Discovering Past Life Regression Therapy & The Power of Your Subconscious Mind with Patricia Walsh

This episode promises a deep exploration into the mysteries of past life regression therapy and its profound impact on healing current life traumas. Joining us is Patricia Walsh, a certified Deep Memory Process (DMP) regression practitioner and Chief Trainer for Dr. Roger Woolger’s Institute of Deep Memory Process. After several years of research and several thousand case studies she authored Understanding Karmic Complexes: Evolutionary Astrology and Regression Therapy (2009). Whether you believe in the possibility of past lives, or simply connect to the idea of the power of the subconscious, Patricia's expertise illuminates the therapeutic process of accessing targeted subconscious memories to offer a transformative healing potential. She presents a model of the soul's journey in which it carries the weight of unresolved issues in the energy of the subtle bodies, shaping our present experiences and potentially manifesting as chronic ailments or unexplained fears. Our conversation navigates the intriguing parallels between Western psychology and Eastern philosophy, exploring a compelling narrative that bridges the gap between Freud's repetition compulsion and the Vedantic concept of samskaras. We investigate how the Tibetan Bardo states can be used as a therapeutic framework to navigate the afterlife - where just like birth, death is also viewed as a pivotal moment whose imprints can be revisited and resolved. We discuss ancestral spirits and the value of healing ancestral trauma. We also touch upon the intriguing subject of what Patricia calls earthbound spirits, and how they can become attached to people energetically. Whether it's confronting the concept of karma or the power of accessing subconscious memory through associative imagery this episode is a testament to the untapped potential within our own psyche. Join us as we share Patricia's heartfelt experiences and practical insights on how past life regression therapy can facilitate profound healing and personal transformation. By revisiting and resolving the imprints of past existences, we open the door to understanding the eternal journey of the soul, healing ancestral echoes, and awakening to our inner cosmos.

Patricia is also a certified Evolutionary Astrologer from the Jeffrey Wolf Green School of Evolutionary Astrology. Drawing from over 20 years of experience in working with the human psyche she recently created Kairos Astrology: An Experiential Training for Astrologers. She is also an instructor for the Soul Wise School of Evolutionary Astrology.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

You know, the soul has an unresolved trauma. It keeps repeating, through each incarnation which gets to that subtle body theory, that it isn't just the etheric body that holds these, it's the emotional body and the mental body and the causal body. But when one reincarnates, they pick up. It's like picking up the same clothes you left before. Those subtle bodies are the matter that the physical body and incarnation is made from.

Speaker 2: 0:44

Welcome to the Field Dynamics podcast. We're here to facilitate inspiring dialogues about the nature of consciousness across disciplines, communities and practitioners, all with a holistic perspective.

Speaker 3: 0:56

From energy healing to somatic therapies, from neuroscience to meditation. We believe the most interesting things happen at the boundaries of disciplines.

Speaker 2: 1:05

I'm Christabel.

Speaker 3: 1:06

And I'm Keith.

Speaker 2: 1:07

Thanks for joining us today and enjoy the episode.

Speaker 3: 1:19

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Field Dynamics podcast. Today we're joined by Patricia Walsh. Patricia is a certified deep memory process regression practitioner and chief trainer for Dr Roger Wolgers Institute of Deep Memory Process since 2002. She's also a certified evolutionary astrologer from the Jeffrey Wolf Green School of Astrology since 2004. After several years of research and several thousand case studies, she authored the book Understanding Karmic Complexes Evolutionary Astrology and Regression Therapy, which synthesizes evolutionary astrology with past life therapy to provide a comprehensive window into the workings of the psychology of the soul Combined with astrology. She specializes in healing work based in shamanic principles and harnessing the power of imagination to release the soul's potential. Drawing from over 20 years of experience in working with the human psyche, she recently created Kyros astrology, an experiential training for astrologers. She's also an instructor for the Soul Wise School of Evolutionary Astrology.

Speaker 3: 2:25

Patricia, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks, we're really looking forward to talking about past life regression therapy in particular, because it's a subject that you specialize in and that many people are also quite intrigued by. So what are past lives as you define them?

