The Implications of Global Consciousness: Measuring the Collective Mind with Dr. Roger Nelson

Can our collective thoughts and emotions influence reality?

In this thought-provoking episode, we speak with Dr. Roger Nelson, founder of the Global Consciousness Project (GCP), whose research uses a worldwide network of random number generators to measure changes in the collective human field.

Drawing from decades of work in consciousness science, Dr. Nelson explains how major global events - such as celebrations or tragedies - correlate with statistically significant shifts in physical systems. These findings suggest that human consciousness is not just passive - but actively shaping our shared experience.

We explore:

• How the Global Consciousness Project was born
• What random number generators reveal about collective coherence
• The science behind non-local mind and subtle field interactions
• Why emotional intensity - positive or negative - registers in the field
• The implications for personal and planetary evolution

Dr. Nelson invites us into a paradigm where our inner states matter - not just personally, but globally.

Learn more:

gcp2.net
noosphere.princeton.edu/index.html

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

I think the evidence is quite clear that we are connected in ways that we are unable to perceive directly. There's a kind of unconscious connection among us as human beings. It becomes pretty noticeable when we're in small groups and when we fall in love. But I think what we should set for ourselves is a kind of task is to become aware of this unconscious connection, to bring the unconscious connection up into consciousness to the extent that we succeed in that we can undertake conscious evolution.

Speaker 2 0:50

Welcome to the Field Dynamics podcast. We're here to facilitate inspiring dialogues about the nature of consciousness across disciplines, communities and practitioners, all with a holistic perspective.

Speaker 3 1:03

From energy healing to somatic therapies, from neuroscience to meditation. We believe the most interesting things happen at the boundaries of disciplines.

Speaker 2 1:12

I'm Christabel.

Speaker 3 1:13

And I'm Keith.

Speaker 2 1:14

Thanks for joining us today and enjoy the episode. Hello and welcome to this episode of the Field Dynamics podcast. Today we are joined by Dr Roger Nelson. Roger Nelson, phd, is a director of the Global Consciousness Project. He studied physics at the University of Rochester and experimental psychology at New York University and Columbia. He is the author or co-author of 75 technical papers and two books, including Connected the Emergence of Global Consciousness. He was professor of psychology at Johnson State College in Northern Vermont and in 1980 joined the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Lab to coordinate research. His focus is on mental interactions, anomalous information transfer and effects on physical systems by individuals and groups. He created the Global Consciousness Project, or GCP, in 1997, building a world-spanning random number generator network designed to gather evidence of coalescing global consciousness. He is also a fellow of the Institute of Noetic Sciences in Petaluma, california. So a warm welcome, dr Nelson. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker 1 2:39

Thank you.

Speaker 2 2:41

I wonder, in opening, if you could share with us what inspired you to initiate the Global Consciousness Project and the primary objectives that you hope to achieve with this research.

Speaker 1 2:53

It's a. That's an interesting question that could have a long historical kind of answer but can also be fairly succinctly expressed. I became convinced that we had, at Pear, in the Pear Lab, princeton Engineering Anomalies Research, had developed technology really that could be used to capture the something of the thoughts and feelings of people, especially people interacting with each other. I did what I call field experiments for a while, taking our technology, which has been miniaturized by this time in the mid 90s, enough so that we could go out into the field and look for indications of field consciousness or consciousness fields. I think more likely people would say and we found that evidence. And we also found more questions like what if we used, instead of one of these instruments called a random number generator? What if we used two or three or even more? And what if they weren't right in the midst of the group whose group consciousness we were looking at, but far away? And so those kinds of questions, along with a kind of long harbored notion about a global consciousness which has the name Noosphere that I got from Tehard de Chorin in the maybe 1960 or there, about really a long time ago.

Speaker 1 4:39

I read Tehard de Chorin and he said we're an incredibly, amazingly talented species. We have evolved from dust through all kinds of stages to become what we are, which is an self aware, intelligent being, and we sometimes think of ourselves as a pinnacle of evolution. But, said Tehard, maybe not. He thought that we actually have another stage that we already can easily glimpse. We had another stage before us and that was to become a kind of sheath of intelligence for the planet, for the earth, and he called that a Noosphere. So the combination of that inspiration from my college days and the technology that we developed at Princeton, the combination said let us try, let's see whether we can capture some indication of this in COVID, or maybe infant or gestational global consciousness. So that's the inspiration.

