Sound Healing, Neuroscience & Expanded Consciousness with Tom Kenyon

Tom Kenyon on Sound Healing, Neuroplasticity & the Hathors: Frequency, Consciousness & Spiritual Evolution

Join us for an extraordinary conversation with Tom Kenyon, pioneering sound healer, psychotherapist, and psychoacoustic researcher, as he shares how sound can rewire the brain, open portals of consciousness, and guide us toward deep spiritual growth.

With a four-octave vocal range and decades of study across neuroscience, Tibetan Buddhism, Taoism, and shamanic practices, Tom reveals how frequency and intention can activate altered states of consciousness, stimulate neuroplasticity, and awaken dormant aspects of the self.

We trace Tom’s remarkable evolution—from early experiments using sound to shift mood, to a spontaneous kundalini awakening that ignited extrasensory perception and sent him on a path of scientific and spiritual integration. He also recounts his ongoing collaboration with the Hathors, a group of interdimensional beings, and how he navigated their presence with grounded discernment.

In this episode, we explore:

• How sound shapes consciousness and perception
• The science of neuroplasticity and psychoacoustics
• Tom’s transformation from traditional therapist to spiritual teacher
• The role of intentionality in healing and transformation
• Encounters with the Hathors and their energetic transmissions
• The future of sound healing and humanity’s evolutionary edge

This is an expansive journey into the power of vibration, the sacred potential of the voice, and the importance of heart-centered presence in shaping our world.

🔗 Tom Kenyon: tomkenyon.com

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

What sound does, when it's applied properly, is it creates a flexibility in the consciousness of the person receiving it. Their brain mind becomes more fluid. We move from particulate matter to waveforms accustomed to moving. That's their nature to move. So when we shift a person into this increased fluidity of perception, like increase of alpha activity in their brain, perhaps theta activity, they're going to be perceiving the same thing they were before in a different way, because the brain has changed its orientation and everything else in the body, all the field effects are interacting to create change in perception.

Speaker 2 0:47

Welcome to the Field Dynamics podcast. We're here to facilitate inspiring dialogues about the nature of consciousness across disciplines, communities and practitioners, all with a holistic perspective.

Speaker 3 0:59

From energy healing to somatic therapies, from neuroscience to meditation. We believe the most interesting things happen at the boundaries of disciplines.

Speaker 2 1:08

I'm Christabel.

Speaker 3 1:09

And I'm Keith.

Speaker 2 1:10

Thanks for joining us today and enjoy the episode. Hello and welcome to the Field Dynamics podcast. Today we are joined by Tom Kenyon. Tom is one of the most respected sound healers in the world today A researcher, composer, author, psychotherapist and teacher.

Speaker 2 1:37

He is regarded as a pioneer in the field of psychoacoustic research and is an acclaimed practitioner of psychoacoustic healing, dedicating his life to integrate modern science with ancient mysticism through the power of sound. He boasts a rare ability to decipher the healing properties of sound vibrations. Following a series of mystical experiences that forever altered his path, tom dove into neurophysiology to understand his spiritual insights. He has since studied the ancient wisdoms of Tibetan Buddhism, taoism, christianity, shamanism, egyptian alchemy and Hinduism, as well as the sciences relative to each spiritual journey. Tom employs his nearly four octave range voice in tandem with other acoustic instruments to induce altered states of consciousness that help access heightened creativity and spiritual insight. He holds a Bachelor of Arts in Communications, drama and Speech from the University of North Carolina, where he also received the Raymond Taylor Award for Excellence in the Performing Arts. Additionally, tom has completed coursework in Humanistic and Psychological Counseling, breathwork and Medical Hypnosis through Columbia Pacific University and the Southeast Institute for Group and Family Therapy. Welcome, tom. It's a pleasure to have you here. We're so delighted to connect with you today.

Speaker 1 3:06

Thank you, nice to be here.

Speaker 2 3:08

I wonder if you could share with us in opening how you first became interested in sound healing and its transformative potential.

Speaker 1 3:17

Well remember as a child swing in the backyard under a big oak tree and I that's my one of my favorite times was Twilight and I would sing to the stars and the moon as a little boy in a swing, and my mom said she would have to come out and drag me into dinner because I was so infatuated by whatever that experience was. It started to solidify, actually under tremendous period of stress in my life. My family went through a financial crisis, we had to leave our house, moved to a very funky apartment and it was the wintertime, I guess the rates were really low and I discovered that I could go into the rec room and sing because it had a. It was a very large room, so it had an echo and I could travel on the sound. I didn't know what I was doing, but I knew every time I did that I felt better.

Speaker 1 4:06

So there's something about the human voice. Whether you have quote unquote musical ability or not, it's immaterial, but when you engage your voice and listen to it, magical things can happen, because changes take place in the brain and mind. For me it was a deep relaxation, a reduction of stress, and I didn't realize at 11 years old that the stress was coming from my family. I was just part of the you know gestalt, if you will, and I remember one day somebody came down, the first time ever anybody came into that room, and he was a man. I'm a 11 year old boy and he says I don't mean to disturb you, but I wanted to tell you that you will heal many people in this world with that voice, which was really odd. And then he just turned and left. So that started, I guess, an intersection of my recognition that I could change how I feel through sound. And then this very strange encounter which I didn't know how to deal with for many, many years.

Speaker 3 5:07

What do you think is the difference in the effect of using the voice versus things like singing bowls, tuning forks or other instruments?

