbalism?
Speaker 3:
I really feel it began at a very early age. I was raised as a Catholic and I would hear these incredible stories of Jesus in healing. In that tradition. We didn't have the archtypes of the healers of any of that sacred tradition. What I realized many, many years after, what I was really searching for was the sacred. It was wanting to be a healer, wanting to work in that field, and not really seeing that model. I was born in 1955, so we're talking about, even though it was the early 60s. There still really wasn't a model at that time.
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When I was 12, I saw a movie on the Peace Corps and I thought, oh, that's it. That looks like Jesus, that looks like something Healing and reaching out and crossing boundaries. It was really understanding. About crossing the boundaries Again, I really wasn't that aware of what we've come to see as the white savior complex, well-intentioned NGOs going into what was called Third World at that time and supplanting our systems. Yes, it was wanting to serve, but unconsciously I also realized I was really hungry for diversity. I was in a pretty white suburban environment, well fed, well nourished and really understanding what is out there and how do we really experience other ways.
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Fortunately, I went to Chile. Chile is called the country club of the Peace Corps because it's maybe a population of 12 million, not even the population of the Bronx or New York City. It's very narrow and it's the whole topography of our west coast, from Alaska down to Baja, very verdant, very rich. If there were any closer it would be the Costa Rica because of the land, the sacred mountains from the Andes to the coastline, just profound. Then, of course, as a 17, 18-year-old we had that phenomenal Chilean wine that was drunk by all the families.
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But it was really there that I would watch the women go off and gather herbs. There was a saying it says no sea abruja. There was a saying don't be a witch, because Chile was pretty far advanced, more than Bolivia, paraguay and some of the other neighboring countries. There was this pride in the sense of we're modern and we have allopaths and we have doctors. There was this whole just as we have reservations that whole relationship with indigenous. A lot of the women would kind of go off in secret and they didn't know me at first. I really never grew up with grandmothers working with herbal medicine, my family. This was really my introduction to the plants. It took me a while but I really feel that it was the plant, my relationships with the plants, that really deeply introduced me to the world of this sacred. Then it went off into other energetic healing forms, but I'll come back four or five lifetimes to really understand the depth and breadth of these amazing beings.
Speaker 1:
Thank you, kat. Just feeling into a little of your journey there, I love this reference to coming to the herbs and the sacred through the women of those traditions and watching their activities. That's fascinating to hear. Before we delve more into some of the schools of herbalism the traditional Chinese medicine, the Ayurveda I'd love it if you could share something with our listeners of the fundamental teaching of vitalism, its roots and its evolution.
Speaker 3:
Oh, lovely. You know it's funny as I saw that Matthew Wood, my beloved, beloved friend and teacher, and he really is my guide and teacher in vitalism, you know I plants hooked up Matt and I a long, long time ago and I'm so grateful because he's so foundational, you know, he embodies, you know all three really of these traditions. And so you know I really honor Matthew because he has languaged a pretty large aspect of vitalism for Western energetics. And you know, we for years we've been looking to India, to China, unani, tib, ache in West Africa, and where is our energetic tradition? And of course we have to.