Speaker 3 6:04

So could you explain just the basic nuts and bolts of the actual scientific workings of this? You're saying you use random number generators. What is it about the use of random number generators, and how does that relate to indicating global or root consciousness?

Speaker 1 6:22

Good, solid question. What a random number generator does in the kind of applications that we are talking about is to generate a sequence of random numbers. The simplest version is ones and zeros. There's very much like flipping a coin, only at electronic speeds. So you can flip millions of coins and count how many heads there are.

Speaker 1 6:51

And if you do your work correctly, the random number generator, which uses fairly simple components, things like diodes and transistors you may know that a diode or transistor is really a switch. It allows electrons to flow and if it's stimulated by the appropriate circuitry, it will stop or allow to flow the electrons in the circuit. So we set up a circuit that pushes electrons against a barrier, against a switch. So in other words, we have the switch turned off and we nevertheless try to push electrons through the switch and some of them make it. We don't know how, because it's a quantum process, it's called electron tunneling and it's a completely quantum level, unpredictable process. So what winds up on the other side of the barrier is a very small number of relatively of electrons and small current which varies unpredictably, and we sample the current and we decide that if it's a high level, we'll call that a one, if it's a low level, we'll call that a zero.

Speaker 1 8:18

So in this way we can create a sequence of ones and zeros that's completely unpredictable, it doesn't have a future because it hasn't happened yet, and that's a system that we believe and ultimately we have demonstrated. That's a system that is what we can call labile. It can be changed, it's movable. In other words, there are possibilities in a completely undetermined future to add something to the system that determines the future, and the thing that we add is human consciousness. If we add intention, for example to get high numbers, we can show in the laboratory that numbers increase slightly. They become slightly high just because human consciousness has presented a kind of information field that says high is what we want now, low is what we want now. So that's the essence of the technology that we use, and you can see that it's pretty easy to combine the results of two or a dozen or a hundred such devices and ask you know what's the average outcome? How are we doing in the process of trying to create order in what has been completely random?

Speaker 2 9:51

So we're talking about essentially what sounds to be the power of intention in Roger via the human consciousness. Is that a fair summary?

Speaker 1 9:59

Yes, for the original experiments, which we actually call the intention experiments. There is this ongoing stream of random numbers and we ask people to hold the intention to get high numbers now or hold the intention to get low numbers, and we also, in our experiments, as a kind of control condition you might say, we ask people to let it be. You know, let the poor thing do what it does. You know, and what we found is that in a large proportion of the cases we would find that people were successful in getting high numbers when that was their intention, and low numbers and so on, and we found lots of times we would be a little bit surprised at outcomes. We found that they also created base lives. In other words, the base lives weren't just what the thing does when nobody's paying attention. They would be slightly better than that.

Speaker 2 11:04

And just to take that one step further, can I just check in with how that relates. To say, when you visit the website we're seeing things like reports on sort of data streams or interpretations of things around say the George Floyd incident, world Peace Day, the coronavirus so how is this correlating across to bigger world events?

Speaker 1 11:27

Thank you.

Speaker 1 11:27

I need to say the next step after doing these intention experiments is doing experiments that you might say are more about attention instead of intention, but it says very special kind of attention that we're thinking of.

Speaker 1 11:46

When we miniaturized the devices and went out to concerts or ceremonies, one kind or another rituals and that sort of thing, we asked what happens to the data generated by this random number generator.

Speaker 1 12:04

Nobody has any intention to change it. Nevertheless, we predict that, because there is human consciousness involved and in particular, that it's a kind of a form of human consciousness where there's resonance and coherence, where people are thinking and feeling the same thing, in that case we made the prediction that we would see order developing in the random trace, even though nobody I've made me, most of the people wouldn't even know the machine was there. So what we were looking at, literally we called these things field experiments and we were looking for conscious evidence of a consciousness field that would be developed when people became coherent, especially in some emotional sense and that same. So now we predict that the data will not stay random. They will become slightly structured data points that would be correlated with each other, which is called auto correlated, because there was a kind of a source of information that could be absorbed by this information sink, the unpredictable random trace. Basically, these devices have the potential to change, as I mentioned before, and they do change in the presence of consciousness fields of one kind or another.