Speaker 1 5:15

Well, Dr Valerie Hunt, who was an extraordinary physiologist. At UCLA. I did a lot of research in the whole area of subtle energy and I got to know her. She was a really extraordinary person and she said that in her opinion this was based on decades of research that the most powerful movement of consciousness could come through the human voice, because the human voice could alter the quantum field. That's how she viewed that. So all the other instruments have their place and we can create changes using crystal balls or drums or even probably, kazoos. If you did it right With the intentionality, if the intentionality is strong, then these instruments are wonderful allies. I think what happens with the human voice? Because the brain mind recognizes that when we're singing it's me, it's us, it's coming from us. So it's an interesting loop that takes place that doesn't occur with external instruments.

Speaker 2 6:16

You spoke there of the importance of intentionality in this process, and I'd love to hear a little bit more about that in terms of its relevance to sound healing, particularly using the voice being powerful and effective.

Speaker 1 6:29

The title of your podcast is Field Dynamics and I assume you're talking about energetic field effects that occur within oneself and externally. So the intentionality is one of the most important aspects in that when, if you have a particular intention and you align with that intention and you're creating a sound pattern, the sound pattern begins to encode that intentionality somehow and then it has a field effect. First of all, the field effect is on your own brain and mind and what we would call the energy field. The ancient called it the aura. We don't use that word in science because you won't get any funding, but it's the same thing. So the field effects go out into the auric field. From Dr Valerie Hunt's work we know that it projects into the environment and then has an effect on the environment, especially other sentient beings who can respond to that, including plants. I've noticed plants will respond, especially pets, animals.

Speaker 3 7:31

I find very often with people we're doing training with, etc. That because a lot of it is online and they're in their home environment, their cats and dogs and what have you love to come over quite often, quite significantly in terms of the regularity of this, come over and hang out with their owner and lay on their lap, or what have you when we're doing the healing work and stuff. So the sensitivity at that animal level seems to be really prevalent and obvious.

Speaker 1 7:58

Yeah, it's true and I got a many, many years ago I got an email from a woman in Africa who was at her animal refuge site and she was helping and she said the animals that could roam freely would come to her hut at night because when she finished work she went to her little hut and had open windows and she said giraffes and chimpanzees and all the different animals that were mobile came to the hut to listen to the music. It happened to be waveform that she was working with and then, when it was over, they left. It's very interesting how animals respond to positive energies and negative energies and sound. They're very connected.

Speaker 3 8:42

Yeah, in general, you have a real interest and focus on your work and how it relates to neurological changes in the nervous system, as you mentioned just recently. Why do you think it's important or what do you want to convey about understanding the nervous system in relation to the work that you do?

Speaker 1 8:59

Well, that's a very important question Our nervous systems. We now know from neuroscience that our nervous system, our brain and the nerve pathways are constantly changing in response to external environment and internal environment. It used to be that we pivoted on everything that is important. It's happening externally. Now the picture is getting that it's both the external environment and the internal environment, and so what the changes that take place in the internal environment actually can affect neurogenesis, the networking of nerves in the brain.

Speaker 1 9:39

So what I would want to convey is that the science is clear, that our brain is constantly recreating itself, like in this dialogue that I'm having with both of you. In order to answer the questions as deeply as I can, I have to search for what's going on, what the response is, and that response comes from the neurological organization of my brain, which goes back to the moment of conception, and every experience I've had, every experience, you've had, every experience, every sentient being, especially as mammals that have had in our lives, affect how our brains organize, and that organization affects our perception. What the new exciting thing in neuroscience is showing is that we have the capacity to change the neurological networking of our own brain, and that's really for me a very exciting and important pivotal point.

Speaker 2 10:35

So how is it that we view income the mind here in relation to the brain and the physical body? I know you address this in your book Brain States and I'd love to hear that discussed particularly or address in the context of your sound healing sessions and what your experiencing is happening there.

Speaker 1 10:54

For me it's an interesting juxtaposition of what the sciences say and then what ancient traditions say. Because I had so many mystical tradition experiences, I had to go into and explore all these different traditions to figure out what was going on with me. And so there is something called mind. Carl Prebrem, one of the imminent neuroscientists researchers, said that there is no such thing as the mind. The mind is a process that runs parallel to the brain, and what he meant by that is the physiological processes in our brains are actually responsible for our mental impressions and experiences. Then there's something called in Tibetan Buddhism a seme, meaning great mind, big mind, and that's the non-localized mind. That aspect of consciousness is not connected directly to the sensory experience we're having. Our brain is processing primarily sensory experience related to the external world, our internal impressions. But when we slip into these altered states, whatever vehicle we're using, we can tap into what's called big mind, meaning non-localized consciousness. And then it gets very interesting, because in non-localized consciousness you can have experiences that transcend the phenomena of your sensory world.

Speaker 3 12:17

This kind of liminality or edge that we might describe between the local human consciousness and the bigger C, big mind consciousness, is one of those paradigms or causal explanatory forays that seems to hold a real promise for re-envisioning how we think about ourselves, our interconnectivity, our place in the universe, the scientific paradigm we're functioning under right now, what we're talking about here and we often go into this in one way or another with a reasonable percentage of people we speak to on the podcast, because spiritual traditions kind of speak opposite to what the contemporary paradigm is and furthermore direct experience, mystical experience etc. Can potentially show us living now that in fact the paradigm we're working within is seemingly incorrect. From our own direct experience, would you say that's been your experience.