Speaker 1: 2:44

Well, I think one of the best ways to answer that question is to start with a quote from my mentor and teacher, roger Wolger, who said it doesn't matter if you believe in past lives, the subconscious is a true believer. So what does that mean? Well, what is the subconscious right? So we can start there. If you go to Jungian philosophy or whatever, where Jung and Freud both identified this mysterious realm of our consciousness called the subconscious, they differed on what was the content of the subconscious right. So Freud had this idea that it was reprepped impulses, shadow material things we didn't want to know about ourselves. And Jung, of course, got increasingly interested in dreams and then formed his philosophy of collective consciousness and collective unconscious, and from that sprang his understanding of archetypes. And all of that is contained in the subconscious. So past lives, past life memory, there's been identified since Jung and Freud's theories that there's a collective unconscious and an individuated unconscious. Now, anybody who's done what I would say tourism of the subconscious, which can happen through sometimes, it can happen through plant medicine, it can happen through breathwork, you know where. There isn't always a specific target of what you're looking for in the subconscious. You're just opening to that field so you can get a variety of imagery that's archetypal, that's collective, that's individual, right. So that's already shown that we can access that through our individual consciousness. When we work with past lives, we specifically want to get to memories that are in the soul, and we can also say that soul, psyche and subconscious are synonymous, at least in the way that I'm using to describe that. We want to specifically use the present day consciousness or what I would say, a complex or an issue or something that's been plaguing you, that you've done 20 years of therapy on or you know whatever, and it's still there, which means it's still active in the subconscious. We want to use something like that to target through the individuated unconscious, directly to something that is relative to your complex and by working with it will resolve the individual complex. So are we tapping into an archetype, but an archetype that's specific to you, or are we tapping into specific path lives? I don't need any convincing, but for people that might question right, the possibility exists for either one. But, like Roger said, it doesn't matter because the subconscious is the true believer and by that means that if you go into the subconscious with modes that are meant to deal specifically with the subconscious, not just our cognitive conscious process, but goes below the threshold of that. If you go in there with the intention of uprooting something, opening it up, bringing it to consciousness and then bringing it to resolution and healing, it doesn't matter if you believe or not, because the subconscious does.

Speaker 1: 6:36

Now, the other side of that, I would say that if we think of soul right, and that's a bigger conversation what is soul? But if we think of soul, the language of soul is not linear. The language of soul is always story, myth, metaphor, image, right. All the transpersonal psychologists appointed that out, hillman being one of the contemporaries that talks about that all the time. So this is how the soul communicates.

Speaker 1: 7:11

So again, if we say soul is synonymous with subconscious, then we would say that story and image are going to, when they surface from the subconscious, are going to be directly coming from the soul. I've worked with tens of thousands of people and there are literal cases that there's no way the conscious mind could have known things that are historically accurate or historical characters that can be researched after a regression. Again, is there some huge collective memory that we tap into and pull that information out? I don't know, but I do know that when I work with an individual and we go into the subconscious with a targeted intention as well as induction, that we are able to pull out a material that is directly related to that person and then, working with it, resolve something within their life.

Speaker 2: 8:23

Growing up in England in the 1980s, I'm familiar with Roger Wolger's book Other Lives, other Cells being on the bookshelf. You continue his lineage through deep memory process. But what was the community and the situation in which regression therapy initially arose?

Speaker 1: 8:39

Roger was one of the pioneers of regression as a therapy, and his experience actually started in a vipassana meditation retreat, where he went back to a current life, memory of being a young boy the day his father left his mother, actually, and he was four years old or something sitting at the top of the stairs and this sense of the father leaving and this little four-year-old's world blowing up, he threw himself down the stairs backwards and tumbled down. He didn't, you know, fortunately hurt himself, but tumbled down the stairs backwards. Well, I think in the vipassana meditation, if I remember it correctly, that memory came up and then, through the meditative process, jumped to a past life which was a pathar life of throwing oneself off a cliff in despair. And then, you know, the whole story revealed itself during the meditation. And, of course, being a Jungian, what is the story? What is the image? And then the immediate connection of those two images, one appearing to be a past life and one absolutely relevant in the current life, in fact the repressed memory that came up. He then, of course, was interested in that. So I think he was teaching at Goddard at the time in Vermont and had a bunch of, you know, interested psychonauts. Right, you know this was way back in the 70s or 80s, like you said had a bunch of psychonauts get together and just experiment with opening up the you know subconscious, opening it up in different ways, like Jung used the process of active imagination, so applying that and then kind of you know, recording and dialoguing about what came up for people and so on.