Speaker 3 13:44

Would you just extrapolate a little bit on the word coherency here in relation to what that means specifically? Here you said coherency and particularly with emotion. So initially we were looking at early experiments using intention, and now we're looking at how that affects random number generators in a statistically significant way, and now we're looking now at things where the same random number generators are being introduced into human activities without people knowing about it, without a stated intention, let's say. And what's happening? Rather than mechanism? There, instead of saying intention, necessarily, we're using the words coherency and emotion. So could you just comment a little on those, how coherency and emotion may relate to the changes in these random number generator readouts.

Speaker 1 14:37

Yes, we think probably most of us are familiar with the idea of, you know, being resonant with somebody else. You have a resonance. It means that you're feeling, thinking somewhat along the same lines If you think about going to a concert with a group, a musical group that is much loved by everybody who's there. Once the band gets going, there will be moments where everybody is so completely and totally focused on that moment. They're absorbed and have become a part of the music, almost. That's the kind of coherent state because all the mental activity and emotional activity is oriented in the same direction. You might say we're all doing the same thing. I'm using the complete extreme form. Of course there may be somebody who's actually thinking about the itch on his left elbow and not coherent or resonant with everybody else in the group. But for the most part we know there are situations. Oh, I should mention in particular ritual.

Speaker 1 16:00

Ritual in history came along very early. What it was about, what ritual is for, is bringing us together. It's for making us coherent with each other. It's for creating a group where before you had individuals. That kind of thing is, if you think about it, drumming, dancing, singing, all of those kinds of things, if you do those with a group of other people. You are creating a kind of coherent state with them.

Speaker 1 16:39

When we started expanding out into the world, our group became much larger in principle and possibility. Sometimes almost everybody in the planet would be engaged in a kind of shared attention to a major activity, just, for example, new Year's. It's a party, it's a moment which doesn't have any intrinsic importance, but we give it a kind of very special status and we celebrate, we come together and intend to generate a kind of coherence with each other. We don't use that terminology but we are waiting for, we're partying, we're having a wonderful time with our friends and waiting for midnight to arrive. As it gets close to midnight, you can think of everybody becoming more and more attuned to this abstract moment in time. We made the prediction that our data would show some kind of change approaching midnight and basically maximizing that change from normal, random behavior around midnight.

Speaker 1 17:57

As a matter of record, over the many years we've been looking at human activity using this network of random number generators, we see a pattern that drops down close to midnight and comes back up afterwards, in other words, a kind of normally. It's a random walk, a random trace of activity in the network and it becomes organized in a way. That's maybe surprising, although it was something we could predict. It's nevertheless a kind of surprise that the random number generators pay such close attention to who and what we are. Of course, there are other kinds of events. Major tragedies also bring us in large numbers to think about the same thing and to feel emotions, and especially feel well extreme kinds of emotions, but in a shared way. Compassion and love are the kinds of things that, if they are present in the atmosphere that we're all sharing, they're pretty good predictors of changes in the random number generator data. They're basically saying here's another opportunity for a correlation to show up between random number generators and, you might say, random people coming together, consciousness generators.

Speaker 2 19:37

So what we're seeing here is something that we might often see in studies of groups of meditators, where, in small groups of studies, they seem to produce a more coherent and, you know, more coherent field within them. But we're looking here at a global scale, and so what, essentially, I think I'm distilling from what you're sharing is emotional charge, whether that's a dissonant emotional charge, such as fear, or an emotional charge that's more aligned to a sense of coherency, is having implications on a sort of the scale of humanity, particularly identifiable when we can point to a singular event, such as New Year's or a tragic murder that affects, you know, many, many people, or a world peace day, where a lot of people's attention and intention are focused on stepping away from that dissonance. So, yeah, this is beautiful. It seems that the data of the GCP is showing that both fear and love have this potential, this power to change the world, which is what a lot of spiritual groups and meditation groups have been, you know, sort of arguing or suggesting for a long time.