Speaker 1 13:13

Spot-on, yes, and I find, and also my own personal inquiry that juxtaposition, I think, is very crucial between our physicality and the part of our consciousness that can be beyond, transcend our physicality and all our senses. But bringing them together is a very important action, I think. At this moment I'm reminded of the manual Kant's description of thesis, antithesis, synthesis. So when you have two opposite positions say, like in Western neurology, it's just the brain, is just physical stuff, that's all there is Then we have the antithesis which says no, no, no, no, no. There's something larger that operates independent of our brain. What could that be? Well, the two are in conflict, but there's a synthesis that will arise, always a synthesis will arise and that synthesis, I think, is the growth edge for many of us, which is how do we integrate ourselves as a human being into this world but at the same time be connected to the vastness that we are? That's a crucial movement for me and, I thank, for many of us.

Speaker 2 14:23

We mentioned there in the bio, you've spent much time learning many different traditions and I wonder if a particular tradition has had more resonance for you.

Speaker 1 14:33

It's the Tibetan Buddhism, specifically Vajrayana and Zogchen. So behind is a tanga from Tibet and it's the Kali chakra. And the Kali chakra is a central feature of certain aspects of Vajrayana and it is a depiction that if you go deep enough into the center there's a male and female figure that are embracing and then everything that comes out of that is coming out of that interaction between the male and female. So from our Western perspective there's a map of the archetypes of the male and the female and their field effects between the two of them actually create a movement that goes out into the entire cosmos. So I thought that was a nice poignant tanga to put behind me as we talk about this, because this is an example of field effects from an ancient tradition hundreds of years old Right.

Exploring Kundalini and Sound Healing

Speaker 3 15:26

And speaking of that archetype of masculine feminine, we could kind of connect that to Kundalini and the idea that when we bring the Eda and the Pingala, the sun and the moon, the masculine and the feminine archetypal energies within us into a certain state of balance, we activate or catalyze a transformative process. And this is described very well structurally in the Kundalini traditions and you yourself have talked about your experience with Kundalini. For instance, in the documentary of your song of the New Earth, you describe a major transformational experience of yours when you were in college and I was curious if you would, if you have any. I know you've spoken about this extensively in other places, potentially, but if you want to mention anything about that experience and in particular, how might that have precipitated neurological and perceptual changes in yourself?

Speaker 1 16:22

Wow, that's a great question. So the Kundalini experience I had in college, as I reported in the movie, was very interesting. Fortunately well, to give context to those who haven't known about this story I was practicing many different mystical traditions, their meditations, when I was in college, but I wasn't aware at that point that the need to ground, I was ungrounded and I was having amazing psychic experiences. And I was in a quadrangle where there was building the dorms are very high and I could feel this was my subjective experience. I'm not saying this is what happened, I'm saying this was my subjective experience. I could see through the walls. I saw people in their rooms. I could feel their angst, their hopes, their dreams, their sexual attractions, the craziness of being in your 20s, a whole group of people together in their 20s. That's pretty interesting. And all of a sudden I felt this snap and this rush of energy up my spine into my brain and I was suddenly whoa sick. I was like, and I walked toward the Student Health Center and I finally, when I got close, I had to crawl because my muscles were losing control. I crawled into the Student Health Center and the nurse looked at me and, like, took my temperature and she said I'll be right back and she ran and got a doctor and fortunately I presented physical symptoms. I had a fever. I wasn't put in the nut ward, I was put in the people who were sick and for five days I went in through this unbelievable from me journey through my underworld, because what happened was the Kundalini just surges things and if you're not, ideally you do relax, enter into the Kundalini mystery in a way that is guided and paced according to what you need. But I was just a young you know whippersnapper and I just charged heaven and the price tag was I was sick for five days and that neurological integration. It took me months to get reconstructed. I had to reconstruct myself and in many ways I still went to class because, honestly, you don't need much brainpower to sit in the class and follow things, but it took several months.

Speaker 1 18:46

The Kundalini tradition is all over the world. The most common understood source is India, of course, and the various yogas and especially the Kundalini yoga. I find it very interesting that the in the Hindu system is Shakti, which is the Kundalini Shakti. Shakti is the fundamental energy that vibrates everything and the Kundalini comes out of that and, as it rises through the centers, through the different chakras, it activates those levels of consciousness. So it's a way to move upward in a visceral way, meaning your physicality is involved in Kundalini yoga. It's not something out in the abstract, and I also think there is a very important point in the Kundalini tradition, as it has been inherited by the West and is now being engaged, and it is the, what I would call the, a misinterpretation of the nature of Kundalini, and this comes out of something called Kumbhaka, which Patanjali talked about in his sutras, and Kumbhaka is the spontaneous retention of breath.

Speaker 1 19:55

We know from neurological studies that when you go into a deep state of consciousness, like meditation or sleep, even your brain changes its brainwave patterns and so as you approach the deepest states of Delta, you go to Alpha and that's relaxes. You have a relaxed awareness. When you enter theta, you have more visions. This is the place of dreams. And then, of course, delta is sleep, and but as you engage, those very acid, various aspects of mind, the Kundalini Shakti is, if you're working with it is moving through your subtle body and various in very specific ways.

Speaker 1 20:35

The point I wanted to make, how I think it's an error, how we have, how we're working with Kundalini, is that we have. It's almost like a patriarchal attitude toward Kundalini. So again, we know that when you go into a meditative state your breath will some get very shallow and sometimes stop. This has been observed by physiologist. Nothing to do with spiritual tradition, just the mechanics of the brain. When you are engaging the Kundalini there is.

Speaker 1 21:09

The key words in Patanjali's description was spontaneous, retention of breath spontaneous.