Speaker 1: 10:47

And then of course there were other pioneers in the field. Morris Netherton was another. And Morris Netherton, interestingly, was very body-based, which is something you don't see in regression typically, especially that comes from the hypnotic schools they tend to be, it tends to go to more mental levels, and Roger, of course, was very interested in that body-based kind of therapy. Also, you know the different emerging alternative schools of psychology that were arising around the time, like psychodrama, another method to you know, pass over the conscious mind and get directly to subconscious material. So psychodrama was one, fritz Perl's Gestalt was another. That it's like if you just go into acting as if your subconscious will fill in, things become things. Same as psychodrama. If you start acting something out rather than thinking about it, talking about it deeper, material will fill in in the action and, like I said, that combined with active imagination and then the body's part. You know, where does the body hold memory? How does the body hold memory?

Speaker 1: 12:08

Ian Stevenson did all of this research on past lives in India, right, where it's a common belief, but on past lives and particular you know body marks like a mole that correlated to traumatic deaths in the past. He was also a pioneer of the veracity of past lives, right, and his research was all done by spontaneous memory of children, so it wasn't adults, it was children that were like four years old that would say, oh, I used to live in some town that's a million miles away that they would know nothing about. And so he followed these cases and made this correlation with, you know kids saying I was run over, you know here, and they have a vertebra out or something like that. So he made these correlations to current life body Largely. He did a lot on you know, moles or marks or maybe even deformities that correlated to past life, traumatic deaths, again just through children's spontaneous memories, and did a lot of verification of that, sometimes bringing children to those places, so those kind of people that were around at that time, you know, back in the 80s, combining all of that as well as Eastern philosophy, which talks about.

Speaker 1: 13:36

You know, vedanta, how the subtle bodies hold samskaras, how the subtle body. You know that we have an etheric energetic counterpart to the physical body. So the physical body is not necessarily the one that carries the memory, it's in the etheric body. But when you reincarnate you pick up the same subtle body left off with that then can somaticize. So combining all of that and that's one thing that Roger was masterful at was synthesis, right, synthesizing like the cream of the crop and putting it all together and you know he worked with Netherton too at the time putting all of that together with different people's research and their findings and what they because Netherton was also exploring Definitely looked at it as not a curiosity but like this is a pure healing, therapeutic possibility. How do we harness this to that end?

Speaker 3: 14:45

So, speaking of it therapeutically and how it's such a synthesis, what deep memory process is integrating these different kinds of approaches you've mentioned? Also, there's a strong shamanic component to it. Even using mapping from the Tibetan bardo states, could you? I know there's a lot of info to get into with this question, but in general, might you walk people through, listeners through. What is doing this kind of work mean as an experiencer? What process is facilitated?

Speaker 1: 15:16

Deep memory process differs from hypnotic induction or even hypnosis. So primarily, the first differentiation between that would be affect. So you come to me and you say I have anxiety. And I say, okay, let's talk about where anxiety comes up in your life. And you're like, well, I'm driving a car. I get anxious, okay, so I might have you stimulate that again. What is that anxiety like? And you close your eyes and pretend you're driving and what are the specific things that come up for you while you're doing that? And it may be like then all of a sudden the irrational thoughts start coming.

Speaker 1: 16:02

This is what I always say when we hit the irrational, we're in something real, because the conscious mind only wants rational. This is why talk therapy goes like. I always say I'm not saying it's not valuable. But to get to these other dynamics, talk therapy is circling the airport and never landing the airplane Because you're not dealing with the subconscious is not logical and linear. It's irrational, just like your dreams are irrational.