Speaker 3:
My roots are Celtic and Druidic and you know so many of their practices are energetic and so traditionally vitalism harkens back to the Greeks, to the time of Hippocrates, and they were looking at energetics of hot, cold, damp, dry and Matthew, through the teachings of the eclectic physicians and the physiomedicalists, you know they came, they really brought the six what's called tissue states and these are again are you hot or are you cold, are you damp or are you dry? And then they brought in the Methodist physicians, you know, hundreds of years ago, brought in tense and relaxed and they're really very simplified because when you look at the 8,000 years, 10,000 years of older systems. You know they from Aravada. You know we have our three doshes, but then we have the prokrutis of the doshes and layers and layers and layers, and you know just so much articulation, whereas for me I really want people to have a language that they understand. So if I say, well, your spleen chi deficiency is, you know, creating, is bloating, you know already I said about hierarchy and I think herbalism and all of the medicine we're involved in, we're really, you know, moving away from that hierarchical roles. There's hierarchy in nature, there's hierarchy in life, but as far as this ruling over, we want to really give agency. You know healing is our sovereignty, this is how we do it. And so when I say stagnation versus spleen chi deficiency, you know there's oh, stagnant, yeah bloating. I can feel that, you know there's this sensorial experience with it. So I've really loved those tissue states, those energetics for our kind of everyday language. And I might slip into a little Aravada here for a minute because you know, essentially my book was my three year curriculum because I knew I would be closing my school and that was kind of excruciating because it's hard for herbalists to find really good clinical programs. You know I'm not certain why, but it's just so, so needed. And if any of these listeners, your listeners, are clinical herbalists, you know if that's your calling, because you know the clinic is where it happens. It's like really bringing that plant and that person and the energetic and so many herbalists are desiring that. But so I really love the constitutional model of Aravada and it's, you know, kind of that body type and it's patterns.
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You know I've really been doing more and more work on patterning, fractal patterns, seasonal patterns, I'm certain you know. But for your listener, you know, a fractal is a self-repeating pattern and what happens on the micro is reflected in the macro, and you know so, yes, it will be my hybrid car outside and you know, recycling and all these things that'll get us through these times. But for me I really feel its consciousness, I really feel it's going to be that shift, and so fractals and patterns and you know, to help empower it can be so incredibly overwhelming. You know what do I do? And it's that self-work, it's everything you all are talking about, from the dreams to the consciousness. You know what you all are devoting your work towards. That's that vibration. You know, this is that fine tuning that fractal so it resonates further out. So it was a long way away from patterns of doses.
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But I do love those kind of large picture, you know. Do they have too much earth, too much fire, too much air? Because it's simply nature. You know, everybody's like well, everybody's an individual, absolutely true. And winds create the same effect on landscape, and so a Vata constitution, tall and thin. With wind they tend to be dry. So these are tendencies, this is the nature of someone. So I love the doshas and the constitutions for big picture.
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I love the tissue states for more symptomatic. And you know, there's this whole trend oh, don't treat symptoms, we have to treat the whole body. But you know, if somebody comes to me with GERD or heartburn, I'm not going to go back, you know, to their childhood or past lives or we'll get to that. We want to help relieve. What's presenting In the mantra in my clinic is treat what you see, and you might see trauma, you might see wounding, but right here, right in front, oh, it's heat, it's digestion going in the wrong direction. Let's find plans that go downward, that move downward. You know, what are other medicines that we're seeing, and seeing is hearing as well and doing that assessment. So I love the tissue states because they're a little more available and they're more accessible for one herbalist as well as folks to learn themselves.
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You know, oh, I'm too damp, I'm boggy. You know, yes, diabetes might be too much dampness, but if I tend towards dampness, what are some drying foods? What are some spicy pungent? You know how do I set my lifestyle, given the nature of my tendencies. So I started with vitalism, I sauntered over to the fractal universe and came back.
Speaker 3:
So energetic herbalism has many different meanings for indigenous astrology. But I just totally dig the fact that most herb schools now are starting. They're going back because, for example, echinacea, that's a cold medicine and so, you know, the marketing nature goes out. You know, remember in the 80s or 90s you had a cold or a flu and you took golden seal in Echinacea, and both of those are super, super cold plants. So if I'm cold and shivering and I take these cold medicines, I'm gonna drive that cold deeper. And so now we're coming to see, oh, energetics, yes, I might wanna take that Echinacea, but I'm gonna add ginger, I'm gonna add cinnamon. I gotta warm that up because I have a cold, and so those medicines clear toxic heat. You know that's a snake bite remedy. Echinacea you know, I've worked a lot with snakebites here in Virginia and it clears heat. So when we know this language we're not kind of forced into these pigeonholes. I can go out and find plantain clears heat, chickweed clears heat. You know, here are the weeds I'm gathering out of my guarded. These are profound healers.