Speaker 1 21:16

So when in innocence we enter into contact with this bigger mind, which we would call the Atma in Hinduism, things change very rapidly and if we're in that place in innocence, our breath will follow.

Speaker 1 21:33

You don't have to change the breath, your breath will follow. Now what happens is in some Kundalini traditions in the West you pull Muladhara and you do these things to force the Kundalini to rise, force the Kundalini to rise, and I think that's an error, because the Kundalini is a feminine energy, it is the nature. In the metaphorical perspective, the Kundalini is an expression of the cosmic, primordial, feminine wisdom. And to override it with egoic, like holding in a whip kind of, and say up, up, up to the great white lotus at the top of the head, I think that's a less elegant way of dealing with Kundalini and I think it's a subtle example of how the masculine overrides the feminine, and I believe that in our spiritual traditions, every one of them, we need to switch it so that the feminine and masculine elements are in balance and each are honored. So I have an issue with forcing the Kundalini to rise, and I think that's a very important philosophical point.

Speaker 2 22:46

Yeah, it's beautiful to hear you speak of that, tom. At Field Dynamics we have a very particular approach, very much in line with what you're sharing here around simply working with the subtle anatomy, the structure in terms of a preparation, if anything. So working to clear and clarify the field in order that that process, that Kundalini process, unfolds, if appropriate for the individual, as and when, as opposed to some kind of forceful movements. It's very nice to hear you speak of that. You mentioned the subtle bodies. You've spoken of the energy centers. I know you've studied many of these ancient traditions and many of our listeners are interested in the subtle anatomy of the body and working with that and I wonder how that information, that understanding, has informed your practice as a sound healer, or if it does at all, in fact.

Speaker 1 23:37

Yeah, what I've noticed is that when I work with sound I mean, all sound practitioners have their own way of working but when I work, my attempt is to get out of the way and shamanism we call it become the clear channel, the clear and open read, so that the energy patterns, the codes of the sound can flow through me in accord with the intention of the other person or the group I'm working with. So I don't actually have any mental activity around sending the sound to a specific area in the body of the person or the group I'm working with, with a few exceptions. So generally it's just the sound and what I've noticed is that the sound energies will go into the field of the person that's being worked and go to specific areas that are needed, but I don't calculate where it needs to go. I kind of surrender to the wisdom of this transcendent energy field that I'm accessing.

Speaker 3 24:35

Some of the work you do involves bringing in you've used the word channeling, so channeling beings or forms of consciousness that can be pretty abstract, can be pretty for some people like, oh, where is this kind of coming from? And one example would be the Hathors, for instance. So you say on your site, for instance, that the Hathors are a group of interdimensional, intergalactic beings who are connected in ancient Egypt through the temples of the goddess Hathor, as well as several other prehistory cultures, and in the 80s, that you were contacted by them during a meditation and they began to instruct you in the vibratory nature of the cosmos, et cetera, and that you were intrigued by this information but at the same time kind of uncomfortable with what you were being shown, if you will, extremely uncomfortable. So how might we view the Hathors into our view of reality and what's your sensing of them, if you will, as it is channeled through you?

Hathors, Metaphysical Realities and Science

Speaker 1 25:39

When I come across something new, a new paradigm or a new field of information that I'm not familiar with, I engage what I call open-minded skepticism, which is I'm skeptical you've got to prove it to me but I'm not going to close my mind. There might be a possibility. This is true, but I'm not sure. In that particular episode that you described in my life, I was a practicing psychotherapist. I had a quote-unquote reputation, blah, blah, blah and they violated my sense of reality. What they told me? They came from another universe. They came through serious. They went to Venus. Oh yeah, great, venus is hot gases. How in the heck are you going to survive there? And they said, well, we're not. We're etheric beings. So it just got more and more interesting and challenging. And so what I did?

Speaker 1 26:29

I noticed that they gave me some techniques with sacred geometry very early on, and so I started working with that, and I could tell that my brain was processing and performing better. That was undeniable. So I thought well, either I'm deluded and just self-hypnotizing myself, let's go test it out. So I went to three cities in Washington state, offered a free course in increased creativity and brain performance I didn't tell anybody where this was from and taught these geometries and people had amazing recoveries from depression and increased creativity, clear brain performance increase.

Speaker 1 27:03

I won't go into all the stories because we don't have the time, but it was remarkable. So I had to verify, I had to accept. Okay, I might not be able to accept who these beings say they are, because I still think it's a delusion, but the techniques they give me are having verifiable results. So I go back to something my aunt Vera said to me a long time ago when I was a child the proof is in the pudding, tom, the proof is in the pudding. We can have all these theories, but if it actually creates a change, maybe that's significant. So that's where I began to accept a deeper communication with these beings.

Speaker 3 27:41

Could you give an example of what you mean by teaching a geometry?

Speaker 1 27:45

And one of the first things that happened for me prior to their meeting, which I thought was very interesting because this is an example of a field effect in my mind. So there, I think they were approaching me and I was beginning to pick up the approach of something I wasn't familiar with. Our house at the time had a deck on the back and nobody could see us, so I was in the back tracing these shapes through this air. I didn't even know what it was. And then after a while I written oh yeah, that's a platonic solid, that's a dodecahedron, that's an acosahedron. Wow, this is really trippy. And then a few days later, when the pathers came through and they gave me instructions based on the platonic solids, so that thought that was an interesting phenomenon, right there.

Speaker 2 28:31

I'd love to hear, tom particularly for those who might be new to your work how this relationship with the pathers developed, how it is that that informs your practice, how they show up, if you will, in terms of the healing sessions.