Speaker 1 20:48

Yes, that's such so well put, but what we are doing is looking at the generation of shared emotions, and this happens automatically and naturally in the case of emergencies, that is, some kind of an accident or a great tragedy is unfolding that will gather our attention and it will synchronize us. It will bring us together in a way that we don't necessarily recognize, but which is real. If you look at it in retrospect, you know that we were all feeling the same anxiety, fear or love or compassion at the same time, and for good reason. And it's not magic, or actually I guess it is magic, but it's not something that's that should be a surprise to us. I mean, the sages and the poets of all cultures have told us forever that we are connected in some way that can be enhanced, increased or and actually utilized. A lot of the kind of celebrations and ritual activities that we undertake are designed exactly to get us to work together. And if we think about it something like you said peace day or any kind of really successful gathering together for a meditation or celebration of something like expectations for a brighter future we'll see some. I think now, because of the scientific data, show it, that we can say that those things work, that those planned and organized meditations actually do something in the world.

Speaker 1 22:50

I'm giving a talk in not too many days which I decided I would entitle. Your mind lives in the world and it does. We think, most of us. I think, naturally, that our mind is in there somewhere. It's not, it's all over the place. If you think about your a loved one, if I think about my mother, who died in 2002, she's all of a sudden not dead. She is actually present in some way and it makes me think about, it, makes me experience something like the aroma of freshly baked bread. Can you believe that? Of course you can, because you have experienced it.

Speaker 3 23:37

To take this into understanding, then further these words mind and consciousness. Now, I'd haven't seen this through the GCP, so I'm asking, in terms of your work or even speculations, totally okay, what do we think or what do you think it might this field of consciousness be made of? Is there a substrate? Because if it's not materialist, if it's not, it's in here and your brain is the equivalent of your mind, or that mind is some emergent property. Let's say that again, it's substrate is matter. What might the substrate be?

Speaker 1 24:15

Information. That's too quick an answer. But what is mind made of? It is a pattern. It's a kind of incredibly wonderfully complex and poetic sort of pattern in which means that there is information, you might say, about the universe that is concentrated and focused here, where my mind is and yours is, in such a way as to create this kind of amazing self-awareness that we have. What is this? How is this possible? Is it made of something like electromagnetic waves? No, it cannot be, because there are kinds of evidence of mind existing where could not be if it were merely electromagnetic or if it depended upon a substrate of the three pounds of meat inside my head. Of course, that three pounds of meat is part of the system, but the information that is my consciousness and your consciousness, it lives in the world in such a way that if we know each other and if we, through technology, connect with each other over Zoom, we are suddenly not so separate as we were before. And we will be again after, for the most part, although I will remember you and you may remember me as well. But in any case, we have created something new just by connecting and when we want to, really down to earth and powerfully focused example, we can think about the matter of being in love or falling in love.

Speaker 1 26:17

You meet somebody you never know before and so you had no connection that you were aware of. You meet this person and it turns out that you have wonderful conversations and it's shared interest and a kind of emotional burgeoning, a kind of creation of something new, which is the love that the two of you have come to share. So, without going on a great length, when we fall in love we create something new, which is the combination of us. It's not predictable necessarily from looking at your activity or mind, but we are creative beings in an almost unstoppable, unquenchable way, and one of the things that we create is mind. We are mind and when we work together we can create even more mind. And if we all work together, we had a sign in the kind of poster, but it was the size of a postcard, in the Pear Lab. The sign said if we all work together, we can totally subvert the system, and we can.

Speaker 2 27:38

That's beautiful. I mean, you're talking here to. The one of the sort of key points that comes to mind when I think about this is personal responsibility and that as individuals, we have a huge personal responsibility if we're taking this into account. That as a individual contribution, you know, everyone is only but that individual contribution, and yet en masse. This is, you know, humanity's field, this is the collective field, as it's often termed, and the implications of that are quite vast when we think about what is it that we are personally committing, putting forward, creating, co-creating right into this field.