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The vitalism really originated in our country from native peoples and Samuel Thompson, who is attributed as the father of American energetics. He studied with, you know, with Obenzin, but she studied with natives and how they worked. You know they worked with saunas and they got the saunas from the natives that they use the Lodge not simply for prayer and meditation. They use the Lodge a lot to get the heat moving, to really raise the vitality. And so vitalism is how do we raise that vitality and allow our vitality? It's like a hypothesis. You know the earth is constantly. She's self-correcting all the time and so ideally, if we have the energy, we're going to self-correct. You know we don't have to go in and use sledgehammer sometimes to do things that we just really want to help nudge the body.
Speaker 2:
It's interesting you're mentioning about the roots of this vitalism, or at least American vitalism, coming from the native Native Americans or Native populations. So made me immediately think of how Asiopathy as well, like Andrew Taylor, still also got his original inspiration, apparently from the Native American community. So that's the population who was, or rather who were, here. So they are the ancient land bearers or tradition holders of this land, and it makes sense that we've derived a lot from them, even though our own cultures weren't from here. It's just interesting to realize that that information was really only available from the people who were like really holding an ancient practice, in a sense.
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And are still here. You know I do want to say that you know, the eclectic and vitalist was definitely Greek in humoral and had that system. But so many of our American gems are American plants. I mean, you know the Chinese. When we opened up trade in Philadelphia in 1700s, you know we wanted gum powder and porcelain. All they wanted was our Appalachian ginseng. Our ginseng is so superior than their plants they had never met. You know the softness, the neutrality. So our Appalachians are one of the richest Apothecaries on the planet.
Speaker 3:
And so with you know the natives, you know 10,000 years of a materia medica apothecary. You know the enslaved. There's so many profound stories of healing that come that we've learned medicine from enslaved healers. Because you know West Africa, you know they were very consciously chosen which, which nations and tribes they would get, because they were farmers of wild rice. So they brought the West Africans here to farm wild rice in South Carolina and so many of the plants were very similar. So when they arrived they had a pattern, they saw some pattern, similarity and they picked up immediately amazing uses that then were brought into our apothecaries in materia medica. And so following that thread is absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 3:
And the last thing I'll say for now is you know, in my research I've been finding that you know natives as well as you know the black healers. They would use maybe one herb or two herb. And what was said, you know, hundreds of years ago is oh, they're so unsophisticated, you know they, they don't know enough and they only know one or two herbs. And you know, we would arrive with these complicated formulas and exotic formulas and the local person couldn't get them. And what it is is their relationship was so profound with these plants that they knew this bone set was going to show up for them.
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Not only were they administering the plants, they had their prayers, they had their relationships. So it's, you know, these beautiful stories of teaching, of what's complicated, what's sophisticated, and they had these deep, deep relationships. That's all they knew. And one of the eclectic physicians picked up on that and would give one remedy at a time. And this is what Mac does. You know one drop, let the shift happen, come in for another and then a little shift happens. So it's just so cool in the mapping of the wisdom tree there.
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Could you walk us through working with a person you know? You have a thing in your book you call sensory noticing. For instance, you know what's the process that a practitioner of herbalism works with a client and both does diagnosis and prescription.
Speaker 3:
The beauty of herbalism is we have no licensure and we have fought really hard to keep licensure out of our profession because we did not want to be standardized. And so there's cons to that, no insurance coverage and you know, validation that's a heart. I can tell you how I work in a lot of other clinical herbalists and you know so. The simplest way is to say that in general, you know we don't diagnose and we don't prescribe. That's practicing medicine without a license. We recommend and it's all about the language, but it's also about the intention and generally folks arrive with a diagnosis. You know there's a usual health intake and getting information and background information and allergies, just as other professions would have, and there's different assessment tools. Some people work with a tongue. In my clinic I would teach tongue assessment and that gives a tremendous amount of information. Is it thick, is it thin, is it hot, is it blue, is there stagnation, is there cold? And the tongue has a map with different organs the liver, gallbladder on the sides, heart and lung on the tip and so you read the tongue and it gives information. Some herbalists will take the pulse, whether it's a simple pulse or a deeper Chinese pulse, and there's facial reading as far as different lines on the face indicate reproductive systems, small intestine. There's a whole lot of science to that. Reading is also reading the voice, what's happening in the voice, observing, observing body language. So essentially you're taking the history how I work.