Speaker 1 28:44

I need to break it down into categories. So there's my personal response and work with them, and then there's the collective. And so the collective. Let's focus on that because it's more important than my own story.

Speaker 1 28:57

One of the things I found fascinating is that the pathers, when they want me to do something like a sound meditation to be released, they approach me sometimes a few days before, sometimes at three in the morning. For some reason, they love three in the morning. Of course, in the Hindu tradition this is the, the Aurobama, where the sun it's the most still point on where you are on earth. They love that time. I don't particularly like to wake up at three o'clock in the morning and they've told me get up and go downstairs record. Now I'm giving you more emphasis. They don't command anything. They're very gentle, they do not impose. They say we would like for you to consider. That's a really good language.

Speaker 1 29:40

What I've noticed is that some of their sound meditations like the latest one, the Tree of Life, flower of Life, or the Reverse they approached me a few days before the very intense cosmic alignment of an eclipse that occurred. They said we would like you to go down and start to record soon. I set up the studio and I went down and I recorded it during the actual progression of the eclipse. The actual last hour of the zenus of the eclipse was when I laid down the last track and then it was done. It has an energy that I think this is my subjective experience. I don't know how to verify it, but it feels like when those sound codes were brought forward. It has the energy that they have there, but it also has the energy of the cosmic alignments at that time. Somehow all of that is encoded. The latest sound meditation Flower of Life, tree of Life. We've been getting emails from all over the world and people were having unbelievably powerful transformational experiences with it. For me it's the most powerful thing they've given to date.

Speaker 3 30:52

We always like to ask people who have developed subtle sensing abilities what that is like for them. What's that inner landscape sensory experience? Using the haplers is just an example, because we're there. How is it that your inner sensing tells you this is the voice coming from them, versus a general thought of yours, et cetera? Is it a quality, a sound, a vibrational piece? Is it seeing it in a particular way? What's your internal sensing and form of discernment for this kind of thing?

Speaker 1 31:27

I think discernment is really important. When you start interacting with beings quote unquote from other worlds, because there's a lot of shysters out there there's a quality to them that is immediately calming and heart-centered. In fact, when I actually communicate with them, when I realize they're approaching me, I need to place my awareness in my heart chakra and relax and allow the heart chakra to create a field effect in my own energy body so that I can be receptive, because what I've noticed is that their vibration is there. It is unconditional love. It's a very unusual form of empathy that embraces the entire cosmos. It is so vast their sense of heart connection.

Speaker 1 32:16

I have to go into a heart connection in order to get the right communication. I've noticed I've been doing this for many years that if I'm agitated and I can't get to the heart of the matter, so to speak, and open and be in that vibratory field, then I'm not going to get a clear communication. I need to stop and prepare the ground of my own nervous system, subtle bodies, to receive the information. I can't receive the information purely if I'm agitated in my own kaka.

Speaker 2 32:47

I'm interested, tom, in how you spoke quite honestly about how they sort of violated your sense, your perception of reality. Right there, you are a practicing psychotherapist, involved in brain research at the time, as you've described it, a rationalist, and then these beings are not fitting into that framework and I wonder how you might envision how we as humans perceive reality versus how it might be understood in that, in the multidimensional, holistic nature.

Speaker 1 33:18

Well, that's really an important question and I think it's a pivotal point in human psychology and especially the interface between personal psychology and transpersonal psychology. So we all have this personal aspect of personal history, the stories we have that come out of our experiences, and that is all true and valid, but it's only one part of the picture. Another part of the picture is this expanded consciousness. And when we are in that state of elevated, we might say expanded consciousness and we look back at our life from that perspective, our entire life seems like a dream and in fact in the ancient traditions they talk about this. In Hinduism and Buddhism it's a dream. In Buddhism they said, the body that we think is so solid, they call it the illusory body because it's an illusion, it is a temporary manifestation of light and energy, consciousness creating light and energy, and it's constantly changing. There's nothing to hold onto except what is deeper inside, because the externals are always fluctuating.

Speaker 3 34:26

And, of course, this perspective that you're sharing is, again an ancient teaching, but also something that we have access to and can know directly ourselves now. And it's very hard to understand how we might connect this to a scientific framework, like how does one say, okay, there's a theory and I'm going to try it out personally, right, because these aren't things that are about laboratories, they're about your inner laboratory. So you tested out yourself through arduous, painstaking effort and you find out that stuff is true, right, and you can even to the degree that you could say I know it's true or I think it's really, really, really, really, really likely, true. How do we resolve this schism between spirituality and science and is there a way to bridge these two to the degree that these deeper questions and profound knowings that we might discover can be?

Speaker 1 35:26

Yeah, well, there's two things. One is science. The act of creating science is kind of like the demigod of our civilization right now. Science has all the answers. I would say science has some of the answers but by its very nature cannot answer certain fundamental questions about the nature of consciousness, for instance. So, as a scientific method, if you look at the research of the current researchers in the field of physics and neuropsychology and quantum mechanics, their language gets more and more mystical. We're starting to. The ones that are really going deep into this are sounding more and more like mystics out of India and Tibet and Greece, and it's really fascinating.

Speaker 1 36:13

So what's critical in science, as you know, is simply measurement and quantification. Once you can measure something quantified, you can make a comment about it, but you can't actually get to what the root of that is, underneath the phenomena of the various things that are occurring. So science, for instance, it's been found that when a person meditates, regardless of the tradition they are in, there's a certain area of the brain called the orientation area, and its purpose is to map out physical space. So we don't bump into things. That's its function. It takes all the sensory information. We're walking across the room and it says move left, move right. When we're in a state of meditation, that center becomes dormant, it just kind of goes to sleep.