Speaker 1: 16:31

It comes for a session and we are identifying a particular and it can be anything. It's about physical, chronic, physical, physical things that have arisen, accidents. It can be things like I was talking about, like anxieties, phobias. That's often what past life therapy is associated with being able to alleviate Are these irrational fears and phobias Like fear of drowning yet somebody never had that experience in this life. Fear of fire or anxiety, that kind of thing. It can also be emotional complexes, like feeling depressed or experiencing a huge loss or feeling like a failure. You know constant little scripts that we have I'm not good enough, I feel like a failure. I've always got to fight. So I always say to people use the words I always or I never and then finish the sentence Kind of what I call life review I always or I never. There's common ones I never have enough money, I always have to do it alone. Those kinds of things, those are scripts. We take them as if that's reality. Right, you look at your life and go, but it is reality. But we would use material like that, build the affect around it and then use that to jump back to the past life, just like when I was giving the example of Roger talking about, you know, the memory of falling down the stairs and then throwing oneself off a cliff in despair.

Speaker 1: 18:08

That is from our understanding of the way that the subconscious retains these kinds of memories. They are associative, so we use the associative ability, which is a normal part of memory. People tend to think of subconscious memory as linear. It's not. It's associative Parts of it are linear. You know, you smell something. It brings back a memory. So we use that kind to just jump into the past life, material, bypass the conscious mind. So you're coming to me about anxiety, driving a car, blah, blah, and I'm going to have you bring that up. And then, in the middle of the affect, the irrational thoughts of I'm going to die or I'm going to drive off the road, or somebody is going to come at me, whatever is within the anxiety that maybe your conscious mind wasn't even aware of. You were just feeling the affect of it. We're going to use that and then go back into a past life.

Speaker 1: 19:11

The point then is to run the story. It isn't so much about finding out, it's not a mental process. Yes, the consciousness is involved, but it's not so much. That's not what heals the past life. Just knowing the story isn't enough as the guide. That's what regressionists do they guide the person to, once they're in the memory, to recover the memory, to move forward and backward, find out what was going on, go through the death moment. And then this is where deep memory process is very distinct, in that we have an elaborate process that we work with after death.

Speaker 1: 19:54

I mean, so many times I've had people come to me who did regression with somebody. And I'm not saying all other schools that teach regression are like this, but this is the literal case. I remember a guy came to me. He had a rage complex. He would just bottle it up, bottle it up, bottle it up until he would explode and totally take himself by surprise and really wanted to get to the root of what is at the root of this rage. And so he said, oh, I went to a regressionist and I did a story. I said, ok, so what happened? And he said, well, I was a man and his wife was, I think. They were invaded and the wife and the kids were killed in front of him and he got vengeful and he became a kind of sadistic mercenary. That just was so like, you know, bloodlust, you know just vicious. And then also he himself took women captive and did horrible things, et cetera, in that life. And then he, whatever, he was mercenarying for the war, whatever was over, and he goes back to live in some village and you know how do you deal with all that rage? He drank and drank and drank and drank and then basically fell down on a dock somewhere and died, and so then I'm like, ok, and then what happened? He goes, then the session was over.

Speaker 1: 21:21

That's kind of halfway from what we would do, because the literal thing that happens is just like the moment of birth, which you know you can reference Stanislaw Groff's work about these what happens through those basic perinatal matrices and how we get imprinted through the four stages of birthing. Just like birth, death also imprints, and the manner of death imprints deeply on the soul, and so it's kind of like flash frozen in the soul memory and all of those imprints that were there, this guy's life, this, the rage, the alcoholism, all of that stuff flash frozen in that moment at death. That does not resolve after death. Right, and this has been a misnomer. I think that gets carried over from this understanding of near death experiences where new age thought would have you believe that we all die and go to the light. If we did, why would we come back?

Speaker 1: 22:31

So the point is that in Vedanto or any of the real systems that brought us reincarnation would say this isn't the case that these imprints, these thamthkaras, are carried into the afterlife. And so when we work in regression, we can follow the consciousness into the afterlife with its imprints, that past life character's imprints, and have them rework those things in the afterlife with the spirits of those that in this guy's case that I was telling you, you know, we meet the wife, we meet the children say, you know, have it out with the invaders that took all that from him. Maybe he needs to offload that guilt, that remorse. Let him receive some healing from spirit guides, spirit animals. They're all accessible to us in what we would call what the Tibetans call the bardos, or the afterlife.