Speaker 3:
I've worked differently for about 20 years where I will sit with a client and just very, very simply for about five, 10 minutes most, and I'll sit in and I'll sit in meditation and I'll do an energetic reading and in some ways work is a medical intuitive. But I never wanted to advertise because I didn't want the kind of clients that you know what I'm saying and I don't want to be judgmental, but people that want to go to a nervous, they want to work, they want to get in, you figure they're going to, they want to take the teas. They know this isn't a one hit wonder here, but I over years and years of different practices, have learned how to do energetic readings and getting different information. There's a lot of different ways I could describe that, but I sit in that meditation and then I come out and then I do the regular health history and then I weave in the information I received from them. You know it's all on timing. No one's going to arrive with an energy that isn't ready to be felt or seen, and everyone knows this upfront. And it's fine if they don't want to. I can do the health history and so after that, you know, really doing the assessment, we work with plants or foods or movement.
Speaker 3:
I've been trying to get away from the word exercise. I think that's fully charged, fully loaded, and I love the word movement because I find lots of exercises damaging and exercise is shaming and there's a whole plethora. So, and I love the word movement and it feels a little more inviting, you know. And movement is walking, movement is swimming, whatever that is. So we're looking at foods and the Botanical Mobile Clinic.
Speaker 3:
You know we work with a lot of unhoused folks. So you know we're not going to whole foods and getting organic, but we are providing organic herbs and I'll tell you what. They totally appreciate it. They're equal in all ways and they are so grateful that we're bringing primo herbs or we're getting food hub, primo food and not leftovers. And how do we nourish them? So I work really, really simply with a lot of people because I work a lot with low income and you start where they're at A lot of times. You know, elliot Cowan was a teacher of mine and he taught you never take something away without first giving them something. So before you say, give up, let's nourish, let's relax, let's just help them get into their body, feel a little better. Because if you're going to give up something, it's not going to feel very good because that is a medication for you.
Speaker 3:
For some reason or another, your body is needing that, taking that, so let's work around that. You know everybody at this point knows the right things to eat, so I just love giving nervines. I'm a huge fan of bitters, you know my students are like is there anybody you don't give bitters to? And I'm like probably not.
Speaker 3:
You know they're the ones that are already taking it, or, you know, because it's all about digestion. And so the bitters are all about digestion and they're all about embodiment, because they're about relaxation and most bitters have a downward direction. And so I find that most of our challenges are mental anxiety in the mind, in the head, and so there's any way that I can help, subtly and simply help them drop in to Paris and pathetic. You know that alone will just they can do that for a month. See what it feels like to feel relaxed, to feel calm, and oh, you know, I just kind of noticed I just stopped eating.
Speaker 3:
You know it helps, it's all liver, liver governance, change it's vision. So we really want to help support that, you know, organic change as best we can and then move in. So I start a lot with nervines or bitters If it's acute. You know it all depends on what's presenting. I'm a huge fan of teas. I've gone full circle. You know, when you do something for 30 years I know you all find this right you're into something, and then students come back 10 years later oh, you were way into this.
Speaker 3:
Now you're, you know you just have to evolve and you got to change it up and keep it exciting. And then you mean a great flower essence practitioner and oh my goodness. So I'll tell you where I really came to love teas was. I had the great honor of being called and invited to go to Standing Rock, and I feel it was a calling, it was such a sacred, sacred event, and so there was no alcohol there because of the reservation, and so we had to work with teas and it just.