Speaker 1 37:04

The cues that we're getting spatially, like in those meditations that we have, and we experience ourselves moving through a space or a territory that's being generated by the consciousness, our own consciousness, it is not information about the sensory world, and so that's very interesting to me that they're beginning to actually be able to trace the movement of energy through the brain, specific areas of the brain, in response to something that's happening externally, and it can be quantified and measured.

Speaker 1 37:39

But the internal, deep internal, at this point cannot be quantified or measured and therefore science cannot comment on it at this point in its development. I personally believe that in the next, I think around the verge of either absolute oblivion and destruction or a planetary renaissance on so many levels I'm holding for the renaissance and I think if we get through this passage and into the renaissance, science will evolve and have an expanded way of dealing with things and they may be able to answer some of those questions, the deeper questions that can't be quantified and measured. But at this point science cannot comment about many of these things. I can talk about the phenomenon that come out of it, but they can't actually talk about what actually is going on.

Speaker 2 38:23

And you're talking here of a pivotal shift that we are, as you say, all crossing our fingers for right in this, hopefully, the movement of consciousness or the question of consciousness, into the scientific realm, so that we can start to overlay scientific models that are starting to develop currently with what's been known or understood and language somewhat differently by the ancient traditions for a long, long time. I'd love to sort of move this back towards this world of healing and this word healing and the field dynamics model. When we're speaking of healing, we're fundamentally talking of purification in many ways, of bringing greater coherence and harmony to the energy field itself by releasing dissonance and distortion, and I'd love to hear you share in your own words how you feel sound, the vibration of sound, the vibratory nature is working with the energy field, or how I suppose, in short of asking, is how sound produces healing.

Speaker 1 39:24

In my understanding of sound. So if you talk to me a few months from now, I might have a different understanding, but this is how I am oriented at this moment and it's that sound doesn't heal anything. What sound does, when it's applied properly, is it creates a flexibility in the consciousness of the person receiving it. Their brain, mind, becomes more fluid. In that fluidity we move from particulate matter to waveforms and the waveforms are much more accustomed to moving. That's their nature to move. So when we shift a person, help a person to shift into this increased fluidity of perception, like increase of alpha activity in their brain, perhaps data activity they're going to be perceiving the same thing they were before in a different way because the brain has changed this orientation and everything else in the body, all the field effects, are interacting to create a change in perception.

Speaker 1 40:19

An example is many, many years ago I received an email from a woman in Mexico and she had gone to Mexico on a vacation and had developed gallstones and she was in a place in Mexico where there were no hospitals nearby and she didn't have anything except this tape. This that goes back. How old this is. She had a tape called Psychoimmunology that I created to stimulate the immune system. So she listened to that. That's the only thing she could do. She was in terrible pain and in the course of I don't know a few days the pain disappeared, and so that looks like a miracle. Well, it is miraculous, but it's really not a miracle when you look at the deeper interconnections. So how I look at it is that particular set of recordings increased alpha and theta activity in the brain and gave suggestions about the immune system functioning at a higher level, and so what happened for her, I think, was because she had experienced the work before and she knew it could create changes for her. She believed and that's the operative word, she believed that this tape, psycho-humanology was going to change things for her, and it did, and we call it the placebo effect Now in science as pharmacology.

Speaker 1 41:42

This placebo effect is actually something to be dealt with, and it's kind of annoying because it affects your research data. The whole thing with drug studies is to make sure that if you give a pill that has nothing and you give another pill that has the new drug, the new drug has to create a response bigger than the placebo effect, and so then they just dismiss it. But they've missed the point, they've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. The placebo effect is the power of our own consciousness to self-reflect and hold an intentionality. Yeah, this is going to work and bang, magic happens.

Speaker 3 42:19

It's making me think of the way that you just described that, the idea that how things work from that particle-to-wave concept, is that when we're open, when we're non-rigid, when we're fluid, we allow change to happen. And if we talk about beliefs and we believe something can be true, then we open ourselves to the fluidity from our present moment reality into that potential future. I view it the same way In terms of how you yourself conduct a session. We'll say this at the end as well, but for anybody listening to this, they definitely need to listen to a session of yours. It is, for me, most powerful sound-tealing, most enjoyable sound-tealing I've ever experienced, for sure. And I'm wondering when you actually perform a session. I'm going to guess at this. So are you setting an intention and then letting that intention drop into that quantum field, or drop into the field, and then you yourself open up to what moves through you? Is that an apt description or how would you add to that that's?

Speaker 1 43:23

absolutely it. For me as a practitioner, I need to be in curiosity and innocence. I need to be in innocence so that my stuff doesn't you know. Oh, let's make the sound, do this for this effect. Then that's intervening between the field effect from this other dimension that's trying to bring something of benefit. So the first thing is, you know, discrimination and separation from that my own stuff involved and the other one is to relax into the intentionality and know that out of curiosity I just have to be innocent and curious and whatever arises is going to be interesting and it is an interaction between me and the group or me and the person, and it can be. Those effects can be so vast.

Speaker 1 44:12

I was there was a workshop and there was a woman who had not. She came in during a break and she was crying and we asked what was going on and she said she had healed in relationship with her sister that she had in. Her sister had been estranged for 20 years. We had just finished a session on healing family dynamics. She went somewhere to take a break in her phone ring and it was her sister who hadn't talked to her in 20 years and said I'd like to heal our relationship. That's an example of field effects generated from the consciousness of the group and the individual. I mean, it gets so beautifully complex.