Speaker 1 28:19

I love this. Yeah, you are paraphrasing beautifully something that I think is extremely important and not well understood or not generally understood. We are amazingly capable beings. In principle, there's a lot of things that we can do, could do and will do when we become aware of the possibilities and decide to proceed with them, and so we are immensely capable. And that entails, as you say so beautifully, a kind of responsibility, not only to go ahead with the challenging capabilities that we have and we always can tap, but to recognize the responsibility that entails. If you can create something, you must be responsible for it.

Speaker 3 29:17

What you were saying earlier was reminding me of a quote I love of John Archibald Wheeler's, where he paraphrases the changes in physics over the centuries as everything's particles, everything's fields, everything's information, and looking at things as a new paradigm of sorts. It's information at bottom, in a sense, but information and consciousness. Not dead information, but living information in some sense, and you paired that with subverting the system. So I'm curious, with this kind of the bedrock of consciousness as information, some kind of, let's say, new way of looking at connectivity that is potentially non-local, for instance, do you feel that the building blocks are in place for a subversion of the system, for a paradigm shift?

Speaker 1 30:09

I do, and I'm very old. I still hope that I may be around for it, and that requires that it happened within five or ten years. For sure. We see the signs of it and you guys probably, as happens with me you have a kind of circle of communication that reaches way out and all over the world, and so I get incoming bits John Wheeler said it from bit. The world is created out of it. The world is created out of bit, the information. That's just beautifully put, so simple.

Speaker 1 30:56

Anyway, what I see and I'm so I'm joyful about it is that there are more and more individuals, and especially groups, who are gathering as a kind of you know, so far unled army of individuals and groups who have the same intention ultimately, which is to do everything we possibly can to create a brighter future. And we know that there are huge challenges. Mostly, the challenges consist in the fact that there are really a very large number of people who have no idea of this and they don't care. They can't care because they don't even think about it. It's not part of their world at all. They're occupied by whatever it is that their culture has inculcated in them to choose as the mode of living, and a lot of that is destructive.

Speaker 1 31:58

In any case, every day practically, I see evidence, more evidence that there are. This is changing slowly, but I hope with increasing velocity. It's changing to in such a way that the army will, you know, kind of bring itself together and maybe elect a leader. But we really don't need one. All we need is love to quote John Lennon. I think Isn't that what he said?

Speaker 2 32:30

That brings me to this sort of idea of you know, related to the sense of personal responsibility, and we have our external presentation and creation in this world through our emotional state, our interactions with others. What about this alternative world of the internal coherency? And I'm wondering if, or I'd love to hear how the research you've been conducting and the revelations and the realizations you've come to in your personal journey through this work, how that might have implicated your internal practice.

Speaker 1 33:05

It's a little. What do they say? It's hard to know whether the dog is wagging the tail or the other way around. But my internal practice I probably, if I lived near you guys, I would say I need an appointment, because my internal practice is now has gotten so externalized that I think I don't need to sit and meditate, and that's really that's wrong. I do need to sit and meditate. Yes, we have to start at home. I think the practically all any teacher will say if you want to change the world, start at start with yourself, start with your own heart and make sure that you are internally in order and you have to do that in order to change anything around you, to change any other single person or a group or the world in the direction of a brighter future. My preferred way of thinking about it it requires that we all kind of get our act together and recognize what you said before, that we have these remarkable capabilities and with those come extremely important responsibilities to ourselves and to each other.

Speaker 3 34:31

What is it like being for you being a scientist exploring the topic of consciousness and even sci phenomena? This is obviously where it's a slippery slope or shaky ground. It's the nice when it comes to science exploring these topics. So what's that like been for you? And, furthermore, what role do you think science has to play or to contribute to understanding consciousness amongst the other ways in which we can?

Speaker 1 35:01

I don't know, you guys have been thinking about these questions for a long time. They're great. This is, I think, science is a tool or set of tools, and they're best applied without prejudice. In fact, that is in some sense the watch word or the fundamental necessity if you want to do science is to do it without prejudice.