Speaker 3:
I revisited the profound nature of herbal teas and it's that nourishment and tinctures are wonderful and I work with tinctures as well. But you can't get nutrients from a tincture, you can't get chlorophyll, you can't have that resonant experience. You know you drink a cup of nettles and that's you're drinking the color green and that's pure chlorophyll and that's blood building, that's many, many things. That's nutrition. So, especially with the unhoused, we bring urns, we bring teas, we give teas away in tea bags, try to make it easy. So you know, most people will get a tea formula, might have a tincture if it's a little more acute.
Speaker 3:
Or the other way I work with tinctures is patterning, repattern, and this would be drop doses. And so you know, different plants embody a pattern and so when we take that plant in, it creates that pattern in us and in some ways it kind of bushwhacks that. And so my teacher talks about Solomon seal root, and if you ever know Solomon seal root, you dig it. It's a 90 degree root, and so that pattern is to help us make 90 degree changes, which are really, really hard. But how many of us need to get off the path like leave this job, leave this something? And that's very, very hard.
Speaker 3:
And your counselor, your healer, might know about your timing. You know you work with astrology, you work with field dynamic. It's timing and I don't know that timing, but these plants will just help make that turn, make that turn, make that turn and then the right moment comes in. Wow, I could do this. This is familiar. So this is a mind blowing pattern that these plants, we bring them in and if it's a vasodilator or a mother ward or you know how do I drop down. I can't do that. And so you know, sometimes I'll use tinctures for that in drug doses there's.
Speaker 1:
So many gems in what you're sharing. Like my system and my psyche is just lighting up left, right and center. I really appreciate your emphasis on healing being our sovereignty and the emphasis on agency in the individual right. Empowering the individual. That's that's crucial in this work. That's a key point in what Keith and I do as well. You've outlined beautifully this energetic herbalism as a framework whereby we're matching the pattern or the spirit of a, of a herb, to the imbalance that it's seeking to address. And I'd like to talk about plant spirit medicine and particularly flourishing, because I think the healing potential of flourishing, which is a form of vibrational medicine, as you know, is often poorly understood and explained. And it's a favorite of mine and I'd just love to hear you vocalize about how these powerful remedies are interacting with the system energetically.
Speaker 3:
You might want to flour essence practitioner also to to fluff this out. And so this is what I feel. I feel when a tincture is made correctly, that's that flower essence. So if I don't have a flower essence of a motherwort but I have a tincture, oftentimes vibrationally, I feel that that definition will really play out.
Speaker 3:
Now, for folks that aren't aware of flower essences, it really is, you know, a very subtle, subtle but very powerful. It's like homeopathy and you know, I want people to enter the world of flower essences being very mindful that they will provoke and bring on change. You know, mariposa Lily, for example, works with the inner child and healing the inner child, and I've had a number of clients work with that and it's not their time or they didn't have the framework, so that I just want to put that caveat out there to say these aren't these light, simple flower essences and that when you take them, be mindful, like give it time and space. You know, really there's a spaciousness of flower essences that I find is kind of not a higher order, but you can feel it immediately like rescue remedy, like I is mind blowing and that's a box flower essence and it never, ever ceases to amaze me. You know, during COVID I had nurses put it in their drinking water. They were frontline, they were. You know that shock and fear and tension. And so you know the flower essence.
Speaker 3:
There's different ways to make it. Generally it's one flower in, you know, very, very clear water. I don't think it has to be distilled, but I think it has to be the highest purest water in a bowl without any words. You know it really is a clear bowl. And I tell folks, look out at yard sales for kind of old timey, just plain glass bowls without any imprint, because that flower, that imprint of the flower and the medicine and that medicine definition then goes into that remedy and that's what's called the mother tincture and then you can go make other essences from there. And so these are addressing primarily, you know, mental, emotional, spiritual challenges. But they're physical, you know that they eventually, you know that's why Dr Edward Bach said I'm only going to treat this to prevent it from reaching the body, because this is where disease starts, it starts in the emotional realm. So let's really look to that and ease that in all the different definitions, because I also think in the age of sustainability these are crucial. You know this. We're not going to, you know, gathering tons of rhodiola. You know gathering massive amounts of plant material. This is, for me, definitely a medicine of the future.