Speaker 2 44:46

Can I ask, Tom, in that instance you're citing an example of an ancestral healing session. How might that vary? Is that in your intention, in terms of, as you said, you're not directing the energy to a specific aspect of the field, but how might a session where the intention is heart healing versus ancestral healing do that? Is it purely an intentionality? Is it in the type of music or sound that's being delivered? How's that working?

Speaker 1 45:14

If we're talking about when I'm doing a sound session, the sound signatures, the sound codes that will come out of the sound of the voice will be different for the heart. I'm working with the heart or specific organ of the body versus something like the ancestral work. So there are differences. But I don't calculate what those sounds will be. Again, they happen. I watch it and I recognize oh, this sound pattern just shifted. But it's a recognition. It's not making it change. In the early days I made sound change. Now I don't.

Speaker 1 45:48

I let the sound present itself in its innocence and its poignancy, and surrender to that impulse of creation and creating something positive, benefit and see and write it, so to speak, and see where it takes us. It always takes us into a fabulous place.

Speaker 2 46:07

And how might a client, when you're working with a group or an individual, how might their intentionality input into a session?

Speaker 1 46:15

It has a huge effect. Let's talk about conscious intentionality and unconscious intentionality. Earlier there was a moment where we were talking about particle and wave, and so one way of viewing this is that when we go into these altered states and we create a sound pattern that affects other people, that's creating a field effect that's actually affecting the person and they have an opportunity to move from a particle, so to speak you know that metaphor which is contained to a wave, and a wave is movement. So the unconscious intentionality of a client when they sit with you is that they may come for healing consciously, but unconsciously, they may have parts of themselves that don't want that at all and will do everything possible to make sure it doesn't happen, and that's a very interesting point.

Speaker 1 47:04

So when we hit resistance, so to speak, it's not a negative, it is simply information. The field is giving information, we're resisting this. Then you get to go and explore what the resistance is and then, if you explore the resistance properly, then it actually turns into greater fluidity, because the person can be at peace with it. Even though it's very difficult, material, somehow something shifts and they can be with it. Then the opportunity for movement can occur.

Speaker 3 47:36

It's interesting how you're describing facilitating a session, because it's really exactly the same, you know, fundamentally, as what we would be teaching people to do as well, with energy, work in terms of you have to set the intention up, but beyond that, you're allowing things to reveal themselves to you and getting out of the way, fundamentally, and with the skills of, like you've said, curiosity and open-mindedness, and also, you know, maybe we'd add in flavors like non-judgment and compassion, etc. Where you know that which arises that might be uncomfortable or that the biases of the ego might tend to want to judge. You know to keep that in check and to witness it and allow yourself to be the witness or the observer of all of those kind of dynamics, subservient to the big mind, if you will. I'm curious in that sense, though do you work with individuals at this point?

Speaker 1 48:27

Occasionally, mostly it's group work now but I do work with individuals every now and then.

Speaker 3 48:32

When you do work with an individual, I would imagine that you are yeah, you're specifying the work to them, so you're clarifying intention with them. Yeah, yes.

Speaker 1 48:43

Is there intention that's important in that moment.

Speaker 3 48:46

Whereas the recorded material that you're putting out to the public in general is something that you're being often called to do or is just coming to you in some particular way that you want to share that has a particular purpose.

Speaker 1 49:01

Right, there's two categories, I guess. One is our recordings from workshops. So what you then have are the sound codes that came out of working with the group. And then sometimes Leathers will come to me and ask me to do a meditation. Sometimes I create a meditation, say, like, for the celestial sangha, I'll create something for that intentionality. So it varies.

Speaker 2 49:22

We spoke to him of hopes for this forthcoming paradigm shift, as it were, which may or may not already be underway in many respects. Sound healing itself has certainly become much more popularized, at least in its basic premise, for the last few years, at least decade or so. Where is it that you see the future of sound healing in terms of innovation, research opportunity?

Speaker 1 49:47

Well, if you look at sound healing in its broader context, I would say sound healing is really about vibration, and the vibration that we hear in the audible range is what we call sound healing. But there are other vibratory ranges that we don't hear that can still be used to create positive healing effects and so forth. I think we're at a place where the technology of sound healing and by technology I mean inner technology and outer technology the outer technologies of applying sound are increasing in the scientific world pretty rapidly. Ultrasound is an example of a vibratory use of sound vibration that we can't hear, but you can see it, you know a scope and there'll be more techniques, more instruments will be developed that are getting more and more subtle.

Speaker 1 50:36

The inner technology of sound, in my humble perception of this field, is that we're at a juxtaposition of a modern I would call it a miasma of our civilization, and then we also have the spiritual traditions that were recovering from the past in user-memorized tools in the present, conjoined with, hopefully, rational action and based that science can say, yeah, this part of it is real. What we can talk about, we can say is real. Ultimately, we can't talk about whatever it is the big it, because we can't quantify and measure it, but we can quantify and measure the effects. So what we can say as scientists, the scientists that are working in these areas something significant is happening here. Something significant is happening. Let's look at that deeper. So the inner technology as we this is happening for me.

Speaker 1 51:32

I would love to know if other people in your audience are experiencing this, but as I bring the wisdom as I understand it, that's very important through my field, or my understanding of these ancient traditions, and I use it to affect my own inner approach to sound consciousness energy, there's a creative interface between what I know scientifically and what the spiritual traditions are telling me, and I'm also seeing as I try to endeavor to integrate all this.