Speaker 1: 23:34

The point is, when we die in those states, those depressive states, those traumatic states, they're like a bubble that that part of the soul stays in. He goes back and pops it and opens up that and then reworks all of that, which then kind of ah, that past life self has been liberated instead of being in this afterlife bubble. And we know again from trauma theory that trauma repeats itself over and over and over. That's what happens after death. There are, and it's not the total soul, but there are parts of the soul that stay locked in these what I call bardo bubbles, which is what the Tibetans teach as well. I mean it's left popularized in the West because Western metaphysics would say more of you know, you sit on the cloud and you pick your mommy and daddy for your next life. That is not necessarily what again the people that brought us reincarnation reincarnation teach. It's not necessarily intrinsic to Vedanta or Tibetan Buddhism or any of those systems.

Speaker 2: 24:52

It's very interesting to you talk about this idea of information, as it were. Content, unresolved trauma is used, being held within the etheric body, within the subtle bodies, and then that's somatized, as you said, when the person incarnates, and then we're left to deal effectively with the aftermath through the subconscious, via the unconscious, of things that might pop through, as you say, things that might be attempting, I assume, to find a way to solution. I'm assuming this model is working with the principle that in all ways, in all manners, things are trying to reach a resolution and unfolding and a healing, and that this process is a way of speeding it up, of working with it consciously.

Speaker 1: 25:38

Freud was the one that first came up with the observation that trauma repeats itself, and he called it repetition compulsion. And he was absolutely right. Reception meaning it's something coming from so deep within the subconscious that the conscious mind cannot control. It can barely grasp what's going on, which is why what we say when we get taken over by something, we literally say that I was outside myself, I got taken over right, like this guy with rage. You know when you stand outside yourself going, oh my God, right, that's not me.

Speaker 1: 26:16

Freud was the one that recognized this repetition compulsion, that somebody that's had a trauma in their life will continue to reenact it in either in literal or in symbolic or metaphoric ways. His theory that went along with that was that it is the subconscious attempt to heal, meaning if I re-trigger it next time, I could do something different. It doesn't always happen. Clearly, we see it, and so it's a bit like and this is where Vedanta talks about these samskaras. The repetition compulsion extends to the many lives of the soul. So you know, the soul has an unresolved trauma. It keeps repeating through each incarnation which gets to that subtle body theory, that it isn't just the etheric body that holds these, it's the emotional body and the mental body and the causal body, they all hold those things. So, yeah, when we die we could say that those bodies fall away. Yeah, and there is some spirit, soul parts. That's another discussion. What goes where after death, that's a whole other discussion. But when one reincarnates they pick up. It's like picking up the same clothes you left before. So all of those unresolved imprints are still in the mental body, the emotional body, the vitally etheric body and those energy. Those subtle bodies are the matter that the physical body and incarnation is made from. So they're all here, they're present, and when they pop up is when we get surprised.

Speaker 1: 28:07

Like I said, when the irrational punctures through the conscious mind, is when we're like I don't know why. I would think that. I mean, you know I had people, you know irrational thoughts that pop out of people. When you're exploring this kind of content, you know sometimes they're humorous, like because they're so out of character for that person. Yet the feeling or the affect is there. So in our work we always say you know, one of the first bridges that I teach people in regression is what's called the mental, emotional, somatic bridge, the MES. If you have the thought, the feeling and the body, you will directly go to the source. So, again, if it's a person you know you're not going to be in the mental body, it's something like I know good is the thought, and people can have that their whole life.

Speaker 1: 29:06

It runs in the background, you get the I know good. What is that? What's the emotion associated with that? You know it could be collapse, it could be depression, it could be anxiety. I'm not good. You know it's individual for everybody. But you have to get their feeling. Where do you feel that in the body? Or what does your body want to do when you're feeling that right, that I'm no good. Let's say it goes into a collapse, depressive often, you know in the chest. Okay, so that would be the body posture. If you have all three of those, you can go right into the past life.