Speaker 3:
My teacher works a lot with flower essences, and so there's a woman who makes these Hawaiian you know dolphin and whale and these vibrations and bring them in. And so there was one flower essence that this woman had a telescope and for 24 hours she had the whole galaxy into this her essence bottle, and so it was the essence of the galaxy, right? So we're in this deep, deep apprenticeship, we're at the base of Mount Shasta. It does not get any more cosmic than this. It's late at night, it's cold, it's winter, we're in sleeping bags, we take a dose of this essence and she never tells us what it is right, we just take a drop.
Speaker 3:
And so I don't know if you've ever scuba dived, but if you've ever been scuba diving and you're kind of above coral and you know that you're, it's like sliding right and you don't want to, you're almost like, oh, am I going to fall down in there? But you're flying. So what happened to me was, you know, was this immediate? It was like an entheogen, it was like this psychedelic journey right out there. And then there was this moment of panic will I come back? It was so visceral and once I had to breathe into it and you know, settle into that. Off we went, and so everybody had different experiences. So flower essences, I mean, that's a whole world awaiting me to go and find. So there's these experiences, not simply the plants.
Speaker 1:
I have her tail. The idea that each dew drop in the morning in the environment is in fact an essence for the constellation, for the current night sky, because it's holding those in prints.
Speaker 3:
Oh, my goodness, I love that. Wow, so these super moons that seem to be happening, like super blue moons or that, would be such a profound essence then, thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 2:
You mentioned about bitters being. You said it's all about digestion, embodiment, relaxation, and in particular, you mentioned the kind of the downward energetic thrust of bitters. I'm curious to get from you I like these kinds of questions what would be the best or your favorite in terms of the world of herbs One for embodiment, one for the opposite direction, let's say, instead of down up? And then the third is what would you think is the most sustainable tonic herb, something that somebody could take somewhat indefinitely or so regularly that it's not an issue based on their constitution or whatever, and the tonic for those who are listening, a tonic herb would be something more like, almost like a building energizing. Maybe you could better define it, but it's something like that where it tonifies.
Speaker 3:
Well, it's so funny because during that conversation of the super blue moon and the dew, I was way out there. I was like, oh, where are we going to go next? And then when you mentioned the word bitters, it was like boom, I'm back and thank you and just in some ways, knowing what these plants are, you can bring them into your body, and so that's why it's so wonderful to do one herb at a time. I'm always recommending do skullcap for two weeks and just see what that feels like, or who that is. So bitters, yeah, all the herbs. That's part of vitalism, that's part of energetics and they all have directions and this is the flavors. This is kind of who they are.
Speaker 3:
So I think roots are incredibly grounding and everybody's going to have a different flavor. I love, I find, dandelion and burdock root. I don't find them that bitter because they're very, very sweet. They have inulin, mucopolysaccharides, so they're very nourishing, they're very grounding, they're building and the flavor sweet, is building and it's the sweet of foods. It's sweet carrots, sweet squash, sweet burdock. So I find building herbs to be generally grounding and embodying and creating matter, if you will, and I find the roots really have that. They kind of have a solidity as well, as they have those properties of bitters which bring you into that parasympathetic. And that parasympathetic is rest, digest, have sex, enjoy, receive. And it's hard a lot of times when people are expanded to really receive. And so we want to embody in order to have that.
Speaker 3:
And so the rising energy, all volatile oils, when you smell rosemary and thyme and sage, and it's this immediacy of awakening and it keeps you awake on a long trip, it keeps you. I always have kind of sniffers Just if I'm falling asleep or I'm kind of dozing off or if I want to come alert. They really heighten the alertness and that's kind of this pungency and that's very moving. So there are the herbs, kind of for memory, but they're the volatile oil, sage, and you don't need much of these. A lot of times these are super pungent and you don't need a lot. Of course there's always tulsi, which is pretty pungent and very, very aromatic. It's in the basil family. So just bruising tulsi or holy basil is profoundly evocative, very, very spiritual. I find journeys with holy basil to be very, very profound.