Speaker 1 52:00

I'm seeing errors in the spiritual traditions that are like just little pebbles. That could be problematic if you're at that subtle level of the energy field and if you're not at that subtle level, you're not even aware of it. But I'm finding that the spiritual traditions have little errors. Some of them are pretty big errors. So I think those who are working in this area of integrating modern science, neurology, psychology and the ancient traditions will have I think we will recover the past in a new way. That might be a good way to say it. We will recover the past spiritual knowledge in a new way, and it has to be different, because our world is different, but the essence remains the same.

Speaker 3 52:46

I think that's a great point you're bringing up there about.

Speaker 3 52:49

It's a very fragile and tender and tenuous situation to be going into these traditions that are thousands or even in some cases, beyond our historical understanding, right, the seeds of these being even potentially tens of thousands of years old and us just kind of cherry picking and jumping in and just kind of grabbing what excites us, or finding certain teachers, restrains or interpretations, and maybe not understanding the whole picture and possibly being subject to these hooks, these abnormalities or deformities that are subtle in there, that likely occurred because of misunderstanding then, or potentially just because of the nature of the distortion of all societies at all times in their interpretation of things.

Speaker 3 53:35

That just comes with its own filter. But speaking of this, though, because I do think that, like you, we are experiencing this movement and this potential renaissance of the requirement of retrieving the value and wisdom of the past and integrating it into a new future, what would you say are these like, maybe the key features, if we are to transition into this renaissance future? What do you think are the features of that, that rebirth of civilization or society where we move forward into a 2.0, 3.0, whatever it might be?

Speaker 1 54:07

Wow, that's a very complex question. My understanding of the seed point that created the error for us in this civilization goes back to Descartes, and Descartes was a philosopher, and as he was assessing, how could he tell if he existed or not? How could he actually know? And he came up with the formula. I think, therefore I am so the mentation, the ideation through the mental faculties, is what anchored his philosophy, and then it had an effect throughout all of Europe, and then we had the great enlightenment that came out of that, and the beauty of it was we became more precise.

Speaker 1 54:43

Science emerged, technology emerged, but also pollution emerged from the, you know, in the industrial revolution, and all types of stuff are going on, and as a culture now we are so centered on. All that matters is what's going on in our little mind, the little box mind. That's what's important. The ancient traditions say no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not where it's at, that's a small piece, but you're missing the big piece of the pie when you just stay with your mind or something bigger. So I think in some traditions I talked about the cosmic snake shedding its skin, and a cosmic snake is related, of course, to Kundalini, and then it's understood that a snake has to shed its skin every now and then, or it will die, it gets too large for its own skin and it has to shake it off to grow further, or it will die.

Speaker 1 55:38

So we are struggling with the aberrations, the misinformation, all the stuff that's going on, and it is a terrible sometimes and sometimes fascinatingly amusing to watch in ourselves. But it's a very intense experience. Whatever you know mood we're in and we're looking at it. But that transformation we either open up to the bigger aspects of ourselves or we don't. And how a person does that or not does that, that's their business. But collectively, as more and more of us shed our skins for whatever reason, the field effect of individuals affecting the field effects of those around them affecting the field effects of their country, the world, it's all interconnected. It may look like total chaos, and it is, but there's also a wisdom, there's a still point in chaos and I think we're at, we're moving toward that point and that's our hope. I think that's the great hope for us that we can actually shed our skin and be done with this bullshit that we have inherited from so many levels.

Speaker 2 56:40

Thank you, tom. Really inspirational ideas and concepts to be closing on there and it makes me think of well I am therefore, I think would have been an interesting avenue to have been pursued.

Speaker 1 56:55

Yes, that would have been. I would have a different outcome. Oh well, better luck next time.

Speaker 2 57:01

We thank you so much for your time and joining us today. We'd love to hear from you how anyone interested in connecting with you and your work might be able to do so, any relevant domains, etc.

Speaker 1 57:12

Well, if they go to the website wwwTomKinioncom, there's a plethora of information there. Most of the content's free. You can go to something called the listening section and hear sound meditations. Download them if you want. Listen to them all for free. I have scientific studies when I was from the days in acoustic brain research. There's a tab called acoustic brain research If you want to go and explore the science behind all of this, and there's articles and all types of stuff.

Speaker 2 57:38

Fantastic hub of content. I can test that and the meditation opportunities to provide those free of charge. Thank you for that as well. Much appreciated.

Speaker 1 57:47

You're welcome.

Speaker 3 57:49

So we just want to thank you so much for your time today. Your wisdom is very inspiring conversation. We know a lot of people benefit from this and we just really appreciate having the opportunity to speak with you, connect and have you on.

Speaker 1 58:01

Well, I do want to speak to that. Something like this is to me very refreshing, because my experience of the both of you is that you're coming from a very authentic space and so we're both. All three of us are revealing ourselves in authenticity, including our confusions, and that is a rich territory. So, in terms of field effects, it is an example of field effects. Your, your language, how you approach things, affects my field. I'm responding, then people watching this are having their own field effects. It's a very interesting show to watch, isn't it? And I mean the grand cosmic show, including yours, well, thank you very much for the opportunity.

Speaker 3 58:42

Thanks for listening to the episode. What really supports the podcast is providing a rating and review of the show on your preferred listening platform. This helps us get the message out to a wider audience. If the topics we discussed today appeal to you, do take a moment to subscribe. Lastly, we invite you to check out our website, fielddynamicshealingcom, to learn about our training programs, private session work and to see how we're setting the standard in contemporary energy healing. Many thanks and see you next time.