Speaker 3: 29:46

It's excellent to be covering like an integrated approach where we understand that healing is most powerful when we can engage as many aspects of ourselves simultaneously and, as you're describing, that mental, emotional, somatic and even those, in a sense, are mapping between the physical and the subtle bodies. In a sense, too, past life regression work in general does get into some domains that are very mysterious. You specialize in some work specifically with ancestral spirits, or what you call also earth bound spirits, so I was wondering if you would talk a little bit about the phenomena of ancestral spirits or earth bound spirits and how they factor into your work.

Speaker 1: 30:30

Again we can go back to Valanta right and the Eastern philosophy that there isn't just one kind of karma and it isn't, as the Judeo-Christian Western overlay would have it, that it's eye for an eye to per tooth or that it's retributed in some way. That's not their picture of karma. There's actually something like 12 or 13 different kinds of karma that all intertwine around one's core karma. So that understanding alone is an interesting thing to look at. So we have our core issues and then the next layer out is the ancestral fields. So, again, counter to the picture of you're sitting on a cloud picking out mommy and daddy, the Tibetan picture of the afterlife goes something more like this you die some traumatic death and you're in the bardo and you, like they would say, that you don't see the supernal light, you don't recognize it as your nature. So the bardo gets progressively more chaotic and dark as you go on until you're at some point where you're being chased by demons and they're just all over the place and you can't, and you're running, and you're running and you're running and you go to jump into a cave to hide and that cave is your next womb. That's their picture of reincarnation, very different than oh, this is a nice mommy, that's a nice mom, daddy, and that specifically, what they're saying is that the demons that are chasing you are your unresolved complexes and they are what drive you to the next womb, so that the next womb that you jump into is going to have a resonance with those particular issues that are your core issues. So you're born into a. You have a poverty complex, let's say that's. You know you have 10 lives of different kinds of poverty loss of everything, you know being Oliver Twist, beggar on the street, different scenarios, but all revolving around one particular issue poverty complex. And you may be born into a family either way immensely wealthy but so hyper focused on the fear of losing it, or poverty right or somewhere in between. You know we scraping to get by, but that has a similar issue to yours. So the idea in our work and what we see comes up all the time is exactly that, just like you have your own unresolved stuff after death that carries those issues and then continues to reincarnate the same kinds of issues reincarnate in family lines that are resonant often to your core issues. So when you start to do your own personal work, let's just continue to use poverty as an example, poverty complex. You know I always say work with those issues first. So you work with your own issues.

Speaker 1: 33:51

Clear out you know as much as you can of the poverty complex for your own incarnations what you will find when you jump out to the ancestral field, which is, you know, another way of exploring these energetic bodies around us. You'll find ancestors, maybe great grandfathers you know that or answers you didn't even know that died with those same issues unresolved. We can work with those ancestral spirits to help them resolve. The effect of that work often is really interesting because one person will be doing that work on their own, nobody in the family knows it, and they'll work with some long ago ancestor that's been and I use the word loosely but not so loosely haunting the family line with their unresolved issue of poverty. Help them get their resources in the bardo, get that ancestral spirit resolved and everybody else in the family field that's still currently living will experience some resolution. It's quite a founding actually, because you know that also has its correlations and modern I mean Hellinger work touches in the same thing. But then prior to that there was Bradshaw, right, if I don't know if you remember Bradshaw who did the picture of the family mobiles. Back in the 60s or 70s he was on PBS, maybe 80s, john Bradshaw, he did these. He had people do these kind of diagrams of their family and the issues and make these mobiles that would show, you know, great grandfather had, grandfather had.

Speaker 1: 35:44

Sometimes the issue skips a generation and guess you know, in the shamanic picture that isn't you know. I know we want to materialize things and say it's genetic and people think, with that materialization of it or that reduction of it, that, oh, we made it physical, so it's in your genes. Well, in the shamanic view, it's the ancestral spirits, right, they're the ones that are continuing to influence the spirit, the line, and so if you help them resolve, it kind of lifts the cloud off the whole family field. And then the other side of that is there are other earthbound spirits that are not ancestral to you, that can attach to you or be in your field in some way, and then through this principle that's known in the spirit world, that like attracts, like, right, it's Roger called the symbolic resonance, there is just like that associative memory dynamic. It's the same with you know, if you have a complex of you know, let's say and it happens a lot in these cases, suicidal thoughts, people that are depressive and maybe have some kind of a relationship with other nations. You often find that there are a bunch of suicidal spirits around them, because like attracts like and that often complicates their own healing process. Earthbound spirits can also carry from other lives, so the people that die in mass trauma often have them.