Speaker 3:
So I'd say any of the aromatics, which is why I'd like say, for example, peppermint. If you have indigestion, you kind of don't want peppermint because peppermint goes up, it's awakening. So a lot of people say, oh, I tried peppermint, it didn't work Well, the direction wasn't right. So peppermint is very enlightening People trying to get off coffee or caffeine. Strong peppermint teas can really help that clarity. And Gotukola I'm a huge fan of Gotukola, centella isiatica, and it does grow here. It does grow local. Now it's from India, hawaii. It's a tropical plant but we can get it growing. So I love Gotukola for that. And then the tonic Golly, that's like picking my favorite child Looking Tridosciac kind of across the board.
Speaker 3:
I do love oats. I think they're nutritive. I like oat tops. I'm not so much oat straw. I think the oat tops have more nutrition. I think especially for now our nervous systems and especially for grief. I find oats to be a very specific plant for help moving through grief. They tend to be a little dampening with long term, so it's always nice to take a break. It's always nice to take a break from food, or it's what's called pulsing. But I love oats. I do love nettles, but nettles is drying so you might want to add a little marshmallow, a little violet leaf. I mean violet is ubiquitous, right. I mean it's like all over. That is such a profound medicine for many, many things from cancer. But it's nutritive more vitamin C then oranges per weight. Very mucilaginous and moistening. So I love nettles and violet for a tonic moistening and then very nutritive.
Speaker 1:
I have a question about homeopathy and this idea of the constitutional remedy, so the single remedy for a person, for their constitutional picture, as a lifelong remedy. Right, we have Nat Mer or something like that. What's your perspective on that, or do you have any insights or availabilities about that concept?
Speaker 3:
I am on my knees in honour of homeopaths and so I believe it to be true. I think we're all born. In Chinese medicine it's called your causative factor and it's an element you know. With Ayurveda it's Prakruti, it's at that moment of conception, and so in homeopathics it's that constitutional remedy at that moment of inception. And here's your life pattern. I'm not trained in discerning that. I've seen miracles happen Working with really an homeopath and folks that are working with their constitutional remedy. I think we change, I think the world changes, but we have that basic pattern. But it's not something that I'm trained or skilled in order to, to offer or recommend. I just find it one of the absolute mind blowing tenants of homeopathy. Going to a homeopath, it's what a four hour intake to fill out, you know, one time a day and you know. But that's their world, you know. And the geekier the homeopath, the better and really detailed they come out with one remedy. So it's fascinating.
Speaker 1:
It's wonderful Even just to hear your parallels of that to the other sciences, the other life sciences you know, and to see how that corresponds. I didn't know about that relationship there with the moment of conception in Ayurveda, for instance.
Speaker 3:
Right, and I'm sure you know West Africa. You know there's always that. You know Iboga now is a popular and theogen and one to be absolutely worked with, with only somebody that is really traveled in that world. But you know that's an ancestor, you know how traditionally Iboga was used in West Africa is to communicate with ancestors and origin and going to a point of origin of healing. So all peoples you know with a cosmology is simply the creation story. You know it's not a myth, it's a creation story from whence we come in and so it's so very exciting that you know we're coming to that understanding of that pattern medicine, that origin medicine, and that we're all very different. So it's just fascinating the different lens and the different languages and traditions.
Speaker 2:
You started off by saying that your connection with plants is really what connected you ultimately to the sacred or brought you into that relationship with the sacred. How might you use words to describe that? How did you find the sacred in plants? You know, I know some people meditate or whatever it might be, but how would you describe that process for you?