Speaker 1 35:30

So personally, I think I sometimes actually kind of become conscious of feeling thankful that I somehow escaped a kind of indoctrination in what is, I think it's fairly called dogmatic science. I had really good training, good teachers in all kinds of aspects in physics and statistics, which is something a lot of people never have a chance to get to at all. So in a sense, the training that I kind of accidentally achieved, in the sense that I went one step after another without necessarily having a plan to gather these particular kinds of experience or scientific capabilities I built in all kind of by coincidence, and I think of things happening in my life quite frequently as a result of coincidence and synchronicity. But in any case I built a really robust and a kind of unassailable set of scientific tools. I mean, I don't know everything, but I know how to find out just about anything. So my personal implications are a little bit more like poetry and art as a kind of expression of the creative spirit.

Speaker 1 37:12

Science can also be used to help create something with an artistic spirit, but you might say you have to know the difference. You have to know when it's pure poetry and, by the way, there's nothing wrong with pure poetry by any stretch. I think that's what we ultimately have to rely on in order to understand the world that we actually live in. The scientists can say a lot of things about neurons firing and complex networks of activity in your brain and all of that sort of thing, and lots of measurements used to be EEG, which is very popular, Now it's MRI and then it's a functional MRI and so forth. So we build fancier and finer tools and they give us different kinds of insights, but what we're looking at is the same thing a consciousness that is actually creative, and if it's alive and well, it's going to be creating not just appetites and inclinations but actual. It will be creating the beauty of the world that we actually live in.

Speaker 2 38:36

Do you feel that science has the ability to answer the question of consciousness?

Speaker 1 38:43

Yes, if we're patient. But the problem that we have and this is true for any complicated or difficult kind of question is that we're limited to the tools that we have. Neurophysiology is limited to a set of tools that address what the brain is made of and what the activity of the brain looks like. But consciousness might not reside there. It might not be findable in the interaction of all those neurons. I think I already said it's part of the picture, but it's not the whole picture. And we know this from not only things like what the poets have told us for or the sages and various traditions and religions have told us all these millennia.

Speaker 1 39:40

We know from modern, very good science that part of consciousness is non-local. I know I'm just looking at photons displayed on my computer screen, but I'm seeing Christofel and Keith. You know, in some way there is, I think, a lot more interesting and it's a better job than those photons, even though they're colorful. And we have experimental evidence that a random number generator can react to the intentions that somebody has at the time the data are being collected, even though he or she might be 250 miles away or might be in Europe, while there are random number generators here, right in this country, we can change the way the world is very slightly, even if what we're thinking about is happening tomorrow and thousands of miles away. That's the kind of capabilities we have, which we had better get our act together before we learned how really to use them right.

Speaker 3 40:59

Yeah, well, you're anticipating a potential question which is about really acknowledging and trying to integrate this kind of paradigm where what we are doing mentally, psychologically, emotionally not only affects us but actually affects everyone else and Christofel touched on this a little bit. But maybe part of the growing pains of getting into an actual paradigm shift is that we have to get our act together a little bit to be able to, as a whole, move into that level of responsibility and creation. What do you think about that?

Speaker 1 41:37

How about a single word? Yes, it's so clear. We are doing a terrible job and it's demonstrable, and people are writing about it. There's stories all over the internet that tell us what a challenge we have ahead. One way of expressing it is that we're at the crossroads. I think there's a beautiful expression by Robert Frost that says you know, I come to a branch in the path and I have to choose which way to go. And he says I chose the less traveled path. But then there's also a Yogi Berra who wisely said I have the choice, so I'm going to say yes.

Speaker 2 42:30

And it brings me to this thought of how ready are we really as a civilization to really consider and take on how connected we may be? And maybe that speaks to some of the resistance or the kickback to this type of research that you're conducting and these considerations of the nature of consciousness.

Speaker 1 42:53

There is a lot of fear, I think, and maybe even more more, something like self serving. I mean, this is now wildly opinionated kind of stuff. I don't really know the hearts and minds of all those captains of industry who, I think, are willfully wrecking the planet for a mere handful of dollars again and again, and again. So I feel very bad about that happening and I feel one of the most important things we could do and must ultimately do is figure out how to talk to people on the other side of the fence.