Speaker 1: 37:27

I remember a guy this is current life I remember it was Pakistan, I think there was a huge earthquake and he was a relief worker and then when he came back he was upset. He said I'm obsessed with starting my nonprofit. I have to keep going back to Pakistan. It's like his family was falling apart. He was spending his personal money. It's like his wife was like screaming at him, like what are you doing? He was a man possess and he would even use those words like I'm upset with the earthquake release. I can't control. It is what he was saying.

Speaker 1: 38:07

Well, when we went into the session, he started to hear, like you know. When we got into that subconscious space, he started to hear like a voice calling, but like muscle through rough, you know, like this through rubble, and he had the spirit of a woman attached to him. I mean, it's really. You know these stories make me cry because they're just people's. And then, after 30 something years of this, I just get touched with. You know all of the things that the humans, human spirits and people have been through.

Speaker 1: 38:48

And this woman was in the rubble with her baby dying and hearing her husband's voice calling to her, trying to, but, so, you know, distant in some way that spirit when he was there on the relief site, you know, attached to him because he was like the husband that was going to save her and she was the one that was driving him to keep going back to Pakistan. I have to save them, I have to save them, I have to find them. So it's like, can be like that. You know, we can pick up earthbound spirits around in our current day life. But we also sometimes, spirits that die in mass traumas together, end up being in clouds of spirits. And when you do your own past life, that's like that you often find there's a whole bunch of other spirits around you that are still stuck in the rubble. So we have to get them all out. So it's like not only do we get you out of the rubble, but the whole cloud of other spirits that may be complicating that feeling of oppression that's in your current life.

Speaker 2: 40:02

So it's like not only do we get you out of the rubble, but the whole cloud of other spirits that may be complicating that feeling of oppression that's in your current life.

Speaker 1: 40:11

I guess I, when I was a kid, like in seventh, eighth grade, I mean I was always into metaphysics, like I was reading Seth in high school. That was, you know, back. I'm dating myself now, but to me that was such a legitimate body of work, right, seth was the bomb Still is to me. But anyway, I was reading Seth back then and I had kind of contact with my own inner teachers and I remember I was probably in high school or something and I was looking in the mirror and whatever I was doing, getting ready in the morning or something, but also in a kind of maybe dreaming state, and I saw like this arc of faces come forward and back from me, recognizing that they were all of these different future selves and past those, but all connected through this moment, the now, and with that came this whole, you know, kind of package, what I used to call little energetic, quantum packages of information. You know, like you would get in channeling like boom, and then I would have to sort through all the information that was just dropped in my head. But it was this idea of like, if we really live in the present and change this moment with full, full, full, full consciousness, which 99.9.9% of us don't do don't have myself included, all of us included but if we do that, we affect the past and the future, and so I was always fascinated with that. And in fact, when I moved four years ago, I was going through all that junk that you carry, you just keeps taking inboxes and put it in the next garage of the house that you live in and I'm like, all right, I finally have to clear this out, I don't want to keep dragging the stuff around me and I found a paper that I had done I totally forgot about this on hypnosis and that's lives in like seventh grade. It was like some project report and I read it and I remembered that I actually regressed somebody, right, whatever. I must have read a book or something on how to do it, but I regressed somebody for this report, right. And then my memory went to I remember sitting in my parents den, like you know, taking somebody into some past life. So anyway, that curiosity was always there.

Speaker 1: 42:50

And then I lived in Germany and during that time when I was in Germany, I was doing more hands on work, energetic kind of. This is back in the 90s, mid 90s, you know. Energetic kind of based in shamanic principles and journeying and people's energy and I would see these past life selves, these ropes around people's necks, these pains on people's risks, and I was working with it energetically at the time. And then I came back to the US and I happened to go to a weekend that Roger was doing at the Omega Institute in New York three 2000. I was like, oh my God, this is what I want.