Speaker 3:
You know it's very emotional for me because it's taken years, from the generosity of the plants, to stay with me and work with me. And yes, I had a calling and yes, the plants were, you know, systemic. I'm a recovering scientist. I love, you know, as a physician, as I totally dig science glutathione pathway, bring it on. You know I'm kind of a top down herbalist and it's taken years to get to the plants in a way and they have taught me time and time again and I will go to my grave in absolute awe of what these plants do. I have not found a limit. And so for me it was a number of years of working with them, of them in some ways working with me to kind of disintegrate and help me change my patterns of attachment to scientific or it has to be this way or what are the limits on this. And so it was a relationship which developed, but it was also it's funny, I think. I mean I learned Reiki, I learned all kinds of healing techniques and I think the plants were my grounding and they really made all of it so very real for me and took me to these incredible places that are hard to describe and you know all of them are in theogenic. You know I have journeyed with Black Co-Hash and it has changed my life. I have journeyed with chickweed and I've journeyed with ayahuasca. I've journeyed with the best of them, terrence McKenna, 26 years ago. Been there, polanke, you know I'm down. They all have this language of the sacred, and some more than others, and some have great place, especially with mental health now. But it took the subtlety. I think I really really needed the plants to help me understand how soft and subtle the sacred really is. You know that's kind of a morphous reply or response, but I have to say it's still happening. You know, I'm still ever, ever humbled on my knees and in fact, you know, the older herbalists get sometimes we're even more humbled and we just still can't believe it. And it's a beautiful wisdom way. You know it really is and we just there's so much more to know.
Speaker 3:
I do respect the work with entheogens that's happening. Now we have to be very, very mindful of context, of set and setting, of commercialization. The sacredness who are the people where? It's medicine of place? I'm a huge believer in the medicine of place of. You know what are we harvesting? What's that land history? You know I'm in Virginia civil war. You know, back and forth back and with war, tons of war here. So I watch where I gather my medicine, where are we gathering these plants and how are we doing that? But it's time like they couldn't have come at a more perfect time because we need, you know that, to me is that technology, that consciousness, because we need something kind of quick. You know it's happening, it's coming fast. So all different forms of plant medicine to work with.
Speaker 1:
Thank you, kat, for that reminder of the importance of ethically and sustainably harvesting herbs, particularly the wild herbs that are, you know, often found in literature, and also the importance of the vibration of place, not just the plants themselves but the land from which they're being taken and the whole picture, the 360 degrees. It's so important. Thank you also for answering Keith's question. Being able to feel into and hear you speak on this sacred connection is there's been a real honor to be able to see for a moment through your eyes and relationship to this world. So thank you for that Love to ask how people might be able to connect with you and work with you If they're interested in doing so. We mentioned a couple of your books there at the beginning.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so energetic herbalism was honored to have. Rosemary Gladstar wrote the forward. She's a dear, dear, beloved friend. Well, the website sacred plant traditionscom and I'm not doing too many one on ones there less.
Speaker 3:
And I close my practice for years because, as in the bio, I had graduates and I was thrilled I had a Chinese teacher say the goal of a healer is obsolescence. And so I thought, oh, that's a nice thought, but we live in a capitalist society. But I became obsolete, which I totally loved because a practice takes a lot. And then I just closed my school last year, my three year program, and so I thought, oh, I'm going to come out as a medical intuitive, I'm going to do whatever I wanted. I'm 68. Let me just have at it and party. And so I thought, well, I'm just going to say this is how I work and what I'm doing. But I'm really finding that you know I'm working with very few people. But that is on the website, there is an availability there and I think that's it. There's everything's on the website to find me. And I want to mention United plant savers Huge fan of United plant savers working deeply, deeply with endangered native medicines. And again, a lot of that information is on the site.
Speaker 2:
Excellent. Thank you so much. We've had a wonderful conversation, a lot of really illuminating things. Look forward to actually listening back to this myself in preparing the episode, because there's a lot of gems in there and just want to really thank you for all your wisdom and what you've shared today.
Speaker 3:
Oh, thank you. This is so fun. It's just so easy to be with you all and to feel how you work as well in these worlds, in these fields, and really bringing this forward and out into the world. So deeply grateful for your work as well.