Speaker 1 43:39

You know there are we're, we've got a lot of allies, as I was talking before, and I hear from another group every day practically, that people who are working very hard to correct our errors and do better, you know, bring more and more people into the fold. I don't hear from, and nobody else here in, this sort of you know, airy fairy part of the world. We don't hear from the captains of industry. I'll just say this part of it. We have an educational system and it's not just what you learn in school, but it's what you learn from all of the advertising and all of the program, programmatic stuff that's presented to us as a representation of what it's like to be a modern American human. What we learn is a big mistake, because all the valuation that we see done and it happens all over the place All of the valuations done in terms of money how much can I win, or how many dollars, or how many fancy gadgets can I buy, and how big can my house be and how fast can my car be, in spite of the fact that the speed limit is only 60 or 70 or something like that Mostly I want a car that can go 150 miles an hour. Sure, why do we? Why does that happen? Because we're kind of. We have an inculcated representation of what value is that's just in terms of dollars, and what dollars can buy.

Speaker 1 45:29

And what we need is I think probably easily all of practically all of our friends would say is evaluation in terms of well being. How are, how am I, how is my family, in terms of well being? Do we have love and do we have enough to eat? Do we have shelter and do we feel good? These are the kinds of things that constitute well being. I think you know we could make a long list of stuff that we want to have come together to foster our well being. But until, I think, until we learn to substitute a measure of well being or something you know, there are other words you can use to substitute those kind of ethereal qualities for money as a way of recognizing that we have done well, that somebody else has done well, the. The award should be in terms of love and well being.

Speaker 3 46:46

I certainly second that. I imagine Christabel does as well. That's a great message. And speaking of messages, what? What advice would you give to young scientists and researchers interested in exploring the field of consciousness studies? Do you think there are any areas of concentration that offer real opportunity at this moment?

Contemporary Consciousness Research

Speaker 1 47:06

You know, in terms of areas of concentration, physics is very valuable and mathematics and psychology in some respect is also very valuable, but I'd add even some things like sociology, because we're getting to the point where that's going to be. You know, the necessary measurement system is how is the society doing, you know? But my first response to your question is to get seriously high quality scientific tools. If you're going to do physics, you have to be, you know, an accomplished mathematician, because physics ultimately is you know. It's a basic science that tries to model how the world is. You know what, what, what is the world made of? In a kind of calculable style or metric. If you're going to be a, if you're going to do experimental science, you must learn statistics in such a way that you will always understand what the data are saying. You will. You won't imagine what it might be saying, but you will know exactly what it's saying and what it's not saying. So basically, I really I think part of your question has to do with the way science and scientific society is now.

Speaker 1 48:47

There are a lot of people that would like to do work in the area of consciousness research of the sort that I've been fortunate to do but there are not very many places because a lot of the potential places have really highly prejudiced I'm stuck with the German word Einwohner the people, the inhabitants of a lot of those kinds of territories where you might take up such research that prejudiced they.

Speaker 1 49:21

They learned a different sort of. They learned that science is a bunch of facts, not a bunch of tools. And if you think that science is a bunch of facts, you may. It's easy to see that you can become convinced of a lot of false things, because what we call facts are sometimes not. They are ill, ill prepared statements of belief, and so if those are wrong, the people who believe them will not like you in your midst if you're coming in with a set of, you know, very sharp scientific tools. We had a lot of opposition that Princeton University in the parallel, but we stayed there and we did, you know, high quality work in spite of the the opposition that we saw from some parts of the faculty and administration.

Speaker 2 50:23

So important in working towards this brighter, more conscious future, Roger, that individuals such as yourself in the scientific community are, you know, having connecting to that sense of courage and commitment. And, as we see it, you know, potentially findings from projects such as the global consciousness project can be applied in real world contexts, going forward influencing fields, as you say, like psychology, sociology and maybe even policymaking.

Speaker 1 50:51

Yeah, and you remind me of GCP. That's. The old project that I created is called GCP Global Consciousness Project. There's now a GCP 2.0, which we have been creating over the last couple of years. I say we because I participated, but it's being led by other people who are younger and stronger and I'm very wise. It's a group of a dozen or 15 people who have put together a scientifically grounded and really, you know, high level, accomplished science and mathematics and statistics and all that.