Speaker 1: 43:38

I wanted this process to combine with that energetic perspective to be able to take somebody through their own process, rather than me taking the chains off or the rope off or this or that in somebody's energy body, which can be effective, but not always. You know, it's like I've had a lot of shamanic work done on me from, you know, real shaman's around the world and none of them ever touched the core story I got to in my first training that I did with Roger, which was a core story to my soul and my complexes. It touched on it like the shamanic stuff People could kind of, you know, not even read the story as much as happened to the affect and how it was affecting my life. Not necessarily the story, but it never moved it Right and it was an issue about speaking up and being seen, and nothing ever touched it until I did regression work. So, having met Roger at Omega, I was like this is it, this is what I've been looking for. So then, yes, of course, I signed up to do the two year training.

Speaker 3: 44:54

Speaking of a training, what? What is coming up for you at the moment in terms of deep memory process or chirocistrology? What do you have going on with your work and training at the moment?

Speaker 1: 45:10

The regression training can only be done in person. There's there's a limited amount. I mean I can do didactic lecturing. Well, you know, forever, because I talk about it for two years in a training, right. So so you know that part can be done by a zoom, but you need the experience to actually do the process, you need to do your own work and guide other people through it. So those only can happen live, and so certainly during COVID I didn't do that. So the trainings are four or five day modules, usually two a year, like spring and fall and spring and fall, and so I'll keep launching level ones now that we're back up and running. So, yes, DMP trainings are starting up again. And chiroc I haven't done and I'm thinking I might do one this year.

Speaker 1: 46:04

Chirocist is a really interesting thing that kind of dropped into my head about I don't know, six years ago. Because, again, you know, I've been deep in the astrology world as well and again, to me there's such a vast difference between talking about something and doing something about it right, and I'm so not interested in talking about people's problems, I'm so interested in going there with you and resolving it as much as we can in any given moment. So astrology and rightfully so kind of follows that tends to follow that counseling dynamic. Somebody is telling you something about your chart. Again, there's nothing wrong with that, because if you're not trained as a counselor or to go deeper into psychological astrology, you shouldn't be doing it with people. So astrology is information based and it can emotionally move people and it can give them information that can be life changing. No doubt about that. But I want more, Right? You know so to me, I want to harness I've wanted to, like I have done all my life harness this power of the subconscious and the imagination to get content that's deeper than the conscious mind.

Speaker 1: 47:29

So you know, Kairas also follows those same kind of modalities like psychodrama and Gestalt, where we can actually get in and role play, you know, squares or different planets, or explore the archetypes on the subconscious level, to directly kind of access what are the archetypes about, instead of the how, instead of what we ascribe them to be. You know we have a subscribe to certain amounts of meaning, to areas. But you know, maybe if you open up to the archetype of areas, that might have something else to show you much less. We're using a lot of imagery. Imagery, you know, psychodrama, Gestalt. Those are the key ways to kind of access that kind of content.

Speaker 1: 48:25

So Kairas was designed to be an experiential training for people, that teaching them methodology of how to work with imagery with other people and because I've done it with clients to just off the charts. Right, we'll look at the chart and we can call up an image for your Saturn and Aquarius or something. Let the image come to life and work with that image, which is going to give you a much deeper understanding of what Saturn, Aquarius is doing in your life, and people are quite amazed by it. You know, I've been doing it with my chart for years, so I was like I might as well just, you know, teach people how to do this, get a bunch of people together and do some experiential work, which which I've done, and they were a lot of fun and insightful and all kinds of things. So, yeah, may do one this year.

Speaker 2: 49:20

Thanks, patricia. We'll be sure to include the relevant websites domain names in the show notes as well for both projects, and just to thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. It's been a real pleasure. It's such a fascinating area of past life phenomenology and to hear you discuss it so factually, knowledgeably, in such a grounded way has been a real insight. Okay.

Speaker 1: 49:42

Thank you.

Speaker 3: 49:46

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