Speaker 1 51:33

One of our really wonderful allies is an economist from Sweden. His name is Ulf Holmberg and he's been publishing, by now, I think, four or five papers which show a practical application, at least in modeling terms. Basically, the first one he produced was a look at the possibility that there would be correlation between GCP data just running along day by day by day and stock markets, and he looked at, I think he said, 11 different ones and basically it all showed all but one out of 10 or 11, however many it was showed a significant correlation of the stock market changes with changes in the random number generator data from the GCP, and he's now, just a few days ago, produced the first paper of a similar sort.

Speaker 1 52:44

Now, looking at data from the GCP 2.0, which is going to be gigantic compared to the original GCP A thousand locations around the world without the devices, and each of those will produce, I think, four different data streams and they'll be in clusters and they'll be individual, and it's just a wonderful development.

Speaker 1 53:10

So, anyway, ulf has recently looked at the combination, or he's created an index of something called a VIX. It's a measurement of sentiment that used by people like the Federal Reserve, and this particular one is in San Francisco, and that shows the same kind of correlation of the VIX sentiment data, which is about how are people feeling in terms of how that affects how they invest. Once again, there's this correlation that really shouldn't exist with random numbers. So human consciousness is, even without us thinking about a question like an event or a special situation, human consciousness in the form of the sentiment measured by people so divorced from this whole process as stock market traders. Right, that stuff is correlated with our random numbers. Amazing. There's also a harbinger of a future in which it's been said for decades in the field of parapsychology and consciousness research that once there's a practical application, it will be hard for the naysayers to keep saying, nay, if you can make money with it.

Speaker 3 54:40

Yeah, that's exactly where my mind was going with, that is, if you can start making money off of this information, then it'll go from supercomputers and derivative experts to random number generator investors, et cetera. Maybe we're talking the people making the Fortune 500 in 10 years from now, who knows? But that's obviously not the point of the work, although we appreciate the tip First off, just as we close things or wind things down, just want to thank you very, very much for all of your wisdom and the wonderful research that you've done. I know this will enrich a lot of our listeners' understanding of how science and the work you're doing can contribute to their understanding of consciousness and connectedness. In particular, is there a particular way that you would want to point people or direct people to the work that you do, if they want to see more or learn more about what you're doing?

Speaker 1 55:35

Yeah, for the original GCP work. The book is called Connected the Emergence of Global Consciousness. That book can be found on Barnes, Noble or Amazon. There are two books in German. One is called De Weltgeist, which means something like the spirit of the world. The other one is called Die Weltkraft in dir, which means something about the power of the world that's in you. The first one is pretty much about the Global Consciousness Project and the implications of it. The second one is about the implications directly. In a sense, that's probably like you guys try to help people understand. You've got power within you to do what you want and to change what you need to, and so forth. Okay, so GCP 2.0 has a temporary or provisional website and a new one that will come online very soon. Anyway, the web address for that is gcp2.net. We'll give people access to and even give them an invitation, if they're interested, to become what we call a citizen scientist engaged in hosting one of the devices and contributing questions and insights and so forth to the work. People can join that tribe if they wish.

Speaker 1 57:10

I have wanted to say that I think what we are like you might say we human beings we're like neurons in a giant global mind or global brain and we're so far not coalescing into the subnetworks that make vision and hearing and all that kind of stuff. We have evidence that we are coalesced to some degree in such a way as to be detectable. It's kind of like really an embryo or an infant global consciousness. And finally, what I'd like to say is that I think the evidence is quite clear that we are connected in ways that we are unable to perceive directly. There's a kind of unconscious connection among us as human beings. It becomes pretty noticeable when we're like in small groups and when we fall in love. But I think what we should set for ourselves is a kind of task is to become aware of this unconscious connection, to bring the unconscious connection up into consciousness. To the extent that we succeed in that we can undertake conscious evolution.

Speaker 2 58:31

What a beautiful sentiment to close on. Thank you so much, Roger. It's been an absolute pleasure to speak to you today. I know we could speak for much longer.

Speaker 1 58:40

You've gone forever. It's been a great pleasure for me. You are lovely people.

Speaker 3 58:51

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